Lying Is More Common When We Email 123
An anonymous reader writes "A new study by University of Massachusetts Amherst researchers finds that using computers for instant messaging and e-mail increases lying compared to face-to-face conversations, and that e-mail messages are most likely to contain lies. At its heart, the difference is about deindividualization, where as people grow psychologically and physically further from the person they're communicating with, the likelihood of lying goes up."
No way buddy. (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:No way buddy. (Score:4, Insightful)
In fact, this statement is a lie.
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This previous statement here, was true...
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Was this the lie, or the previous one, I am getting confused...
Re:No way buddy. (Score:5, Interesting)
Yeah, by that logic, a digitally signed and encrypted email would be the epitome of deception.
So much for using email to leave a paper trail.
I kinda expect people to prevaricate more when talking face-to-face, because then they can rely on other powers of persuasion and intimidation and just plain acting to back their delusions. At least if they lie in email, I can call them out on it.
But whatever.
Re:No way buddy. (Score:5, Insightful)
Unfortunately, AC posts are also where you find the trashy, hateful, racist sludge as well.
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This correlation is perhaps not a coincidence?
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Which are honest, dissenting opinions.
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No shit. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:No shit. (Score:5, Funny)
Your punctuation errors are "give aways".
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Shouldn't that be period then close quote?
In the UK we tend to put the quoted phrase in quotation marks and the punctuation outside, so I would guess that GP is not American.
Re:No shit. (Score:5, Insightful)
It's also easier to "lie" when you can carefully construct the "truth" which is much easier when writing it out vs doing it to someones face.
Re:No shit. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:No shit. (Score:4, Insightful)
I've never considered myself good at lying so I do tend to steer away from it, but people can get conflicting information from me anyway.
Someone asks me a question face to face and they want a simple answer for a complex problem I'll generalize an answer that might be technically correct, while in email I can sit there and lay out all points of the issue and put out a much better answer that might conflict with the shorter answer I gave earlier.
Which one is the lie?
Re:No shit. (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem is that the people who think they're good liars are lying to themselves. So when called out on a lie, they don't understand how YOU can DARE have the UNMITIGATED GALL to imply that they're lying - even when you catch them red-handed!
They know they're lying, but THE FORCE (of of being able to ignore cognitive dissonance) IS STRONG with them.
And of course, they're so used to lying that they expect everyone else to.
Re:So when called out on a lie (Score:2)
Actually, the Force of Ad Hominem is strong with those types too. "I know you know I know you know" you are lying, but they're fast at an "Animalistic" response and it works in Media formats. "You couldn't defend the personal attack, therefore your credibility is down, therefore I must be right."
It's the whole Jocks vs Nerds thing from high school.
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It's easier to do lots of things when it's somewhat impersonal. If people acted in real life the way they do online, well, lots more people would likely have broken noses. :-P
The perception of anonymity can cause otherwise normal people to devolve into complete arseholes.
Re:No shit. (Score:5, Funny)
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I think it's that those things make you a "Greater Fuckwad".
The A-hole is greater than the sum of its parts. ;-)
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That's Johnathan Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory. "Normal Person + Anonymity + Audience = Total Fuckwad." I don't remember what the Lesser Internet Fuckwad Theory is, it's been years since I took Intro to Internetrics.
While the GIF is well supported by experience, the LIF is a fallacy.
There are no lesser fuckwards on the internet.
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Haven't we already learned this from such "discussion mediums" as the Slashdot comment section? Its easier to lie when you don't have to cover your body language, quivers in voice or other "give aways".
Is the only reason you tell the truth because you fear your "tells" show through?
The Slashdot comment section also has no personal connection with the other party if there is any other party represented as many posts are not directed to an individual. An anonymous community also has no personal investment in being caught in a lie, as does a lie on a one-to-one basis.
Email, IMs, and other communications with others known to you does contain personal investment for being caught in a lie.
Really? (Score:5, Funny)
I was just getting out of bed after a 9 hour orgy with my harem. I showed them this story on my iPad 4 and they think it's all BS.
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I was just getting out of bed after a 9 hour orgy with my harem. I showed them this story on my iPad 4 and they think it's all BS.
Haha, Ipad 4? man you gotta upgrade, it's getting old :p... the new quantic chip since ipad 27 makes things much smoother... plus you're missing out on the 3D display, it sucks :p
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Re:Really? (Score:4, Informative)
You must be new to the orgy thing, I didn't leave my last orgy for 72 hours, and that was just a shower break to maintain hygiene. And "bed", at an orgy? That's just for nipple sushi.
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If you'd said you were in Islamabad, that'd be funnier.
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*Ahem*
I am about to explain the joke:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57328344-71/pakistan-bans-rude-text-messages/ [cnet.com]
In comments on sites too. (Score:1)
At least, thats what my girlfriend says.
people lie? (Score:5, Funny)
is it true, do people lie? Over email? To other people?
we need to look into this, it's going to ruin the economy, especially if these liars get into politics and big business!
They obviously do not work in a regulated industry (Score:5, Insightful)
When we need to lie, we pick up the phone. Emails are logged and archived.
I'm mostly kidding. I'm in IT. I do not need to lie. The sales staff on the other hand seems to make a living over promising things to clients.
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People learn quickly around me not do to that. I *KEEP* my emails... I *WILL* bring them back up...
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IT is not somehow morally superior to anything else, people lie there as well as in anything else.
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You're right. I never meant to imply any sort of moral superiority. I was just taking the opportunity to poke fun at sales people, who seem to be paid to lie for a living.
Re:They obviously do not work in a regulated indus (Score:5, Interesting)
Also, do not try this with the wife. "But honey, I have email proof!" only makes it worse.
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Re:They obviously do not work in a regulated indus (Score:4, Interesting)
That is a good point. I often use that technique not to deal with liars, but to CYA.
"Just to confirm, you told me that you understand everything I told you, but you don't want to deal with it right now and think it can wait until later. I'm okay with that. Just don't come crying to me when the systems are down because you didn't take me seriously."
All it takes is getting bit in the ass once to turn into an ass covering twit. I hate to be that guy, but I hate it even more to get caught holding the bag because someone above me decided that what I told them was important, really wasn't important.
Re:They obviously do not work in a regulated indus (Score:4)
In my experience, this does a good job of clearing up over-the-phone misunderstandings. But it does little to deter liars, who will ignore the email and simply claim later (if called out on their lie) that they hadn't read your call minutes, and this wasn't what they intended to say. "Those were your words, not mine."
Agreed with GP, a lie told by email is written record. A lie told by phone or in person can be refuted. Why would people prefer to leave a paper trail? Maybe it is just for fibs or other inconsequential lies.
Also I've had similar experience as GP with our sales force. Those guys will drop a lie like it's going out of style, any time they perceive it might work out in their favor. "I did XYZ yesterday on Customer ABC, but there's no record in the system of that today, and this caused me to miss my numbers." "No, in fact, not only did nobody even bring that customer record up, you weren't even signed into the system yesterday." I don't get how the level of dishonesty they demonstrate on a regular basis goes unpunished. I sincerely doubt I'd still have a job if I had the same standard of honesty.
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And then get either fired, sued, or even jailed for illegal wiretapping.
The fact that you recorded the conversation in the first place can get YOU in hot water more than the person you burn lying, and you may well be sent packing yourself before you can bust them.
In Washington state for example, recording a private conversation without consent is a gross misdemeanor.
See:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.73.030 [wa.gov]
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.73.080 [wa.gov]
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Or just don't marry habitual liars.
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Indeed
I've often found that telling the truth and actually being believed are two entirely different things.
I've had quite a few times where some jackass doesn't believe me simply because his scumbag chums are the ones lying and they take their word over mine. Even when I offered rock solid proof.
Also cases where the jackass in question simply just wants to hate my guts and isn't going to be deterred by inconvenient facts.
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I think the same of people who prefer to talk on the phone. Email keeps a trail of evidence. Email keeps people honest in business. Phones are for off-the-record communication, now.
When people call me in response to an email, I frequently think that they just don't know how to form coherent sentences and want to put the responsibility of communication fully on me instead of them explaining something on the record.
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Personally, I like to have written confirmation of instructions to minimise confusion and to have something to point at if things get off the rails. But sometimes you will get an email and have to ring the sender just to short circuit a conversation that is spiralling out of control. Communication is a two-way street, and sometimes it is much easier and faster to clarify verbally than to keep ping-ponging emails back and forth when it's obvious you are talking at cross purposes.
The trick is to write a follo
Of course... (Score:1)
Of course... it easy to get away lying via e-mail. The terrible actors of the world needn't know that their facial expressions or eye directions won't reveal their lie.
I never lie though- find it counterproductive. When you've got 18inches who needs to lie?
Re:Of course... (Score:5, Funny)
True that. Pizza soothes all. It probably even soothes the shame brought about by your tiny penis.
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Yeah I'm doubting the "depersonalization" claim in the OP given that email makes it possible to proofread your lies. I'd think that would be enough to confound any effort to blame it on a psychological factor.
Uncomfortable truths, more common by anonymous? (Score:3)
Uncomfortable and inconvenient truths, more common by anonymous?
Some webpages promote anonymous posts, as they tend to get better discussions. Whistleblowers!
e-mail is normally attached to your name, so lying is better than telling the truth
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This is why the belief that anonymous posting causes trolling is stupid. Facebook commentwalls clearly proved that people can be dumb jerks with their full names as well. The cause is more likely that you don't see the other person face to face, it's much more impersonal. It's easier to hurt someone you never met.
It's the opposite for me. (Score:1)
I lie much more in face to face conversations, like when I'm in a social situation such as my work, as I am obligated to talk to every idiot that shows up, and prefer not to let them know that I want to avoid them.
With e-mails however, I am much more selective who I talk to, usually I only talk to people I want to talk to and therefore I'm more often sincere in my e-mails.
how do they determine people are lying (Score:3)
article says they determine it by analysing conversations but it does not tell much. If it is the experimenter's chat logs then he has a bias and he could subconsciously lie more if that is his hypothesis. If it is other lying then how is it determined that they are lying? also, easier to know exact details of conversation if it is written (unless it is recorded word for word).
imho the study as it is presented does not say much... though there is nothing wrong with the hypothesis that people would lie more because it is tougher to come up with a lie live. That said, we all learn to lie very quickly... and most become quite good at it to a point it's not anymore really an issue to lie live for most.
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They lied about the results. You should have realised that by now.
I'm not surprised... (Score:3)
They did a study not long ago demonstrating that anonymity encourages anti-social behavior, which also wasn't surprising.
Besides, a large component of lying (in my 'based on nothing but my own experiences' opinion) seems to be the odds of getting caught in said lie. When you're talking to someone face to face, there's a lot of physical clues that aren't present in an email, thus encouraging a person to lie.
Christopher Walken said it best, though. [youtube.com] I admit that may not have as much to do with the topic at hand, I just fucking love that scene...
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They did a study not long ago demonstrating that anonymity encourages anti-social behavior, which also wasn't surprising.
Funny thing about that though (if we're talking about the same study), the researcher faked all his data, and has now admitted to faking at least 30 studies. Talk about irony...
I knew it (Score:3)
All those emails about Global Warming... see?
That seems counter intuitive (Score:1)
Why would anyone be more inclined to lie when it will be documented? You lie when you have plausible deniability, or am I putting to much thought into this?
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Why would anyone be more inclined to lie when it will be documented? You lie when you have plausible deniability, or am I putting to much thought into this?
You're not putting too much thought into it, you're failing to take into account the "delusion of grandeur" common with narcissistic and sociopathic personality disorders. A couple of year ago I had the thoroughly weird experience of having someone telling bald-faced lies about me lying, when the entire chain of correspondence was in writing and any interested party could easily verify that I had never made any such claim as was attributed to me. Not email by the way, written letters, reviewed by attorneys.
Hard to believe (Score:5, Insightful)
Either the research is flawed, or the people they studied are going to fail miserably in the "real world".
I find myself stretching the truth, or dodging accurate answers, when speaking in person far more often than I do in text. With text there is a document recorded for all time which can be referenced at any time. If it's not correct it's going to destroy you. If you say something untrue it's possible to wiggle out by claiming you were misunderstood or misheard.
Typically there is more time to build accurate and honest replies in text than there is in verbal communication. When you're speaking with someone they expect the reply RIGHT THEN, so you make some shit up to cover your ass. If you have more time you can formulate a true(er) response, or build truth prior to making your reply.
Spoken:
"Hey babe, did you take out the trash?"
"Uh, yep."
The hell you did. And now you have to get the trash out before she finds out.
Text:
"Hey babe, did you take out the trash?"
Take out the trash.
"Yep. At the curb."
No deceit. Just delay of truth due to available features of the means of communication.
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Spoken:
"Hey babe, did you take out the trash?"
"Uh, yep."
The hell you did. And now you have to get the trash out before she finds out.
See, I must be one of those people who knows that it's probably better to answer the spoken question with "Nope, thanks for reminding me, I'll get right on it." That's something about actually respecting and liking the person calling me "babe", and knowing she wouldn't be asking the question if she didn't have a legitimate reason for it.
But then again, I'm just honest. Honestly, it's the honest ones you want to watch out for, because you can never predict when they're going to do something incredibly ... st
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I don't remember the exact quote....
"A man lies whenever he talks"
Actually, the reverse (Score:5, Interesting)
I've found myself more open and honest in email, I think partly because I'm typing at the computer and not actually in the presence of the person - it's more like I'm talking to myself.
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And this self said I wanna be free.
emails are edited more (Score:2)
even IM chats are better.
why? they're edited less, more of stream of thought. emails are one stream of thought written and then edited multiple times.
Totally legit. (Score:1)
Dear Sir,
Good day and compliments. This letter will definitely come to you as a huge surprise, but I implore you to take the time to go through it carefully as the decision you make will go off a long way to determine the future and continued existence of the entire members of my family.
Please allow me to introduce myself. My name is Dr. (Mrs.) Mariam Abacha, the wife of the late head of state and commander in chief of the armed forces of the federal republic of Nigeria who died on the 8th of June 1998.
My o
Seriously? (Score:2)
In the absence of physical tells, we tend to lie more? This is a revelation? I think I'm applying for a grant to find out why you get wet in the rain.
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Not me. I lie the most when I know people are trying to read tells.
But you still have to get the cards, so, no bracelets for me. Yet.
Are the results caused by the eletronic part? (Score:1)
Is it because it's an e-mail that they lie more or because it's a constructed piece of written media?
Did they find the same results in normal letters/mail vs oral/IM communication?
I suspect it's all because lying is a lot easier to do when you can edit and rewrite what you're saying before you've actually said it.
Not in my previous company (Score:1)
It was an extremely sales oriented company in a fairly shifty industry so, we just went with 100% lies on all communications (email/face to face/phone and customer facing or internal). Therefore, it wasn't more in this case.
most likely? (Score:3)
e-mail messages are most likely to contain lies
As in email messages have a greater than 50% chance of containing a lie, or email messages seem to have more lies than texting or face-to-face conversation?
Most != More (Score:2)
and that e-mail messages are most likely to contain lies.
Really? Can you quantify 'most'? P > 0.5?
I'm not disagreeing with the subject line premise (more common). I just think the summary exaggerates. Or perhaps they are just lying to us.
Its also possible that the statistics are biased by the number of Nigerian investment scheme offers and penis enhancement product ads piling up in most in boxes.
Writing for Fox News increases it the most. (Score:1)
[eom]
Most communications are visual (Score:5, Interesting)
I was taught in a communications course that over 90% of the "information" in a conversation is transmitted visually. We read each others' faces and body language.
My hobby is leading a rock band. I have noticed that people really don't hear as much of what we're doing as we think we are -- they are watching how we act on stage. This became apparent when we did a multi-band show one time and though the other bands were musically just as good as we were, we got a rousing ovation because my guitarist and I were jumping around on stage and cracking jokes. And the observations from the audience overwhelmingly confirmed -- it was how we behaved that sold our performance. We were good, we knew it, and we showed it.
So when you remove that element, that body language that will tell most people if you actually buy the bullshit you're selling, it frees you to sell far more bullshit.
Sociopaths and social manipulators don't even understand that what they're doing is wrong which is why one of the easiest ways to identify those folks is probably by their supernally smooth lying skills. Think about how charismatic TV preachers are, and think about how almost universally these folks turn out to be con-artists and frauds.
write it and forget it? (Score:1)
What ever happened to "say it forget it, write it regret it"?
The Internet was a pretty lady, and we loved her (Score:2)
OMG! Please tell me you are kidding! (Score:2)
Not true (Score:1)
Siri, please help (Score:2)
I am walking along a trail in the jungle. I arrive at a fork in the trail leading to two villages of Amazon tribeswomen. At the fork, there is a member of one of the two tribes, but I'm not certain which. One tribe's members always tell the truth, the other always lie. One tribe kidnaps travelers and makes them their sex slaves. The other does not.
Siri, what question should I ask this woman?
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I am walking along a trail in the jungle. I arrive at a fork in the trail leading to two villages of Amazon tribeswomen. At the fork, there is a member of one of the two tribes, but I'm not certain which. One tribe's members always tell the truth, the other always lie. One tribe kidnaps travelers and makes them their sex slaves. The other does not.
Siri, what question should I ask this woman?
The classic example has the restriction that you can only ask one question (so if there was only one tribe member there, you would ask "if a member of the other tribe was asked the question 'which way should I go to avoid kidnapping?', what would their answer be?", and do the opposite)
Without that restriction you can ask a few control questions to determine whether they are telling the truth or lying, and then ask them about it ("what is your gender?" for example)
In one of the Order of the Stick comics
I think it would differ per motivation for com. (Score:2)
If you're an honest and forthcoming person, I think you're willing to use the text aspect of internet communication to be more so.
If you're a dishonest person, you probably see the utility of electronic communication for deception and deceive more.
Lies aren't always bad (Score:3)
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Don't get used to it. The hard part isn't crafting the lie--it's getting all your lies mixed up with one another.
I can certainly believe that... (Score:1)
...Seeing as how I've been getting e-mails from all over the world for years now telling me that if I reply back with my credit card information I can get thousands of dollars from overseas bank accounts, but I never have, no matter how many times I reply telling them I've never had a credit card and never will! ;)
You got it wrong. (Score:3)
Liers wil lie.
There're psychological triggers that inhibits liers from lie when facing the interlocutors. These triggers doesn't happens they use a computer.
Digital media does not favors lying. It simply does not inhibits it.
All thanks to the iPad (Score:1)
Before then, I normally took the sitting position when I was emailing. Now I just hold the iPad while lying in bed. Progress!
duh! (Score:1)
Lying is only common when people try to interact with people. From what I've seen, people will almost never lie when they interact with devices or computer programs. Also, it is unlikely that an individual will lie when their anonymity is either assured, or enforced. When people interact about something they are personally invested in, the chances that they will lie go right through the roof!
as to the conclusion made in TFA, I'd say that the longer people have to make up lies, the more they will lie
Haha, no (Score:2)
I find that my propensity for dissembling is limited by emails.
When I compose an email, am I typically under less stress / duress (someone isn't demanding an immediate response for information that I do not have), and can more carefully consider my words when emailing someone. In my experience, some people will play phone hostage with you, and ask you to commit or agree to things that cannot be. Something along the lines of "I need this website up by 2 PM," when it's 1:45 PM, and it requires a major overhau
True Lies (Score:1)
I am lying and I am telling you the truth
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Definitely not (Score:2)