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China Wants Cyber Crisis Hotline

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the hello-we're-hacking-you dept.

China 58

An anonymous reader writes "China should look at establishing a cyber crisis hotline with the United States, according to a Chinese newspaper seen as a window into official thinking. Discussions about a crisis hotline might seem an obvious first step in improving relations. But if it's a sign the Chinese government is beginning to think about how to coordinate a rapid, unified response to cyber emergencies, then it is an extremely important one."

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Why? (4, Insightful)

jgotts (2785) | more than 2 years ago | (#38220090)

Why should the US government aid the Chinese surveillance state any more than it already does? If there is hacktivism going on against China then so be it. China would do well freeing its political prisoners, such as the Nobel Prize winner Liu Xiaobo, and then it can ask for cyber help from the US.

Re:Why? (1)

masternerdguy (2468142) | more than 2 years ago | (#38220134)

It gives the USA free surveillance on China. Go USA!

Re:Why? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38220306)

It gives the USA the illusion of free surveillance on China. Go USA!

FTFY.

Re:Why? (2)

Fluffeh (1273756) | more than 2 years ago | (#38220838)

It gives the USA free surveillance on China. Go USA!

A window may be gazed through in both directions. This isn't about China asking for help so much as China asking to be let inside to explore and stake things out - under the pretense of coming inside to play.

Re:Why? (1)

Sabathius (566108) | about 2 years ago | (#38225850)

...or let them know that we are about to launch the missiles when they attempt to hack the Pentagon again.

Re:Why? (-1, Flamebait)

Hentes (2461350) | more than 2 years ago | (#38220824)

such as the Nobel Prize winner Liu Xiaobo

He isn't a Nobel Prize winner, but a Nobel Peace Prize winner, which is a meaningless title.

Re:Why? (5, Insightful)

timeOday (582209) | more than 2 years ago | (#38221226)

I don't see why you interpret this as a US-based helpdesk China could call for assistance.

I interpret it more like the cold-war Moscow/Washington "red telephone," the idea being that if bilateral conflict seems at risk of spiraling out of control, there is some mechanism to communicate and hopefully pull back from the brink of mutual harm.

Re:Why? (1)

AssholeMcGee (2521806) | more than 2 years ago | (#38223418)

So if you live in China, or you are Chinese living in the U.S and talk shit about China's leaders the U.S. can help China's government track you down and punish the offenders?? Or is this related to spyware attacks, and hackers? Not sure what to make of this... The U.S has a boat load of ways to track countries, this agreement does not really do anything for U.S surveillance on China or China's Internet!!!!! Come on now people!!! You know that with the kind of resources the U.S has they do not need agreements to track anyone, or any country..

Re:Why? (2)

cavreader (1903280) | more than 2 years ago | (#38223842)

This is not what the proposed hot line is for. Not even close. Any priority bilateral communications between countries used to head off knee jerk or excessive actions due to perceived threats should be encouraged. Even if that communication channel does not solve the problem it is better than nothing. Or maybe you think we should rely on the UN to mediate these issues?

Re:Why? (1)

lexsird (1208192) | about 2 years ago | (#38226018)

Why? Because we are in the "We're evil and we suck" club now with them. If you haven't noticed, we are in the "bad guys" now.

You can't trust the Chinese (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38220100)

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Those slanted, droopy eyes, and thousands of pirated dvds conceal a secret as dark as their hair.

The Chinese are a simple but bloodthristy people, eager for control and to advance their islamofascist goals.

It's going to take a patriot like Ron Paul to finally bomb these human rats into submission.

Re:You can't trust the Chinese (0)

Xaedalus (1192463) | more than 2 years ago | (#38220242)

Okay, yeah, this is a troll, but this is a damned funny troll. Good job!

Re:You can't trust the Chinese (0)

ThatsMyNick (2004126) | more than 2 years ago | (#38220738)

I second that. To hell with mod points.

Re:You can't trust the Chinese (1)

Synerg1y (2169962) | more than 2 years ago | (#38220772)

Outside of the troll like presentation, he has a point, China would not report its top secret cyber attacks against the states on this call line, and when they happen they'll just point back at the call line and irresponsible Americans who did not call in :)

Old News (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38220106)

This is not anything new. I heard about china wanting to do this about 10 years ago. Nothing to see here, move along.

Good Intelligence Source (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38220114)

And a hotline for when the U.S. is under cyber attack by China would be useful in assessing how successful the attack is going, and how it should be modified.

Of course, it is also possible it could be used for good.

Re:Good Intelligence Source (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | more than 2 years ago | (#38220138)

and that is all they will need to send the troops / bombs in as a cyber attack is a act of war.

Re:Good Intelligence Source (2)

Wyatt Earp (1029) | more than 2 years ago | (#38220692)

Its also a way to mitigate the US launching SLBMs at China in retaliation for cyber war.

The Chinese will try and talk down the National Command Authority.

Re:Good Intelligence Source (2)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#38220756)

And a hotline for when the U.S. is under cyber attack by China would be useful in assessing how successful the attack is going, and how it should be modified.

Of course, it is also possible it could be used for good.

Like a Hotline to Lord Voldemort for every time Harry Potter suffers one of those headaches.

"Hello, Lord Voldemore speaking. ... What do you mean you can see me in your dreams?!? And people call me sick!"

Re:Good Intelligence Source (2)

Sulphur (1548251) | more than 2 years ago | (#38220938)

Of course, it is also possible it could be used for good.

Suppose someone cyber attacks the U.S. and spoofs that they are China. Good communication might help sort it out.

With all that China has done towards the US... (4, Insightful)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 2 years ago | (#38220222)

...their government departments(including nominally private organizations like Huawei [businessweek.com] ) and any company's assets within China all deserve to be compromised.

Of course, this won't sit well with the China apologists that will (inevitably) modbomb this - just that China gets too many passes than it really deserves.

Re:With all that China has done towards the US... (4, Insightful)

LordLucless (582312) | more than 2 years ago | (#38220492)

just that China gets too many passes than it really deserves.

Depends what you mean by "deserves". It get passes because it's large, rich, and still growing. It gets them because the US is afraid of pissing it off. It's pretty much the same reason the US has received special consideration from so many other governments in the past. As far as "deserves" (a subjective judgement) can be objectively analyzed, it deserves them because it is sufficiently large and powerful to demand them - which is all that matters when it comes to international politics.

Re:With all that China has done towards the US... (1)

toutankh (1544253) | more than 2 years ago | (#38221654)

Totally agree. One might also add that in many places, a common subjective judgement would be that anything US-governement related deserves to be compromised.

Re:With all that China has done towards the US... (1)

ShovelingSnw (2521642) | more than 2 years ago | (#38222242)

China deserves to be compromised.

Re:With all that China has done towards the US... (2)

toutankh (1544253) | more than 2 years ago | (#38222544)

I won't disagree on that, but please take some perspective. First, why would I care about what China has done towards the US in particular? Why not consider all other countries? I'll let you count how many other countries China has invaded over the last, say,10 years, and compare it to how many other countries the US have invaded over the last 10 years, under a number of fallacious pretexts and while blatantly lying (e.g. about chemical weapons or WMD). You might also want to have a look at the US embargo on Iraq in the 90's and at its human cost.

If I were picky I would also add that the US cast the first stone when they supported Taiwan then when the CIA started to get involved in Tibet, about which nobody cared at that time, also awaking public opinion in favour of Tibet and against China. Of course you can probably go back even further but that's pointless, the bottom line is, from an external perspective the US are bad guys too.

Now don't get me wrong, I believe that many things are very wrong in China. But if China deserves to be compromised, tell me, what do the US deserve?

Re:With all that China has done towards the US... (3, Insightful)

ShovelingSnw (2521642) | more than 2 years ago | (#38221916)

China suppresses the response to its aggressions using passive aggressive tactics. Like someone bumps into you, that could be a fight, but instead they smile. And then the next time they see you, they bump into you again, and again they smile and pat you on the back. It gives you a weird feeling, but you aren't willing to start a fight over a misunderstanding. And yet again, it keeps happening. Then, emboldened by your lack of response, they tell you you bumped into them.

China uses human psychological manipulation tactics to suppress the normal response to their provocations. It's like the AIDS virus, they suppress the immune system's defensive response, and that's why it's successful. Until we see this for what it is. Until we turn around one day and bruise our knuckles on their face, with no remorse, it will continue to happen. That is a certainty. They are new to technology, but old to human manipulation like the above.

Luckily, humans have a natural defense against tactics like these. It's called rage. Our technology and philosophies will fail us here, we need to look into our humanity and use the tools we have.

Re:With all that China has done towards the US... (0)

politkal (2521668) | more than 2 years ago | (#38222198)

Like engineer 9-11 to draw us into Afghanistan (and maybe Iraq) , 13 other countries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Terror ) drain our economy, ruin our diplomatic standing, and now have Pakistan as their puppet which we pay to behave (and also shoot at ISAF troops in Afhganistan) and then the Chinese brag about it AND threaten us with another attack at the same time? "It was not a coincidence that the 9/11 attacks took place right after then President George W. Bush declared the US rivalry with China." "The switching of strategic focus to the Asia-Pacific region is inevitably introducing gaps in the attention paid to international terrorism, which is the real threat. We simply want to point out the loopholes of the US diplomatic strategy out of goodwill to help it avoid another 9/11." - Major General Luo Yuan, deputy secretary general with the PLA Academy of Military Sciences as taken from: http://www.globaltimes.cn/NEWS/tabid/99/ID/685193/Terrorism-US-top-priority-not-return-to-Asia.aspx [globaltimes.cn]

Re:With all that China has done towards the US... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38222248)

Enough said: "It was not a coincidence that the 9/11 attacks took place right after then President George W. Bush declared the US rivalry with China." - Major General Luo Yuan, deputy secretary general with the PLA Academy of Military Sciences source - http://www.globaltimes.cn/NEWS/tabid/99/ID/685193/Terrorism-US-top-priority-not-return-to-Asia.aspx [globaltimes.cn]

One-way traffic (1, Insightful)

Nidi62 (1525137) | more than 2 years ago | (#38220278)

All the calls would be coming from the US, and China would just deny them anyway. If a global cyber attack starts affecting Chinese systems, then the PRC government just has to call down to whichever department or military unit is pulling off the attack, and tell them to cool it a bit. This is like a police department setting up a system to investigate robberies by talking with the pawn shop that happens to be the local fence. Not much is going to get done,

Re:One-way traffic (2)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#38220354)

All the calls would be coming from the US, and China would just deny them anyway. If a global cyber attack starts affecting Chinese systems, then the PRC government just has to call down to whichever department or military unit is pulling off the attack, and tell them to cool it a bit. This is like a police department setting up a system to investigate robberies by talking with the pawn shop that happens to be the local fence. Not much is going to get done,

Chinese call going to US:

"You stop talking about Wayward Province of Taiwan, now or we filter all traffic!"

Re:One-way traffic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38223002)

nope. Americans already put on the table that they'll sell off their non-ownership of Taiwan if China accidentally deletes some of those debt notice.

that sentence is as factual as it's illogical.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/11/opinion/to-save-our-economy-ditch-taiwan.html?_r=3&pagewanted=all

of course, the history proves how much they'll help the KMT when they pulled out during the time they're needed the most against the CCP, which ended with KMT fleeing to Taiwan in the first place. it's just how America works.

Re:One-way traffic (1)

ShovelingSnw (2521642) | more than 2 years ago | (#38221470)

China is trying to use "human warfare" to overcome their technological gap with the United States. They know their zerg rush tactics are useless in modern warfare, so they are going for the dirty tricks to try to even the odds. Tricks such as political posturing, psychological warfare (bogus pro china comments everywhere), and evidently this -- an attempt to prevent our primary recourse to their hacking attacks. I think it's time that Americans decided to try some asymmetric warfare on China themselves. Because China's doing it, it's going unpunished, so what do we have to lose? I propose using legal and ethical means to do things that are counter productive to China. Cause mischief. Think back to when you were a kid, you could think of so many ways to cause mischief without breaking the law and avoiding confrontation in the process. China is playing this game currently, but we can play it too. What's saying we can't? I'll leave it up to clever minds to think of things to do. I know I can easily think of many. Think along the lines of harmless prank phone calls. One potential problem is that any sort of planning/organizing on the Internet would be exposed to Chinese infiltrators (much like the "apologists" who post here). So I'm thinking, the this is going to require in person meetings and it's going to be completely harmless fun. :D

Re:One-way traffic (1)

Nidi62 (1525137) | more than 2 years ago | (#38221568)

The easiest way to hurt China would simply be to bring manufacturing jobs back to the US. The best way to hurt China is to take away their biggest bargaining chip.

Re:One-way traffic (1)

ShovelingSnw (2521642) | more than 2 years ago | (#38221668)

I agree with this. Thus far our efforts at doing it have failed. Why? Probably because of a combination of factors. A lot has to do with propaganda being spread online that we "need" them. I remember reading this as early as 2006. I was like "What? Why do we need a slave labor force for? We did just fine in the 1990s without them." But attempts to protest China seem to the neutral observer to be too much like Joe Nobody's personal movements "free tibet", "stop burning fossil fuels", "don't eat animals", that kind of thing. Of course it's so much more than that, and its an existential concern. But it rings hollow to the average person who doesn't know what we are up against. So I think we need to get a little more aggressive, and stop being passive in this respect. Not saying do anything bad but be very vocal and not in a way that reeks of cliche movements. We need not just passion, but anger. Anger that overcomes the attempts to suppress the immune system response. Anger that ignores psychological diversions such as cries of "racism", or "nationalism." Anger that breaks through it all and says I am not ashamed to want to fight back against China.

Re:One-way traffic (1)

ShovelingSnw (2521642) | more than 2 years ago | (#38221586)

We need to organize more protests and spread awareness of China's activities. One of the things China does (like a good sociopath) is they do things that are counterproductive to us, but then try to suppress our ability to respond. Whether with rhetoric and propaganda, or by people posting defeatist comments saying we "need" them or other such nonsense. It's like the AIDS virus, it disarms its host, and that is why its so successful. What we need is a suppression of the suppression.

Double-Cross (2)

Chaseshaw (1486811) | more than 2 years ago | (#38220448)

I'm glad everyone is so skeptical of this. My first thought was, "oh, so then when they hack the crap out of us and we call to say we're having a 'cyber crisis' they can deny it directly..."

Re:Double-Cross (3, Funny)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#38220530)

I'm glad everyone is so skeptical of this. My first thought was, "oh, so then when they hack the crap out of us and we call to say we're having a 'cyber crisis' they can deny it directly..."

Not like identification of attack source is immediately known. After the attack and the information is pieced together what do you do?

"Hey, we were attacked by a bunch of servers in your country yesterday."

"It was not us!

Yeah, that sounds useful. News media is more effective to get our displeasure across.

CorpCo, a company fulfilling contracts to sell missile defence components to Taiwan was under cyber attack on Sunday, attacks originated from Hu Jintao's mobile phone. When asked about the attack Hu said his mobile phone had been stolen a week ago and he was just now getting around to calling the police.

Re:Double-Cross (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38221256)

I'll leave it up to the experts. If it it looks, walks, and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. It's not Mexico hacking us, nor is it Abu Dabi. China's posture makes it even more abundantly obvious.

Cyber Crisis Hotline? (2)

Hartree (191324) | more than 2 years ago | (#38220590)

"Hello. Cyber Crisis Hotline."

Hi, I need a cyber crisis pronto. More than just the usual ICMP bombing or BGP storm. Something really noticeable with physical damage.

But, I don't want to get into releasing toxic industrial chemicals or the like. That has a bad rep after Bhopal. If you could do a SCADA subversion on a high water dam and release a massive flood that'd be perfect.

"No problem, sir. We have standard rates for major seminatural disasters. That'll be 100 million in gold to our Cayman Islands bank account for a standard target. If the country has nukes or an umbrella treaty with a nuclear power, that'll be 300 million and must be disguised as an IMF loan."

Re:Cyber Crisis Hotline? (0)

wierd_w (1375923) | more than 2 years ago | (#38220830)

"You need cybahcruime righ nao? Ok, we attack you long time! You wan unhappy ending? Dat extra! We have special righ nao on discoun razer purinturs. We throw in special remote exproit in PeeSeeErr rogic. Very easy upgruade! You like! We take regula fee: interecturah pruropurty, and you promise not tark abou' proriticar dishidents. Dat good, oh' you nee' soona? Good dear on purinturs! Factory overflowing!, you take deal? We righ on it!"

Re:Cyber Crisis Hotline? (1)

spazdor (902907) | about 2 years ago | (#38229858)

insert the usual DATS RACIST caveat, but... excellent job in transliterating the accent. spot-on.

Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA)? (2)

PythonM (2184020) | more than 2 years ago | (#38220728)

China and USA are finally doing the same: protecting top 1% of their most influential citizens!

Name that IRC Channel (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38220752)

#h0tl1n3

So the idea is... (2)

otaku244 (1804244) | more than 2 years ago | (#38220786)

To have a hotline set up where the US can report to China that China is hacking the US?
Wouldn't the Chinese already know this?... oh wait... the call center would be in India.

Good idea (1)

PPH (736903) | more than 2 years ago | (#38220962)

They'll set up a system to report and track hacking incidents. Until we discover that the Chinese have just given us the phone number of the local laundry.

It was the "no tickee, no washee" that gave it away.

They must have Anonymous in China also (1)

wezelboy (521844) | more than 2 years ago | (#38221076)

enemy of my enemy and all that.

Ok (3, Insightful)

ShooterNeo (555040) | more than 2 years ago | (#38221456)

Is "cyberwarfare" even technically or practically POSSIBLE? Or does it depend on the side being attacked being a total moron? I've never quite gotten my head around this : if you isolate the systems that can actually do bad things in the real world from external network access, for the most part the enemy can't do shit to you. As long as you keep those power stations and water pumps and all the other useful infrastructure, both civilian and military, on air gapped internal networks, it's going to be darn hard to sabotage them from across the globe.

Not impossible, I suppose...could fake a phone call. But cold war saboteurs could do the same thing, so nothing has changed there.

Now if you start connecting all your critical systems to the internet, and you don't use firewalls or they have security flaws, and you frequently stick thumbdrives full of possible viruses into your air gapped computers...well...I suppose you get what you deserve, then.

Re:Ok (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38221852)

Air gap means air gap. The majority of all compromised systems since the early early 2000s were behind firewalls, many of them competently configured.

An air gap alone is insufficient (1)

sociocapitalist (2471722) | about 2 years ago | (#38224446)

There are many other possible vectors, consider:
Operating system and other software updates imply that the providers are as secure as you need to be
Zero day vulns that might be in pdf or some other file that has been scanned and is thought to be secure
Printers can be vectors for attacks
Disgruntled or careless workers who deliberately or accidentally compromise the air gap
Network hardware sourced from vendors or manufacturers that might have hidden backdoors in hardware/firmware/software

heard of stuxnet? Re:Ok (1)

Fubari (196373) | about 2 years ago | (#38227468)

Have you read anything about how stuxnet propagated?
It was "darned hard", as you say, and the attackers pulled it off.
"Air gap" means far less than it used to.
With every passing year, more and more "things" are dependent upon more and more CPU power.
You don't need to own your targets & control them, just denial of service would be enough. (e.g. suppose there was an exploit that could brick every cell phone made in the last 3 years? Or take power grids offline? Or... you know, it really is a long list of vulnerabilities; this interview [pbs.org] gives a fair overview of the challenges).
The "hotline" thing seems like cheap insurance; why not go ahead with it?

Don't tell them it's working (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38222114)

*RING RING*
PLA: "Hello?"
President: "Hey guys, there's some kind of poop-your-pants cyber thing going on right now, and it's kind of paralyzing us. Do you know anything about this?"
PLA: "No, sorry."
President: "Well, OK then."
*CLICK*
PLA: "It's working! Launch the missiles!"

mod uP (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38222120)

saleS and so on, the system clean

War? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38222138)

Instead of a "cold war" can we call this a "warm war" since we exchange economic goods and technological achievements, as well as intellectual capital. Besides, "warm" can refer to the heat given off by either our respective computers, or our politicians.

Facepalms (1)

lightknight (213164) | more than 2 years ago | (#38223202)

Most forms of "cyber" emergency can be solved by not mandating an Ethernet port on your new rocket launcher (let alone 802.11n). I.e. If you want it to be secure, don't plug it into the f*cking internet!

But in all seriousness, I hope they (and the US) do spend breathe-taking amounts of their constituents money on another pointless endeavor; why, you ask? Because then Marines and every colorful variant thereof will have to field tech support calls from people "who think their Facebook has been hacked." I imagine after a year of that, they'll be signing up for every tour of duty that comes their way, as it's more satisfying to be shot at on the streets of Iraq and eating MREs than doing tier-1 tech support at home.

"Keep your friends close... (1)

sociocapitalist (2471722) | about 2 years ago | (#38224288)

...and your enemies closer."

Sun-tzu. Chinese general & military strategist (~400 BC)

cyber crime (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#38224912)

Its a Hot story ever.
http://www.horizontech.biz

How the mighty have fallen... (1)

cylcyl (144755) | about 2 years ago | (#38228710)

Now we're doing tech support for China users?

Good (1)

Krojack (575051) | about 2 years ago | (#38229240)

I can call it every day and complain about all the Chinese IP's slamming the fuck out of my network. Not that it will do any good but at least I can vent some rage at someone.
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