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Nokia-Siemens Axing 17,000 Positions

Unknown Lamer posted more than 2 years ago | from the competition-is-tough dept.

Networking 87

alphadogg writes with troubling news for the network hardware joint-venture between Nokia and Siemens. Quoting the article: "Struggling network infrastructure vendor Nokia Siemens Networks is planning to cut 17,000 jobs worldwide, as it aims to cut $1.35 billion from its costs by the end of 2013, the company said Wednesday. About 23% of the company's 74,000 employees will be laid off. The 4 1/2-year-old joint venture between Nokia and Siemens has been struggling to compete with Swedish Ericsson and Chinese vendor Huawei. Parent company Nokia's ongoing problems have made Nokia Siemens' situation even more difficult."

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Missionary? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38150140)

Please tell me the missionary won't be axed?

Re:Missionary? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38150228)

No they're axing 17k positions. Maybe it is like when an illiterate nigger speaks their typical gutter pidgin and wants to ax you a question.

Goodbye virginity! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38150744)

23% of the company's 74,000 employees will get laid? I like my odds!

Re:Missionary? (0)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 2 years ago | (#38151272)

Maybe it is like when an illiterate nigger speaks their typical gutter pidgin and wants to ax you a question.

Illiterate niggers like Geoffrey Chaucer, you mean? (See The Miller's Tale for a use in the first stanza)

Re:Missionary? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38155170)

Maybe it is like when an illiterate nigger speaks their typical gutter pidgin and wants to ax you a question.

Illiterate niggers like Geoffrey Chaucer, you mean? (See The Miller's Tale for a use in the first stanza)

Yes, exactly! Everyone knows that when uneducated street thugs with criminal records who never met their fathers and wear pants 3 sizes too large and never heard of a belt say "ax you a question" they are actually making a clever allusion to Chaucer. I mean that's so obvious I have no idea why you felt a need to point it out.

See folks this is the deep denial of political correctness, right here.

Re:Missionary? (5, Funny)

The Askylist (2488908) | more than 2 years ago | (#38151056)

You could at least have said "Oh no - they're Finnished" in a first post!

Re:Missionary? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38151244)

Virgin moderator apparently.

Re:Missionary? (1)

DrJimbo (594231) | more than 2 years ago | (#38156374)

Virgin moderator apparently.

Those virgins can be so unruly. They need moderation.

Probe (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38150142)

They might like this...

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/11/23/1331209/us-government-probes-huawei-and-zte

Where will most of the jobs be cut? (4, Interesting)

KermodeBear (738243) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150178)

Any idea on which countries will have the most positions lost? The article didn't mention this bit. Really is too bad, this is not a great time to be out of a job.

Re:Where will most of the jobs be cut? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38150546)

Hi, European NSN employee here. The company is selling or putting into "permanent maintenance mode" basically all of its R&D business units with the exception of CDMA/LTE Mobile Broadband unit. This means that Packet Networks (Carrier Ethernet + MPLS), Optical Networks and Microwave Transport are being cut. Hopefully the B.U. will be sold (it already happened with Microwave Transport) and the engineers won'tl be fired.
At the cost of sounding vendicative and resented (I confess, I am, a little bit), let me say that NSN has been a complete mess since day 1 (april 2007). We have been struggling from day one with bad management, bad planning, bad product line definition, bad choices, millions and millions of money wasted with idiotic things, while headcount in Europe continously got less and less (and India and China grew) to be more competitive with Huawei, Ericcson, etc... And even in all of that, we did some excellent products.
However NSN grew from 60000 (Nokia Networks + Siemens Networks merge) to 74000 with Motorola Networks acquisition *even if right after 1 month from the merge they started headcount reduction and voluntary leave plans*. We have been struggling psychologically with that for 4 years. It seems that it will be over soon.

mod the parent up (1)

higuita (129722) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150634)

Out of mod points, but this one needs it

Re:Where will most of the jobs be cut? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38150862)

Hope you all find work with more productive endeavors soon. Maybe even with some of the competitors listed in the article. It is always painful to hear about poorly directed labor resources, but the sooner a shift is made, the sooner a more sustainable allocation of labor can happen and the sooner more wealth can be created. Good luck to all those who were fired in finding new and better work.

Re:Where will most of the jobs be cut? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38151490)

while headcount in Europe continously got less and less

Mind you, there are locations in Europe, that are continously growing. Or at least were growing up till now.

Re:Where will most of the jobs be cut? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38151714)

Another European NSN employee here. I think the official line is that all fixed network business is for the can. Only mobile going forward. What that means for those of us not in those businesses but still in 'high cost' countries isn't clear yet.

But I agree that it has been a clusterfuck since day one.

Re:Where will most of the jobs be cut? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38152380)

Think about it like this: If you know you have a lot of good engineers, and it's just upper management that's crap, how about getting all the competent people together, make a new company without the idiocy, and take one of those parts that they drop. (Hey, they will throw it away anyway, so they can be happy not to be forced to pay those workers 6 months of salary to be able to throw them out. That alone should suffice by far, and they can't expect any further payments.)

If you know you were just held down, then being free to create your awesome ideas should result in really great products, no?
I'd do it. If only to have a chance to keep my job.

Re:Where will most of the jobs be cut? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38152608)

Other EU employee here. Sorry, but not all is going maintenance, some strategic business lines are getting extra fund and attention. Same for some countries. Additionally, we finally acknowledge who are our customers (telcos) and who is not (almost everyone else).

Where most of the cuts are is where the product lines are. All these things we will stop developing will mean headcount reduction. For what I know, in europe, it means portugal, finland, germany, poland. Pretty sure India will suffer as well. No idea about other countries. We can expect voluntary packages almost everywhere

NSN gave a chance to many products, and was extremely patient with some that never lived to expectations. My little finger is telling me that there will be more OEM agreements in the near future so that we keep a consistent offering. I never had to complain too much about that. We often manage to add value to the base product with some productized adapters, allowing faster and safer delivery. And this at a marginal cost.

Finally, there has clearly been struggles, poor decisions, and our management structure is changing and will changes again. But NSN has significant achievements, for example: it is hosting networks representing 650+ Mio users, has the strongest mobile broadband offering, and a (finally) good delivery team when it comes to custom services

nitpick. Drrr took ur jeebs (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38153310)

When they hire people it's said they 'create' jobs. So it's only fair to call this 'destroying' jobs.

Re:Where will most of the jobs be cut? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38154978)

As a US NSN (former Motorola Solutions//Networks) employee, I'm very curious what this voluntary leave plan is, because nothing has been communicated to us.

I personally enjoy the fact that they scheduled a global chat discussing the layoff forThanksgiving.

People are not the largest cost of doing business (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38150190)

Unless perhaps you're looking at a CEO's salary, there are other areas besides HR that cost a company money. Add to that:

The 4 1/2-year-old joint venture between Nokia and Siemens has been struggling to compete with Swedish Ericsson and Chinese vendor Huawei.

Equipment and facilities can be purchased or leased again. But innovation and attracting and retaining key talent is priceless. What are they losing in order to save their budget?

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (5, Insightful)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150272)

Equipment and facilities can be purchased or leased again. But innovation and attracting and retaining key talent is priceless. What are they losing in order to save their budget?

Who cares? It's more important that they keep their profits high for each quarter, so the CEO can get a bigger bonus. Why should the CEO care about his company's long-term future?

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38150316)

Who cares? It's more important that they keep their profits high for each quarter, so the CEO can get a bigger bonus. Why should the CEO care about his company's long-term future?

Exactly. There's no point worrying about the long term when the government can put your company out of business overnight with some new law or regulation.

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (0)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150434)

Exactly. That's why we need to just get rid of government altogether, so we don't have that problem! Then everything can be like it was in the 50s, when there was no government.

Moron.

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (-1, Troll)

0123456 (636235) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150520)

Then everything can be like it was in the 50s, when there was no government.

If I remember correctly, the US government as a percentage of GDP was significantly smaller in the 50s than today, and most of today's regulatory agencies did not exist.

Do you want to explain how a company can plan years into the future when the EPA can declare tomorrow that oxygen is a pollutant? Where the Fed can cut interest rates to 0% or raise them to 10%? Where Congress can pass a new minimum wage or new tax that makes your business model unsustainable?

Even the Glorious People's Soviet Five Year Plans rarely worked and there they controlled the plan, the country and the fiddled statistics used to prove they were a success.

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (5, Insightful)

jpapon (1877296) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150750)

You apparently see government as a destabilizing force in the market, causing uncertainty.

I would say that government is actually the key stabilizing force in the market.

Where the Fed can cut interest rates to 0% or raise them to 10%?

This argument is silly, the Fed's chief goal is market stability, and sustained growth.

Do you want to explain how a company can plan years into the future when the EPA can declare tomorrow that oxygen is a pollutant?

The EPA is around to protect the environment; if your business model requires you destroying the environment to succeed, then you need to deal with the fact that the general populace doesn't want to sacrifice their breathable air so you can turn a profit.

Where Congress can pass a new minimum wage or new tax that makes your business model unsustainable?

If your business model requires paying workers wages that keep them below the poverty line, then you shouldn't (and shouldn't be allowed to) put it into practice. It seems like you would argue that slavery is good business model, if only the damn government would stay out of your way.

The success of your business shouldn't be valued over the success, happiness, and prosperity of society as a whole, sorry.

You don't know what you're talking about (0, Troll)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 2 years ago | (#38151420)

This argument is silly, the Fed's chief goal is market stability, and sustained growth.

No you simply have no idea what you are talking about, and have contradicted yourself within a single sentence but are nevertheless quite happy to expound your ignorance to the rest of the world.

Go watch Alfred Bartlett.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY [youtube.com]

Watch all of the sections from start to finish.

This could not be described as stability [yahoo.com]

Re:You don't know what you're talking about (1)

jpapon (1877296) | more than 2 years ago | (#38156354)

I didn't contradict myself. Stability must be defined as sustained growth, since it must match the sustained growth of the population.

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (1)

Shatrat (855151) | more than 2 years ago | (#38153012)

The EPA is around to protect the environment

And the TSA is around to protect us from terrorists. I agree with most of what you are saying, but your logic isn't going to convince anyone.

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38155740)

I agree with most of what you are saying, but your logic isn't going to convince anyone.

So what convinced *you*, if not his logic?

Simplistic to say gov't (de)stabalizing (1)

perpenso (1613749) | more than 2 years ago | (#38153546)

You apparently see government as a destabilizing force in the market, causing uncertainty. I would say that government is actually the key stabilizing force in the market.

That is a very simplistic outlook.
Good governmental policies implemented by good government officials can be stabilizing.
Good or bad governmental policies implemented by bad government officials can be destabilizing.

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (1)

Syberz (1170343) | more than 2 years ago | (#38157342)

Oh noes! Congress might raise minimum wage! Here's an interesting factoid:

Average worker hourly rate in 1965: 19.61$
Average worker hourly rate in 2007: 19.71$

Average CEO hourly rate in 1965: 490.31$
Average CEO hourly rate in 2007: 5419.97$

You know what, I don't think that congress raising minimum wage is where we should focus our attention...

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (2)

P-niiice (1703362) | more than 2 years ago | (#38151876)

I remember correctly, the US government as a percentage of GDP was significantly smaller in the 50s than today, and most of today's regulatory agencies did not exist."

Taxes on the rich were far higher too. Heh.

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (2)

MyLongNickName (822545) | more than 2 years ago | (#38152258)

And they had a ton more loopholes. Hence they paid less than they do today:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2012/assets/hist01z1.xls [whitehouse.gov]

In 1950, the US spent $42,562 million off of a $293 Billion GDP or 14.5% of GDP
In 1955, the US spent $68,444 million off of a $415 Billion GDP or 16.5% of GDP
In 2010, the US spent $3,456,213 million off of a $14.5T GDP or 23.7% of GDP

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (2)

ADRA (37398) | more than 2 years ago | (#38152692)

It was 18% in 1995, and it was 17% in 2000, 19% in 2007, and now its 23.7... hmm. What happened between 2007-2010 which could have possibly caused such a substantial increase in gov spending against the GDP in the lest few years? I don't have the stats, but I'm sure you'll see similar blips around 1927-30's and during WW2. All I'm getting at is looking at raw stats without context doesn't give the whole picture of what the gov was spending their money on, or why.

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (1)

MyLongNickName (822545) | more than 2 years ago | (#38153866)

Based on the figures you provide, taxes are still somewhat higher or about the same as the 50's as a percent of GDP. This supports the fact that although there were high marginal tax rates that there were significant tax loopholes to avoid these rates. As recently as the 70s, there were ways to get writeoffs higher than the amount of money spent. In the 80s, almost all of those loopholes were shut down. So, it is not accurate to compare tax rates of today with those of 60 years ago.

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (4, Informative)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 2 years ago | (#38151938)

You're a complete moron.

1) Taxes were much, much higher in the 50s than there are now. Go look it up. The 1% paid 90+%.

2) With all the spending on the Cold War, there's no way the USG was much smaller as a percentage of GDP than now.

3) The EPA is there to prevent pollution from making this place like China. I guess you'd prefer living in Beijing where you need to wear a respirator when you're outside?

4) The Fed has been around since the early 20th century. If you have a complaint with them, but you're saying the 50s were great, then you're obviously a complete idiot as nothing has changed since then WRT the Fed.

5) Congress has been able to pass new taxes since Congress was invented, you moron.

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (2)

MyLongNickName (822545) | more than 2 years ago | (#38152178)

You flame but you don't respond to what the poster actually said. Let's look at white house data: http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2012/assets/hist01z1.xls [whitehouse.gov]

In 1950, the US spent $42,562 million off of a $293 Billion GDP or 14.5% of GDP
In 1955, the US spent $68,444 million off of a $415 Billion GDP or 16.5% of GDP
In 2010, the US spent $3,456,213 million off of a $14.5T GDP or 23.7% of GDP

So, sorry. federal spending is MUCH higher as a percentage of GDP than in the 50's.

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38150834)

Who exactly is the moron? Someone who complains about a specific type of government intrusion, or the one who responds by taking it to the illogical extreme (get rid of government).

It is possible to criticize government actions from a position other than Pure Anarchy.

And there was no government in the 50s? WTF does that even mean? Are you autistic?

STFU, you stupid, ignorant, sexless geek filth. Seriously, you are dumber than a rock.

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 2 years ago | (#38151964)

You're the moron. He's complaining about the government being able to pass new laws or regulations; there's no government in human history that doesn't have those powers. That's the entire function of government: to pass new laws.

Go fuck off you coward.

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38151026)

Exactly. That's why we need to just get rid of government altogether, so we don't have that problem! Then everything can be like it was in the 50s, when there was no government.

Moron.

Don't sign your posts! :)

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38156990)

What the hell has the US Government to do with this post, you self-centered american ....!??? The world doesn't go around USA, you prick!!!

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 2 years ago | (#38159008)

Stop being such a rude asshole. The OP obviously was one of these Teabaggers who complains about the size of government, and would really prefer if there was almost no government at all, so I was just pointing out that back in the 50s, when most Americans think everything was rosy and wonderful, our government really wasn't much different from what it is now, and in fact the income tax rates then were far higher than they are now.

I certainly don't see any non-Americans complaining about their government making "some new law or regulation"; most Europeans seem to understand perfectly well that you need government regulation to keep corporations from becoming too big and abusive or monopolistic, and to prevent things like the financial meltdown we just experienced over here.

Finally, this is a USA-centric message board. It's located in the USA, the majority of the members here are Americans, and the language used is English (and it's pretty obvious most of them use American English, though there's a good number of UK English users too). If you don't like that, I invite you to go start your own country-specific Slashdot.

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38150444)

Who cares? It's more important that they keep their profits high for each quarter, so the CEO can get a bigger bonus. Why should the CEO care about his company's long-term future?

Exactly. There's no point worrying about the long term when the government can put your company out of business overnight with some new law or regulation.

Especially when that government is perfectly willing to make sure that you, as the CEO, walk away with more money than you will ever be able to spend (and making sure that it remains untaxed, at all, ever).

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (1)

jazman_777 (44742) | more than 2 years ago | (#38151606)

More than that, why should the shareholders--the frickin' owners--care? They bail at the slightest hint of decline.

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38150290)

Slashing people shows bankers a willingness to be ruthless assholes so they will then loan money. I've seen various solutions, none that do much good.

In one case I know of the Nokia cellphone side gutted the staff of a critical infrastructure product that was intended to bring up a US data center.

They 'laid off' everyone with zero notice and pretty much told to go home.

The way they terminated those employees is what rankled. They got the standard Nokia severance.

A friend in that group went on to make more money, less bureaucracy, better health care and much better job security and they didn't have to get any windows phone shit on them.

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38150762)

They 'laid off' everyone with zero notice and pretty much told to go home.

The way they terminated those employees is what rankled. They got the standard Nokia severance.

I will bite. As a Nokia Employee for the last 4 years("the hard years"), I can tell you that getting laid off from Nokia is a good deal.

I would prefer to be laid off immediately with an amazing severance. Being told that you are being let go and hanging around is a real morale killer for yourself and the remaining workers.

A friend in that group went on to make more money, less bureaucracy, better health care and much better job security and they didn't have to get any windows phone shit on them.

Nice for him(or they?). I'm sure having Nokia on his resume helped him land that job. I'm not quite sure I understand though why this is relevant since Nokia pays well, has very good healthcare and the job security was great until the company fell on hard times. Business is a competition and that secure job might not be so pretty in a few years.

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38150868)

Slashing people shows bankers a willingness to be ruthless assholes so they will then loan money. I've seen various solutions, none that do much good.

In one case I know of the Nokia cellphone side gutted the staff of a critical infrastructure product that was intended to bring up a US data center.

They 'laid off' everyone with zero notice and pretty much told to go home.

The way they terminated those employees is what rankled. They got the standard Nokia severance.

A friend in that group went on to make more money, less bureaucracy, better health care and much better job security and they didn't have to get any windows phone shit on them.

How does standard nokia severance suck? how about switching that to one months notice that you're expected to work through.. ? that's the situation a lot of folk who were doing the actual Nokia products were put into this year(you thought they code their shit by them selfs? then they wouldn't have been burning billions so fast!).

A lot of these nsn jobs are just triple-redundant regional office staff, assembly drones etc..

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150386)

look, if you got 70k people.. then yes, it is a significant cost of doing business. a very significant cost.
at least they're looking like they'll get severance, but it's a lot of folk outside those that also lose(have lost) jobs. the performance of nsn hasn't exactly been stellar, I suppose they knew that too.

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (1)

Talderas (1212466) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150430)

$1.35B / 17,000 = ~$79,500 annual cost per employee.

Assuming those cost savings are purely employee related of course... salaries, benefits, training, etc. Easily can come out to $80k for a single employee.

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38151090)

There is no 'key talent' in NSN otherwise they wouldnt be in this pickle... Source: Post by Coward above... "We have been struggling from day one with bad management, bad planning, bad product line definition, bad choices, millions and millions of money wasted with idiotic things" This bonehead should be working to fix these problems not sitting on this board complaining...

Re:People are not the largest cost of doing busine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38151364)

An army with crap generals and commanders isn't going to win wars even if it had great soldiers.

That's why leadership is important, and arguably more important than great engineering talent.

Lots of idiots want to be leaders and many get the job.

Fuck you M$!!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38150384)

This is all the fault of the M$ plant Elop. Dirty fucker won't be happy until the company is ruined then "conveniently" bought by M$ upon which he will receive a huge golden parachute and a cushy position back at M$. Don't believe that Qt won't be axed soon as well.

Re:Fuck you M$!!! (1)

INeededALogin (771371) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150782)

This is all the fault of the M$ plant Elop.

Elop has no power over NSN. It is run by a separate board and CEO.

Re:Fuck you M$!!! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38151684)

Eliop is the boss of NSN's key shareholder. He hasn't shown much interest; his priority is clearly disembowelling Nokia; but he is the only person who could make a serious decision to actually fund NSN properly and has clearly not yet decided to do so.

Re:Fuck you M$!!! (1)

zlogic (892404) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150816)

You do understand that Nokia Siemens Networks makes telco equipment such as antennas and switches? None of which runs Windows, except for (perhaps) monitoring software.

Re:Fuck you M$!!! (1)

ChipMonk (711367) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150880)

I agree in part (at least with the sentiment, if perhaps not the expression), but don't think the EU or its remnants won't move to block such a MicroNokia merger. The EU already hates Microsoft, and is not afraid to put M$ on a short leash, unlike the US DoJ kid-gloves approach to M$'s criminal behavior.

Qt? (2, Interesting)

Prien715 (251944) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150406)

Nokia bought TrollTech some years ago and while they didn't fire a bunch of employees after their switch to Windows Mobile, I'm guessing with this move TrollTech's development efforts will be harder to justify. It's unfortunate really.

On the positive side, unemployment here in Norway is below 4% at the moment. And maybe the strategic direction of Qt will go back to...devices people actually have.

Re:Qt? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38150492)

Nokia Siemens Networks has nothing to do with QT which seems to be the future of Nokia low end phones.

Re:Qt? (1)

Lunix Nutcase (1092239) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150628)

I would think they aren't related since QuickTime (QT) is an Apple product. Oh you meant Qt the C++ framework.

Re:Qt? (1)

rzr (898397) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150818)

I'll Will ask a nokia representative for Qt on WP7 tomorrow , but who cares ? -- http://rzr.online.fr/q/qt [online.fr]

Re:Qt? (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 2 years ago | (#38157504)

heyy razor.

haven't you noticed already that nothing nokia says about qt has actually happened 12 months down the line like they said?

that said, I don't think qt has future on WP, on the other hand.. qt has a future - and is still very much a current tech.

Re:Qt? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38159876)

I can confirm now that Qt is not a dead nokia project see you next year !

and about wp7 dispite they are calling it an open platform
the stuff is closed to most technology
which is not controlled by you know who ...

forget about openstandards on this platform ... what a surprise !
--
http://rzr.online.fr/q/csharp

Re:Qt? (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38150870)

Technically correct. Dying alone work for you?

Re:Qt? (0)

blind biker (1066130) | more than 2 years ago | (#38151484)

What the fuck has Nokia Siemens Networks to do with Qt, Windows Mobile or TrollTech?

Re:Qt? (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 2 years ago | (#38157592)

What the fuck has Nokia Siemens Networks to do with Qt, Windows Mobile or TrollTech?

money. same answer to "what the fuck has nokia mobile phones to do with nsn".

The N9 is Meego/QT based (1)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 2 years ago | (#38153506)

You can develop in Python too if you want. Hell, you can write bash scripts if you want... Which makes it an intriguing multi purpose mobile computing device which can talk to anything.

You just can't buy one if you are in UK, Germany, USA etc. Wonder why.

When the bell tolls (0)

arcite (661011) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150446)

It tolls for thee!

IT is not immune (0)

Oswald McWeany (2428506) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150514)

Everyone is saying IT is immune from the economy. This should be a wakeup call for all those feeling snug.

Our sector can and will get hit too- especially the longer the economic doldrums and uncertainty lasts.

Re:IT is not immune (4, Insightful)

scamper_22 (1073470) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150742)

"Everyone is saying IT is immune from the economy"

who is saying that?
The only people who say that are those who profit from saying it. Educational institutions who want more business. CEOs and others who want more cheap labor. Governments who have become dependent on infinite economic growth to fuel their spending.

Talk to regular people, regular engineers... and we all say IT is just as vulnerable. With free trade and a globally educated work force... most of IT is as expendable as manual labor is. Sure if you're in the top 1% of your field, you might always have a job...but that's pretty much true of any active field.

Re:IT is not immune (1)

owlstead (636356) | more than 2 years ago | (#38160888)

That's the point: in IT, everybody is in that 1% :)

Re:IT is not immune (1)

LordNimon (85072) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150748)

Everyone is saying IT is immune from the economy.

What? I don't know anyone who says that.

Re:IT is not immune (1)

Oswald McWeany (2428506) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150832)

Read slashdot. Everyday I read comments from people on here saying how great IT is; how we don't *understand* the occupy movement because IT isn't hurt by the economy, and how the down economy isn't touching them because they are in IT and how many head-hunters rang them up asking for their resume.

We may be less affected than other industries- but it does hit home with us too.

Re:IT is not immune (-1, Troll)

MysteriousPreacher (702266) | more than 2 years ago | (#38150942)

That's not quite the same as the foolish bravado you claimed to be the majority view. I reckon that you're just back hone from snorting coke from the erect dick of a horse.

Hey, did you know that everyone says that you've been up to some pretty odd equine/cocaine shenanigans? Not judging, just saying.

Re:IT is not immune (1)

Oswald McWeany (2428506) | more than 2 years ago | (#38151346)

Thank you Mr. Pedant.

If you spend any time on Slashdot you will see it is the majority view on here.

Re:IT is not immune (1)

MysteriousPreacher (702266) | more than 2 years ago | (#38151530)

I've been around on Slashdot long enough, and I really do not see evidence to justify the the claim that "everyone" thinks as you suggested. That's not being pedantic, rather it is calling you on your hyperbole. I believe that some idiots and naifs do think that IT is immune from economic reality. I just don't think it's a majority, let alone a sizable one.

Your alleged appreciation of horse dongs as an ideal cocaine delivery system is now being mentioned in a second post.

Re:IT is not immune (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38157176)

People only seem to only keep track of ideas and values that correlate with their own!

That's why you only see/read people saying that, because your view is the same...but that actually is not true in the real world.

People who really understand how everything works don't really "hang-out" in slashdot, so that affirmation is basically null.

Re:IT is not immune (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38151814)

This is the problem with a news site "for nerds"- a certain % of the nerd population tend to be juvenile and pedantic with no conversation or logic skills.

But sure throw out a straw man won't you.

Re:IT is not immune (1)

MysteriousPreacher (702266) | more than 2 years ago | (#38152046)

Yeah, Slashdot is a pseudonymous site that is read regularly by a minority in the IT business, and of that group, a far smaller percentage would bother posting. Even if we one accepts that the majority of posters view the IT industry the way far too many did the property market some years back, what does that mean in the grand scheme of things. Most of the people I know are working their arses off. We know that this would be a shitty time to lose a job. Even if in a "secure" job, only an arrogant nutter would assume that IT can magically ride out a pretty serious downturn unscathed.

Re:IT is not immune (1)

CadentOrange (2429626) | more than 2 years ago | (#38157060)

We don't understand the occupy movement because the occupy movement don't even understand themselves. It's got nothing to do with being smug about how recession proof IT is, because anybody with two functioning brain cells will tell you that it's not.

Re:IT is not immune (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38157032)

Everyone is saying IT is immune from the economy. .

Who is that ignorant about how the economy works to say that? The economy is "by-product" of the commercial activity of people and businesses...and IT is an industry made of several businesses....

This last years, it seems that the primary attention is towards the economy growth, when the priority is and always will be the businesses and people, because it's the only source of economy growth...businesses growth, economy growth, not the other way around...That's why everything is on it's path to end...and eventually a new Financial System will be put in place, that will stop people that don't work to get wealthy through others that do!

Elop MS - SM Pole (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38150534)

ELOP-POLE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impalement

SM - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadomasochism
Sadomasochism broadly refers to the receiving of pleasure—often sexual—from acts involving the infliction or reception of pain or humiliation.

MS - http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=MICROSOFT
Organisation bent on world domination masquerading as a software company.

YOU ASKED FOR IT, IDIOTS

Oh dear (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38150838)

Sorry, finns
  - a swede

Re:Oh dear (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38153112)

Whilst there's still quite a number of Finns working for Nokia Siemens Networks (though surprisingly few; lots were fired when the Germans couldn't be touched) the interesting thing is that even Nokia has not really been a Finnish company for ages. Most of the decline has happened since it was bought out by Americans.

Re:Oh dear (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38156144)

That's true too, but it still has the Finnish seed. Just like how pizza is ubiquitous food, it's still an Italian one. Actually it's just fun to continue the tradition of finns and swedes mocking each other.

Re:Oh dear (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 2 years ago | (#38157606)

Whilst there's still quite a number of Finns working for Nokia Siemens Networks (though surprisingly few; lots were fired when the Germans couldn't be touched) the interesting thing is that even Nokia has not really been a Finnish company for ages. Most of the decline has happened since it was bought out by Americans.

nokia also pays quite not so much taxes to finland as it used to.
through taxes of wages though, sure, quite a lot still. but a lot less than what it used to.

finnish government subsidies their research still in the old proportions though. which is sort of funny. or sad.

Troll time! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38152792)

"Axing them what?"

R&D in Greece (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38156352)

There's a large R&D department in Greece as well. Given the current state of the economy there, any employees laid off will have a very hard time recovering.
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