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Comet Lovejoy Plunges Into the Sun and Survives

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the part-of-brian-aker's-career-path dept.

NASA 209

boldie writes with a link to NASA's account of comet Lovejoy's close encounter with the sun. Excerpting: "This morning, an armada of spacecraft witnessed something that many experts thought impossible. Comet Lovejoy flew through the hot atmosphere of the sun and emerged intact. ... The comet's close encounter was recorded by at least five spacecraft: NASA's Solar Dynamics Observatory and twin STEREO probes, Europe's Proba2 microsatellite, and the ESA/NASA Solar and Heliospheric Observatory. The most dramatic footage so far comes from SDO, which saw the comet go in (movie) and then come back out again (movie)." Here are larger QuickTime versions of the comet's entrance (22MB) and exit (26MB).

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209 comments

we are all doomed! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414110)

It's going to come back and smash into the earth in 2012.

Re:we are all doomed! (1)

jginspace (678908) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414128)

It's going to come back and smash into the earth in 2012.

Quite possible as, quoting TFA:

"There is still a possibility that Comet Lovejoy will start to fragment,"

No telling which directions those pieces might fly off.

Re:we are all doomed! (5, Funny)

Colonel Korn (1258968) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414220)

It's going to come back and smash into the earth in 2012.

Quite possible as, quoting TFA:

"There is still a possibility that Comet Lovejoy will start to fragment,"

No telling which directions those pieces might fly off.

Absolutely. When a single object slowly fragments due to thermal gradients, it ignores conservation of momentum and sometimes even conservation of mass. It's possible this ~100-500 m radius comet will launch a 50000 m chunk at us with a velocity of over half the speed of light!

Re:we are all doomed! (1)

jhoegl (638955) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414332)

It may end the earth as we know it!...

and I feel fine.

Re:we are all doomed! (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414768)

It may end the earth as we know it!

Man, everything ends the earth as we know it.

I could go out there and shit in the bushes and BAM, the earth as you knew it where that bush was shit free? GONE.

btw, don't go out to your bushes for another few minutes. Bring toilet paper.

Re:we are all doomed! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414440)

Don't worry. Apparently we have "an armada of spacecraft" out there to defend us.

Re:we are all doomed! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414536)

"it ignores conservation of momentum and sometimes even conservation of mass."

That only applies during apocalyptic years, like 2012.

Re:we are all doomed! (1)

bryan1945 (301828) | more than 2 years ago | (#38415176)

Great, you just gave SyFy it's next disaster movie. And yet I'm still a sucker for them, heh.

Re:we are all doomed! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414766)

Hahahaha. A comet flew into the sun. That's not a comet. Its a UFO. :-> They're coming.

You can all thank Dr. Reyga... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414134)

for a successful demonstration of Metaphasic Shields.

Re:You can all thank Dr. Reyga... (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414464)

Dr. Crusher was looking pretty hot in that episode.

Misleading title (5, Insightful)

aneroid (856995) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414138)

Sounds a lot more sensational when you compare the title's "comet plunges into sun and survives" event vs the actual "comet flew through hot atmosphere of the sun".

/. worthy event nevertheless.

Re:Misleading title (5, Informative)

MaskedSlacker (911878) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414150)

You realize that the sun doesn't actually have a surface, right? It's increasingly dense atmosphere all the way down.

Re:Misleading title (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414162)

Yes, all the way to the marble sized iron core.

Re:Misleading title (4, Informative)

jd (1658) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414180)

Iron takes more energy to fuse than it releases. Any star with more than a trivial amount of iron tends to go kablooey, for that reason. Mainstream stars like the sun don't do that because they just don't have iron cores.

Re:Misleading title (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414448)

I was under the impression that stars, any star really, is continually increasing its stock of heavier elements. From Helium to Iron, and that these elements settle in the core in a layered fashion ordered by their atomic weights.
Then as it goes through its life cycles the star is progressively consuming heavier and heavier elements until there's little more than Iron left in the core and only then does it go kablooey.

I am not a phycisist, but i guess i don't see how you can avoid a build up of heavier (than hydrogen) elements when the product of fusion is heavier elements?

Re:Misleading title (5, Informative)

schroedingers_hat (2449186) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414602)

This is true to a small extent, but there's a feedback loop where the star gets bigger and cooler if the fusion rate increases. This results in (predominantly) only one element being fused at a time, so you have Hydrogen->Helium (with some slightly heavier elements, C,N, and O can be involved) until the star is almost out of hydrogen, then Helium->Things between LIthium and Oxygen, and after that the star goes boom pretty quickly (or lacks the mass to go any further).
By comparison the amount of fusion of elements heavier than the one it is burning at the time is extremely small.
The majority of all stars (such as our own) are burning Hydrogen.
The majority of all heavy elements come from supernovae (the stars that our sun was made of before it became a star again).
That being said, there is probably a large chunk of iron and other heavy elements (from past supernovae) in the middle of our sun, but we generally ignore it because it is such a small percentage.

Re:Misleading title (4, Informative)

Zarhan (415465) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414606)

I was under the impression that stars, any star really, is continually increasing its stock of heavier elements. From Helium to Iron, and that these elements settle in the core in a layered fashion ordered by their atomic weights.
Then as it goes through its life cycles the star is progressively consuming heavier and heavier elements until there's little more than Iron left in the core and only then does it go kablooey.

"The onion of elements" happens at the end of star's life (or exiting of main sequence), but until then, there's plenty of hydrogen in core. Once star goes red giant, it has a helium core fusing to carbon (and hydrogen still fusing to helium in the mantle). If there's enough mass, the carbon core can start fusing neon, and so on all the way to iron. However, the full range with all the layers only happens in the most massive stars that finally explode as supernovas. And the main sequence is all about fusing hydrogen.

Re:Misleading title (4, Informative)

thegarbz (1787294) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414676)

I was under the impression that stars, any star really, is continually increasing its stock of heavier elements. From Helium to Iron, and that these elements settle in the core in a layered fashion ordered by their atomic weights.

This happens once during the life of certain stars. Typically supergiants, and typically a second or two before a massive solarsystem devastating explosion.

The entire mess of nuclear reactions in a star make the core heavier and heavier UNTIL it fuses to iron. At that point there's no where left it go, it collapses, and violently ejects most of the outer layers. From what I've read over the billion year life of a star this all holds together for no more than a few seconds.

Re:Misleading title (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414444)

http://www.thesurfaceofthesun.com/
Maybe that depends on your definition of a surface?

Re:Misleading title (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414622)

BWAH-hahahaha! Oh my, that's hilarious, the things people will believe.

Re:Misleading title (1)

tqk (413719) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414176)

Sounds a lot more sensational when you compare the title's "comet plunges into sun and survives" event vs the actual "comet flew through hot atmosphere of the sun".

Isn't the Sun's atmosphere supposed to be holy freakin' hell hotter than the Sun itself? Me, I'll just say "Way to go, Lovejoy!" (as in "Hunt for Red October").

Cool stuff.

Re:Misleading title (4, Interesting)

snowgirl (978879) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414460)

Sounds a lot more sensational when you compare the title's "comet plunges into sun and survives" event vs the actual "comet flew through hot atmosphere of the sun".

Isn't the Sun's atmosphere supposed to be holy freakin' hell hotter than the Sun itself? Me, I'll just say "Way to go, Lovejoy!" (as in "Hunt for Red October").

Cool stuff.

I think it might be something like the Leidenfrost effect. The sun's atmosphere vaporizes comet, and these vaporized comet parts shield the rest of the core from vaporizing. Only, this would have to work with the vapor blocking the radiation heat rather than the convection/conductive heat that the typical Leidenfrost uses. a.k.a. a sort of über-Leidenfrost effect.

Re:Misleading title (5, Informative)

reverseengineer (580922) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414484)

The sun's corona is intensely hot- about 1 million kelvin, much hotter than the photosphere beneath, but the plasma is very diffuse. The photosphere, the layer that appears to us to generate the opaque disk of the sun (and is the closest thing it has to a surface) is a mere 6000K, but it's 10^12 times denser than the corona. In turn, the photosphere is about one ten-thousandth of the density of Earth's atmosphere at sea level. This really skews notions of "temperature" when we talk about a star. On Earth, we're used to objects placed in a medium fairly rapidly equilibrating to the temperature of that medium. We realize that some substances conduct faster or slower than others, but overall putting something in a hot environment makes it hot.

For all but the most finicky of physics experiments, if we had pressure conditions of the density of the sun's corona, it would be "high vacuum." Very little conduction of heat from the plasma to a comet is going to take place. The bombardment by solar photons and the gigantic magnetic and gravitational fields of the sun play a greater role here than the actual material of the sun, and thus NASA can be pleasantly surprised by Comet Lovejoy's survival of its close encounter. But it's the wrong idea to picture this comet plunging into some sort of molten inferno. Of course, the sun's core is another story. 15 times denser than lead and 16 million kelvin. I'll like to see the comet that survives that.

Re:Misleading title (0, Troll)

bocin (886008) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414702)

How does the heat from the core bypass the "surface" and heat the photosphere to 1mil. kelvin? Is there any observable evidence to support the theory that the core is so dense and hot? No. The current cosmological model has left the lab and gone off into the imaginary realms of mathematics. This semi-mystical approach toward truth is as far-fetched as the old idea that the sun was a big piece of coal! There is, however, evidence to indicate that the sun is a positive anode discharging into the negatively charged space around it. Gravity Sucks. Electricity Rules!!

Re:Misleading title (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38415120)

Is there any observable evidence to support the theory that the core is so dense and hot?

Neutrino measurements and extensive helioseismology.

Re:Misleading title (5, Informative)

PyroMosh (287149) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414848)

The effect we're discussing is easily observable to anyone who's reasonably familiar with a kitchen.

Ever fry french fries in oil? This is typically what? 350F?

Baking a pizza will typically be around 450F.

Yet it's easy to reach into a 450 degree oven and remove the pizza. As long as you use a towel or a tool, your hand can be in the same environment that just cooked the pizza for a relatively long time..

But any fool knows that reaching into the oil with your bare hand *at all* will burn your skin in less than a second. Even though the oil is 100 degrees cooler than the oven.

It's just a dramatic, every-day example of the difference in heat transfer between mediums (in this case, oil vs air).

Re:Misleading title (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414786)

Sounds a lot more sensational when you compare the title's "comet plunges into sun and survives" event vs the actual "comet flew through hot atmosphere of the sun".

My first take on the 'headline' was: I just passed my finger through a candle flame and it survived.

Wooo-peee-dooo

Composition? (3, Interesting)

martas (1439879) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414160)

What the hell is that thing made of? Article doesn't seem to say, and I'm sure nobody is 100% certain, but any guesses as to its composition based on its orbit? Also what would the temperature of such an object likely be?

Re:Composition? (1)

galaad2 (847861) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414486)

Orbit? that thing no longer has a stable orbit... at least for a while it won't have, until it stabilizes.

have you seen those two movies? its exit is like an out-of-control fire hose with afterburners.

Klingon Bird-of-Prey (4, Funny)

JO_DIE_THE_STAR_F*** (1163877) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414164)

That wasn't a comet it was Kirk and company in a Klingon Bird-of-Prey trying to get back to the 23rd century.

Re:Klingon Bird-of-Prey (4, Funny)

The Grim Reefer (1162755) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414284)

That wasn't a comet it was Kirk and company in a Klingon Bird-of-Prey trying to get back to the 23rd century.

Those thieving bastards just took off with a pair of my whales too. -Ismael

Re:Klingon Bird-of-Prey (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414794)

No, it was Chuck Norris' Chariot.

Of course it is possible .... (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414202)

Just as you can plunge your hand in a dewar of liquid nitrogen and not have your hand immediately frozen, a comet will survive for the same reason. With your hand, the liquid nitrogen boils from the heat of your hand creating an insulating layer of air between your hand and the liquid nitrogen. With the comet, the comet evaporates creating an insulating layer of gasses that protect the entire from immediately evaporating.

I've kept my fist in liquid nitrogen for a total of 38 seconds. (Not the smartest thing I've done.) I had a touch of frost bite on the pads of my fingers where liquid nitrogen seeped into my fist and the gasses escape properly and couldn't insulate as needed. The rest of my hand was just fine and I could have probably left it in there longer had I chose with little ill effects -- other than on the pads of my fingers.

Re:Of course it is possible .... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414642)

Indeed, that's a direct correlation to the hour the comet spent in the corona.

Re:Of course it is possible .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414940)

That works because gases are much less ddense than liquids, and thus conduct less heat.

Since the solar corona is less dense than most high vacuum facilities you'll find in Earthbound laboratories, conductiion is neglligiiblle. Water vapor can't produce equivalent resistance to radiative heat transfer -- enough dust might, but that's an entirely different argument to the one you're makiing.

That was no comet... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414210)

It was Chuck Norris.

umm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414212)

kinda late on this one

I'm surprised they're surprised. (4, Insightful)

jd (1658) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414214)

Basic chemistry tells us that heat transfer isn't instantaneous, that solid objects remain at melting point until fully melted, and that heat != temperature. It's why you can walk over hot coals without burning yourself. The composition of the comet would be easy to determine, since absorption spectrometry will tell you what the tail is made of. We also know, from the Giotto probe, that comets don't evaporate from the outside. That was one of the biggest blunders in the mission. Never, ever make assumptions in science because it WILL bite you. Facts are the only acceptable currency.

Re:I'm surprised they're surprised. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414364)

That's the weirdest combination of terrible and excellent science education ever. Congrats.

Re:I'm surprised they're surprised. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414546)

It's why you can walk over hot coals without burning yourself.

A perfect analogy for a comet that spent approximately one hour immersed in temperatures of several million degrees.

Re:I'm surprised they're surprised. (1)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414924)

Especially since often the "hot coals" turn out to be christmas lights.

Re:I'm surprised they're surprised. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414594)

Thank You Dr. Spock...I Bet This Whole thing Got You Pointy Little Ears Waxed Up.....I Like The Technical Explanation Though...This Explains Why I De-Hydrate When Sun Bathing...I Just Pee a Trail of Used Ice Cubes...

Re:I'm surprised they're surprised. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414630)

The walking on hot coals analogy is pretty terrible. The comet clearly ablated huge amounts of material. If that were the mechanism at work for fire walkers they would have to leave some large fraction of their feet behind to burn in the coals.

Ablation is a really good way to remove heat. Accumulate heat in the outermost layer and then space it. Rinse and repeat until the heat source is gone. The comet had the good fortune of doing this efficiently (due to composition) and enough mass to survive the interval.

Re:I'm surprised they're surprised. (2)

CODiNE (27417) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414994)

It's why you can walk over hot coals without burning yourself.

Actually it's the Leidenfrost effect [wikipedia.org] . Try that with dry feet and let me know how long it is before you can walk again.

Re:I'm surprised they're surprised. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38415180)

Hot coals that have been prepared right and raked out do not have much heat capacity on their surface and low heat conductivity. The Leidenfrost effect is not needed as seen in demonstrations using nylon stockings or other ways of exposing a dry surface to the coals.

Coolness factor re: comet passes "through the Sun" (0, Redundant)

RichZellich (948451) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414228)

At least as cool as the actual event is the phrase "This morning, an armada of spacecraft..." - did you think you'd ever hear that phrase in a news report in your lifetime?

Re:Coolness factor re: comet passes "through the S (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414452)

I keyed on that "armada" myself. Had to read TFS, so see where this "armada" came from. Unfortunately, the word has no bearing on the story - it was just thrown in there, much as the word "decimate" is oftentimes improperly used to generate attention.

One would expect an "armada" to, at the least, come under one common authority, and to share a common mission.

Re:Coolness factor re: comet passes "through the S (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414650)

...and to share a common mission.

Science, bitches.

No Audio (4, Funny)

Cylix (55374) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414262)

I'm pretty sure it was shouting, "Hot hot hot hot!"

I'm fairly certain comet love joy won't be taking on any more dares for a while.

Re:No Audio (4, Funny)

Krishnoid (984597) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414508)

I'm pretty sure it was shouting, "Hot hot hot hot!"

Shortly after which it reported, 'I got a little cooked but I'm ok'.

Re:No Audio (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414572)

Hey That is Really Funny....Really Funny...NO MORE DARE"S FOR THAT 'Big Boy"...lolo....That Comet has to get Off that Meth-aim-gas....Probably a "Crack Smoker" after that Little Stunt......

Re:No Audio (2)

michelcolman (1208008) | more than 2 years ago | (#38415082)

And before that, it was saying "What's this thing coming towards me very fast? So big and fat and round, I think I'll call it... Sun. That's a good name - Sun! I wonder if it will be friends with me"

Velocity of Comet (5, Interesting)

dispersionrelation (2534290) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414274)

I went ahead and calculated the velocity of the comet at its Perihelion (closest distance to the sun) to be or 618km/s which is the same as 383 mi/s which is the same as 0.2% the speed of light, very fast!

Re:Velocity of Comet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414582)

so not warp 7.

Re:Velocity of Comet (3, Informative)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414930)

I think that's slightly above the solar escape velocity, so we can kiss this one goodbye. Don't worry boys, he won't be coming back.

Re:Velocity of Comet (2)

michelcolman (1208008) | more than 2 years ago | (#38415106)

But wasn't it in some sort of orbit around the sun before? Where did it pick up the extra energy to get away from the sun, then? If anything, I would have expected its orbit to shrink.

Re:Velocity of Comet (2, Interesting)

f()rK()_Bomb (612162) | more than 2 years ago | (#38415268)

The gases boiling off the comet effectively give it a rocket engine. One of the proposed methods to deflect a comet on a collision with earth is to shine sun on it with giant mirrors.

Re:Velocity of Comet (2)

michelcolman (1208008) | more than 2 years ago | (#38415318)

But that "rocket engine" would work in opposite ways on arrival and departure, either slowing it down or speeding it up (not sure) when it's coming in and doing the exact opposite when it's emerging again. So that would not give it a net extra energy. Or am I missing something?

That's not a comet. (-1)

catmistake (814204) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414288)

If that was a comet, when it emerged from the solar atmosphere, the tail would be blowing in the opposite direction ... AWAY from the Sun, due to solar wind. Whatever the Hell that is, it is no comet.

Re:That's not a comet. (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414402)

Uh, the tail WAS blowing away from the sun. Take a look at the coronograph footage [nasa.gov] for a view that isn't wildly foreshortened:

Re:That's not a comet. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414868)

Wow, that looks very similar to The Destiny from SGU, maybe this is some weird advertising stunt for a movie?

Re:That's not a comet. (1)

michelcolman (1208008) | more than 2 years ago | (#38415128)

That's weird, in the other video of the comet emerging from the sun, it seemed to be dragging its tail behind it. I was wondering exactly the same thing as catmistake.

Re:That's not a comet. (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414474)

TFA has some speculation regarding that phenomena. Solar wind, magnetics, gravity, who knows at this point? Are you suggesting that it was really a rocket?

Re:That's not a comet. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414646)

That's no moon...

Maybe it's made of a great material (2)

Squiddie (1942230) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414294)

It would be cool if that were the case, then we would just have to make some ships or probes from that. Indestructible space-craft. Might be nice.

Oh my (3, Funny)

lxs (131946) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414416)

"What," said Trillian in a small quiet voice, "does sundive mean?"

"It means," said Marvin, "that the ship is going to dive into the sun. Sun... Dive. It's very simple to understand. What do you expect if you steal Hotblack Desiato's stunt ship?"

"How do you know..." said Zaphod in a voice that would make a Vegan snow lizard feel chilly, "that this is Hotblack Desiato's stuntship?"

"Simple," said Marvin, "I parked it for him."

"The why... didn't... you... tell us!"

"You said you wanted excitement and adventure and really wild things."

If DNA was still alive he'd have to do a lot of rewriting.

Re:Oh my (3, Funny)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414478)

Fortunately any occupants of that comet have long since used the partly working teleport to get the hell out of our solar system.

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Superman? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414424)

It's a bird, it's a plane...

Bill says... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38414438)

Comet goes in, comet goes out. Never a miscommunication. You can't explain that.

The thick grey nylon cloth fabric down jacket with (-1)

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Misleading subject (1)

harris s newman (714436) | more than 2 years ago | (#38414580)

Into Near If the comet had truly plunged into the Sun, it would not be in orbit around it. It's trajectory never was into anything.

Comet goes in... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38415086)

...comet goes out. You can't explain that! -- Bill

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