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China Now Top Patent Filer

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the people's-patents dept.

Patents 135

smitty777 writes "China has passed the U.S. as the number-one filer of patents this year, according to a report by Thompson Reuters. With an average annual increase of 16.7%, China has filed 314,000 patents last year. This brings the total share of China in worldwide holdings up from 54% to 58%. However, according to legal expert Elliot Papageorgiou: 'One thing is volume, quality is quite another. The return, or the percentage of grants, of the patents is still not as high in China as, say, in the U.S., Japan or some places in Europe.' This was also a record year for patent filing over all, according to the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO). According to their numbers, worldwide patent applications are up 7.2%, at 1.98 million in 2010. FTA: 'WIPO Director General Francis Gurry on Tuesday attributed the rise to the "knowledge economy" and globalization led by U.S. and Chinese innovation.'"

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First post (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38454762)

Whopdeedoo.

Like most of China's academic papers these patents will also be worthless garbage.

Re:First post (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38456326)

You say as the dollar continues to suck wind and, in a moment of panic, you remember China owns over 14% of the American national debt.

Welcome to reality, America is the new worthless garbage.

Re:First post (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38456516)

Good, now we can steal them back!

Quality (4, Funny)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 2 years ago | (#38454770)

They're complaining about the quality of Chinese patents?

Re:Quality (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38454818)

Thats like 1 in every 3000 people having created something worthy of a patent.

I call bullshit on that.

Re:Quality (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38454878)

Thats like 1 in every 3000 people having created something worthy of a patent.

I call bullshit on that.

Yeah, the USA rate of 1 patent in every 1000 people , per year, is much more reasonable. The Chinese are slacking.

Re:Quality (4, Funny)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455074)

Thats like 1 in every 3000 people having created something worthy of a patent.

I call bullshit on that.

Yeah, the USA rate of 1 patent in every 1000 people , per year, is much more reasonable. The Chinese are slacking.

Patent Applied for: Left-handed Veeblefetzer goes 10 feet, stops.

Patent Applied for: Left-handed Veeblefetzer goes 10 feet, turns left.

Patent Applied for: Left-handed Veeblefetzer goes 10 feet, turns rightt.

Patent Applied for: Left-handed Veeblefetzer goes 10 feet, goes down.

Patent Applied for: Left-handed Veeblefetzer goes 10 feet, goes up.

Patent Applied for: Left-handed Veeblefetzer goes 10 feet, turns around, goes 10 feet.

Patent Applied for: Right-handed Veeblefetzer goes 10 feet, stops.

Patent Applied for: Right-handed Veeblefetzer goes 10 feet, turns left.

Patent Applied for: Right-handed Veeblefetzer goes 10 feet, turns rightt.

Patent Applied for: Right-handed Veeblefetzer goes 10 feet, goes down.

Patent Applied for: Right-handed Veeblefetzer goes 10 feet, goes up.

Patent Applied for: Right-handed Veeblefetzer goes 10 feet, turns around, goes 10 feet.

Patent Applied for: Left-handed Veeblefetzer goes 20 feet, stops.

Patent Applied for: Left-handed Veeblefetzer goes 20 feet, turns left.

Patent Applied for: Left-handed Veeblefetzer goes 20 feet, turns rightt.

Patent Applied for: Left-handed Veeblefetzer goes 20 feet, goes down.

Patent Applied for: Left-handed Veeblefetzer goes 20 feet, goes up.

Patent Applied for: Left-handed Veeblefetzer goes 20 feet, turns around, goes 20 feet.

Patent Applied for: Right-handed Veeblefetzer goes 20 feet, stops.

Patent Applied for: Right-handed Veeblefetzer goes 20 feet, turns left.

Patent Applied for: Right-handed Veeblefetzer goes 20 feet, turns rightt.

Patent Applied for: Right-handed Veeblefetzer goes 20 feet, goes down.

Patent Applied for: Right-handed Veeblefetzer goes 20 feet, goes up.

Patent Applied for: Right-handed Veeblefetzer goes 20 feet, turns around, goes 20 feet.

...

Yeah, they'll lock up all the Veeblefetzer and you'll be stuck making do with a Potrzebie

Re:Quality (1)

ifiwereasculptor (1870574) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455400)

I don't care, as long as the Potrzebie is also cromulent.

Re:Quality (1)

Taty'sEyes (2373326) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455746)

I think they measure in meters there.... SMile

Re:Quality (2)

rossdee (243626) | more than 2 years ago | (#38456090)

I think they measure in metres there.
A meter is a device. a metre is a unit of length. (At least in the rest of the world.outside USA)

Re:Quality (1)

colinrichardday (768814) | more than 2 years ago | (#38456270)

I pretty sure that not all the rest of the world outside the US speaks English.

Re:Quality (1)

SharkLaser (2495316) | more than 2 years ago | (#38456626)

If you want to try to correct someone, at least make sure you're right. It's spelled meters everywhere I've been (no I haven't been to UK).

Re:Quality (2)

nfras (313241) | more than 2 years ago | (#38456800)

If you want to try to correct someone, at least make sure you're right. It's spelled meters everywhere I've been (no I haven't been to UK).

Looks like you've only ever been in the US then [wikipedia.org]

Re:Quality (1)

nikanth (1066242) | more than 2 years ago | (#38456776)

They're complaining about the quality of Chinese patents?

Keep in mind that all the original brands are also made in China

This, finally, will bring sanity to the system (5, Insightful)

timeOday (582209) | more than 2 years ago | (#38454780)

The US will not be so lenient in granting patents for everything stupid little thing when it benefits non-US companies as much or more than our own.

I suppose bias against Chinese-originated patents could stifle this... but I suppose they will just create shell companies to work around that.

Re:This, finally, will bring sanity to the system (2)

OliWarner (1529079) | more than 2 years ago | (#38454890)

Isn't it more likely that patriotic USPTO staff will just rush through any old rubbish (worse than now) to make sure every vague hint of an idea is owned by the US?

Re:This, finally, will bring sanity to the system (2)

Kenja (541830) | more than 2 years ago | (#38454926)

No, the US will just patent ALL the stupid stuff first! Do you want us to have a PATENT GAP! Well DO YOU!

Re:This, finally, will bring sanity to the system (1)

colinrichardday (768814) | more than 2 years ago | (#38456302)

Yes, I do.

Re:This, finally, will bring sanity to the system (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38454954)

The USPTO stance is that if you want to get a shoddy patent they'll let you, but it's your ass in court if it's easily invalidated. The problem is that the courts are reluctant to invalidate the bogus patents because they don't know the technology well enough.

Re:This, finally, will bring sanity to the system (1)

Idbar (1034346) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455450)

At least, if not, it's going to be a interesting DoS attack to the USPTO. Filing at a large rate will either require more people to actually go through them carefully or simply a reform of the process. Which may come with a reform to the system.

Yeah that was my first thought too (2)

Weaselmancer (533834) | more than 2 years ago | (#38456212)

Except I'm not worried about bias, I'm thinking that if the Chinese get enough patents to lock the United States out of their own patent system that will be the state of affairs that finally sinks the whole software patent thing. If you have to send two bucks to China every time you write a Hello World program, maybe that will finally display just how broken the system is.

Once large corporate interests figure out that patents cost them more than they help them, that's when reform will suddenly become important. So GO CHINA and torpedo the whole thing! Best of luck to you guys.

What's a "knowledge economy"? (5, Insightful)

cmv1087 (2426970) | more than 2 years ago | (#38454782)

Is it where companies hoard patents on irrelevant things and use them to sue the pants off competitors?

Re:What's a "knowledge economy"? (2)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 2 years ago | (#38454846)

Yes. Also known as the economy where you can only actually make money if you're a lawyer, right up until the economy crashes. I give it seven years.

Re:What's a "knowledge economy"? (1)

colinrichardday (768814) | more than 2 years ago | (#38456308)

Unless you can patent such an economy, in which case I give it 20 years.

Re:What's a "knowledge economy"? (1)

anubi (640541) | more than 2 years ago | (#38456486)

Well, now that there has been so much concern about recognizing information as a "property", isn't it time the tax law recognizes it as property as well?

Paying property tax gives me the right to tell the homeless guy he can't erect his tent on my land. Our government is giving out the right to tell others what they can and cannot do. Do they pay anything for the right?

This whole thing just seems to be a "barrier to entry" to keep competition at bay. Instead of working, our people either turn to the welfare rolls or accept employment at whatever terms from those who have agreements with Government to allow production.

This will go on as long as the rest of the world honors a United States Dollar. We don't have to earn 'em. We just print them.

But really, to me, a lot of this stuff seems about as asinine as McDonalds suing Burger King because the process of putting a hamburger patty in a bun is a intellectual property right.

We've laid minefields of lawsuits. And we are blowing up the draft animals who pull the plow.

Re:What's a "knowledge economy"? (1)

blackraven14250 (902843) | more than 2 years ago | (#38454870)

If it were irrelevant, nobody else would want to use it.

Re:What's a "knowledge economy"? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38455258)

It's where you make knowledge a scare resource so that you can apply the term "economy" to it.

Re:What's a "knowledge economy"? (1)

colinrichardday (768814) | more than 2 years ago | (#38456322)

As a math teacher, I can assure you that my students find mathematical knowledge to be a scare resource. :-)

Re:What's a "knowledge economy"? (1)

c0lo (1497653) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455488)

Is it where companies hoard patents on irrelevant things and use them to sue the pants off competitors?

It reckon depends on the type of knowledge: patent lawyers will surely have it, they'll be surely benefiting from this economy.

Re:What's a "knowledge economy"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38455782)

Is it where companies hoard patents on irrelevant things and use them to sue the pants off competitors?

It's where almost everyone is unemployed, nothing tangible is produced, and the executives rake in huge quantities of cash, regardless of success or failure.

Re:What's a "knowledge economy"? (1)

colinrichardday (768814) | more than 2 years ago | (#38456336)

Is it where companies hoard patents on irrelevant things and use them to sue the pants off competitors?

Let them wear skirts!

Re:What's a "knowledge economy"? (1)

cmv1087 (2426970) | more than 2 years ago | (#38456852)

Let them wear skirts!

It's a kilt, damnit!

Irony (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38454788)

In other news, the RIAA was found to have the largest amount of pirated songs downloaded.

of course numbers are up (1)

StealthHunter (597677) | more than 2 years ago | (#38454790)

companies are winning lawsuits on "clicking a phone number in an email in order to dial the number" and "switching to an app while on the phone." companies would be mad not to try to patent every tiny user interface action, technical revision, bugfix, etc. regardless of prior art or novelty. prediction, 2012 will be even bigger!!!

Re:of course numbers are up (1)

click2005 (921437) | more than 2 years ago | (#38454856)

Its payout lottery. Buy a patent and you might win big. Why not buy tens of thousands of them like some companies do.

Re:of course numbers are up (1)

c0lo (1497653) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455510)

Its payout lottery. Buy a patent and you might win big. Why not buy tens of thousands of them like some companies do.

In other news - it doesn't help [bbc.co.uk] you still need to pay MS the extortion money.

Re:of course numbers are up (1)

perryizgr8 (1370173) | more than 2 years ago | (#38456648)

don't forget rectangular screen with rounded corners.

US has patents mostly because of... (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38454804)

The US has patents mostly because of foreign researchers in the US. When Chinese / Indians / Russians / Israili / Singaporeans / others discover they no longer have to go to US for research work, the US will have almost nothing.

Re:US has patents mostly because of... (3, Insightful)

viperidaenz (2515578) | more than 2 years ago | (#38454880)

Because those companies with a butt load a patents - ibm, microsoft, apple - are not american companies?

Re:US has patents mostly because of... (3, Insightful)

dbIII (701233) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455204)

Not for years. They are very much multinationals - for instance IBM has a lot of staff in China working remotely on systems that are not in China.

Re:US has patents mostly because of... (1)

viperidaenz (2515578) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455420)

I imagine they would still file US patents for research they develop in China. I bet a US patent would hold more weight in a US court than a Chinese patent

Re:US has patents mostly because of... (1)

dbIII (701233) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455758)

TFA is about US Patents applied for from China!!!!

Re:US has patents mostly because of... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38456028)

I bet a US patent would hold more weight in a US court than a Chinese patent

And people wonder why the patent system doesn't work.
A Chinese patent is just as valid as a US patent you fucking racist.

Re:US has patents mostly because of... (1)

viperidaenz (2515578) | more than 2 years ago | (#38456192)

Patents valid under the laws of one country may not be valid in another. Trying using wishy washy american software patents in europe

Re:US has patents mostly because of... (2)

viperidaenz (2515578) | more than 2 years ago | (#38456166)

Wrong. Its about the number of patents filed in the China Patent Office vs United States Patent Office

Re:US has patents mostly because of... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38455264)

There is no such thing as an American company. Corporations are not physical entities, they have no national loyalty. They are not supporting any national economy. They are parasites that are only serving themselves. Any benefit to the host country is purely accidental.

Re:US has patents mostly because of... (1)

LaRainette (1739938) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455852)

Can you actually read ?
He said foreign "researchers". Yes these are american companies. And how many american researchers do they have ?

Re:US has patents mostly because of... (1)

LaRainette (1739938) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455844)

True. But the reason why these people emmigrated to the US to do R&D in american companies is because the pay is better and this condition hasn't changed.
Or rather hasn't changed enough yet. I don't think there is any Chinese company who can rival IBM's R&D, or Intel's.

Re:US has patents mostly because of... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38456874)

The US has patents mostly because of foreign researchers in the US. When Chinese / Indians / Russians / Israili / Singaporeans / others discover they no longer have to go to US for research work, the US will have almost nothing.

And because of a lot of crap patents and stolen patents.

US patent history, from an European perspective
  -> c:a 1965 No respect for patents (especially if it is patents filed by foreign companies in USA), nobody files patents, because they won' t help.
  -> c:a 1987 Ignore most patent filings from foreign actors, but accept the same patent if a domestic company later files it (even if it is an verbatim copy of the foreign patent filing). If the first party then show their foreign patents and their first, refused, patent application, ignore them. If a foreign entity tries to uphold a US patent (bought, because it was almost impossible for foreign entities to get patents accepted in USA), ignore them.
  -> Today. Accept all patents from US based entities, no matter how crappy they are. Ignore all patents filings from foreign entities, if you can get away with it. If a foreign entity tries to uphold a US patent, ignore them and obstruct them with legal technicalities.

Haha, oops :) (5, Interesting)

youn (1516637) | more than 2 years ago | (#38454822)

hopefully the us gets an incentive to fix the patent system. China is as entitled to patents as any other country... but the fact that the usa does not want to be deadlocked by china may give an incentive to fix the patent system :)

Re:Haha, oops :) (1)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | more than 2 years ago | (#38454970)

These patents are being filed in the Chinese patent system.

Enforcement in China? Priceless.

Re:Haha, oops :) (1)

nzac (1822298) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455184)

These patents are being filed in the Chinese patent system.

Enforcement in China? Priceless.

If they let all patents though and enforce it, along with forcing Chinese manufacturers to provide cheep products to China then they can can lock the US and others out of ever equalizing the tech trade imbalance.
And since the government can control the courts they can influence the patents that stay valid.
Of course that's just the begging and it would annoy a lot of people.

Re:Haha, oops :) (1)

zippthorne (748122) | more than 2 years ago | (#38456320)

I'm curious how sending us stuff in exchange for only paper and never other stuff is harmful to us and helpful to them economically. Strategically, perhaps, but that's only if we ever go to war on opposing sides.

Re:Haha, oops :) (2)

nzac (1822298) | more than 2 years ago | (#38456856)

That paper is still good for buying stuff that makes there economy stronger. If you have paper to burn and totalitarian authority then you can fix anything economy related. They can just stop their citizens from buying expensive stuff from overseas.

You assume that the US would work if everyone though it was only paper. No one would trade oil, food and other stuff for paper. Just like no one would want just paper for their latest technology.

Also its "paper" that stops the Chinese factories from seizing the fab plants and selling everything without R&D costs.

No one has the balls (or ever should) to start a war between nuclear powers. Unless you can stop all the missiles (Russia thinks attempting to do this is a hostile act) you cannot win or benefit from open war.

Re:Haha, oops :) (1)

BenJCarter (902199) | more than 2 years ago | (#38456006)

Enforcement would be better than what we have now, but what happens when Chinese patents duplicate US patents? If this is an issue, it may do more to push American business to move manufacturing back to America than the current patent anarchy will.

Could there be a Dirty Jobs [wikipedia.org] iPhone manufacturing episode in our future?

Re:Haha, oops :) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38455132)

What? Are you kidding me? For a country that enforces no patent protection whatsoever...I find it hard to believe we are even accepting China's patents. They steal, copy and forge software, movies, and anything of value with absolutely no enforcement. I'm not talking about downloading a movie, or song..I'm talking about opening whole stores dedicated to pirated/forged Apple Stores, Microsoft software for download, hacking computers and companies alike backed by the Chinese government.

Re:Haha, oops :) (1)

Surt (22457) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455198)

So you're thinking the US will withdraw from the WIPO?

Re:Haha, oops :) (1)

youn (1516637) | more than 2 years ago | (#38456196)

No, they would have too much to lose. What exactly would happen, depends on many factors... but ideally they would lobby for different rules, make patents for obviousness a lot more difficult to obtain worldwide... probably through some secret treaty like acta

Re:Haha, oops :) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38456932)

So you're thinking the US will withdraw from the WIPO?

If US followed what is agreed upon in WIPO, then that would be a good start, most crap US patents comes into existence because US don't. Most crap in WIPO is there because USA demanded it.

China now top patent DEfiler (3, Funny)

GodfatherofSoul (174979) | more than 2 years ago | (#38454852)

Fixed that for you

Re:China now top patent DEfiler (2, Insightful)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455158)

China now top patent DEfiler

I think the country with the highest number of patent trolls deserves that particular title don't you?

(take a guess which country that is)

Patent on manufacturing ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38454868)

If they could patent the manufacturing of everything they produce, including the Idevices ;), i would laugh so hard...

quality (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38454936)

"One thing is volume, quality is quite another..."

Right. 'Cause, ya know, the U.S.A. cranks-out quality patents all day.

% before the numbers? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38454940)

its 54%, not %54

get a brain morans

Re:% before the numbers? (-1)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455218)

its 54%, not %54

1) Actually, in written English, when space is not constrained you should write the word percent.

2) Perhaps the submitter is a non-native English speaker & the convention for their native language is to place the symbol before the number (Some middle eastern countries do this).

get a brain morans

You're criticizing a minor style error, when you can't capitalize or spell?

Re:% before the numbers? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38455308)

http://www.google.se/search?q=get+a+brain+morans

Re:% before the numbers? (1)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 2 years ago | (#38456618)

Goddamnit. Too many memes.

Thank you, you helpful swedish anon.

Re:% before the numbers? (1)

similar_name (1164087) | more than 2 years ago | (#38456080)

A method for denoting a fraction of the whole by placing a percent sign after a number between 1 and 100 has been granted a patent. The submitter is obviously using an alternate method to prevent a lawsuit.

oh noes... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38454998)

Monkey see, monkey do. I think we've created a monster patent troll.

U.S. grants a higher percentage? (4, Insightful)

HtR (240250) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455028)

If anything, I would think that granting a higher percentage of patents is a sign of lower quality.

But then again, I also don't see more patents as a rise in the "knowledge economy" or globalization lead by innovation.

Re:U.S. grants a higher percentage? (1)

scamper_22 (1073470) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455618)

But you're not a lawyer or politician :P

But (1)

markdavis (642305) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455036)

>"China has passed the US as the number one filer of patents this year"

Yes, but are they REAL patents or stupid, unfair, poor-quality software "concept" patents that have totally clogged the US system?

Re:But (1)

hackingbear (988354) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455140)

I believe Chian does not allow software patents.

Re:But (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38455192)

Its does not.

Who needs to start a company/business anymore... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38455100)

No need to start a company/business anymore, just file some generic patents that any retard could come up with, become aware of people infringing them but don't do anything except wait until they're ripe for suing for millions or billions, just like every other company around and then sue the crap out of everyone for millions of times more than you would have legitimately earned using your own patents.

So lame what the patent system has turned into; generic patents, software patents, and any standard medical patents etc... should all just be made null and void, and anyone that tries to sue another company with one when they have no intention of using the patent themselves and just trolling should be jailed for it.

China Bashing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38455144)

Ok People let start the China bashing.

FuRck!! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38455200)

Uh, oh... (5, Insightful)

Thangodin (177516) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455230)

Neil DeGrasse Tyson, in his talk at last years TAM, showed us a world map that illustrated the number of new scientific research papers filed by country. In 2000, the U.S. was still a leader. Then he showed the 2008 map, and the U.S. looked like a deflated balloon. My comment at the time was that primary research shows you applied research ten years down the road, and industrial innovation 20 years down the road. Guess I was right.

Tyson's point was that the Bush administration's defunding of pure science was reflected in the map. Much as libertarians don't like to hear this, private research goes into low hanging fruit. Primary research is too risky, particularly since, if done right, it enters the public domain. Only a handful of companies do this (IBM and Google, take a bow--Apple and Microsoft, sit down.) Medical advances are particularly susceptible to this. The computer revolution came from NASA and the Apollo project, the internet came from DARPA funding of AT&T for the creation of resilient network (those same Bell labs are now beggars at the table of Alcatel, a French company.)

Every other country that is a major player is spending a lot on primary research, and this funding is coming from the government. It's infrastructure, it lays the road for the business of the future, and its the one area where the government excels. China is spending a fortune on this, and we've exported all of our know how to them already, When IBM farms out manufacturing to another country, they send their engineers there to teach the manufacturers exactly what to do, and many other companies do exactly the same thing. They know almost everything we know, but we don't know everything they know--not anymore.

The Greatest Generation, the people who grew up in the depression and fought the Axis, understood responsibility. They did a lot of things wrong, but they knew how to work together towards a better future, and our standard of living is the result of that. Can you imagine rubber and silk drives today? Americans couldn't even be bothered to pay higher taxes for Iraq and Afghanistan, even while they made noises about supporting the troops. It's time to grow up and carry not only our weight, but more than our weight, and pass a torch that burns brighter for our having held it. So the next time you hear the latest Fox demagogue complaining about taxes, and demanding lower taxes, imagine how his belly aching would have sounded in the 40's.

Re:Uh, oh... (3, Insightful)

X-Power (1009277) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455368)

Maybe the reason was that the war with the axis had nothing to do with stealing resources from third world countries?

I have a feeling if a genuine evil shows up, with a genuine threat to the american life, then the current generation will become the greatest generation + 1.

Re:Uh, oh... (1)

SpiralSpirit (874918) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455622)

genuine evil is hard to recognize, and the state of the media and propaganda today is totally different so that there will always be a counterpoint. In WW1 & 2 many people got their news from the radio and going to theaters. Nowadays most people have internet and can go to al-jazeera or whatever, assuming SOPA doesn't pass. Your genuine evil won't materialize till the economy is far past saving.

Re:Uh, oh... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38455728)

There's no point in asking for Chinese engineers to come to the US to teach what is already known. However, if it comes to pass that China has a process that is completely new and they want to sell it, then they will send engineers abroad and we can all gain from it.

The older generations had different problems to deal with and need not have worried about ubiquitous video cameras catching the abuse of the troops in war. They had lots more petrol and a little bit of frontier left to explore. Now, the world is fuller and information right or wrong is almost universally accessible.

The whole patent system can collapse for all I care. It used to be an incentive for the individual enterprising inventors of the industrial age. It is more of a hindrance and a corporate tool for artificial monopolies and lawsuits than a guarantee of reward for innovation.

Re:Uh, oh... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38455774)

So the next time you hear the latest Fox demagogue complaining about taxes, and demanding lower taxes,

Lower taxes can in fact, increase total revenues. It's called the Laffer curve.

You're an idiot.

Re:Uh, oh... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38456024)

Have you ever looked at a Laffer Curve* [wikipedia.org] ? It all depends on what the tax rate is. It's not lower taxes == increased revenue. Feel free to suggest what the optimal tax rate is, but don't call someone an idiot on the basis of such simplistic statement.

*Laffer curve: t* represents the rate of taxation at which maximal revenue is generated. This is the curve as drawn by Laffer, but in reality the curve need not be single peaked nor symmetrical at 50%.

Re:Uh, oh... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38456558)

Take a reading comprehension class. Learn to follow threads.

You're an idiot too.

Correct (2)

sonamchauhan (587356) | more than 2 years ago | (#38456076)

And higher taxes may increase revenue...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve [wikipedia.org]

Economist Paul Pecorino presented a model in 1995 that predicted the peak of the Laffer curve occurred at tax rates around 65%.[12] A 1996 study by Y. Hsing of the United States economy between 1959 and 1991 placed the revenue-maximizing tax rate (the point at which another marginal tax rate increase would decrease tax revenue) between 32.67% and 35.21%.[13] A 1981 paper published in the Journal of Political Economy presented a model integrating empirical data that indicated that the point of maximum tax revenue in Sweden in the 1970s would have been 70%.[14] A recent paper by Trabandt and Uhlig of the NBER presented a model that predicted that the US and most European economies are on the left of the Laffer curve (in other words, that raising taxes would raise further revenue).[15] The New Palgrave Dictionary of Economics reports that for academic studies, the mid-range for the revenue maximizing rate is around 70%.[16]

However, a study by Teather and Young of the conservative Adam Smith Institute using evidence from the Republic of Ireland has suggested that the optimal rate for capital gains tax, as opposed to income tax, may be around 20%, but this is at least partly due to savvy taxpayers holding onto assets in anticipation of tax rates being lowered in the future.[17] A 2007 study by the conservative think tank, the American Enterprise Institute, found that the revenue maximizing rate for corporate taxes in OECD countries was about 26%, down from about 34% in the 1980s.[18]

Re:Uh, oh... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38455874)

I think you might be a bit biased toward your grandfather and his Bridge group...

The generation(s) you speak of were no better and no worse than today's generations and the same applies for today's people in regards to the past. Something worth considering is whether previous generations had as many intangible battles to wage as those of today's existence. I'm talking about things pertaining to minuscule fine-print legalities we're all expected to read when we have reports to write for the classes that we're all told will make our lives better after pulling 8 hours of work each day (assuming we're lucky enough to even have a full-time job, that is). Disconnect your emotions for a second and recalibrate yourself using an increased amount of objective analysis and a decreased amount of prejudice, ageism resentment.

You remind me of something my father once said...

One day awhile back, we were both sitting around the house watching that movie "Memphis Belle" and he muttered something to me in the middle of it that I'll never forget... He said, "Those were REAL soldiers..."

Real soldiers? What did that mean, I thought to myself...

After I thought about it for awhile and dispensed my emotions from the comment, I came up with an answer... In a single sentence, he not only managed to disrespect an entire generation I grew up with and experienced life in, but he also managed to express zero appreciation for my brothers and sisters who have continued to do what they probably were forced to do against their will in some way for no other reason than waging a given war someone behind some desk told them to go fight. After all, we all have reasons to believe that today's twenty-somethings CHOOSE to go over to some barren land full of poverty-stricken villagers because "they want to be all they can be"...

So what did I do when he said that to me? I just nodded my head in a way that struck a medium between apathy and lethargic acquiescence, but I thought to myself that he just put another notch in the wood of lost respect. His generation was obviously bred in a black-and-white womb of dichotomy, similar to so many others still alive today. The scary thing is that these types are the ones usually in charge.

You see, past generation(s) had just as many stains on their sheets as ours do today. Some may see their "Great Depression" as a test of strength and wit with which they obviously passed successfully and with flying colors. They championed their dire circumstances and proved to all that they can overcome anything when they set their hearts and minds to it. Good for them! That's a real feather in their cap, right?

Personally, I see it as something they could have prevented altogether had they had their heads out of their asses and did some basic math every now-and-again. I also see it as if it's something they should definitely be humbled from and almost embarrassed to bring up.

They made it through those atrociously scary times where everyday normal people like you and I had almost no food to live off of. There is obviously a certain level of respect that comes with that for anyone who experienced with said trials, but does that mean that they should be automatically classed into a BETTER person category versus those of today? Surely not and to do so is implicit of everything I hate in today's world. They had an experience that most of us may never have. However, by no means does it mean that they're smarter, stronger, or overall "better"... It just means that their proverbial road banked left when ours seems to be curving in another direction. They had their trials and tribulations, we have ours to deal with. We'll never fully understand their challenges, but they'll never fully understand ours, too.

Greatest generation? Please... There is no such thing. It's easy to assume that something is either one thing or the other, a winner or a loser, a 1 or 0... Anyone can judge another and make that conclusion and it often wins out because it's simpler; requires less energy and effort, appeals to the masses... We do it all the time amongst ourselves and I see no reason to believe that this horrible instinct will stop anytime soon. Got a song for ya to listen to by Mike and the Mechanics called, "The Living Years."

Anyway, in my personal opinion, our current generation will one day be looked upon by our successors as the generation that broke through the wall of antiquated dichotomy and continued moving forward, embarked on the path of research and analysis. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong, but I sure as hell will never claim that my generation is the one above all... I'm not THAT dumb.

I rarely see situations anymore where anything is black or white like it undoubtedly was back in older generations' times. But they did what they could with what they had, and for this, whether they're decisions were just or not, I'll always hold an immense amount of respect for because it paints the undertones inherent of human innocence.

As for our generation and the things we're doing, well, the jury is still out as to whether this is all a good thing or bad thing (i.e. - War on Terrorism, computerization, etc.) because like precious works of art, history can only be made sense of ex post facto. Rest assured, though, there will be good things to come from us just like there will be bad things, too. No matter what happens, you can bet your ass that computers will be instrumental in it all along the way.

Re:Uh, oh... (2)

JonySuede (1908576) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455970)

Sorry to sounds like a monopolist apologist but Microsoft does it for pure CS. THE paper on monad from ms research is purely theoretical and yet F# and linq are influenced by it. The series of papers on UI from the team that made the courier experiment are top notch but it will take almost decade for them to percolate into production.

Re:Uh, oh... (1)

JonySuede (1908576) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455980)

Oh and more importantly I totally agree with the rest of your post !

Re:Uh, oh... (1)

BenJCarter (902199) | more than 2 years ago | (#38456094)

When part of the funding goes to "science" like the crony BS churned out by the IPCC, I don't see spending cuts as all bad.

Politically driven science is not science, it's politics.

Patent problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38455262)

I still think more patents brings more problem that its solve.
More patents could bring patent litigation for trivials things and stiffle innovation, like in the U.S.

I'm not surprised (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38455418)

China is the perennial champion of the International Math Olympiad.
I always contend that math is he mother of all sciences.

Re:I'm not surprised (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38455466)

prefix or postfix? (3, Informative)

robvangelder (472838) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455574)

The % sign does not appear before the number. Please do not make me angry.

Re:prefix or postfix? (1)

MoronGames (632186) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455712)

I came in here to post the same thing. How many people actually write that way?

Re:prefix or postfix? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38456570)

The same number of people that don't know the proper way of writing it.

China filed more patents than the US... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38455822)

...all of which were stolen from the US by Chinese hackers! ;)

They've patented... (1)

forkfail (228161) | more than 2 years ago | (#38455882)

... stealing from IBM, stealing from Amazon, stealing from Google, stealing from Yahoo, stealing from Microsoft, stealing from... well, pretty much everybody.

Will we finally.... (1)

apcullen (2504324) | more than 2 years ago | (#38456396)

Now that china has learned how to file obvious patents and make them sound kinda novel, will we have meaningful patent reform?

"intellectual property" sounds weird... (1)

steamengine (2536922) | more than 2 years ago | (#38456614)

What your mind creates should not be anyone's property, not even your own. If you want complete control over your ideas and creations, keep them to yourself. Once knowledge is out, it's out, you do not own it, and neither do I.

they can have it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38456740)

given the fucked up state of the American patent system, the patent system is now a hindrance rather than a stimulus to innovation.

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