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A Kindle Fire Review For Those Who Plan To Void the Warranty

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the for-those-about-to-root dept.

Android 103

The mixed reviews so far available for the new Amazon Fire tablet mostly address the Fire in its intended role as a locked-down portal through which to buy and consume ready-made content from Amazon. New submitter terracode writes with a different kind of review, which "goes into depth on the Kindle Fire's hardware, and provides details on how to root and tweak the tablet." The article also provides a friendly chart comparing the hardware in the Fire to that of the Nook Color and the iPad 2.

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103 comments

Nook Color (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38114020)

Wouldn't the Nook Tablet be a more appropriate competitor?

Re:Nook Color (2)

Pollardito (781263) | more than 2 years ago | (#38114104)

I think the latest Nook Tablet news is that it has a secure boot loader, and reserves most of its built-in storage for Barnes & Noble content. An additional SD card will help with the latter, but the former seems like a deal breaker given that this article sounds like it's about jail breaking

Re:Nook Color (1)

level380 (2427256) | more than 2 years ago | (#38115208)

Its looking like side loading apps on the nook tablet is easy as, I would say rooting it isn't far behind! http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/17/2568172/nook-tablet-can-sideload-android-apps-no-root-required [theverge.com]

Re:Nook Color (1)

Pollardito (781263) | more than 2 years ago | (#38121028)

Rooting and side-loading aren't related to secure boot loaders (which only block custom ROMs). I'm seeing now that they eventually got past the efuse on the Motorola Droid though, so maybe they'll get past this one too.

Re:Nook Color (5, Informative)

nullchar (446050) | more than 2 years ago | (#38117118)

Yes, this review should have compared against the Nook Tablet.

Nook Tablet is also an A9 dual core 1GHz, it has twice the ram at 1GB than the Fire and twice the on-board storage at 16GB. They're both the OMAP4430 with the same graphics chip. If you're just looking at hardware, it appears the Nook Tablet wins:

(Same rows as the table in TFA. /. junk char filter wouldn't let me post the row header)

Nook Tablet
TI OMAP4430
ARM Cortex A9 (1 GHz dual core)
POWERVR SGX540 graphics
1 GB Ram
16 GB on-board storage
1024x600 screen res

Source: https://nookdeveloper.barnesandnoble.com/product/nook-tablet-specs.html [barnesandnoble.com]

Re:Nook Color (1)

terracode (1180249) | more than 2 years ago | (#38120536)

Yes, this review should have compared against the Nook Tablet.

Nook Tablet is also an A9 dual core 1GHz, it has twice the ram at 1GB than the Fire and twice the on-board storage at 16GB. They're both the OMAP4430 with the same graphics chip. If you're just looking at hardware, it appears the Nook Tablet wins:

(Same rows as the table in TFA. /. junk char filter wouldn't let me post the row header)

Nook Tablet TI OMAP4430 ARM Cortex A9 (1 GHz dual core) POWERVR SGX540 graphics 1 GB Ram 16 GB on-board storage 1024x600 screen res

Source: https://nookdeveloper.barnesandnoble.com/product/nook-tablet-specs.html [barnesandnoble.com]

Thank you! Review spec comparo chart has been updated to compare to Nook Color 2 and not original Nook Color.

Web hosting on Kindle Fire... (0, Offtopic)

ELCouz (1338259) | more than 2 years ago | (#38114046)

That must be why the site is slashdotted !

WTF: Why not compare the nook Tablet? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38114052)

This is fine, but it says that the nook Color is the Kindle Fire's closest competitor. The nook Tablet is now, and it has a helluva lot more horsepower than the Kindle Fire. (And a better looking body...) So it makes me wonder what kind of kool-aid this reviewer is drinking. Particularly since the nook is by far the most hack friendly device mass produced in years!

Re:WTF: Why not compare the nook Tablet? (2)

ysth (1368415) | more than 2 years ago | (#38114330)

And don't forget the Microsoft-patent-shakedown-free.

Re:WTF: Why not compare the nook Tablet? (2)

garyoa1 (2067072) | more than 2 years ago | (#38115280)

And the new blackberry tablet is just released at the same price as the fire. With 10 times the power and features. It's war I tell ya! http://www.buy.com/loc/blackberry-playbook/69184.html [buy.com]

Re:WTF: Why not compare the nook Tablet? (1)

tsadi (576706) | more than 2 years ago | (#38115286)

My WTF moment was the mailto link in the submitters name. I haven't used or even those in at least 6 years!

Re:WTF: Why not compare the nook Tablet? (5, Informative)

thegarbz (1787294) | more than 2 years ago | (#38115612)

Particularly since the nook is by far the most hack friendly device mass produced in years!

The Nook what? The Nook Color was. But the Tablet? Maybe you should actually go out and have a look at how hacker friendly the Nook Tablet really is. A quick search on the XDA Developers forum seem to think that the tablet is efuse locked and works with signed bootloaders only. That's about as hack friendly as Motorola's worst phone.

The Kindle on the other hand has nothing more than a token lock to prevent rooting and existing utilities actually simply worked without modification. No sight of signed bootloaders either. So if I had to bet a body part on which one will get Cyanogenmod 9 first, the smart money is on the Kindle Fire.

Re:WTF: Why not compare the nook Tablet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38118156)

A quick search on xda shows that Nook Tablet is rooted as well.

Re:WTF: Why not compare the nook Tablet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38118348)

Rooting is not the same as being able to flash a new firmware.

Re:WTF: Why not compare the nook Tablet? (1)

terracode (1180249) | more than 2 years ago | (#38120596)

This is fine, but it says that the nook Color is the Kindle Fire's closest competitor. The nook Tablet is now, and it has a helluva lot more horsepower than the Kindle Fire. (And a better looking body...) So it makes me wonder what kind of kool-aid this reviewer is drinking. Particularly since the nook is by far the most hack friendly device mass produced in years!

The original review was a prelim spec review prior to the Kindle Fire being released or Nook Color2 (Tablet) announced. The article was updated to being a review of the Kindle Fire, Specs and Tweaking after receipt of the unit. I updated the comparison spec chart to the Nook Tablet today after realizing I had forgotten to update it to the new Nook. This review is not a review of the Nook, but is intended to be a review of the Kindle Fire. I feel the Nook is also a great device with alot going for it just as I feel the Kindle Fire is a great device.

Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to root. (5, Informative)

Kenja (541830) | more than 2 years ago | (#38114054)

The whole point of the Fire is to use it as a content consumption device for Amazons services. It frankly, is not a great tablet otherwise as it lacks things such as a flash card slot. So long as I use my Fire to view Amazon content, it works great and the missing hardware isn't noticed. If I where to look for a low cost tablet to root and mess around with the Nook is leaps and bounds better and worth the extra 50$. But I just wanted an eReader and client for Amazons video services. So I went with the Fire and have little issues with it (the carousel is problematic so far as you can not control what gets placed in it).

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (4, Informative)

Microlith (54737) | more than 2 years ago | (#38114114)

If I where to look for a low cost tablet to root and mess around with the Nook is leaps and bounds better and worth the extra 50$

From the analysis of the Nook Tablet thus far, it's actually less capable than the Kindle due to the signed bootloader and checksummed kernel and ramdisk. As a result it's likely that the Kindle will see CM9 and ICS, while the Nook Tablet will be perpetually stuck on Gingerbread.

Unless something changes drastically on the Nook Tablet, B&N have done a complete 180 on the hackability of their Android-based devices this go around. Damn shame, but that's how dickish companies are these days.

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (2)

Kenja (541830) | more than 2 years ago | (#38114134)

Interesting. But without the cloud services the Fire is stuck with 8GB of non-expandable storage. Which combined with lack of blue-tooth, cameras, gps, etc means that its use is limited. Even once you get CM9 etc installed, lost of apps simply will not run because they are looking for hardware and drivers that dont exist on the device.

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (2)

Microlith (54737) | more than 2 years ago | (#38114144)

So in other words, neither device is optimal for the standard tablet use case. My interest in the NT stemmed from the NC, mostly as an OMAP4 hack target that was still usable as a portable device, alas I shall stick to working on my Nook Color.

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (4, Insightful)

Kenja (541830) | more than 2 years ago | (#38114174)

Well, the Nook has technical hurdles to overcome. That may just be a matter of waiting till someone cracks it. The Fire is easy to root, but I see no reason to do so. Look at it this way, what do you gain by rooting a Kindle Fire? You can already install third party APKs by checking the option in the system preferences and you can use the Android developer tools to side-load apps if you add the devices ID number to your INI file. Once rooted however you lose access to the Amazon cloud and video streaming services. So overall, it seems like it cripples the device more then it elevates it.

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (3, Interesting)

Microlith (54737) | more than 2 years ago | (#38114192)

Well, the Nook has technical hurdles to overcome. That may just be a matter of waiting till someone cracks it.

The security mechanism is the same as the one Motorola has employed on all of their OMAP based devices. At most, kexec may be available to try something, however you're still stuck bending over backwards and twisting yourself to get around an extremely punitive security system that won't hesitate to brick your system.

Of course, I don't look at these devices for how effectively they can try and stick their fingers in my wallet, but how effectively I can make them do what I want them to, which is one reason I ruled out the Kindle Fire as soon as I learned it had no SD card slot.

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (2)

Tacvek (948259) | more than 2 years ago | (#38117312)

One possibility though is that if B&N has made a properly first or second stage boot loader that does not check the signature for the next stage, then all we need to do is get our hands on it, and the device will be unlocked by the end of the day.

Otherwise kexec is the indeed the only option, but it is completely feasible. The system will load modified kernel modules, so we simply need to create a kexec module, and load it, then load a new kernel. Pretty simple, all things considered. The reason we do not do this on the the Motorola phones is that when we try the start-up sequence of the cellular modem driver ends up locking up the already initialized device, thus we phone capability. That would not be an issue on the Nook Tablet, so it is just a matter of time for some sufficiently motivated individual to do this.

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (5, Insightful)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 2 years ago | (#38114416)

You can already install third party APKs by checking the option in the system preferences and you can use the Android developer tools to side-load apps if you add the devices ID number to your INI file.

It's so easy! I'm sure everyone will be doing it!

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38114768)

Anyone capable of rooting would be capable of typing "adb install" at the command line.

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38115226)

Once rooted however you lose access to the Amazon cloud and video streaming services.

That's wrong. Rooting equals root access. Rooting leaves the Amazon ROM fully intact. Flashing is the dangerous action. Flashing to an AOSP-based ROM will erase the Amazon modifications. There are benefits to rooting the Fire. Root access allows you to install the Android browser and required system libraries. Root access allows you to flash customized Amazon ROMs. Root access allows you to do anything and lose nothing.

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (1)

jbohumil (517473) | more than 2 years ago | (#38116232)

Are you sure this is wrong? My rooted Fire no longer is able to stream from Amazon video.

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (5, Informative)

para_droid (92566) | more than 2 years ago | (#38115264)

That may just be a matter of waiting till someone cracks it.

The Nook Tablet has been rooted: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1354487 [xda-developers.com]

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38121504)

The question isn't whether it can be rooted. The question is whether you can reflash it with a different OS.

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (1)

antagonizt (613384) | more than 2 years ago | (#38120062)

Once rooted however you lose access to the Amazon cloud and video streaming services. So overall, it seems like it cripples the device more then it elevates it.

Just rename the "su" binary to something else and amazon video starts working again.

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (2)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 2 years ago | (#38115610)

Bingo! Which is why I wrote off hacked android devices as a tablet a while ago. I have already been down this road and ran into those bumps.

if you want a great functioning tablet get an already designed as a generic android tablet running ICS out of the box, a galaxy tab or Xoom. Yes you need to spend $400+ to get one that works great. problem is even after you buy a real tablet, you STILL need to hack it because samsung and motrola bastardize the OS. It seems it is impossible for a company to leave android pure and deliver it on a device.

There is no free lunch, contrary to what others say. the only chance at a free lunch is if someone cracks the nook completely so we can get a decent OS on it.

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (1)

realityimpaired (1668397) | more than 2 years ago | (#38115852)

You could get a Kobo Vox http://www.kobobooks.com/kobovox_tech [kobobooks.com] ... It's suggested retail price is $200, and it isn't an e-book reader running a limited/locked down Android, it's an Android tablet that comes with the Kobo app pre-installed. You get full un-fettered Android, including everything you'd expect from a more expensive Android-based tablet: the Android market, GMail, web browser, etc.. It's only a 7" display, and it's got an 800MHz processor, so that may be a bit anemic, but what do you expect from something that's being sold as an ebook reader? It's got the same processor and memory as a mid-range Android phone, and it should be fine for most use.

I won't be buying one because I don't feel like I need a tablet, and I'm quite happy with my Kobo Touch ebook reader, but if I was in the market for a tablet/ebook reader, this one would be top of my list. No GPS in it, but otherwise it has everything you'd expect an Android tablet to have.

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (1)

grnbrg (140964) | more than 2 years ago | (#38116422)

including everything you'd expect from a more expensive Android-based tablet: the Android market, GMail, web browser

The Vox is AOSP, and not certified by Google. Out of the box, you're limited to a small, relatively unknown app market with a limited subset of apps, and no Gmail, Talk, or other standard Google Android apps. On the other hand, there will almost certainly be a hack that adds this in shortly, if one does not exist already.

That said, it does look like a nice $200 tablet. Most people who complain about the lack of quality/speed/reliability in a converted Vox, Nook or Kindle are expecting Xoom performance from a $200 investment. A Civic is a nice car, but don't expect it to do everything a Lexus can.

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (1)

mattcsn (1592281) | more than 2 years ago | (#38116850)

The Vox's power management is awful as of the current firmware, v15. If you let the Vox handle power management, it often refuses to wake up wifi (if it wakes up at all) and you need to power cycle it to fix it. If you leave wifi on, the battery life goes to hell. I'm returning mine this afternoon.

If there's a cyanogenmod release with the market for it in the future, I might pick up a new one again just for CM. The Vox's Kobo app is the exact same one that can be downloaded through the google market, so I wouldn't be losing anything by going this route.

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (1)

MrMatto (2429900) | more than 2 years ago | (#38120012)

You don't need to hack a Xoom. It's pure Android.

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38121520)

Yes you need to spend $400+ to get one that works great. problem is even after you buy a real tablet, you STILL need to hack it because samsung and motrola bastardize the OS.

Xoom is "Google experience device" - it runs stock software, exactly how Google intended.

Actually, most Honeycomb tablets are close to stock - much closer than phones ever were. It seems that, when Google handed out Honeycomb licenses, the requirement to not go on a modding frenzy was one of the requirements.

Oh, and if you want a cheap Honeycomb tablet, the cheapest to date is Asus Transformer (the first one, not the upcoming Prime) - $380 on Amazon, and you can find it even cheaper if you look around. Xoom goes for slightly over $400 these days, but the display is not IPS. Galaxy Tab 10.1 is still around $600.

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38114442)

Damn shame, but that's how dickish companies are these days.

Complete shame, we expect them to subsidize a product and then allow us to root the devices to break the subsidy model. Taking it to the man, no one should be allow to make a cent in profit off of me!

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (1)

Microlith (54737) | more than 2 years ago | (#38114892)

Hey look, it's a stupid and invalid point. But that's why you're posting as an anonymous coward.

we expect them to subsidize a product

I sure don't. I expect them to charge a reasonable price, then GTFO once the transaction is completed. It isn't my problem if they subsidize the product, and even if they did and I bought it, I'd still complain if they crippled it. Just like everyone who has ever bought a Motorola handset that is now no longer under contract or was bought unlocked (i.e. Europe.)

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (1)

froggymana (1896008) | more than 2 years ago | (#38129466)

I sure don't. I expect them to charge a reasonable price, then GTFO once the transaction is completed. It isn't my problem if they subsidize the product, and even if they did and I bought it, I'd still complain if they crippled it. Just like everyone who has ever bought a Motorola handset that is now no longer under contract or was bought unlocked (i.e. Europe.)

Then the Amazon Fire is not you. There is still a market for it for it though.

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38114922)

So in your model, if someone buys a Nook Tablet but only uses it for e-mail and games, they are also stealing from B&N?

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38116160)

I love how all the geek sites talk about hacking. Vertical markets (walled gardens are the future). Most people (84.67%) do not want to hack, they want to USE. This is why Apple has so much fucking money. They made easy to use consumption devices, that gives people what they want.

What needs to happen is for someone to make a whitebox tablet that has all the cool shit geeks wants and is totally open for Android. Make it Wifi only (no 3G, 4G shit) since geeks are going to tether to their smartphones anyways, and this frees you from all the Carrier shit. Like a FrankenTablet (I just copyrighted that, jk) where you use all the parts that currently exist and they just bring them together in a form factor. Online only, not sold in stores. The site could have a suggestion board for a somewhat crowdsourced design. Start with a 1000 unit run, then build to order. It might cost a little more, but then you will have the ability to get what you want and geek out all over it.

Sounds like a business plan for some VC with balls to hop on.

Legal, I hereby release this idea to anyone who wants to use it. Boilerplate, Boilerplate.

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (1)

Pneathery (1949818) | more than 2 years ago | (#38117628)

It's called Archos. They've been doing it longer then Apple. Check out the Archos 80G9. Wifi only (there is a dongle you can buy for $49, and put ANY dim card in, or use the dongle port as a fully functioning USB port) it has hdmi out, plays FLAC files out of the box, and cah be had with up to a 250gb hard drive. Also has an app for your android cell phone to use as a remote control when it is plugged into the tv via hdmi. Runs stock android, with Archos's media player (that is a plus). It starts at $269 on Amazon.

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38117814)

Look at how fast Archos abandons their products. I have a Archos tablest stuck at Android v1.6 and Archos stopped supporting it less than a year after I bought it. It is so broken it doesn't even come with a working email client. It uses the OMAPx security and nobody has broken it.

Archos did supply a unsupported SDK but, after over a year, nobody has put a working AOSP on it. I don't think all the secret sauce is in the SDK.

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (1)

Fnord666 (889225) | more than 2 years ago | (#38117184)

From the analysis of the Nook Tablet thus far, it's actually less capable than the Kindle due to the signed bootloader and checksummed kernel and ramdisk. As a result it's likely that the Kindle will see CM9 and ICS, while the Nook Tablet will be perpetually stuck on Gingerbread.

I'm wondering if the parent was referring to the nook color which has a great (IMHO) hacking community behind it.

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38126132)

why in the hell would someone buy an android device with a signed bootloader ansd/or checksummed kernel ? this is seriously beyond me , well at least it's not putting money in apples chest , opensource software on a locked hardware ........ if you really love android you should boycott any manuf that ships locked boot loaders

Re:Kindle Fire is one device I see no reason to ro (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38122440)

Plus, the Fire already allows loading of third party apps, so that's even less reason to root. I run the nook app, the dolphin browser, etc.

It's kinda scary (1, Troll)

snikulin (889460) | more than 2 years ago | (#38114090)

that in almost 2 years the whole industry can't catch-up with Apple.
It was OK back then but two years without any bright, no-rooting-required competitor?
The technology, software and know-how is there but the whole *package* has been delivered by Apple only so far.
Google probably does disservice to its platform by targeting it to telcos and not to consumers.

Re:It's kinda scary (1)

PCM2 (4486) | more than 2 years ago | (#38114202)

There are plenty of competitors [chinatabletspcs.com] and even some that have superior specs [chinatabletspcs.com] to either of the ones being discussed here. The key is price. Both Amazon and B&N are expecting you to buy content to stock your device, and that's how they plan to make up for the deep discounts on the hardware.

Re:It's kinda scary (3, Insightful)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 2 years ago | (#38114366)

Pardon me if I consider a site selling

Teclast P76Ti 7 Inch Android 2.3 Tablet PC Capacitive TFT Touch Screen Allwinner Many Core A10 1.5GHz 512MB 2160P Decoding MVC-3D Video Playing Flash10.3 Wifi

As not quite being competitive with iPads. Even if it is only $115 dollars. "Allwinner Many Core"? Please.

Re:It's kinda scary (1)

PCM2 (4486) | more than 2 years ago | (#38114470)

Ahh, I kinda took his request for "no rooting required" as meaning he didn't want to jump through hoops to install an OS on it. I guess he just wants someone else to offer a vertically-integrated, locked-down product like Apple's. (Why?)

Re:It's kinda scary (4, Informative)

adolf (21054) | more than 2 years ago | (#38114490)

As long as "many" is greater than "few," but no more than 2, and "few" is equal to 1, then "many core" makes perfect sense: It means exactly 2.

It's just Chinglish.

To translate: "7 inch Android 2.3 tablet with capacitive TFT touch screen, multiple A10 cores (which are fantastic!) at 1.5GHz, 512MB of RAM, and 2160p decoding of 3D video. Also includes Flash 10.3 and Wifi."

Is it really so hard?

I've bought wire from Wonderful Cable before, and motherboards from Diamond Flower Inc, and all were fine products. If someone offered me a chance to get a great deal on widgets from Super Happy Flower Star in Shanghai, I'd give it a look.

I'd also be pleased to buy a tablet from a company offering "Allwinner Many Core" CPUs, if it makes any sense at all and the price were right.

*shrug*

Not everyone, believe it or not, is able to produce useful English marketing text.

Re:It's kinda scary (5, Interesting)

nadaou (535365) | more than 2 years ago | (#38114986)

> Not everyone, believe it or not, is able to produce useful English marketing text.

yeah, but it makes you question their overall commitment to quality, and the level of frustration you might face if you need to interact with them for support one day.

my old rule of thumb was: buy a no-name product from a known-good-name company, or buy a known-good-name product from a no-name company. No-name product from a no-name company is just asking for trouble, and a Good-name product from a Good-name company is fine if you don't mind paying more than you probably had to.

Re:It's kinda scary (1)

adolf (21054) | more than 2 years ago | (#38121464)

No, actually: It doesn't make me question their overall commitment to quality. I understand that it takes multiple people working in multiple departments to design and sell such a device. The marketer's grasp of English says nothing about the engineer's grasp of circuitry.

And given the level of support you get from about company on almost any product in this price range, I don't really see how it could get much worse.

I've been burned more times on smoothly-marketed devices which turned out to be absolute crap, than on poorly-marketed devices which actually work.

YMMV, but I've been better off ever since I started completely disregarding everything that sounds like salesman-speak and paying attention to facts instead.

Re:It's kinda scary (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38114220)

yeah because ipad is so open and customizable. it's so easy and free to develop software for..

Re:It's kinda scary (0)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 2 years ago | (#38114250)

Microsoft used to think it had an insurmountable lock. Apple is just a company. It is not a god. It does not have a permanent guarantee on anything. I'm not sure whether your post comes from arrogance, or from insecurity.

Re:It's kinda scary (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 2 years ago | (#38115624)

The fanbois are out in numbers this morning. I see they modded you to hell for posting the truth.

I would LOVE to see a real competitor for the ipad from someone. and it's not hard to reach. give us decent equilivant hardware, PURE android, and a $350-$400 pricepoint. Hell make it better hardware, titanium case, thicker gorilla glass that will not break if dropped, and get me a real 10+hour on and running at full blast on both cores runtime and I'm all over it like stink on poo. even at a $550.00 price point.

For some reason these companies are refusing to do it, they are afraid of competing with apple. They want to release crappy specs with a bastardized OS for around the price, or fancy e-readers for around $200.00

Re:It's kinda scary (0)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 2 years ago | (#38115700)

Right. Since only fanbois can't see the truth in turning 'rooting possible' into 'rooting required', 'real competition' into 'vastly superior product with unrealistic specs at a lower price point', etc. Sorry, but I somehow don't believe you when you claim you want a 'real competitor' and then list '10+hour on and running at full blast on both cores runtime' as one of the requirements. It's not like Apple can come close to that.

So, you're a liar and wants another liar to be modded up for posting 'the truth'. Your mother must be so proud of you.

Re:It's kinda scary (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 2 years ago | (#38115764)

Sorry you cant read.. it's something I WOULD PAY FOR...

troll.

Re:It's kinda scary (1)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 2 years ago | (#38116192)

That's hardly relevant to your point, dipshit.

Re:It's kinda scary (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 2 years ago | (#38120556)

Yeah, because a brainless fuckwad knows what I want more than me... How exactly did you graduate 3rd grade? Let me guess.. public skool.

good thing you will never get past drive through order taker at work.

Re:It's kinda scary (1)

MrMatto (2429900) | more than 2 years ago | (#38120034)

They make a tablet exactly as you describe. It's called the wifi Xoom. Yes, I have one. I paid $350 on ebay for it.

FAGORZ (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38114116)

Re:FAGORZ (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38114182)

Is that you, hairyfeet?

For the money, it's a no-brainer (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38114212)

The Kindle Fire is about 90% of what I'd want an iPad for at about 1/3rd the price. That's a no-brainer. It's a very capable tablet as long as you know what you are getting and don't have unrealistic (i.e. on par with the iPad) expectations. There are a couple of UI/usability things that hopefully will be addressed in an update... but even that not withstanding it is a very impressive device.

Nice, but... (5, Funny)

certain death (947081) | more than 2 years ago | (#38114226)

Yes, but will it run Windows 3.1 or NT 4.0?

Re:Nice, but... (4, Insightful)

Jethro (14165) | more than 2 years ago | (#38114262)

You don't need an electronic device to hit yourself over the head with a hammer.

Re:Nice, but... (0)

certain death (947081) | more than 2 years ago | (#38114418)

Ooow!! Hey, that hurt!

Re:Nice, but... (3, Informative)

narcc (412956) | more than 2 years ago | (#38114654)

Oddly enough, the Blackberry PlayBook will, in fact, run windows 3.1 [theverge.com]

Now you can get your "ski free" and "rodent's revenge" fix on the go!

Re:Nice, but... (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#38114736)

I remember escaping the bear a few times. Nothing happens afterwards though.

Re:Nice, but... (1)

tzot (834456) | more than 2 years ago | (#38115268)

> I remember escaping the bear a few times. Nothing happens afterwards though.

Was it a bear or a yeti?

Re:Nice, but... (2)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#38115322)

I asked wikipedia, which says it's a yeti. I don't know on what it bases that claim though - due to the low-resolution graphics of the era, the sprite itsself is ambiguous.

Re:Nice, but... (1)

Scoth (879800) | more than 2 years ago | (#38127220)

The author himself calls it an "Abominable Snow Monster", as seen here [ihoc.net] . I guess that's more a yeti than bear. Possibly NSFW icon on the page? :)

Re:Nice, but... (1)

Atmchicago (555403) | more than 2 years ago | (#38118090)

All you had to do was to set course on a certain diagonal, and you could escape it indefinitely.

Re:Nice, but... (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38121526)

Pretty much any Android device today (even 2.x phones) will run Windows 3.1, since it has a port of DOSBox in the Market.

Bah... (0)

RLU486983 (1792220) | more than 2 years ago | (#38114438)

typically biased essay, nothing to see here.

Frost Pi/st (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38114572)

we a7l knoww,

The real question: (4, Interesting)

pecosdave (536896) | more than 2 years ago | (#38114824)

Will the Nook tablet run the Kindle app?

What if you hack it?

Re:The real question: (1)

PraiseBob (1923958) | more than 2 years ago | (#38120296)

Well, I know the answer to the reverse. The kindle fire will run the nook app, it just isn't part of their default app library.

Re:The real question: (1)

pecosdave (536896) | more than 2 years ago | (#38120640)

I've got an Amazon account and a Kindle Keyboard, considering the Nook has better specs I would rather get it than the Kindle Fire. Really, it doesn't matter which I get, if I get one I want a tablet, not an e-reader out of the deal. I don't like doing large amounts of reading on an LCD, that's why I have my e-ink Kindle to begin with. If however I decided I wanted an online movie/music repository I would just stick with Amazon for simplicity sakes. On that note I buy and rip CD's/DVD's so it's almost moot.

Thanks for the info though, it's a step in the right direction toward "nullifying the argument".

Re:The real question: (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38121532)

It has been rooted. When you root it, it means that you can install any APK on it. This would include the Kindle app.

I don't know if you can sideload APKs on a non-rooted Nook Tablet. Probably not.

Is it still 1993? (5, Funny)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 2 years ago | (#38115100)

<table width="1025" height="338" border="0">

Yeah, that works fine on my netbook. Fuckbrains!

Re:Is it still 1993? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38115630)

It's ok the site has now been slashdotted.

Voiding the Warranty? (3)

izomiac (815208) | more than 2 years ago | (#38115212)

It's interesting how people so willingly give up their rights based on hearsay. The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act states that a manufacturer cannot refuse to honor a warranty because a non-OEM part was used or a modification was made, unless they can prove that said part/modification caused the equipment failure in question. If you brick your device by mucking around in /system after rooting it, then you're out of luck. If the battery stops holding a charge, then rooting had nothing to do with it, so it's covered under warranty. Obviously you might not have much luck explaining this legal concept to a support drone, but realistically they won't notice it's rooted in the first place.

Re:Voiding the Warranty? (1)

ThatsMyNick (2004126) | more than 2 years ago | (#38115434)

EULA

Re:Voiding the Warranty? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38115518)

EULA LAW

Re:Voiding the Warranty? (2)

izomiac (815208) | more than 2 years ago | (#38119472)

Aside from having a sketchy history regarding enforcability, EULAs only apply to software. The warranty applies to the physical item sold. Plus, state (perhaps federal) anti-lemon laws ensure that if they don't provide a warranty then they're still responsible for fixing defects and such. Why do you think every el-cheapo manufacturer offers one? (Hint: it's not to give you more rights.)

Nook Color? Why? (5, Insightful)

Hallow (2706) | more than 2 years ago | (#38115284)

I wonder why the comparison was made against the nook color, and not the nook tablet? The tablet is more of a direct competitor. $50 more for the nook tablet gets you the same cpu as the fire, 2x the ram (1GB), 2x the internal storage (16GB), support for up to an additional 32GB via external storage, a less reflective display, and a microphone.

You can even run the amazon app store, kindle app, and amazon instant video player app on the nook tablet. Both the Nook Tablet and the Fire have been rooted, and both have been reported to be able to access the Android Market.

Re:Nook Color? Why? (1)

thegarbz (1787294) | more than 2 years ago | (#38115616)

Because the article is about what it's like hacked and you can't hack the Nook Tablet? [xda-developers.com]

Re:Nook Color? Why? (1)

boilednut (1245008) | more than 2 years ago | (#38115768)

The claim of 16GB of internal storage for the Nook Tablet is disingenuous: 15GB of it can only be used for B&N content -- which is, currently, just books and magazines. Since the Nook Tablet is nearly unhackable, this restriction will be very difficult to circumvent.

Frankly, without a camera (1)

Shivetya (243324) | more than 2 years ago | (#38115986)

I don't see either as being all that useful.

Load them up with a 5mp, preferably 8mp or higher camera and let people have fun. The problem with the iPad's camera is that its too low resolution and the form factor makes it inconvenient. These two lesser tablets are only for consumption of a limited media but the Fire has the right size for ease of use (you can slip into the pocket of dress pants easily, if not every coat known to man). Yet what they would be good at is something they don't do, take and show pictures. Yes I know phones can do that but not everyone wants to be stuck with the plans required to use them

Kobo Vox might be a better third, not the iPad (2)

bnyrbl (1014257) | more than 2 years ago | (#38115560)

I think it would be more fair to compare the Fire to the Nook and Kobo Vox. I recently purchased the Vox, and spec-wise it's very similar to the Nook, similar dimensions, bright screen, 8GB internal storage but an SD slot to expand up to 32GB for a total of 40. It doesn't so far allow you access to the Android Market, but it's similar enough to the Nook that there should be a cyanogenmod port at some point.

My feeling about the Vox, and probably the others as the hardware is similarly spec'd, is not a great tablet, but perfect for consuming most media types. Even at 800MHz, it "can" play video at 720p with minimal stuttering, and the battery life is good if you mind it properly. The screen is a bit laggy, and the touch-sensitivity isn't stellar, but I just got it as a way to get familiar with Android, and if I brick it, all the e-readers at this price point are around $200 so no great loss.

The iPad2 is going to obviously kill all three of the others in most respects. But if I spent $500+ on a tablet, and it didn't do any ONE thing well, I'd be a little disappointed. At $200, if it does ANYTHING well, .. I just saved $300 or more.

It's fun to play around with. All the $500-ish tablets seem a lot like buying PCs back in the day, when 486s were the latest and greatest. So, I bought a 386 to familiarize myself with the OS, and won't spend $500 or more, until maybe next generation, more powerful, etc.

If you want a neat toy, any of the three would probably suffice, and similarly suck with the same pain points. The only real difference between them is storage, maybe screen quality, and ease of modding/loading the apps you want. I have gotten my corp e-mail working on it using Touchdown, VMware View client was decent (for very occasional emergency desktop access) and caused some head-scratching showing people a Windows desktop running on a droid-based e-reader. Boxee remote works fine, and I watched about an hour of "The Art of Flight" in 720p on a plane last week, and it only took the battery down 10%.

I'd say all three (Nook, Fire, Vox) are pretty much toys, but cool toys. I like the Vox for the screen brightness and expandable storage.

I rooted my Kindle Fire a few days ago (3, Interesting)

AtariDatacenter (31657) | more than 2 years ago | (#38116050)

The instructions were brand new and horribly incomplete at the time, but it was fun to hunt down all of the pieces to the puzzle on an environment I was completely unfamilar with. I was mostly interested in learning more about the Android platform, and also to enable Google's Android Marketplace and other Google apps.

I unrooted the Fire (so that Amazon Video on Demand would continue to work), and used the Marketplace to download a better video player app (MX Video Player) and a number of decent games. I didn't go with the Dolphin browser or the GO Launcher for my defaults. (Not that I'm excited about Amazon's launcher.) So basically, I have what acts like a stock Kindle Fire, except I've got Android Marketplace access. I think that combination makes this a winning device. I'll still purchase from Amazon when it makes sense, but I'll go to Google for selection.

The only significant snag I've seen so far is that the pop-up menu bar onto the Kindle Fire slightly confuses apps by a number of pixels about screen size or placement. Some apps will chop off the top of their app's display. Of course, others will use the bottom of the screen for their own menu bar, leaving you with scant pixels (in landscape mode) to hit their buttons. That, and a few apps like the VLC Direct player seems to get me into situations which lock my Kindle from time to time, so I mostly don't use it.

At least when I download Marketplace apps, I can delete applications now and now worry about them haunting my 'cloud applications' screen forever. If I download Angry Birds Free, and then pay for Angry Birds (and remove the free version), do I really need to see two different Angry Birds icons on my device forever, Amazon? Well, I asked, and you apologized that I couldn't delete it. You hinted that you may allow this in the future, and you gave me a $5 credit for my inconvenience. You're not so bad.

Anyhow, rooting and installing the Amazon Marketplace is a little bit of a bumpy road, but it seems to be totally worth it.

Silk is my biggest disappointment. (1)

slashkitty (21637) | more than 2 years ago | (#38116716)

Does anyone know a way to deactivate Silk? Besides be slow, and the privacy issue with all your communication going through amazon, it also breaks many things. IP Location, File Uploads and internal Networks are all broken with Silk. Not only that, but I've seen it choke on even basic web pages. I just want it turned off.

Re:Silk is my biggest disappointment. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38117624)

Should be in the settings.

Re:Silk is my biggest disappointment. (2)

moonka (889094) | more than 2 years ago | (#38118780)

Turn off the checkbox setting "Accelerate Web Pages" (or something similar, I don't have mine in front of me) in the browser settings.

Just get a real android tablet (2, Informative)

walterbyrd (182728) | more than 2 years ago | (#38117520)

With tablets like the Vizio 8" and the Lenovo Ideapad A1 selling for under $200; why bother with restricted, proprietary, non-sense?

Tablets can read any format without hacking, and have a plethora of other features such as cameras, bluetooth, microSD slots, and GPS.

If you want eInk, get an eReader, but don't bother with these LED eReaders, just use your phone, or get a real tablet.

Ada, Legend of a Healer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38118340)

Best book I've read on Kindle so far is Ada, Legend of a Healer. I'm looking forward to see how the cover and inside graphics look on the Fire.

http://www.adaslegend.com/ [adaslegend.com]

Appears slashdotted... (1)

Qubit (100461) | more than 2 years ago | (#38118812)

Here's the coral cache link [nyud.net] (assuming I can get the page to load...)

"Mixed Reviews" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38121752)

The only "mixed reviews" I have seen of the Fire have been penned by Apple fanbois desperate to kill off the competition. Actually for the price the Fire is good value and reviewers should be saying this. Instead they seem obsessed with comparing it with an over priced Apple 2 which is nearly three times the price. It is like comparing a mini with a jag. The fact that most reviewers do not provide decent reviews show how Apple far has penetrated the media industry. At the moment any product which appears in the press for review that counters Apple will receive a mixed review.
This will continue until readers complain and there are a few high profile sackings of "journalists" who sacrifice their credibility for a hardware ideology.

Can someone explain... (1)

Viewsonic (584922) | more than 2 years ago | (#38125976)

The "app store" shenanigans? Why do you want the "Android Market" over the "Amazon App Store" or the other way around? Does one only carry stuff like "Angry Birds" and the other doesn't? Is the selection that much better on one side vs the other?

How did we even get here? Why not just let people click on links from a software developers web site like we do on our PCs today? Centralization is fantastic for some things, but as iTunes has shown, great for music but no so great for applications. I don't know anyone who actually uses iTunes to browse apps. It's either word of mouth or nothing. Usually nothing.

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