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Opera 11.60 'Tunny' Released With Ragnarök HT

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the always-the-quiet-ones dept.

Opera 211

First time accepted submitter iZarKe writes "Version 11.60 of Opera Browser for Desktop was released today. Significant changes: the inclusion of their new HTML5 rendering engine "Ragnarök", a revamped address bar, full ECMAScript 5.1 support, support for CSS3 Radial Gradients (finally), and a very revamped Mail panel. Originally, these features were set to be released with their next major version, 12.00. However, due to more work needed for the hardware acceleration feature also to be included in Opera 12, the 11.60 intermediary release came to be, as they didn't want to hold back the other new features for that long a time."

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211 comments

Opera is best! (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38279692)

I started with IE, moved to Mozilla, migrated to Firefox, became disillusioned and switched to Chrome.

Then I started using Opera and now all is well again, much like the switch from IE to Mozilla.

Re:Opera is best! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38280676)

I really love Opera every time I use it... But after using Chrome for so long now, the Opera UI feels... I don't know... "Clunky"? That's not the right word at all since the UI is elegant and powerful but it's the closest I can come...

Re:Opera is best! (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38284784)

Opera is best used with:
a) mouse gestures enabled and customized (customization takes a little work unfortunately, not very intuitive for all options)
b) custom menues (including the removal of navigation tools + adding buttons)

Bookmark management in Opera seem to suck and is the only negative thing I care for mentioning, beside the crippled online bank support (happened twice the last years, very annoying imo).

Re:Opera is best! (3, Insightful)

Toonol (1057698) | more than 2 years ago | (#38280744)

That's kind of my progression. I'm just so tired of Firefox, now. I've got Chrome loaded on one machine, Opera on another, and I'm kind of seeing which to switch to. I'm leaning Opera.

Re: Firefox vs. Opera (2)

TaoPhoenix (980487) | more than 2 years ago | (#38281026)

I'm starting to become annoyed at Firefox too, but I really like to "pick and pick well" on the tools I use. I just tried Opera now, and my gmail buttons got all bunched up. Yes, a couple clicks made them unbunch later, but still. On a small webpage I am working on, for a while it was perfect in FF and it broke in Opera. Just little things, hard to remember. So I keep going back to Firefox.

Opera's default search seems to be Bing - Microsoft. So what do we think about that?

Re: Firefox vs. Opera (3, Informative)

amicusNYCL (1538833) | more than 2 years ago | (#38281542)

Opera's default search seems to be Bing - Microsoft. So what do we think about that?

Opera's search features are one of the most simple and time-saving features. You can click in the address bar and type "g", then what you want to search for, and it will search for that term on Google. There are several quick searches like that built-in, and it's easy to make your own. If you go to php.net, for example, and see the search field in the upper-right, you can right-click in that field and select Create Search. I used the keyword "p", so if I type "p file get contents" into the URL then it takes me to the manual page for that function on php.net. There's a search field on the top of this page also, if you want to create a quick search for Slashdot. And, as always, if you type "/." into the URL it takes you right here. Quick search keywords for wikipedia and youtube are great ways to save time when I'm trying to waste time online.

I haven't seen Bing as the default search though, if I highlight words and right-click, the Search item takes me to Google. I may have changed that at some point though.

Re: Firefox vs. Opera (1)

BK553 (1835684) | more than 2 years ago | (#38281748)

Firefox has been able to do this for long time.

Re: Firefox vs. Opera (3, Funny)

amicusNYCL (1538833) | more than 2 years ago | (#38281838)

That's nice. Maybe there's a nice Firefox thread where you can spread that knowledge. Or we can compare change logs to figure out who had it first if you're into that type of thing. My money is on Opera.

Re: Firefox vs. Opera (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38281880)

Firefox copied it from Opera...

Re: Firefox vs. Opera (4, Insightful)

Rui del-Negro (531098) | more than 2 years ago | (#38282154)

Firefox (and Chrome, and IE, and Safari) copied pretty much everything from Opera. Tabbed browsing, searching from the address bar, mouse gestures, pop-up blocking, etc., etc., all that was in Opera first (sometimes several years before the others).

Re: Firefox vs. Opera (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38282304)

No no no no no. Apple first. Apple first. [rocks back and forth]

Re: Firefox vs. Opera (1)

johny42 (1087173) | more than 2 years ago | (#38285956)

Firefox (and Chrome, and IE, and Safari) copied pretty much everything from Opera.

This is just wrong. By now, each browser has copied a lot of features from the others, but all of the major browsers had a "killer feature" that caused a lot of people to switch and allowed it to gain traction.

Firefox: very lightweight, excellent extension support
Opera: rendering speed, some advanced features
Chrome: stability (separate process for each tab, plugin), JavaScript speed
IE, Safari: come preinstalled with the OS, well integrated

Note that none of this is unique to the particular browser anymore, and some of those don't even apply anymore.

Re: Firefox vs. Opera (2)

Cinder6 (894572) | more than 2 years ago | (#38284770)

Yes, but what's your point? If I'm going to use Opera, it won't be because it's "the original", it'll be because it has the best features and user experience of modern browsers. It's not like you're going to use Mosaic because it was the first graphical browser.

That said, I'll check out 11.60. Opera has enough rabid fans that I check it out every now and then, but so far I've always gone back disappointed.

Re: Firefox vs. Opera (1)

mister_playboy (1474163) | more than 2 years ago | (#38283890)

Opera's default search seems to be Bing - Microsoft. So what do we think about that?

Not sure if it's changed recently, but Opera was actually using split defaults... Google in the search box to the right of the address bar and Bing on the Speed Dial search box.

You can change these default by bring up Preferences with CRTL+F12, then going to the Search tab. Click on a search engine and you can set it as the Search box or Speed Dial default.

Did fix youtube (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38279778)

Still didn't fix the fact that the new layout of Youtube doesn't work at all under Opera.

Re:Did fix youtube (4, Informative)

ledow (319597) | more than 2 years ago | (#38279924)

Please define "doesn't work".

I just navigated there, clicked on the sliding fancy menus, clicked on a video, played it, etc. and couldn't see anything that "didn't" work.

Nor could I spot anything wrong before I installed this version of Opera this morning, and have been using Youtube with Opera for years. I don't even do anything like user-agent faking any more (haven't needed that for years now).

Re:Did fix youtube (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38280326)

Works fine for me and I haven't even updated to 11.60 yet.

Re:Did fix youtube (3, Informative)

Uhyve (2143088) | more than 2 years ago | (#38280402)

I'm willing to bet that you've got an address blocked that is now "needed". Had the same thing happen and actually assumed the same thing, but yeah, not Opera's fault, it was some Doubleclick address I believe.

Re:Did fix youtube (0, Troll)

InsightIn140Bytes (2522112) | more than 2 years ago | (#38280548)

Yep, it just Google trying to stop people from using ad blockers by putting required components behind ad servers.

Re:Did fix youtube (1)

Baloroth (2370816) | more than 2 years ago | (#38281134)

Hmm, I use Adblock in Opera and youtube worked just fine last night. Also have Ghostery and PeerBlock with blocking of advertiser IPs, so somehow I doubt that is the problem. Which list you use might change that, though.

Re:Did fix youtube (0, Troll)

NicknameOne (2525178) | more than 2 years ago | (#38283946)

Parent poster is the latest in the long line of Microsoft shills (from ge7,tech4, techla, sharklaser) whose job seems to be to praise Microsoft and bash Google on interenet forums. Please disregard whatever he says.

What keeps Opera going? (3, Interesting)

CHK6 (583097) | more than 2 years ago | (#38279814)

I.E. and Chrome come from revenue generating corporations. With the recent unease of Firefox's financial tether to Google possibly coming to an end. What's keeping Opera afloat?

On the side I'm trying out Opera right now for the next week. If all fairs well I'll move off Chrome and onto Opera as my experience with Chrome is in the "meh" stage, that's ther stage right after the honeymoon stage is over. Firefox lost me when it couldn't control the plugin version incompatibility with versions of Firefox.

Re:What keeps Opera going? (5, Informative)

ledow (319597) | more than 2 years ago | (#38279848)

Being the default browser of dozens of smartphones, selling themselves on the Wii console, etc.?

Opera make more than enough to keep themselves going, even if you can't "see" it. Hell, their entire Opera Link & Opera Turbo facilities must cost a bomb to run as it is. They'd have gone under long ago if they weren't making money.

Re:What keeps Opera going? (5, Interesting)

dreemernj (859414) | more than 2 years ago | (#38280756)

And selling the engine for other things. Adobe used (uses?) Opera for Creative Suite. I think it powers the help system or some part of the menu system in that. I would imagine there are other similar uses that I've just never heard of.

Re:What keeps Opera going? (1)

CHK6 (583097) | more than 2 years ago | (#38284952)

So it would seem that Mozilla's reliance on Google, has made the organization weak financially if their funds dry up. If Opera can survive under their own broader agreements without one massive sugar daddy, then so can Mozilla with Firefox.

Re:What keeps Opera going? (2)

InsightIn140Bytes (2522112) | more than 2 years ago | (#38279870)

Search engine deals like with Firefox, but also Opera is HUGE in mobile and embedded boxes. Their browser is in many of those hotel tv's and stuff like that (saw the Opera logo a few times when it was starting up)

Re:What keeps Opera going? (1)

Derek Pomery (2028) | more than 2 years ago | (#38280456)

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/add-on-compatibility-reporter/ [mozilla.org]

This works on all my addons, and as a benefit, speeds up whitelisting for the general public.

Luckily stuff like Firebug and NoScript routinely release versions that work even in the nightlies - have for as long as I've used them.

I believe there's some work on trying to make compatibility checks more flexible, but I'm feeling too sick and sleepy to try finding relevant bugs, if any.

Re:What keeps Opera going? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38280742)

Opera auctions off its default search engine on the regular. Search engines need browser market share, not the other way around.

Re:What keeps Opera going? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38280894)

Firefox lost me when it couldn't control the plugin version incompatibility with versions of Firefox.

  I don't use a ton of extensions (maybe ~5) but the versioning problem is trivial to work around.

  Type about:config into the address bar, make a new boolean named extensions.checkCompatibility.8.0 and set it to false.

  That disables all version checks, the downside is you'll probably have to make a new 9.0 boolean when that comes out in a few months and any truly broken extensions could cause you headaches but they can still be disabled or uninstalled as usual. Annoying? A bit, but it's worthwhile if you like Firefox.

  The one or two extensions I use that were "broken" by versioning have remained fully functional through two Firefox version increments without any updates from the extension developers using that method.

Re:What keeps Opera going? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38281006)

Here is Opera's response to this question:
http://my.opera.com/chooseopera/blog/2011/01/03/how-does-opera-make-money-aka-our-most-asked-question-ever

(for those of you who don't feel like clicking on the link, it provides a short answer with a link to a longer answer. The short answer has something to do with underpants)

Re:What keeps Opera going? (3, Funny)

xaxa (988988) | more than 2 years ago | (#38285142)

Since it wasn't a hyperlink, just plain text, those of us using Opera selected it, right clicked, and clicked "Go to Web address".

Re:What keeps Opera going? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38285982)

I'm sure you'll be happy to know that works in other browsers too. :)
For example, selecting text of a link in firefox and right clicking offers the same menu options as right clicking on a link (open link, open link in new tab, open link in new window, search google...)

Love Opera (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38279818)

Best browser ever!

FYI for Mac users (5, Informative)

tonywong (96839) | more than 2 years ago | (#38279826)

Known issues
Flash Player 11 crashes on Mac. We recommend disabling it or downgrading for the time being.

Re:FYI for Mac users (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38280156)

There is Flash on Mac?

Re:FYI for Mac users (5, Funny)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#38280164)

Flash Player 11 crashes on Mac. We recommend disabling it or downgrading for the time being.

You had me at Flash Player 11 crashes.

Re:FYI for Mac users (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38281430)

I love Opera and used it for years. Even bought a copy, back in the day when it was on sale. But I stopped using it (opensuse 11.3) because flash kept crashing in a loop, even with plugins disabled.

Firefox is a pale shadow, but at least it doesn't suck up my cpu or fill my log space with endless crash msgs. YMMV.

Re:FYI for Mac users (4, Informative)

Mex (191941) | more than 2 years ago | (#38281728)

I used Opera for a long time, but after switching to a Mac, I have to say the OSX version is not as good as windows.

Can't even get gestures to work with my multitouch trackpad, which led me to switch to Safari. Not unhappy with the switch, actually.

But Opera feels very neglected on the Mac...

Wow. (5, Interesting)

Pionar (620916) | more than 2 years ago | (#38279858)

I have to say, after only using it for about 10 minutes, and using the developer tools, very nifty! Plus, it makes it easy to send custom-made http requests, including inserting your own headers and content body.

With firefox, there's an extension for that called Poster.

Re:Wow. (4, Interesting)

InsightIn140Bytes (2522112) | more than 2 years ago | (#38279974)

I have to agree, Opera's developer tools are top-notch. I'm just making a program that needs to read DOM-tree from websites and it comes really handy - one click in the developer tools and it shows whole page as DOM-tree and exactly the information I need.

Re:Wow. (5, Insightful)

ledow (319597) | more than 2 years ago | (#38279994)

As an Opera user, I can safely say that I hear "With firefox, there's an extension for that..." about just about everything that Opera has built-in and yet Opera doesn't get in my way or require me to install untrusted random junk to do it.

Enjoy a decent browser. Personally, I think it's one of the best ever mail clients too.

Re:Wow. (2)

residieu (577863) | more than 2 years ago | (#38280146)

Yeah, I gave up on Firefox as my primary browser long ago because all the things I had to struggle to get Firefox to do (which tabbed browser extension do I need to make EVERYTHING open in a tab? Which session extension actually works?) just worked out of the box in Opera. I don't have any interest in tinkering with software right now, so I'm not sure how those things have improved on newer Firefoxes.

Re:Wow. (0)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 2 years ago | (#38281054)

As an Opera user, I can safely say that I hear "With firefox, there's an extension for that..." about just about everything that Opera has built-in

This is not a troll, so please don't take it as such. I'm genuinely trying to get away from firefox but I'm currently tied to three extensions:

Adblock Plus (isn't everyone?): I was under the impression (read on slashdot, so YMMGV) that Adblocking on opera was sub-par (still requested the ad, and just hid it, etc... rather than blocking it completely)? Since seeing the ads is the smallest part of why I use ABP, and I'm more interested in blocking the scumbags from tracking me, then this, if true, doesn't do me much good.

NoScript: See ABP.

PasswordMaker: This is a biggie at the moment. It's great for keeping a different password for every site without having to store them in "the cloud" or transfer much between machines.

DownThemAll would be nice too, but honestly, I use that infrequently enough that I could just fire up ChromeFox when I need it. But the other three are really tying me to this albatross.

Re:Wow. (4, Informative)

Baloroth (2370816) | more than 2 years ago | (#38281452)

I was under the impression (read on slashdot, so YMMGV) that Adblocking on opera was sub-par (still requested the ad, and just hid it, etc... rather than blocking it completely)?

Nope, Opera doesn't download blocked content, I just checked using Dragonfly (the built in developer tool). Blocked content only shows up as downloaded once you go to the visual click-to-block option, to allow you to see exactly what is and isn't blocked. Otherwise, in normal browsing, it doesn't download it.

Can't speak about Noscript, as I've never used it, but there does seem to be a similar extension in Opera. PasswordMaker has an Opera Widget (which is slightly less convenient than an extension), but there is another proper extension (Password Hasher) that seems to work the exact same way. I just use LastPass, though.

Re:Wow. (3, Informative)

A Friendly Troll (1017492) | more than 2 years ago | (#38281582)

Adblock Plus (isn't everyone?): I was under the impression (read on slashdot, so YMMGV) that Adblocking on opera was sub-par (still requested the ad, and just hid it, etc... rather than blocking it completely)? Since seeing the ads is the smallest part of why I use ABP, and I'm more interested in blocking the scumbags from tracking me, then this, if true, doesn't do me much good.

Not true. What's blocked is blocked.

Also, one curious thing: Opera has had blocking capabilities under the hood since version 6.02, which was out in April 2002, so that's a whole nine and a half years now. I think Opera was the first web browser that allowed you to block certain URLs natively.

I found that the Adblock list for Opera [fanboy.co.nz]

works quite well. At home I use AdMuncher, at work I use the list above. Never had any problems with it. It's not as advanced as ABP, but at least it allows you to unblock stuff easily - I could personally never figure out how do to that with ABP, but I could just be stupid.

NoScript: See ABP.

Yeah, that one isn't really there. You can turn off JS entirely for a site - it's all or nothing.

PasswordMaker: This is a biggie at the moment. It's great for keeping a different password for every site without having to store them in "the cloud" or transfer much between machines.

Well... "PasswordMaker solves all of these issues. It is a small, lightweight, free, open-source tool for Internet Explorer, Firefox, Google Chrome, iPhone, Opera, PHP, Windows, OS/X, Linux, Flock, Yahoo! Widgets, Android, Python, and many other platforms & systems."

It's a widget, though.

Or you could use the built-in Opera Link functionality. Auto-sync everything important, including passwords.

DownThemAll would be nice too, but honestly, I use that infrequently enough that I could just fire up ChromeFox when I need it. But the other three are really tying me to this albatross.

Kind of. Open the Links panel (Tools, or Ctrl+Alt+L), filter what you want, select, download. Again, not as advanced as this extension, but it's there.

Re:Wow. (1)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 2 years ago | (#38282020)

Thanks both to you and to Baloroth.

I might be able to squeak out "close-enough" use from the hints you both gave me (and Password Hasher is a GREAT find. Thank you!) to give opera a real test-run.

I don't have it handy with me at the moment, but are add-ons like Password Hasher and extensions generally compatible between platforms (i.e. will it work on my CM7 Nook Color, too?) AIUI, "widgets" are platform specific, so I just want to make sure.

NotScripts look like it might be near enough to noscript for my purposes.

I sure wish there was an "Images" panel like the Links panel. Then I could replicate DTA close enough.

Thanks again, guys. Now I'll start my messing around with it.

Re:Wow. (1)

amicusNYCL (1538833) | more than 2 years ago | (#38282118)

That's a great link to urlfilter.ini. Going through that, they thought of a lot of things that I didn't. And the last update on the file was tomorrow, so you know it's current!

Re:Wow. (1)

jones_supa (887896) | more than 2 years ago | (#38282122)

Adblock Plus (isn't everyone?): I was under the impression (read on slashdot, so YMMGV) that Adblocking on opera was sub-par (still requested the ad, and just hid it, etc... rather than blocking it completely)?

That comment was for Chrome.

Re:Wow. (1)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 2 years ago | (#38283084)

Nah, it's just really, really out of date, I realized after I'd posted it. The last time I looked at opera was back when it was still adware, although the reasoning they gave for it back then was pretty much teh same as the reasoning they give for Chrome now.

I'm just glad Opera got it's crap together and started melting faces in the mobile/embedded markets, so that they made the PC version free.

So far, it doesn't seem too bad. Some ugly Javascript I've used is a bit wonky , and I can't seem to find the developer tools (or even javascript console). It reminds me of trying to get Safari to work. :) (All the links I find say its under Tools-Advanced... assuming the "Tools" menu is the "O" button, there ain't no "Advanced"...)

So I'll be keeping Fox around for work, at least, until I can get it sorted.

Re:Wow. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38283788)

The Developer Tools is called Opera Dragonfly. It's under Tools>Advanced on mine, but I removed the big O button and edited all my menus and keyboard shortcuts, so YM will definitely V.

Re:Wow. (1)

richlv (778496) | more than 2 years ago | (#38286026)

try right clicking anything and choosing "inspect element", i believe that gives you the dev tools (dragonfly)

Re:Wow. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38283670)

I don't really understand why people block ads at the browser level. It's much better to do it at the network level or at least at the OS level. Use a firewall or a hosts file. The first way will block them for all software installed on all devices on your network and the latter for all browsers and other programs on your specific device. If you do this, no matter what browser you install on your computer, there won't be any ads.

Re:Wow. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38283938)

Because if my browser tries to fetch a file from the internet, I want it to get that file without the OS or network playing any funny business. I'll control which files my browser asks for and how it displays them, thanks.

Re:Wow. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38284102)

Your statement makes no sense. You have the same level of control no matter which method you choose.

Re:Wow. (1)

richlv (778496) | more than 2 years ago | (#38286046)

browser blocking usually is easier to control, modify and transfer between multiple systems. there aren't really nice tools (user level) for this on lower levels. not to mention that browser can also give you immediate feedback that something actually is blocked on the page

Re:Wow. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38285914)

> NoScript

For NoScript on Opera I use:
F12 j

For Flash, etc. on Opera I use:
F12 a

Re:Wow. (1)

Tomato42 (2416694) | more than 2 years ago | (#38282548)

I think it's one of the best ever mail clients too.

Unfortunately it doesn't support S/MIME, let alone OpenPGP.

Re:Wow. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38280002)

We use it at our firm for custom searches - right click a form on a web page and click 'create custom search'. We're in the telecoms industry, so if I get an email with somebodys phone number I double click it, click 'search by msisdn' and it submits a form and loads a page using whatever you double clicked as the paramater. We do the same thing for transaction ID, etc. Also the email client is amazing.

Re:Wow. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38282018)

There are many. Like "Tamper Data" being the first original one I can remember.

But even though I can't live without my own large set of partially custom add-ons in Firefox, I am always supportive of Opera.
If was the browser that got me through the dark years between Netscape 4.5 and Firefox 0.7 when everybody was using the shitty IE for no reason. Remember that Opera was the only one who had tabs, user style sheets, mouse gestures, full page zoom, and a load of other stuff back then. For that alone it will always be in my heart, like a first love. ;)

If youâ(TM)re just a power-user and no developer, it's still something to love. They always provide very high quality.

Re:Wow. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38282314)

I'd like a feature that makes the browser blend in with the Windows UI. Where can I find the extension to do that?

Re:Wow. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38284588)

Don't need an extension. Windows skin.

Separate the browser from the mail ... (1, Insightful)

Infernal Device (865066) | more than 2 years ago | (#38280110)

Dammit, I don't want one program that does everything. I have to imagine how awesome Opera Browser would be if they weren't also focused on a mail client. And vice versa.

Re:Separate the browser from the mail ... (4, Informative)

InsightIn140Bytes (2522112) | more than 2 years ago | (#38280238)

What does it matter? If you don't want to use it, it never gets in the way. And no, it doesn't add to bloat either, Opera is really fast and lightweight. This means also their own "extensions" are since they're all coded by the same team and integrated. Of course, now a days there's real extensions too, so if you need something, you can install it really easily. And they don't break with every new version like with Firefox.

Re:Separate the browser from the mail ... (-1, Troll)

NicknameOne (2525178) | more than 2 years ago | (#38284442)

Parent poster is the newest in the long line of Microsoft shills (from ge7,tech4, techla, sharklaser) whose job seems to be to praise Microsoft and bash Google on interenet forums. Please disregard whatever he says.

Re:Separate the browser from the mail ... (1)

jgrahn (181062) | more than 2 years ago | (#38285302)

What does it matter? If you don't want to use it, it never gets in the way.

Did you read what he wrote? He believes the browser would be better if Opera's developers could focus on just doing a browser, rather than a browser-and-mail-usenet-bittorrent-client-and-...

Re:Separate the browser from the mail ... (1)

fisted (2295862) | more than 2 years ago | (#38280274)

Would mod you up if i had the points. Do one thing - and do it well. If only more programs would stick to that philosophy...

Re:Separate the browser from the mail ... (1)

InsightIn140Bytes (2522112) | more than 2 years ago | (#38280732)

Opera has always offered the complete suite. There's Firefox and Chrome for you if you want that philosophy.

Re:Separate the browser from the mail ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38282140)

Bullshit.
Straight from the horse's mouth. [opera.com]
If you weren't there from the beginning, don't try to look smart by making absolute statements which implies you were.

Re:Separate the browser from the mail ... (1)

dreemernj (859414) | more than 2 years ago | (#38280824)

It doesn't seem like they really suffer from including other things. The browser is good and fast. And, on my older Linux boxes where I never bother to upgrade RAM, I use the lowram option to only load the core browser functionality at startup. I don't think bundling a few helpers is really all that serious an issue.

Re:Separate the browser from the mail ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38280842)

There is nothing requiring you to use the mail client but it is well integrated into the browser. I use an external mail client, but I still use Opera's built in client for reading RSS feeds because it does such a nice job at it.

Re:Separate the browser from the mail ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38282608)

I use the mail client at work and not at home. If you don't activate it by adding a mail account, you'd never know it was there. It isn't like SeaMonkey (which I used before Opera dropped the ads).

Does this still crash it on Windows? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38280252)

http://tinyurl.com/7yyknry [tinyurl.com]

Go ahead, turn previews on. It's not goatse, it's just a javascript/DHTML benchmark.

http://tinyurl.com/preview.php?num=7yyknry [tinyurl.com]

Re:Does this still crash it on Windows? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38280872)

yeah, it does crash

Re:Does this still crash it on Windows? (1)

xaxa (988988) | more than 2 years ago | (#38285328)

http://tinyurl.com/7yyknry [tinyurl.com]

Go ahead, turn previews on. It's not goatse, it's just a javascript/DHTML benchmark.

I've not upgraded yet, (aptitude will sort it out at midnight) but it didn't crash Opera 11.52. It drew a fractal in Javascript. It was about 25% slower than Chromium, and took a similar amount of RAM -- over 500MB. If your PC appears to crash perhaps it doesn't have enough RAM and is swapping?

Firefox had done 25% of it by the time I gave up waiting.

Re:Does this still crash it on Windows? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38285430)

Every time I try it, it crashes at about halfway through. I've tried on 3 separate computers (2 XP, 1 Windows 7) with several different versions of Opera.

RAM shouldn't be the problem, since it's only using about 350 MB when it crashes. Firefox manages to draw the whole thing but on this PC it takes about 10 minutes and consumes an inordinate amount of RAM. If swapping is the problem, it's a problem with the way Opera does it, because Firefox doesn't exhibit the same problem. Firefox is just dog-slow when it's swapping that much, as anyone would expect...

Re:Does this still crash it on Windows? (1)

xaxa (988988) | more than 2 years ago | (#38285714)

I'm using Opera on Linux. I've upgraded to 11.60 for you, and it's running the test now. ... it took 180s (faster than before), and about 500MB was freed when I closed the tab. I'm not doing anything special, so unless there's a difference between Windows and Linux I have no idea what it could be.

"Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q9400 @ 2.66GHz" if anyone cares.

A browser I want to like but am unable too (3, Informative)

Quantum_Infinity (2038086) | more than 2 years ago | (#38280398)

Opera is one browser I have always wanted to like and make my primary browser but have never been successful in doing it. The browser is fast and has great features but a few things have always prevented me from making it my primary browser -

1. No RSS live bookmarks. Once I got a taste of live RSS bookmarks in Firefox, it was hard for me to read RSS feeds in any other way, no Google Reader, no RSS reader would do it. I don't want to open a separate window/program and pile up RSS feeds in there. I love it the way it is in Firefox. You just read them in a drop down menu off the bookmarks bar and they automatically get discarded as new ones come in.

2. Website compatibility - This may not be Opera's fault but nevertheless it works against them. Lot of sites still don't work right in Opera and some flat out refuse to proceed unless some other browser is used.

3. Per site default zoom level - These days screens have high resolutions. Lot of sites show up as very small text (Tom's Hardware is one, another in NY Times). In Chrome when you zoom a website, it remembers it forever. The next time you go to the website, Chrome shows it at the zoom level you set earlier. It remembers different zooms for different web pages. Opera has just one global default zoom setting that applies to all websites and actually lot of websites look terrible when zoomed in Opera (try Tom's Hardware). Also, Opera's rendering of input search boxes get screwed up when a web page is zoomed. Try editing a query on Google when the web page is zoomed and you'll understand what I mean.

If they fix these three issues, I would make it my main browser immediately. For now it has to be Chrome (sigh!).

Re:A browser I want to like but am unable too (3, Insightful)

pwileyii (106242) | more than 2 years ago | (#38280628)

I completely understand that. I'm on Opera and I've gotten so used to some of the features in Opera that I can't switch to anything else without losing things. I tried Chrome and Firefox but switched back because of a few seemly trivial features that I couldn't do without. Personally, I love the way the Opera does RSS feeds within its email reader and nothing else could do that and the speed dial works so nicely in Opera (although it works pretty well in Chrome too).

As far as website compatibility, I think this issue is nearly gone. Opera supports masking as IE or Firefox which solves most of the very few issues that I encounter and sites that don't work correctly are usually broken in Firefox or Chrome anyway and require IE to work. I've experienced instances of a site displaying strangely in Opera and when I pull up Firefox or Chrome it displays exactly the same strange way.

Re:A browser I want to like but am unable too (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38282992)

There is that mail client in the Opera which supports RSS feeds. It was very nice in the version 10.10 when I used it. It was more comfortable than the live bookmarks and much more efficient than the combination of Thunderbird and your favorite browser.
My problem with the browser have always been the fragility of bookmark system. If it crashes you might loose you bookmarks permanently if you haven't been doing a regular backup. UI bugs forced me to switch to Firefox and Chrome after the 10.50 version.

Fantastic and Innovative. (4, Informative)

pwileyii (106242) | more than 2 years ago | (#38280404)

I've been using Opera for many, many years and they are constantly innovating. The were the first browser that I know of with tabbed browsing, the first with the speed dial, among many other features. The browser has a built in mail client, which I use mainly for reading RSS feeds, which is nice because it keeps the entire history of the feed, and it also has a built in BitTorrent client, which has been convenient on a few occasions when sites have BitTorrent download links. It supports extensions, but they aren't quite as advanced as Firefox extensions, although from a security standpoint that might be a good thing and installing them doesn't require a browser restart. Opera Link is great for syncing up your bookmarks, history, speed dial, etc with all your other Opera browsers (desktop and laptop for example). Opera Turbo is similar to Amazon's Silk browser feature to use a compressing proxy, although Opera Turbo can actually detect a slow connection and only use the feature when it needs to and then only when it is turned on. I haven't really messed with Opera Unite, but it seems like a pretty cool feature which allows you to basically set up a limited web server on your own computer for sharing files, broadcasting a web cam, accessing your home media library remotely, among other things. Back in the day I had to have another browser on standby because there were many pages Opera didn't work with, now it is very rare to find pages that don't work with Opera, plus Opera supports masking the browser as IE and Firefox for those pages that perform browser checking and tell you that your using an unsupported browser.

If you haven't tried Opera, give it a try, you might be pleasantly surprised at how advanced and slick it is.

Re:Fantastic and Innovative. (1)

MysteriousPreacher (702266) | more than 2 years ago | (#38280976)

I've had similarly good experiences with Opera. It's snappy and stable. In terms of nice gadgets, it's a choice between iCab and Opera, and I generally juggle between iCab and Opera on iOS. On the desktop I'm increasingly drifting over to Opera. Having DuckDuckGo included as built-in option for searches sweetens the deal.

Yeah, the mail and BitTorrent clients will be a concern for Unix "one tool for one job" purists, but really I don't see these additional functions detracting from what is a fast and damned friendly to use browser. To some extent, I think of it as being the BBEdit of browsers. Lots of functionality while working just fine as a bog standard browser.

I love Opera (4, Informative)

acklenx (646834) | more than 2 years ago | (#38280542)

Gestures. Use the mouse to back, forward, close tabs, open tabs, refresh, etc

Fast. The back button reloads the page from cache - without having to re-post form data!! (duh, chrome)

Tabs - the tab state is saved - even if you suddenly pull the power cable from the back of your computer

Tunny (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38281014)

Does that name mean it can listen in to German government communications?

Testing Opera (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38281092)

I'm giving Opera a go here, its pretty nice. First time back to it in years. Overall looks nicer than FF. I just wish there were more extensions. Such as Smoothwheel, FTP client (FireFTP), Tabs in Titlebar, Flash Block. I'm also not liking the way Stumbleupon is working either. For instance... I'm on a page that wasn't found by stumbleupon... how do I add it to stumbleupon? Seems to be no way of doing so without the toolbar that FF has. Mostly minor annoyances i know, but these will be preventing me from switching over.

Tranny (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38281110)

Sorry, but every time I read the name I misread it as "Tranny".

This is what I love about Opera (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38282360)

Hold right mouse button, then click left. That's Back function.

Hold left mouse button, then click right. That's Forward function.

I can't live without those anymore!

Look Mozilla... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38282920)

This is how to do it right. Admit you're not good enough for a "full" version number and just increment it 0.1. Also it respects power users by building in a Status bar and an option to display http://.

I'd hate to say it, but if Mozilla keeps buggering about then even Opera will overtake it in marketshare one day. Just like Netscape failed horribly before.

Widely supported (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38283020)

Opera is not only a great (my favorite for years anyway) browser for geeks/power users. It also is developed and functional on many plateforms (not including embedded). Keeping the same bookmarks/preferences when switching from Linux to Windows to BSD is one hell of a user experience.

Oh so it's a Rapid Release version then.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38283340)

Except without the major version numbering. Looks like they learned from other browsers mistakes.

Fast as greased lightning (1)

utkonos (2104836) | more than 2 years ago | (#38285540)

Unbelievably fast. I have not used Opera in quite a while, and I just installed it to try it. It is even faster than Chrome, which seemed extremely fast compared to Firefox when I first installed it. I am running a 6 core AMD machine, and Opera basically instantly opens everything. You can't really tell that it "loads" the page just changes to the next right when you click. Amazing. My only gripe, and it's a big one, is that Opera is not open source. That might be a deal breaker.

revamped address bar (1)

richlv (778496) | more than 2 years ago | (#38285986)

oh, please, please, i hope the address bar has been revamped to what it was before... without that stupid url parameter de-lighting in annoying, barely readable grey font

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