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Microsoft, Nokia, and Amazon Contemplated RIM Takeover

Unknown Lamer posted more than 2 years ago | from the carrion-eaters-are-people-too dept.

Microsoft 114

CSHARP123 writes "WSJ's anonymous sources indicates that MS and Nokia casually considered bidding on Research in Motion Ltd. The outcome of the talks are not clear. The Journal suggests that this wasn't anything more than a simple idea that came up at one of the regular meetings between senior executives from all three companies — perhaps it could have even been just a casual talk — but one wonders how Microsoft and Nokia executives think there is profit to be made by this take over. Maybe RIM provides a good backdoor entry for MS into the enterprise space for its Windows Phone 7? Recently, Amazon was also considering bidding on RIM. It is interesting to see who will gobble up RIM."

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Amazon phone (0, Troll)

Moheeheeko (1682914) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450440)

So all your calls would take twice as long as estimated to get there and be broken up when they do?

Re:Amazon phone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38450550)

Are you confusing Amazon with eBay? Or do you think purchasing from affiliates and purchasing directly from Amazon are the same thing?

Re:Amazon phone (4, Funny)

swanzilla (1458281) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450576)

So all your calls would take twice as long as estimated to get there and be broken up when they do?

Interesting troll. You passed on three easy targets in order to jab Amazon. Well played.

Re:Amazon phone (1)

tunapez (1161697) | more than 2 years ago | (#38454506)

Sounds like the OP may be suffering from some sort of yuletide rage. It's pretty common around the retail season, spreads faster than green boogers in a kindergarten class.

Re:Amazon phone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38452394)

So all your calls would take twice as long as estimated to get there and be broken up when they do?

At least they get through which is more than can be said for 2.4% of calls on the Phonie 4.

Re:Amazon phone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38452712)

That doesn't even make any sense on its face. Typically, about half of my Amazon purchases arrive a business day earlier than the initial estimate, and are surrounded by so many air pillows that someone would have to put an effort into making them come to harm. In the years that I've been buying from them, I've never had a late delivery. Amazon (and Newegg and OWC) are great about shipping.

Healthy business decision (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450464)

To consider, to look, to evaluate.. and ultimately not to.

Re:Healthy business decision (3, Insightful)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450878)

With the exception of Amazon, it seems like big players of the early 00's who are now considered the old phogies of the tech market is trying to buy off the other old phogie.

MS with more patents - Yikes! (4, Insightful)

Qwavel (733416) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450488)

A brief read of the news recently makes it clear that the patent situation is completely out of control.

The hope was that Google buying Motorola would create enough balance between the portfolio's of Google, MS, and Apple that it would be in all of their interests to return to some form of truce.

RIM has an enormous stockpile of patents - if MS gets them, all bets are off.

Re:MS with more patents - Yikes! (2, Insightful)

Overly Critical Guy (663429) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450560)

The hope was that Google buying Motorola would create enough balance between the portfolio's of Google, MS, and Apple that it would be in all of their interests to return to some form of truce.

The defensive patents argument was only a "hope" on pro-Google Slashdot; everyone else in the world knew that Google was just after patents like everyone else, and that was proven correct when Google-owned Motorola won a preliminary injunction to block sales of iPhones and iPads in Germany.

Re:MS with more patents - Yikes! (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450626)

The hope was that Google buying Motorola would create enough balance between the portfolio's of Google, MS, and Apple that it would be in all of their interests to return to some form of truce.

The defensive patents argument was only a "hope" on pro-Google Slashdot; everyone else in the world knew that Google was just after patents like everyone else, and that was proven correct when Google-owned Motorola won a preliminary injunction to block sales of iPhones and iPads in Germany.

What began with all the marks of a gentlemens agreement, curt nods, calm words of assurance patents were only being acquired defensively, taut little smiles and going about business has blossomed into an all out mudwrestling contest. It may be interesting, but it isn't entertaining and bodes particulalry poorly for those closest to the ring side.

Re:MS with more patents - Yikes! (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38450648)

and that was proven correct when Google-owned Motorola won a preliminary injunction to block sales of iPhones and iPads in Germany.

Considering Google still to this day does not actually have control over Motorola Mobility, they had absolutely no say in Motorola's request for the injunction, which was filed before the Google's acquisition had even been approved much less completed. And that's pretty much irrelevant as the injunction request was a defensive measure as Apple was aggressor in the Motorola/Apple patent war that's now been going on several years.

Re:MS with more patents - Yikes! (2, Interesting)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450688)

Do you have any evidence to back that up? Remember that this all started when Apple decided that it owned the smartphone concept and the related rounded rectangle shape.

You do realize how ridiculous you sound, right? Apple had the option of paying for those licenses at the time, making Motorola and Google to be the bad guys in all of this because they've refused to completely lie down to some rather ridiculous patent abuse suits is pretty pathetic.

Re:MS with more patents - Yikes! (0)

Overly Critical Guy (663429) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450764)

Do you have any evidence to back that up? Remember that this all started when Apple decided that it owned the smartphone concept and the related rounded rectangle shape.

That's a complete straw man and typical rhetoric from pro-Google Slashdot. Apple didn't sue over a "rounded rectangle shape" or "the smartphone concept."

You do realize how ridiculous you sound, right? Apple had the option of paying for those licenses at the time, making Motorola and Google to be the bad guys in all of this because they've refused to completely lie down to some rather ridiculous patent abuse suits is pretty pathetic.

Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? "Apple had the option of paying another company for patent licenses! How dare you make them out to be bad guys abusing the system!"

Re:MS with more patents - Yikes! (0, Troll)

Overly Critical Guy (663429) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450966)

P.S. Android phones used to look like this [imgur.com] . After the iPhone, they coincidentally and miraculously all adopted the exact same shiny black front and chrome frame. Funny how that works, huh?

Re:MS with more patents - Yikes! (3, Insightful)

JazzLad (935151) | more than 2 years ago | (#38451208)

Revisionist much?

First iPhone 2007 [wikipedia.org]
First Android, 2008 [wikipedia.org]
And in case you meant smartphones or touchscreen phones in general, here's a couple [wikipedia.org] more [cnet.com] for you.

If that was too subtle for you, there were no Android phones before the iPhone, but the smartphones we have today are a natural evolution of smartphones that existed before the iPhone. You, sir, FAIL.

Re:MS with more patents - Yikes! (2)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 2 years ago | (#38451662)

Not only that, but they pretty much all look like a Palm III [wikipedia.org] anyway. A few buttons on the bottom. A big screen. A grid of icons. Sure the iPhone has a color screen and multi touch, but the general look of the devices is the same.

Re:MS with more patents - Yikes! (1)

JazzLad (935151) | more than 2 years ago | (#38451980)

Indeed. I didn't intentionally leave Palm out, my mind was only thinking phones. Considering a smartphone is only a PDA with a cellular radio, I should have included it as well as those horrible little Microsoft-OS PDAs (yes, I was a Palm guy :) )

Re:MS with more patents - Yikes! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38451600)

No Android phone I or my partner has had to date has had a chrome frame or a shiny black front. In fact, I can only think of one manufacturer of Android phones that use shiny black fronts and chrome frames.

Funny how that works.

Re:MS with more patents - Yikes! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38454718)

Aside from the fact that neither of the two android phones I've had look as you describe, what'd you expect them to do? Shiny yellow front with mahogany frame..? You're so blinkered its unbelievable.

Re:MS with more patents - Yikes! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38454874)

Kind of stretching it with "chrome frame". Very few Androids have a chrome frame.

Black rectangles? yes! FUCK YES. We have boxes full of black rectangles! Some with rounded corners, some with sloping fronts, some with little curves.

If Apple wants to try to claim a patent on black rectangles, they might have a little difficulty with prior art.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001:_A_Space_Odyssey [wikipedia.org]

Re:MS with more patents - Yikes! (1)

E IS mC(Square) (721736) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450642)

I was thinking the same. The primary factor to consider buying RIM has to be it's patent portfolio. Sure, RIM has useful technology too, but right now, for all the patent crazy companies, it's just patents.

We have seen sparks of the war, but I want a patent lawsuit armageddon out there where no one is able to sell mobile phones anymore. That's the only outcome - a complete gridlock - which will wake up morons like Apple, Microsoft and whoever else is initiating the game forcing everybody else to play along.

Re:MS with more patents - Yikes! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38451664)

RIM has an enormous stockpile of patents - if MS gets them, all bets are off.

The beginning and the end of RIM jobs.

Re:MS with more patents - Yikes! (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 2 years ago | (#38452304)

ms already has patents to do pretty much everything rim does. so does ms+nokia combination, obviously.

so they should do their homework really, really well if they're buying.. if they had anything of use, why isn't rim doing anything with them?

Re:MS with more patents - Yikes! (1)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 2 years ago | (#38452584)

Consider Pakistan and India. Both have nuclear bombs, but that hasn't reduced their perpetual war with each other. If Pakistan sends troops into India and starts shooting up Dell's phone support, India can't nuke them in retaliation, but they can't let it go unanswered, either (fuck Ghandi).

If Google has a large collections of (mostly FRAND) patents, do you think Apple will ignore blatent copying?

Sad or Pathetic (2)

UberJugend (2519392) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450494)

How sad that RIM has basically backed themselves into the corner. They used to have a rock solid product and reputation in the business world for communications devices, enterprise encrypted emails... now flop after flop and stiff competition and suddenly they are on their death bed. Sad, but more pathetic than anything.

Shill alert. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38450692)

Probably a shill.

Re:Sad or Pathetic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38450976)

You kinda sound like an executive of some sort. Maybe a CEO?

"flop after flop and stiff competition and SUDDENLY they are on their death bed" WTF? I don't think you can fail to execute several times and then say the inevitable collapse happened suddenly.

Ship for Sale (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38450506)

Slightly used, may be missing a few lifeboats but otherwise in decent condition.

Free iceberg included!

Re:Ship for Sale (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38451706)

Don't forget "as-is, where-is, local pickup only."

Nokia (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38450578)

Wow, Nokia's stock is down like 50% since they decided to go with windows.

Less choice for us (5, Interesting)

improfane (855034) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450586)

They may throw away the BB OS and we'll have less choice.

I would rather BB exist by themselves. Look what happened to Maemo, MeeGo, WebOS, Palm and all these other promising designs. It's bad for us consumers if BB disappears.

In the UK BBs are good because of the cheap monthly contracts compared to other phones. I think they've reversed the stereotype of being business-only and managed to be attractive to consumers.

Has anyone noticed the ridiculous volume of negative RIM/BB articles recently? It's like some large interests want to kill the popularity of BB. The date of the downtime of BBM was particularly interesting too...

Re:Less choice for us (4, Insightful)

pionzypher (886253) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450758)

While I agree with your point that more choice is better, I have to disagree with your thoughts on the negative press. There have been nothing but negative articles because there's been nothing but negative news coming from RIM. They really are driving themselves into the ground between that nasty outage and lack of response to IOS and Android.

Re:Less choice for us (1)

hawkbat05 (1952326) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450830)

They really are driving themselves into the ground between that nasty outage and lack of response to IOS and Android.

Sure, if by lack of response you completely ignore their QNX Tablet OS (and future BB10) and that they've finally released a phone with no keyboard that doesn't suck (9860), for all those people that never have to type more than 140 characters at a time.

Re:Less choice for us (2)

Tharsman (1364603) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450972)

Sure, if by lack of response you completely ignore their QNX Tablet OS

That thing that cant even do email???

(and future BB10)

Future promisses dont count as responces.

and that they've finally released a phone with no keyboard that doesn't suck (9860), for all those people that never have to type more than 140 characters at a time.

And it only took them 4 years to do this!

Re:Less choice for us (1)

hawkbat05 (1952326) | more than 2 years ago | (#38452242)

Email is an app, not part of the OS. As an OS the Tablet OS is more than a match for iOS. This is another example of what I've commented on here already of how RIM focuses on enterprise and then get blasted. The 1.x release of PlayBook is very obviously intended to be a companion device for a BlackBerry. If it was intended to be a standalone device, it would have had an email app instead of Bridge. You're taking an orange and trying to call it an apple.

Re:Less choice for us (1)

Tharsman (1364603) | more than 2 years ago | (#38453276)

Wow... there are actually people out there that will defend RIM's standing on this??? Just wow...

Re:Less choice for us (1)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 2 years ago | (#38451726)

The 9860 was years after iPhone, and a year well after the G1 and years after the Android touch prototype.

The QNX tablet stunk. It got a lot of positive press until users found out what a dog it is.

Re:Less choice for us (1)

hawkbat05 (1952326) | more than 2 years ago | (#38452216)

It wasn't their first attempt at touch screen (the Storm was released in 2008), thankfully they've learned something since the first one. I'm not sure where the idea came from that the PlayBook is a "dog". Not everyone wants to haul around a 10" beast of a tablet. The hardware is also quite capable, take a look at games like Need For Speed to see what it can really do.

Re:Less choice for us (1)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 2 years ago | (#38453994)

Look at it's browser to see what it actually does.

It's not a matter of formfactor or size with the playbook.

The software was garbage.

Re:Less choice for us (1)

stephanruby (542433) | more than 2 years ago | (#38452244)

On a more recent note, RIM has upped its game with regards to Android and its new Android player. I wouldn't count them out just yet.

Re:Less choice for us (3, Insightful)

Lehk228 (705449) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450886)

Mostly the issue is the idiotic capitalist stock market

RIM made over a billion in profit this year and 5 billion in revenue but the market is bitchy because they didn't "grow enough" (read, burn themselves out then die from over leveraging themselves)

Re:Less choice for us (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38454568)

RIM doesn't pay dividends so it doesn't matter how much money they make if their future prospects aren't good. When a company doesn't pay dividends, the only way to get value from their stock is for it to increase in value over time. RIM hasn't even hinted that they have a clue, so there's no value in their stock.

The stock market may be irrational and prone to strong emotional responses of fear and greed, but it's not completely idiotic. Right now their stock doesn't have value to investors if the company can't grow. If they want to change this they can start paying out a dividend.

Re:Less choice for us (1)

Tharsman (1364603) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450942)

But I bet not even Microsoft can kill BB OS any fastr than RIM!!!!

Re:Less choice for us (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38451200)

RIM doesn't need any help. They're killing their own popularity quite handily.
Their platform has gone nowhere.
Their handhelds are all rehashes with no significant changes in in the most part of a decade.
Attempts to shoehorn the blackberry OS in to other things, like touchscreen phones, are sick joke to those who enjoy things like usability and consistency.
The once lauded blackberry messaging infrastructure was good when data was slow and expensive, but it hasn't changed in forever and now is more of a liability than an asset. It's a middle man. An extra point of failure.
BEX was once an awesome feature that was the key to making wireless business communication work. It's now an outdated, buggy, monstrosity that hangs on your messaging infrastructure like a leech. Exchange has evolved and activesync has utterly obsoleted the need for BEX
RIM seems to be actively developer hostile, saddling them with onerous restrictions while witholding documentation and developer tools.
It takes RIM literally years longer than their competitors to add features an innovations to their product.
The playbook is a Joke they can't give away.

There is something /very/ wrong going on at RIM and I've got a theory. Consider the following.
Rim's management seems massively arrogant and completely full of themselves. Its like the place is full of gigantic egos that can't love themselves enough.
RIM's software and products seem to be in a severe state of stagnation, and development is at a snails pace. Things really don't change much. The software on vintage BB handhelds really isn't much different that on contemporary ones.
The playbook is based on a different OS than the BB handhelds (QNX) and they've so far been unable to deliver the very basic function of standalone email communication. Why?

I think they can't, that's why. I think that somewhere along the way RIM, in the massive early business success, became so infatuated with business culture that they place has become a fat and top heavy thicket of middle managers and redundant executives. I think their R&D has been marginalized, cut, and been treated a liability rather than an asset. But really, I think they fired someone or lost some key asset that was the secret sauce to the their handheld OS and that they are literally unable to make significant changes, or port their email software to QNX.

For RIM to flounder so badly while so many other new players flourish is a sign of a serious problem inside the organization.

Re:Less choice for us (1)

Miamicanes (730264) | more than 2 years ago | (#38453252)

In all honesty, Microsoft would have been a good marriage for RIM. Up until very, VERY recently, "Blackberry" was a messaging platform, not an OS per se. It has NO REASON to BE an "OS" per se. "Blackberry" (the messaging platform) could live perfectly well as a corporate-friendly isolated virtual machine running under Android and/or Windows Phone, maybe partitioned off in another core with its own private RAM. Microsoft already owns the hearts and minds of America (and most of the world's) IT Elite (not necessarily the footsoldiers, but it's solidly got the CIO mindshare). It had the perfect marriage between Exchange, Blackberry, and Windows Phone sitting in plain view, ready to grab.

In the long run, we all know where RIM is going to end up if they don't screw things up totally: a corporate-friendly Android semi-fork with IT-approved management, security, and partitioning. Good for RIM and Android, epic fail for Microsoft. If Microsoft has any sense at all, they'll be doing everything possible to court RIM's favor to try and create a situation where RIM/Blackberry is closely associated with Android & Windows Phone, and NOT associated with iPhone. In a perfect world for users, RIM will support all three platforms as equal peers and strive for platform-agnosticism.

Re:Less choice for us (1)

jimmerz28 (1928616) | more than 2 years ago | (#38451724)

I'd rather they dissolve altogether. Have you tried developing for BB OS (native or web)?

The only people in America that have a BB are 45+ execs at large corporations too slow to catch up with change. And if they're not their friends wonder why they're friends with them.

Re:Less choice for us (1)

s7uar7 (746699) | more than 2 years ago | (#38451894)

In the UK BBs are good because of the cheap monthly contracts compared to other phones

Really? I have to pay £5/month on top of my data allowance for the privilege of connecting to BIS.

RIM is probably on the way out. (1)

sehlat (180760) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450614)

I ran into a student (circa 18-(low)twenties) using her Blackberry and commented on her using it to text. Her reply was "Yeah, but they're on the way out. None of my friends use them and they're just not cool." When you can't catch and enthrall your own future user base.....

Re:RIM is probably on the way out. (2)

sinij (911942) | more than 2 years ago | (#38451036)

Blackberry is a business device, meant to facilitate business communication in secure and reliable way and not serve as a personal entertainment device or attempt to appear to be cool. Forgetting this is what put RIM in its current situation.

Re:RIM is probably on the way out. (1)

sehlat (180760) | more than 2 years ago | (#38451086)

RIM is neither secure (as witness their cooperation with governments wishing to monitor communications) nor reliable, as the recent several-day outage proved.

Re:RIM is probably on the way out. (1)

sinij (911942) | more than 2 years ago | (#38451096)

Exactly, hence my comment about forgetting.

Re:RIM is probably on the way out. (2)

hawkbat05 (1952326) | more than 2 years ago | (#38451538)

As a business device, even with the "co-operation" (which they resisted), the business email remains securely transmitted. But in those countries, the government has legal access to any email servers inside the country anyway. If you expect privacy you shouldn't be trying to operate there. If these countries were abandoned by businesses they'd change their tune to save their economy. I don't think RIM has forgotten what they do best, the share holders and analysts have. They constantly blast RIM for failing to appeal to consumers, forgetting that the BlackBerry was built for enterprise usage.

Re:RIM is probably on the way out. (1)

hawkbat05 (1952326) | more than 2 years ago | (#38451164)

The problem with not shifting that focus is that businesses are increasingly moving to employee owned devices, instead of company owned. If they can't appeal to consumers it will negatively affect their presence in the enterprise. Now, instead of having to appeal to IT purchasing departments you have to appeal to individual employees who don't really care if their admin can remotely wipe their data etc. They care more if they can play Angry Birds (which you can on a PlayBook now: https://twitter.com/#!/BlackBerryDev/status/149521163180191744 [twitter.com] )

Re:RIM is probably on the way out. (5, Interesting)

ihatewinXP (638000) | more than 2 years ago | (#38451356)

I had an argument with one of the China RIM execs that got thrown off of a plane and arrested last week (boy is he a fun drunk to be around) 3 or 4 years ago. And I told him the same thing:

Me: "Yeah Blackberry is THE business solution at the moment but as an IT guy myself people are already starting to ask how they can get these new fangled iPhones into the business. There is going to be a trickle up effect that you guys sho-."

Him: "What are you an idiot! Apple has NO chance at EVER unseating us. Are you kidding me?! What the hell does a punk like you know?"

And in this manner he carried on and drank long into the night: Blackberry has NOTHING to fear, the iPhone is a toy (just look at the games), and consumers have ZERO effect on business purchases.

And every time I read another death knell for RIM I think of that jackass. If he was one of their global decision makers, and that attitude fit into their corporate culture.... They were lucky to last this long.

Re:RIM is probably on the way out. (1)

ulricr (2486278) | more than 2 years ago | (#38451652)

IMHO it doesn't matter if he thought 4 or 5 years ago that the iphone would have no impact in the business space. there *nothing* that I can see that he could have done to stop it. their product is about selling BIS, phones locked down by admin, email machines. if they would have given that up the moment the iphone came in, there would be nowhere today, because they are not apple. It would have not have made their corporate clients' users like their phone better than the Jesus Phone. They are not apple, nobody else is.

Re:RIM is probably on the way out. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38451748)

RIM should sell BES software on iOS + Android, and stop selling hardware.

Re:RIM is probably on the way out. (1)

Zontar_Thing_From_Ve (949321) | more than 2 years ago | (#38452116)

To be fair, I understand his thoughts, as wrong as they turned out to be. I work in the US for a Fortune 300 company who I do not wish to name. I'm an IT guy in the office where I work. For many years, Blackberry was the only corporate approved phone solution if you wanted to read work email. Two things changed this.
1) As much as I'd love to believe that my company "saw the light", the fact is that it took people in the very top parts of management in my company who demanded that iphones be approved for reading email before it was finally placed on the approved devices list. Had those people been Crackberry addicts instead, I would not have an iphone today.
2) We are using McAfee's EMM product to read email and I would call that product "superb". It took away any technical objections to the iphone from those who didn't want to support it because they could no longer argue that with an iphone you couldn't respond to calendar invitations or that email didn't look good or wasn't readable. To be fair, those who used the Good product to do Outlook type stuff on iphone prior to EMM told me that it was terrible and if there was not a better program available (EMM) then the objections to the iphone might have carried the day. We had and still have an awful lot of Crackberry luddites in lower levels of management here who are married to their Crackberries, but iphones are the phone of choice among non-managers and apparently a large number of senior managers here.

Re:RIM is probably on the way out. (1)

multipartmixed (163409) | more than 2 years ago | (#38453686)

I don't know anything about this EMM thing, but my iPhone responds to calendar invites just fine.

They arrive from MS Exchange (outside company), and hit our google-apps mail server. My iPhone thinks that Google is running an exchange server, and badda-bing, badda-boom, mail syncs, contacts syncs, calendar syncs, invites pop up, the whole nine yards.

I don't know if there is anything special in the google offering here or not, I don't really care. I just care that it works and is easy to set up. :)

Re:RIM is probably on the way out. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38454612)

The problem is when your Exchange server is behind a firewall so you can't get to it directly. Programs like Good (which, contrary to its name, is exactly as terrible as the GP has heard; it might actually be worse) work mostly like BB's server -- whatever it's called -- and therefore use a completely proprietary protocol for sending and receiving messages. A consequence of that is that Good has to include an email reader, a calendar, a contacts system -- all of it. That's the real reason Good is terrible: those individual pieces are an absolute embarrassment of terrible UI, missing features, and so on.

The advantage EMM has is that it is, as far as I can tell, a transparent VPN for a single port. This means that all you have to do is start up EMM, and then open your regular old email/calendar programs that come with your phone. It all just sort of works. That's the advantage to users, anyway. The advantage to IT departments is that EMM will also enforce certain security policies on your phone, like requiring full-device encryption, an unlock code, and so on, up to and including the ability to remote-wipe your phone.

Incidentally, I actually work at McAfee, so it's kind of a weird experience for me to see someone say good things about our products. Even if, as in this case, it's not actually a product we developed (we bought the company that made it when DeWalt was on his " THE MOBILE INTERNETS IS TEH FUTARE " kick).

Re:RIM is probably on the way out. (1)

ulricr (2486278) | more than 2 years ago | (#38451568)

it's true that they make devices for sys admins at businesses. however, around here (subway, streets, restaurents) all the blackberries I see are in the hands of young women who are using it for texting. At work, everyone seems to have iphones now. maybe a regional thing. but there sure are a lot of pink blackberries out there :)

Re:RIM is probably on the way out. (1)

na1led (1030470) | more than 2 years ago | (#38451064)

RIM has nothing to offer to bring iPhon and Android users over. Their user base consists of Hard Core BB users and a few people who never had a SmartPhone and will take the risk and try one out. US Cellular used to have about 6 different BB phones last year, now it's down to just 1.

Re:RIM is probably on the way out. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38451292)

Blackberries aren't cool, they're useful. If I'm to have a personal phone that I occasionally use for business purposes I will choose Android/iPhone. If I am to have a business phone that I occasionally use for personal use then the blackberry is hands down the winner. Unfortunately people don't really think in those types of terms when they make (emotional) purchasing decisions, so you're right.. RIM is probably going to become a niche product and then be bought out.

Re:RIM is probably on the way out. (1)

na1led (1030470) | more than 2 years ago | (#38452050)

It's about convenience and eas of use. I work for a Law Firm and when one Attorney purchased and iPhone and iPad, then all the Attorneys wanted one after seeing what they could do with it, and how easy it was to use. They all had BB phones and were amazed how much better the iPhone was. They don't think about security, it's all about convenience.

Pump up the stock price . . . (3, Interesting)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450654)

It sounds to me that someone wants to pump up the RIM stock price with rumors . . . before options or whatever expire at the end of the year.

Makes sense (1)

improfane (855034) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450736)

I wouldn't be surprised. Quite sad really.

You can be pretty sure any article from any business news website, financial websites (NY, FT times) have vested interests and inherent bias. Since this is WSJ it's a certainty!

What happened to you World Wide Web? You used to host true facts. It never used to be ONLY smear campaigns, astroturfing, advertisements and junk -- I would adopt countless trolls instead of this fate!

Re:Pump up the stock price . . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38451170)

RIM already said they've delayed BBX until late 2012. It's going to take more than a rumor to pump that stock, especially considering that Microsoft and Nokia would just gut the company for its patents.

Gobbling (1)

Kozar_The_Malignant (738483) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450732)

>It is interesting to see who will gobble up RIM.

Dear God anybody but HP.

Re:Gobbling (2)

roc97007 (608802) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450898)

Agreed. At least, acquisition by Microsoft would be a clean death.

Re:Gobbling (1)

rishistar (662278) | more than 2 years ago | (#38452016)

>It is interesting to see who will gobble up RIM. Personally I was hoping Apple would do it under its previous CEO. A collaboration called RIM Jobs would have been fantastic!

So... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38450790)

For someone seeking employment, would now be a good time to go for a rim job or not?

Re:So... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38451628)

Nope. It sucks ass.

Re:So... (1)

oldmac31310 (1845668) | more than 2 years ago | (#38453724)

But success is exactly what I'm seeking!

Re:So... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38453822)

Well that sure leaves a bad taste in the mouth

Yawn (1)

Troyusrex (2446430) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450812)

This would be like if there was a plane crash in the Andes and someone made a big deal that they dodged a bullet because they had once mentioned maybe going to Chile sometime. It's a mammoth jump from one to the next. In the course of conversation even among senior execs they talk about buying THOUSANDS of companies. Only one in a hundred of those gets looked at seriously and only one in a hundred of those get to the bidding stage.

Re:Yawn (1)

Attila Dimedici (1036002) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450940)

I am going to guess that this was something that came out while they were discussing strategies. Someone brought up something that they should plan to do, someone else mentiond that RIM already did that and was probably buyable. They tossed it around for a bit and decided that RIM's implementation would be to hard to integrate into the rest of what they were doing and moved on (with everybody there keeping in the back of their mind that it might be nice for their company to pick up RIM if the price were right).

MS is all about the enterprise (1)

JDG1980 (2438906) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450844)

The Journal suggests that this wasn't anything more than a simple idea that came up at one of the regular meetings between senior executives from all three companies â" perhaps it could have even been just a casual talk â" but one wonders how Microsoft and Nokia executives think there is profit to be made by this take over.

One wonders? Really? It seems pretty obvious to me, and the next sentence spells it out:

Maybe RIM provides a good backdoor entry for MS into the enterprise space for its Windows Phone 7?

Bingo. Blackberry, as hard as they're failing in the consumer space, still owns large parts of the enterprise. And enterprise computing has always been MS's bread and butter. Buying RIM would let MS produce devices that are certified to work securely in a business environment (like the existing Blackberries) but have a UI that doesn't totally suck.

Re:MS is all about the enterprise (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38452084)

"And enterprise computing has always been MS's bread and butter."

Wrong.

Before NT was dropped into their laps, Microsoft was not an enterprise solution.

M$ will kill RIM (1)

roc97007 (608802) | more than 2 years ago | (#38450888)

What RIM does is anathema to Microsoft. If they buy the company, it'll only be for first shot at the customer base and perhaps some of their technologies, for instance, incorporating some features of BES into Exchange. Don't expect anything like a Blackberry to continue to exist after the sale.

Amazon... I'm not sure.

Re:M$ will kill RIM (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38451104)

That may be true, however it will take a very long time. I can see BES being rolled into Exchange or vice versa, but getting that running on all the relay nodes that RIM has all over the world would take a while.

The phone will not be killed since many governments rely on them. You would have to pry it out of the CIA's cold dead hands... or die trying.

Re:M$ will kill RIM (1)

roc97007 (608802) | more than 2 years ago | (#38451466)

Wow, good point. That had completely slipped my mind. So one would expect the government to step in at some point in the negotiations. And I'm feeling that the CIA switching to Windows Phone 7 isn't an option.

Re:M$ will kill RIM (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38451210)

What exactly is it that RIM 'does', these days?

I certainly can't figure out it, so it doesn't seem to me like they have much longterm value, other than for customer base and patent portfolio.

Re:M$ will kill RIM (1)

roc97007 (608802) | more than 2 years ago | (#38451450)

RIM's architecture is actually unique and very advanced. They do stuff that no other smart phone manufacturer does. Another poster had a good point -- the US government makes huge use of the Blackberry network, and probably wouldn't allow the product to vanish.

Re:M$ will kill RIM (1)

ulricr (2486278) | more than 2 years ago | (#38451700)

they would probably buy it in a partneship with nokia, so as to not piss off the other Windows Phone 7 OEMs. the blackberries would probably continue, under WP8 personally I think the BES stuff is obsolete now with the data plans we have, html mails, higher resolution screens, etc. the devices can connect directly to exchange without going through BES. so all the is valuable here is the brand and the design of the phone hardware.

Re:M$ will kill RIM (1)

roc97007 (608802) | more than 2 years ago | (#38451928)

The thing is, there are still advantages to BES. With a Blackberry connected to the corporate BES server, I had direct access to the corporate intranet, as BES is in a special DMZ that gives access behind the firewall to devices it trusts. As a corporate Android user, I *still* don't have that capability. I know there are apps that are supposed to provide that, but I've not yet seen them work.

Why not just put BES features in without RIM? (1)

swb (14022) | more than 2 years ago | (#38452082)

MS already provides some remote device management in Exchange, why would they need to buy RIM? Why not just expand what Exchange is capable of doing and make it exclusive to Windows Phone 7?

Exchange corporate ubiquity coupled with WP7 remote management features and the Microsoft controlled WP7 app store might make for an attractive package.

Since they own the app store, MS would then have access to all the details of WP7 apps, allowing easy allow/disallow/install for corporate WP7 devices. They could probably merge in corporate purchasing of apps so that new WP7 phones could get connected to the enterprise Exchange server and then fully provisioned with all of the corporate approved apps, centrally purchased.

And of course there could be a tick box for "Allow only phone which accept WP7 policies", shutting out Android and iPhone for all but the execs who demand those phones. This makes WP7 the corporate standard.

And MS could make WP7 policies an "open" standard which vendors would have to either integrate in their phones or not support, allowing MS to skirt the monopoly issue.

And NONE of this requires any BES technology, just some creative thinking on MS part.

Apple should buy them! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38450900)

Rimjobs for everyone!

yuo fail It! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38450956)

dying' cr03d - [goat.cx]

MS (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38450958)

"Maybe RIM provides a good backdoor entry for MS..." Oooh my!!

It's sad to lose QNX (4, Interesting)

Animats (122034) | more than 2 years ago | (#38451234)

I don't really care about the Blackberry, but QNX is a good real-time microkernel operating system, damaged by being resold first to Harmon (an audio company) and now RIM. During all the resales, it's gone from closed source to open (but not free) source to closed source to open source to closed source. This killed all open-source interest in QNX, which used to have a version of Firefox and was usable as a desktop OS, although nobody did this unless they were doing real-time work. QNX, pre-Harmon, contributed heavily to the development of Eclipse, and Eclipse's ability to work on C and C++ programs comes from QNX.

Some industrial automation company should buy QNX. Maybe one will.

Nokia should get them (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38451496)

I think nokia should buy them this may make nokia better http://symbianfan.com

I see what you did there (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38451530)

Maybe RIM provides a good backdoor entry for MS into the enterprise space for its Windows Phone 7?

I see what you did there

Nokia? But why? (2)

sgt scrub (869860) | more than 2 years ago | (#38451622)

All the bits and pieces for RIM are dependent on Microsoft back end. Microsoft buying them to slide into existing Microsoft centric environments is blatantly obvious. Only a blithering idiot could miss that. Nokia's interest is something that eludes me however. With the exception of making themselves more attractive to Microsoft, I don't see the fit.

Re:Nokia? But why? (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 2 years ago | (#38452600)

ms already has all the interesting stuff they could have from rim.

what they would be buying would be the customer base...

Re:Nokia? But why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38454556)

By the time the hypotetic would be finalized sadly the RIM market share would be close to 5% of all smartphones. Something like that :-/

...and decided against it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38452254)

because it's called RIM.

Maybe HP will buy them (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38452434)

Maybe HP will throw their name in the hat since they have already successfully turned around one mobile phone giant.

huhh huhh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38453446)

You said, "back door entry".

MS (1)

Shifty0x88 (1732980) | more than 2 years ago | (#38454154)

I can see MS trying to get RIM so that they can add Windows Phones to it, because well.... Windows Phones suck

How to make easy money... (1)

ritzer (934174) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455112)

Do you know the definition of book value? RIM is trading below the value of their real estate, cash assets. You could parcel the company up and sell the real estate to Google and make a profit.
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