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Teachers Resist High-tech Push In Idaho Schools

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the hold-onto-your-slide-rules dept.

Education 311

First time accepted submitter Jack W writes "This morning's NY Times highlights the issue of learning in our public schools and the proper role of technology. The Idaho governor and his state school superintendent are advocating a legislative bill for a massive infusion of computers and on-line technology in schools and is meeting resistance from state teachers, particularly the part of the bill that requires high school students to take online courses for two of their 47 graduation credits. Superintendent Luna is quoted as saying, the computer 'becomes the textbook for every class, the research device, the advanced math calculator, the word processor and the portal to a world of information.' The article notes that the governor had received campaign contributions from technology companies and that Apple and Intel had played a part in drafting the bill."

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It cuts costs. (0, Troll)

smileygladhands (1909508) | more than 2 years ago | (#38590980)

Just one step closer to firing all the teachers.

And the same questions as always. (5, Insightful)

khasim (1285) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591076)

1. Lost/Stolen devices. Who pays for replacements? Why?

2. Damaged systems that need replacement. Who pays? Why?

3. Virus infections and such. What's the turn-around time on support for those? Will the school have extras to loan while they "clean" the students' machines?

4. Upgrade policy. Will the freshman class have better equipment than the senior class?

And so forth.

Throwing tech at a non-tech problem is stupid. And tech gets old really fast. And tech needs expensive support.

Re:And the same questions as always. (2, Insightful)

viperidaenz (2515578) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591118)

1. Lost/Stolen devices. Who pays for replacements? Why?

Irrelevant. Apple/Intel get paid for it

2. Damaged systems that need replacement. Who pays? Why?

irrelevant. Apple/Intel get paid for it

Re:And the same questions as always. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38591126)

1. Lost/Stolen devices. Who pays for replacements? Why?

Insured by the owner, obviously.

2. Damaged systems that need replacement. Who pays? Why?

Insured by the owner, obviously.

3. Virus infections and such. What's the turn-around time on support for those?

Probably quite small, re-image and you're done. Data would be stored in datacenters so no loss of data just because a device is lost, damaged, etc...

Will the school have extras to loan while they "clean" the students' machines?

Re-image is quick.

4. Upgrade policy. Will the freshman class have better equipment than the senior class?

It would cycle as tech becomes obsolete and new tech replaces it.

Let's Not Forget... (1)

Niscenus (267969) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591366)

It remains more or less the same as with books, lab equipment and classroom resources. Why does everyone expect something new when there's no real management and processing difference in what type of resource has been compared.

Re:Let's Not Forget... (1)

History's Coming To (1059484) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591484)

Ah, the fun they had! (Bonus points if you get the reference!)

Computers are handy for learning and teaching yourself, and there's a increasing amount of really good educational stuff available for free online, but it's technology working in tandem, not against. There's even an interesting program on the go where retired folk in the UK are volunteering to help English language students in Africa via Skype. It's changing the way teachers work, but it's not going to replace them.

Re:And the same questions as always. (5, Insightful)

digsbo (1292334) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591130)

You left out the big question that most school districts also forget: How will they go about buying technology to get the results they want? Most, if not all, of the school system officials making purchasing decisions have near zero experience purchasing technology solutions. They fall for a sales pitch, a low bid, and/or a bribe, and then blame the people below them when things don't work out.

Re:And the same questions as always. (2)

todrules (882424) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591356)

At least the students would get a crash course in how the real world works, and they would see what they would have to do when they get that MBA.

That's the big problem. (3, Insightful)

raehl (609729) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591470)

"We need more computers in the classroom!"

OK, what are you going to do with them?

The school district I grew up in (in yuppieville) has decided that every student should have a tablet computer.

My response was, why?

There is virtually nothing a tablet computer is going to do that can't be done with some combination of pen, paper, and an overhead. And in most cases, the pen/paper/overhead is going to be more effective.

I'm actually surprised the teachers are opposed - in my old district it's the teachers pushing the technology buy. Then again, most of the teachers there kinda stink.

Re:That's the big problem. (4, Insightful)

benjamindees (441808) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591546)

Tablets can enable more interactive teaching among a large group of students, rather than just a few. With access to the right software, the better teachers will make perfectly good use of them.

Re:That's the big problem. (4, Insightful)

ArcherB (796902) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591596)

There is virtually nothing a tablet computer is going to do that can't be done with some combination of pen, paper, and an overhead

Well, copy and paste for one. Send in homework from anywhere at any time. Get feedback from anywhere/any time. Ask questions anywhere/any time. I could go on, but you get the idea.

As for your comment, you could say the same thing about the ball point pen vs quill and ink. "There is virtually nothing a ball point pen is going to do that can't be done with some combination of ink, quill, and a candle."

I'm not saying that this tablet thing is a good idea, and I certainly agree that kids should learn to research and write the old fashioned way, but don't eliminate technology because the old way is "good enough". Kids should know how to use a calculator, but they should also know how to do long division with pencil and paper. Kids should be able to count back change when the register breaks. But that doesn't mean you should ban the calculator and the register. You teach both.

Sorry, I'll get off your lawn now.

Re:That's the big problem. (4, Informative)

dreamchaser (49529) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591600)

If you'd read the article (I know, I know. No I'm not new here) you'd have seen that the teachers are opposed to it because the State is diverting funds from salaries to pay for it.

Re:And the same questions as always. (3, Interesting)

Ayanami_R (1725178) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591140)

1 and 2, the taxpayer, no doubt. Because we pay 50 dollars a box to set them up (which central IT can do ourselves, but don't because then we don't get the warranty benefits, don't worry we're fixing that.) and then pay for "extended accidental protection", to the tune of another 110 per box. The hardware vendor makes out great, the taxpayer gets screwed.

3. in the school system I work for, about 3 days, because they refuse to properly staff support.

4. Upgrades only come after we have spent the cost of a new machine supporting the old ones, so about every 8 to 10 years or so, again this is based on the school system for which I work. Schools get told to upgrade, blow the money on other unnecessary things, then cry to us when their 8 year old machine isn't fast enough to even load our minimal image to it. We have some schools sitting on P3 machines because the principals wasted all the tech money for the last 12 years on other crap, and then have the nerve to DEMAND that central IT "get them something"

Chromebooks, fool. (1)

earls (1367951) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591154)

Well, if you deploy Chromebooks, the answers are easy:

1. Google. You're on a service contract.
2. Google. You're on a service contract.
3. Don't exist.
4. Every three years. No.

Throwing tech at this problem sure solved it. Google Chromebooks for Education (hardware and support) are extremely well priced in my opinion.

Pure FUD, Negative Nancy. Now, please rail on now about how worthless Chromebooks are and kids can't possibly get an decent education with just the Internet.

Re:Chromebooks, fool. (4, Insightful)

Obfuscant (592200) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591226)

Now, please rail on now about how worthless Chromebooks are and kids can't possibly get an decent education with just the Internet.

Well, ok. With "just the Internet", how does a child learn to identify and prioritize information he receives from the Internet?

You have to have some place to start. Throwing a kid onto the internet and saying "learn it for yourself" isn't a productive way to teach kids anything. How do you counteract the damage if the first website they come across teaches them that 2+2=6 or something equally wrong? How do they realize there is a foundation for all of the advanced topics they will come across, and better yet, which foundations are relevant?

Re:Chromebooks, fool. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38591386)

How do you counteract the fact TEACHERS routinely spout off inaccurate information? I'd take the Internet over the educational system any day.

Re:Chromebooks, fool. (0)

earls (1367951) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591408)

Throwing a kid onto the internet and saying "learn it for yourself"

No-one is even suggesting that. That's the point of the teachers! To lead the class. Great non-issue.

Re:Chromebooks, fool. (1)

Obfuscant (592200) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591554)

No-one is even suggesting that. That's the point of the teachers! To lead the class.

Then when you said "just the internet", you didn't mean "just the internet", did you? What you wrote suggested that very thing. "Teachers and internet" is not the same as "just the internet", at least not in the language dejure.

Re:Chromebooks, fool. (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591434)

I think parent meant "Just the Internet" because Chromebooks don't have native applications (only web access), I don't think he was saying Chromebooks are a replacement for teachers.

Re:Chromebooks, fool. (1)

kesuki (321456) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591490)

it's like the twilight zone episode where they 'homeschool' a girl trying to develop mental telepathy from moving images from pieces of paper. then the 'real' teacher teaches the girl to speak with her lips by having the students all 'think' the same thought at her...

when i was learning about computers there was a lot of disinformation. i kept finding uses for computers and people kept telling me stupid things about computers. i have yet to find a genuine source of real information, that doesn't hype things. scam people, or otherwise propagate only truth. mainly i see people trying to inhibit the learning curve, people deliberately lying, or people desperately seeking money from disinformation.

personally i fight hard against the disinformation, i don't like it when people suck up to me, and i hate people judging me for having thoughts when i have a pretty good grip on what actions i take based off the information inside my mind. even if most of the thoughts in my mind is gibberish. even if it means i no longer do what people think i am supposed to do. i read. i think. i remember. for me that is all i need to do to feel like i am at least informed and not just a number.

Re:And the same questions as always. (2)

fermion (181285) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591272)

These are points that many are not aware of. Kids, being kids, will damage or steal the computer. In my experience, the loss and damage control is not sufficient and teachers are often blamed for the loss. Systems such as tags that set off an alarm when the laptops leave the room, cable locks, and the like are not budgeted into the cost of the system.

If one is using computers for class, then the computers have to be reliable and the turn around time for repairs has to be short. This is not true at most schools. In my experience, a single dedicated person might be responsible for basic support of 500 machines, with roaming support for other issues. It can be a week to get a computer up and running. For computers that are not critical this is fine, but we are talking about make the machines mission critical.

One way to fix this is to train teachers to do simple maintenance. Much can be done if a teacher was allowed to customize the state of the machine and then given an image that can be use to restore a machine to the known state. In most cases students don't need to store data on a machine, and something like cleanslate, while useful, is a resource hog. Teachers also need to be given control of blacklists and whitelists for their classroom. One reason the computer classroom is going to fail is because teachers are not allowed to manage resources.

The last point is one valid complaint against teachers. Computers, or any equipment, allocated in terms of seniority never makes sense. The executive who types memos in word does not need a superior computer to an entry level developer. The executive may get it because of a hissy fit, but it is not necessary. Likewise I know cases where the freshman class requires superior computers to many upper level classes due to the work they do. Some senior classes may require better equipment, but many can do well on the hand me downs of the freshman class. Sure they may whine, but it is good for them to learn that need outweighs personal hissy fits if one is going to be rational, something I think we should teach.

Re:And the same questions as always. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38591494)

These questions are simple if you've been involved in this:
1. Lost/stolen - yes, the state will pay but insurance will cover part or most. Tracking software is inexpensive and keeps laptops from walking off.
2. Same for damaged systems - though I can tell you working with Dell has been much easier than with Apple on this same issue. Love the latter but they are a pain when it comes to lease/purchase programs and repairs.
3. Of course you have extras available - and its a nightmare trying to estimate how many you need (I have to do this every summer for the coming academic year)
4. Obviously, freshman end up with better stuff. That's technology, that's life. The kids don't necessarily like it, but they accept it. Bigger issue is what you do with students transferring in - do they get the latest or some hand-me-down from someone who transferred out?

Actually, the technology doesn't need expensive support. Distribution is a pain and cost money. But at our institution, tech staff are now certified Dell techs and we actually make money off of repairs. The more they break it, the more we make - so its a management and facility headache, but not a major cost issue.

The real issue here is instructional support: who is supporting the teachers? How are they going to use it? Just dropping this stuff into the classroom is ridiculous as kids will just Facebook all the time and it will get in the way - as some comments have noted - of good teaching. I'm all for this, but it has to be done right. The first thing would be to have teachers train for a year before you even begin distributing this stuff to students. But unfortunately, I'm sure the potential will be lost. I've "been there, done that" on the higher ed level and seen instances of great success and staggering failure. It's not about the technology, it's how it will (or will not) be used.

Re:And the same questions as always. (2)

GoodNewsJimDotCom (2244874) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591500)

Since textbooks cost about 10,000$ for k-12, you can get about 100 computer replacements before you go into the red. Since books also get destroyed, the problem is already something schools face.

Re:And the same questions as always. (0, Flamebait)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591576)

Throwing tech at a non-tech problem is stupid.

Worse than just stupid. Technology in the classroom will end up being a method of laundering tax money for corporations. Who among you thinks that the people who believe it's a good thing to have fewer teachers is going to make sure that our kids don't all end up going to the K-12 version of the University of Phoenix? For making sure that we don't end up with a nation of kids who got the equivalent of high-tech homeschooling?

Before you start (and you know who you are), there are examples of kids being home-schooled and turning out great. They are the exception. Think about the 150,000 or so Iowans who voted in last night's GOP caucus. "Salt-of-the-Earth" we are told. "Real Americans". Now think about them being solely responsible for their kids education. Let's take a ride to the Wal-Mart in suburban Sioux City. Let's look around at the people walking the aisles. Now tell me that the best thing we can do for their kids isn't to get them out of the house for six hours every day to give them at least a fighting chance.

One reason we have lots of teachers is that it lessens the possibility of kids only getting one teacher and having that teacher suck. If a state goes to "online classes" then the kids who take those online classes will be getting the same teacher. Those online classes will be a commercial product. Let's go back to Wal-Mart and have a look at the products on the shelves. Let's evaluate them for their quality. Do you really want to have the same corporate mentality that sells Americans the cheapest, flimsiest shit possible in order to maximize shareholder value be the ones in charge of producing educational materials for kids?

Use technology in education, by all means. Depend on technology? No thank you. The fact that the people of Utah don't like paying taxes is no reason to make their kids suffer. They don't know any better (the citizens of Utah, I mean).

An even better question to ask... (4, Insightful)

Pollux (102520) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591628)

Superintendent Luna is quoted as saying, the computer 'becomes the textbook for every class, the research device, the advanced math calculator, the word processor and the portal to a world of information.'

Here's the only question that matters: What research-based evidence supports this view that a computer is a better and more effective medium for accessing this information than the present status quo of books, the library, the handheld calculator, and a desktop computer?

Because, to put it in terms of business, if there isn't a decent Return-On-Investment with buying all this tech, than no citizen or politician should put money up to invest.

Re:And the same questions as always. (1)

Skyshroudelf (2031210) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591634)

1. Although it was only a quick Google search I found several companies that offer laptop insurance, this would be the best way to protect from this.

2. Manufactures Warranty, this is a no brainier and full gold support would be built into the cost like any other business class laptop.

3. Deep Freeze or similar software, my school used this on desktops even. When the computer restarts it sets it back to default settings so nothing can change settings, except a storage area for files, and these could be synced while in the school building for backup.

4. Yes, it is just how it is, do a 4 year lease on the computers so when they graduate they return them. Failing students may need to get new ones but that I would think would be the exception rather then the rule.

Also withhold the diploma of any student that does not return the device, that way you get them back.

Re:And the same questions as always. (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591636)

While I agree with all of your points the flipside is frankly kids simply aren't learning the skills at home they require and learning computer skills is a BIG requirement for getting anywhere anymore. you just don't realize how computer illiterate someone can be until you try teaching an adult that has never used them how to operate a computer and use the web safely. i have a neighbor downstairs that is 57 years old and had NEVER touched a keyboard! I've taken him under my wing and thanks to his boss being a really decent guy he gave me a couple of office lease P4s from their shop (one for me to keep in return for setting the other up for him and teaching him the basics) I'm slowly but surely making progress but when you are dealing with someone who simply hasn't ever used one its almost like learning a completely new language. i'm literally having to start with "This is the on switch, this is a file" because he simply has zero frame of reference.

Now compare that to my oldest who is now a sophomore at the local college. On the first day of class they give the kids a PC skills test to see how many were gonna need remedial classes to learn how to research, take their online courses, etc and it took him maybe 3 minutes before the teacher told him to stop and said "Who taught you? Because its obvious you won't be needing any kind of help in this area." and he later told me he said "My uncle had a mouse in my hand practically from the time i could walk" so now he is earning some extra credits helping out as a TA on their remedial computer skills class.

The computer really is an essential tool to get anywhere in life anymore but you'd be surprised how many young people are getting little to no hands on training at what is such an important skill. you'd think with tech being so cheap every kid would be at home learning this stuff but when my boys were in HS they were practically the only kids with PCs at home, the rest had game consoles. But unless you want a job that has "you want fries with that?" as part of your daily routine you NEED these skills and sadly too many kids come home to a console baby sitter and parents that don't care as long as little Suzy ain't bugging them. Personally i think one quarter of the classes kids take in the 4 years of HS ought to be "life skills" where they teach them everything from computer skills to budgeting to how to watch over your 401k because the world isn't getting any simpler folks and the kids just aren't getting these things at home.

Re:It cuts costs. (1)

bfandreas (603438) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591310)

Well, technology does not substitute education.
That being said, being tech savvy and knowing how to conduct yourself is part of literacy in our modern world and that is best adressed at school.
I'm not a huge fan of online-courses as those tend to be nothing more than glorified interactive text books. Those do indeed not substitue a proper teacher/pupil discourse. But they can like text books supplement them
Technology is a tool and as with every job you pick the right tools to get it done. At no point in the fine article does it say how those professional politicians plan on employing technology beyond online courses. I'm with the pedagogues here. Butch Otter is a political scientist and a business man and has no experience whatsoever in teaching. Initiatives like these usually end up with shoving lots of money down the throat of Apple, Microsoft and Dell and are usually born on golf courses.

Also you don't cut costs when it comes to education. If you don't want to ensure proper education of your kids then it may not be the hassle of having this nation thing going on, now is it?

Re:It cuts costs. (2)

CrimsonAvenger (580665) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591444)

Also you don't cut costs when it comes to education.

Why not?

Are you trying to suggest that all money spent on education is wisely spent, producing useful results and better educations? If not, then it's just possible that some of the money is spent foolishly, and could be cut without doing damage to the education delivered.

Note that many western countries spend less on education than we do, for better results. If they can do it on less, why is it impossible to cut costs on our education system?

Re:It cuts costs. (1)

bfandreas (603438) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591548)

Well, you want better results so work on how the money is spent. Simply slashing funding until the price tag fits the sub par performance of the US educational system hardly fixes that particular problem.

The goal should be to improve what is going wrong instead of making what goes wrong slightly more efficient. Simply claiming to have online courses and laptops achieves these goals does not make it true.
God nows the US hardly builds anything anymore(since that's now done in India, China, god knows where) and the only thing that truly keeps it afloat is knowledge.

TL;DR: need maek better lrrning kidz how to smartmaking.

Re:It cuts costs. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38591468)

Excellent. Use this to start breaking the teacher's unions and reduce the ridiculous public pension system.

Near Chicago, the property taxes necessary to support this system are out of sight. The democrats have manipulated the system to cement the relationship of support between themselves and the public employee's unions. Dems get the teachers fat salaries and sweet benefits and pensions, teacher's union funds the democrats' campaigns and supplies astro-turf type support on the picket lines when needed. Parents got to work, and don't like to see disruption with daycare, so this shit continues.

The citizens of Illinois are paying many of these people 75k and up annually in retirement - this is a poor use of the taxpayer's money. Knock out all this over-abundance and get 'em on a 401k and paying more for their healthcare and the property taxes could be reduced by more than half.

I got fed up paying large sums of money to the dem leeches and their dependents.

I moved and reduced my taxes tenfold and improved the view as well as my liberty.

Now, with the downturn, people trying to leave Chicago area can't hardly sell, and if they do it's probably at an unattractive price - while at the same time, Chicago and the suburbs are STILL raising property taxes to pay for these parasites.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2010/11/15/angry-homeowners-protest-latest-property-tax-bills/

I hope this is the beginning of this corrupt system being dismantled.

Simple solution (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38590994)

Any teacher who resists the introduction of technology to the classroom needs to be fired and lose all retirement benefits. How this is controversial at all is simply beyond me. ...and we wonder why our educational system is a joke.

Re:Simple solution (4, Insightful)

mbkennel (97636) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591034)

If you think a little bit...... maybe the teachers are right about things?

Some common idea + "on the internet" doens't make a good patent.

Some same teaching + "on technology" doesn't make for good education.

All high school students know what a computer is and are hardly in awe of the 'portal to the world of information' any more than they are in awe of a telephone.

Doing something useful with it is the key---or spending the same money on something else which may give more value.

Teachers may, with good reason, believe that they will now be forced to use some odd creaky technology (edu-software is like that) without any decent level of tech support after the first year, and they'll waste all sorts of time on powerpoint nonsense instead of getting on with it.

Thinking.... nope, you are wrong. (2)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591110)

If you think a little bit...... maybe the teachers are right about things?

About all things? I'm pretty sure not.

Some common idea + "on the internet" doens't make a good patent.

But EDUCATION + Internet = GREAT IDEA.

The fact is this. We live in a world where there is an amazing ability to learn almost anything online.

So why not teach kids, as early as possible to be able to take advantage of this amazing resource to learn when and where they want?

Something that can't go on forever will not, and the upward spiraling costs for downward spiraling benefits of a college education mean those that can truly learn online and make the best use of technology have a huge advantage - they could either go to a smaller cheaper school and supplement learning with technology, or skip college altogether and go a self-directed path.

All high school students know what a computer is

Well I can see you grew up rather privileged.

Doing something useful with it is the key---or spending the same money on something else which may give more value.

Like what? There is literally nothing more valuable to teach students now, because it is a meta-teaching.

Even if the actual execution is not that great (and with the public school system you can be sure it will not be) the very fact some of the courses are online will get more students to realizing they can learn from the internet.

Re:Thinking.... nope, you are wrong. (2)

Obfuscant (592200) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591172)

The fact is this. We live in a world where there is an amazing ability to learn almost anything online.

No. There is an amazing ability to find information online, but learning requires evaluation and incorporation of correct information.

I.e., not all Internet information is factual, and not all of it is correct. Learning cannot truly take place in an environment where facts are not and opinions masquerade as such.

I'll also point out that "learning on the internet" is not the same as "must take two online learning courses to graduate". The latter is a mandate that is not appropriate for the Governor to push.

Re:Thinking.... nope, you are wrong. (0)

Beardo the Bearded (321478) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591228)

My wife is the sys admin for the distance education department of a local college, so I'm getting a kick out of your replies.

Re:Thinking.... nope, you are wrong. (1)

Obfuscant (592200) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591394)

My wife is the sys admin for the distance education department of a local college, so I'm getting a kick out of your replies.

Since you didn't bother to add any content to the discussion, I'll assume your "kick" is that you think I'm wrong.

If your wife's "distance education department" consists of nothing but pointing students to the Internet, then I pity the students. I suspect that the department consists of people who create and identify the content the students should be using, not simply saying "google for the answers to the following exam questions", and probably some number of live resources to answer questions, whether in person or electronically. That's significantly different than "just the internet". In fact, the distance learning department may use the Internet as a medium to disseminate the distance learning, but it need not be the only medium. There was "distance learning" prior to the Internet, you know.

Re:Thinking.... nope, you are wrong. (1)

exomondo (1725132) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591338)

No. There is an amazing ability to find information online, but learning requires evaluation and incorporation of correct information.

So you evaluate and take your information from a reputable source, you know, like you do in all aspects of life. You don't just trust what anyone tells you and that includes teachers, because they aren't always going to be correct.

Re:Thinking.... nope, you are wrong. (1)

Obfuscant (592200) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591466)

So you evaluate and take your information from a reputable source, you know, like you do in all aspects of life.

You've just pushed the problem down one level on the stack. How do you teach students to identify reputable sources if you just throw them at the internet and let them figure it out for themselves?

You don't just trust what anyone tells you and that includes teachers, because they aren't always going to be correct.

No, they won't always be correct, and only a fool would think they would be -- or that I made any claim similar to that. At least there is a vetting process that takes place and someone is responsible, whether it is the local school board or superintendent or principle, or the state organization that vets textbooks. It's not just "hope" and "maybe" the students won't wander into a site with ridiculous "facts" that they have no way of vetting themselves.

Re:Thinking.... nope, you are wrong. (1)

exomondo (1725132) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591512)

You've just pushed the problem down one level on the stack. How do you teach students to identify reputable sources if you just throw them at the internet and let them figure it out for themselves?

No-one is suggesting you just throw them at the internet and let them figure it out for themselves, you're just trying to create FUD with rubbish comments like that.

No, they won't always be correct, and only a fool would think they would be -- or that I made any claim similar to that. At least there is a vetting process that takes place and someone is responsible, whether it is the local school board or superintendent or principle, or the state organization that vets textbooks. It's not just "hope" and "maybe" the students won't wander into a site with ridiculous "facts" that they have no way of vetting themselves.

And no-one is suggesting that you would eliminate teachers or textbooks (since they would be in digital form) and rely solely on kids just using the internet, so your point is completely irrelevant anyway.

Re:Thinking.... nope, you are wrong. (1)

todrules (882424) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591422)

I'll also point out that "learning on the internet" is not the same as "must take two online learning courses to graduate". The latter is a mandate that is not appropriate for the Governor to push.

True. However, I do have to say that with the proliferation of online courses in college that this would give high school students the exposure to taking online courses and help prepare them for college. It's easy to blow off online courses and procrastinate when you don't have to go in to a class every day. Hopefully, they'll learn these lessons early.

Re:Thinking.... nope, you are wrong. (1)

Obfuscant (592200) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591506)

I do have to say that with the proliferation of online courses in college that this would give high school students the exposure to taking online courses and help prepare them for college.

That is the one valuable thing I see from having online courses available to high school students -- teaching them how to take an online course. I doubt that the mandate is based on that idea, and without the support available to college students who take online courses (TAs, help desks, etc) it is questionable whether many of the high school students will find the experience anything other than frustrating.

It's easy to blow off online courses and procrastinate when you don't have to go in to a class every day. Hopefully, they'll learn these lessons early.

It sounds like you think high school students need instruction on how to skip classes. Perhaps you meant to word that along the lines of "it will help them learn time management"?

Re:Thinking.... (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38591206)

You're making a fundamentally flawed assumption ... that the problem with education has anything to do with learning or teaching. It just doesn't. The problem with the education system today, as much as the idiots whine about not enough money,and the other idiots whine about, whatever the idiot republicans claim the problem is, that parents refuse to be responsible for their children. I can't teach your little shit anything if you don't teach them to shut up, listen, obey, or care about learning. Everyone would be better off we we let your little felon drop out, but WIC pays you to make sure he shows up and causes problems at school.

Re:Thinking.... nope, you are wrong. (1)

pclminion (145572) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591220)

So why not teach kids, as early as possible to be able to take advantage of this amazing resource to learn when and where they want?

Are you freaking kidding me? Kids already understand how to use the Internet better than most adults. They also know a bunch of stuff they don't want you to know they know, and more. My four year old knows how to open a browser and go to his favorite web sites. They don't need this sort of help. They probably think the way YOU use the Internet is archaic, stupid, and uncreative.

Well I can see you grew up rather privileged.

There might be some small segment of kids who never used a computer, though I find that hard to believe. So educate those kids. No need for billion dollar programs that the vast majority will find completely pointless.

Re:Simple solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38591410)

Another sizable part of the resistence is even more simple than that: I've found giving my students access to technology in the classroom (particularly networked devices of any kind) is only rarely beneficial. Most of the time, it just gives my students a thousand more interesting things to do than listen to me, or do their actual work.

Re:Simple solution (0)

pavon (30274) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591040)

How this is controversial at all is simply beyond me

I agree, this shouldn't be controversial at all. Throwing money on expensive gadgets that do nothing to improve the educational process is a complete waste of money, and any administrator who suggests it should be fired on the spot and loose all retirement benefits.

Re:Simple solution (2)

exomondo (1725132) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591196)

Throwing money on expensive gadgets that do nothing to improve the educational process is a complete waste of money

Making it far easier to access up-to-date information is great for the education process. You'll never replace teachers but technology like this is clearly advantageous. What is it specifically you're opposed to?

Re:Simple solution (1)

Obfuscant (592200) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591264)

What is it specifically you're opposed to?

1. Unfunded mandates from higher levels of government.

2. Mandated online classes as a high school graduation requirement.

Re:Simple solution (1)

exomondo (1725132) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591364)

1. Unfunded mandates from higher levels of government.

Unfunded mandates from higher levels of government occur in almost all aspects of life, the government isn't expected to fund every mandate they make.

2. Mandated online classes as a high school graduation requirement.

What's wrong with having high school students take classes in a form that is becoming ever more common in post-high school life?

Re:Simple solution (1)

Obfuscant (592200) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591532)

Unfunded mandates from higher levels of government occur in almost all aspects of life, the government isn't expected to fund every mandate they make.

"It happens" and "it's a good thing" are two different concepts. And not expecting the government at the state level to fund something that they demand the local schools do is one of the "it happens" things, not one of the "it's a good things".

What's wrong with having high school students take classes in a form that is becoming ever more common in post-high school life?

Nothing is wrong with allowing them to take approved online courses. Did you miss the word "mandate"?

Re:Simple solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38591524)

What is it specifically you're opposed to?

Access to information is the opposite learning.

I've had lots of [university] students who were very skilled at looking up answers online. On the other hand, if you asked questions like "why is this so?" or "does this make sense?" they were at a complete loss because these questions require going beyond mere facts and actually knowing something about the subject matter.

People forcing computers into the classroom in the name of "education" don't seem to grasp the difference either.

Re:Simple solution (4, Insightful)

obarthelemy (160321) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591052)

Wrong. Any teacher that fails to teach must be fired. I'm fairly sure some teachers can teach very well without computers/calculators/projectors/...

Don't mistake the tools for the end result.

Re:Simple solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38591086)

Preparing kids for today's job climate without basic computer literacy is a joke and a disservice to our children.

Re:Simple solution (2)

Stewie241 (1035724) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591132)

And I'm sure that basic computer literacy is the biggest shortcoming of students that our education systems are pumping out today.

Re:Simple solution (1)

viperidaenz (2515578) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591152)

School is supposed to be about teaching our children how to learn for themselves, not moulding them into todays job climate.

Re:Simple solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38591350)

Not true. I am a systems architect and developer. Before that, I was an engineer who did CADD/CAE/CAM and then managed people who did the same. There were no computers in my grade school, no computer courses in high school. For my degree in engineering physics, most of my work was done with pencil and paper though some project were done on computer (by my choice). It is nonsense to claim that "computer literacy" (especially incarnated as the farce it usually is in schools) is required to be taught in schools. Instead, we need literacy, mathematics, and speaking to be taught. I'd prefer not a single computer to be part of any required course in grade or high school.

Re:Simple solution (2)

Michael Woodhams (112247) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591580)

But it does not follow from this that this proposed spending will efficiently remedy a lack of computer literacy in the students. That requires that students lack computer literacy now, that the spending will fix this, and that it will do so at reasonable cost.
    I'm too removed from this situation to make a judgement, but the views of the teachers deserve careful consideration.

is your solution just looking for a problem (4, Insightful)

OrangeTide (124937) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591166)

there has been no established correlation between technology in schools and improved academic performance.

I think anyone who wastes money on shoving technology into schools should be fired. Yet I have a vested interest in it being otherwise (I make ebook readers and tablet computers).

there are strong correlations between economic affluence of the community (i.e. rich folks) and performance in schools. I'm not sure how that can be used to improve our schools, but better than some imaginary assumed linked between technology and success.

The other big waste is text books, why would low-level courses need new text books every 3-5 years. I would rather we spent the money on creating open licensed text books than on a nearly disposable laptop or tablet that becomes worn out or obsolete in 2 years. (I said "the money" as if schools have any just laying around. HA!)

Teachers need to catch up to the 21st Century (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38590996)

Teachers will resist the changes because they are stuck in the dark ages. They see their role as being the complete masters of education, with no-one else having a say. You think I'm kidding, I work as a technology person in a school.

Non-profit are always subsidized (1)

lucm (889690) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591004)

What is new? Not so long ago Microsoft and Red Hat fought hard on that kind of thing.

But it's not always that bad. Just look at the Gacaca project in Rwanda, Microsoft spent a lot of money to showcase .Net and this allowed a better funding. Could this have been done (better) with another technology? Probably, but a bill had to be paid and expecting companies to do charity is not a prudent gamble.

Pointless (3, Insightful)

Antony T Curtis (89990) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591006)

The pointless application of technology just for the simple sake of technology seems a waste.

Now, a subject course where students have to buy and learn to program a $25 computer, no more expensive than a typical textbook, that would be a worthwhile application of technology in schools.

*sighs*

Re:Pointless (1)

andydread (758754) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591250)

Yes but given that in this specific case Apple and Intel are behind this I don't think they are going to be learning to program anything let alone program on anything that cost $25. Just sayin'.... When administrators rely on big corporations to write a bill the corporations run the show. In this case they relied on these corporations for the "Technical Advice" in drafting the bill they will rely on them for the "Technical Advice" when deployment comes. That is how these things have always worked. I don't see that changing any time soon. So $25 computer is out of the question. Think $499 iPads for text books purchased through iTunes

Re:Pointless (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38591260)

Your work astroturfing for Raspberry Pi has been duly noted. You only have 5,000 more posts to go to meet your daily quota. Carry on "free thinking independent" bot!

Re:Pointless (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38591296)

What textbooks are $25? That sounds cheap...

Re:Pointless (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38591462)

Strange, when I was still in high school back in 1985 we programmed on IBM PCs that cost about $3000 at the time. Adjusted for inflation that's about $6000 in today's dollars. That didn't stop us from having access to computers. So why is a $25 price point so magical now?

Onerous Regulation to Enrich Private Interests (5, Insightful)

mathmathrevolution (813581) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591022)

Some students and some classes could and should be taught online. However, these decisions need to be made by school districts, parents, and students. The governor shouldn't be placing a huge unfunded mandate on local schools just because Apple cut him a check.

Re:Onerous Regulation to Enrich Private Interests (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591156)

Some students and some classes could and should be taught online. However, these decisions need to be made by school districts, parents, and students. The governor shouldn't be placing a huge unfunded mandate on local schools just because Apple cut him a check.

Online teaching works for students with an aptitude for it. I can succeed wonderfully -- but for that group.

Having computers in a classroom requires having the need and plan in place, before actually acquiring the technology, otherwise it's a distraction.

Re:Onerous Regulation to Enrich Private Interests (1)

Mia'cova (691309) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591304)

Can you please cite which groups of people can't learn from it? The studies I've seen on tech-based teaching has never identified certain groups students doing worse while others do better. Is this simply your intuition?

Re:Onerous Regulation to Enrich Private Interests (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38591486)

http://parentables.howstuffworks.com/family-matters/silicon-valley-execs-send-their-children-tech-free-schools-and-s-ok.html

Tech for the sake of tech. (5, Insightful)

digsbo (1292334) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591038)

The quality of education is not a result of the amount spent on technology. It is almost pointless to fight it, though, because these decisions are made for political reasons in a vacuum of real debate, metrics, or general considerations about what gets the best results. On some level the teachers have a right to resist this, as it's a further encroachment on their autonomy and freedom to teach as they prefer. On the other hand, if teacher unions did not fight every attempt to rationally measure student success, they might get a seat at the table discussing how to handle certain kinds of problems.

unfair society (1)

OrangeTide (124937) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591182)

Our children get the education that we deserved. Not really fair but that's the way it is.

Re:Tech for the sake of tech. (1)

marcosdumay (620877) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591328)

That insight is quite a bit more general than what you state. The quality of anything is not a result of the amount you spend on it.

That is just more accentuated on governments, but is a general truth.

computers in the classroom don't help? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38591054)

Wasn't there some research recently that computers in the classroom are not correlated with better academic outcomes?

I think it even got mentioned in a slashdot article some time back.

needs a non-crappy ecosystem (5, Insightful)

Trepidity (597) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591100)

The first major push for computers in schools had more than just some computers. In addition to putting the Apple IIs (usually) into school computer labs, there were also initiatives like MECC [wikipedia.org] to produce useful software for them, research from educators like Seymour Papert [wikipedia.org] on how to use them to teach technical skills, etc.

By the late 80s this had mostly withered away, so that when my own high school in the 1990s replaced its Apple IIs with Macintosh LCs, the main thing they were used for besides word processing was... running the old Apple II software on the IIe attachment card [wikipedia.org] .

Re:needs a non-crappy ecosystem (1)

bussdriver (620565) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591288)

Mod parent up.

Seymour Papert used computers as a TOOL along with legos to promote THINKING and his approach translated into other topics that didn't use technology. The quality MECC software didn't need newer technology to fulfill its job; some lesser software like the pointless Oregon Trail was really a video game and could benefit from upgrades; sadly it continues having not made any constructive progress. (the WWW helping reading is just a by product.)

Technology is NOT needed in K-12 at all. Its just a popular excuse to avoid solving the difficult issues involved. It can help in limited ways only; just as calculators are overused and are doing harm in many classrooms.

What do they want to teach with?!? (0)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591138)

Potatoes?

  • Starch 101
  • 'Eye' Appeal 221
  • Bake or Fry 111
  • Spuds, Taters and other slang 210
  • Drop-kicking Potato Bugs 183
  • Methodology of Peeling 104
  • Proper Selection of Toppings 311

The best hi-tech device (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38591150)

is your brain. Once you learn to use that you might add a decent calculator.

if they are like the recent ed grads I've known (2)

Locutus (9039) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591162)

then they are pretty much computer illiterate. Sure they can use Microsoft Word but would be stupefied if LibreOffice or Google Docs were put before them. They memorized what menus to click through but not the concepts of the tasks so it is no surprise the educators in Idaho would oppose more use of technology if they were anything like here. They would be unable to use the technology to teach the kids. And "here" is in one of the top 20 largest cities in America.

LoB

In Soviet Russia (0)

Roachie (2180772) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591170)

Technology push YOU!

Re:In Soviet Russia (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38591358)

We love you roachie. A+ on effort

shIt! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38591178)

This is a non-story (0)

Okian Warrior (537106) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591184)

This is a non-story. Traditional mass-produced education is going the way of the dodo, buggy-whip manufacturers, and RIAA.

With Kahn academy and various universities putting their courses on the net, a complete education is currently online. It's not yet super-charged with goodness, but right now it's entirely possible for anyone to get a complete online education up to and including the graduate level. (viz: the Standord online courses [ml-class.org] )

Kids are voracious learners. Give them the right materials and they will figure it out on their own, at their own speed, and in a sequence that makes sense to them.

We are rapidly reaching the point of not needing teachers. Certainly, the typical role of teacher as one who makes the kids sit quietly and watch a boring lecture are gone. Before ten years are up you will see grade schools perceived as nothing more than jail-time... which is what they are.

Traditional methods haven't changed in two millenia, the system has no feedback for improvement, there is no accountability that rewards goal achievement... there's really nothing to recommend the traditional school system.

Let them duke it out and squabble over whatever they like. They don't have a clue, they can only play catch-up and they won't even be able to do that. They simply won't be able to compete with what the web can offer.

We'll soon be questioning the wisdom of having schools outright, and the kids will be all the better off for it.

Re:This is a non-story (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38591308)

But teachers still think this is the way for students to learn. With teachers, it is all about power and how they can maintain control

Call Me Cynical... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38591208)

...But behind all the rhetoric about the children, this boils down to a money fight: The subset of the tech industry trying to sell educational technology, vs the teachers and the teachers' union.

teachers' unions (5, Interesting)

bcrowell (177657) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591236)

I'm a dues-paying, card-carrying member of a teachers' union (at a community college), but I can't help feeling that this is the kind of thing that teachers' unions in the US have brought upon themselves.

What should happen is that K-12 teachers should be professionals, and they should be treated just like other professionals, such as doctors and engineers. When is the last time you heard an engineer claiming that although his bridge fell down, he shouldn't be held accountable? When's the last time you heard a premed saying that it was unreasonable to expect him to do well on the MCAT, because African-Americans do worse on it, on the average, than whites and Asians, thereby proving that the test is racist? Or a doctor whining that it was unreasonable to expect him to use MRI scanners, because he hasn't had the training?

What left the K-12 teaching profession vulnerable to political interference was its history of failing to hold itself to high professional standards. That opened the door to NCLB and a general tendency of politicians to try to tinker with things that ought to lie within teachers' own sphere of professional competence and discretion.

What the politicians in Idaho are doing is stupid, but that kind of incompetent tinkering is the natural result of K-12 teachers' unwillingness to act like professionals.

Re:teachers' unions (1)

marcosdumay (620877) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591380)

Or a doctor whining that it was unreasonable to expect him to use MRI scanners, because he hasn't had the training?

Oh, they don't have to whine. They don't even have to refuse. Docotors simply don't pursuit working with MRI scanners when they think they aren't able, and don't try to prove that they are.

Well, it does not take anything from your point. Just the analogy was a bad one.

Re:teachers' unions (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38591564)

When is the last time you heard an engineer claiming that although his bridge fell down, he shouldn't be held accountable?

A better analogy would be expecting every engineer to design exactly the same bridge, under specifications laid out by a corporation that sells blueprints for bridges, and who aggresively lobbies politicians that their bridge designs are the only ones that will work.

Re:teachers' unions (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38591572)

I have heard of engineers saying they should not be held accountable for their mistakes. Read Richard Feynman's take on the space shuttle Challenger disaster.

I have heard doctors say it, too. Denying responsibility is the basis of all malpractice settlements.

The worst are business people. They demolished our home values, put our backs against the wall, made us taxpayers bail out a ship they sunk, and tell us that they deserve their outrageous salaries because they are smarter than us and "create jobs."

I am also a union-card-carrying teacher, and the problem is not holding up standards for people of color. The very idea that we are resorting to pitting groups against one another speaks to the larger problem as I see it: the rest of us see fighting over the scraps left over from the 1% as a zero-sum game, and that education is the way to get a larger scrap pile.

Technology is not the issue for student achievement, IMHO. Kids (middle-class kids, not just the usual opportunity-deprived poor) see that adults are actively stealing their future from them and that we don't care enough about what's important to them: people. They will play along, but they find our desire for material success amusing at best. Their idea of achievement is to do something they love. A teacher who can help them figure out what that is (or isn't) and how to get there is a teacher you want, tablet or no tablet.

Fighting a lost battle (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38591248)

Michigan has required "on-line experiences" for several years. In many districts this meant on-line courses, and most high schools offer at least a few if not several AP courses via on-line courses. At last check about 20% of college level courses are being taken exclusively on-line, and even a "residential" college has a significant on-line component. This is a broad generalization that obviously has many laudable exceptions, but teachers, who should be all about learning and new things are actually some of the most hide-bound stubborn, change-averse, and in some cases (as in Idaho obviously) actual luddites that I've ever encountered. That's based on 11 years combined as an IT Director for a good size district (9,000 students) and small charter system (1,100 students).

What is an education (2)

sd4f (1891894) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591290)

I think that a lot of people that push for technology (and don't have a vested interest) in the classroom don't realise that, good grades doesn't equal a good education. They try to make out that technology will increase their intelligence, i think it will just make it easier to spoonfeed students, it won't make them any better at developing their own ideas, conducting their own research, nor improving the quality of someones education.

Probably the biggest problem is, tests only identify those who are the best at regurgitating information, arguably, they need to know the information first, but exams don't really test how well students can conduct their own research (finding answers on google isn't research) nor how well they can formulate their own ideas (which is impossible to do on google, but hard to discern by a third party, ie teacher)

I think people should realise that technology has its place, and isn't an extension of somebody, technology is just a tool and not always the right tool.

Re:What is an education (1)

c0lo (1497653) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591638)

What is education

...

I think people should realise that technology has its place, and isn't an extension of somebody, technology is just a tool and not always the right tool.

Right. Others have said it before.

"Education is what survives when what has been learned has been forgotten". (BF Skinner) [dictionary-quotes.com]

"Education is the progressive realization of our ignorance". (A Einstein) [dictionary-quotes.com]

Not if it doesn't work! (5, Insightful)

Shavano (2541114) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591294)

In Colorado, on-line schools have been shown to be less effective than face time with the teacher -- dramatically so.

There's no reason to think that doesn't scale, and if it scales that means that those on-line courses would be ineffective.

Tech in schools is such a waste (2, Insightful)

Tanman (90298) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591302)

The best math teachers I ever had shared one thing in common -- they disallowed calculators in their class. And as fun as a kindle or ipad may be, I'd wager a hefty sum that reading a novel in paper is (at least currently) more intuitive and less of a barrier to the material than reading it electronically. I hate to be a "get off my lawn" type, but I feel that schools should be actively resisting any technological "aid" to teaching that is not something directly taught by the class.

Math classes should be "show your work."
Language, history, and Literature should be "show your notes."
Intro to programming should be "show your algorithms" -- more switch design and less "hello world."

I can see benefit to computers in more advanced programming courses, as well as in history courses that want to include videos and/or art. But really, there is very little place for a computer in sub-college school work. People need to learn to think on their feet.

Just my $0.02.

Re:Tech in schools is such a waste (4, Insightful)

Dynedain (141758) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591478)

The best math teachers I had encouraged calculators because they were focusing on the theory. And by golly the kids learned far more and the teacher focused on teaching rather than rote mechanical operations to drill things in by memorization.

Online Class Requirement (3, Insightful)

Pantero Blanco (792776) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591326)

The plan requires high school students to take online courses for two of their 47 graduation credits.

This sounds like a cost-cutting measure. Online classes are for times when the alternative is not having the class. They're "better than nothing", not "better".

If a school wanted to offer students a course in programming but didn't have anyone capable, then it might make sense to arrange for them to take an online course offered by a third party (preferably a tech school or college in the same area). It doesn't sound like this is anything close to what they're doing.

Books (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38591396)

Their for old people... like reading and math... duh

Follow Silicon Valley tech execs... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38591414)

If its so great, why don't Silicon Valley tech execs use it?

http://parentables.howstuffworks.com/family-matters/silicon-valley-execs-send-their-children-tech-free-schools-and-s-ok.html

The real issue is... (1)

blahplusplus (757119) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591556)

... it's all about how technology is used rather then using it as a bandaid or distraction. There are places in schools where technology makes sense.

The real issue as always comes down to the staff and the students, unwilling uneducated/lazy staff or lazy/disinterested students are the real issues. No amount of technology or NO technology is going to change what is fundamentally a problem of understanding human beings strengths and weaknesses and tracking these people to curriculum appropriate to their abilities and interests.

So? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38591594)

"The article notes that the governor had received campaign contributions from technology companies and that Apple and Intel had played a part in drafting the bill."

How is that relevant? This reminds me of the "attack the person making the statement, not the statement itself" fallacy.

The bottom line is greed, not education (1)

msobkow (48369) | more than 2 years ago | (#38591598)

To help pay for these programs, the state may have to shift tens of millions of dollars away from salaries for teachers and administrators.

Like any pig at a trough, they want it ALL, not just their share. Education of the students is secondary while both sides play politics with their lives.

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