Hosting Services May Be Breaking Syrian Sanctions 106
judgecorp writes "Many Syrian government sites and services are hosted outside the country, in the U.S., Canada and Germany. A recent report suggests the hosting services may be breaking international sanctions against the Syrian regime, and assisting it in committing 'crimes against humanity.'"
North Korea too, and it's not new (Score:5, Insightful)
And seriously, hosting services assisting in "crimes against humanity"? They are informational sites about countries. It makes sense for them to outsource their hosting. Hell, even United States uses Akamai. If you want to do censorship against countries or things you don't agree with, sure, go ahead and silence their websites. But country having a website has nothing to do with "crimes against humanity".
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Planned visiting the IP address, Malaga Spain, or North Korea?
The first is easy to do. The second and third doesn't explain why you would whois the IP.
I'd love to see North Korea for curiousity sake; darn me for getting my US citizenship that makes it illegal for me to visit now.
Supposedly one of the safest countries in the world to visit despite (perhaps because of) the communist ties.
Re:North Korea too, and it's not new (Score:5, Funny)
Planned visiting the IP address, Malaga Spain, or North Korea?
The first is easy to do. The second and third doesn't explain why you would whois the IP.
I'd love to see North Korea for curiousity sake; darn me for getting my US citizenship that makes it illegal for me to visit now.
Supposedly one of the safest countries in the world to visit despite (perhaps because of) the communist ties.
And I hear they have a great visitor's facility where you can stay for free, for years at a time!
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I also have heard it's really safe country to visit, actually. If you're being an idiot, they don't punish you. At most your guide will get punished for it. There's really interesting video guide to north korea in YouTube (and vbs.tv) about it, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG4gL3eAHVs [youtube.com]
Re:North Korea too, and it's not new (Score:4, Interesting)
You are quite the sadist aren't you. "They might imprison your guide and rape his family but think of the small talk". How about you visit South Korea instead. Or even go to Cuba.
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I like traveling. I have also spend time in rest of the Asia, including Laos, Cambodia an
What? (Score:5, Insightful)
Are you seriously comparing whole North Korea to concentration camp in Hitler's Germany? Frankly, it's not like that. While it's true that Kim Jong is the sole leader of the country, it's not really that bad for the people there. They have it much like rest of the world, and people seem really happy. Sure, some of it comes from the fact that they don't know better, but to compare it to concentration camp is ludicrous.
It sounds like you'd be fine with visiting Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge or Soviet gulags as well. Between 1990-1997 Korea lost between 5-12% of the population to starvation with the military getting preferential treatment in regards to food rations and everyone else being effectively left to fend for themselves. North Korea is still suffering from famine and according to reports people are getting about 700 calories a day of food. Also, north koreans are apparently about five inches shorter on average than equivalent south koreans.
Either you're woefully misinformed about the situation in North Korea or you're intentionally blinding yourself to it or you simply don't care. If the problem is the former, I'd suggest reading up on things before saying that things are fine and dandy. If it's the latter, well, you should spend time trying to find some compassion and humanity within yourself instead of traveling so much.
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And what does their food amount per day or length have to do with me visiting there? If anything, I help the general population by visiting there. Sure, that 2000-3000 euros it costs me to do so doesn't matter much, but the people get to see more people from foreign countries. Maybe it indirectly helps in something, I don't know. What have you done, exactly? And again, as I've previously noticed how people (especially those from US) tell how other nationals are suffering so and so much, and when I've visited there it's been nothing like that, I don't really take everything I read on the internet not so seriously. Usually the people are happy, and would be unhappy if things were different. Other people, especially US ones, for some reason like to think they "know better" and try to impose their views on others.
You're not going to be helping the general population by visiting. The money you spend goes directly to the north korean government and not the people. It's not as if your guide/escort is going to let you interact significantly with the average person or buy anything from them.
If you look at reports and studies by a variety of sources (south korean, us, UN, NGO, chinese, etc), they all pretty much paint similar pictures of what's happening in north korean. I suppose everyone could be lying and you magi
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Totalitarian governments are not about being nice and they will cut unimaginable corners to achieve their goals.
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I visited the USA, and spent about £2000. But I don't approve of lots of things in your country -- was I wrong to visit? Should I only visit the handful of countries I think are nicer than mine?
I'd like to visit North Korea, but not just yet. It's a long way away, so the flights are too expensive. I have some vague plans to visit Cuba with a friend though, although the travel agent she asked said she'll have problems as she has dual citizenship (here and the USA).
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I visited the USA, and spent about £2000. But I don't approve of lots of things in your country -- was I wrong to visit? Should I only visit the handful of countries I think are nicer than mine?
Well said, I was jjust going to post something similar. I find the US's invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan absurd, its adherence to capital punishment offensive and its tolerance of religious extremists ludicrous.
But my kids wanted to go to Disney World, so hello and welcome from the TSA.
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I "had to" go for work (I wouldn't have refused going anywhere, but I didn't choose the country). I stayed an extra week for holiday.
I don't yet drive, and hadn't planned to go to the USA until I'd learnt. So, I walked and used public transport, and as a result met more poor people than most tourists probably do. At least twice a day, on some days four or five times, I was asked for money. One guy said he'd got a job, and needed the money to take the metro to it. I wasn't sure whether to believe that, an
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The second part was via the press and Amnesty International I believe - not that relevant though since it's just an example and the story we are commenting on is about Syria which has a pile of different atrocities of it's own.
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Is your next trick to cheer for Stalin?
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The scary part is the effectiveness of the indoctrination, if documentaries like National Geographic Inside Undercover In North Korea [youtube.com] can be taken at anywhere near face value. Of course, with any visit, there is staging, but it really seems like there are too many cataract patients too believably thankful to Dear Leader to be under duress. Anyway, they're effective enough to scare me.
It's scary because of the idea that you might need to kill a large fraction of the country in a conflict, that they would t
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It's different, but in some ways worse. I know somebody that probably has close relatives there but has not been able to make contact (from China) for more than twenty years so they have no idea if they are alive or dead and no way to get in touch. The refugees they have spoken too have shocking stories.
Deliberate policies that result in mass starvation and large numbers of executions for arbitrary reasons is different
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It's not really that bad for the people there? Are you fucking kidding? It's not bad for the families and friends of government workers but for the other 95% it's living hell. You visiting North Korea for an "awesome small talk subject" is just giving money to prop up one of the most evil regimes since Hitler's Germany.
Watch nearly any documentary on North Korea. It's hard to find good video because anyone caught recording in non-approved areas is tortured to death, along with all of their family member
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It's a beautiful country- and the culture is quite unlike anywhere else. It simply would be an experience you can't get elsewhere. The people are not being "tortured.
Yes, they'd be better off with a less ill Kim Jong ruling them and granting them more freedoms- but visiting would not give any legitimacy to Kim nor increase their hardships.
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If you ask someone that's been there they will tell you that Xenophobia is just about the state religion and people will want to kill you for being one of those different looking oppressing foreigners.
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North Korea of course :-)
And yeah, I want to see it just for the experience and because it's something so little amount of people have done. Would make awesome small talk subject too.
I also have heard it's really safe country to visit, actually. If you're being an idiot, they don't punish you.
This stamp collector from the Netherlands> [yahoo.com] (lame Babelfish translation, but Googles one is even worse) visited North Korea 24 times. His last visit however ended with weeks and weeks of interrogations, a forced confession to a crime he didn't commit and a judge that absolved him (but that might just as well sentenced him to decades of jail).
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Supposedly one of the safest countries in the world to visit despite (perhaps because of) the communist ties.
I realize that a lot of what gets said about various countries is propoganda by other countries who dont' like each other, however, if you believe this statement, you are an idiot of the highest order.
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Actually, because they have such a harsh military dictatorship and they have eyes on you all the time it is very safe to visit.
Living there- perhaps not so much.
I think it was the BBC that did a survery of the safest countries to visit several years back and North Korea was surprisingly ranked amongst the top 2 or 3 in the world.
Will have to hunt for that link.
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It's not illegal for a US citizen to travel to the DPRK (I've done it). It's actually easier than Cuba (where you can legally travel to as well, but can't spend money without permission from the Department of the Treasury).
You have to travel with an authorized tour group, and your guides/translators won't let you out of their sight. You will only see preapproved things, but it's still an amazing and very unique experience.
I used Koryo Tours (http://www.koryogroup.com/) and had a great experience, there are
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It's only "safe to visit" because you are literally only taken to areas approved by the government, where "normal" North Koreans do not live or frequent, and because you are with a government tour guide at all times. And that's assuming you don't do something stupid like bring contraband, take a photo without asking your tour guide for permission first, try to sneak away from the tour group, give the appearance of being in any way anti-North-Korean, etc.
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If the website encourages violence against its citizens who are uprising then aren't they assisting?
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IMO, the best way to undermine and/or overthrow crazy regimes and create true change in countries is not to discipline the enemy government, but to act as an example and lend out a hand of friendship straight to the people. Sanctions against governments always result in the enemy government finding new and innovative ways to continue enriching themselves while transferring the pain of sanctions down to the people.
All too often sanctions hurt the people of a country, and only barely the government. North Kor
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Do you know what sanctions are?
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Well of course the don't have Internet in North Korea.
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I've heard they have a national intranet but I don't think it's connected to the global network.
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Not only do they have an internet in North Korea...their egotistical vice president claims to have invented it too.
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What about DNS? Won't the TLD providers be required to shut down all of .ir for example?
Re:North Korea too, and it's not new (Score:5, Insightful)
It might not be popular but: If you want the Internet to be a bastion for free speech, you have to have free speech for all (however repellent), not just for those with whom you agree.
I just did a check, and some Iranian government websites (as given on Wikipedia) work, as they should, including those with a .com TLD.
So why the special attention to Syria? Iran also put down an uprising a few years ago.
If you don't agree with something, argue against it on your own website; don't shut down somebody else's.
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Nk's website isn't run or paid for bythe n Korean government, but rather a 3rd party entity, the Korean friendship association. I know this because I'm also researching in hopes of visiting.
To the sympathizer accuser below: I'm not going to show support for the regime. Or disapproval. I'm just extremely curious about the place. There's an added kick that I'd certainly be within the first 10'000 americans to step foot there since the war. And I like non standard vacations. Forget France or Britain, gimme Ban
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Forget France or Britain, gimme Bangkok, Cartagena or Pyongyang!!
I think you should remove Bangkok from your list. Thailand is popular for Europeans to visit (probably others too?), especially rich, young ones. The usual reason for going is to do volunteer work, mature, etc (spoof video, meme in the UK [youtube.com]. Back at university, they recount stories of ordering a bucket of strong punch for $1 from a pretty woman on a beach, drinking it all, and partying until dawn, every day. (I'm sure it's a great place to visit, but I don't think of it as "non-standard").
"847,198 British
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i already did bangkok. My first trip out of the country. Fun place, i'd go back and see the rest of Thailand (and buy more suits for $75 each), except its a 20-24 hour flight from NYC (which is a 3 hour flight from me already).
Went to cartagena this spring, very cool. I was expecting it to be a dangerous place, but (un)fortunately, nothing happened. I'm planning to return next year when i get some time off again.
Cartagena is actually fairly popular with Europeans, it's American's that don't go, owing to fea
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Do you not understand what sanctions are for or how they work?
Sanctions work?
Re:North Korea too, and it's not new (Score:5, Funny)
Do you not understand what sanctions are for or how they work?
Sanctions work?
Of course they work. Sanctions were great against Imperial Japan, Nazi Germany, North Korea, Iran, and Cuba. Before sanctions, they all had terrible crimes against humanity. After sanctions, look how quickly the people came to love the United States and then overthrew their evil regimes to impose new democratic governments with freedom for all!
Re:North Korea too, and it's not new (Score:5, Insightful)
Just because it's not a panacea doesn't mean it's not worth doing.
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Rule by the richest 1% for the richest 1% (Score:2)
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Who wants to live in a democracy? Rule by the masses? No thanks. I'll keep my Republic, thank you very much.
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but Republics are democracies too, just not direct ones. Otherwise, you wouldn't bother to have people voting in elections.
But no doubt you are American and think your definition of Republic and the US political systemis is uniquely different from the rest of the world's
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Better than the alternative, yes.
Huh (Score:4, Informative)
Capitalists only care about money, film at 11. (Score:4, Interesting)
Someone's willing to take money from political despots in the name of making a profit? Really? This is news?
I'm not saying it's right, the number of Western businesses willing to sell repression tools to China, etc. really kind of makes me sick and I wish they could engage in more complex motivations than just "sales, sales, sales", but they're not.
Was it Khrushchev who said the west would sell it the rope to hang us with?
Re:Capitalists only care about money, film at 11. (Score:5, Informative)
Was it Khrushchev who said the west would sell it the rope to hang us with?
"The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them." -Lenin
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This from the guy who claimed "all you need is love". Seems he was wrong on both counts :p
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Yeah. Accountants account for it. What a shock. Corruption costs money, and accountants (note: their job is to TRACK MONEY) keep tabs on it. Kinda like they keep track of losses by theft. You may be surprised to note that even though accountants track theft similar to corruption, theft is also a crime.
What bullshit, you are conflating internal accountants (and even the mafia and other criminal organisations will have bookkeepers and so on) with external reporting accountants/auditors.
That is like saying that because some lawyers get paid to defend criminals, all lawyers are criminals.
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Greed is what causes corruption, not capitalism.
But with pure capitalism there is nothing to keep it in check. That requires, oh no, the intervention of the law, AKA The Evil Socialist Government Meddlers.
And this is where the loonies come out of the woodwork with "but we don't have proper capitalism/free markets, if we did there would be (almost) no corruption because The Invisible Hand would magic it all away".
The fact that the half-arsed socialist systems in Russia and China resulted in a culture of cronyism and corruption is because they got s
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No, he, and you, are wrong. Capitalism only works the way you describe when it's not implemented properly (which is why the U.S. is so screwed up). According to capitalism, you are supposed to have capitalists and government as countervailing forces - a strong capitalist class, to promote efficiency, and a strong government to protect individuals. When the government collapses and sells out to the capitalist class, you get the US.
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"...when its not implemented properly..."?
Isn't it a little dubious to try to defend an economic system largely defined as markets free from regulation or control by claiming that its most common practice is "not implemented properly", aka regulated?
And if the implementation of capitalism is the regulation of markets, isn't that what we have now? How do you assure that capitalism is implemented correctly, and what is the appropriate regulatory framework for proper implementation?
And isn't by regulation of
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Isn't it a little dubious to try to defend an economic system largely defined as markets free from regulation or control by claiming that its most common practice is "not implemented properly", aka regulated?
Well, it would be, if that's how capitalism is defined. It isn't, though. What you describe is closer to laissez-faire - which is a type of capitalism, but not the the definition of capitalism. The definition of capitalism, as far as any such beast exists, is concerned with private (as opposed to public) ownership of the means of production, and of the use of profit and competition (as opposed to force, or good-will) to motivate useful labour. Regulation, and the degree of such, varies throughout capitalist
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One could argue, and I think pretty well, that that mentality was instrumental in bringing down the USSR and is rapidly converting China towards capitalism. The mere act of buying the rope to hang someone from them implies, in a certain way, that that person is superior to you (at least at rope building) and maybe we shouldn't kill them after all. Or at least become better at rope building. This metaphor is stretching thin, but the point is dealing with hostile countries can often bring about reform.
well, (Score:5, Informative)
Surely you don't expect people to let a little thing like "crimes against humanity" stop someone from making a buck.
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More like, you don't expect them to care/check what people are using their service as unless there are complaints(from powerful companies) do you? It's not like most companies would think of things like sanctions or whatnot. Also, how do you check if it's a person or a government doing the registering? Basically, it's alot of work to check for, for a insanely low occurring problem.
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Bayer
HIV, 1980s.
http://www.naturalnews.com/News_000647_Bayer_vaccines_HIV.html [naturalnews.com]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg-52mHIjhs [youtube.com]
Not that anyone is going to hold them accountable....
Apple's production line does massive environmental damage....
Nearly every employer most people reading this have worked for always has these little 'keep this on the downlow SOPs' for ways they get around regulations/rules.....
Yeah... like ethics ever mattered in the pursuit of cash.
On a global scale, the view of success is measured wron
Crimes against humanity (Score:3, Insightful)
Lets use this example?
Lets suppose that 3 people go in and rob a bank. During this heist, they shoot someone who later dies. After the robbery/murder, they jump in an F150 and drive away. Does this mean that Ford is assisting armed robbery and capital murder? No!
This is ludicrous.
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Your example has absolutely nothing to do with the actual circumstances. Syria is accused of crimes against humanity. As a result, sanctions have been placed on Syria. The purpose of the sanctions is to make life difficult for the government of Syria. By ignoring the sanctions, you are making their life a little less difficult.
Re:Crimes against humanity (Score:5, Interesting)
By ignoring the sanctions, you are making their life a little less difficult.
Back in the real world, 'sanctions' normally have two results:
1. They make the leaders rich as they control the supply of essential goods to the population.
2. They make the population hate the 'sanctioners' more than they hate their government.
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We are not talking about 'essential goods', we are talking about web hosting for the Syrian government.
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We are not talking about 'essential goods', we are talking about web hosting for the Syrian government.
Yeah, and? If sanctions against essential goods rarely work, why do you think sanctions against non-essential goods will work?
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Now imagine they hire a lawyer who convinces the world that they are the victims here. That they are fine, upstanding citizens who would never do anything remotely like what they're accused of. That obviously it's all a conspiracy instituted by the the guy they got into a fight with during college. And imagine that somehow the world believes them and they go out and do it again a week later. Did the lawyer assist them in robbery and capital murder? Well, legally no. But ethically many would argue yes.
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Did Ford know they were selling the car to a bunch of murderers? If so, then I'd say they're morally, if not legally, responsible. But of course, Ford wouldn't know that because no crime had yet been committed and there was no evidence crimes would be committed in the future.
In the case of Syria, everyone with more than a childlike understanding of the outside world knows that they have been committing and continue to commit crimes against humanity. In an effort to get them to stop, the governments of th
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And yet the manufacturer of the gun the robbers used can be sued... (has happened)
Where are the Saudi Arabia sanctions? (Score:5, Informative)
Protests have been happening in Saudi Arabia, although I would barely know watching the corporate media in the US. In Qatif, the police open fired on the demonstrators - they have been in fact, slaughtering people there continually. The Saudi police have killed organizers of protests like Abdul-Ahad. Where are the calls for sanctions on Saudi Arabia in the West?
Politicians keep saying there is a threat from radical Islam. Of course, Osama bin Laden, the mujahideen and nascent al Qaeda and Taliban were radical Islamists back when the USA was backing them to overthrow the secular Afghani government. Even before the Russians got involved. Israel complains about Hamas, but Israel used to secretly fund Hamas, as a bulwark against the PLO. And what about support for Saudi Arabia, probably more out there than Iran in terms of Islamic fundamentalism?
If we look at history over the years, up to this very day without change, the west from the 1970s has always backed fundamentalist Islamists, and fought to overthrow secular regimes, of the Nasserite type - secular, with pan-Arab aspirations, talk of sovereignty from western powers and a vaguely socialist platforms, at least back when the Warsaw Pact was around. What governments has the west become involved since 9/11? Iraq, Libya and now Syria - all secular countries. Iraq has gone from a secular country, to one that with US troops on the ground has had its constitution changed to say its Islamic.
The truth is that people like Osama bin Laden were radical Islamists who the US built up and created, and never cared about his terrorists acts against the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan. They in fact, funded them - flag-wavers like Sylvester Stallone made movies lionizing the Islamic radicals. Secular, pan-Arab followers of Nasser like Qadaffi, Saddam Hussein etc. who were concerned with sovereignty have been the main targets and enemies. We can see what the US has done in Afghanistan to secular regimes, in Iraq which is now Islamic according to its constitution etc. The Saudi government is built up. Yet we are told we have to fear the radical Islamists, although that has been who the US has been supporting up to this day against the secular rulers who want sovereignty.
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And what about support for Saudi Arabia, probably more out there than Iran in terms of Islamic fundamentalism?
Iraq has gone from a secular country, to one that with US troops on the ground has had its constitution changed to say its Islamic.
How Islamic is "Islamic"? Are you talking about the outward appearance? Saudi Arabia allowed the USA to have military bases in it's country, something which is strictly forbidden in Islam, although some scholars bought into the war propaganda and made an exception. Recently, the Saudi king has allowed women in congress, something else which is prohibited. Or how about the discrimination of foreigners who'd like to settle in the country? I can go on and on about Saudi Arabia.
As for Iran, I'm surprised hardly
Fuck sanctions. (Score:2, Interesting)
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I've never understood why America is working so hard to install Islamic governments throughout the Middle East either. I can only presume it's so they can immanentize the eschaton so the Christian nutters will be raptured away.
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Well, obviously it's because Obama is a Muslim! It all makes sense now.
/joke (since slashdot seems to need it)
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I've never understood why America is working so hard to install Islamic governments throughout the Middle East either. I can only presume it's so they can immanentize the eschaton so the Christian nutters will be raptured away.
The thing is, a majority of people in most Middle East countries are Muslims, so any democratic government is going to be Islamic. The attempts to prop up dictators like Mubarak have clearly failed.
Easy to spot (Score:2)
All the Canadian website hosting providers have built-in scripts that add ", eh?" after random sentences.
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Yes, let's add '.eh!' with '.ca' for Canadian domain names. I'd say just '.eh' but it seems that while it isn't assigned there are is some confusion:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.eh [wikipedia.org]