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US Government Probes Huawei and ZTE

Unknown Lamer posted more than 2 years ago | from the dsm-v-to-add-congressional-service-to-axis-ii dept.

China 122

judgecorp writes "Two leading Chinese telecoms companies, Huawei and ZTE, are under investigation for possible spying in the U.S. A government committee says the companies may be stealing U.S. economic secrets, and use of their equipment might open U.S. infrastructure to espionage."

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Spying Char? (2, Funny)

Chris Mattern (191822) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148108)

The Chinese government is not in charge of Gundam!

Re:Spying Char? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38148232)

I see what you did there.

Re:Spying Char? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38148776)

this person is warning a person I am watching u when u least expected it. nd that is a good thing. we need to put the Fear of God in this reoffender who think they cannot be touch by the long arm of the law. i bed the differ if enough citzen would call an establishment . If they are doing any thing wrong they willl run, if not the will stand and fight, for the business Enough stated hope this help also watch the body lan. if they can not look u in hte eyes while in converstion or is figgity and or was dry mouth alll a sudden, please be watchful the mental paients on so drug will have this as sideaffects from the sythenic drugs. if u re movet he sythenic drug there mental and behavior will can i know because i went through they are uin need of food water c500 fishoil 1200mg ansd b12 this clear my mind and also my dad mind this is for o pos a pos ppl i quess the rest could beenfit as well. hope this helped i try it and look at me nowlolo How do u like this lady from a place call Hell 1/2 acre

Re:Spying Char? (1)

Djehuty3 (1371395) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150358)

Watch out for Captain Quattro, he is a CHAR.

Well... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38148112)

I would have used a spying int, but that's just me.

Re:Well... (1)

ComaVN (325750) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148132)

I'd expect the Chinese to use bignums.

Re:Well... (2)

LizardKing (5245) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148150)

Just make sure you avoid floats - they're noted for their inaccuracy.

Re:Well... (1)

Dishevel (1105119) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148892)

bool be better.

what, they installed carrierIQ? (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148148)

the motive in selling in usa isn't profit?

what about the motives for cisco selling in china?

Duh! (4, Informative)

DontBlameCanada (1325547) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148166)

Huawei is a Chinese government funded company. I'm sure the funding isn't charity.

I would've thought after Huawei was caught stealing cisco tech (http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/Cisco_Mot_for_PI.pdf), that they'd be blackballed for any government network deployments.

Re:Duh! (4, Insightful)

Joce640k (829181) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148300)

Yeah, but every single country in the world does this. Including the USA (the USA is actually one of the worst, it's not even government level stuff, it's handing Airbus secrets to Boeing so they can compete, stuff like that).

Why all the stories about Chinese spying...? It's just more smoke and mirrors to give the population something to focus on other than the government's failure.

Re:Duh! (3, Insightful)

robmv (855035) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148406)

That USA do this does not means that they must allow the Chinese to do it, vice versa is true too, spying is not something that follows reciprocity

Re:Duh! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38148760)

Actually, technically it does.
The Spy Wars are still going strong even now. They never did end.
Where do you think most of that military budget goes? Certainly not to that supposedly expensive war.

Re:Duh! (1)

Joce640k (829181) | more than 2 years ago | (#38149648)

That's not really the point. The point is that "China" is the only name that ever appears on TV. China is the new Eastasia ... and it's war!

Re:Duh! (1)

jgtg32a (1173373) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148460)

Any sources on that?

Re:Duh! (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38148496)

Google for "echelon."

Re:Duh! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38148744)

Google for 'tinfoil hat'.

Re:Duh! (4, Informative)

Joce640k (829181) | more than 2 years ago | (#38149552)

It's a pretty famous case*, a special European commission was even formed to investigate it.

For the lazy: http://cryptome.org/echelon-ep-fin.htm [cryptome.org]

[*] ie. a Google for something like "nsa boeing airbus" would have found a cite in seconds

Re:Duh! (4, Insightful)

joocemann (1273720) | more than 2 years ago | (#38149354)

No. The frequency by which China can be indicated in espionage is a tell of the size of their collection eforts.... MASSIVE.

You hear about espionage on their part every couple weeks. Nearly every espionage related incident originates from the same source. It is reckless to assume its because they have poor tradecraft and get caught. A better and more real assumption is that the freq of esp. Being caught is a tell of the overall size.

Re:Duh! (2)

davester666 (731373) | more than 2 years ago | (#38151180)

No, the frequency by which China can be indicated in espionage is a tell of WHERE YOU ARE STANDING AT THE TIME.

Depending on where you stand, any number of countries will be the one that spies the most.

Re:Duh! (0)

toxonix (1793960) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150098)

Let me axe you a kweschun: Are you some kind of for-en-er? China then turns the weakening dollar into massive reserves by manipulating their currency. This is a bigger problem than spying, but spying is part of the whole US-China problem. The big problem will come later when US companies/govt. make us completely dependent on China for food. That's a scary situation which we should be working against now. Ban Chinese manufactured imports. That includes everything Apple makes in China. See what that does in the long run for the US economy.

Re:Duh! (1)

Kagetsuki (1620613) | more than 2 years ago | (#38149216)

That and the fact they make shitty, barely functioning products. Anybody know if they've ever actually produced a wireless product that didn't overheat or have power issues after 5 minutes of use? I sure haven't seen one!

Re:Duh! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38151250)

I've been using an E160 as a primary internet connection for almost 2 years now; it's still going strong and never caused me any problems. I've had a few issues with the service provider however; the local cell drops out completely in heavy rain and the provider themselves admit that the cell has too many users at peak times. Being near a youth hostel is probably part of that.

Re:Duh! (2)

Alarash (746254) | more than 2 years ago | (#38149226)

Every Chinese company has to be owned at least at 51% by their government. They are communists, remember?

I'm not feeling bad one bit for Cisco. They wanted to cut costs by outsourcing in China, and it bit them in the ass. They settled out of court so we don't know what the end deal was, but the word around the campfire is that Cisco now gets paid any time Huawey sells something.

In Soviet Russia secrets steal you! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38149358)

China is the new Soviet Russia.

Economic Secrets? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38148172)

The best way to compete with China is probably to give them all the secrets to our current economy and hope they use them.

Re:Economic Secrets? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38148222)

The US economy is actually working great. You might be under the false impression that you're one of the people it's intended to work for. But the people who have 10,000 times your income couldn't be happier.

Re:Economic Secrets? (2)

elgeeko.com (2472782) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148750)

Actually, it's the people with 10,000 times our income that are having the big problems. It all stems from greed, crooked accounting and poor business practices. The problem is the upper class defrauded their way into wealth and now it's catching up with them and as a result the problems are trickling down to us. Sadly, a lot of the 'super-rich' are broke and they're just now realizing all of their wealth was built on lies and deception. I have a friend with a supposed net worth over 10 million, last week I had to buy lunch because he's broke. Sure, he's "worth" a lot, but he has almost no liquid capital and his net worth is shrinking fast, which means his investments are costing him money, not making him money.

Re:Economic Secrets? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38149314)

Lol, he's super rich because he knows how to save his money by getting suckers like you to pick up his tabs!!!

Re:Economic Secrets? (2)

elgeeko.com (2472782) | more than 2 years ago | (#38151308)

He doesn't have any money. He has a lot of assets, but no cash. You can't go to McDonalds and buy lunch with the title on a strip mall. Those assets cost him a lot of money each month to keep, more than what they're currently bringing in. In order to have cash to maintain his assets, pay his utilities, buy groceries or pick up lunch he has to sell assets (which were once income producing and are now income draining). Do you know how hard it is to sell an asset that is bleeding money? He has to sell way below "value" and his 'profit' is taxed at the highest level (unless he reinvests, which he can't do because he needs the funds). He might be "worth" 10 million on paper, but his assets aren't really worth that, some of his assets have debts attached to them, he might be able to make just enough money selling everything to end up only 250k in debt, if he's really lucky. His annual income was negative 3 million last year. You think it's hard putting food on the table when you make 20k a year, try feeding a family on negative 3 million. One last comment; being worth 10 million in assets doesn't even come close to "super-rich", in fact you missed the whole point, he's flat ass broke and close to liquidating just so he'll end up with ONLY a quarter of a million in DEBT.

Re:Economic Secrets? (3, Insightful)

vux984 (928602) | more than 2 years ago | (#38151464)

He might have 10 million in assets, but if he has 10.25 million in liabilities than "on paper" he's in the hole a quarter million bucks.

The whole "worth a lot on paper" idiom generally refers to people who actually are worth a lot, but have no liquid cash. Typically, they can get liquidity by selling a few assets... presumably well below market value, since the assets aren't all that liquid... but he'll still end up way ahead of zero. WAY AHEAD.

Your friend sounds like he's bankrupt on paper, but in practice is ahead of most bankrupt people because at least there is a chance his investments will turn around and pull him back into the black.

Re:Economic Secrets? (1)

mmcuh (1088773) | more than 2 years ago | (#38149046)

I have 10000 times my own income, you insensitive clod!

Re:Economic Secrets? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38149790)

So, you make 0? or you interpreted 10000 as little endian binary...

Well, if you make 0, both of those interpretations are correct.

Re:Economic Secrets? (1)

Bucky24 (1943328) | more than 2 years ago | (#38151066)

Or he might make infinity, which would also make the statement correct.

Re:Economic Secrets? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38148922)

The best way to compete with China is probably to give them all the secrets to our current economy and hope they use them.

That's the funniest thing I've read today!

Re:Economic Secrets? (1)

stretch0611 (603238) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150210)

Lets just give them our politicians. That combined with corporate payoffs^t^t^t^t^t^t^t "Campaign Contributions" is the secret to our current economic condition.

Makes sense! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38148194)

Because Cisco and Juniper don't employ Chinese (or foreigners), don't source components from China (or other countries) and American employees would never betray Uncle Sam, not for a million dollars!

China can steal our secrets. (0)

Oswald McWeany (2428506) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148200)

China can steal our military secrets.
They can take our economic secrets.
The commies can nick our industrial secrets.

but they will never discover Victoria's secret.

Spying char (2)

Chrisq (894406) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148224)

US Government Probes Huawei and ZTE On Spying Char

IS that a new brand of Chinese tea "spi ying char"

Sounds like FUD (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38148228)

Unless they have evidence already, sound like a FUD. The easiest way to advantage your own product (made in USA) and paint the other ones (made in China) as bad, is to say you will be "investigating them". In most people mind they will see it as smoke indicating of a fire.

Competing interests (2)

Manip (656104) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148236)

The US might be doing this for honest reasons but then again they might be doing this because US based communications manufacturers are unhappy with companies like ZTE undercutting them using the free and Open Source Android OS.

I bet US based companies can find tons of patents that Chinese companies are infringing. But then again many of these patents are overly broad and are largely being used in an anti-competitive way.

Plus the whole accusation of spying, unless shown to be true, I read as akin to "buying from China isn't patriotic." If the US had evidence of ZTE spying on them you sure as hell would be reading about it right now.

Re:Competing interests (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38149106)

I used to work for Ericsson, now I work for Alcatel-Lucent, both at US offices, but not US companies. One of the things we've noticed is anywhere one of those two companies opens an office, shortly after, huawei opens an office within 10 miles. I swear it's true. Right now I'm sitting less than 5 miles from one of their office, at my old office, the story was the same, and remember the ericsson and alcatel offices are only 50 miles away from eachother, yet huawei has two, one close to ericsson, one close to alcatel. We started keeping track once we noticed at first. When at Ericsson, we'd always laugh that when we published our roadmap, 2 days later huawei would publish theirs, and it'd look similar so we started screwing with our roadmaps. I understand that in slashdot it's popular to go "ohhh evil amerika!!!!!!!!!!! they do it two!!!!!" but really, the behavior of chinese companies is more than a little suspect.

Re:Competing interests (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38150134)

I used to work for Ericsson, now I work for Alcatel-Lucent, both at US offices, but not US companies. One of the things we've noticed is anywhere one of those two companies opens an office, shortly after, huawei opens an office within 10 miles. I swear it's true. Right now I'm sitting less than 5 miles from one of their office, at my old office, the story was the same, and remember the ericsson and alcatel offices are only 50 miles away from eachother, yet huawei has two, one close to ericsson, one close to alcatel. We started keeping track once we noticed at first. When at Ericsson, we'd always laugh that when we published our roadmap, 2 days later huawei would publish theirs, and it'd look similar so we started screwing with our roadmaps. I understand that in slashdot it's popular to go "ohhh evil amerika!!!!!!!!!!! they do it two!!!!!" but really, the behavior of chinese companies is more than a little suspect.

Post as anon, for obvious reasons. I worked for an American mobile phone manufacturer (I'll let you take a wild guess which company this is) who at some point in the past opened manufacturing plants in East Asia, and who started offshoring engineering tasks in China. Stuff was copied off source control and prototypes and blue prints "disappeared", but upper management didn't quite give a shit as "offshoring == cost savings" and "cost savings == good". One would wonder if upper management was getting something under the table to allow such things to happen.

That's all I'm going to say, and I will leave it as that. People can believe this or claim this is FUD, I don't give a shit anymore.

Re:Competing interests (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38151382)

I used to work for Ericsson, now I work for Alcatel-Lucent, both at US offices, but not US companies. One of the things we've noticed is anywhere one of those two companies opens an office, shortly after, huawei opens an office within 10 miles. I swear it's true. Right now I'm sitting less than 5 miles from one of their office, at my old office, the story was the same, and remember the ericsson and alcatel offices are only 50 miles away from eachother, yet huawei has two, one close to ericsson, one close to alcatel. We started keeping track once we noticed at first. When at Ericsson, we'd always laugh that when we published our roadmap, 2 days later huawei would publish theirs, and it'd look similar so we started screwing with our roadmaps. I understand that in slashdot it's popular to go "ohhh evil amerika!!!!!!!!!!! they do it two!!!!!" but really, the behavior of chinese companies is more than a little suspect.

The did the same in Sweden, opened an office just beside the Sony-Ericsson Symbian division, and hired allot of the developers after SE closed the Symbian division!

Experience with my Huawei router (4, Interesting)

FTWinston (1332785) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148266)

It was free with our ISP, so don't judge me. (We're with TalkTalk in the UK ... ok, do judge me.)

It used client-side validation only to determine whether or not I was entering a valid port to forward to. By copying the admin page to my local machine and updating the target, I was able to remove the validation and set up my port forward to .255 ... I managed to resist the urge of setting up a forward to something actually invalid, in case the router completely died on me.

If the guys that made my router are spies ... they're not very good.

Re:Experience with my Huawei router (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38148392)

How can you be certain it isn't doing validation on submitted values? Just because it has a first layer of validation on the client (thereby preventing a POST or GET request from refreshing the page) they could be doing a simple sanity check on the initial page itself. You might as well try it.

Re:Experience with my Huawei router (1)

FTWinston (1332785) | more than 2 years ago | (#38149400)

It might be, but the client-side validation specifically stopped you from entering a value of 255 in any of the boxes for the IP address, and the server didn't.

Re:Experience with my Huawei router (1)

Canazza (1428553) | more than 2 years ago | (#38149614)

you could use Firebug or IE/Chromes Dev console to force the value/change the page.

Re:Experience with my Huawei router (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38149000)

My netgear does the exact same thing. All data verification is done client side in the WebUI. Learnt a valuable lesson about firefox, tamper data and accidentally setting the router to have a 255.255.255.255 netmask.

Re:Experience with my Huawei router (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38149728)

> If the guys that made my router are spies ... they're not very good.

Oh but they are, as the router reported your "exploit" back to the mothership and they started a file on you.

Your "skills" may be useful to the Party someday.

Re:Experience with my Huawei router (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38150080)

That doesn't mean much, I hacked my Vonage Linksys router by using a firefox extension to remove form lengths so I could type commands in their ping utility.

The company may be spies, but that doesn't mean their front end development team knows anything about it.

It's the Fish! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38148280)

The Chinese have been using robotic char to monitor the US coast. The char have been found upstream several hundred miles. The Chinese have effectively deployed a completely automated surveillance network in the US through these stealth robot-fish.

No good can come from this (5, Insightful)

MikeRT (947531) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148304)

The People's Republic of China is a totalitarian state and most of its "private industry" is a facade for their civilian government or military. They routinely get caught with massive espionage operations in other countries. Whatever good that can from theoretically lower prices are negated by everything else that'll come with their increased role.

Even if the federal government so thoroughly separated itself from the telecommunication system that the NSA spy scandal was not even remotely possible, letting China get its tentacles deeper into our country's workings is asking for a lot of trouble. If in time they establish a backbone connection to Asia, you can bet your ass their spy agencies will be tapping it harder than a keg of top grade beer at a college party.

Re:No good can come from this (1, Insightful)

MadMaverick9 (1470565) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148400)

The People's Republic of China is a totalitarian state

take a close look at yourself first before judging other countries.

UC Davis Protestors Pepper Sprayed [youtube.com]

Re:No good can come from this (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38148570)

Yes, because the scope of a country as large as China can *SURELY* be comparable to the smaller scope of Davis, California, USA. Wait, UC Davis is a country????

Re:No good can come from this (1)

Cragen (697038) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148574)

Better than tanks, imho.

Re:No good can come from this (1)

DrBoumBoum (926687) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150564)

And a bullet in the back of the head (pointing downwards in order to preserve the eyes for organ harvesting).

Re:No good can come from this (4, Interesting)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148578)

Oh, please, compared with the rights abuses in China that's not even worth mentioning.

Re:No good can come from this (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38148584)

Even though there are some incidents in the US (we are not perfect by any means), it is nowhere near the level of China(although it seems to be moving in that direction currently). If Occupy was operating in China, the leaders would likely be imprisoned. I am getting tired of poor comparisons.

Re:No good can come from this (1)

Dishevel (1105119) | more than 2 years ago | (#38149002)

Shit.
I have spent time trying to be nice and stuff.
Now you come along with a dipshit stupid comment like that and blow it for me.
I am trying my best here people. I am trying to not be a snarky internet asshole.
I really am.I can only think that MadMaverick has figured out that I was trying to improve myself and thought that me becoming a better human would make his rankings go down. Therefore he has set out to sabotage my efforts by making a comment so stupid that I can not resist.

But I am smarter than him. I know that no one of the face of the planet is that stupid and see through is not very subtle trickery.

People like you are part of the problem (2)

MikeRT (947531) | more than 2 years ago | (#38149808)

take a close look at yourself first before judging other countries.

To even compare the US with China on these grounds does nothing but make them look less evil by comparison. It's like telling someone who spanks their children a little too much to "clean up their own house before passing judgment" on someone who beats the ever loving shit out of their kid on a weekly basis.

Re:People like you are part of the problem (1)

DrBoumBoum (926687) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150588)

Ore who rapes them to be even more eloquent.

Re:No good can come from this (2)

Squidlips (1206004) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150002)

That posting is a classic example of the Chinese Water Army...trying to flood out any criticism of China.

Re:No good can come from this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38150882)

The protesters were not being detained, or forced to sit in any way. They were REPEATEDLY ORDERED to get up, get off the sidewalk, and leave. At any time, any of them were free to leave. The trick is to watch at least 20 SECONDS of a video.

Re:No good can come from this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38148654)

People might consider spraying protestors in the US with pepper spray a sign that the US government is "totalitarian", but in China, someone would have opened up with 50 cal rounds on them, then charged the next of kin for burial fees.

China isn't a friend. In fact, they are still waging a proxy war against the US and allies. Take Pakistan for example. China handed them nukes. Same with North Korea.

It is only a matter of time before China finds itself in a position to overtly wage war. This would be a blitzkrieg in 24 hours which would make WWII look like a joke. In less than a day, Seoul would be shelled to a crater (just with conventional arms), Taiwan would be "annexed", Signapore would be either annexed or destroyed, and would attack critical economic sites in Japan. Think the US would retaliate with nukes if Tokyo got shelled from offshore navy forces, or hit by MiG long range bombers? Think again.

Of course, our dear stupid government doesn't understand that. China is getting full mineral mining rights in Afghanistan and Iraq, and pretty much the US has been pushed out of the complete Middle East except for UAE and Israel, which is a coup nobody thought could be achieved just a few years ago.

Re:No good can come from this (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38149304)

Tell me about China's invented wars for pure profit, killing thousands.... Or all the south american countries in which China staged coup d'etats in the 60s and 70s.

Please, tell me about all of that, and then tell me about china's illegal imprisonment camps in cuba.

I'd love to hear all that, so I can compare their evil to the human rights champion, the US of A.

Re:No good can come from this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38150148)

Please double-check your definition of totalitarian. China is a lot of things, including abusive and corrupt, but totalitarian is not an accurate way of describing them. Abusing these words makes attempts to highlight real totalitarian regimes less effective.

Re:No good can come from this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38150172)

"The People's Republic of China is a totalitarian state "

And america is a fascist state owned by corporations that want to get rid of our rights (see: SOPA). These days it's hard to tell the difference between a corporate run state and a totalitarian one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act [wikipedia.org]

Re:No good can come from this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38150662)

most of its "private industry" is a facade for their civilian government or military.

There is a hell of a lot of private industry in China and a hell of a lot of entrepreneurs. You're telling me that the guy with the restaurant is a facade for government or military? You must be delirious.

As for the larger companies, whats the difference between a company owned by the government and a government owned by the companies?

Please Clarify Your Post Title (2)

shuttah (2475982) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148308)

Huawei and ZTE have not done any industrial espionage that we know of (or espionage of any kind, for that matter). Nor is the investigation by the House of Representatives’ intelligence committee, in fact, concerned with any espionage done by either Huawei or ZTE. Also, it should be noted that Huawei have opened their hardware to inspection by the British government. Inaccurate post titles like these come at the expense of discussion, since less and less people are actually reading the stories posted here. As was previously posted [slashdot.org] , the concern here is what malevolent capabilities a Huawei network would give groups like the People's Liberation Army with whom they have alleged ties to.

Re:Please Clarify Your Post Title (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38148404)

Are you insane? You know Huawei lost a lawsuit to Cisco about this, right?

Re:Please Clarify Your Post Title (2)

MadMaverick9 (1470565) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148612)

use of their equipment might open U.S. infrastructure to espionage

makes one wonder what U.S. equipment (made by cisco, microsoft et.al.), which is used all over the world, can do for U.S. govt agencies.

anybody remember japan in the 1970s [google.com] ?

Re:Please Clarify Your Post Title (3, Interesting)

shuttah (2475982) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148962)

Interesting.

I don't think the immediate characterization of Huawei as a puppet to Beijing is altogether justified, seeing how here in America we have SPECIFIC branches of the government - like the CIA - making donations to stateside companies - like Facebook.

The CIA donates to a social network (facebook) = China blocks the network (Facebook).

Then America calls it censorship.

But when Beijing donates ($8 Million) to Huawei and America blocks it...

America says it's National Security?

Sounding more like Microsoft! (1)

bogaboga (793279) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148370)

"If you can't beat them, make up frivolous charges against them...that way, you could at least slow them down."

Fact: US technology companies are struggling.
Fact: There is little they can do.
Fact: The US government would like to see this turned around.
Fact: The US government has the means to do something about it.

This sounds like a preface from Microsoft's playbook. That is, "if you cannot beat them, go the courts with frivolous [patent] lawsuits", where you can land some success in as far as slowing them down is concerned.

This is what is happening. The sad thing is that it will fail. My hope is that the US government will gain valuable insights into this kind of behavior and learn from it.

Re:Sounding more like Microsoft! (2, Funny)

boristdog (133725) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148528)

This sounds like a preface from APPLE'S playbook.

FTFY.

Re:Sounding more like Microsoft! (1)

Bucky24 (1943328) | more than 2 years ago | (#38151206)

The Playbook was from RIM, was it not? (sarcasm, folks, I know what parent really meant)

Re:Sounding more like Microsoft! (1)

Cid Highwind (9258) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148742)

Fact: The US government has the means to do something about it.

...but not the willpower.

Hearings and allegations that change nothing are cheap and easy. Unfucking public education would be slow, difficult and expensive. Guess which we'll get.

Industrial espionage (5, Interesting)

girlintraining (1395911) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148478)

Everyone is so concerned about China, but wouldn't you know, France is so well-known for industrial espionage that executives for pharmaceuticals and large companies are told not to use fax machines in hotel rooms because the lines are monitored, or send unencrypted email, etc. Laptops not only aren't allowed to be left unattended, most people in the know won't let sensitive information be left on them -- encrypted or not.

Everyone acts like China invented industrial espionage. Well, they didn't... they're just really bad at it, which is why everyone is noticing them. First rule of effective espionage: Don't suck.

Re:Industrial espionage (2)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148618)

To be fair, most of those practices should be much more prevalent than they are. I mean how many times do customers have to have their identities stolen because of sloppy handling of PII?

Re:Industrial espionage (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38149246)

well do you know how they know the stuff they sell has bugs almost equal to backdoors? well, they cloned and copied ciscos shit 1:1, practically warezed it.

Re:Industrial espionage (1)

sociocapitalist (2471722) | more than 2 years ago | (#38149518)

Do executives (or anyone else) generally send unencrypted mail and leave their laptops unattended (or unsecured) anywhere in the world?

I'd like to see your actual concrete references for France being well known for industrial espionage.

Re:Industrial espionage (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38149766)

I expect all countries to do it... (note: I am not the parent poster)

http://www.france24.com/en/20110104-france-industrial-espionage-economy-germany-russia-china-business

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_espionage#France_and_the_United_States

Re:Industrial espionage (2)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 2 years ago | (#38149910)

France does industrial spying. Chinese firms are more interested in spying on industry AND western gov. There is a big difference. China is in a cold war with the west. France is not in a cold war.

Re:Industrial espionage (1)

girlintraining (1395911) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150806)

There is a big difference. China is in a cold war with the west. France is not in a cold war.

Using that logic, which scenario is "worse"?
a) A well-dressed man steals $1000 from you.
b) A man dressed in rags steals $1000 from you.
c) Doesn't matter. You're still out $1000.

No kidding (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38148484)

Pretty much any major international company understands that if they do business with China they will try to steal information and secrets.

I wouldn't mind even if they were (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38148604)

It's not like the US is completely innocent and doesn't spy on everyone ever.
So there is no difference.

Looks like they are just jealous that they never thought of it first.

Spying, Pffft (2)

NetNinja (469346) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148660)

Everytime I hear a story about the Chinese spying I want to smack the shit out of someone. The U.S. has caused itself so much harm in the outsourcing of every fing thing ever manufactured. The outsourcing of Electronics manufacturing is by far the most damaging thing the U.S. and companies who have looked for cheaper and lax regulatory laws on everything from pay scale to EPA violations.
I won't even get into the discussion of Labor Unions.

I don't want to hear anymore stories about Chinese spying. They have infiltrated just about everything in the U.S.

Where is most of this high tech computer security gear manufactured? Cisco gear is all made in China and don't think they don't have spies working in those other factories that are strewn all over Asia.
The U.S. ships all our used comuter gear all the way to China and then they have people removing the chips and sorting them and then reselling them to other companies namely U.S. contractors who are cheating the system and selling off the shelf chips as hardened components to be used on military systems.

China has taken a 20 to 30 year jump in just military technology alone. They have done this in less than 15 years. Thier submarines, thier Aircraft and now thier Satellitle technology is on par if not better than U.S. systems.

No More Spying Stories!

Intellectual property blablabla... (0)

aaaaaaargh! (1150173) | more than 2 years ago | (#38148676)

"...stealing secrets worth millions of dollars in intellectual property”, said committee chairman Mike Rogers

I stopped reading there. Shove your intellectual property up your ass.

Huawei and Ericsson (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38148704)

I used to work for Ericsson in Sweden, and it was a well know fact that Huawei stole a lot of research material from the company. There was a case were a Chinese employee was caught hard copying (-as in Xerox) several research papers (I don't remember all of it, but I think even the Chinese embassy was involved).

One of the few things Ericsson has going for them is their research (since their services division is a joke and doesn't bring any substantial revenue for the company), but if this continues they will be dead on the water in 10 years time.

Funny thing about all of this is that Ericsson has a research center in China, from where they bring those 'employees' who end up getting the info for Huawei.

Isn't it extremely easy to figure out if this... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38148980)

...is actually true by scanning all the chips and figuring out exactly what they do?
Pretty sure its impossible to hide things in hardware that easily to the point where nobody would notice it.
Can make it extremely complex, but still not impossible.

Also pretty sure this has been done before by people with significantly less resources in order to crack gaming machines and the like.
I remember hearing how 360 was supposedly impossible to crack because it used extremely precise timings or some nonsense in order to prevent alternate routings of current. Not even sure if it was still true, but that's probably as far as you could go.
Creating a physical encryption key + hardware that will only react to the right signal is pretty hard too, without it being very noticeable that its use is for spying or whatever nonsense.

So why are they making a big fuss out of this? They could have been using their own spying stuff against them if it was true, but instead they are throwing a huge fit about it.
So I believe they are just spreading some FUD to slow down sales.

what the hell (1)

nimbius (983462) | more than 2 years ago | (#38149276)

is an "economic secret"?? feels like federal agencies are getting nervous around all the budget cuts that are about to kick in from the super committee failure.

Re:what the hell (1)

sociocapitalist (2471722) | more than 2 years ago | (#38149726)

To me an economic secret is a trade secret that allows a company to manufacture and sell product (or conceivably services) at a level that, should this secret be compromised, would result in a loss of jobs significant enough to impact the economy as a whole.

The US really hates spies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38149550)

The US government intends to maintain its monopoly power of spying on the people of the US.

Check every future upgrade? (1)

sociocapitalist (2471722) | more than 2 years ago | (#38149606)

Even if a review shows that there is currently no cause for alarm any future software upgrade could include backdoors or time bombs.

Besides which, as long as CEOs are willing to sell the company proprietary tech for a big immediate payoff and related bonuses for themselves regardless of how that leaves the company and its employees in the long run then it doesn't make much difference anyway.

This would be different (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38149718)

This would be different from the USA spying on Airbus contracts for aircrafts HOW exactly?

Re:This would be different (1)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150078)

Are you talking about when we were spying on middle east companies and found Airbus offering bribes to them? THAT spying?

this is SO stupid (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38149870)

Of COURSE they are spying. Simply look at what happened with Google. These businesses are owned by the gov. or loyal party members.

Take it a step further. They are dumping solar products on the west, as way to destroy economy. This approach will continue until the west decides to put a stop to this. Basically, USA needs to balance our budget and then raise trade barriers.

What is amazing is that the west has not changed their ways. We are so into greed that we allow this crap. Simple things like insisting that our new upcoming mobile phones need to be built in the west, yet it will not happen. WHy not? Because of GREED.

Huawei is well known to be a spy wing for China (2)

pkphilip (6861) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150336)

The Indian intelligence agency Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) put out a notice in 2010 claiming that Huawei is involved in spying for the Chinese government.
http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2010-05-07/news/27580384_1_chinese-telecom-huawei-technologies-ren-zhengfei [indiatimes.com]

Be carefull what you wish for... (2)

williamyf (227051) | more than 2 years ago | (#38151336)

Huawei has been asking for some time for a public inquiry about these alledged ties with the red army, istead of being stonewalled in their initiatives with what they call excuses.

Having said that, be carefull what you wish for, now they have the govt probe they requested, if the allegations are found to be true, all hell will break lose.

The probe is not only to see if chinese makers are spying, but also to see if the relevant intel agencies in the us are capable of detecting the spionage, as well as countering it.

Full idsclosure: I worked in Huawei for a year.

Clarification: Not many people know, Huawei does not trade in any stock exchange (so, less scrutiny and compliance burden, they have IIRC KPMG auditing their stuff, but the stuff is never published), but, allegedly, there is no govt participation in it. On the other hand, ZTE trades in some exchanges (mainly shangai), so there is more transarency, but the chinese govt. owns something along the lines of 20~30% of the shares.

China takes over the world (2)

WaffleMonster (969671) | more than 2 years ago | (#38151398)

I have it on good authority the chinese shall soon be seeking to propogate an order 66 TLV throughout BGP after which control of the minds of the entire worlds population are instantly placed under direct control of the chinese empire.

TSMC has been secretly injecting mind control antennas in a secret metal layer of every chip they've stamped over the last decade just waiting for the command... Huawei, ZTE and Lenovo are just the tip of the iceburg. We are already doomed..their antennas are in every recent device with a processor on the planet. All of the tools that can be used to detect them were the first to have been compromised.

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