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GNOME 3 Wins Linux Journal's Readers' Choice Award

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the de-gustibus-non-disputandum-est dept.

GNOME 378

msevior writes "Although Linus Torvalds and some Slashdot commentators may disagree, GNOME 3 has many admirers. GNOME 3 was awarded the Linux Journal Readers' Choice award for 2011." Though I'm one of the complainers, I hope to be converted with the help of Gnome Shell extensions.

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There will be no GNOME 4. (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38321792)

GNOME 3 is basically a dead project at this point. No serious developers use it these days, and when that happens to an open source project, it dies.

It was taken over by failed web designers. They screwed up the user interface and the user experience in a way that nobody can use it for real, productive work, and thus no serious users actually use it.

GNOME users have moved on. There are a small group that stick with GNOME 2. The rest now use KDE, XFCE, or a variety of apps under some standalone window manager. The only GNOME 3 users are those who try it out before moving on to a better desktop environment.

The same thing is happening with Firefox, too. The productive users are fleeing it because the failed web designers have moved on to fucking up its UI, too.

It's sad to see these once-great projects fall away like this, solely because failed web designers started trying to apply their failed web design techniques to desktop applications. I suppose that it's a self-correcting problem, however. Software projects like GNOME 3 and Firefox 4+ just don't end up surviving because they lost the users who formerly made them great.

Re:There will be no GNOME 4. (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38321862)

I agree that it is a dead project, but it didn't start with GNOME 3. GNOME would have been a candidate for 2001 as desktop of the year, not 2011. It looks like a cross between early versions of OSX and Win 95 combined, with a dash of X thrown in.

 

Re:There will be no GNOME 4. (1, Offtopic)

InsightIn140Bytes (2522112) | more than 2 years ago | (#38321894)

I never understood why someone would use Gnome over KDE anyway. Gnome always felt kind of a toy or candy interface. All the windows were full of useless spacing and the style just gave it sort of a broken feeling. Like the apps would be incomplete or in debug state when programmers just throw controls and finish the interface later. I always liked KDE much more, it was way more professional. Still, both suffered (and still do) from crappy and blurry font rendering and kind of slow interface. Linux interfaces have never felt exactly as quick as Windows. I don't know if its some driver issue or something, but Firefox and XUL suffer from the same issue even on Windows.

Re:There will be no GNOME 4. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38321938)

GNOME was nothing but NIH combined with FSF fud over Trolltech's licensing of Qt. It would be nice if we could retroactively abort it.

All Open Source projects must reject "designers". (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38322084)

All Open Source projects must forcefully reject any and all participation from self-labeled "designers". These people are a menace to Open Source software. They will destroy UIs. They will destroy usability. They will kill entire Open Source projects.

Don't even be polite about it. Tell them to fuck right off. If they persist, ignore them on mailing lists or forums. Ensure they don't have commit access. If they submit patches, reject them.

These faux "contributors" need to be marginalized. We need to go back to developers calling all of the shots. Developers care about usability and creating sensible UIs. They don't stand for making things look "pretty" when doing so will make the software unusable. I'd rather use a damn ugly application that works, rather than one that a "designer" has rendered useless.

It's too late for GNOME and Firefox. But it's not too late for other projects. They still have time to put down this threat to their very existence.

Re:All Open Source projects must reject "designers (4, Insightful)

masternerdguy (2468142) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322116)

At least those UI designers can't touch the linux kernel!

Re:All Open Source projects must reject "designers (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38322178)

I just brushed my asshole with my gnome toothbrush.

Re:All Open Source projects must reject "designers (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38322428)

This is exactly why Apple went bankrupt back in 2007: "designers" fucking everything up. And thank God for that, because otherwise we'd have lost the smooth functionality and labor-saving keystroke memorization that Lotus 123 and WordPerfect have blessed us with... not to mention the almighty command-line, which in the general opinion of all good men far surpasses any "designer's" laborious move-hands-from-keyboard-to-mouse-and-move-mouse-and-click slavery. Free market forces and common sense have converged to refute the heresies of the designers and their shiny UI's and gradients and drop shadows, and our world is a better and more moral place because of it.

There are only two kinds of programs in the world: eye candy without functionality, and the raw power of DB-engineer-designed matrices of text input boxen! For those who don't understand, let me elucidate by analogy: there are only two kinds of women in the world: the pretty, vacuous ones, and the ugly lesbian geniuses. The world is a binary place, full of ones and zeroes, and there's no room for compromise: the shiny is always useless. Suck lied to us.

Let us all take a lesson from Firefox, which lost its entire userbase to Chrome not because of lingering perceptions of memory bloat that a better marketing team could have dispelled; nor because Google had so much name brand recognition, practically being synonymous with the internet in the minds of many thanks to the ubiquity of its search and mail, that everyone accepted its new browser as Really Hot Stuff From a Quality Company—no, Firefox lost its entire userbase to Chrome and was abandoned as a software project because a "designer" moved the tabs and consolidated the search and address bars.

I'm glad that I'm not alone in daring to hope that the GNOME team takes a good, hard look at its socialist ways and decides to return to just plain, American xterm windows with a Motif-like window manager. It's time we programmers took back our computers from the commie "designers" who want to push useless eye candy on us.

Re:All Open Source projects must reject "designers (1)

Trilkin (2042026) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322640)

The fact this post hasn't been modded up is proof satire is lost on Slashdot.

Re:All Open Source projects must reject "designers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38322724)

I know I hate Xcode 4 and I hope somethin happens about it in the future.

Re:There will be no GNOME 4. (1, Interesting)

amiga3D (567632) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322222)

Man I don't know what you're talking about and I don't think you do either. While really UI choice is up to the individual's personal prejudices I can't see where you think that windows interfaces are quicker than KDE and Gnome. I've used KDE and Gnome in various distros as well as XFCE and Enlightenment. I've never found anything anywhere that lagged like window's UI......well maybe Mac OS 9. I personally loved Ubuntu 10.10 and loathed 11.04. I'm forcing myself now to use 11.10 as Unity is mostly stable now on my hardware but really it's ugly and hard to take but it's still better than windows. I use Win 7 at work and it's better than.....Vista. Lord if I had to use that shit at home I'd seriously think about digging my A3000 out of storage.

Re:There will be no GNOME 4. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38322706)

I am with you, but I moved on to open Suse. Waiting for Ubuntu to get it back together.

Re:There will be no GNOME 4. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38322256)

KDE ki kreat kome kimes, ket k kan kever kind khat k'm kooking kor.

Re:There will be no GNOME 4. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38322284)

They kwit that naming skheme with the transition to KDE4, thankfully.

Re:There will be no GNOME 4. (1)

Tarlus (1000874) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322626)

Though still, nobody can find that they're looking for...

Re:There will be no GNOME 4. (4, Insightful)

0123456 (636235) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322280)

I never understood why someone would use Gnome over KDE anyway. Gnome always felt kind of a toy or candy interface.

That's odd, because that's how I've always felt about KDE. I try to use it every now and again but rapidly go back to Gnome 2, which generally stays out of the way and doesn't waste my time with stupid animations.

Re:There will be no GNOME 4. (2)

broken_chaos (1188549) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322996)

Gnome 2? Feh. Real Gnome admirers are nostalgic for Gnome 1.

...I know the first time I ever tried using Nautilus, I was turned off of Gnome 2+ forever more (though I've heard it got not-as-bad after a few years). If I remember correctly, my pains were due to it's web browser-like approach to file managing, and its obsession with mime types (making it near-impossible, at least originally, to just assign opening a file extension with a certain command).

Re:There will be no GNOME 4. (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38323006)

I try to use it every now and again but rapidly go back to Gnome 2, which generally stays out of the way and doesn't waste my time with stupid animations.

Funny you should mention stupid animations. For a long time, I was looking for a way to turn off that unspeakably ugly "wireframe" minimize animation for windows in Gnome2. I mean, it looked like something from early 90s, and took long enough that it was seriously distracting. Turned out that there was a very non-obvious [blogspot.com] way to do so, but once you do that, your windows will show up in wireframe mode when you drag them around, rather than showing window content. One way or another, Gnome2 would make you feel like it was early 90s.

The real solution to the problem, of course, was to install XFCE. Now that really doesn't have any animations, if you don't want it to have them.

Re:There will be no GNOME 4. (4, Insightful)

masternerdguy (2468142) | more than 2 years ago | (#38321902)

I call bullshit, sorry, but GNOME 3 is fucked. There's no way that with all its hate and problems it was picked in a fair poll in any competition, except for shittiest GUI. I bet that these people are either trolling or just pushing the GNOME 3 agenda.

Unity (1)

sakdoctor (1087155) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322038)

Unity - At least it's not GNOME shell.

Re:Unity (2, Insightful)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322058)

Unity is sort of like if Goatse man had a baby with tub girl, nothing but an elaborate effort to troll teh internetz.

Re:Unity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38322124)

YES! This is exactly what Unity is like. :P

Re:Unity (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322726)

... And gnome3 is 2girls1cup. To top it off, your asked which you would prefer to wack off too?

Personally nothing would be the best seeing all of that. Seriously!

Re:There will be no GNOME 4. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38322418)

Why is the parent modded "Troll"?

There are almost 50 comments in this thread, and I count 3 that aren't saying something negative about GNOME 3. The general consensus is that GNOME 3 is no good. That's exactly why we see major Linux distributions like Ubuntu and Linux Mint rejecting it, and putting considerable effort into projects like Unity and MATÉ.

The parent is exactly right to question how GNOME 3 could be picked as "Product of the Year" when it's universally despised.

Touch friendly (2)

rzr (898397) | more than 2 years ago | (#38321904)

I have been tested all desktop for more than a decade and So far this is the best UX I can use on a touchscreen, note that KDE Active is less polished so far And I've been using also on my home laptop for months , kde at work , and lxde on older computer ... Check how linux mint tuned g3 to keep g2 look and feel ...

Re:Touch friendly (2)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322010)

Have you actually used it on a touchscreen? Of course not. It looks like a touch UI, but it does not at all work like one. For instance, you get to the menu not by pushing an icon or through a gesture, but by sliding the pointer up into the top left corner, as if you were using Exposé with a mouse. Yeah, I thought it was a touch UI at first myself, but it's just a strange hybrid.

I still don't get the reason for the hate, though, except that whiners whine more loudly. It's not a bad UI at all, and with a few tweaks it's pretty damn good.

Oh, and as for Gnome being dead, this is nothing like Gnome 2.0. Gnome 2.0 was bad, and the complaints were the same: idiot UI duh-signers had taken over the project and crippled it. At least this time, the foundation is slightly better.

Re:Touch friendly (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38322120)

It looks like a touch UI, but it does not at all work like one. For instance, you get to the menu not by pushing an icon or through a gesture, but by sliding the pointer up into the top left corner, as if you were using Exposé with a mouse.

You can also tap / click the activities button instead of using the hot corner sensitivity.

This sounds familiar... (4, Insightful)

OliWarner (1529079) | more than 2 years ago | (#38321926)

Oh that's right, there's somebody like you calling deathwatch on every new thing ever released. You talk about people moving to KDE - a few years ago when KDE 4 was released, you, or one of your many clones was saying exactly the same thing about KDE.

Gnome Shell will prevail. It might not look like it does in a few years but it's flexible enough and most importantly, hackable in a simple language that doesn't need compiling. Power users will latch onto that and we'll start seeing some really awesome things and then Gnome becomes desirable. And that's already starting to happen.

Anyway, thank you for yet another very incorrect prediction. You're bound to get it right one day.

Re:This sounds familiar... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38322214)

I agree it does seem flexible enough. I'll not deny that my first reaction was also hate, and rejection. I have grown accustomed to do things a certain way. And removing the minimize/maximize button?

Anyways, I decided to give it a try anyways, forced myself to use it for a while, and realized that on the whole I like the new concept. It makes mouse navigation easier... and I found that the new paradigm is not a bad replacement for the old "minimize/maximize" concept. Nautilus seems to be missing some crucial components at this point, like letting me associate a program of my choice to a certain file type. I can only assume that it is coming, just still not implemented. We'll see.

What I DO love, is the dynamic allocation of workspaces. I never thought of it before, but now that I've seen it, it makes sense.

I agree, lots of little things are still missing, and frustrating. But I believe it has promise. On the whole I like it better than Unity.

Re:This sounds familiar... (1)

Mr Thinly Sliced (73041) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322242)

Nautilus seems to be missing some crucial components at this point, like letting me associate a program of my choice to a certain file type.

Find a file of the type you want to associate - right click properties -> opens with

I know, it's not immediately obvious, but the functionality is there.

Re:This sounds familiar... (2)

arose (644256) | more than 2 years ago | (#38323000)

I think he means associating a program not in the menu/dash whatever tree. Which is cks] not possible in Nautilus 3.2.1. My personal biggest GNOME 3 WTF moment was that printer sharing is gone. Second is probably the decimation of the appearance options, I felt it was a good balance between too little and too much but those are at least right there in the tweak tool.

Re:This sounds familiar... (5, Interesting)

amiga3D (567632) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322234)

No he's not. I remember how Gnome 2 was the end of Gnome way back. I have to admit that if you really love to fiddle with your Desktop it's hard to beat KDE.

Re:This sounds familiar... (3, Funny)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322414)

Don't taunt him. According to his login, he's a member of Anonymous!

Re:This sounds familiar... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38322860)

Oh that's right, there's somebody like you calling deathwatch on every new thing ever released. You talk about people moving to KDE - a few years ago when KDE 4 was released, you, or one of your many clones was saying exactly the same thing about KDE.

To be fair, there are so few linux users in the world that both KDE and GNOME can both be failures without contradiction.

Re:This sounds familiar... (1)

forkazoo (138186) | more than 2 years ago | (#38323028)

Oh that's right, there's somebody like you calling deathwatch on every new thing ever released. You talk about people moving to KDE - a few years ago when KDE 4 was released, you, or one of your many clones was saying exactly the same thing about KDE.

And to this day, I don't know anybody who has done a large scale deployment of KDE4. Where I work to this day we have something like 1000 users on KDE 3.x, and the rest on Windows 7 and OSX 10.6. Part of that is simply down to the fact that I work for a relatively conservative organisation which depends on fairly stable environments for Linux and would be slow to move to any new version, no matter how good. But, that's clearly not the only explanation because the non-Linux workstations are so much newer. The last place I worked, I was also on KDE3. The other users in my immediate department were also on KDE3 or Gnome2. Gnome 2 was current at the time. (Though, Linux use wasn't officially deployed, so people just used whatever they wanted if they needed a Linux box. Presumably, somebody there was running KDE4, but I never actually noticed it if that's the case.)

From where I'm sitting, a lot of the people complaining about KDE 4 seem to have been right. Which is a shame, because I like the Qt4 API's much better than the Qt3 API's, and the abstract component model of Kparts is really cool in KDE4. It just fucking sucked to use in practice.

Re:There will be no GNOME 4. (3, Insightful)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 2 years ago | (#38321972)

And they didn't publish the vote tallies, which means that "voter turn-out" was embarrassingly low. Same as their readership numbers, I guess.

Re:There will be no GNOME 4. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38322576)

I subscribed as I'd thought they'd done something notable and found it was just some 'social' scam to get registrations. I removed my email but they had to splatter three different 'confirmations' at my account. I now have their domain blocked at the business and home router.

Don't compare firefox with gnome (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38321976)

Firefox is still the developers browser.
Chrome lacks the range of developer extensions, and while Opera is very standards compliant, it's actually full of nasty bugs that only developers would encounter.

Firefox doesn't come close to the arrogance of GNOME, since all the funky mods can be switched off.
After my knee jerk reaction against browser.urlbar.trimURLs, I actually switched this one back on.

Posted anon since I'm not pulling the /. party-line of hating on FF and evangelizing chrome.

Re:Don't compare firefox with gnome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38322020)

No, you posted anon because you're a neocommunist.

Re:Don't compare firefox with gnome (0)

spongman (182339) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322928)

I develop with Firefox.

I browse with Chrome, though. Firefox is too damn slow, big & crashy.

Re:There will be no GNOME 4. (1, Troll)

hydrofix (1253498) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322282)

I am tempted to mod you troll, but I'll post instead. I can not at all share your bad experience with the latest GNOME. I use GNOME 3 and Ubuntu 11.10 on my work laptop, and it works like a dream. GTK, as done by people who know how to write it, is still superior to Qt, and the end product is much more stable. Okay, it does not necessarily have the latest and sleekest bells and whistles – such as GPU accelerated annoying desktop effects or an integrated browser. Instead, it is a solid and fast codebase with practical (as opposed to superfluous) UI decisions, and the best Mozilla Firefox interoperation.

GNOME 3 is very well-suited for people who use their computer to do work or browse the Internet – that is to say – a great majority of the userbase. If you want the latest eye-candy and less stability, go KDE. If you want to pretend that you have a Mac and don't care at all about stability, go Unity. Or maybe something else, if you want multimedia integration on desktop etc. But your GNOME-bashing is very hard to comprehend, as I have found it very usable on modern hardware. And yes, it is still the default window manager in most distros for a good reason.

It almost begs the question: are you sure you are not mistaking GNOME 3 to the Ubuntu's new and unstable Unity? It would fit the description better – UI does not work conceptually, and overall stability is something like alpha-level.

Oh and by the way, at home I still use WindowMaker. Kicks ass.

Re:There will be no GNOME 4. (5, Interesting)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322410)

What about workflow? How do I minimize a window? Can I run my cpu and weather applet on top bar? What about having more than one window open on the desktop? What if I want to see all that running while not leaving my libraoffice out of view or closed? Can I move my cursor over the icons and get a shrunken preview? Windows and gnome 2 had these abilities for years with the exception of the gpu accelerated preview. Windows NT 4 and win95 had these for over 15 years. Even Grandma would be frustrated by the limitations of gnome shell. It is not a resistant to change. It is the worst gui ever made. Even windows 1.0 made it easier to find things. It is so horrible and so unusable that I switched back to Windows and will leave Unix on a VM. If gnome 2 wont be updated it means it will eventually not compile. That makes us angry as we dont want linux to fade away but kde and gnome killed it on the desktop. Thats why there is so much hate

Re:There will be no GNOME 4. (5, Insightful)

arth1 (260657) | more than 2 years ago | (#38323008)

... or try using Gnome 3 with multiple large monitors. You quickly get tired of moving the mouse the extra kilometers every day.

Or use remote X11 or VMs, and you can't even get gnome shell, so users have to deal with two different UIs. That's so clever!

Gnome 3 was made for single-taskers by single-taskers.
It was apparently designed by people too young to even know about standard x mouse functionality and the power of having focus separate from z order, nor aware that X is a TCP/IP protocol, nor a myriad of other things completely lost on the cell phone generation.

Yes, get off my lawn, kids. You haven't earned the right to camp here yet, cause you're BLOODY IGNORANT.

Re:There will be no GNOME 4. (4, Interesting)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38323012)

GTK, as done by people who know how to write it, is still superior to Qt

Care to give some specifics?

Re:There will be no GNOME 4. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38322306)

well, you said it on the internet so it must all be true! I use it. It works great after getting used to it. I'm happy. Your unresearched knee-jerk proclamations can pretty much go fuck themselves.

Re:There will be no GNOME 4. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38322330)

Oh yes. Another know-it-all who thinks they know something. Keep on living in your dream world...

Re:There will be no GNOME 4. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38322390)

This is not "insightful" it is just nonsense. Obviously it is a troll. That's what's really stupid, is that people mark this as "insightful." If I coherently say random made up things, it is not insightful, it is just nonsense masquerading as actual information. Do people mark up things like this because they are stupid or are they trying to be ironic?

Re:There will be no GNOME 4. (4, Interesting)

afgam28 (48611) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322558)

What exactly stops you from using GNOME Shell for "real, productive work"? I use it and I have no problems getting things done.

And exactly what "failed web design techniques" have been applied? Can you name one web interface, failed or otherwise, that looks and feels like GNOME Shell?

After using GNOME 3 for a couple of months, I'm finding that I struggle when I have to go back to a GNOME 2 machine and use it. My problem with GNOME 2, KDE and even Mint's new desktop environment, is that they all look and feel like Windows 95 clones. This is fine if you like Windows, but if you do then why not just use the real thing?

Something that a lot of people seem to complain about is switching tasks in GNOME 3. I'm pretty sure that these people are just complaining about change without trying it first to understand the reasons behind the change.

Let's compare switching tasks in GNOME 2 and 3. In GNOME 3 I can move my mouse over to the hot corner just as quickly, if not more quickly, than I can move my eyes there. The corner of the screen is a very easy target to hit. This brings up the overview where I get a thumbnail of every window on my virtual desktop. The animation is fast enough that I don't have to sit there waiting, and smooth enough so that I don't lose context of which windows are where. Each window is as big as it can be, while still fitting everything on the screen. Because of their size they're extremely easy targets to click.

So that's just one click on a very big target. Not really that hard.

In GNOME 2, I have to use a Windows-style taskbar at the bottom of the screen. When I've got enough windows open, each task becomes tiny! The only information I get is an application icon and a truncated window title, which is useless if window titles have common prefixes. This is harder and slower than GNOME 3.

After having used both methods for a while, I'd much rather use an Expose-like task switcher than a Windows-like taskbar.

As for Firefox, the the reason it's losing users because everyone is migrating to Chrome. And GNOME Shell is based on one of the same UI design principle as Chrome: "less chrome, more content". Chrome gets out of the way and gives maximum space to the website, and GNOME Shell gives maximum space to your apps.

I'd encourage you to try GNOME Shell for a few weeks before deciding whether it's good or bad. I had to spend this time to unlearn some old habits, but once I did I found I was actually much more productive, not less.

Re:There will be no GNOME 4. (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322784)

Wake me up when gnome 3 can do the ultimate task of minizing a window from 1984 gui era mac and windows 1.0

Re:There will be no GNOME 4. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38322804)

failed web developers control the world's money supply

Re:There will be no GNOME 4. (1)

arose (644256) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322968)

Yes, no one uses GNOME 3. Apparently No One is the only Linux Journal reader.

Flame wars (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38321808)

i was gona say "let the flam wars begin. but the person above me started the hate.
Oh and I LOVE GNOME3 and GNOME SHELL!

Re:Flame wars (4, Funny)

masternerdguy (2468142) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322296)

My favourite part about these posts is how people get modded to +3 troll and +2 flamebait because of all the mixed opinions on GNOME 3. It really shows how those mod points are really being used.

pfff! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38321816)

what a load of nonsense. Talk about Linux becoming commercial!

2.30.2 under Squeeze works just fine... (5, Interesting)

mfearby (1653) | more than 2 years ago | (#38321820)

... and you can pry it from my cold, dead, hands! Wot ain't broke didn't need fixin' and now this GNOME 3 monstrosity is trying to impose its strait jacket upon us just like KDE 4. As soon as you can make GNOME 3 look and behave 99% like normal, usable, GNOME 2.3 then I'll upgrade my distro. GNOME Shell Extensions is perhaps a first step in improving what is a terrible rewrite, but it still looks too irritating for people that care not for the one-app-at-a-time netbook experience.

Re:2.30.2 under Squeeze works just fine... (1)

rrohbeck (944847) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322346)

... but if you run mixed repos (wheezy/sid) on squeeze, whenever you want to upgrade anything, it tries to pull in the entire Gnome 3 stack - even when you try to just install the 3.1 kernel build environment :(
But it seems this only hinges on two library packages, glib2 and gdk-pixbuf2 IIRC, and they often get pulled in via python7. No time to really look into it alas...

Re:2.30.2 under Squeeze works just fine... (1)

mfearby (1653) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322492)

which is why I don't run mixed repos, at least not for the past few years. Stable suits me just fine now that the fascination of testing the latest and greatest crap has worn off.

What other window managers were tested? (4, Insightful)

Sipper (462582) | more than 2 years ago | (#38321822)

Okay, so they picked Gnome3, but what were the other window managers they looked at to make that decision? The Fine Article doesn't seem to say.

Re:What other window managers were tested? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38321856)

None

What about... (3, Interesting)

Goodyob (2445598) | more than 2 years ago | (#38321854)

I heard somewhere that they're working on a fork of GNOME 2, is that still going?

Re:What about... (5, Informative)

kvvbassboy (2010962) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322054)

Yes. [mate-desktop.org] The project leader of Linux Mint is also the project manager of MATE desktop. AFAIK, it has a few developers working full time on it to iron out the bugs.

Re:What about... (2)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38323024)

Do they use Gtk 2.x, or Gtk 3.x?

If it's Gtk2 (as I suspect it is), it causes a big problem: because the two are not fully compatible, programs have to choose one or the other, and you get more fragmentation (a Gtk3 app will of course run in a Gtk2 desktop, just as a Qt app will - but it won't look or feel quite as native).

Re:What about... (1)

hamsolo474 (2477796) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322088)

i think you are talking about "Mate" which if memory serves is arch only

Re:What about... (4, Informative)

phaedrus5001 (1992314) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322128)

Not any more. It started out on Arch, but recently Mint started using it as an optional DE for those who didn't want to use Gnome 3. The project is still pretty young, but with Mint (hopefully) helping out the development, maybe it will become more usable.

How to boil a frog (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38321864)

Like a lot of people, I hated GNOME 3 (and GNOME Shell) when 3.0 released. I skipped around a little, tried KDE4 (again), tried Unity, tried XFCE (again), but eventually came back around to GNOME 3 with the GNOME 3.2 release. The advent of extensions, as well as spending some time actually learning to use the new environment and making some small changes to the way I do things, has actually brought me to the point of liking GNOME 3 and the new Shell. I now enjoy using it, and I prefer it over the other available options.

Extensions are a big deal, and if they had been there Day One, I think a lot of the hate for GNOME 3 would not have arisen. I added lots of extensions to re-create the GNOME 2 type of environment. What I found is that in some cases the extensions duplicated functionality already in GNOME 3, but that functionality was achieved in a different way with the new environment. As I began learning the GNOME Shell and building new habits, I found myself disabling extensions one by one. At this point, I'm running with minimal extensions.

Desktop developers should take note of that. There is nothing wrong with innovative change, but you don't want to shock your users. If you are going to radically change paradigms, make it possible for your users to continue to use the old paradigms and adapt at their own pace by migrating from the old to the new. Don't try to force them down this new path. Extensions to GNOME 3 were the training wheels I needed for my brain to learn the new environment and adapt. Once I got my balance, the training wheels came off.

Re:How to boil a frog (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38321982)

Another important thing for desktop developers to take note of is this. When they force a paradigm shift upon their users, make sure the new paradigm is better than the old one.

Re:How to boil a frog (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38322134)

XFCE was unimpressive, and I found it really didn't have much of a smaller footprint than gnome. What I really liked was LXDE, especially in the form of Lubuntu.

I like overlapping resizeable draggable windows that I switch between with alt-tab, and I really don't care how much they want to deprecate it, I simply won't tolerate a DE that takes this very basic workflow away from me.

Re:How to boil a frog (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38322186)

Exactly. Until they fix alt+tab (by default) to work on windows, I'm gone.

Re:How to boil a frog (2)

drjones78 (961270) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322340)

You do know you can change the alt-tab settings to work with windows - not apps - straight from the stock keyboard shortcuts panel in all of about 2 seconds, right?

Re:How to boil a frog (2)

drjones78 (961270) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322372)

Have you tried pressing Alt-Esc?

Don't like alt-esc? Make it alt-tab then (even though, I would bet in nearly every quantitative way, the alt-tab/alt-~ system makes workflows faster). But different strokes... System Settings -> Keyboard -> Shortcuts - change the binding to your hearts content. Not hard people. Bitching about non-problems is stupid!

GNOME 3 Wins Linux Journal's Readers' Choice Award (1, Insightful)

omar.sahal (687649) | more than 2 years ago | (#38321920)

I have a mixed views of gnome, one criticism I have with it the old one of it has been simplified to the point of being un-intuitive. When people accused gnome of this in the past I dismissed it! Now I have noted that to minimize the open application I have to point to the upper left corner, no buttons for this. File, Edit etc are not part of Gnome apps they are in the bar at the very top of the screen. Much of this change is change for changes sake, its unfamiliar (no other desktop works this way). Its a shame because the general concept is good. One area (top left corner) gives you access to all applications and parts of the system.

Re:GNOME 3 Wins Linux Journal's Readers' Choice Aw (2)

tkdc926 (1688298) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322438)

I have a mixed views of gnome, one criticism I have with it the old one of it has been simplified to the point of being un-intuitive. When people accused gnome of this in the past I dismissed it! Now I have noted that to minimize the open application I have to point to the upper left corner, no buttons for this. File, Edit etc are not part of Gnome apps they are in the bar at the very top of the screen. Much of this change is change for changes sake, its unfamiliar (no other desktop works this way). Its a shame because the general concept is good. One area (top left corner) gives you access to all applications and parts of the system.

If you want a minimize button on windows, install GnomeTweakTool. It has an option that allows you to select the arrangement of buttons on a window's title bar.

Gnome 3 is people with large egos. (5, Interesting)

goruka (1721094) | more than 2 years ago | (#38321948)

The term you are looking for is "usability designers", something that is becoming more and more trendy nowadays. The problem is, there is no solid ground on that kind of theory.. only a few "gurus" here and there and a lot of decisions that seemed to have worked by pure luck. There are a lot of them making a big buck working as consultants for websites and it was only a matter of time until open source desktops were struck by this trend.
It's simple, someone comes and determines that the way you have been doing things, that worked perfect for you and everyone you know up to this point is not optimal and must be done differently. Then, they throw away something that works for everyone and replace it by something that maybe works better for most, only for a few or for no one.
It's hit or miss, really, pulled by people with a gigantic ego. Gnome 3 doesn't have access to the large amount of user test groups that Apple, Google or Microsoft do, and even the later companies don't do changes as radical as in Gnome Shell.
So, yeah, Gnome 3 is just people with large egos forcing their unproven beliefs upon us, the community.

Re:Gnome 3 is people with large egos. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38322298)

Joel on Software is good on usability. One of the most important thing about usability is that the four corners are used...this article was written over 10 years ago, yet except for GNOME3 -- which doesn't have universal menus at the top of the screen -- no interface has used all four corners. Unity used two corners in the version that came with Ubuntu 11.04. That's ruined in 11.10. The upper left corner does nothing useful.

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/uibook/chapters/fog0000000063.html

Re:Gnome 3 is people with large egos. (3, Interesting)

Arker (91948) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322974)

Actually there has been some good work done in the area of usability. Tog (ask Tog) really did lay out some basic principles that make sense and work well when applied - and he is largely responsible for the fact that the old Mac interface was so easy to learn and, for some purposes, to use. (Of course for some purposes it was awful, but for the target audience it was a pretty good tradeoff - making things they were likely to do easy, and things they werent likely to even think about hard.)

But you are largely right. With OSX Apple seemed to largely forget his work, and the whole usability scene such as it is seems to be mostly off in lalaland and engaged in make-work for designers, constantly fixing things that arent broken, and often regressing in the name of progress. The Gnome project seems to have jumped on that bandwagon with both feet.

Change for the sake of change is fundamentally incompatible with any sane usability doctrine. Even experts and 'power users' get angry and frustrated when an 'upgrade' changes their workflow and/or forces them to learn new ways to do things they have been doing just fine for years. Programs that get a reputation for capricious, arbitrary breakage like that (and GNOME I am looking right at you) are only cutting their own throats.

Linux Journal Readers Choice?? that settles that (3, Insightful)

smoothnorman (1670542) | more than 2 years ago | (#38321968)

Can there be a more experienced and deeply wise plebiscite? of course not! The matter is therefore once and for all time resolved - erledigt. Gnome tre has won the Linux Journal Readers' Choice award! which awards exactly what you ask? hah! if you must ask that then you know nothing *nothing*. Gnome III thereby takes it over all comers in all categories for all time, better than OS/X Lion, better than Meryl Streep, better than sliced bread -- selah. now we can get on with our sad little lives concerning ourselves over lesser matters.

Perhaps its time we act first and abandon GNOME. (1, Flamebait)

Foxhoundz (2015516) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322052)

GNOME 3 has not accomplished anything to deserve an award.

While I do agree that its interface works great on touch based devices, it is not nor will it ever be optimized for PCs and laptops. Perhaps this is a sign that GNOME will slowly abandon PC users. Perhaps its time we act first and abandon GNOME.

OH NO, I CAN'T DEAL WITH CHANGE (2, Interesting)

Meditato (1613545) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322118)

I'm a C/Java developer who loves Gnome3. It's all javascript, so I've created buttons in the Window Manager interface to open searched files in different web services and text editors. Chat and Social Networking can be integrated directly into the notification pop up bar, so that's a plus. And it's simple. I don't need a lot of control, and what control I do need I can get from Extensions or messing with the js. The keyboard shortcuts are similar to Gnome 2 and are fairly intuitive to me.

Basically, I don't understand the vehement opposition here. It's like I'm looking at a forum with a bunch of 60+ Republicans in it. If you don't like it, don't use it. Just because you can't comprehend why another person would choose a different option from you on a poll, it doesn't mean the poll was rigged. Just because it's different and you can't get used to it doesn't mean that no one else can. Grow up.

Re:OH NO, I CAN'T DEAL WITH CHANGE (5, Insightful)

0123456 (636235) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322308)

Basically, I don't understand the vehement opposition here.

Hint: most normal users want a UI that just works and stays out of their way _WITHOUT_ having to write a load of javascript to make it not be shit.

Re:OH NO, I CAN'T DEAL WITH CHANGE (2)

Seriman (775126) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322488)

This happened with Daikatana as well, so I hear. You have to go to option and find the, 'sucks balls' option. Uncheck it.

Re:OH NO, I CAN'T DEAL WITH CHANGE (2)

Meditato (1613545) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322696)

I haven't had to write a load of javascript. I kept it at default for a while, then decided I wanted some extra functionality- stuff that wasn't even really present in Gnome 2 or KDE, like automatically opening various files in a specific text editor based on what search parameters I added to a search term.

Based on a number of people I've had this conversation with, I imagine very few people have honestly given Gnome 3 a try, as opposed to loading it up for an hour, deciding they hate it, then making angry circlejerk posts to various tech related social networking sites.

"Reader's Choice" is not "Best Choice" (5, Insightful)

Mozai (3547) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322138)

I am disappointed in this year's "Reader's Choice." It mentions "Gmail" as the best Linux app for instant messaging, "Google Docs" as the best Linux(?) app for collaboration, and the "reader's choice" for Linux games have been the same for the past eight years, despite eight years of new developments (Battle for Wesnoth? From 2003? When there's Warzone 2100, OpenTTD, 0 A.D., Heroes of Newerth, Minecraft, Braid, Darwinia, DEFCON, MegaGlest, Amnesia Dark Descent, Aquaria, Tiny & Big, OpenClonk, SpaceChem ... jeez.

I think the "Reader's" part of the "Reader's Choice" may be out-of-touch.

Slashdot wrong again, version not specified (2, Informative)

Xtifr (1323) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322266)

I know, I know, it's hardly news when slashdot gets something wrong. Nevertheless, it can be worth pointing out what they got wrong, and in this case, what they got wrong was the "3". Gnome won; the version wasn't specified. From TFA:

"Due to the timing of the GNOME 3 release, it's hard to tell if the victory is because of version 3 or in spite of it.

Personally, I'm waiting to judge Gnome3 till they release a working version. Same as I did with KDE4. :)

Correcting myself (1)

Xtifr (1323) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322366)

Whoops, ignore the above. Gnome (no version specified) won Best Desktop Environment, but Gnome3 won Product of the Year.

Note that neither of these is, specifically, the "Readers Choice Award", though. Those are just two of the many Readers Choice Awards from LJ. So I was right about slashdot getting it wrong; I was just wrong about what they got wrong. *sigh*

Re:Slashdot wrong again, version not specified (1)

S.O.B. (136083) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322384)

Not sure what link you clicked on but the one in the summary [linuxjournal.com] has the phrase "GNOME 3" 5 times.

I have been using it for a few weeks now and (4, Insightful)

Osgeld (1900440) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322300)

Gee for a DE that is suposta get out of your way and help you work more efficiently it sure does get in the fucking way a lot

(based on my default install)

why the hell does the top bar only show one thing at a time, its fucking annoying on my 86 mac and its still fucking annoying on my 2011 linux machine. how is me clicking on the taskbar to select a window in "old fashioned" windows style management LESS efficient than clicking on the magic corner and having to squint at reduced windows, and clicking again?

mounting filesystems, If I am in the file explorer and click on my windows partition a stupid ass popup comes up and asks me if I want to open it in the file explorer!?! and of course it does not go away unless I click in its general area.

virtual desktops? as far as I can tell by default they only appear if something is maximized, or you right click on a window and tell it to move, what if I just wanted to click on desktop 2 and open more shit up?

adding launchers to the desktop, why for the fucking love of god are modern DE designers opposed to me putting a shortcut to frequently used applications??? again how is it less efficient to double click on a icon vs clicking on the magic G spot bringing up a menu, THEN clicking on it from favorites if its even on your favorites list (which is tiny, and if its not on your favorites list add 2 more clicks and menus)? Hell before I sat down and read how to do this the only way I could get a fucking shortcut on the desktop was to log out of gnome 3 back into gnome 2, put my shit there, log back out then log back in again ... fucking fail.

Now I know every single bit of this can be customized, which brings me to my final point, why the fuck do I have to install a tweaker tool and mod endless text files to get simple functionality that used to be a GOD DAMED RIGHT CLICK OPTION!

While Gnome3 is not as stupid / broken as KDE4 (which I really hate) its still stupid and broken. A computer interface should be something you really dont have to think about while using it, and ever since installing gnome 3 I have spent more time getting rid of dumb shit poping up out of everywhere impeding what I was doing.

Shit I accidentally bumped that fucking magic spot on the task bar 2 damned times writing this post, shrinking everything down, making me stop everything and select what window I was using. Even the show desktop spot on the windows taskbar goes the fuck away once you move the mouse away.

Oh well guess I will just keep using XFCE
 

Re:I have been using it for a few weeks now and (3, Interesting)

skids (119237) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322762)

again how is it less efficient to move stuff around until I can see an icon on the desktop and then double click on a icon vs clicking on the magic G spot bringing up a menu

FTFY

So far I'm finding Gnome3 to be an interesting change. I even managed to tolerate having to left-click the terminal icon to get a new window. After I spend a few months to get used to it, I'll go back to a conventional desktop and see how much I hate that. Then decide.

The nice thing about Linux is choice (2)

whiting (163605) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322328)

I've tried Gnome 3 and I chose XFCE. It's not great, but it's a heap better than Gnome3.
I really hated that it got harder to switch between windows. Alt-Tab would switch between apps. Now all my terminal windows were on top. I eventually figured out how to select a specific terminal window, but then every time I switch, I have to think about what I want and how to get there.

Apparently it's good design for the masses, but it's really bad design for developers.

LXDE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38322468)

LXDE - I'm using lubuntu - does what a desktop environment should do - stays out of the way, consumes very little resources, easy to switch between apps with easy to read ALT+TAB switcher. Would be nice if it had a search box to find apps on the launcher but the ALT+F2 / run dialog box does lookup apps. If I were on a touch screen a DE designed for that would make more sense.

no no no (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38322476)

I have avoided the Ubuntu OS update for my main desktop for a while, and will continue to do so. The new server in the backroom has Xfce4 installed on it as of today. Its worth noting I use either Ubuntu or Debian fro all my Linux machines.

Re:no no no (1, Informative)

Arker (91948) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322918)

Why the heck do you have X on a server?!?!

the real story (1)

Gravis Zero (934156) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322498)

Linux Journal bribed by Gnome 3 developers. ;)

plunger to gnome's anus! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38322612)

gnome 3 sucks

The critics are always the loudest (1)

Dega704 (1454673) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322740)

You have to give the Gnome team credit for trying. While I don't think Gnome 3 is fantastic, it has a lot of ideas and features that hold a lot of potential IMHO, and it is growing on me the more I get used to it. It certainly is a damn sight better than that slow and buggy mess known as Unity. The fact of the matter is that the Gnome team has attempted to give Linux something that it has never truly had: It's OWN blasted user interface. Lets face it; every prior UI has simply been aping Windows and Mac. Hence why desktop Linux has never truly gained traction. Who wants to use an OS that appears to be playing monkey-see-monkey-do when they can simply have the real thing? It needs to blaze it's own trail, and that is impossible to accomplish while pleasing everyone that wants to stay in their comfort zone. The Linux Mint team has shown us that Gnome 3 can be flexible, and now that the extensions are live we will see if it is up to the task. Only time will tell. Declaring it's death or success at this point is extremely premature.

Coming from a New User (2)

Macgruder (127971) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322764)

I played with Red Hat back in the day and had Fedora 11 on my spare laptop, just cuz. But mostly I used Windows, occasionally a Mac. Everything I am about to say is filtered through that lens....

I was used to Gnome 2 on Fedora 11. It was similar enough to the windows and mac ui so that I could get around it very easily. When I installed Fedora 16 and used Gnome 3.x, I had to struggle to find things. Gnome Shell Extension [gnome.org] allowed me to put back the features I liked from Gnome 2, while keeping the clean look of 3. I just would like to see GSE as a standard install item, not an add-on

gnome 3.x kde4.x what complet bollocks (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38322978)

What can i say, Either the reader have lost there minds or the magazine has lost all credibility, i jumped from kde when 4 came out since it was a crock of shit,
Now gnome has also turned into another pile of shit. What have these guys been smoking that can possibly make them think a crappy 1 app at a time phone
or tablet interface is even slightly passable for a desktop machine. I do a little surfing for information, Have typically 3 or 4 terminal sessions open and maybe 4 or 5 document viewers open and a couple of ide's. i have tried quite hard to use both kde4 ( but not recently as i vowed never again would i use that crap )
i have tried gnome3 and came to the same conclusion ( it's utter bollocks ) and am presently back on gnome 2.22.
The only choice i have is either try to stay with this and hope some of the people wanting to keep it up to date etc manage the job or just change to something else that works in a traditionalist way.

GNOME 3 (1)

hackus (159037) | more than 2 years ago | (#38322982)

I haven't used GNOME 3, but from what I have seen in user feed back, it is not a positive release for GNOME.

I find the people that like it, are new users to LINUX and never used GNOME 2.

If you previously used GNOME 2, most people don't like GNOME 3.

But, everyone knows, there will be a GNOME 4 and like the KDE 4 release, which was a disaster I think, things will improve.

-Hack

Window managers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38323020)

I'll stick with Enlightenment, thanks.

ED article suggestion for Gnome 3: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38323032)

Gnome 3 (or more commonly known as, Vista for Linux) is an ugly rip-off of what happens when the Windows GUI and the Mac OS 10 GUI raeped KDE's GUI while raeping the LCARS interface and have a failed abortion (see Children), proving once again that all open source applications are made from stolen source code rearranged randomly with gay little scripts made by epic fail intarwebz designers. GNOMEs development philosophy is our users are stupid, and task based workflows that we force on them is what we as "pretty kewl guys" should do, and thus every new release is actually smaller than the last,[1] proving the developers (aspies) are just removing features in the name of "usability" and instead use donations to buy Prozac and Microsoft stocks. All this and yet somehow, GNOME manages to remain slow and bloated, thanks to the over 9000 dependencies and libraries GNOME needs to function.

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