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Two Lost Doctor Who Episodes Found

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the forgot-them-in-the-tardis dept.

Sci-Fi 150

First time accepted submitter crow writes "Two episodes of Doctor Who from the 1960s, thought to have been destroyed in the 1970s, have been found. Both were in the hands of a private collector who didn't know what he had. Like most episodes of the time, these were half-hour shows, part of a four-part story, and portions of both stories are still missing."

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Ironically, (5, Funny)

newsman220 (1928648) | more than 2 years ago | (#38344810)

We're still going to need a TARDIS to put the whole series together.

Re:Ironically, (1)

masternerdguy (2468142) | more than 2 years ago | (#38344948)

That might still be difficult, there's a metric ton of retconning in that series.

Re:Ironically, (5, Funny)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345180)

That might still be difficult, there's a metric ton of retconning in that series.

To survive Dr. Who fandom, one must not only successfully disconnect from reality, but from time itself.

Re:Ironically, (5, Funny)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345544)

People assume that fandoms are a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff.

Duh.

Re:Ironically, (2)

CarsonChittom (2025388) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345490)

Not at all. It's time travel. There's no continuity to have forwards, much less retroactively!

Re:Ironically, (2)

sjames (1099) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345674)

Timey Wimey wibbly wobbly...

Re:Ironically, (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38345242)

Nigger mods mod up funny jokes that aren't funny cuz they're niggers. You stupid coon.

Re:Ironically, (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38345256)

DRINK YO PRUNE JUICE

Re:Ironically, (3, Insightful)

icannotthinkofaname (1480543) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345406)

You know, if the FTL neutrinos are real, then there is every possibility that the episodes are on their way to a rescue point in the future right now. There could be a time machine in transit at this very moment, recovering this lost cultural icon for our enjoyment, as soon as they land in the recovery era.

If I were a time-traveller, you can bet that my first stop would be the 1960s, to rescue the lost episodes.

My second stop, of course, would be the mid-to-late 1930s, to have a drink with Hitler and get to know him and then decide whether I have a moral duty or even moral right to kill him.

Re:Ironically, (1)

Hotawa Hawk-eye (976755) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345478)

If FTL travel is possible, we could just travel out N light years from Earth and pick up the signal from the original broadcast. Of course, the signal's probably degraded too far for it to be recognizable.

If I were a time traveler, my first stop would be the local convenience store a couple weeks ago, to pick up a "lucky" lottery ticket. Or maybe South Africa a few millenia ago, when there was no De Beers to stop me. It's not as convenient as Corwin's shadow from The Guns of Avalon, where he just picked them up off the ground, but it'd do.

Re:Ironically, (5, Funny)

ubrgeek (679399) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345524)

> Of course, the signal's probably degraded too far for it to be recognizable.

Yeah, 'cause that's the only problem with the plan ... ;)

Re:Ironically, (3, Informative)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 2 years ago | (#38346498)

Of course, the signal's probably degraded too far for it to be recognizable.

Yeah, 'cause that's the only problem with the [FTL travel] plan ... ;)

You don't need FTL at all. You simply locate a planet around a distant star system- or some other extrasolar object- at a distance of 24 or slightly more light years, then detect the (admittedly quite small) proportion of the original TV transmission that travelled out there, bounced off that object, and is now heading back in our direction, due to reach us 45 to 50 years after it first went out.

You may need one of those mains-powered antenna/aerial amplifiers for this to work properly ;-)

Oh, guess I wasn't the first... (1)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 2 years ago | (#38346660)

Talk about a cosmic coincidence- literally a couple of minutes after I'd posted the above, I become aware of this spoof article [rimmell.com] while reading this comment [slashdot.org] .

I can only swear that I thought that one up without ever having seen that article (and some time ago as well), though I'd be surprised if others hadn't come up with a similar idea independently as well.

Re:Ironically, (1)

History's Coming To (1059484) | more than 2 years ago | (#38346238)

And how are you going to sell a large quantity of diamonds with no legal background? I wouldn't want to be involved with the kind of people who fence that kind of thing....picky, I know, I just prefer the lottery idea.

Re:Ironically, (1)

networkBoy (774728) | more than 2 years ago | (#38348446)

easy...
go to the time of the civil war in the US.
Make a big to do about the boatload of diamonds on the ship (of which there are a few, the rest still in your FTL timeship). Sink the ship in a reasonable depth of water.
Travel to the time you want to start selling them.
Go on a treasure finding mission.
"find" the "lost" diamonds that you retrieved from your FTL timeship.
-nB

i'd suggest the lotto (1)

KingAlanI (1270538) | more than 2 years ago | (#38348204)

it seems like going back to a recent lotto drawing would be relatively non-disruptive to the timestream.
at worst the actual winner(s) would have to split the jackpot with you, and if there was no winner, the only effect is on the future: the jackpot for the next drawing wouldn't be as large.
you can easily blend in with the society of a few days ago

as opposed to going back a few millenia for diamonds, or going back a couple decades/centuries to invest in some big company early on - who knows what ripple effects that would have?

Re:Ironically, (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38345694)

You do know, of course, that there's an entire division of the Time Corps that does nothing but stop people from killing Hitler? Without the Nazi invasion of Russia, Stalin took all of Europe, most of Africa and parts of Asia in World War II (which began in 1937 with the Soviet invasion of China and the subsequent Soviet annexation of Poland in 1939). Fighting between the Japanese (who were also invading China) and the Soviets prevented the Japanese from attacking Pearl Harbor, and the United States didn't enter the war until 1952 after the A-bombing of New York City. After the Soviets developed the atomic bomb it was very difficult to stop them from taking the entire world. Ethnic purges in the occupied territories killed over two hundred million people.

Sadly, it's better this way.

Re:Ironically, (1)

icannotthinkofaname (1480543) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345802)

So, what you're saying is that if I kill Hitler, then in a really roundabout way, I prevent 9/11?

Also, I didn't even say I was going ti kill Hitler. I was going to get to know him. I doubt I'd have the guts to kill him, especially once I know him, so the Time Corps has nothing to worry about.

Also, I think you mean there was a division of the Time Corps. Or will be, depending on your point of view. But they have to be an organization started in the relative future, who are patrolling the relative past, so they clearly can't exist at this time. Tenses are difficult, I know.

Re:Ironically, (1)

History's Coming To (1059484) | more than 2 years ago | (#38346264)

You don't prevent 9/11, you ensure that it's far worse. Well....it's as good a bet as preventing it, what with chaos and all.

Re:Ironically, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38346418)

You prevent 9/11 but you cause the A-bomb to be dropped on New York, and that's like 9/11 times 1000. Yes, that's 91,100.

Re:Ironically, (4, Funny)

The Rizz (1319) | more than 2 years ago | (#38346854)

You prevent 9/11 but you cause the A-bomb to be dropped on New York, and that's like 9/11 times 1000. Yes, that's 91,100.

Actually, that would be 818 and change.

Re:Ironically, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38346942)

I have no intention of arguing with Team America.

Re:Ironically, (1)

thunderclap (972782) | more than 2 years ago | (#38348278)

But But Killing Hitler also insures that Mecca and Medina are also nuked in 1952 for the rich oil reserves of the Saudis. Stalin's ruthless purged effectively wiped out the Shiia and almost all of the Sunni leaving nothing but Bedouins. The fact that the bulk of the Jewish scientists collected themselves in America due to the war is incidental. So lets see, Nuclear desert and Russo-Chinese domination on half of the world or Us alone and an insane middle east. I don't know if NYC is really worth the whole of the middle east. But Right now I happen like NYC too much.

If you think DRM is bad... (5, Funny)

itsdapead (734413) | more than 2 years ago | (#38346000)

You know, if the FTL neutrinos are real, then there is every possibility that the episodes are on their way to a rescue point in the future right now.

Look, you might think the copy protection on Blu Ray is a pain, but wait until you get a load of the confusingly-named Hyperspatial Digital Causality Protection that the unelected cartel of the Time Lords require on any temporally displaced media. I mean, one can downgrade your nice 1080p to standard def, but that's not as bad as the headache you get when the real HDCP cuts in and makes you never have been going to see the video you just watched.

Re:If you think DRM is bad... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38346062)

Are you sure it's "Hyperspatial Digital Causality Protection" and not just a videotape of "The Sil..." "The Silen.." *#$! I turned my head and now I can't remember their name...

Re:If you think DRM is bad... (1)

omnichad (1198475) | more than 2 years ago | (#38346270)

Oops. This is funny, and I mismodded you!

"You're good friends with the Hitlers?!" (4, Funny)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 2 years ago | (#38346384)

My second stop, of course, would be the mid-to-late 1930s, to have a drink with Hitler and get to know him and then decide whether I have a moral duty or even moral right to kill him.

Future Kryten: Kryten, we're epicures now. We travel through history enjoying the very best time has to offer.
Future Rimmer: Dolphin sweetmeats, roast suckling elephants, baby seal hearts stuffed with dove pate. Food fit for emperors!
Future Lister: We socialize with all of the greatest figures in history -- the Hapsburgs, the Borgias ...
Future Kryten: Why, only last week, Louis the Sixteenth threw a banquet especially in our honour.
Future Rimmer: The man is a complete delight -- urbane, witty, charming ...
Kryten: He was an idiotic despot who lived in the most obscene luxury while the working classes starved in abject poverty.
Future Rimmer: Well, we certainly didn't see any of that while we were there!
Future Kryten: And his wife's an absolute cutie.
Future Cat: I think they're our favourite hosts. If you don't count the Hitlers.
Kryten: The who?!
Future Rimmer: Providing you avoid talking politics, they're an absolute hoot.
Kryten: You're good friends with the Hitlers?!
Future Kryten: It's just a social thing. We don't talk about his work. We just have a few laughs, play canasta, and enjoy the odd game of mixed doubles with the Goerings.
Kryten: I don't believe what I'm hearing!
Future Rimmer: Look, you have to understand -- we travel back and forth throughout the whole of history, and naturally we want to sample the best of everything. It's just a bit unfortunate that the finest things tend to be in the possession of people who are judged to be a bit dodgy.
Kryten: Herman Goering is a "bit dodgy"! What has become of you all? You've all abandoned your morals, been seduced by power and wealth. All you're interested in now is indulging your carnal desires.
Future Rimmer: And could we tell you some stories about _that_!
Kryten: I don't recognize any of you! You're just amoral self- serving _scum_, freeloading your way through history!
Future Kryten: Good grief! I can't believe I used to be such a stuck-up pompous prig.

Re:Ironically, (3, Insightful)

pwileyii (106242) | more than 2 years ago | (#38346304)

Actually, what we need is an alien from the planet Omicron Persei 8 (they'd actually have to be closer because that is 1000 light years away) to have recorded all of Earth broadcasts and be willing to give us a copy of them.

Not Really Lost... (4, Funny)

kiehlster (844523) | more than 2 years ago | (#38344816)

just time-shifted. Get your facts straight, DW fans!

Re:Not Really Lost... (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345238)

just time-shifted. Get your facts straight, DW fans!

In an infinite number of universes there are an infinite number of "Lost Episodes".

Get used to it.

Re:Not Really Lost... (4, Funny)

Hillgiant (916436) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345382)

People assume that Doctor Who chronology is a strict progression of one episode to the next, but actually, from a nonlinear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff.

Re:Not Really Lost... (1)

tokul (682258) | more than 2 years ago | (#38348076)

People assume that Doctor Who ...

Do the ones, that mod this as funny, recognize reference to one of the episodes?

Glad some found (1)

sgilpin80 (1676150) | more than 2 years ago | (#38344818)

It always amazes me how things like these can be lost.

Re:Glad some found (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38344916)

you don't believe in entropy do you?

Re:Glad some found (2)

NFN_NLN (633283) | more than 2 years ago | (#38344946)

It always amazes me how things like these can be lost.

Do you think anyone is going to any great lengths to preserve episodes of "Terra Nova"? But you never know, it could become a huge cult classic in the future.

Re:Glad some found (2)

Beelzebud (1361137) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345060)

It's already happened. Terra Nova episodes have been posted to usenet, and shared on P2P, so they aren't going to be lost any time soon. What is trivial today, wasn't in the 60's.

That being said, I'm still utterly amazed that they put money into funding a television show, and then literally erase the tapes. What a waste!

Re:Glad some found (1)

mcneely.mike (927221) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345148)

It's due to an agreement with the actors... the actors were afraid that a bunch of shows would be taped and shown over and over and they would be let go and never get work again: the agreement was that they would show each episode only a number of times, then destroy them so they couldn't be shown again and the actors could keep working. Something like that.
Too bad....

Re:Glad some found (2)

jd (1658) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345486)

Nope, no such agreement existed and the actors were furious (Troughton especially) when the news of the junkings leaked out. The BBC denied it at first, then claimed it was one rogue employee.

Re:Glad some found (2)

mcneely.mike (927221) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345744)

Just going by wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_missing_episodes [wikipedia.org]

(wikipedia being the be-all and end-all of my existence, you see, and i am now going to donate everything i own and my kids to wikipedia's personal appeal). 'Nuff said!

Re:Glad some found (2)

jd (1658) | more than 2 years ago | (#38346306)

http://www.btinternet.com/~m.brown1/intro.htm [btinternet.com]
https://www.msu.edu/~gobeski1/Missing.htm [msu.edu]
http://www.paullee.com/drwho/missingwithouttrace.html [paullee.com]

These are the accepted accounts - two junkings (one for fire safety reasons, one to make space) with absolutely nothing to do with contracts or magnetic tapes (beyond BBC central not having a copy) - along with a description of the transfer from video to film.

As far as I'm concerned, the current BBC description is a highly edited description of the events with NO mention of the telerecordings and the Wikipedia account seems to be pure mythology. I can find ZERO evidence for it. Almost everything definitive known about the early Doctor Whos was written in the Disused Yeti newsletters, with articles contributed by BBC staffers with inside knowledge, often due to being there at the time. This link gives you the archive for it:

http://archive.whoniversity.co.uk/dy/dy_main.htm [whoniversity.co.uk]

Absolutely no story whatsoever should be accepted on face-value if it contradicts an official or semi-official statement in the newsletters. They're the premiere source of authenticated information.

Re:Glad some found (2)

asdf7890 (1518587) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345934)

Yep. It was a money saving exercise: storing tape for long periods, in a condition that will play again when you ask the too, requires care, effort and space - none of which are free. That and new tape cost money too: they could be wiped and reused a few times before being destroyed so there was a secondary saving here. Someone high enough up suggested getting rid of these particular tapes and the BBC bureaucracy being what it was (and perhaps still is?) no one further down questioned the wisdom as they passed the instructions on down the chain.

The same bureaucracy did save a large pile of tapes at one point. A consignment destined to be wiped or destroyed didn't have the relevant paperwork. After very little effort to track it down, someone just filed the issue under "to deal with later" and shoved the tapes into a storeroom where they remained forgotten and unnoticed for the best part of 20 years. In that time people had realised how silly the idea of destroying the content was, so when they were found they were carefully restored (some didn't survive, tape can be a sensitive medium), copied onto other media and better treated this time around. Some good stuff was in that pile: not just Dr Who but bits of Not Only But Also and other significant shows.

Re:Glad some found (1)

asdf7890 (1518587) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345962)

I know replying to yourself is considered bad form, but I missed bits:

Of course some of the content was on film, not tape. Film can not be reused like magnetic tape can, so that excuse is gone for those examples, but also takes more care to store properly.

Re:Glad some found (2)

jd (1658) | more than 2 years ago | (#38346396)

All the content was on film, through the telerecordings process. Overseas sales were done exclusively through film, not video, so all episodes (barring Feast of Stephen) were telerecorded onto film for sales. These telerecordings were held in the BBC Archives. The magnetic tape copies held temporarily by the BBC were in part because editing film is a bastard and it's hard to add effects. The initial masters were therefore mag tape, but once the recordings were telerecorded (re-mastered) onto film, the mag tape was marked for recycling. It wasn't useful after that point, since they could always broadcast off the film copies if they wanted to repeat anything.

The BBC's current version of events is highly edited, to the point of being "economical with the truth" (ie: lying through their teeth.) The junkings were a terrible event in history (even the Apollo moon landing footage was destroyed!) but this revisionism is an insult beyond insults. Do they take us for fools? (You don't have to answer, it's bloody obvious they do or they wouldn't be revising extremely well-documented events to make themselves look better.)

Re:Glad some found (1)

mattack2 (1165421) | more than 2 years ago | (#38347274)

Translation for us Yanks: telerecording == Kinescope.

(lift == elevator, flat == apartment, boot == trunk, etc.. heh heh.. These ones are meant jokingly as they're the ones most people know.)

Re:Glad some found (1)

asdf7890 (1518587) | more than 2 years ago | (#38347694)

You missed tomato == tomato.

Re:Glad some found (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345192)

That being said, I'm still utterly amazed that they put money into funding a television show, and then literally erase the tapes. What a waste!

Tapes were expensive and there was no home video market. Who would want to see re-runs of a cheap TV show for kids from five years ago?

Didn't NASA record over the original Apollo 11 tapes? They spent billions to make those.

Re:Glad some found (4, Insightful)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345286)

Across the pond, the American film industry routinely destroyed films after they had been run through theatres in the 1930's, 40's and 50's. Storing film required space and controlled atmosphere so many originals were burned in backlots rather than keep them. Most studios had no plan to redistribute or broadcast on television. Such was their vision. Makes the whole MPAA issue over copying sound laughable, doesn't it?

Re:Glad some found (1)

sjames (1099) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345700)

It happened all the time. So much for their bargain with the public domain.

Re:Glad some found (2)

0123456 (636235) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345718)

The British film industry did that too; the original 'Wicker Man' negatives are believed to be buried under the M4 motorway as a lot of old film cans were apparently thrown in there as landfill.

Re:Glad some found (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38345946)

danish tv too, several of the childrens tv series danish television made and produced when I was a kids not longer exist because the video tapes were reused

Re:Glad some found (1)

Reasonable Facsimile (2478544) | more than 2 years ago | (#38346718)

The British film industry did that too; the original 'Wicker Man' negatives are believed to be buried under the M4 motorway as a lot of old film cans were apparently thrown in there as landfill.

Can we replace a few of those canisters with Nicolas Cage?

Re:Glad some found (2)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345930)

Not only that, but pre-1940's nitrate film [wikipedia.org] was actually very dangerous to keep around in archives. Keeping highly unstable and flammable film stock around in your archive was like storing your valuable book collection amongst a bunch of oily rags and gasoline cans.

Re:Glad some found (1)

Truekaiser (724672) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345058)

what amazes me more is that the media are still trying to crack down on people who copy movie's and tv shows. yet here we are the bbc is 'relying' on those 'same' people they call 'pirates' to refill their own archives which they purged of stuff they thought was worthless. maybe they should just let people copy, for at least the reason being if the official archives are lost or destroyed there are copies to restore them.

Re:Glad some found (2)

Vanders (110092) | more than 2 years ago | (#38346490)

To be fair, the BBC are far more pragmatic about copying than most other broadcasters. For example, Top Gear is the most downloaded show on the internet, and they've referenced this fact a couple of times in the show. The only action I've ever known them to take over that is to shut down a few websites who hosted every single episode ever, which was frankly taking the piss just a little bit anyway.

Re:Glad some found (1)

newcastlejon (1483695) | more than 2 years ago | (#38346964)

In light of how woefully sparse iPlayer is in terms of the BBC's back catalogue (take a look [bbc.co.uk] ) I'd like to see a test case of a UK resident sharing programmes with their countrymen. In principle, I don't see how Aunty could complain about us sharing between ourselves what we've already paid for. By way of comparison take a look at 4oD, another catch-up service from another free* UK broadcaster.

Of course, ensuring that only UK residents can access such a P2P system, there's the rub.

*They get a portion of the license fee, I believe, but supplement it with advertiser revenue.

Re:Glad some found (2)

jd (1658) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345126)

The BBC Archives junked a lot of its black-and-white archives on the grounds that nobody watches that stuff. There is some disagreement over whether the archives were junked once or twice. The BBC article linked to notes that the BBC itself reused mag tape recordings -- whilst this is true, it is extremely disingenuous, as the BBC is not the same thing as the BBC Archives. The BBC Archives used film - the telesnaps that exist are photos taken directly off the film copies.

What amazes me (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38345154)

is that the same industry demands 100 year copyrights and complete control (DRM) of the works they sell, but they'll still lose the stuff that they produce that is soooo valuable, they MUST get government to crack down on it...

Re:What amazes me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38347062)

is that the same industry demands 100 year copyrights and complete control (DRM) of the works they sell, but they'll still lose the stuff that they produce that is soooo valuable, they MUST get government to crack down on it...

We're talking about the BBC, not Disney. I don't know where you're coming from viz. demanding hundred-year terms, but DRM is admittedly a bitter pill to swallow.

What amazes me is how many people jump instantly into a discussion of the BBC without the first idea of how they actually operate. We Brits are often quite touchy when it comes to denigrating our Auntie Beeb; she's a cornerstone of our society.

Re:Glad some found (1)

osu-neko (2604) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345692)

It always amazes me how things like these can be lost.

In more barbaric times, storing large amounts of data was expensive. Saving every last bit wasn't a matter of course, it was a virtual impossibility (at least to do economically).

Other missing material (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38344846)

Theres a list of missing episodes on this website [paullee.com] but it hasn't yet been updated to include the new discoveries. With the finding of "The Underwater Menace" part 2, we now have a new "earliest surviving episode to feature Patrick Troughton." Hopefully the BBC can do their usual magic to restore these episode...there are apparently bits missing.

Re:Other missing material (1)

mccalli (323026) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345376)

With the finding of "The Underwater Menace" part 2, we now have a new "earliest surviving episode to feature Patrick Troughton."

Yeah...but having seen The Underwater Menace, I'm not terribly sure he'd thank us for it...

Cheers,
Ian

Re:Other missing material (1)

fermion (181285) | more than 2 years ago | (#38346938)

Given that so much of the first and second doctor were basically kids serials with low production value, I am not as occupied with these episodes as I once was. I own and watch many of these early episodes, and pretty much agree there is a good reason why most of the doctor reruns shy from these early episodes. While there are a few that are remarkable, most seem to suffer from the 'have to get an episode out not matter how lame' syndrome. It is instructive to look at how many episodes were shot for those early series as how many are shot now.

On exception is Marco Polo, which appears to be high budget show for the series. If that were found it would be a wonderful and exciting day for fans of the Doctor.

Its always the last place I look.... (0)

slashpot (11017) | more than 2 years ago | (#38344864)

.... in my pants!

National Archives of Australia have them anyway? (1)

thegoldenear (323630) | more than 2 years ago | (#38344880)

"Fresh scans of the missing material have been made by the National Archives of Australia and will be incorporated into the restored episodes ahead of a DVD release."

If they're missing, how can the National Archives of Australia be scanning them?

Re:National Archives of Australia have them anyway (1)

srepetsk (1236556) | more than 2 years ago | (#38344930)

Fan groups and the BBC have released reconstructions of missing episodes, matching photographs from the episodes with the soundtracks. Two episodes of The Invasion were reconstructed using animation and released with the surviving episodes of that serial on DVD. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_missing_episodes)

Re:National Archives of Australia have them anyway (1)

Yobgod Ababua (68687) | more than 2 years ago | (#38344942)

Because writers are sloppy and occasionally omit the word "previously", as in "previously missing material".

But yes... ha ha. Aussies will apparently make fresh scans of nothing. *guffaw*

Re:National Archives of Australia have them anyway (1)

crow (16139) | more than 2 years ago | (#38344958)

I believe they recovered scenes from a lot of lost episodes from Australia. What happened is that the censors were quite strict in Australia, but as part of censoring episodes, they kept the clips that they cut.

All the lost episodes have fan-made recreations, using the original soundtracks (people recorded them when they broadcast), still photos taken during the filming, and recovered scenes. Some of them are pretty good, though most are painful to watch.

Re:National Archives of Australia have them anyway (1)

jd (1658) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345530)

They almost never used photos from the filming, they used telesnaps which were made from the film copies in the BBC Archives (distinct from the mag tape copes the BBC mentions in the article). Two copies were supposed to be kept of every program broadcast over a period of time, after that period the Archives would retain the film copy and the BBC would reuse its tape.

The only episode never to have been transferred onto tape was Feat of Stephen from Dalek Masterplan.

Re:National Archives of Australia have them anyway (1)

jd (1658) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345546)

Damn keyboard, that's Feast of Stephen.

Re:National Archives of Australia have them anyway (1)

coolmadsi (823103) | more than 2 years ago | (#38344966)

"Fresh scans of the missing material have been made by the National Archives of Australia and will be incorporated into the restored episodes ahead of a DVD release."

If they're missing, how can the National Archives of Australia be scanning them?

They were previously missing and now have a better version.

There have also been some of the old missing episodes available online, using photo stills and audio tape recordings of episodes, as opposed to the original broadcast.

Re:National Archives of Australia have them anyway (1)

laura20 (21566) | more than 2 years ago | (#38344986)

The recovered episodes are broadcast versions from Australia, which had bits censored out of them. The Australian censorship board was very diligent about filing the sections they snipped out, however, so those segments still exist, we just didn't have the rest of the episodes until now. Now they can rejoin the edited version + copies of the censored sections and have two completed episodes.

Re:National Archives of Australia have them anyway (1)

sjames (1099) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345772)

Now that's irony! Thanks to the censorship board, those censored moments will; live forever!

Re:National Archives of Australia have them anyway (1)

turbidostato (878842) | more than 2 years ago | (#38346656)

"The recovered episodes are broadcast versions from Australia, which had bits censored out of them."

Are you kidding me? Please pay attention that I come from a country with a dictatorship back then. Are you truly telling me there were something to be censored out of a Dr. Who episode from the sixties!? I think even Franco would be surprised to know.

Re:National Archives of Australia have them anyway (2)

Robadob (1800074) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345064)

In October 1996, Australian Doctor Who fans Damian Shanahan and Ellen Parry discovered a collection of the censored clips – several from missing episodes which do not exist in their entirety – in the records of the National Archives of Australia.[12] The clips had been sent by the Commonwealth Film Censorship Board (now the Office of Film and Literature Classification) to the Archives as evidence of the required edits having been made.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_missing_episodes#Censor_clips [wikipedia.org]

collecting (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38344924)

Man, that doctor who series is so damn expensive. I have a complete known collection of stargate, sanctuary, star wars, and others I can't think at the moment, but when I walk past the movie isle at frys, and I see the price and size of DR WHO, I just keep walking every time. That's the fucking truth.

Re:collecting (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38345080)

You're not supposed to buy the whole thing! You pick a favorite doctor, buy that doctor's seasons, and simply pretend the rest don't exist!

Re:collecting (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345150)

Or just torrent the whole thing and call it good.

Re:collecting (1)

Noughmad (1044096) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345160)

You're not supposed to buy the whole thing! You pick a favorite doctor, buy that doctor's seasons, and simply pirate the rest

FTFY

Re:collecting (1)

jd (1658) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345566)

It's not pirating if you go back in time and watch them before they were made.

Re:collecting (1)

isorox (205688) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345880)

You're not supposed to buy the whole thing! You pick a favorite doctor, buy that doctor's seasons, and simply pretend the rest don't exist!

My collection's pretty dismal -- Christopher "Lots of planets have a north" Eccleston is the best.

That said, the Paul McGann fans would have even less!

Re:collecting (1)

Sleepy (4551) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345646)

What the frell? No Farscape??

Re:collecting (1)

mattack2 (1165421) | more than 2 years ago | (#38347454)

I have the same feeling about the various Trek series. They're over $70/season (single data point of TOS season 1 on Amazon). If they were in the $20-ish/season range of most shows, I'd likely buy them all, even though I admittedly don't re-watch things often.

(...and I hope "Blake's 7" is released on DVD or BluRay in the US at some point.. It's another one I'd love to collect.)

The original broadcast is still out there (1)

Jens Bergqvist (20661) | more than 2 years ago | (#38344934)

The primary mission of the very first FTL flight should be to fly exactly the distance required to record the remaining missing episodes! :-)

Re:The original broadcast is still out there (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38345054)

And when we invent Time-travel, it's trivial to fetch them.

Missing Episodes are Cool! Really (1)

wolverine1999 (126497) | more than 2 years ago | (#38344944)

This news is really cool! I always thought some tv stations (eg pbs in malta) still had some lost episodes stored somewhere.....

Don't forget the ones being recovered from Space! (2, Interesting)

viper21 (16860) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345030)

Re:Don't forget the ones being recovered from Spac (4, Informative)

The Raven (30575) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345122)

Burning mod points here, but I apologize... that was a hoax [combom.co.uk] . I suspected when I saw the original note and it was dated April 1st.

Re:Don't forget the ones being recovered from Spac (-1)

cyborg_monkey (150790) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345158)

Wow! You are so smart! Thanks for point that out you mouth-breathing fuckwit.

Re:Don't forget the ones being recovered from Spac (1)

Thud457 (234763) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345298)

We demand you produce the one called McNeal.

Re:Don't forget the ones being recovered from Spac (1)

ddd0004 (1984672) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345542)

Great, so now space is saying "We don't want your junk. Take it back!"

They didn't exist until yesterday... (1)

forkfail (228161) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345052)

... at which point, they had always existed.

if Dr. Who didn't suck... (-1, Troll)

chrisj_0 (825246) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345104)

it would be a lot better news.

Re:if Dr. Who didn't suck... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38345438)

Yeah, you're so cool. You hate what the rest of us like.

Could this be happening becauses of this... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38345174)

trivial (0)

bricko (1052210) | more than 2 years ago | (#38345244)

woot, woot

The problem with overly restrictive copyright (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38345850)

This illustrates the problem with overly restrictive copyright. Rather than increase the amount of public works, it decreases them. The same studios that bitch about piracy love them when it comes to old crap they lost. Its happened with Dr. Who, nostalgic cartoons, etc. When companies control ALL the use of their products, everyone suffers. There is a reason that there is fair use in the copyright code.

This also shows the importance of backing up and not having a single point of failure. Something much cheaper when many people have copies of your work. I predict that there will be many more "lost" episodes in the future of TV, now that DRM is on the increase and becoming more insidious. All they have to do is lose the one "master" copy of a program and it is gone forever. That is until they go begging to the pirates once again.

Makes you wonder what the world would be like today if Sony v. Universal [wikipedia.org] came out the other direction.

blink (1)

bregmata (1749266) | more than 2 years ago | (#38346360)

In these "recovered" tapes, does The Doctor give instructions to not blink? Don't even blink? Blink and you're dead?

If my math is correct (1)

drainbramage (588291) | more than 2 years ago | (#38346994)

This makes 2 more episodes I will never watch, for a total of any.
Sure, 'friends' tried to make me watch a couple of times, but it made my brain hurt, and not in a good way.
Guess I didn't care for the show.
For some reason I liked 'The Prisoner'.
Was that English or American based on English?

FUCK YES (1)

atari2600a (1892574) | more than 2 years ago | (#38347582)

While I hadn't gotten around to that 2nd serial, I've seen the first one from those douchebags at Loose Cannon that don't believe in public domain or digital copies (I've even seen them discourage OTHER restorers with absolutely no relation to them from releasing into the public domain at all!) This was one of my favorite lost serials, along w/ the Marco Polo one.
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