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Sega Confirms Death of Dreamcast

CmdrTaco posted more than 13 years ago | from the i-want-sonic-spinball-x11 dept.

Games 268

Anonymous Coward writes "Sega of America has confirmed a $99 price drop and liquidation of all Dreamcast hardware. Peter Moore went on to say they will develop Virtua Figher 4 for the PS2, along with porting over some of Sega's older titles. He also listed all the new games that will be coming out in the next nine months. " The market is getting thinner now. We're down to PS/2, and vaporous offerings from Microsoft and Nintendo.

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268 comments

Could this be... (1)

WickedClean (230550) | more than 13 years ago | (#466256)

The beginning of the end?? Who knows...seems like the market has always been saturated with really crappy games though.

Re:CE was the cause of death (1)

geomcbay (263540) | more than 13 years ago | (#466258)

How did this get moderated as insightful? It is clearly a troll.

As others have mentioned, very few titles use Windows CE on the Dreamcast -- its optional. And those that do do not crash (believe me, I've played a good amount of Sega Rally 2, and never once did it crash (Blue Screen or otherwise)

And in terms of the killer-app for game consoles being a system that uses Linux? I am a Linux user and believe some of the Open Source rhetoric (but not all of it), but this just doesn't follow. The technology support for games even on current Linux systems is one of its main drawbacks -- despite the best efforts of the xfree/DRI people and Loki (SDL, etc), Linux as a gaming platform is still lagging several years behind Windows or even MacOS.

I'm sorry, but people should get their facts right (2)

Jayde Stargunner (207280) | more than 13 years ago | (#466261)

I don't know what the deal is with a huge rush of videogame-related posts on a chiefly tech site... But Taco's experitise, as well as that of many eager posters, has really shown its limits as of late.

First off, for those who post about the DC's failure due to WinCE, please get a clue. For starters, the DC was not a windows box. It was a custom Motorola processor (like every other Sega system) with its graphics subsystem being the NEC Power-VR chipset--neither of which have much relation to PC hardware whatsoever. It is true that the DC *ran* WinCE, however it was only a secondary operating system *available*. It only ran when the game was designed to use it--which many did not. Moreover, there was also a standard Sega programming enviroment available for development (C++-based) as well as the DC version of machine code. By no means was the DC a Windows-based machine. The functionality was only there to offer developers a more familar way to create games.

On top of all this anti-MS fever creating misrepresentation, it seems odd that so many people, including Taco himself are calling the Xbox vapor-ware. Perhaps this was the care 2 months ago, but the Xbox has officially come out of the woodwork as a real offering by this year. The official press releases have been made, the final box (basically) and controller(s) were shown at the CES show a few weeks ago, and all real gaming mags/sites have started true coverage. There is a current listing of over 20 big-name release games--two of which were on display at the CES--as well as a list of almost every name publisher signed up to develop for the Xbox. At any rate, it is hardly vaperous--in fact, it's probably less so that the pathetic showing of the PS2 on the market right now

If Slashdot is gonna go hog-wild on video game stories, they should at least try to read a gaming site (videogames.com or dailyradar.com are good ones) or pick up a copy of EGM every once and a while.

-Jayde

What about the Republic game console? (4)

D. Mann (86819) | more than 13 years ago | (#466262)

The market is getting thinner now. We're down to PS/2, and vaporous offerings from Microsoft and Nintendo.
You seem to be forgetting about the Republic console! I mean, the thing will be powered with a Voodoo 5 5500 (according to the page, "it a video card"). How can they go wrong with that? The Republic Gaming Console [00page.com]

Stupid motto (1)

Decimal (154606) | more than 13 years ago | (#466264)

I hated the "It's Thinking" bit. Worst line since Jaguar's "Do the Math." I think it hurt the Dreamcast rather than helped it. Why couldn't they have just stuck with "SEGA!!"?

Nope, sorry! (1)

erpbridge (64037) | more than 13 years ago | (#466265)

Sorry! Under current copyright protection, Sega owns the copyright to whatever they make for 50 years from the time it's copyright was set. So, it's up to Sega to say if you can or can't.... and I still can't do emulation of the SMS, let alone Dreamcast!

icanneverbereached@sogoaway.com aint my address.

Re:Dreamcast/N64 (1)

Bimble (28588) | more than 13 years ago | (#466266)

Well, if you're dying to get a console that's a pretty color, then go with the N64. ;) Otherwise, the Dreamcast has better graphics (especially if you get an S-Video or VGA output cable for it), better sound, and some great games out and on the way. The N64 has a couple Zelda games, and those alone make the N64 worth buying, but I own both consoles and have been more impressed with the Dreamcast's games.

You're awfully jaded. (1)

Hogarth (98887) | more than 13 years ago | (#466268)

Sega had a Dreamcast release that was 2-3 times more successful than Sony's PS2 release. The systems were plentiful and only a handful of the games were flawed. The system is reasonable in cost, and when it does break, Sega supports it with 2-3 week repair and shipment warranty service. I know people who sent PS2s back in November and still don't have their system back. Sega is a great company, with a great product. The only problem is when people like you wouldn't even give the thing a chance. That's why they're going out of business. Hogarth

Not in my case. (1)

SPYvSPY (166790) | more than 13 years ago | (#466269)

My Dreamcast has been on nearly 24x7 since Thanksgiving 1999. No problems whatsoever. Also, I live in NYC and it was delivered to my door within an hour of when I bought it.

That was fast (1)

YoungYoda (112518) | more than 13 years ago | (#466280)

Dreamcast in, out, gone. Weird. Almost first post.

DC ISO's (1)

RacerX7 (191645) | more than 13 years ago | (#466281)

Does this mean DC Emulation will be legal?

Pitch developmwnt for the L600 to Sega and we win (1)

Rares Marian (83629) | more than 13 years ago | (#466282)

Get sega to do dev for Indrema's box.

Psst!! It's THINKING (1)

DigitalDragon (194314) | more than 13 years ago | (#466347)

I loved those ads, and that sexy voice..

A console monopoly is good news. (1)

Lover's Arrival, The (267435) | more than 13 years ago | (#466353)

Developing a games console is a bit like developing a new aircraft or going to the moon. It requires the utmost investment in time and money. The good thing about their being a console monopoly is that one company can afford to expend lots of cash developing the ultimate games machine. We can see this with the PSX2, which has had chips specially fabricated for it, unlike the X-Box and Dreamcast, which use PC technology designed for Microsoft Word.

There is still competition within such an environmement, with different games companies competing with each other. The consoles are sold at a loss anyway, and must compete with thin client PC's, which as far as the end home user is concerned, is very similar these days.

A console monopoly is good for the market, IMO. It is good for the consumer.

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.

A little sorry to see it go (1)

kammat (114899) | more than 13 years ago | (#466356)

I'm a bit sad to see it go. I haven't picked up many games for it, but it has had a few decent games. Soul Calibur, Soul Reaver, the NFL2K series, and Virtua Tennis. I hope Sega Sports continues the excellence on its new platforms, and that the other developers bring the best of their titles elsewhere.

Dreamcast still r0x (1)

Mr804 (12397) | more than 13 years ago | (#466358)

Dreamcast still has a lot of games coming out for it. It'll be like the saturn, it had a better afterlife because collectors will get it. Also, people are WRITING software for it because the protection can be beaten so maybe there'll be a lot of home brewed stuff on it like the linux port.

Wow! New News! (3)

bellings (137948) | more than 13 years ago | (#466363)

I woke up this morning to NPR talking about the Dreamcast finally being dead. While I was drinking coffee, I opened up the NY Times to an article about Dreamcast being dead.

But until I saw it on Slashdot, I wasn't sure it was true. 'Cuz until Slashdot reports it, it ain't news.

When I heard this... (1)

Geoff (968) | more than 13 years ago | (#466366)

I heard this on the radio this morning, and my first thought was of NeXT. The "we're a software company now" thing didn't work for them; why should it work for Sega?

But, maybe developing for the PS2 market will work for them. I'd like to see them succeed. The more games the better.

Geoff

EA and Sega (1)

Angreallabeau (263172) | more than 13 years ago | (#466376)

I think the new number one third party developers will be Sega and EA. Although Square releases great software, they cannot compete with their franshices. I looking forward to EA finally having some competition with their sports titles. As we all know NFL 2K1 ruled Madden! :-)

Honestly, I was getting tired of only seeing EA sports titles on the PC and other consoles. I wonder what should I do with my Dreamcast?

Does anyone know what Sega is planning to do with their Dreamcast technology? It would be cool if they threw it our way.

-Angreal

*sigh* (1)

cryptonix (163498) | more than 13 years ago | (#466379)

yet another example of how a superior product falls due to inferior marketing, hopefully sega's developers can teach sony's a thing or two about making games on high end consoles..

PalmOS (2)

carlcory (195521) | more than 13 years ago | (#466381)

They also announced they will make games for PalmOS.

More information Here [yahoo.com]

More Vapor (1)

platos_beard (213740) | more than 13 years ago | (#466384)

Let's not forget Indrema's Linux-based vapor.

PS/2? (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#466385)

What's the PS/2? Oh, that's right! The IBM game console that never really took off. I hear a lot of banks use it, though.

Don't forget the Linux-based vaporware (3)

mattdm (1931) | more than 13 years ago | (#466388)

Don't forget the Linux-based vaporware, in the form of the Indrema console [indrema.com] . I don't know how well they'll do at getting actual games made for their platform, but the promise of tivo-like features has me intrigued.

--

Re:When I heard this... (1)

jrs (27486) | more than 13 years ago | (#466390)

It will work for Sega because they make some of the best games. Sega will definatly not become another 3DO, ugh... too.. many... army men games.

Re:A console monopoly is good news. (1)

skwull (251998) | more than 13 years ago | (#466392)

You are an idiot.

Because Sega was doing software first. . . (1)

Salgak1 (20136) | more than 13 years ago | (#466393)

. . .and in any case, started in the Arcade market, not the home-box market. . .

requiem (2)

nomadic (141991) | more than 13 years ago | (#466404)

Once again marketing (Sony, Nintendo) beats good design (Sega). At least they'll still be doing what they do best, making great games. And I guess I'll have to pick up a $99 backup dreamcast in case something happens to mine.
--

Victim of bad marketing (2)

V_M_Smith (186361) | more than 13 years ago | (#466413)

The Dreamcast was simply undermarketed. When it first came out, it was head and shoulders above anything else available. Even the PSX2 doesn't really have anything on the Dcast game- or graphics-wise. Sega really should have blitzed the media during Sony's production problems to show off all they have (had) to offer, and pick up on the Xmas rush.

At least now I may be able to get some games at a respectable discount.

So was the public cheated? (4)

JudgePagLIVR (145069) | more than 13 years ago | (#466415)

A company announces a product line, gets thousands if not millions of people to shell out the cash for it, then abandons the product. It happens all the time. The question is, did Sega imply by selling the DC that they were going to produce an extensive line of games for it? When you bought the DC, were you buying a cool piece of equipment *or* were you buying a player for cool games?

Corporate schizophrenia (1)

Prince of Jupiter (303015) | more than 13 years ago | (#466417)

Speaking of news, does anyone have any idea/heard any reason of why Sega of America denied that the console was going the way of the dodo after Sega in Japan said it was being discontinued? I don't understand corporate communication strategies well enough, apparently... Anyone out there enlightened/jaded enough to help me out on this one?

Re:CE was the cause of death (1)

jrs (27486) | more than 13 years ago | (#466420)

Developers had the choice of using the Sega OS or Windows CE, which were both on the CD. 95% of the Dreamcast games use the Sega OS, the 5% that use WinCE are quite slow.

Dreamcast/N64 (1)

mackga (990) | more than 13 years ago | (#466421)

Honest question here: with the Dreamcast dropping to $99.00 and the N64 already at $99.95 + cool colors - well YMMV - and with some pretty good games already out for the N64, is there anyway Sega can compete with Nintendo here? I realize that Sega is doing a fire sale, but with the prices pretty much even why would I get a Dreamcast over an N64?


Reason I ask is I'm looking for a newsih console to augment my Atari 5200. Any thoughts on game quality/quantity one over the other console?

A sad day for gaming (1)

MikeyNg (88437) | more than 13 years ago | (#466423)

Not so much that the Dreamcast is dead and Sega is out of the hardware business. Let's face it. This is business, and that stuff happens. But it's not like the PS2, NGC, or X-Box "beat" the Dreamcast. According to some reports, the software:hardware ratio for the Dreamcast was some 8:1 (PS2 at 2:1). It's not like the Dreamcast was a "bad" system. Perhaps it wasn't marketed very well. But the system was relatively easy to design for and could still pump out graphics on par with the PS2. *sigh*

Is console gaming going down? Right now the PS2 really isn't showing me a whole lot. Maybe I'll be a bit more impressed after E3 and after seeing Nintendo's and Microsoft's fall lineup. Oh well. It's just a sad day for video games.

January 31, 2001: The Day the Dreamcast died. RIP

Re:Pitch developmwnt for the L600 to Sega and we w (1)

Rares Marian (83629) | more than 13 years ago | (#466425)

So it's gamers vs devers now? Lovely.

Re:CE was the cause of death (2)

furiousgeorge (30912) | more than 13 years ago | (#466426)

this, dear ladies and gentleman is a troll.

Please do not feed the troll.

Re:A console monopoly is good news. (3)

jandrese (485) | more than 13 years ago | (#466427)

At the same time this is bad news. With no competition, there is little incentive to actually innovate, and the prices for the consoles will go sky high as your monopoly spends more and more money muscleing out any possible competition from the field.
Some people say that Sony is already shifting into this mentality with the rather incremental upgrade that the PS2 is instead of the groundbreaking new machine. Nintendo fell victim to this with the SNES (although they got away with it for the longest time) and now it's killing them.

In summary: Console Monopolies aren't good, and they don't last anyway.

Down that path lies madness. On the other hand, the road to hell is paved with melting snowballs.

Re:Not according to sega (1)

pet-owningISslavery (307276) | more than 13 years ago | (#466430)

All that this proves is that corporations lie and deceive. How is this new?

Get your cheap linux boxes here! (2)

Mr. Flibble (12943) | more than 13 years ago | (#466436)

Previously on slashdot: Dreamcast Runs Linux [slashdot.org] .

Oh, and it runs games or something too. So I have heard.

What ever happened to the online one? (1)

sabaco (92171) | more than 13 years ago | (#466437)

Didn't I just see something a few days ago about the dreamcast successor [slashdot.org] , that would play all dreamcast games, except not on CD, only via download? Normally I see mentions of previous articles that are related. Of course, I read slashdot daily, but some people might have missed it. :)

Nintendo? Vaporous? I think not... (3)

Raptor CK (10482) | more than 13 years ago | (#466438)

Well, Taco, you're asleep at the wheel again, I see.

You know, it's not as if the tech demos, the in game footage (Rogue Squadron 2?), and the fully functional hardware sitting in the hands of developers actually *means* anything... Noooooo...

XBox might be considered vaporous. Maybe. I've heard lots of reports of games being developed, but I haven't seen any running games on it yet, while I have for the GameCube. See, vaporware usually implies that nothing exists outside of closed doors. In this case, info is out in the open, demos have been run, the bare metal is being used already. Granted, it hasn't shipped, but that's a totally different story, and one that I'd rather not deal with at the moment.

Seriously, though... you've really got to stop adding your own personal bias so forcefully to your content. Take a hint from real journalists. If you're partial, be subtle about it.


Raptor

Well then this is a good monopoly too. (1)

Ratteau (183242) | more than 13 years ago | (#466439)

Developing an operating system is a bit like developing a new aircraft or going to the moon. It requires the utmost investment in time and money. The good thing about their being an operating system monopoly is that one company can afford to expend lots of cash developing the ultimate operating system. We can see this with Windows, which has had chips specially fabricated for it, unlike the MAC, which uses Intel technology designed for Windows.

There is still competition within such an environmement, with different games companies competing with each other. The operating systems are sold at a loss anyway, and must compete with free Linux distributions, which as far as the end home user is concerned, is very similar these days.

An operating system monopoly is good for the market, IMO. It is good for the consumer.

Reholster the flamethrowers and realize I am playing devil's advocate here. No monopoly is a good thing.

Oh shut up (4)

MrP- (45616) | more than 13 years ago | (#466440)

you troll.... its CE capable, it doesnt run CE, the majority of DC games use the sega os (a modified ver of the saturn os). The games that do use CE dont get blue screens, and the OS is installed on the cd so the developer can choose what to use.

Either way, this sucks, I love my dreamcast, i dont want to buy a PS2. But if they ever release a sonic game for PS2 ill be forced to buy one, sonic adventure is the only reason I bought a dreamcast (although i bought more games after)... crazy taxi 2, sonic adventure 2, and shenmue 2, must get 'em.

-----

Inside scoop for whats next? (1)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 13 years ago | (#466443)

Since this rumor is true, that means that Sega will be making PS2, N-Cube, and XBox games, not to mention that Sony, Nintendo, AND Microsoft will ALL buy Sega and dump all the ET Dreamcast games into a landfill in New Mexico!
Then Tribes2, Warcraft3, and Black'n'White will all be released simultaneously... TOMORROW! Hurry and buy yourself a copy first thing tomorrow morning. And then the next day Microsoft will be releasing its Bug-free versions of Win2k, and WinME, and Linux will fall in shame!

Nothing like having one little rumor come true to start some gossip :-)

--

This is what customer loyalty brings... (1)

smoondog (85133) | more than 13 years ago | (#466445)

It is too bad that business decisions like this really only slap loyal customers. Sega works very hard to make customers feel wanted, loved and needed . Sega should open up the platform so that others can develop games and platforms so customers aren't totally screwed...

-Moondog

*Ahem!* (1)

johnhyland (187827) | more than 13 years ago | (#466446)

We're down to PS/2, and vaporous offerings from Microsoft and Nintendo.

Gee, Rob, are your forgetting somebody [indrema.com] ?

Stuff (2)

Fervent (178271) | more than 13 years ago | (#466449)

I posted this way earlier (like 1 AM) with a ton of links, but I guess the night shift hates video games.

Anyway, check out this article [cnet.com] with news on where Sega is heading, including making games for PS2, Gamecube and Gameboy Advance.

Sega's got a good head on its shoulders when it comes to software. I wouldn't fret about them totally dying out (and I can't wait to see the Sega developers cut loose on the PS2. They might release some of the best games to hit the system).

Re:EA and Sega (1)

DJ Wipeout (139210) | more than 13 years ago | (#466450)

Maybe you haven't been paying attention but EA and Square are essentially the same thing, anymore. Both companies have cross-marketing agreements for their respective countries (EA markets Square in the US, Square markets EA in Japan) and are working together on projects.

Blame Marketing? (1)

Sodakar (205398) | more than 13 years ago | (#466451)

I find it amazing that so many people blame marketing, when simple game reviews and game titles sold (volume) will show that the PSX had "bigger hits" (per console unit owned) than the Dreamcast.

IMHO, both consoles had good games, but the PSX simply had more variety, more choices, and when you're choosing between a slab of steak vs. a full-course meal, you choose the full-course meal...

Bad analogies, I know.. but.. don't blame marketing... 9.9.99 was promoted quite well by Sega. (release date of the Dreamcast in the US)

Re:Dreamcast/N64 (1)

jrs (27486) | more than 13 years ago | (#466453)

Both are still good consoles.

The Dreamcast still has about 100 titles coming out this year. Some current titles that are just excellent are Skies of Arcadia and Jet Grind Radio.

The N64 is nearly dead, with about 3 or 4 titles still coming out. One title I'm really interested in is Conkers Bad Fur day. Remember back in the day when Nintendo didn't want blood in Mortal Kombat? They've kept a strict policy on violence in their games up until Conkers. It just destroys everything Nintendo did belive in. Conkers is also by Rare.

So the choices are... (1)

Avumede (111087) | more than 13 years ago | (#466455)

If you want a new console system soon, here are the choices as I see them:

Dreamcast: Out of business. Cheap, though.

PlayStation 2: It may be out, but no one knows when this will be available. You want one? Wait for a few months and check again.

XBox: Supposedly coming out this year. Probably Christmas-time! I'm sure it'll be easy to get! Sarcasm aside, this one probably won't be available until some time next year.

Nintendo Game Cube: Not much hype around this one, despite some great screen shots. Same deal as with x-box, who knows when you will be able to get it. Probably some time next year.

Anyway, in my mind, if you don't want to wait more than a year for your system, either get a Dreamcast for cheap, or wait a few months for the more expensive Playstation 2. It's actually a difficult choice to make now.

sad (1)

Lowdown (84458) | more than 13 years ago | (#466457)

too bad. it was a nice little machine. of course, Sony announcing the PS2 right after it was released slaughtered it.
i got my money's worth out of it. some of the games released for it are amazing.
At least they'll still be doing software. Sega makes great games and i was going to buy a PS2 (and an X-Box and a Gamecube cause i'm a junkie like that) anyways.

Exactly (1)

amnesty (69314) | more than 13 years ago | (#466460)

We can see this with the PSX2, which has had chips specially fabricated for it, unlike the X-Box and Dreamcast, which use PC technology designed for Microsoft Word.

Consoles sold a lot better in the 80's because they were very good at what they did: play games. The controls were quick and easy, the games had intuitive interfaces. The hardware was designed for a purpose, to make games. So the Super Nintendo hardware & libraries could get programmers moving those sprites around quickly and easily, while PC makers had write libraries and code that would get the PC to work to its potential as an all-purpose device.

Fast forward to 2001, where the average MS Word-using office worker needs only a P2-300 at most to survive, and yet Intel & AMD are trying to convince them that 1 GHZ will give their MS Word an incredible speed increase. So PC games have much too much power, and the console can barely compete. But perhaps with a monopoly and a kickass piece of hardware designed for gaming the consoles can come back and become a better than blah experience.


Meh (1)

batbert (309711) | more than 13 years ago | (#466462)

I hate Sony.

Re:Wow! New News! (3)

EastCoastSurfer (310758) | more than 13 years ago | (#466464)

But until I saw it on Slashdot, I wasn't sure it was true. 'Cuz until Slashdot reports it, it ain't news. With the way slashdot has been posting stories lately I was sure it was true until I saw it on /.

Re:DC ISO's (3)

Fervent (178271) | more than 13 years ago | (#466468)

They're continuing software development, so the ISO's will be illegal. Emulating the hardware is, and has always been, legal.

Re:Blame Marketing? (1)

Lowdown (84458) | more than 13 years ago | (#466469)

yes blame marketing. right as the dreamcast was launched Sony announced the PS2 and said it would be backwards compatible with all PS1 titles (which of course it isn't). people who had ps1's didn't upgrade to a dreamcast because they thought they'd just wait for PS2 and save their software investment.
people who didn't have consoles decided to wait for the PS2 because Sony out marketed Sega

Re:EA and Sega (1)

wtmcgee (113309) | more than 13 years ago | (#466470)

did you play madden 2001 for PS2? i couldnt bear to look at the graphics and play 2k1 after i touched madden. granted, much credit must be given to the sega sports team for writing a game that can compete with madden after only 2 years (madden has been going strong for years now). Both have their strong points (2k1 has the best in game commentary i've ever heard) but overall madden is too in depth and much more detailed than 2k1.

MP3 player? Set-top box? (1)

JohnTheFisherman (225485) | more than 13 years ago | (#466471)

Does anybody have any info on using this as an MP3 player, or other similar hack? The original site with the BSD port seems to be down, and every hit on a search engine only seems to turn up pirated games or some portable player that plugs into the dreamcast.

It seems to be able do download mp3s into its RAM and play them, but can you drop a CDR of MP3s in and play them? How about m3u files?

This is not surprising at all. (4)

Ace905 (163071) | more than 13 years ago | (#466472)

I worked at CompuCentre when the Dreamcast first came out - our in store demo had to be replaced twice because of problems with the Console itself burning out.

We got tonnes of customers around Christmas who wanted the standard items, like, an extra Controller. Sega kept promising delivery, but most of the stuff people were looking didn't show up for 4 months!

Games were released that Sega quickly found didn't actually work in the console (Something to do with the quality of the CD they printed the games on causing problems with the copy-protection scheme in the console).

People who bought the consoles despite these major flaws (And me telling them when the boss was in the back room "Don't buy this thing, it's absolute crap! it really is, seriously, don't.... ever. don't.") - well, these people showed up week after week waiting for the games scheduled for quick release; and they didn't come out on time either. By the time I left compucentre, they had all the controllers, memory packs and lots and lots of games for the Dreamcast - as well as 4 console units that never sold in 4 months because by that time - nobody wanted the damn things.

This particular store could sell 5 - 10 Playstation Consoles in a single day; which is very good for retail in a small Canadian city eh.

No independent software because of DMCA (2)

yerricde (125198) | more than 13 years ago | (#466473)

Also, people are WRITING software for it because the protection can be beaten

The boot sector of all Dreamcast discs contains an access control measure under the DMCA: it contains 14 KB of data that must match data in ROM bit-for-bit, or the disc won't boot. And this 14 KB of data contains code that displays trademarks (renewable perpetually in the USA) and is copyrighted (also perpetual [8m.com] in the USA).


Like Tetris? Like drugs? Ever try combining them? [pineight.com]

Re:Sigh.... (2)

the Man in Black (102634) | more than 13 years ago | (#466474)

Yes.

Works, though.

--Just Another Pimp A$$ Perl Hacker

Re:Pitch developmwnt for the L600 to Sega and we w (1)

Rares Marian (83629) | more than 13 years ago | (#466475)

Indrema is shit... How do you figure that? Especially since I don't need to buy a devbox to make games. I can develop right in Debian. The chief hiimself said so durinmg an online chat. I need one later on just to certify my game and libraries. And even that's not necessarily true. PS2 dev nightmare... I can't qualify this. but I sure as hell am not buying a devbox. Though I hear they use Linux for development as well. XBox... This is a definite contender, only because Microsoft plays it smart when they get started in a market, then they get lazy. It has all the features of upcoming boxes because Microsoft can juggle all the effort. Course they're STILL using Linux to develop for it, cross-compiling until NT boots on it. NT 351 did however boot but MS went mikrokernel happy. As far as I can see all are using Linux on the machines. I've already got a devbox, I already have the libraries, I have perfect freedom to add my own libraries. Indrema is a win for me.

Re:Pitch developmwnt for the L600 to Sega and we w (1)

Rares Marian (83629) | more than 13 years ago | (#466476)

Indrema is shit... How do you figure that? Especially since I don't need to buy a devbox to make games. I can develop right in Debian. The chief hiimself said so durinmg an online chat. I need one later on just to certify my game and libraries. And even that's not necessarily true. PS2 dev nightmare... I can't qualify this. but I sure as hell am not buying a devbox. Though I hear they use Linux for development as well. XBox... This is a definite contender, only because Microsoft plays it smart when they get started in a market, then they get lazy. It has all the features of upcoming boxes because Microsoft can juggle all the effort. Course they're STILL using Linux to develop for it, cross-compiling until NT boots on it. NT 351 did however boot but MS went mikrokernel happy. As far as I can see all are using Linux on the machines. I've already got a devbox, I already have the libraries, I have perfect freedom to add my own libraries. Indrema is a win for me.

Re:Nintendo? Vaporous? I think not... (2)

sammy baby (14909) | more than 13 years ago | (#466477)

Seriously, though... you've really got to stop adding your own personal bias so forcefully to your content.
Easy there, tiger. This is probably a good occasion to exercise Hanlon's Razor [tuxedo.org] .

-----
"You owe me a case of beer. Sucka'."

Re:Dreamcast/N64 (1)

Rurik (113882) | more than 13 years ago | (#466478)

Well, besides that N64 has a controller that only a youth could use (and does use). Each has a different target audience, and different games for that audience. N64 is targeted towards pre-teens, has cutesy colors, cutesy games, that are sure not to offend many people. DreamCast is targeted for older teenagers and some adults, with more provocative games that cover a wide area of subjects. PSX and DC pretty much have the same target audience, though I think PSX tries to go for the more adult audience, that wants to sit and involve themselves into a game.

Thank you! (1)

Amnesiak (12487) | more than 13 years ago | (#466479)

I was going to write the same thing, but you stated my thoughts beautifully.

The way of things to come (3)

erpbridge (64037) | more than 13 years ago | (#466480)

Unfortunately, the death of the Dreamcast has given us a view of things to come.

The major console systems as of before Dreamcast bowed out were Nintendo (Nintendo 64), Sony (Playstation 2) and Sega (Dreamcast), with Microsoft coming soon with the X-box. Nintendo has been slowly dying out over the past few years, with much of the Nintendo and Sega crowd going over to the Playstation and Playstation 2.

What it looks like will happen is that in a year or so, we will hear Nintendo barely hanging on as the X-box comes out. Unless Nintendo pulls a power move, probably in the handheld gaming market (which will probably be the rumored upcoming GameBoy Advance), they will bow out soon also.

Sony will be the only competitor to Microsoft. Hopefully, Sony will solidify it's consumer base and hold on to them with a drastic reduce in price of it's console and a wide variety of good, solid games, along with development of their online gaming division.

Unfortunately, what probably will happen is that Sony will drop the ball this year. Microsoft will release the X-box to a small audience and start out slow. The X-box and PS2 will be in competition for about a year, maybe 18 months, with Microsoft gaining ground as Sony loses ground. Microsoft will win out by offering lower prices and integration with the PC platform, along with a wide variety of online games. This will probably also lead to Microsoft licensing it's game operating system, and new consoles, all running X-box OS will pop up, all sanctioned by Microsoft. Sony will become a very minor player, eventually dying out sometime in the next 5 years.

Unfortunately, that's the way it most likely will turn out.

icanneverbereached@sogoaway.com aint my address.

Re:A console monopoly is good news. (5)

jayhawk88 (160512) | more than 13 years ago | (#466481)

Baloney. If Nintendo had kept hold of their "almost monopoly" they had on the console market back in the SNES days (there were others there, but they weren't much of a threat), we'd still be playing games squeezed on ROM chip carts. As it is, Nintendo tried to get away with that aging technology with the N64, and they got butchered by the PS1. If not for the incredible character lineup (Pokemon, Mario, etc), the N64 might have been the death of Nintendo.

On the contrary, console competition is a good thing, just like it is in practically every other business. Sony kinda fscked up with the PS2 release, by limiting (intentionally or not) the number of units, and not having a good selection of games at release. The result? A bunch of pissed off gamers who can't get a PS2, and another bunch who got them, but are wondering why they bothered for 3-4 decent games.

Think maybe MS and Nintendo will take a cue from that? One can only imagine the marketing opportunities. "XBox: Go ahead and sleep in, we made plenty". "GameCube: Cause one game isn't enough".

Re:A console monopoly is good news. (1)

pet-owningISslavery (307276) | more than 13 years ago | (#466482)

With no competition, there is little incentive to actually innovate, and the prices for the consoles will go sky high as your monopoly spends more and more money muscleing out any possible competition from the field.

Well, of course. Sony's stated motive is to extort as much money out of the common man as it possibly can. What do you expect them to do?

I do have a related question, though: when the government exists to protect its constituents, why does it let these situations go unchecked so often? This is exactly what governments are supposed to prevent.

Re:Dreamcast/N64 (2)

Fervent (178271) | more than 13 years ago | (#466483)

Huh? I can count the good games that came out on one hand, and I bought the N64 the day it came out for $350! Goldeneye, Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Smash Bros.

Re:Not according to sega (1)

Eccles (932) | more than 13 years ago | (#466484)

They denied that they were dumping Dreamcast a week ago

No they didn't, they "reaffirmed their committment" or some other such weasel words. Lying about such things in official statements would get them sued by investors.

It's fun seeing how many people and organizations were decieved by the phrasing.

Re:DC ISO's (1)

ethereal (13958) | more than 13 years ago | (#466485)

Even if there were no continuing software development, distributing copies of copyrighted games would still be illegal. Which is why you can still get in trouble for distributing SNES roms, etc.

My question: doesn't it kind of put a damper on the next year of DC games if you won't be able to buy the platform after March or so? IGN had an article (just follow the links) describing how Jet Grind Radio 2 and Crazy Taxi 2 would be these huge hits for Sega this year, but I don't see anyone buying them if the platform is going away. Especially since some of those games will definitely show up on the PS2 (like Crazy Taxi is apparently going to).

If there was anything that guaranteed the PS2's success, it was this: Sega got the hell out of their way, and has basically handed them the market. I don't see how Microsoft or even Nintendo can get anything on the market fast enough to catch the disgruntled DreamCast owners who are fleeing a dead-end console.

I sound bitter mostly because I really liked the DC games I had seen and was planning to get one in a month or so. Now I guess I'll wait for Crazy Taxi for PS2, I suppose. Oh well, at least this announcement came before I plunked down my $$$, and not after :)

My take (3)

GeorgeH (5469) | more than 13 years ago | (#466486)

I'm sad to see this happen, but my friends will be happy to get dreamcasts for $100. I suggest anyone reading this go out on Feb 4th (when the pricebreaks happen) and buy one, it's a fantastic system. There's a ton of good games out, and a lot of them are only $20. Check out Crazy Taxi (ultimate party game), Soul Caliber, and Target's current offerings [target.com] .

The dreamcast is the only online console right now, and according to UPS my ethernet adapter should be on my doorstep this afternoon. Phantasy Star Online ought to kick ass, and give Everquesters a run for their money.

Someone pointed out that the DC runs WinCE, which isn't true most of the time, but it is for Nightmare Creatures 2, as evidenced by the first 10 minutes of playing the game on my birthday: Pic 1 [the-collective.net] , Pic 2 [the-collective.net]

Sega makes some of the most unique games out there, from Jet Grind Radio to Seaman to Crazy Taxi... It would be worth your while to check them out if you haven't already.

My $0.02
--

Re:CE was the cause of death (1)

getch(); (164701) | more than 13 years ago | (#466487)

I actually thought that was a pretty decent troll. Maybe even satirical.

Of course, I could be wrong and it was just stupid. Who knows?

PS/2? No way, it's PSX2! (3)

Mr T (21709) | more than 13 years ago | (#466488)

the Playstations 2 is the PSX2, never, under any circumstances should it be referred to as the PS/2. PS/2 brings up bad memories of MCA and other nasties.

Re:A console monopoly is good news. (1)

zaxus (105404) | more than 13 years ago | (#466489)

I do have a related question, though: when the government exists to protect its constituents, why does it let these situations go unchecked so often? This is exactly what governments are supposed to prevent.

Monopolies are not illegal, at least not here in the US. The only thing that is illegal is using your monopoly to stifle competition (such as M$ forcing computer manufacturers to install Windoze on all machines or lose their Windoze licensing priveledges).


---

Last in a long line.. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#466490)

Genesis, Saturn, Dreamcast - I think I see a pattern!!

Re:Corporate schizophrenia (1)

Ralph Wiggam (22354) | more than 13 years ago | (#466491)

IIRC nobody ever denied that the Dreamcast was being axed. They denied that any official statement had been made (which was true). Now the official statement HAS been made and all the press releases are out and all the proper people have been briefed.

-B

I remember thinking "Sony can't possibly win"... (2)

lwagner (230491) | more than 13 years ago | (#466492)

...when the PS1 came out and it was really selling slowly at first. I was thinking, "Sony has been dominant in so many industries, they can't possibly be dominate gaming!" Man, I was wrong.

The PS1, IMHO, sucked compared to the competition but it had so many damn games... and that is peoples' main motivation for buying a console: does it have games? Is this an investment that I can buy other games for?

It just goes to show that Microsoft and Sony both know how to market aggressively and appeal to the people/industries at large.

What I can't wait to see is them going head-to-head. It's really going to get interesting now, since neither one has been known to back down from an industry.
--

survival of the fittest (1)

Starbreeze (209787) | more than 13 years ago | (#466493)

survival of the fittest baybee...

Re:*Ahem!* (1)

sxpert (139117) | more than 13 years ago | (#466494)

That's also in the vaporous category (I don't call a 3D rendering an actual, working, product...)

Re:Corporate schizophrenia (2)

Rurik (113882) | more than 13 years ago | (#466495)

DC is selling in America, not in Japan. The Japanese don't want it for some reason. So Sega of Japan is dropping support. In the states, though, people are buying DC's up like crazy, so Sega of America will continue to support it.

Re:Well then this is a good monopoly too. (1)

Ratteau (183242) | more than 13 years ago | (#466496)

yeah, I saw that after rereading it a 2nd time :)

i disagree (1)

Lowdown (84458) | more than 13 years ago | (#466497)

Point A) Nintendo's next console has been announced. with the power of their franchises (mario, zelda, et. al.) they'll sell a lot of gamecubes.
the gameboy advance has like, zero competition. they will rake in so much dough off it they could probably afford to support a loss-making console business.
Point B) Sony is...well...Sony. the company's name is synonymous with quality consumer electronics. the word Playstation is on it's way to becoming another Kleenex or Saranwrap. PC people think of Microsoft as an unstopable Goliath but they're about to jump into a market that Sony basically owns. one where they have almost no reputation.

this is going to be a great fight to watch.

Re:So the choices are... (1)

sxpert (139117) | more than 13 years ago | (#466498)

maybe sega thinks marketing the thing the inkjet printer manufacturers do : give the console for cheap, and make the most profit on the games... (that is sell things for $99 and make a profit of about $50 a game.)

Re:CE was the cause of death (1)

segfault7375 (135849) | more than 13 years ago | (#466499)

The truely killer-app for game consoles will be the system that first comes to market using Linux as an OS. The benefits of using Linux should be apparent to all, and it is rather suprising that nobody has done so yet. Most likely this is due to Microsoft's monopolistic tactics and its using its market strength to force companies to use something inferior. Or gee, could it be because linux sucks balls for gaming? Unless you want to play Tux Racer, Quake 3, or Unreal Tournament, Linux gaming ain't exactly hopping these days, and to top it off, several developers have said they won't be doing linux games anymore because no one is buying them.

segfaulteq@home.com [mailto]

Re:Sigh.... (1)

pet-owningISslavery (307276) | more than 13 years ago | (#466500)

Hello? Whatever happened to the triumph of the human spirit? Lofty goals? Standards?

What you need to learn is that it is not right to have so little respect for other people's worth as individual human beings. Each person is unique, each person is valuable, and denying this is simply a short-sighted, materialistic fantasy.

So have your Super Bowls and your SUV's and your game consoles. But don't be shocked when your nation is cursed and spat on by every other for the injustices it commits for you. Don't come complaining when you regret your empty, wealth-obsessed life. Don't be surprised when those you've trampled on to get your little toys decide to stop being so docile.

Go on, pampered little sheep, ignore the real world. Just keep in mind that, someday, it's going to stop ignoring you.

Don't forget Be... (1)

lowe0 (136140) | more than 13 years ago | (#466501)

They're still around, and they're a "software company".

Re:DC ISO's (2)

Fervent (178271) | more than 13 years ago | (#466502)

I love the Dreamcast, and I agree with you, this certainly puts a damper on the next year. I'm looking forward to these games as well, and fortunately, I already own a system to enjoy it.

Dreamcast NOT Dead (5)

Puk (80503) | more than 13 years ago | (#466503)

I hate to be another "did you read the article" poster, but they are not dropping the Dreamcast platform, they're just stopping their own production of the Dreamcast console and licensing the technology out so someone else can do that part (better/cheaper). The console sales were always the least profitable (sometimes blatantly unprofitable) part of the whole proposition.

There will be more Dreamcast games, more Dreamcast accessories, and, in all likelihood, more Dreamcast (or Dreamcast-compatible) consoles. Look at the other articles on IGN (http://dreamcast.ign.com/news/30862.html, for instance) for more details.

-Puk

Re:The way of things to come (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#466506)

Wait a minute, you're cheering SONY over MS?!? If you hate MS you should want to blow up Sony. If anyone deserves to be cut out of the race, it is Sony, talk about cheesy. I'm sad about Sega, but I think you got it slighly wrong. I'm predicting PS2 is not going to go over well a year from now, Nintendo always has at least a handful of incredible games to move systems. And XBOX will be right up there no doubt. Just look at Nintendo though, they are a true gaming company. For instance, I have a ps1 w/ 30+ games right now, do I like any of them? no? I have an n64 w/ 3 games, do i absolutely love all of them? Yes. I would play Zelda, Mario Kart, and StarFox every day if I had the time. I think we'll have the same story with GameCube, those handful of franchise games will carry it, and XBOX will be on top. My prediction: a year from now we'll be talking about Nintendo Vs. MS. Sony and Sega will be meaningless in the console wars. And yes, I'm usually right about these kinds of things.

Not hardly, (1)

Vermifax (3687) | more than 13 years ago | (#466508)

More like "Marketing+good games" beats "Crappy Marketing + good games" Design of the console has never been what made it sell well. It is ALL about the software and if you don't know about the software, masses won't buy it.

Vermifax

This bodes well... (1)

megaduck (250895) | more than 13 years ago | (#466512)

...for the PS2.
One of the major complaints about the PS2 has been the lack of quality games. With Sega making great games for the PS2 (Virtua Fighter 4, Shenmue 2, etc.), the PS2 will probably beat the stuffing out of the XBox or the GameCube.

The Story of Tacos Hipocriteus (1)

Merlin_ (22156) | more than 13 years ago | (#466514)

It seems that CmdrTaco knows very well the distinction between Vapor and Non-Vapor products, but he is simply biased depending on what camp he is defending in his posting comments. His damnation [http] about placing the Linux 2.4 kernel on a vaporware list by saying he'd been running it for many months is equivalent to the beta-testers that are running the new Nintendo consoles. Thanks for the wonderful lesson Taco, but I'm still confused as to where you stand.

Re:A console monopoly is good news. (1)

pet-owningISslavery (307276) | more than 13 years ago | (#466516)

Monopolies are not illegal, at least not here in the US.

Go back and read my earlier comment. I never said anything about monopolies. What the government should be doing is preventing companies from extorting money from the consumer, no matter what the means. If this means outlawing monopolies, great. If there's a better way, that's fine too. So long as the corporations are kept in check, it doesn't much matter what the means are.

You're kidding, right? (3)

Temporal (96070) | more than 13 years ago | (#466518)

If there is a console monopoly, there will be no advancement in the console game market. If the PS2 were the only console available, we'd have nothing but PS2 for years to come. I don't know about you, but I like it when technology advances. Monopolies are almost never a good thing.

------

Re:MP3 player? Set-top box? (1)

idioto (259918) | more than 13 years ago | (#466519)

http://www.dcemulation.com

OH well good reason to buy the XBOX now... (1)

rigor6969 (240549) | more than 13 years ago | (#466520)

Donate your dreamcast with all your warez to underpriviledged child! Still a fun console, sucks that it didn't last long at all! ==sam==free nessus vulnerability assessments=www.vulnerabilities.org
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