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Belgium Anti-Piracy Group Expands Attack On Access To the Pirate Bay

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the new-links-will-sprout-in-brussels dept.

Censorship 159

bs0d3 writes "The Belgian Anti-Piracy Federation (BAF), has been threatening ISPs into expanding their blockade of thepiratebay. Recently they have been sending threatening letters to various other ISPs which were not involved with the original judgment to block thepiratebay. The letter 'kindly requests' that all ISPs voluntarily block thepiratebay, or BAF will bring legal action against them. The ISP BASE has succumbed to these legal threats. Also, many of the same Belgian ISPs have taken it one step further and also blocked the DNS for depiraatbaai.be. depiraatbaai.be was setup by thepiratebay as an alternative domain which directs users to the piratebay's servers to circumvent DNS censorship. For those who can't wait for The Pirate Bay to set up new alternative domains, a full working mirror of the site still exists at malaysiabay.org, which was originally set up to circumvent the piratebay block in Malaysia."

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Constant Pirate Bay news (1, Funny)

bonch (38532) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407356)

Why does Slashdot report on Pirate Bay so much? Almost like it's pro-piracy or something. The summary even helpfully provides links to Pirate Bay mirrors.

Don't hurt me; just asking.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (1)

luther349 (645380) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407386)

piratbay is the number 1 site for media to attack and governments to attempt to censure. yes its all just a witch hunt by the media company's and there dieing business models because when something does come alone with a hey this works and people will pay netflicks anyone they kill them off with shit deals and insane fees.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (5, Interesting)

GoodNewsJimDotCom (2244874) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407400)

Slashdot links to Pirate Bay? That is illegal in ProtectIP. But so is linking to Google, Facebook or Twitter which in turn links to PirateBay. And many congressmen link to these sites too! ProtectIp is a case of a law where everyone is a criminal, so let us pick and choose who we want to censor. This puts power into special interest groups, takes free speech away from anyone the special interest group wants. Someone should compile a list of every single Congressman who was in favor of ProtectIp and post them here on Slashdot. It will make it easy to know who to vote out next election. No Congressman should ever get reelection who is against free speech especially while being hypocrite about it.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (1)

GNious (953874) | more than 2 years ago | (#38408126)

Can you help me understand this ProtecTip thing?
If you post something of mine (picture?) on facebook, does that make you or Facebok guilty?

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38408168)

Wouldn't know where to look for a full list of supporters, but a list of Senate sponsors is a start:

  http://thomas.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d112:SN00968:@@@P

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407414)

It's a form a censorship and they are giving a way around it. It's like if your favorite news site is blocked you want to know a way to read the news, right?

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407422)

Information wants to be free

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407618)

Information wants to be free

Memes want to be repeated.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (0)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 2 years ago | (#38408110)

Memes want to be repeated.

And haters gonna hate.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (0)

migla (1099771) | more than 2 years ago | (#38408320)

Memes want to be repeated.

And haters gonna hate.

But ideas will evolve.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407436)

Because a great many of Slashdot's readers are a bunch of whiny, spoiled children. They don't understand that musicians and other performing artists have a right to be paid for their work. I suspect that they might understand this better if they themselves were working. They wouldn't want to have the fruits of their labor stolen from them either.

I don't agree with censorship of the 'net in any of the several ways it is happening these days (DNS redirects, for example) and the various forms of DRM that have been placed on content are often a sufficient PITA to dissuade me from purchasing the content in the first place, but I can see the content creator's side of it. If there is no financial reward or incentive, no one will invest the time or money to create content.

I'm not a person who is being directly harmed by filesharing, I don't create content for my living, but I do work, and I wouldn't want to do it for free.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (3, Insightful)

fsckmnky (2505008) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407454)

If there is no financial reward or incentive, no one will invest the time or money to create content.

A society that fails to protect its means of production, stops being productive.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407478)

I thought it wa: 'A society that protects it's means of production, stops being productive.'

See Britain vs the US circa the industrial revolution.
See: The US vs China now.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (1)

fsckmnky (2505008) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407496)

See: The US vs China now.

A classic example of failing to protect ones means of production.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (2)

h00manist (800926) | more than 2 years ago | (#38408984)

If there is no financial reward or incentive, no one will invest the time or money to create content.

A society that fails to protect its means of production, stops being productive.

Somehow I think the human species, motivation, inspiration, ideas, food, work, art, professions, and society must have existed and advanced quite a lot, before capital, corporations, and currency even existed. It seems that human work is not a derivative of capital, but rather, the other way around - capital is merely a representation of work. Movies "The Corporation", and "Steal this film" come to mind.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407490)

Because a great many of Slashdot's readers are a bunch of whiny, spoiled children.

And the rest are trolls and/or astroturfers, like you.

Piss off.

Totally agree (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407540)

In addition to this impressive group think my other favourite is the double standard about jobs moving overseas.

Yeah information wants to be Free!

But not our jobs - that information needs to held tightly!

My personal favourite pirate argument - nothing is lost when I pirate something so therefore it's morally ok.

No it isn't morally ok, you are depriving the creator their choice in where and how their creation is distributed. Using P2P on files you don't have copyright on you are actively distributing someone else's creation without their permission.

It's basically some hand waving that allows people to feel morally innocent. I've no issue with pirates who admit what they are doing is morally unjustifiable - it's the freetards who think it's OK and they're STICKING IT TO THE MAN that get my goat.

Sadly both you and I will get modded down as people "need their free shit".

Re:Totally agree (5, Interesting)

migla (1099771) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407632)

No it isn't morally ok, you are depriving the creator their choice in where and how their creation is distributed. Using P2P on files you don't have copyright on you are actively distributing someone else's creation without their permission.

It's basically some hand waving that allows people to feel morally innocent. I've no issue with pirates who admit what they are doing is morally unjustifiable - it's the freetards who think it's OK and they're STICKING IT TO THE MAN that get my goat.

Sadly both you and I will get modded down as people "need their free shit".

Since we have the means of copying something that has value, we should do that. For free, we can spread joy, information, knowledge and culture to people. Obviously, we should do that.

We should also find a way for talented people creating the content to be able to keep doing what they do and not having to get a job at McD which would cut into their time of producing their art. A little bit of socialism could help.

A good starting point to build a more sane society, where passionate people could pursue their passion while the rest of us could get jobs to afford luxury items to fill the void of lacking a passion, might be a basic income guarantee.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income_guarantee [wikipedia.org]

Re:Totally agree (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38408842)

What if my passion is making gobs and gobs of money? Why do you assume that people who like to work for a living aren't passionate about what they're doing?

There is so much wrong with the fundamental assumptions that you're making about people.

Re:Totally agree (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38408954)

How exactly does basic income guarantee hurt your passion of making "gobs and gobs" of money?

There is so much wrong with your silly strawman.

Re:Totally agree (4, Interesting)

alexgieg (948359) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407996)

No it isn't morally ok, you are depriving the creator their choice in where and how their creation is distributed. Using P2P on files you don't have copyright on you are actively distributing someone else's creation without their permission.

Yes and no. This isn't usually brought into the discussion, but it's a basic moral and ethical principle that for every right there must be a corresponding duty. Hence, when those that detain a "right to copy" fail in fulfilling the corresponding "duty to copy" by, say, refusing to employ all the copy channels available and/or by discriminating against recipients on grounds of age, race, sex, religion, geography etc., it's a moral duty of all concerned to fulfill their copyduty role for them.

For instance, I love to watch anime, and use streaming services for this. But now and then I found an anime whose copyrighter, filled with geographist bigotry, refuses his copyduty to stream to my country. Now, since they dismissed their copyduty, I don't feel a duty myself to respect their copyright, and thus I pirate. Were they to correctly follow their copyduties, and I would never pirate. And, I bet, that's also true for most pirates out there.

Sites like the Pirate Bay exist and thrive only in those instances in which copyrighters willingly decouple themselves from their copyduties, hoping we wouldn't notice such a distortion in the social contract. These sites are, quite literally, copyduty enforces. As for those copyrighters who do fulfill their copyduties, they have nothing to worry. In their case, the societal balance is already established, and working as intended.

PS.: "Intended by whom", you ask? Why, by society itself, of course, in its intuitive understanding of what "is" (clearly feels) right and what "is" (clearly feels) wrong. The above, much like sane laws, is but an explicit exposition, in logical clothing, of the inner logic behind such intuitions of right and wrong. No one is against content makers earning a living from their work, but there's a baseline human understanding on how it should happen. And "copydutyless copyright" is something that clearly doesn't fit it.

Re:Totally agree (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38408004)

...you are depriving the creator their choice in where and how their creation is distributed

Oh, really?
and there was me, thinking that this was all to do with the organised crime syndicates which run the music business, and their cohorts in Hollywood getting pissy about the fact that they're losing tons of revenoo that they can plough into 'legitimate business interests', now I know the artist has full control over the distribution of his works...

Google Robert Fripp's thoughts on the 'legitimate' music industry sometime and what they've done with his works, and he's not the only one..

Re:Totally agree (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38408580)

No it isn't morally ok, you are depriving the creator their choice in where and how their creation is distributed. Using P2P on files you don't have copyright on you are actively distributing someone else's creation without their permission.

You are entitled to your opinion. I've got a different one. There is no natural law that says that someone owns their creative works. If an artist wants to be stingy, they can keep it to themselves and completely control where and how it is distributed by not distributing it. On the other hand, if they release it, then they have given up that right of exclusive control for a spin on the wheel of fortune. But, once again, they have no moral right to control what happens to it after their choice has been made. You are welcome to present your case; but most of what I hear from your side of the debate is as equally indefensible as that of many infringers and merely boils down to selfishness. Your brand happens to be currently enshrined by law. Times change.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (3, Insightful)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407566)

Those great many readers aren't so much against copyright as they are against copyright in its current form - together with a very strong anti-corporate sentiment.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407696)

Oh? And I suppose all copyright supporters are corporate shills?

Hey, I'm just using your own tactic (generalizing) against you. Different people have different motivations. Do you think straw men or generalizations are going to make them 'see the light'?

They don't understand that musicians and other performing artists have a right to be paid for their work.

I'm sure they've heard that argument time and time again but simply disagree with it. You know, like how you disagree with their arguments.

Where has pretending to be 100% correct and being closed-minded to the idea that you could be wrong gotten you? Where has it gotten them? Nowhere.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407756)

Blah blah.
Your music/movie/game/book can be copied an unlimited number of times for free. Following the law of supply and demand, your media is worth $0 since supply is infinite.
So if you still want to make money from it, change your business model. Sell something that actually has value. Make the music available for free, build a fan base and cash in on that fan base by selling t-shirts, concert tickets and other derived products. I'd pay a hundred bucks for a replica of Dr Who's Sonic Screwdriver. So far I can't find a proper replica. Only cheap plastic stuff. I found one that makes light but no sound. I found another one that makes light and sound but it's also a pen, so not a real replica. I found a perfect replica of the newest screwdriver they use in the show, but I like the previous model better. I never paid to watch a single episode of the show, yet if the people in charge could just make that replica of that screwdriver I'd pay as much money as a few DVD seasons are worth.
Again, music/movies/software by itself is worth $0 today.

Also, I'm an artist myself. I make my art available for free. I still manage to make a good amount of money. People donate money or buy my derived products. "Collector editions" of my products, which feature a nice box and a few items, can not be downloaded and sell pretty well. Last year I made almost a million dollars in profits. Sure, I could fantasize all night about the extra cash I would make if I could force 'pirates' to pay me, but the reality is that my art is worth what people think it's worth. I'm also very happy to make nearly a million a year and so I do not care much about making more money by forcing pirates to pay me. As long as I think I earn as much money as my work is worth I don't see why I should demand that more people pay me. And if one day too few people pay me, well I will stop making art and I'll find a job. Most of my fans know this, so that's why they donate money even though they can access my art for free.
I am also very happy for the Internet and file sharing, it has helped me spread my art to more people. Recently I received a letter from a fan in CAMEROUN. He's from a village where they get water from a well and doesn't have access to electricity except for battery-operated devices. They access the Internet by going to the nearest city. He wrote a letter to thank me for my work and tell me his friends and neighbors all enjoy it a lot. I doubt they all paid me for my work but you know what? I don't care. I'm just glad I could entertain them. That's my first goal. I'm glad that I make money in the process of creating my art but that's far from my main goal.
So as you can see, you are not speaking for myself. You claim to be defending artists but you are not. You are either very ignorant of this issue, or you are a shill working for big publishers. Publishers are leeches, they are not needed anymore, they never were really important, but they still take over 90% of the profits. When you hear a publisher claim piracy hurts artists, you can be sure they are hypocrites. And if you really liked art you would know this, so I think you're working for a label and just shilling on the Internet. Or maybe you are one of those fake artists who don't even write their songs and who only care about money. These fake 'artists', I can see why they don't like piracy even if they make millions anyway. But these 'artists' are the people who turned art into a business. Art wasn't a business, if you create for money more than for the sake of it then it's not even real art.

Piracy removes the incentive to create art, you say? If money is your incentive, then you are not creating art anyway and thus society loses nothing of cultural value if you stop creating! You don't believe me that commercial 'art' is not real art? Well just look at what has happened to culture today.
Many people think reading books is not important and is boring, or that playing farmville is a comparable hobby. There used to be a time when even the guy who loved soccer/football and got drunk while watching the game would still realize it was important to read some literature once in a while so as not to die stupid. Today, only people who really like books still read them.
In music you have plenty of singers like Justin Bieber, Kesha, etc. The really good artists, those who try to accomplish something with their music other than becoming rich celebrities, they are not as well-known.
In movies, nothing original comes out anymore. I haven't seen a comedy that was actually funny in many years! Same recycled jokes and plots... Why? Because it's easier to make a movie that you are guaranteed will make a medium profit than to risk failure by trying to do something of quality. And on TV... people don't watch documentaries and the discovery channel anymore. They watch America's Got Talent and other reality-TV shows. Most people think Einstein lived in the 1800s but they all know who Snookie is.

This is all because of commercial art. Commercial art is not real art, it corrupts culture and makes society stupid. So again, if the Internet removes the incentive to create art for money, and only real artists who care about making art more than anything else remain, then it's a pretty good thing.

Anyway, feel free to download my work and enjoy it. I won't tell you what I do because I have said in this post how much money I make and this is not something I want to make public, but if you look around the Internet for free art you will most likely stumble on my website or at least on my work at some point.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407810)

If this drivel is an example of your "art" I strongly doubt you pulled in a million bucks in profit.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (5, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407992)

Explain to me why a bricklayer shouldn't be allowed to charge for 70+ years after his life ends for every house he ever built and we'll talk.

The problem people have isn't with copyright per se. It's with the insanity copyright has turned into.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38408922)

Hear Hear!!!
Or Brick Brick!!!!

The Mortar Man! Who lives for 70+ years!

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (2)

h00manist (800926) | more than 2 years ago | (#38408944)

musicians and other performing artists have a right to be paid for their work.

Yes. Someone has to tell the corporations who are selling the work - the artists have to be paid. FAIRLY. Met someone who wrote a book for a huge publishing house, which sold millions of copies. She received $300. This "the artists have to be paid" is a nice lame excuse from the corporations. They tell the artists themselves "the company has bills, tax, etc to pay". They tell the government "we paid the nonprofits and the employees and the people and the economy", and don't pay taxes, either.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407512)

Probably to make the point that banning sites this way is rediculous: It is simular to creating a road access system that blocks a single car from using the roads in your country. The problem with this method is that when the owner decides to modify the car just a little bit or places the contents in another one, the access system fails to detect it.

When you want to ban a site because it contains illegal contents, you need to go after the owners/publishers instead of modifying the access rights for every single user. The only effect it has is that the internet will eventually become useless because of all the blocking and exception rules imposed by a bunch of idiots who don't realise the impact of what they are demanding.

In a state under the rule of law you need to punish the notorious offenders and never consider to punish the entire society by blocking their access to (parts of) the internet. Blocking access by governments is something I expect from countries like China, Iran and other dictatorships.

However when you take a look at developments in 'free' countries like the US where the FBI and private enterprises like CBS can ban legal content from the internet without any implications, you can't get too much notifications about events that may effect your right to access a truly free internet.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (0)

fsckmnky (2505008) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407530)

a bunch of idiots who don't realise the impact of what they are demanding

Are you referring to the people who think they should be allowed to copy and distribute content even if it is unlawful ?

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407616)

a bunch of idiots who don't realise the impact of what they are demanding

Are you referring to the people who think they should be allowed to copy and distribute content even if it is unlawful ?

No,
I refer to people demanding to block the entire community from accessing parts of the internet because they believe that some illegal content is stored there. No one considers to block traffic lanes on a highway just to prevent people from exceeding the speed limit.

When you have people offending the law you should arrest them and/or give them a fine.
.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38408420)

No one considers to block traffic lanes on a highway just to prevent people from exceeding the speed limit.

The police block the highway, lawfully, for whatever, whenever. It is the kings highway.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (3, Interesting)

Elaugaufein (1758724) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407622)

He might be referring to people who confuse the word unlawful with the word immoral and then demand that all unlawful things be considered immoral without considering the impact (no more revolutions for oppressed people, no more ability to question whether or not the law is correct).

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407816)

No.. I guess he's referring to the people who request copyright bills.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (5, Insightful)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407562)

Because Pirate Bay has become more than just a torrent site. It has become a symbol of defiance. Flying the pirate flag proudly and giving lawyers the finger.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407588)

Slashdot tries to report on Stuff That Matters to its audience.

The Internet matters to its audience.

Tremendous efforts (legal, extralegal and illegal) to impede free use of the Internet are currently being made by Corporations and the governments they own.

The efforts are currently frequently directed at The Pirate Bay.

Slashdot reports on those efforts. Therefore, the name "The Pirate Bay" frequently comes up.

I hope that I've connected enough dots for you.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407650)

this is not a question of supporting the pirate bay.
the issue with the BAF is not that it protects the copyright, but in the way it does it - by threatening and bullying ISPs
there is no legal ban of the TPB site, but BAF is trying to enforce it by going around the legal procedures.
*that* is the news here. and that is why BAF must be opposed.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (1)

tqk (413719) | more than 2 years ago | (#38408740)

the issue with the BAF is not that it protects the copyright, but in the way it does it - by threatening and bullying ISPs
there is no legal ban of the TPB site, but BAF is trying to enforce it by going around the legal procedures.

There is a legal ban of the TPB site (see below), but it only affects two ISPs atm. BAF is not "going around the legal procedures". They're using tort law [edri.org] to enforce their business model. What I'd like to know is, why are the ISPs not banding together to fight this? Pretty much every other industry has an umbrella organization. Don't ISPs?

As for why TPB stories so often show up on /., it's because orgs like BAF in their "Bull in a China Shop" ways threaten to destroy the net in their myopic attempts to enforce their business model. Whether you're a pirate or a boycotter, destruction of the net is a huge over-reaction on the part of BAF and the legal system.

As for why nitwits have to ask /. why TPB stories end up on /., it's because even now some people can't think clearly enough to plug "baf tpb" [ixquick.com] into a search engine. A court has forced two ISPs to break DNS, and BAF is attempting to extort other ISPs into doing the same.

Funny thing is, DNS isn't necessary:

(0) infidel /home/blah_ nslookup depiraatbaai.be
Server: 10.0.1.1
Address: 10.0.1.1#53

Non-authoritative answer:
Name: depiraatbaai.be
Address: 194.71.107.15

(0) infidel /home/blah_ nslookup malaysiabay.org
Server: 10.0.1.1
Address: 10.0.1.1#53

Non-authoritative answer:
Name: malaysiabay.org
Address: 184.173.151.99

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (2)

Kjella (173770) | more than 2 years ago | (#38408050)

Because even though a book is obviously "IP", it's sold. The publisher keeps the rights he got under copyright, the rest belongs to me. In this new economy, nothing is sold anymore. Oh, they can still use words like "buy" or "own" but they don't really mean it, because by their monopoly rights they also take every other right to dictate when, where, how and who can use it. The only limitations are what technology makes possible and how willing the customers are to get screwed over. Not only is it a breach of license, in most of the western world they've even made you a criminal for trying through the DMCA, EUCD and similar laws. And anything that needs permission from the mothership to run isn't even that, it's more like leased until they decide to end service.

As far as I'm concerned, any social contract between me and copyright holders has been broken and pissed on by the copyright holders long time ago. For them it's just about getting monopoly rents like any old oligarch that doesn't want the system to change. Any sort of progress is no longer brought forth by competition, only by mass civil disobedience that forces them to be dragged kicking and screaming into the future. Without TPB and friends you could forget iTunes, forget Spotify, forget Amazon and all the rest. We'd still be buying CDs in stores because that's the way they like it. For TV and movies they still have a long way to go. Kill TPB and everything else will start going backwards, less service, less selection, less quality, more restrictions, more region codes, more "you're going to take this crap because you can't get it anywhere else" attitude.

Sure, it helps to reward the services that are at least moving in the right direction, killing off the most user-hostile versions. But whenever the market colludes and says you're all going to use CSS and AACS and HDCP and whatever and all the restrictions that come with it, when your choice to vote with the wallet is reduced to either accept it or forego pretty much all of modern media, then TPB is the third option. Fair? Not individually, which is why a lot of my downloaded media is also on the shelf behind me as unused discs. But collectively it's pretty much the only curb we have on their power grab because the law is in their pocket. And it doesn't seem they care how many other rights they trample in their quest to stomp out piracy.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38408120)

Why does Slashdot report on Pirate Bay so much? Almost like it's pro-piracy or something. The summary even helpfully provides links to Pirate Bay mirrors.

The ISP's that listen to the BAF are a bunch of pussy's that have no right being an ISP

Anti-copyright, or pro-piracy? (1)

h00manist (800926) | more than 2 years ago | (#38408348)

I guess "anti-copyright" is being opposed to copyright/patent laws. "Pro-piracy" is disbeying the law. Although politically the two opinions are likely closely aligned in politically opposing copyright. I suspect agreement becomes harder when discussing an alternative law - discussion which just doesn't exist yet, as it's not yet politically viable.

But I'd propose that the new law simply say - Intellectual concepts, information, and ideas, when unlocked and detached from any hard property, is simply human knowledge. And human knowledge cannot be owned by anyone, it can always be circulated and communicated freely. When attached to a certain hard media, such as paper, computers, data-recording media, or any equivalent, anyone may sell that media for whatever amount one decides to ask.

In other words, if you have access to any information you think you should make public and distribute, you may do so, and noboy may stop you or punish you for it.

That includes industrial information, technical information, personal information, product information, military information, espionage information, and any other information.

If anyone decides to inflict violence upon others based on some information, they will respond for and be responsible for their violence. Information, technology, and machines do not create violence - violent people create violence.

The priority issue in human society is violence - not property. Economic violence, psychological violence (lies), discrimination violence, physical violence, and several other forms. Information is just not a priority issue, and in fact, it's just knowledge, and everyone is entitled to have access to it.

I believe any other interpretation, such as "the artists must get paid", simply eventually leads to ownership, and blocking access, restrictions, and so on.

Re:Constant Pirate Bay news (2)

bs0d3 (2439278) | more than 2 years ago | (#38408854)

it's just because i report stuff like that, then i submit it here, then people vote it up, then it ends up here. its not like slashdot is hunting pirate news stories

FUCK OFF BAF! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407366)

And die in a fire please.

so sick of these media monopoly whiners...

depiraatbaai.be (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407370)

de piraatbaai.be blocked? Simply not true.

Re:depiraatbaai.be (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407394)

>de piraatbaai.be blocked? Simply not true.

From the summary:
"[M]any of the same Belgian ISPs have taken it one step further and also blocked the DNS for depiraatbaai.be."

That means that you may have one of the providers that hasn't blocked it. Get some reading skillz.

Re:depiraatbaai.be (2)

houghi (78078) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407410)

There are not that many providers in Belgium.
Skynet, Telenet, VOO and Scarlet are the biggest ones.
I am at Dommel and they do not block. Evonet is a smaller one.
Curious which ones are blocking piraatbaai.be

I also run my own DNS, so enough ways around it for me. If nothing else out of principle.

Re:depiraatbaai.be (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407464)

depiraatbaai is currently not blocked by telenet.
Not that it matters, because it's only the dns which is blocked. It's easy enough to circumvent by using another dns server.

If they block the ip adres, that would be a problem , though i already have some ideas to work around that.

Re:depiraatbaai.be (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407466)

on a "Scarlet" (= Belgacom) ADSL connection:

depiraatbaai.be has address 194.71.107.15
(truthful)

thepiratebay.org has address 193.74.22.191
thepiratebay.net has address 193.74.22.191
thepiratebay.com has address 193.74.22.191
thepiratebay.se has address 193.74.22.191
piratebay.org has address 193.74.22.191
piratebay.net has address 193.74.22.191
piratebay.se has address 193.74.22.191
piratebay.no has address 193.74.22.191
(falsified)

Flemish speakers can have a good laugh here: http://nurpa.be/files/20111117_BAF-letter-to-ISP_NL.pdf

Re:depiraatbaai.be (3, Interesting)

ocean_soul (1019086) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407672)

For those who don't speak Dutch: the link goes to a letter send to ISPs that is horrendously translated to Dutch from another language (I guess French). And by 'horrendously' I mean it's worse than a Google-translate translation. On another note: even if depiraatbaai.be gets blocked, why does anyone think there won't be a new URL within hours, at the most? On still another, somewhat related, note: a letter from McCain as a response to concerns regarding SOPA can be found here [spoonyexperiment.com] .

Re:depiraatbaai.be (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407730)

That's some really funny shit. If I were an ISP I would simply ignore it and if BAF took further action claim that the letter simply was unintelligible.

Anyway, let them put their effort in this nonsense. It will just get more people to use alternative DNS providers.

Re:depiraatbaai.be (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407784)

On my VOO account, depiraatbaai.be can't be found. This is different from the piratebay block itself which shows a nice warning page. So I dunno about that...

Classic British style wool coat with replica luxur (-1)

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Why arent these people beaten in back alleys ? (4, Insightful)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407398)

See ? Sounds brutal ? But that was how it was back in peasant revolts in middle ages - when a small minority enforced their rules and interests on overwhelming majority through organized repression through the system they established (political, economical) and usage of arms, there was no way out but that. And most of those uprisings are now considered revolutions that made our modern societal principles.

See, something similar is happening, yet noone is doing anything, but talk. the only difference in between middle ages and now is, back then people were not allowed to talk. Now, you can talk, but talk changes nothing.

does that mean, society is ok with getting repressed as long as they can talk against it, even if it doesnt provide any fruits ?

It seems modern man is much more obedient than medieval peasant. the irony ....

Re:Why arent these people beaten in back alleys ? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407476)

Sure, a medieval peasant had very little to lose.

did they ? (4, Insightful)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407564)

you are grossly ignorant of this.

a medieval peasant would lose A LOT more than you, from his/her perspective. foremost being the piety, the standing in front of god's eyes. because the church have been conditioning people from birth to believing that lords held power in god's name, rebelling against the nobles had basically been made into a sin.

for a medieval peasant even to muster the will to break that conditioning was something major.

and, you dont know what came after repressed revolts - medieval torture. yes, not metaphorically, real medieval torture.

if you are fooled into believing that you have more belongings and comfort of life in contemporary world, hence more to lose - think again - you are getting LESS than available amount and level of technology and wealth available to your civilization at your time, than a medieval peasant got as share from his society at his time - his share was 33%, and your share is just 15%.

http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html [ucsc.edu]

Re:did they ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407656)

I prefer my 15% thank you very much.

Re:did they ? (3, Insightful)

causality (777677) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407710)

for a medieval peasant even to muster the will to break that conditioning was something major.

The only difference between then and now is that back then there were a few agreed-upon forms of conditioning that few individuals were able to question. We're much more sophisticated now. We've developed a wide variety of forms of conditioning that few individuals are able to question. Fewer would listen anyway -- they're too busy defending their particular form and explaining why other forms are absurd.

These days, the conditioned can feel like they had a choice in the matter. It's like choosing your master in order to celebrate your great freedom of choice.

If you had the kind of freedom that celebrates itself, you wouldn't choose any master.

very well put : (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407718)

These days, the conditioned can feel like they had a choice in the matter. It's like choosing your master in order to celebrate your great freedom of choice.

quite accurate.

Re:did they ? (1)

dkleinsc (563838) | more than 2 years ago | (#38408484)

The only difference between then and now is that back then there were a few agreed-upon forms of conditioning that few individuals were able to question.

There still are a few:
  * How many ran out and bought at least 1 tchotchke for each of your family members and a few of your friends over the last month? Something that would probably not be used too much, but felt necessary to give?
  * How many sat down and watched a TV show they didn't really like so they'd be in on the conversations about it at work?
  * How many believe that food comes from fast food restaurants, and have no idea how it's made?
  * How many get their musical tastes from a ClearChannel radio station?

Most of this conditioning is related to convincing you to buy stuff you don't need.

Re:Why arent these people beaten in back alleys ? (3, Interesting)

deburg (838010) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407482)

does that mean, society is ok with getting repressed as long as they can talk against it, even if it doesnt provide any fruits ?
It seems modern man is much more obedient than medieval peasant.

Yes, considering that quite recently (relatively) "complaining" about repression was considered sedition and will get ya jailled for it. In fact, Malaysia has a ton of anti-sedition laws that is still being used to slap down on opposition.

It's not that moderm man is more obedient, it just that we're less anonymous. A medieval man can run to the next country and start a new life, but not a modern man

Re:Why arent these people beaten in back alleys ? (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407568)

A medieval man can run to the next country and start a new life

no. medieval manors (smallest feudal unit) were conservative societies which were closed to outside. everyone knew each other, everyone's families' histories were known, and even the person living in next village was an outsider. you couldnt just move into some place and settle. leave aside the legalese of getting a permission from the lord owning that land.

Re:Why arent these people beaten in back alleys ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407820)

Yes, you could. By making friends!

And it's sad that you, like probably most people nowadays, didn't even think about that option.

Those small groups were groups of trust. Which is a good thing.
So when you show that you are useful to them, and can be trusted, e.g. by offering valuable services, knowledge, work, protection, or other help, there always is a way in.
And this is true for all life in all of the universe. Because all life wants to get more resources, grow, and be protected from dangers.

Re:Why arent these people beaten in back alleys ? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407538)

I've wondered why there aren't more folks with high powered rifles taking out bankers and the like. Or some Dexter-esque like character stalking congress.

It seems that if so many are near the breaking point, the chance a three hots and a cot in prison might be a step up. Might as well get some street justice along the way.

Either that, or things aren't nearly as bad as reported.

Re:Why arent these people beaten in back alleys ? (1)

fsckmnky (2505008) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407556)

Might as well get some street justice along the way.

So if a person is uneducated and frustrated and is failing to adapt to their environment, or find their place in society, then it's a good thing if they freak out and kill innocent people as they self destruct ?

Really ? If the drug addict, or the alcoholic, or the guy with a failed marriage and ruined finances down the street, gives up on life, and kills you or one of your family members, then this is a good thing in your opinion ? Really ?

Re:Why arent these people beaten in back alleys ? (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407570)

So if a person is uneducated and frustrated and is failing to adapt to their environment, or find their place in society, then it's a good thing if they freak out and kill innocent people as they self destruct ?

the above arguments could be very well used to reject any kind of revolution against repression - problems ? then it means you are not able to adapt. problem solved.

Re:Why arent these people beaten in back alleys ? (1)

fsckmnky (2505008) | more than 2 years ago | (#38408436)

revolution against repression

In matters concerning revolution and repression, might makes right.

Re:Why arent these people beaten in back alleys ? (4, Interesting)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407576)

He didn't say it's a good thing, just expressed surprise that it hasn't happened more often. People stressed to breaking point will sometimes turn to violence regardless of the personal consequences because all other means have failed them and revenge is all they have left. With so many people facing ruin, why does this still happen so rarely?

Re:Why arent these people beaten in back alleys ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38408312)

Because a third of the US people are on some form of medication to keep them "normal".
Its as though being depressed and sad while those with power destroy everything isn't normal.

Re:Why arent these people beaten in back alleys ? (1)

Anthony Mouse (1927662) | more than 2 years ago | (#38408832)

I've wondered why there aren't more folks with high powered rifles taking out bankers and the like. Or some Dexter-esque like character stalking congress.

Dexter is fiction. The chances of one guy being able to kill multiple members of Congress on multiple occasions without being caught is extremely low, because as soon as it happens once, it becomes the number one priority for law enforcement. What actually happens is Gabrielle Giffords. And that sort of thing does happen. (Of course, the problem is that the people crazy enough to do something like that are so crazy that you can't count on them to only go after the evil and corrupt. No one is safe from crazy.)

Re:Why arent these people beaten in back alleys ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407560)

does that mean, society is ok with getting repressed as long as they can talk against it, even if it doesnt provide any fruits ?

Society is ok with whatever causes the least short term distress to the majority of the individuals. Doing something about major issues usually involves a great deal of discomfort. Easier to delude ourselves that it doesn't concern us. If that fails, complain we are powerless or invent another social issue to battle. I hear there is a witch in the vilage across the mountain, grab the pitchforks and worry about unfair taxes later.

Re:Why arent these people beaten in back alleys ? (3, Insightful)

houghi (78078) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407626)

Revolutions changed the names of those in power. The common man is only interested in feeding and housing his family. Only when that is a threat to that are they willing to risk anything as they will not have anything to loose.

For now the risks are too high. In general we still have a reasonable comfortable lifestyle.

These revolutions also did not happen over night. There are many years of abuse of the people before anything really happens. So give it another 25-50 years or so and then we might see a serious revolution of the people. Now? Not so much.

Re:Why arent these people beaten in back alleys ? (1)

mapkinase (958129) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407664)

"the only difference in between middle ages and now is, "

That in middle ages oppression meant serfdom (without quotes) and no oppression means "i can't get stuff free".

Re:Why arent these people beaten in back alleys ? (1)

tqk (413719) | more than 2 years ago | (#38408932)

When's the last time you tossed a molotov cocktail? Are you volunteering? If not, then this:

It seems modern man is much more obedient than medieval peasant.

is just you blowing smoke, and accurately describing yourself.

Note, I'm not advocating anything here. I'm just pointing out that you're just a cheerleader on the sidelines, and not really in the game as you think you are.

Dance on Piratebay! (3, Informative)

Ezel (249772) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407462)

This is exactly why Mediaafires Firefox-plugin "Piratebay Dancing!" was created:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/mafiaafire-piratebay-dancing/ [mozilla.org]
  Or is there some circumstance here that cripples the plugin?

(And still there is no notes about how to 'properly' link a word with an URL in slashdots help below writing comments)

Re:Dance on Piratebay! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407520)

(And still there is no notes about how to 'properly' link a word with an URL in slashdots help below writing comments)

This is 2011, almost 2012. You are on a website for nerds. You (somehow) don't know the rudiments of html.

And that's slashdot's problem?!

What the hell, it's the weekend and I feel unreasonably generous. Here [w3schools.com] ya go, wanker!

NOT w3schools! It's the worst site on the net! (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407660)

Please. This did more bad than good.

Instead use the force, read it at the source, Luke! [w3.org]

Re:NOT w3schools! It's the worst site on the net! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407814)

It's the only site people of his calibre seem to understand, judging from my cow-orkers.

Re:Dance on Piratebay! (1)

Ezel (249772) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407720)

It might be simple but I still don't understand why the don't just add it in the help-part of the "Edit Comment" page. Just about the only time I ever need to dig up the knowledge of how to manually code links in HTML is when writing slashdot-comments.

I just do it so seldom that I end up having to search for some tutorial. And since I get bored of having to do that every time (while there is a full URLs-section in the help that doesn't address the issue at hand) I just keep posting the links like this instead:
http://slashdot.org/ [slashdot.org]
Amazing, simple, even non standard HTML, that works and is mentioned in the help-section but makes my posts look a bit crap.

Alternative DNS (1)

sociocapitalist (2471722) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407494)

This may already exist but if not, how possible would it be to add an additional DNS that has rapidly updated IPs for politically (or otherwise) blocked servers? So long as the user could add this DNS to the ISP provided DNS server list it would be able to more rapidly react to such blocking based on DNS names.

The ISPs would of course block the alternate DNS unless it provided primarily non-pirate related alternative DNS services.

Re:Alternative DNS (3, Informative)

znerk (1162519) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407572)

This may already exist but if not, how possible would it be to add an additional DNS that has rapidly updated IPs for politically (or otherwise) blocked servers? So long as the user could add this DNS to the ISP provided DNS server list it would be able to more rapidly react to such blocking based on DNS names.

The ISPs would of course block the alternate DNS unless it provided primarily non-pirate related alternative DNS services.

For instance, google's dns servers [google.com] , at 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4?

Google told China to back down, and got away with it. I doubt they're afraid of Belgium.

Re:Alternative DNS (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407706)

In China DNS poisoning prevents you from using Google DNS. Well, not prevent it, but make it utterly useless.

DNSCrypt from OpenDNS is helping though. Websites like facebook.com now open fine for me here in China. (Not all websites obviously as some are IP blocked in addition to being poisoned).

Re:Alternative DNS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407742)

everyone's afraid of Belgium now! We have a gay Italian socialist immigrant for a prime minister!

Re:Alternative DNS (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#38408014)

Wait, wait... you have a government again?

See what it got you?

Re:Alternative DNS (1)

sociocapitalist (2471722) | more than 2 years ago | (#38408524)

Not fast enough. My point is to have something that could be updated in, say, five minutes if the previous result IP had been blocked by the ISP or government.

dns poisoning (1)

arbiter1 (1204146) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407528)

When will these copyright groups learn that DNS Poisoning as this pretty much is don't stop anything. They may claim it will stop most people, But are most people really that dumb to not know how to use google or bing to search out easy way around the blocks.

Re:dns poisoning (2)

znerk (1162519) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407582)

When will these copyright groups learn that DNS Poisoning as this pretty much is don't stop anything. They may claim it will stop most people, But are most people really that dumb to not know how to use google or bing to search out easy way around the blocks.

I have known 11-year-olds who knew how to get at the anime they wanted to watch, in sequential order, with or without subtitles and/or overdubbed language (as desired). I have known 30-somethings who got confused if the text they searched for didn't bring up "that thing I saw yesterday" as the first result.

So, I guess the answer to your query is "...Maybe?"

Re:dns poisoning (1)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407704)

But are most people really that dumb to not know how to use google or bing to search out easy way around the blocks.

Short answer: yes.

Use different DNS: Google (4, Informative)

GNious (953874) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407698)

Use 8.8.8.8 as your DNS server - works nicely with thepiratebay.org (I just tested)

Re:Use different DNS: Google (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407758)

Use 8.8.8.8 as your DNS server - works nicely with thepiratebay.org (I just tested)

It'll just be a matter of time before ISP's start blocking access to external DNS servers, just like they started doing with SMTP many years back.

Re:Use different DNS: Google (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407792)

and then people will start sharing hosts files with IPs of blocked domains.

Re:Use different DNS: Google (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407806)

and then people will start sharing hosts files with IPs of blocked domains.

Yeah, sharing them on TPB. Oh, wait...

Re:Use different DNS: Google (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#38408024)

No, on the various boards around the planet.

Block them? ALL of them? Enjoy playing whack-a-mole much?

Ok. start a facebook page dedicated to it, or a twitter entry.

Block facebook and twitter?

Uh... ya know, while the average surfer probably won't notice that TBP is missing, I have a hunch that a few people MIGHT notice if FB and twitter are gone...

Re:Use different DNS: Google (3, Informative)

Halo1 (136547) | more than 2 years ago | (#38408076)

Use 8.8.8.8 as your DNS server - works nicely with thepiratebay.org (I just tested)

At least until Google gives UMG access to its DNS server [slashdot.org]

Re:Use different DNS: Google (2)

GNious (953874) | more than 2 years ago | (#38408116)

True, that would cause some hiccups in this plan.

More likely, (short-term), is that Belgacom et al will block access to 3rd party DNS services.

GOOD FOR YOURSELF (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407748)

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Logical conclusion (1)

eddy (18759) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407796)

So where does this 'DNS blocking' nonsense end? Well, since it's trivial to set up, all that will happen is that we will have a "Freedom DNS" layer out there. How do you stop that? I guess you could try and block those IPs. Okay, so you layer it on top of a DHT say. Now what? Either you continue to 'whack a mole', or you make it illegal to look up some numbers on the internet.

That's the end point of this, another crazy 'these bits are special and you're not allowed to see/copy/think about them' law. This can only end with more freedom thrown handcuffed into the cellar while corporate interests are getting blowjobs from eager politicians mubling incoherently about 'the children and the jobs'.

At some point there's going to be a physical reaction to this insanity. Just keep pumping up the pressure.

bad idea? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38407868)

maybe just twitter the ip-address on #piratebay?
i'm sure we can all type-in a number?
-OR-
RSS-feed?
Email?
auto-update IRC-chat bot?
shoutcast with SIRI like voice saying the ip-address? ...

Trademark is a Lottery (1)

retroworks (652802) | more than 2 years ago | (#38407962)

This is like a quarrel at a casino. If you take all the singers, banjo players, actors, actresses, etc. and add up all their income, and compare that to the ratio that goes to the few who make it big in Hollywood, the whole entertainment industry resembles a lottery. It's funded by charging for overpriced tickets. Whenever you overcharge for something (margins over value of cost of production) you create huge incentives for piracy. The music industry should have revamped the "Columbia Record Club" of the 1970s Parade Magazine, given away enough songs/albums up front for customers to feel like they were getting a deal.
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