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Lawmakers Intent On Approving SOPA, PIPA

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the no-business-like-show-business dept.

Government 513

snydeq writes "U.S. Congress appears likely to move forward with SOPA and PIPA, despite widespread opposition, IDGNS reports. The U.S. Senate is expected to begin floor debate on PIPA shortly after senators return to D.C. on Jan. 23, and supporters appear to have the votes to override a threatened filibuster. Some opponents of the bills hold out hope: 'We're optimistic that if members really understood the Internet architecture and cybersecurity measures, they would not support SOPA as written. Instead, members who are really committed to combatting online piracy would look for effective ways to do that without compromising cybersecurity or the open architecture of the Internet,' said a CCIA spokesperson. Others remain doubtful that Congress will come to this understanding."

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513 comments

Freedom (5, Insightful)

ae1294 (1547521) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621626)

You are free to do as we tell you. Buy BUY BUY....

Re:Freedom (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38621644)

Was just on SOPAtrack.com yesterday and saw that Sen. Mark Kirk from IL got over $760,000 from pro-PIPA/SOPA interests. I'm gunna go out on a limb and guess I know which way he's going. Meanwhile, the other one is Dick Durbin, a bill co-sponsor.

Illinois Sucks.

Re:Freedom (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38621664)

lately, everything our "leaders" do sucks

Re:Freedom (5, Funny)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622060)

Well, Belgium didn't have a government for about a year.

Lucky bastards...

Re:Freedom (5, Insightful)

dna_(c)(tm)(r) (618003) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622180)

Well, Belgium didn't have a government for about a year.

Lucky bastards...

Apparently, the rest of the world doesn't need one. Our beloved WWW is ruled by the World Senate in Washington D.C. (Department of Commerce).

Just like we pay 5$ to MS for an Android device, covered by software patents that don't apply over here.

One possibility (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38621756)

Is that if SOPA gets passed that it could have positive consequences. Sometimes something crappy has good consequences. Like No Child Left Behind, which ended up showing that girls are just as good as boys at math. So my attitude is that it may not be the end of the world. Things are so complicated. After all, it was Nixon who started passing environmental legislation!

Re:One possibility (1)

spire3661 (1038968) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622052)

You do realize No Child Left Behind means no child can succeed either . All that program does is bring the bright students down to the level of their idiot brethren. They cannot stop piracy without straight up breaking the internet and trampling the constitution. This is not hyperbole.

Re:One possibility (4, Insightful)

marcosdumay (620877) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622066)

There will be one good consequence of SOPA: The US will lose control of DNS.

Re:One possibility (1)

Pi1grim (1956208) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622094)

Yeah, it will do a lot of good. Like finally replacing the DNS system and moving torrents to shadow-nets. Oh, I would so like to see if the rest of the world will finally make their own DNS infrastructure and SOPA will just create a Great Firewall of USA. Way to go.
Heck, I think if we introduce 5 year prison sentence for everyone who downloaded the movie, everyone will just rush to the stores to buy their limited edition blueray for 100 dollars. Or maybe it will decrease the indirect advertising the movies get from torrents and the industry will finally die without the income. Or, more likely they will just tax everyone because if the companies are losing sales it is not because they have a crappy business model, it because of the people, who copy information and share it.

Re:One possibility (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622096)

There is rarely something without good and bad consequences. The problem is that in the examples you present the bad outweighs the good by some margin. I won't get into detail about Nixon (too easy).

No child left behind sure made grades more comparable. For the price of dumbing down the curriculum to the point where the kids we get out of it are by no means close to what they could be. By artificially lowering the bar, sure, we managed that everyone's a winner... or more exactly, that the brighter kids are the losers. They could have gotten an education worth the name instead. Now all they have is an education that is on par with the lowest common denominator. If it had been coupled with a gifted handup program, we could talk, but alas, that would be against the ideals of NCLB, making everyone equal.

That a conservative government embraces a principle of communism...

Re:One possibility (1)

AngryDeuce (2205124) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622138)

Is that if SOPA gets passed that it could have positive consequences.

Yeah, like finally waking up a populace that's been asleep for many years. If this shit passes, the U.S.'s days are numbered. If you consider that a positive (and given the nature of our government, I absolutely fucking do) then that's probably about the only positive effect this shit is going to have.

Re:One possibility (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38622210)

Is that if SOPA gets passed that it could have positive consequences.

Yeah, like finally waking up a populace that's been asleep for many years. If this shit passes, the U.S.'s days are numbered. If you consider that a positive (and given the nature of our government, I absolutely fucking do) then that's probably about the only positive effect this shit is going to have.

You''ve got to be kidding! If you think SOPA and PIPA are going to "wake up" the populace, you need to adjust your medication. The Patriot Act was *welcomed* by many Americans. If the Patriot Act wasn't enough to wake people up, they're out for the night, bud. Yes, it's sad.

Re:Freedom (5, Insightful)

The Snowman (116231) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621826)

Was just on SOPAtrack.com yesterday and saw that Sen. Mark Kirk from IL got over $760,000 from pro-PIPA/SOPA interests. I'm gunna go out on a limb and guess I know which way he's going.

QFT. They don't understand SOPA, don't want to understand. What they do understand is someone is giving tons of money to pass a bill.

Business as usual in Congress.

What I would like to see happen is repealing all the extra copyright legislation such as the DMCA and not passing any more. Let the content producers use the existing system to sue copyright infringers. Our existing copyright law works. It has teeth. It just requires things such as "evidence" and "due process," which is an annoyance to Hollywood. However, I doubt this will ever happen.

Re:Freedom (5, Insightful)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622026)

The situation with copyright isn't unique to that field. It is just an example of a law for which mass-enforcement is near-impossible: Violation occurs with such frequency that even with all the efforts of interests public and private it is impossible to prosecute more than a tiny proportion of even the obviously guilty. This is further compounded by how lightly the law is regarded by the public.

In such a situation, there are a few options available:
1. Give up. Dont' do anything, just don't bother enforcing the law, and it it fall into obscurity.
2. Make it enforceable via draconian measures - get rid of the difficulties of fair trials and the need to gather evidence for the minor cases, and make the enforcement process as quick and cheap as possible. This does run the risk of punishing some innocent people, but that is the cost of catching all of the guilty.. That was the purpose of the DMCA: It wasn't practical to sue every site hosting a pirated file, so the DMCA allowed copyright holders to achieve much the same with nothing more than a quick email. SOPA takes the same approach a step further.
3. Decriminalisation. If everyone is breaking a law, and the government can't stop them, then accept that perhaps the law itsself is at fault and needs to be abandoned - possibly to be replaced with something more workable.

The currently popular approach with politicians around the world is option two.

felonies en masse (4, Insightful)

Oxford_Comma_Lover (1679530) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622054)

Actually, this is worse than usual--the definition of the willfulness requirement for criminal copyright, technically ambiguous for about a century, will make it absolutely clear that a massive percentage of the American population--even those who have never shared a file in their life--will be felons.

Re:Freedom (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622130)

You think we have the same quality lawmakers we had when prohibition was abolished? I wouldn't count on that.

It's time to take a historical approach... (5, Interesting)

AngryDeuce (2205124) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621982)

Our founding fathers declared themselves an independent country and went to war over shit like this. No taxation without representation...are we truly represented in this government? The people? Of course not. It's time to stop trying to play their stupid game, the game is rigged against us from the start. It's time to start flipping boards...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Revolution is our birthright. The Bill of Rights grants all U.S. citizens the right of revolution by guaranteeing the freedoms that facilitate it, freedoms that our government has been trying to rein in with every passing year. Every branch of this government is corrupt. We have no representation in congress anymore. History has come full circle...

Time to start looking to those 2nd Amendment solutions, boys and girls. Put your trust in God, but keep your powder dry. I never in a million years thought I would see this in my lifetime, but it seems that it is inevitable at this point.

Re:It's time to take a historical approach... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38622108)

I agree. There is going to be another revolution. Probably not over this issue, its just a pebble but one day the right pebble will start an avalanche.

Re:It's time to take a historical approach... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38622134)

Riiiight... you will be squashed like a bug. You think those tens of millions of Jersey Shore-watching soccer moms are going to join you? You think the vast, vast majority will risk life and limb when they have that cushy job down at the office? No. You'll find a few, but you and your twenty buddies will be squatted down like the insignificance that you actually are to those in power.

I tend to agree it's time to throw the current system out (ideally without having to use violence) and start anew, with a small government and a small set of make-sense laws. Maybe a government heavy on scientists, engineers, doctors, and other people who understand things deeply, and light on lawyers and career bureaucrats. But do I think that will ever happen? No.

The actual endgame for the USA is a long decline into a has-been, with ever decreasing standard of living as we are more and more unable to compete in the modern world.

Re:It's time to take a historical approach... (2)

Pi1grim (1956208) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622146)

You know, people have the government they deserve. If large enough percentage of the population gave a sh#t and would actively demonstrated it (that's the word, demonstration, to show your position) there would be no need for a revolution. And trust me, as soon as minority grabs their guns and tries to make a better place for everyone — it never goes the way it should. A lot of blood is spilled, usually that, of the innocent bystanders. And in the end you just end up with another set of greedy smoothtalkers in the sits. Fight for democracy is a never ending one. And as for US — they have been exporting the democracy to middle east in such ammounts, that, there may be none left for the citizens in the states.

Re:Freedom (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38622082)

It's good to see a bit of bipartisanship. Taking money from you fools, something politicians can agree on regardless of party.

Re:Freedom (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38621672)

No, no, no. We won't buy. This legislation, which is so tilted against the interests of the vast majority of the populace, which imperils the functioning of the internet, will cause piracy to explode. Because this law will give pirates something they've never had until now. Moral sanction.

More people will feel it is right to steal from Hollywood, than to buy from them. And that will seal their fate.

It'll seal ours too, more's the pity, as our internet struggles to survive.

Re:Freedom (4, Insightful)

Wonko the Sane (25252) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621744)

This legislation, which is so tilted against the interests of the vast majority of the populace

I don't know how much more evidence it is going to take before people stop listening to the propaganda and start facing reality.

They don't care.

Representative government is a myth. It's a contradiction; there are rulers (those who govern) and there are subjects (those who are governed). Guess which one you are? [youtube.com]

Re:Freedom (3, Funny)

jhoegl (638955) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621932)

A non-voting felon?

Wasn't there just a study... (1)

rsilvergun (571051) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621928)

showing that most (well over 50%) of people don't feel bad when they pirate stuff? I don't think they need moral justification.

Re:Wasn't there just a study... (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622044)

People get into piracy for the free stuff. Then they turn political. It isn't the first time a movement for reform had its origins in criminal activity.

Re:Freedom (1)

voidptr (609) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622042)

Boycott them entirely instead. Find and support entertainment that isn't their product.

Using this as an excuse to pirate even more just gives them more ammunition for the next round. Having sales fall off a cliff and not being able to blame it on piracy sends a better message, particularly if it means other artists find and thrive on more sustainable means to still earn a living.

Re:Freedom (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622158)

But will they learn? What will they think? Let's see... will it be

"Oh gee, our sales are down. People are boycotting our products, it's time we realize that our customer is our partner, not our enemy!"

or will it be

"Oh gee, our sales are down. Must be piracy because it's just impossible to live without our crap. We need to buy more and tougher laws to protect us!"

Re:Freedom (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38621780)

Congress understands the Internet just fine. They don't use it much, but seriously, they get it. The issue here is not ignorance or stupidity, but loyalty. They owe favors to powerful lobbies, and those favors include restrictive legislation that will pull the claws right off the Internet and return the technological landscape back to a state where specific old business models were extremely profitable.

They understand the Internet, and they want to make it go away. For want of that ability, they want to make it so useless that it may as well be gone. They pay lip service to its importance because of its popularity, but since they don't rely upon it themselves they simply don't buy in.

To modify a popular quote...don't attribute to ignorance that which obviously stems from malice.

Agreed (4, Interesting)

Brain-Fu (1274756) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621840)

Education, and logical argument based on the realities of the technology, won't make our representatives budge. The only way to get them to change their position is to apply real political force. That means forming lobbies and throwing actual money at the problem, just like the large corporations do. It also means getting enough people ready and willing to vote for candidates who will actually represent them.

Of course, producing that level of political force requires a huge amount of cooperation (and hence understanding) from the governed. *THAT* is hard to do. Most American people, even the ones who vote and consider themselves politically involved, don't understand these issues well enough to self-organize properly. That is why the wealthy corporations (which for all practical purposes are already well-organized political armies with a handful of people calling the shots) have such an easy time of pushing the rest of us around.

THEY aren't the ones who don't understand. We are.

Re:Freedom (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622100)

"those congress critters are so stupid, they don't know what they're doing!"

uh, yes, they do know what they're doing.

its called pure evil and its business as usual (sigh) with our kang/kodos style 'elected' officials.

no amount of letter writing will help. don't be idiots, people. don't think, even for a second, they have your cares and needs at heart.

we can only hope that some clean-up effort will come, much much later, once a shitstorm of damage is done by this.

like they say in the police state that is the USA: "you cannot beat the ride but you may be able to beat the rap." ie, bad laws will fuck you over and once fucked over, you -may- be able to call attention to it and get it fixed. but you have to be beaten on the head and suffer, first.

nice country we have here. wonder where the real USA went??

Re:Freedom (1)

Pi1grim (1956208) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622204)

You cannot make the old model profitable. You cannot get the geany back in the bottle. People have gotten the taste of free stuff and have begun understanding that the business model is flawed. Trust me, filesharing will survive, decentralized nets, encryption technology is available, and approving draconical laws will simply give people the incentive to use those nets. If you make taking crap illegal, people will not stop crapping. Try to enforce it — and you might just be reminded that power is not god-given, that you were actually elected by the people and they might just care enough to take that right away. And remember that there are certain limits to the extent of military power. Those are people too, in the police, in the military, they have friends, family and if you push them to opress the population too much, you might just get the exactly opposite reaction — and if it gets to that Well, I would not want to be in their place.

Can't wait (4, Interesting)

alphatel (1450715) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621650)

Internet blackout day is sure to be a historical event for all ages.

Re:Can't wait (4, Insightful)

DCTech (2545590) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621678)

I doubt Google is going to do it, it would cost them too much money.

Re:Can't wait (4, Insightful)

Nimatek (1836530) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621684)

SOPA would cost them so much more than that..

Re:Can't wait (1)

AikonMGB (1013995) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621698)

What, and SOPA won't cost them a dime?

Re:Can't wait (5, Insightful)

click2005 (921437) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621740)

I'd love to see Google de-list ALL SOPA/PIPA supporting organisations, even if its just for a day.
Amazon could stop selling products from the same people.

Re:Can't wait (3, Insightful)

adamchou (993073) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621996)

just for a day? they should do it permanently. what does google have to gain from listing them? listing them will only drive more revenue to those sponsors which will just increase the amount of money those supporters will use to drive forward legislative acts that take away our rights

Re:Can't wait (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38622126)

what does google have to gain from listing them?

delisting will damage their reputation....

Re:Can't wait (3, Insightful)

click2005 (921437) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622150)

No, because its about making a point. If Google starts to delist thing just because they disagree with something then where will it end.
Should they delist Apple because they're a competitor who condones slave labour in China?
Should they delist religions because they are evil, offensive and promote hatred?

Re:Can't wait (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38622032)

Yep. Delist them permanently. Block all requests from Govt. departments, and cut them off from all the services.
Make them listen past the money.

Re:Can't wait (1)

chichilalescu (1647065) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621836)

what, 1/365 of their yearly income?

Re:Can't wait (3, Insightful)

spire3661 (1038968) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622078)

It cost them a ton of money to pull out of China but they did it. Google has a mouth and the balls to back it up. China, FCC spectrum, Chrome. They do put their money where their mouth is.

Re:Can't wait (5, Interesting)

mvar (1386987) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622128)

Opponents of the bill include Google, Yahoo!, Facebook, Twitter, DynDNS, AOL, LinkedIn, eBay, Mozilla Corporation, the Wikimedia Foundation and human rights organizations such as Reporters Without Borders the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the ACLU, and Human Rights Watch.

Forget for a moment mozilla, wikipedia or the other non-profit organizations - with all those companies (amazon, yahoo, facebook, google) opposing SOPA, isn't it very weird that this proposed law hasn't been canceled already? Does the MPAA/RIAA block have more lobby-power than all those companies combined?

Re:Can't wait (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38621746)

Yes yes, protests are all fine, but where were Google when SOPA was being drafted? The technology companies are larger than the media companies. Where's their presence in Washington, precisely?

Re:Can't wait (5, Interesting)

AngryDeuce (2205124) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621798)

Yes yes, protests are all fine, but where were Google when SOPA was being drafted?

Getting slammed with anti-trust bullshit. Google is "the enemy" to a lot of people in Congress right now, because they're marching to the orders of the MAFIAA.

Besides, Google's testimony was pretty much completely dismissed by the committee right to their face. They more or less said "I don't understand how this is going to negatively effect the internet nor do I care." They never had any intention of listening to a fucking word anyone said in opposition.

Re:Can't wait (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38621986)

Committee meetings? Think about this for a second: how do you think SOPA ever even got to the floor in the first place? Because lobbyists from the media companies said "We want this to happen". Where were the technology companies (including, but not limited too, Google) when this was happening? The companies who oppose legislation like SOPA weren't there to say "We DON'T want this to happen", because they're all non-entities in Washington. They're not organised, and they don't lobby. Until they do, legislation will continue to be lopsided in favour of the companies who are lobbying.

Re:Can't wait (1)

alphatel (1450715) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622062)

Getting slammed with anti-trust bullshit. Google is "the enemy" to a lot of people in Congress right now, because they're marching to the orders of the MAFIAA.

Imagine this possibility: Google takes the legs out of Sopa, and a lawsuit suddenly emerges with a judge ruling for the split of Google - just like MS in 1999.

Re:Can't wait (2)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622140)

calling google for 'defense' is a joke, too.

they are not your friends. they have their OWN agenda. if this affects their dear doubleclick, they get annoyed! they don't care one whit about you or your so-called freedom. the only freedom they want is to keep owning the internet, bit by bit. (have you seen all the outbound connects that go to google domains when you do almost ANYTHING non-goog based? I have. google is, sadly, in everyone's pie, these days).

I don't trust the gov as they have hidden agendas.

likewise, you'd be foolish to trust the mega corp google, as the same explanation applies. they are not good guys, they are a mega corp with its own needs and wants.

Re:Can't wait (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38621938)

I want to see an internet blackout week. It would have much more of an impact of how life is without the tools you are used to using.

Understanding? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38621656)

I think it's pretty naïve to think that SOPA passing is an issue of understanding, as though lawmakers wouldn't consider it if they knew anything about technology.

The vast majority or these people have already been bought and paid for by the entertainment industry. Their technological knowledge is irrelevant. They need to be removed from office, not educated.

Re:Understanding? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38622034)

They need to be removed from office, not educated.

Well, at this point removing them from office won't help. You'll just get more of the same. The problem is that truly honest people don't get elected (as they haven't been career politicians and wouldn't get to the House or Senate - as you don't just get elected there without putting in your time on planning commissions, city councils and the like first). If some truly honest person did make it in, the big companies would pay for a smear campaign that would get them voted out in the next election. If you don't play ball and do what the companies and lobbyists want, you don't get to stay in office. Removing the current office holders won't do anything to correct the problem. The whole system would need to be fixed. But, it turns out, the people who can fix the system are the ones benefiting from it remaining it its current state. Do you think they want to fix it?

capitalism (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38621674)

Free market capitalism begets domination by a cadre of elite businessmen begets lobbying to government begets laws in favour of those men becoming more equal than others begets Mussolini's corporatism.

This sort of thing is inevitable. You can claim SOPA is a special case or you can face that this is the inevitable path of things to come unless a fundamental shift in philosophy occurs in the West.

business can use stuff like this to stop competito (2)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621676)

competitors with little proof.

Hell apple and MS can both file claims and shut down each other web sites.

Re:business can use stuff like this to stop compet (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38621754)

Gee, if someone wrote a program to automatically submit a claim against a site, and someone else wrote an extension to use that program to submit a claim against every single internet site on the planet, and many many people used it all at the same time, I wonder what would happen?

Re:business can use stuff like this to stop compet (3, Informative)

AngryDeuce (2205124) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621818)

Nothing, because this bill isn't designed to help little people, it's designed to allow major corporations stamp out the little people and own the net.

I doubt that the reports are even going to be looked at unless they come from a lobbyist...us little people don't count for shit.

Re:business can use stuff like this to stop compet (3, Insightful)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621974)

Gee, if someone wrote a program to automatically submit a claim against a site, and someone else wrote an extension to use that program to submit a claim against every single internet site on the planet, and many many people used it all at the same time, I wonder what would happen?

People would be arrested for filing false reports until everyone was too terrified to keep up the effort. Filing a false report is not a form of protest; protests are supposed to be held in free speech areas where nobody has to be bothered.

Re:business can use stuff like this to stop compet (1)

sidthegeek (626567) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622156)

Someone would file a patent on that program and then sue everyone else, therefore stopping people from using the program and saving our Internet! It's genius, I tells ya!

Yay! (4, Funny)

Dan East (318230) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621682)

Good! I have a thing for legislation with pronounceable acronyms. In fact, that's really the only important part. I'm sure many legislators would agree.

Alas Internets, I knew thee well... (1)

teknx (2547472) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621690)

If this passes, I imagine the internet will eventually become a hollow shell of it what it used to be. Get ready folks, The internet is about to take an arrow to the knee.

Re:Alas Internets, I knew thee well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38622168)

Were you on the net in the 80's? It's ALREADY a hollow shell of what it used to be. This will just continue the trend.

what to stop a fake AV/spyware from useing this to (0)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621702)

what to stop a fake AV/spyware from useing this to Shut down the real AV / anit spyware apps? All they have to say is that they brake our apps DRM and let's uses use our app's for free.

Re:what to stop a fake AV/spyware from useing this (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622074)

It still needs an order from a judge to pull a domain. The judge just doesn't need to see any evidence.

Not that much evidence will be needed in most cases. I imagine the first site to come down will be TBP... and SOPA should keep them offline for at least a couple of hours before they have a hundred additional mirrors.

Not surprised... (1)

Lordfly (590616) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621704)

It's a pretty geeky issue to get worked up about. Most people won't notice until Youtube gets pulled. By then it'll be on the books for months, and we won't have any recourse to get rid of it. And it's not like the Congress Critters are listening anyway. It's an election year, after all, and they need Hollywood donations....

Oh well, the internet was fun while it lasted. I guess I'll go outside now.

Re:Not surprised... (3, Insightful)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622086)

Youtube has money. Such laws are rarely used against companies with that much money. I imagine though that, were SOPA around when youtube was founded, the site would have been killed before it ever became popular enough for you to know the name.

Who is really in control? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38621714)

Well, the congress critters will never come to any understanding about how bad these bills are as long as they are being paid by their equally myopic, greedy overlords.

Coming soon... (3, Informative)

mark-t (151149) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621720)

Soon, I expect it will be illegal for any private individual to utilize the services of a foreign DNS. Blocking by IP address will probably start happening. Owing to the lack of availability of IPv4 address space, the practicality of places using different IP's to continue to allow connectivity will be impeded, so IP address blocking may enjoy limited success. Incentives for IPv6, where there is no lack of address space, will start to quickly rise among the pirate communities to get around this limitation, but I expect this will likely be perceived as a measure that is created to bypass SOPA, and so new laws will probably be formed that will limit IPv6's overall adoption rate.

I hope I'm wrong. I just have a really awful feeling I'm not.

Nothing will change until (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38621736)

Nothing will change until we get rid of all these geriatric drama queens. We need to start putting Gen X'ers that at least started out in technical, "real work" fields...

I'm tired of all these old, pampered, "groomed by their daddies fortunes", jerks that keep screwing everything up.

Time for tactical action? (2)

davidbrit2 (775091) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621748)

Put up a site outing the names of every lawmaker that ever votes in favor of such a bill, and allow visitors to sign a petition pledging to vote against anybody that does so. Show the count on the site, and forward a list of those who signed to said lawmakers a week before any major vote on the issue. That should make them sweat.

Re:Time for tactical action? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38621822)

Not really. Incumbency rates are at like 95% reelection. People will vote for the same old assholes no matter what you do.

Re:Time for tactical action? (4, Interesting)

ae1294 (1547521) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621832)

Put up a site outing the names of every lawmaker that ever votes in favor of such a bill, and allow visitors to sign a petition pledging to vote against anybody that does so. Show the count on the site, and forward a list of those who signed to said lawmakers a week before any major vote on the issue. That should make them sweat.

Really no reason for the site to be real. They won't know. Problem is they don't care. They leave congress and get a nice job handed to them along with a kilo of blow and three underage hookers.

Re:Time for tactical action? (1)

Frankie70 (803801) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622218)

Why don't you do it?

Good "Why SOPA is bad for non-geeks" article? (5, Interesting)

quasius (1075773) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621808)

Has anyone written a good article on why this is so bad that non-geeks could understand? Something you could link non-technical friends to?

Re:Good "Why SOPA is bad for non-geeks" article? (3, Interesting)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621856)

How about the simplest explanation possible: this is what the authoritarian governments of China and Iran do, and they have been heavily criticized by the very hypocrites who are voting for this law. Why mire people down with technical issues when we can take the direct approach that reminds them that their elected representatives are corrupt, two-faced, and failing to represent their interests?

Re:Good "Why SOPA is bad for non-geeks" article? (3, Interesting)

quasius (1075773) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621960)

Not good enough. People don't give a shit about high-minded ideals like "freedom." Also, China and Iran are evil because they are evil- when we do similar things it's because of good and stopping terrorism or something. What is the one-liner that tells non-geeks why it's bad *for them* and will disrupt *their* lives?

Re:Good "Why SOPA is bad for non-geeks" article? (2)

illumastorm (172101) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622056)

SOPA will kill free pron!

Re:Good "Why SOPA is bad for non-geeks" article? (1)

mark-t (151149) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621978)

It's not like the general public are going to get a vote on this issue.... and by the time they have a chance to vote the people out of office that voted on this, it will be too late... SOPA will be in place and much harder to get rid of, even if new people are put in office.

dangerous because it will be used at the fringes (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38621812)

Whoever votes for this, their ISPs should disconnect their household from the internet entirely.

Some people on slashdot are saying things like, "this could end up disconnecting youtube!" But that's just the problem: it won't. Youtube is huge, everyone knows about it, nobody is going to want to cut it off. And that's where the problem lies: this legislation will be used only against less popular sites on the fringes and the margins - things the average DWTS watching idiot doesn't care about. So there will never be significant public support against it. THAT is why it's dangerous.

Re:dangerous because it will be used at the fringe (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38622216)

Exactly. If in a few years Joe Sixpack can still get to facebook and youtube, well, what's the problem? It's not about freedom for most people, it's about bread and circuses. Funny how some Roman dude almost 2000 years ago nailed it so perfectly. Human nature hasn't changed since.

Only One Way to Fight It (1)

mwolfam (1996248) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621844)

Make those people in Congress fear for their jobs. I will be out today distributing fliers urging people to contact their representatives (both my Senators support it and my Representative is a co-sponsor). At the same time I am collecting signatures to put anit-SOPA candidates into the primary. Bitching on the internet is a good place to start. Let your Social Networks know this is happening, but if you really care then you have to actually get out there. Most people don't even know this is happening. I hope Google and Wikipedia will blackout for a short time just to prove the danger, but even then you have to be willing to make a stand occasionally.

Re:Only One Way to Fight It (1)

quasius (1075773) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621860)

Where is the quick-to-read article / resource to link to that non-geeks can understand explaining why this is so bad? (Serious question)

Re:Only One Way to Fight It (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38621892)

Make those people in Congress fear for their jobs.

Their jobs? How about their lives? Some old school assassination is in order. And not just the politicians, but the executives of the corporate interests controlling them. These people need to die.

Re:Only One Way to Fight It (2)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622006)

Now, now... if that would accomplish anything, maybe you'd have a point, but what if you wipe out congress? What changes? Nothing changes. The next line of seat warmers just gets moved in. Different people get their pockets filled, else, nothing changes.

Why bother?

Re:Only One Way to Fight It (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38622024)

Not until there's no way to vote them out, and we're far, far from that. Your gripe should be with voters who keep sending these idiots to Washington to play quarterback. First of all, we need to send referees, not quarterbacks. Second, we need to send people who dislike using legislation and who keep their word. How can you do that? It's easy. Vote for the third party of your choice next time. When enough people finally do that, the numbers will grow and it will become obvious that they are viable candidates.

Re:Only One Way to Fight It (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38622102)

Make those people in Congress fear for their jobs.

Their jobs? How about their lives? Some old school assassination is in order. And not just the politicians, but the executives of the corporate interests controlling them. These people need to die.

"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor; and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and their freedoms.” -- Robert A. Heinlein

Re:Only One Way to Fight It (1)

Garybaldy (1233166) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622114)

Sad thing is you got modded down for the only thing the public has left open to them to force change. Yes everyone putting money together to form lobbyist groups to buy off politicians would work. However it is very unlikely to happen. Assassination's on the other hand i do see as a very likely possibility.

Make the Internet read-only (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38621862)

Ever notice how there's no way to record HD signals without a "service" nowadays? The internet is going the same way. The MPAA, RIAA and Congress won't rest until the internet is read-only.

Re:Make the Internet read-only (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621994)

That's the part neither legislators nor industry really got about the internet. Yes, it's a great medium to spread your propaganda, but it works bidirectionally. Meaning, people can't only listen to your droning, they can reply too. And they can spread their own information without asking you first whether you're ok with it.

That this doesn't sit well with people who are used to having a monopoly on information is a given.

Terrorists (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38621896)

I will consider US government as a terrorist organization and threat to humanity should they succeed with this.

Re:Terrorists (2)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621966)

Umm... two wars including war crimes, ignoring the Den Hague court, Guantanamo and you needed THAT to come to that conclusion?

Racketeering shakedown (4, Insightful)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621918)

The government is shaking down the Internet related businesses, and that's what these laws are aimed at I think. The politicians are looking at Google, Yahoo, Amazon, etc., and asking themselves a question: WHAT THE FUCK? Why aren't these putzes paying us the racket money like the rest of them? Of-course those businesses are also paying something that has to do with taxes, but there is so much money there (and everybody knows about it), that the politicians want more than just tax optimization/evasion money, they want REAL money, they want - "hey, you have a nice business going here, it would be a shame if something was to happen to your entire business model and you were shut down" money.

That, and also of-course they want the RIAA and MPAA money and they want ISP money and they want your money and they want to be able to shut down the Internet because it's scaring them - just look at the way Ron Paul support grew because of the Internet.

So you have too much freedom - and that's what politicians want to take away and I had a long [slashdot.org] discussion [slashdot.org] about the fact that every single law that politicians push forward ends up reducing your freedoms and increases 'strength' of the government while weakening the individual liberties and the economy and the society of the nation, and even on this site people don't see this.

Technical solutions? (3, Interesting)

Felix Da Rat (93827) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621924)

I'm doing what I can on the social front (emailing and calling), but if (when) this does pass, what is the best way to route around the damage on a personal level?

We got a large number of suggestions for alternate providers with the GoDaddy debacle; can we get some suggestions of good international VPN / Proxy providers? Alternate suggestions for dealing with this?

Oh, don't worry, they understood (2)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621952)

If I vote for it, I get a kickback, if I vote against it, I get squat.

Who does this help? Not many I can tell. (4, Interesting)

RyanFenton (230700) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621956)

I'm quite confused about who this serves.

Usually, moves like these are pushed as in the interests of large corporate interests - but as far as I can understand the only company interests this will actually serve will be law firms and a few confused entertainment groups that don't mind acting like public villains to punish their potential customers.

The whole thing just looks like a big legal clusterfuck - where everyone demands everyone else pull everything from the internet. The net effect will just be a huge drain on the economy, as even more resources are spent on useless legal back-and-forths, and everyone gets even more nervous before being able to accomplish something businesswise in the world.

The net effect should mostly be to deepen the recession, force more consolidation with a smaller pool of useful resources for everyone, and push more business out of the US.

It just doesn't make sense - why would any lawmaker be interested in lowering the economic tides for everyone, further stalling a huge and important part of our economic recovery just for the sake of a very small number of companies without much actual money?

From a moral perspective it makes no sense - which is what I usually expect - but even from a sociopathic perspective of gathering resources at all costs, it makes no sense.

Ryan Fenton

Here's What Needs To Happen. (4, Insightful)

smpoole7 (1467717) | more than 2 years ago | (#38621972)

Some of you won't like this, but I hope you'll at least give this a hard consideration. The bottom line is that it's our fault.

For example, I know from the comments here over the years that some of you are complete partisans. I'm surprised that, even this early in this thread, we haven't already seen "It's the Evil Republicans(tm)," followed by, "no, it's the stupid Democrats," complete with scores that go up and down like a VU meter on a rap tune: troll, insightful, back to troll, then insightful, over and over, as each partisan group lashes out.

BOTH PARTIES ARE CORRUPT AND HAVE SOLD YOU OUT. This doesn't mean there aren't a few honest congresscritters running loose. But folks, there's a REASON why, during the primaries, candidates can call each other every name in the book, but once a nominee is selected, all of the losers magically say, "well, of course I'll support him/her! He/She is a fine person!"

It's all about the money and the power: Chairmanships in Congress, lucrative appointments, voting blocks and power brokers. This plays out every two years, and the best we can do is scream, "less filling/tastes great/less filling/tastes great," Dem vs. Repub over and over.

Here's the example that some of you really, really aren't going to like. I know (again, from reading comments) that there are some of you here who supported the Health Care bill, but who are vehemently opposed to SOPA. (For the record, I am in opposition to BOTH.) You can't have it both ways. Every reputable poll ever taken has shown that the American people were strongly opposed to that HealthCare bill, but there were some of you here who said, "yay!" when it passed. You called those who passed it, even knowing that they might be un-elected, "brave heroes."

(Or, a quick conservative example: Scott Brown wins Ted Kennedy's old seat in Mass, and right wingers rejoiced. A few months later, he voted for a treaty that the right wing hated. They attacked Brown and wondered why he had "betrayed" them. What they should have asked was, "what do the people of Massachusetts want?" If he was reflecting their desires, they need to SHUT UP. He represents THEM, not a party or an ideology.)

So, SOPA. If you can convince enough Congresscritters that enough of US care to un-elect them if they vote for it, it can be stopped. But if they (and more importantly, their strategists) convince themselves that they can finesse it, or find some other issue that will cause you to hold your nose and re-elect them, they'll vote for SOPA.

In plain English: some of you who hate the "Repugs" may have to vote for one in November, if your Dem congressman votes for SOPA. Will you do that?

Likewise, my conservative friends: will you vote for a "Demoncrat" if your beloved Repub congresscreature votes for SOPA?

If the answer to either question is, "no" (or even just a little hesitation), you have only yourself to blame. That's the bottom line.

Re:Here's What Needs To Happen. (3, Insightful)

alphatel (1450715) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622104)

Health Care was created to give everyone access to something they couldn't afford. SOPA is created to give corporations access to putting you in jail.

Yes, both are examples of government over-reaching, but one attempts to serve the public trust (quite imperfectly) while the other serves to enforce fascism on the US and the world at large.

what if... (2)

adamchou (993073) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622038)

the internet community just decided to violate SOPA and PIPA. they would be taken to court and if the general populace is strongly opposed enough to the legislation, the jury could nullify the legislation? would that be enough to overturn the new laws? or is that just wishful dreaming?

Re:what if... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38622166)

You go first

In other news, the rest of the world (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38622092)

Looks forward to leading innovation and (naturally) getting your nice jobs as the cost of doing business in the US gets too high.

- Even Europe!

Could SCOTUS do anything? (2)

walterbyrd (182728) | more than 2 years ago | (#38622212)

SOPA sure seems unconstitutional to me.

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