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Kaspersky Quits BSA Over SOPA Support

Unknown Lamer posted more than 2 years ago | from the don't-copy-that-intertube dept.

The Internet 140

First time accepted submitter Cmdrm writes with an article about Kaspersky Lab quitting the BSA over their (now lukewarm) support of SOPA. From the press release: "Kaspersky Lab would like to clarify that the company did not participate in the elaboration or discussion of the SOPA initiative and does not support it. Moreover, the company believes that the SOPA initiative might actually be counter-productive for the public interest, and decided to discontinue its membership in the BSA as of January 1, 2012.'"

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140 comments

Wow (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38277340)

Didn't know The Boy Scouts of America had a dog in this fight.

Re:Wow (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38277390)

And what about the Scouts Of Parental Age?!

Re:Wow (5, Funny)

jd (1658) | more than 2 years ago | (#38277670)

Well, now they're banned from going into the woods with strange men, ship-to-ship combat with pirates is their one hope of getting a decent badge. Just don't tell them that these aren't the pirates with ships, you'd break their hearts.

Re:Wow (1)

msauve (701917) | more than 2 years ago | (#38278842)

"Well, now they're banned from going into the woods with strange men, ship-to-ship combat with pirates is their one hope of getting a decent badge."

How can you have pirates without ninjas?

Re:Wow (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38282494)

By not being a stupid fucking nerd

Difference between Europe and USA (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38278458)

In America, Boy Scouts is a religious/paramilitary organization, where you get raped by old lecherous guys.
In Europe, Scouts is pretty much about building catapults, and making out with Girl Guides.

Re:Difference between Europe and USA (2, Interesting)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 2 years ago | (#38278504)

Mostly because the scouts were raided by the Mormons to become a recruiting agency.
The Boy Scouts used to be a great organization. But recently it has became a utter mess pushing a religious agenda upon the kids.

Re:Difference between Europe and USA (1)

Reverand Dave (1959652) | more than 2 years ago | (#38278972)

Don't forget the bigotry! Boy Scouts of America loves them some hatin' on the Gays and Atheists, but I guess you covered that with the religious agenda part.

Re:Difference between Europe and USA (5, Insightful)

fahlesr1 (1910982) | more than 2 years ago | (#38279988)

Boy Scouts of America is a private organization and as such has the right to set requirements for membership. The Scout Law explicitly states that a scout is reverent. The Scout Oath states that a scout will "do my duty to God and my country." You can see how an atheist could not recite the Scout Law or the Oath with a clear conscious. The only way atheists could participate in Scouting would be if BSA changed the Law and the Oath, but neither of those things have changed since their adoption in 1911. To change them would be to compromise the principles on which Scouting was founded.

As far as pushing Mormonism, this is the first I've ever heard of it. I am an Eagle Scout and have been very active in the Scouting community for the last 20 years or so. While Scouting makes a big deal about being reverent, they do not push any specific denomination. There are no religious requirements for advancement through the ranks. My troop was filled with a hodgepodge of Baptists, Methodists, Catholics and a few others. Scout camp chapels were all non-denominational (though a few of the larger camps had chapels by denomination) and very general.

There was no religious agenda being pushed upon any of us.

As far as the gays issue, would you want your daughter going on an overnight girlscout trip led by a male leader? Its the same issue. I know most gays are good people who wouldn't harm anyone, but don't pretend they are all saints. There is, at the very least, a perception issue and at the worst there is a legitimate safety issue for the boys in the troop.

BSA is a great organization that does a lot for boys and for this country. Every Eagle Scout has to do a service project that benefits his community. These are no small things, they typically require a few hundred man hours and get the scout's whole troop involved. They can't be done for Scouts or on Scout owned land. Every boy, to advance in the higher ranks, must hold a leadership position in the troop for at least 3 months. They learn how to work together, how to plan a camping trip, how to prepare for emergencies, basic first aid. Many boys have found their vocation through merit badges such as Environmental Science, Radio, Emergency Preparedness, Music or even Computers.

You can disagree with BSA's morals or with their admissions requirements or whatever. But please, don't demonize an organization that has done so much good and that is well within its rights to determine these policies you find disagreeable.

Re:Difference between Europe and USA (-1, Offtopic)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 2 years ago | (#38280242)

boy scouts are modern day mormon fronts. they exclude people based on their religious views.

'nuff said? really, that's all you need to know so you can avoid them.

(and I didn't need to resort to cut/paste blather like you did, mr. trollmeister))

Re:Difference between Europe and USA (1, Insightful)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 2 years ago | (#38280308)

As far as the gays issue, would you want your daughter going on an overnight girlscout trip led by a male leader? Its the same issue. I know most gays are good people who wouldn't harm anyone, but don't pretend they are all saints. There is, at the very least, a perception issue and at the worst there is a legitimate safety issue for the boys in the troop.

just to let you know, in case you weren't completely sure:

YOU ARE A HOMOPHOBE.

and, news alert: they are not out to get you. if anything, I'd worry about your own homosexual feelings. those who are most against it often are the closet cases, themselves.

the 'doth protest too much' issue is loud and clear with you. you'll find yourself in 20 or 30 years, and maybe you'll be more at home with your actual identity.

Re:Difference between Europe and USA (2)

Oxford_Comma_Lover (1679530) | more than 2 years ago | (#38281568)

Calling someone a name very rarely helps, and you'll find that most people who are labelled "homophobes" simply have never known or interacted with publicly gay people for an extended period of time.

Re:Difference between Europe and USA (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38282428)

YOU ARE AN IDIOT. There I made a valid point just like you.

Re:Difference between Europe and USA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38282794)

often are

Talk about unsubstantiated generalised faggot fluff.

Re:Difference between Europe and USA (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38280340)

God is nothing, I can very much do my duty to nothing and my country. My reverence is blasphemy against false gods and the contagious mental illness of faith and ignorance. I can very much follow those rules in my own way.

Re:Difference between Europe and USA (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38280708)

As a cub scout leader in the Netherlands, I can tell you parents routinely put their 7 to 11 year old daughters and sons in my care (its a mixed-gender troop) for overnight stays at the troop house or 3-night camping trips.

Re:Difference between Europe and USA (1)

Oxford_Comma_Lover (1679530) | more than 2 years ago | (#38281486)

As far as pushing Mormonism, this is the first I've ever heard of it. I am an Eagle Scout and have been very active in the Scouting community for the last 20 years or so. While Scouting makes a big deal about being reverent, they do not push any specific denomination. There are no religious requirements for advancement through the ranks. My troop was filled with a hodgepodge of Baptists, Methodists, Catholics and a few others. Scout camp chapels were all non-denominational (though a few of the larger camps had chapels by denomination) and very general.

There is a rumor that National has been largely taken over by Mormons; I don't know if it's true--and so long as they maintain the relatively open nature of the program, I don't care. I've known some great Mormons.

You can disagree with BSA's morals or with their admissions requirements or whatever. But please, don't demonize an organization that has done so much good and that is well within its rights to determine these policies you find disagreeable.

This--very much this. The BSA gets a huge amount of negative press, and much of it is deserved--but it doesn't get anywhere near the positive press and credit for the good work it does that it deserves.

Re:Difference between Europe and USA (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38281628)

Boy Scouts of America is a private organization and as such has the right to set requirements for membership. The Scout Law explicitly states that a scout is reverent. The Scout Oath states that a scout will "do my duty to God and my country." You can see how an atheist could not recite the Scout Law or the Oath with a clear conscious. The only way atheists could participate in Scouting would be if BSA changed the Law and the Oath, but neither of those things have changed since their adoption in 1911. To change them would be to compromise the principles on which Scouting was founded.

These are precisely the reasons I would never let my own child participate in anything like this. Both faith and patriotism are terrible, irrational things. It constantly astounds me that people choose to conflate religion/patriotism with being a good person.

Re:Difference between Europe and USA (1)

Ltap (1572175) | more than 2 years ago | (#38281850)

This is more directed toward someone reading the parent's post as opposed to the parent himself:

Despite the BSA's claims, the traditional Scout approach to religion (from what I have read) is a weak pantheistic or deist stance, not explicit endorsement of organized religion as the BSA does today. Furthermore, most Scouting organizations are officially secular (including the Girl Scouts of America) and leave in "loopholes", for instance Scouts Canada creating a substitute for its Religion in Life badge which anyone, atheist or otherwise, can qualify for (it's mostly related to cultural tolerance and ethics). In general, it makes much more sense to have it due to people whose religious belief is simply not categorized by a single organization, such as the Catholic Church. It discourages territorialism and clannish behaviour, something religious groups are almost absurdly inclined to partake in.

The BSA, on the other hand, stands alone in more or less forcing members to be a member of an officially-approved organized religion (and, yes, unapproved ones are banned, meaning that Unitarian Universalists are discriminated against). Anyone within the non-religious spectrum of belief/non-belief is simply ignored. This is almost unique and is representative of the BSA being thoroughly taken over by fundamentalist Baptists and Mormons. Many groups are explicitly run by churches and discrimination is intense.

The BSA's stances in general are unique -- gender segregation, for instance, is really only upheld by the BSA and a few officially Muslim Scouting organizations run in backwards places like Indonesia, which perfectly characterizes the BSA's rule by social regressives.

If you live in the USA, do not join the Boy Scouts of America. It is a hateful and discriminatory organization which forces swearing of religious fealty and allegiance to a pre-approved religious group. If you do not live in the USA, investigate your local Scouting organization -- some are more moderate than others. If you live in Europe or Canada, it's a pretty safe bet it's fine. Asia is a crapshoot and in Africa groups are mostly run by missionaries.

Re:Difference between Europe and USA (1, Insightful)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#38282220)

How do you reconcile this statement:

The Scout Law explicitly states that a scout is reverent. The Scout Oath states that a scout will "do my duty to God and my country."

with this one:

There was no religious agenda being pushed upon any of us.

?

As far as the gays issue, would you want your daughter going on an overnight girlscout trip led by a male leader? Its the same issue.

Yes, I'd be just fine with that. Everyone should be just fine with that. Pedo paranoia stops kids from forming good relationships with adults. You should be ashamed of yourself.

There is, at the very least, a perception issue and at the worst there is a legitimate safety issue for the boys in the troop

Yes, there is a perception issue. The perception is that the Boy Scouts are bigots. There is a safety issue too. You're sending your kids off to be indoctrinated by bigots.

Re:Difference between Europe and USA (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38282866)

As far as the gays issue, would you want your daughter going on an overnight girlscout trip led by a male leader? Its the same issue. I know most gays are good people who wouldn't harm anyone, but don't pretend they are all saints.

Most child molestation is done by heterosexual men. People that self-identify as homosexual (the very ones that are barred) have a much lower rate of being involved in child molestation. So while most heterosexual men wouldn't harm anyone, don't pretend they are all saints.

There is, at the very least, a perception issue and at the worst there is a legitimate safety issue for the boys in the troop.

Because it's believed true by some, we should act as if it is true rather than educating people. With that approach we would still be back in the dark ages.

Re:Difference between Europe and USA (2)

MSesow (1256108) | more than 2 years ago | (#38280440)

No.

I worked summer camps for the scouts for 12 years, and a scout for 7 years before that. What you are both saying is stereotyping, just like the ideas that all gay men talk and act in an effeminate manner, or that all religious people are crackpots, or that anyone who knows computers is a socially inept virgin. I know the following from first-hand experience:

- Yes, the Mormons use the Boy Scouts as there boy's youth program, and sometimes it almost feels like they have their entire own different type of scouting. They are such a large amount of the enrollment of the program that councils avoid stepping on their toes, but at the same time, they are far from the majority of scouts registered in the program.

- Some churches, etc. are very particular about having their denominations views strongly represented with the troops that they charter. However, there is usually another unit nearby to join, or as the case with my old troop, you can always just move your charter to be with an organization that fits you better.

- I find that some of the units that fall under the categories above have the leaders who are most dedicated to what Boy Scouts should be, and that they are very good at being scouts first when they are meeting or camping, and not just being religious indoctrination machines like the above comments claim. Then there are the majority of units which are not focused on religion, in which case you still have some bad apples where the leaders don't care, but your claims again fall flat.

- Bigotry: the Boy Scouts do not, "loves them some hatin' on the Gays and Atheists" - they do have religion, they do not approve of gay leaders, but at the same time, your comments sound like I should expect the Boy Scouts to act like the KKK. Almost every one of the people I know/knew or worked with in the scouts are very indifferent to someone being gay or agnostic (again, there are always a few exceptions). And there are quite a few people who expect that the BSA will one day in our lifetime include girls, gays and whoever, but that know that it will take time - remember, religious institutions and especially the Mormon church do make up a pretty good size of the registered units and scouts (and consequently revenue), and what organization would so easily shed a quarter (just a guess) of themselves?

- There is some fear about gay men being leaders and what that might mean for incidents of child abuse, but as it was pointed out year after year in the state-required training to recognize signs of child abuse, there is no such correlation. This was at times also noted by the instructor of the Scout's own Youth Protection Training (required for every person over 18), which usually depended on the instructor's knowledge and drive to cover more than just the bare minimum. It is worth noting that YPT, when properly followed, will eliminate pretty much all opportunity for child abuse to occur (but the "properly followed" is the catch).

So what it comes down to for me, is that your comments are are malicious as anything I ever heard from anyone I respected in the scouts ever say. Like I said before, you are taking stereotypes and running with them. Which is to say, the three parents to this comment are behaving as badly or worse (if they are just joking) as pretty much anyone in the scouts ever does. Or, if you are not joking, then I feel like you are the kind of person where I will just nod my head politely and then tell you I disagree, while thinking to myself you are a moron who does not know what they are talking about but who will gladly spout off about it anyways, and that kind of behavior is one of the worst problems in this world. (might be offensive, but so are the above posts if they are not jokes)

Re:Difference between Europe and USA (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38281450)

... or that all religious people are crackpots ...

This is not a stereotype, it is true by definition. Religious people are crackpots precisely to the extent in which they are religious.

Re:Difference between Europe and USA (2)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 2 years ago | (#38280196)

penn/teller 'bullshit' show had an expo piece on the boy scouts.

mormons, sigh....

whatever religion touches, it ruins. so sad we still have to bow down to imaginary sky faeries. or, you get excluded!

Re:Difference between Europe and USA (1)

NotBorg (829820) | more than 2 years ago | (#38282580)

Moderators: This is not "interesting" or "insightful." It's off topic. I didn't click the article for this. The jokes were funny and fine but this Boy Scouts are evil discussion goes way to far off topic for a positive moderation. Please spend your points more constructively.

Re:Difference between Europe and USA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38278958)

Just because you like to touch little boys doesn't mean everybody in scouting does.

Re:Difference between Europe and USA (1)

zyzko (6739) | more than 2 years ago | (#38279368)

It varies greatly in Europe too. Some Scouts are sponsored by church and leaded by religious people and they tend to lean towards the religious stuff.

Baden-Powell is also not exactly very neutral person and he is interpreted in many ways.

My scout times...yes, it was mainly about building contraptions and camping in the woods, and occasionally making things explode when thrown into bonfire (canned peasoup does make a nice boom when cooked right...). And sneaking out nightly to Girl Guides tents was part of the fun on camps :)

Re:Difference between Europe and USA (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 2 years ago | (#38279910)

That's the problem with applying a sectarian agenda to what's really a civic organization. You don't even have to be non-Xian to come up with a contrarian sectarian viewpoint.

Re:Difference between Europe and USA (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 2 years ago | (#38279398)

We have two different Scouts here: the religious, Catholic Church backed Scouts and the secular Scouts.

Good! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38277386)

Good for them

-1 for the BSA (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38277426)

Kaspersky, not fanatic/evil enough to fit in the BSA.

Re:-1 for the BSA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38277588)

They were the ones wanting to end online anonymity. :/
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/10/17/1115205/kaspersky-ceo-wants-end-to-online-anonymity

In Former Soviet Russia (c'mon you must have ,,, (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38277772)

seen this coming), Amerikanski kapitalist fascism too totalitarian by far and a cow.

What a conetree...

"might?" (5, Insightful)

mellon (7048) | more than 2 years ago | (#38277434)

Might be counterproductive to the public interest? Wow, way to soft-peddle it.

Re:"might?" (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38277580)

Meh, they withdrew support from the dont-copy-that-floppy group... I think their response was stern enough.

Re:"might?" (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38277638)

Soft-peddle? Who cares. They QUIT the BSA because of it. It's better than saying:

  "Ohh, we don't like that they do this but we're still willing to pay our $$$$$/year to remain a member....but we really don't like what you're doing and we almost, kinda, sorta mean it!"

Re:"might?" (1)

mellon (7048) | more than 2 years ago | (#38281272)

No argument. I'm glad they did it. I just wish they'd worded their statement a bit more strongly.

Re:"might?" (4, Interesting)

muon-catalyzed (2483394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38277762)

Might translation: we fear that SOPA might actually hit our bottom line.

Kaspersky Lab makes big $$$ over "checking" the pirated/counterfeit content to be virus free, so hardly any surprise here.

Bravo (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38277438)

Kudos to Kaspersky for having a spine. SOPA is a sick, twisted power grab by big media, and their quitting the Business Software Alliance over it is a good thing IMO.

Re:Bravo (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 2 years ago | (#38279350)

Fighting piracy is light fighting terrorism. Either you with them, or against them. Not to make light of terrorist activities, just putting into perspective how politicians will spin this. Basically, Kaspersky will find themselves black listed for not being a team player in the fight against piracy. At least in the American market, they're so fucked, they don't even know it yet.

Re:Bravo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38280026)

...right. This also put the spotlight on the others that, contrary to Kaspersky, made the decision to stay in the BSA and thus support the SOPA.

Fuck the BSA (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38277444)

Posted anonymously because I don't want the BSA on me. The BSA is a pack of lawyers who exploit vague legal definitions to extort people out of money. They destroy small businesses reguardless of weather or not they actually bough the software and they run some of the dirtiest campaigns I've ever seen. Just look up "BSA Rat out your boss"... Seriously? Anybody who destroys some company because they have a chip on their shoulder and are greedy should be blacklisted - if you don't like where you work you should quit not destroy someones dream and leave all your coworkers jobless.

Fuck the BSA and anyone who ever took their side, Kapersky included.

Re:Fuck the BSA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38277660)

So what. Bosses screw over their employers, so who wouldn't want to snitch their boss?

Boo hoo, poor bosses can't steal other companies' products for their own profit. Those very same bosses would be livid if anyone else pirated their products.

Pay for what your business uses or go for the FOSS alternative.

Re:Fuck the BSA (5, Insightful)

anonymov (1768712) | more than 2 years ago | (#38277746)

a) "Bosses who screw over their employess", "Bosses who pirate software" and "Bosses reported to BSA" are three intersecting sets, not the same set.

b) It's not too difficult for a disgruntled ex-employee to put something unlicensed somewhere on company's system before going to BSA. Just gotta be careful not to get found out.

c) And even when there's no licensing problems, BSA audit is one hell of a hassle.

Re:Fuck the BSA (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38278140)

BSA audit isn't just a hassle, it's intractable. Can you prove that you hold a license to absolutely every single piece of software on your computer? Even the libraries and third-party drivers bundled with Windows? Do you track every install and keep hard copies of every license?

The BSA doesn't exist to fight piracy or advance the interests of its members. The BSA exists so a bunch of do-nothing law school graduates - remember, a lawyer is a person who practices law - can leech a living off of the companies and businesses that actually contribute to society.

Re:Fuck the BSA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38279014)

a) yes
b) yes but if the company has a comprehensive IT strategy it is pretty well defended.
c) in practice, not really, and it is very easy to make it "go away", buy a big fluffy pingouin doll, lots of Linux poster, and practice sneering at them, and the audit is very short :-)

Re:Fuck the BSA (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38277820)

Only the second option makes sense. The first one means paying twice for your software, first when actually buying it and the second time when BSA comes up and decides all by themselves you haven't bought it after all. On the other hand, if you've gone all FOSS, they don't enjoy half as much freedoms of ruining your day.

This math has potential of affecting the software market quite seriously. I wonder when the rest are going to smell the coffee and disconnect themselves from those thugs.

Re:Fuck the BSA (1)

Smallpond (221300) | more than 2 years ago | (#38278518)

Even small IT shops have gotten serious about software inventory. File and track licenses centrally and don't give users who don't need it admin privilege. I seldom log in as Administrator on my Windows PC. It not only protects you from audits, but also saves you from buying software that you don't need or already have a site license to.

Re:Fuck the BSA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38279650)

File and track licenses

Done [opensource.org] and done [gnu.org] .

Re:Fuck the BSA (5, Interesting)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 2 years ago | (#38278566)

Every small business I know that has survived a BSA audit has switched to OSS. I made a hefty salary doing that over the past 10 years helping small business do just that.

Changing out the backend to OSS is the most painless for them. switching to OSS apps under windows get them a taste. IT'w when you set up a single machine with linux and show them it works (and you have more control so elf bowling cant get installed, yes I know you can do this under windows) is when they go "oh really!" and jump on that bandwagon.

Some apps they cant walk away from windows, but their liability is significantly reduced by fixing the mess that Microsoft has with their server licensing. Most businesses are out of compliance with their server licenses, and that is where the BSA typically nails them.

Re:Fuck the BSA (4, Interesting)

Kagetsuki (1620613) | more than 2 years ago | (#38278828)

THIS! We were mainly OSS to begin with and that saved us, and we actually had all the boxes and receipts for everything else. But in the end after the BSA dropped their case we wiped everything and now every corporate machine is 100% OSS. I honestly hope they come after us again so we can just laugh at them. Fuckers.

Re:Fuck the BSA (-1, Troll)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#38279670)

Not a viable option. If you work hard making a resume in LibrOffice yet it looks like crap on my system with MSOffice I will throw it in the recycling bin. It is ludricrious to send and receive documents without Windows and Office as it means unprofessionalism and lost sales. The sole reason businesses upgrade in the past was because customers would send attachments that only worked in newer versions of Office. Besides Windows is reliable now and just works. Linux can break during an updateand users are more familiar with windows.

Re:Fuck the BSA (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 2 years ago | (#38279946)

> If you work hard making a resume in LibrOffice yet it looks like crap on my system with MSOffice I will throw it in the recycling bin.

Never had that problem ever. Try trolling harder.

The truth is that even different versions of the official monopoly product don't play well together. This is why a lot of companies use PDF for trading data. Also avoids those revision control security issues in word.

Re:Fuck the BSA (1)

zigfreed (1441541) | more than 2 years ago | (#38280064)

It is ludricrious to send and receive documents without Windows and Office as it means unprofessionalism and lost sales.

And the rest of us that open ODF files in Google Docs or Wordpad are just fine. FWIW, businesses upgrade to the most recent version of Office when they upgrade the systems, because you can't get the depreciation tax deduction on fully depreciated hardware (assuming your company is profitable enough to want the deduction).

Re:Fuck the BSA (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#38280420)

"And the rest of us that open ODF files in Google Docs or Wordpad are just fine. FWIW, businesses upgrade to the most recent version of Office when they upgrade the systems, because you can't get the depreciation tax deduction on fully depreciated hardware (assuming your company is profitable enough to want the deduction).

"

If a client has to do that they will just ignore you and use a competitor instead. Doesn't even run Office WTF?!

I am not saying I agree with this as this is how MS created their monopoly ecosystem in the enterprise when supperior products were available. But in Business you have to look professional and take care of everything yesterday. Those who cater the most and look professional are the ones people trust their hard earned dollars with.

I am seriously not a troll, but Linux/LibreOffice do not belong in a place where customers and documents need to be flawless and delivered with the employees focusing on providing customer value rather than technology. Linux is great on the server but the MS compatibility file formats is what keeps people in and at the end of the day it is worth the costs. Add people sending Quickbook and photoshop files and you have more hassles.

Today with OpenXML businesses do not have to upgrade Office as much but 10 years ago that was a problem and bosses would actually check to see how professional another business was by sending the most recent documents to see if they could read them.

Re:Fuck the BSA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38280208)

So in other words you have binned documents sent to you by prospective employees because they have a more recent version of office then you do (assuming that you do in fact work in a hiring position in a company large enough to care about, that does proper software audits for compatibility, you should be at least a year behind the newest version of office), and were savvy enough to make use of some of the more advanced formatting options which don't translate back to your version; I think you may be doing those prospective employees a favor.

Further you mention sales- you send/receive sales and contracts that are not in unwritable formats!?! (PDF, picture, etc). I hope you like small claims court because if you have not spent a lot of time there yet, you will soon.

Re:Fuck the BSA (1)

Kagetsuki (1620613) | more than 2 years ago | (#38281818)

I send PDFs usually, if I'm sending a document in an editable format it's because whoever I'm working with (a client for example) is going to add something and send it back to me - in which case there isn't going to be a lot of formatting on the document to begin with. Linux breaking in an upgrade is an odd thing to say too, I've had some quirks but never anything serious and certainly nothing show-stopper level. As for users are you talking about clients? Most of my current clients have mixed systems and it's been that way for a long time, so I write every desktop application in cross-platform frameworks/languages anyway.

Now if you are a MS shop writing C# and .net I could understand your point, but we are most certainly not.

Re:Fuck the BSA (1)

RogerWilco (99615) | more than 2 years ago | (#38282430)

Every small business I know that has survived a BSA audit has switched to OSS. I made a hefty salary doing that over the past 10 years helping small business do just that.

Where I feel the BSA wins, is in scaring a lot of the others, especially with those letters they send around that sound like you might be next on their list.

Re:Fuck the BSA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38278440)

I don't think you understand, the BSA goes after companies without any evidence so any disgruntled employee can call them and the BSA will tear into the company. They do things like claim you don't own the software unless you have the original receipts and boxes and they run their own audits which have questionable results. If you get a letter from the BSA and even a single box in your company is running Windows you are screwed, and many times the "snitch" will plant pirated software beforehand so you're double screwed.

In other words it's basically irrelevant if you paid for the software. People calling the BSA are just out for spite and not to try and reduce piracy.

Re:Fuck the BSA (1, Interesting)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 2 years ago | (#38278572)

Replace BSA with OSHA you you have the same thing about workplace safety.

Re:Fuck OSHA (2)

Garybaldy (1233166) | more than 2 years ago | (#38279214)

Damn OSHA. We have so many problems with OSHA. Many of the buildings in my industry have standing orders that whenever OSHA shows up. They are to be stopped at the door until a manager can escort them where they want to go. In that time all work in the building ceases until OSHA has left. Years ago we had some new OSHA inspector tell us we had to put a safety rail on the front of a stage. WTF. suffice to say after we continually said no. Said inspector said if he had to call his supervisor we would be shutdown. Call your damn supervisor you idiot. In the end no rail and we got to teach an OSHA noob he was not god.

Re:Fuck the BSA (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 2 years ago | (#38279984)

...except you just have to follow the rules with OSHA.

That's a relatively simple matter compared to making sure that you paid for everything and documented it in a manner that the BSA will accept. It's more like needing to properly document all of your OSHA relevant work and keep receipts and blueprints.

Entirely different kettle of fish.

Although it may be "inconvenient" if you flaunt sensible safety practices as many workplaces do.

Re:Fuck the BSA (1)

Ihmhi (1206036) | more than 2 years ago | (#38281810)

I'd actually be fine with OSHA being more proactive and giving people fines. I've been in loads of places of work where there aren't just minor violations but major ones. Like really major ones. Like "the hatch on the roof access is installed backwards, so it's actually really hard to get off the ladder and onto the roof".

Re:Fuck the BSA (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38278702)

Well I've got a grudge to bear against my employer, and thanks to this thread have some ideas about what to do. There is so much dodgy s/w in this place it's hard to find the legit copies. I could even tell them where to look, no need for this "oh fiddlesticks, all these unlicensed copies of Office on everyone's PC must have been installed by a rogue employee!" nonsense in this thread. I hope BSA operates in the UK, and that they accept anonymous tip-offs.

Re:Fuck the BSA (2)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#38278814)

They do, and they do.
https://reporting-emea.bsa.org/r/report/add.aspx?src=uk&ln=en-gb

Re:Fuck the BSA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38279860)

I will read that at home, thanks ;) Does anyone have any experience with this process in the UK?

Re:Fuck the BSA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38282190)

I've heard they always find an excuse to not pay off the tipster so you might as well do it anonymously. Be aware that while some employers do actually "deserve" it (for some definitions of deserve) you probably will negatively impact everyone who works there, up to and including losing their jobs. In your case you'd just be pitting two assholes to fight each other, no one wins no matter who comes out on top and any innocent bystanders will probably be hurt.

Re:Fuck the BSA (4, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 2 years ago | (#38277716)

Just look up "BSA Rat out your boss"... Seriously? Anybody who destroys some company because they have a chip on their shoulder and are greedy should be blacklisted

Considering how it seems US companies treat their workers, I'd say calling the BSA is many steps below going postal. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the same companies that do gross, systematic piracy are also equally willing to screw over their employees over pay and benefits. I figure the BSA are looking for disgruntled ex-workers with opinions ranging from "couldn't happen to a nicer company" to "f*ck you too". Besides while the BSA are a nasty bunch, having piracy-using companies undercut other companies ruins it for everybody else. I have a lot less sympathy for commercial users who use it to widen their profit margin...

Re:Fuck the BSA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38278040)

Hey! I use free software in my business and only free software. There is nothing wrong with widening your profit margins from a no-cost app. We don't even do it for the money we do it for the freedom!

Re:Fuck the BSA (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38278168)

Why are you all so frightful in the USA?
Don't just say you have balls! Have some balls!

They are the Mafia. Yes, they are dangerous fucked-up criminals. But the more you are frightened, and the more you give in, the more they grab power and take.
In essence, if hitting you makes you obey, they know (and we know too) they can get away with hitting you again!

That whole shit only started because people let themselves treat that way, or just were passive about the whole thing, in the first place! Which is exactly what happened back then when people wore very narrow mustaches and brown shirts, if you know what I mean.

Re:Fuck the BSA (1)

billcopc (196330) | more than 2 years ago | (#38278472)

God, yes. They are very much the mafia, but instead of thugs and guns, they have lawyers wielding pens.

Now what boggles my mind is if a BSA employee shows up at your front desk, can you legally throw them out for trespassing or something ? They're not from the government, so in my mind they should not have any right to invade your space and rifle through your files, digital or paper. Or did some goddamned senile senator pass a bill granting them super powers ?

Re:Fuck the BSA (5, Insightful)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 2 years ago | (#38278578)

Anyone smart will throw out ANYONE demanding anything if they dont have a warrant in hand. Most of the time the BSA shows up with rented local police so they look more official.

If they do not have a warrant, throw them out, and instantly call the lawyers.

Re:Fuck the BSA (1)

Vektuz (886618) | more than 2 years ago | (#38281570)

Yeah, this is a way to 'legally' do it but the BSA is more of a racket than that. You see, they don't just apply legal pressure. Their contracts make others in the same alliance refuse to deal with those that won't work with the BSA. So for example, Microsoft / Sony / etc will stop validating your hardware or software and Apple will blacklist your keys and so on. If the BSA was standing only on legal footing that would be one thing but right now these large corps are using it as leverage to get smaller ones who depend on them to play ball.

Re:Fuck the BSA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38278618)

You can and should tell them to leave, and if they don't, then you can throw them out for trespassing. But once you're on their list, they may sue you and use discovery to fish for pirated (or inadequately documented) software, and some people (stupidly) think they're just as screwed (or not) either way and make it easy for them.

Re:Fuck the BSA (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38278412)

This.

The BSA is effectively a group of organized white-collar criminals who coopt or misrepresent law enforcement officials in order to extort cash from any and all companies that happen to blip on their radar.

If the BSA shows up at your door with a "search warrant", call the cops. If the police are their with them, call the chief of police. If the chief of police is there with them, shoot the whole lot dead. The BSA is not a government-sanctioned entity nor are they sanctioned by one, they have no right to search your premises under any circumstances. Any BSA agent or law enforcement official acting under contract with them, without express permission from the DOJ and with an on-duty federal escort, is effectively trespassing and may legally be detailed, or in some states (ahem), shot.

Would it be easier to understand if they all rode motorcycles and wore patches on their jackets ?

Re:Fuck the BSA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38278498)

Would it be easier to understand if they all rode motorcycles and wore patches on their jackets ?

Hey, now, let's not go too far. I've got a good deal more respect for a group of honest one-percenters than for the BSA. (Man, OWS sure destroyed that phrase.)

Re:Fuck the BSA (1)

Smallpond (221300) | more than 2 years ago | (#38278486)

Posted anonymously because I don't want the BSA on me. The BSA is a pack of lawyers who exploit vague legal definitions to extort people out of money. They destroy small businesses reguardless of weather or not they actually bough the software and they run some of the dirtiest campaigns I've ever seen. Just look up "BSA Rat out your boss"... Seriously? Anybody who destroys some company because they have a chip on their shoulder and are greedy should be blacklisted - if you don't like where you work you should quit not destroy someones dream and leave all your coworkers jobless.

Fuck the BSA and anyone who ever took their side, Kapersky included.

Wow. How many extra copies of Office did you install?

Re:Fuck the BSA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38278552)

No, the snitch installs them on the way out, of course.

Re:Fuck the BSA (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 2 years ago | (#38278588)

He is running an office of 300 on a single copy of Server 2010 small business edition and no extra CAL's.

Re:Fuck the BSA (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 2 years ago | (#38278514)

You boss deserves it if the asshole wont pay for the software.

If your scumbag boss cant afford Windows Server and Exchange, he can install linux for free. There is ZERO excuse for piracy in business other than being incredibly lazy or just lecherous.

There is a free and open source application for EVERY PART of business. just because the business owner is too lazy to learn new software does not give them the right to steal it instead.

Re:Fuck the BSA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38278944)

It could be that employees are installing things on their own machines or that the IT department is installing more copies of things and spending the extra budget on something else, etc.

But yeah, if you're all OSS it's all irrelevant anyway.

Re:Fuck the BSA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38278854)

No in truth the only problem with the BSA is that they are not agressive enough, they should not only be "blood sucking vampire" but they should go to the client in vampire garb, and carrying bazookas!.
And I applaud "Rat out your boss/company"!!

BSA is the best lobbying for Free Software, if only they would do more :-)

Re:Fuck the BSA (1)

devent (1627873) | more than 2 years ago | (#38281696)

Solution is easy: just don't use any software from the BSA members.
The Open Source alternatives are quite strong, you would be surprised.

Re:Fuck the BSA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38282160)

Posted anonymously because I don't want the BSA on me.

Nothing you said in that post would have caused the BSA to "go after" you. You're just trying to pretend you're some kind of daring freedom fighter for regurgitating common knowledge.

Re:Fuck the BSA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38282774)

Precisely why I run Kaspersky freeware.

Supporting organized crime is counter-productive? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38277470)

Who would have thought?
Especially when that Mafia (one "a") attacks your own target group. Which is about the dumbest thing any business could ever do.

Remember: The whole point of copyright was never to support the artists or software engineers or anything like that. That's why it's called copyright, not e.g. authors' right. The point is, to take the work of somebody else, like a software engineer or musician, pay him once for that service, but then go, tell people that information that can be freely copied is a scarce "product" where every copy is worth money, so the idiots will think they "bought" something when all they have is a "license". While the Mafia gets infinite money off of the work of somebody else.
So they do exactly what the want to prosecute us for.

It's a crime. Plain and simple.
And I haven't even mentioned that whole protection racket scheme that started a few years ago when consumers and artists got the Internet and stopped giving a shit about them.

routing around SOPA damage (0)

harvey the nerd (582806) | more than 2 years ago | (#38277530)

SOPA censorship is a fascist attack, and internet damage. It won't be too long before most of the world simply routes around the USA as an irreparably damaged internet zone in a "Running Man" type police state. Kaspersky Lab is just being an attention ho' for free advertising, belatedly distancing itself from the obvious mafiaa types.

Pun time! (4, Funny)

Shadyman (939863) | more than 2 years ago | (#38277562)

So would that make this a Sopa-Opera?

Re:Pun time! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38277724)

/me throws rotten eggs!

PR stunt (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38277578)

Looks like a PR stunt. They'll probably soon be back in.

Pink plush and replica Louis Vuitton handbags will (-1)

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First timer Cmdrm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38278990)

taco, is that you?

Now can fake antivirus use BSA? / SOPA / DMCA to (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | more than 2 years ago | (#38279278)

shut down the real antivirus companys? sue users who end up with the fake software? sue people who do a charge back after buying it?
use the DMCA to stop the real antivirus apps? Use the DMCA / SOPA to shut down sites telling you how to remove them?

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