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How the Tevatron Influenced Computing

Soulskill posted about 2 years ago | from the data-driven-innovation dept.

Supercomputing 66

New submitter SciComGeek writes "Few laypeople think of computing innovation in connection with the Tevatron particle accelerator, which shut down earlier this year. Mention of the Tevatron inspires images of majestic machinery, or thoughts of immense energies and groundbreaking physics research, not circuit boards, hardware, networks, and software. Yet over the course of more than three decades of planning and operation, a tremendous amount of computing innovation was necessary to keep the data flowing and physics results coming. Those innovations will continue to influence scientific computing and data analysis for years to come."

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66 comments

And the web... (2)

InfiniteZero (587028) | about 2 years ago | (#38471510)

And the web was created at CERN. Enough said.

Re:And the web... (4, Informative)

mcgrew (92797) | about 2 years ago | (#38471822)

U of I [illinois.edu] have had supercomputers for decades. Of course a lot of computation is needed for the Tevatron, from controlling the streams to analyzing the data. U of I is also home to the Tevatron. [illinois.edu]

Odd that people don't think of Illinois when they think of computing and physics.

Re: HAL was from Illinois (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#38472048)

Odd that people don't think of Illinois when they think of computing and physics.

I do.

Good afternoon, gentlemen. I am a HAL 9000 computer. I became operational at the H.A.L. plant in Urbana, Illinois on the 12th of January 1992. My instructor was Mr. Langley, and he taught me to sing a song. If you'd like to hear it I can sing it for you.

Re:And the web... (2)

vondo (303621) | about 2 years ago | (#38472068)

U of I is not home to the Tevatron. That's a page for people who are at U of I and work on the Tevatron. Illinois (the state) is the home of the Tevatron.

Fermilab was built by the DOE and managed by a consortium of universities. It's now run as a partnership between that consortium and the U of Chicago.

Re:And the web... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#38472480)

I live not far from it. It is maintained quite well. The land is home to bison, and the ring road is nice for a bike ride in the spring and summer. The cultural events and lectures hosted at Fermilab are quite enjoyable and affordable as well.

Re:And the web... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38478248)

Nope, U of I had nothing to do with Mosaic... Not a thing, right? Which lead to Netscape Navigator and all that jazz.

But sure, HTML as created by CERN on it's own is great isn't it? Not like you really need a browser to read it.

Re:And the web...What! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#38473212)

uh, wrong. Zerox and IBM.

Re:And the web...What! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#38475334)

The web is generally what we refer to HTML based pages as. The Internet is generally what we use as a catch all for various technologies like FTP, HTML, Torrents, IRC, whatever. That particular markup language that we now consider the web was created at CERN. Perhaps you are confusing terminology.

Re:And the web...What! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38478162)

HTML is based almost entirely on SGML, which was invented in 1969 at IBM, 20 years before the supposed 'invention' of HTML at CERN. Perhaps you should learn some history.

Rose-tinted glasses (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#38473440)

And the web was created at CERN.

Not to mention Scientific Linux (which was frankly unusable it was so out of date until CERN took over) and ROOT and a whole host of other particle physics computing applications. In fact the whole article is the most rose-tinted, inaccurate view of Fermilab computing I have ever seen - perhaps they should have talked to some of the users of that computing on the experiments. Rather than leading the charge into Linux computing farms Fermilab had to be dragged kicking and screaming away from their large monolithic mainframe-like SGI machines. The D0 experiment only managed to escape when they clustered their desktop linux machines and produced an analysis cluster with more CPU power than the SGI mainframe Fermilab expected them to use...and even then rather than admit they were going in the wrong direction Fermilab management tried to shut the cluster down using computer security arguments. This despite the rather amazing fact that the only Linux machines which were ever compromised were those not part of the analysis cluster and which Fermilab computing was responsible for managing!

SAM was even more of a joke. It would rarely ever manage to get all your datafiles without multiple attempts and it hid the relevant error messages in log files which required root-level access to read. In addition it had configuration parameters hard-coded and compiled into some of its C++ code which made portability exceedingly hard - not a good design for a distributed computing tool! However the SAM team were always exceedingly good at selling their project so the upper management were always impressed by it - the sad reality was though that it was barely (if at all) capable of delivering on those promises and had the upper management actually been using the thing I doubt they would have been even half as impressed!

All that being said the FNAL computing division had a lot of very competent and talented people working in it. Unfortunately they were kept from actually improving things by a computer security group that used fear and intimidation to keep them in line (like the SS but called the CS!). This "security" group refused to implement a firewall, SSH etc. and, instead, had a detailed _written_ policy about what users could and could not do which they enforced in an arbitrary fashion, threatening to fire people if they did not do as they were told.

I believe things have now improved somewhat and computer security now has more sane and competent people in charge of it but frankly, at the height of the Tevatron, Fermilab computing was anything but innovative and leading the way - they were dragging their heels and were far more of an obstacle than an asset. They were literally forced to improve by the experiments - albeit with the tacit approval and behind the scenes encouragement and help of many of their computing staff who were fed up with the way things were being run.

Re:Rose-tinted glasses (2)

SciComGeek (2537574) | about 2 years ago | (#38473710)

Not to mention Scientific Linux (which was frankly unusable it was so out of date until CERN took over)

I can't comment on the rest of what is written here, but this statement in particular is definitely a false statement. CERN did not take over this project. Scientific Linux remains a collaboration between the two labs. See:

SL is a Linux release put together by Fermilab, CERN, and various other labs and universities around the world. Its primary purpose is to reduce duplicated effort of the labs, and to have a common install base for the various experimenters. -From http://www.scientificlinux.org/ [scientificlinux.org]

If you click on the "about" page, you'll see that there are two "main" developers from Fermilab, two from CERN, one from DESY, and one from ETHZ.

Re:Rose-tinted glasses (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#38473962)

I can't comment on the rest of what is written here, but this statement in particular is definitely a false statement. CERN did not take over this project. Scientific Linux remains a collaboration between the two labs.

Officially true. However given the state of 'Fermilinux' when they combined and how much things improved it was very clear where the project leadership was really coming from. As further indication of CERN's impact all the Scientific Linux installations that I am aware of use 'SLC' the CERN variant - I've not heard of anyone using the Fermilab variant - although I assume that at least Fermilab do!

Re:Rose-tinted glasses (1)

SciComGeek (2537574) | about 2 years ago | (#38474240)

I can't comment on the rest of what is written here, but this statement in particular is definitely a false statement. CERN did not take over this project. Scientific Linux remains a collaboration between the two labs.

Officially true. However given the state of 'Fermilinux' when they combined and how much things improved it was very clear where the project leadership was really coming from.

Your logic here is fallacious. Fermi Linux was never intended for internal use, and it had a small team with limited time to work on it. The improvement you cite could just as well be attributed to the fact that you can accomplish more with more people working on it, and the fact that they were now designing it for outside use.

As for how the project progressed, it came out of a HEPIX meeting in 2003. The Red Hat change was discussed, and the system's two Fermilab developers went home, repackaged it, and returned to the 2004 HEPIX meeting with a RHEL 3 rebuild - Scientific Linux 3.0.1. My understanding is that the collaboration with CERN occurred AFTER that.

As further indication of CERN's impact all the Scientific Linux installations that I am aware of use 'SLC' the CERN variant - I've not heard of anyone using the Fermilab variant - although I assume that at least Fermilab do!

Multiple personal experiences != data. Your sample is biased by virtue of your own work, whatever it is, and the people you associate with. Your sample is also too small, when measured against the millions of downloads. What's more, it is the generic version of Scientific Linux that is used most widely, and not the Fermi or CERN versions.

Re:Rose-tinted glasses (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#38475770)

Fermi Linux was never intended for internal use

...and yet it did lovely things like hardcode the timezone to use Central time, hard coded the default Kerberos realm to Fermilab etc....or did you mean to say ONLY intended for internal use?

 

Your sample is biased by virtue of your own work, whatever it is, and the people you associate with.

That is also true of you. However the people I associated with would be D0 which was one of the two major experiments on the Tevatron and since this article is arguing about Tevatron computing I would claim that is significant. It is certainly true to say that not everyone on D0 would agree but I would argue that a significant fraction would.

Re:Rose-tinted glasses (2)

rubycodez (864176) | about 2 years ago | (#38474514)

what a bullshit fairy tale. Various clusters were built of SGI, IBM workstations and DEC vaxstations. There were CADD/CAE groups who liked SGI machine (and others who used PCs and others with Sun) and some of those had SGI servers,. Until 1995, "the mainframe" for physics use outside of the clusters was an Amdahl, IBM mainframe clone on steroids (actually won over competing supercomputer bids!). First PC farm with dual pentium iii at 333MHz was in 1998. I was there.

Re:Rose-tinted glasses (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#38475996)

Care to explain this [fnal.gov] then? That was from 1997 and was not the last SGI purchased for physics use on D0 which was one of the two major experiments on the Tevatron and so highly relevant to a topic on Tevatron computing. I'd hazard a guess that the machines you refer to were primarily for non-Tevatron users.

Re:Rose-tinted glasses (1)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 2 years ago | (#38482864)

yes, D-0 mainly used compute farms at the time. Those two servers were NOT the main experimental data processing systems of D0 and are NOT in any sense "SGI mainframes" with their 8 CPU. The ridiculous point I was replying to was that the lab computing division only allowed a vendor and a single "sgi mainframe" to be used. several vendors systems made up the compute farms that processed experimental data, and by the time your linked article was published that included x86 PC farm.

Re:Rose-tinted glasses (1)

RogerWilco (99615) | about 2 years ago | (#38476558)

I've seen plenty of SGI and Cray and VAX iron in the early nineties at the various physics departments when I was an undergrad.

Re:And the web... (1)

RogerWilco (99615) | about 2 years ago | (#38476526)

Particle physics and astronomy are some of the disciplines that have the biggest amount of numbers to crunch.

The limits of what can be done often are major design constraints for the devices being built.

Everyone knows about CERN, but I'm currently working on LOFAR, a low frequency radiotelescope in NW-europe (NL, DE, SE, UK, FR)

Our regular data flow is 200 Gbit/s, we can get up to 10 Tbit/s in burst mode. Even after heavy averaging we write about a Petabyte a week to disk. Most data only is kept for up to 4 weeks, we only archive about 5 Petabytes of end products a year.

It's not Google or one of CERN's big toys, but then it has cost only a fraction of what they spent.

LOFAR is one of the first radiotelescopes to use off the shelve hardware (IBM BlueGene, GPUs, high end linux clusters). Before it, most hardware was custom designed and built DSPs and other custom electronics coupled with very high end tape systems (500+ MB/s to a single tape going at 20 m/s, these things were amazing!).

TRUE inovation will always happen at places ... (4, Insightful)

aix tom (902140) | about 2 years ago | (#38471554)

... where people need something new to fix a problem.

It will never really happen at places where people want to make a quick buck with it.

Re:TRUE inovation will always happen at places ... (2)

Kjella (173770) | about 2 years ago | (#38471794)

TRUE inovation will always happen at places where people need something new to fix a problem. It will never really happen at places where people want to make a quick buck with it.

What about "our customers are leaving us for the competition", is that a problem? Of course they try all sorts of other and sometimes quite innovative ways of keeping the customers too, but sometimes corporations do innovate to make a buck ;)

Re:TRUE inovation will always happen at places ... (2)

LordVader717 (888547) | about 2 years ago | (#38472948)

Your preposition kind of excludes innovation. If competition exists, it implies you are working in an established field and market. True innovations on the other hand create new and unprecedented markets which have yet to be established.

Re:TRUE inovation will always happen at places ... (2)

Bert64 (520050) | about 2 years ago | (#38473344)

More often than not actual innovation will be the last option considered after all others have failed. History has shown that innovative companies often lose out to aggressive and unscrupulous competitors.

Re:TRUE inovation will always happen at places ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#38472090)

... where people need something new to fix a problem.

It will never really happen at places where people want to make a quick buck with it.

There's some truth there, but businessmen can and do innovate, usually in the latter phases of the cycle - they turn a fundamental advances into marketable products backed by financing, R&D, operations, sales, and support that people or companies can buy with some assurance that they won't be stuck with a tchotchke.

Re:TRUE inovation will always happen at places ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#38472360)

What complete and utter horseshit. Yes, innovation happens where people need to fix a problem. It ALSO happens at places where people want to make money. Or are you really fucking stupid enough to claim that companies such as AT&T (Bell Labs), IBM, GE, Motorola, Apple, etc NEVER innovate? You (and the dopes who marked you insightful) really need to pull your collective heads out of your asses.

Re:TRUE inovation will always happen at places ... (2)

Bert64 (520050) | about 2 years ago | (#38473478)

Unfortunately it can often be more profitable to stifle or delay an innovation, and so in a purely profit driven organisation this will be the course of action taken.

How many highly innovative technologies exist behind closed doors because their release would obsolete an older but more profitable technology?

Re:TRUE inovation will always happen at places ... (1)

bws111 (1216812) | about 2 years ago | (#38473950)

There is a world of difference between saying sometimes innovative technologies are held up for business reasons and saying that businesses NEVER innovate. It is obvious to anyone with half a brain that businesses DO in fact innovate. Just look at a smart phone, for instance. Everything from the battery to the display to the touch screen to the manufacturing processes that allow so much function to be packed in such a small space required innovation, most of it done by businesses looking to 'make a buck'.

Re:TRUE inovation will always happen at places ... (2)

SciComGeek (2537574) | about 2 years ago | (#38472546)

I agree that the fact that basic research leads to unexpected spinoff technologies is not generally given sufficient recognition, which your comment seems to imply, aix tom. But don't forget that both the Tevatron and LHC computing architectures are based on the use of cheap commercial technology. Without affordable computing components and later PCs, they could not accomplished all of these other things. It's a symbiosis. Of course, from your comment it isn't clear whether or not you meant to dismiss corporate innovation entirely, or just short-sighted corporate greed. So my apologies if I'm making any wrong assumptions.

Re:TRUE inovation will always happen at places ... (1)

aix tom (902140) | about 2 years ago | (#38473366)

Corporate innovation is of course there. And I definitely only dismiss the short-sighted corporate planning of these days.

When say a hundred, fifty, or even thirty years ago an employee came up with an idea that didn't give short-term profit, but might have been a profitable thing 4-5 years from now, the chances were WAY bigger that a company developed something in that direction.

In the climate today, where everything has to turn a profit in 6-12 month or it isn't tried corporate research can of course make existing technology cheaper and/or better. But it can't really come up with really NEW stuff, because new stuff takes time before it turns a profit.

Red Hat not opens source??? (1)

Shompol (1690084) | about 2 years ago | (#38471694)

Fermi Linux enjoyed limited adoption outside of Fermilab, until 2003, when Red Hat Linux ceased to be open source.

A typo?

Re:Red Hat not opens source??? (1)

SciComGeek (2537574) | about 2 years ago | (#38472420)

Yes. That should have been Red Hat Enterprise Linux. Thanks for catching that -- it's been corrected.

Re:Red Hat not opens source??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#38472544)

RHEL did not 'cease to be open source', it ceased to be free. It is still very much open source.

This is why we need the big projects (5, Informative)

sandytaru (1158959) | about 2 years ago | (#38471754)

I got the mini tour at Lawrence Livermore National Lab a few years back. They've spent about three billion dollars on a proof of concept system for hot fusion. During the project, they invented a process to extrude entire sheets of solid ruby crystals, and hundreds of other innovations. Yes, three billion dollars is a lot of money. The things they had to create will reverberate throughout the private sector for decades, however, and they plan on selling off the final hot fusion plans to private companies who will profit from it once they've got all the kinks worked out.

Re:This is why we need the big projects (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#38472022)

Impossible. Progress can only happen in space.

RAIT (3, Interesting)

Smallpond (221300) | about 2 years ago | (#38471778)

One of the National Labs was using a parallel array of fast tape, I think LTO, to get decent speed (1 GBPS or so) and decent capacity (10TB). Good for recording all the data from one experiment.

Re:RAIT (1)

krlynch (158571) | about 2 years ago | (#38472506)

I worked on a "tiny" particle physics experiment ... in about 4 months of running, we collected 150TB of data. My current experiments will collect PBs of data, and LHC is expected to collect EB of data over its lifetime. 10TB would be considered peanuts these days :-)

Re:RAIT (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#38472868)

I worked in a mid-size experiment in the mid-90's -- we acquired about 2TB of data -- but that's back when the biggest readily available SCSI disk you could buy had just doubled in size to a whopping 18Gb; a big tape would hold maybe 10Gb compressed. Data volumes all depend on data flow capacities.

Two things hold: you will acquire more data faster until you hit a bottleneck then you'll move the bottleneck a few times; AND you will increase the computation being performed on a data set until it is slow -- you pick your tolerance for how long a statistically significant sample should take to analyze then adjust the analysis to fill that time. This holds in particles AND it holds in MR imaging physics where say a new technique gives you 2x the signal per unit time -- a balancing game ensues and some signal is spent in better SNR, some in better spatial resolution and some in shorter scan times. You will expand what you do until it becomes painful in some manner.

Re:RAIT (1)

RogerWilco (99615) | about 2 years ago | (#38476662)

Yeah, there are still some of those high end tape systems in our basement. Used a lot in radioastronomy up until a few years ago. A single tape unit can do 500 Mbit/s, we have 16 I think. 8 Gbit/s to 2 decade old hardware is still impressive. They don't get used much any more. No new recording, only playback of some old data. But when they are running it's impressive, IIRC they do 20 m/s tape speed.

Impossible (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#38471780)

Computers were invented by NASA to get man on the Moon.

Re:Impossible (1)

The Grim Reefer (1162755) | about 2 years ago | (#38471960)

Regardless of your definition of a "the first computer", I'm sure just about anyone can find their own definition of it here. [computerhope.com] And I don't think that definition will be after the work of going to the moon started.

Re:Impossible (2)

mcgrew (92797) | about 2 years ago | (#38472570)

Wrong. The first electronic computer (discounting the secret British one -- if it's secret, for all intents and purposes it doesn't exist) was ENIAC, [wikipedia.org] patented in 1946, a quarter century before Apollo 11 and six years before I was born.

I hope you're still in junior high, because if not your teachers REALLY suck.

Re:Impossible (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#38473412)

Wrong. The first electronic computer (discounting the secret British one -- if it's secret, for all intents and purposes it doesn't exist) was ENIAC, [wikipedia.org] patented in 1946, a quarter century before Apollo 11 and six years before I was born.

I hope you're still in junior high, because if not your teachers REALLY suck.

Wrong, the first programmable computer was Konrad Zuse's Z1 [wikipedia.org], built between 1935 and 1938 (or his Z3, which was the first "Turing complete" computer in 1941). Time to retire, mcgrew :)

Re:Impossible (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#38474254)

That sums up Space Nutters quite nicely. Good to see there are still some rational people on slashdot, and it's not a giant circle jerk of delusional space cadets who ACTUALLY believe what I wrote up there.

Re:Impossible (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#38477528)

It is not enough that you have to turn every topic to space, you have to start faking posts from the people you claim are haunting you. And yet you're the one calling people delusional nutters in a circle jerk.

Re:Impossible (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38479392)

So you believe computers where invented by NASA? Because that's not something I'm making up here. Space Nutters fervently believe it.

Re:Impossible (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38479788)

You keep thinking that, and I'm sure it will help you communicate who is a nutter.

PET/MRI (4, Informative)

sirdude (578412) | about 2 years ago | (#38471844)

In medicine, one of the offshots from CERN & the LHC has been the development/improvement of the MRI scanner [web.cern.ch].

Re:PET/MRI (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#38473854)

That's an interesting, if off-topic comment. This article was about the influence the Tevatron had on computing, not the influence the LHC had on non-computing technology.

In that context, your comment seems to be comparing and contrasting Fermilab contributions to CERN contributions. But MRI technology owes just as much to the Tevatron (See http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/cms/?pid=1000675 [symmetrymagazine.org]). Really, making this a competition between the two labs is silly. The important thing is showing that basic research in particle physics contributed to the development of more practical applications.

The article barely scratches the surface (5, Informative)

stox (131684) | about 2 years ago | (#38471888)

I'll rattle off a half dozen from the top of my head:

According to Robert Young, one of the founders of Red Hat, Fermilab's adoption of Linux was one of the seminal events in the acceptance of Linux as a real operating system.

IBM's SP series of computers was inspired by the IBM RS6000 compute farms at Fermilab.

The original Linux CD driver was written by an experimenter at the DZero group at Fermilab.

Many parallel programming techniques were pioneered on the ACP/MAPS system designed, engineered, and built at Fermilab.

The term "compute farm" was coined at Fermilab.

Fermilab was the world's third web site, after CERN and SLAC.

Re:The article barely scratches the surface (2)

UnknowingFool (672806) | about 2 years ago | (#38472440)

About the website, remember the original purpose of the world wide web wasn't to distribute porn but for researchers like those at CERN and Fermilan to share information. Yes email existed but they needed something more akin to a kiosk to post information to anyone in the world that was interested.

Re:The article barely scratches the surface (1)

lewiscr (3314) | about 2 years ago | (#38475696)

remember the original purpose of the world wide web wasn't to distribute porn

We had usenet for porn. Porn over http didn't really take off until Joe Six Pack got online.

it will be reopend by 2149 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#38472026)

so it's not like that the site will be fully shutdown.

The Software (1)

bloobamator (939353) | about 2 years ago | (#38472186)

Great article. Well written, interesting and informative. Once more we are reminded that It's All About The Software.

And just think (1)

kilodelta (843627) | about 2 years ago | (#38472196)

What the hardware used for LHC is going to spawn. High speed networking, storage arrays, things of that nature are going to be interesting.

Still going on (2)

fermion (181285) | about 2 years ago | (#38472298)

My understanding is the the LHC currently involves a worldwide computing grid capable of distributing on the order of a petabyte of data a month, and doing basic analysis of much more. The thing is that the people who work at such places are highly intelligent problem solvers that are not going to throw out ideas simply because it does not meet some preconceived notion. They are not going to say don't paint the roof white simply because no one has done it before. They have problems to solve, and know how to get the funding to do it.

laypeople? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#38472972)

Few laypeople know what the tevatron is let alone FNAL.

Re:laypeople? (1)

Just Brew It! (636086) | about 2 years ago | (#38473604)

Quite true. But I'd be willing to bet that a significant percentage (if not an outright majority) of /. readers do, so the OP makes sense in context.

I worked there for several years back in the '90s (1)

Just Brew It! (636086) | about 2 years ago | (#38473462)

Best job (all things considered) that I ever had. I got to participate at a pretty deep level in the construction of what was (for a few weeks at least, until it was overtaken by other systems) the fastest supercomputer on the planet; learned a lot about computing in general; and made a number of professional connections that persist to this day (I currently share an office with the same guy I shared an office with when I worked at Fermilab).

So why did I leave, you ask? Multiple reasons: Money (if you were there long enough you tended to fall behind the curve on compensation); glass ceiling (I only have a bachelor's degree); and a division reorg that put me under a total putz of a department head (even the best places to work will have one of these occasionally). Overall, I don't regret leaving; it was the right career move for me at the time. But there are definitely aspects of that job I still miss.

I am bored today ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#38473770)

Anyone remember that old DHL TV add where there is the Euro-ish delivery man leaning against his hand truck thinking to himself, "I am bored today... the bourgeoisie businessmen and their PACKAGES!" I can't find that old AD anywhere on youtube. Anyone know where I can find this old ad. It cracks me up.

NEdit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#38476962)

was a great product that came out of Fermilab, iirc. Unfortunately, it didn't keep pace ... not much demand for a motif (lesstif) editor these days. But for those of us who used Sun or HP desktops, and wanted something prettier (less modal) than emacs ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEdit

Tagged Photon Lab (2)

aitala (111068) | about 2 years ago | (#38477232)

I worked at the Tagged Photon Lab - that's my PhD advisor Don Summers loading tapes into the Great Wall of drives. We drove the poor folks at Exabyte nuts.

Eric Aitala

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