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Israel Says It Will Treat Online Credit Card Theft As It Would Terrorism

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the willing-to-donate-a-hammer dept.

Crime 422

In the wake of the online theft of at least 6,000 credit card numbers belonging to Israelis, Israel's Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon said that "Israel has active capabilities for striking at those who are trying to harm it, and no agency or hacker will be immune from retaliatory action." Also at Reuters, with a few more details about the believed thief, known as OxOmar: "After Israeli media ran what they said were interviews conducted with OxOmar over email, the Haaretz newspaper said a blogger had tracked the hacker down and determined he was a 19-year-old citizen of the United Arab Emirates studying and working in Mexico."

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How about spammers? (3, Insightful)

ducomputergeek (595742) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623252)

I mean, if suddenly a few of these turkey's start getting the business end of a small caliber pistol to the back of the head it wouldn't be that bad would it?

Re:How about spammers? (2, Insightful)

DCTech (2545590) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623472)

Would that also include the likes of GroupOn and other sites who capture your email so they can spam you? It's the same matter, just legalized.

Retaliatory action? (5, Insightful)

vakuona (788200) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623256)

What are they going to do, kill him?

Re:Retaliatory action? (5, Insightful)

retech (1228598) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623298)

Of course they'll kill them. Since Israel is ALWAYS the victim (sic) and the only way they can enact justice is to butcher the criminal and his family and his friends and his friend's families. And rightfully so. All those people were either active participants in the crime or had committed thought crime by inaction. They all deserve the same retribution. It's what Israel does best. I think we should send them more money because they are such a victim all the time they need more weapons.

Re:Retaliatory action? (2, Insightful)

lordandmaker (960504) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623386)

You're a couple of decades late. These days Israel is ALWAYS the aggressor from what I hear.

Re:Retaliatory action? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38623460)

Here's 5 pence. Go and have your sarcasm detector adjusted.

Re:Retaliatory action? (5, Insightful)

alphatel (1450715) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623648)

Here's 5 pence. Go and have your sarcasm detector adjusted.

Seriously, only weeks after the US declares all terrorists will be held indefinitely without regard to citizenship. Pick up a CC you find on the street, expect to surrender your rights as an American.

Re:Retaliatory action? (1)

lordandmaker (960504) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623830)

Yeah, likewise.

Re:Retaliatory action? (5, Funny)

dmesg0 (1342071) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623496)

Israel is and always was the aggressor! They kill millions of innocent unarmed palestinians every day, use their heads to play soccer, and the rest of the bodies to provide blood for their matzos.

Absolutely everybody knows that.

Re:Retaliatory action? (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38623770)

Just like how hundreds of Israelis are driven off their land and have their olive groves bulldozed so Palestinian settlements can be built on their land? (free of any other races or religions of course). Isn't that how it works?

Those poor poor Israelis, having to suffer with their billion dollars in aid so they can turn around and compete with the US.

Now the ultra-orthodox are taking over Israel so the rest of the population can reap the Jewish extremism they have fostered.

Re:Retaliatory action? (2)

fred911 (83970) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623568)

Proving that the best defence (more times then not) is a quick and aggressive offence. Not to mention excellent intelligence.

Re:Retaliatory action? (4, Insightful)

timeOday (582209) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623926)

The whole agression vs. retaliation dichotomy is pretty meaningless when talking about two sides that have been trading blows almost continually for decades.

Re:Retaliatory action? (3, Insightful)

CapOblivious2010 (1731402) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623990)

The whole agression vs. retaliation dichotomy is pretty meaningless when talking about two sides that have been trading blows almost continually for decades.

Decades??? Try Millenia!

Re:Retaliatory action? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38623642)

I think you are a victim of propaganda and I am sad for you that you are so narrow minded. Do you even know where Israel is on a map? Do you know its history? Do you know what "Palestinians" are and really come from? Do you even understand the conflicts? Do you think you understand Islam? Or even Judaism for that matter.

Getting directly to the article and crime, first of all, this hacking was done for a mix of racial, religious, and political reasons. This would not have been done to another Arab country in this way. The hacker was very clearly a racist and a bigot. If you read Israeli newspapers, you will get much more coverage of the facts (suprisingly many israeli newspapers are left wing and anti-govt before you call bias). Moreover, how do you propose a nation handle what is a direct attack against its citizens. This is different than an attack on Twitter users world-wide, this is a nationally and racially target attack.

Secondly, last I recall, citizens in other countries don't fear being blown up, shot, kidnapped, and tortured by Israelis. There's always a bad egg in every basket, sure, but percentage wise Israelis are among the most humane, ethical, and moral people. Just ask all the illegal immigrants, many of whom come from places that vowed to destroy Israel. Israel may not allow them all to stay, but they at least take care of them, feed the, give them medical care. Conversely, those same people trying to stream across the Egyptian border are shot on sight by Egyptian forces. Just ask all the Jews who lived in Arab countries and are either dead or in Israel because they actually were in reality ethnically cleansed vs. the media side show we hear about from the Palestinians. Google Pallywood sometime to start.

I think you are confusing several different things from nazi hunting to terrorist home destruction. I also think you are naive if you think that many of these people are "innocent." While it is possible to have terrorists, murders, ammunition, rockets, and such in your home by force, it's normally not needed in the places you seem to be implying. I suggest you dig up a history book and you really will see who the victims are. And yes, the Israelis are primarily the victims. They are the ones with citizens living in fear, constant terror attacks, people like you with endless streams of incorrect and malicious rhetoric. Yes, there are also "Palestinians" that are victims. There are unfortunately cases of mistakes, collateral damage, and such. But they are more victims of their leaders who seek to oppress their own people for their own financial and political gains. Whether is direct in using people as human shields or indirect by brain washing and indoctrination of children, it is sick and I pity those people.

As far as money and weapons, you do realize that the enemies of Israel such as Egypt actually receive more US aid. If you are so worldly, you must also know that the Israeli people for a long time have not wanted the majority of the aid, and there is often calls by the government to end it. You would also know that much of the aid was a condition of Israel giving up the Sinai to Egypt, and something they didn't want to do and heavily regret today. In fact the Sinai is now quickly becoming one of the worst terrorist hot beds in the world, and has issues such as human smuggling under Egyptian rule. Additionally, the aforementioned peace with Egypt looks like it may be dissolved by the "democractic" Muslim theocracy that looks like it will seize control of Egypt. I feel sorry for Egyptians for once too.

Finally, if you did some research, you would realize the Israel is indeed one of the most humane armies in the world, if not the most humane with active conflicts. The US has killed far more civilians than Israel ever has, and in Israel's case the term civilian is usually heavily debatable or simply media propaganda (you are not a civilian if you are firing guns or parked in an area that was for 2 days announced it would be bombed/destroyed). Indeed, if you compare the US army to Israel, you will see who looks like the butchers you imply. Also maybe on your line of thinking, I suggest Israel stop giving technology, intelligence, military training, safe ports, protection, and everything else to the US. I am sure the families of US soldiers would thank you for this. And you personally should throw out your cell phone, computer, pretty much anything electronic, etc. because something inside or some piece was either invented or made in Israel.

My country contributes to the world in medical technology and wins nobel prizes in higher percentages than any other country, despite racism on the committees, people like you, tiny size, and wars. What do your so called victims do besides kill women and children on a daily basis? Or for that matter, kill each other. When even talking or doing business with a Jew gets you murdered, I think we can conclude who is the barbarian.

So I suggest you shove your snarky veiled anti-semetic, inaccurate, misinformed comment you know where.

-An Israeli

Re:Retaliatory action? (1)

scharkalvin (72228) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623824)

In addition the same barbarians insist that the holocaust never happened, that it was an invention of Israel. People who spread that kind of lie should have their tongues cut out.

Re:Retaliatory action? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38623898)

Hmmmmm... I wonder what the punishment should be for people that threaten other people about what they say? Let's make it something real nasty!

Re:Retaliatory action? (1)

Forty Two Tenfold (1134125) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623902)

Others spread a different lie. That the 6 million Jews were the only victims of the Holocaust. Never a few million other nationalities systematically murdered and burned or converted to soap.

Re:Retaliatory action? (1)

Forty Two Tenfold (1134125) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623910)

Erratum:

Never mind a few million people of other nationalities[...]

Re:Retaliatory action? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38623854)

Sounds like you see youself as some sort of master race.

Re:Retaliatory action? (5, Informative)

chrb (1083577) | more than 2 years ago | (#38624080)

Secondly, last I recall, citizens in other countries don't fear being blown up, shot, kidnapped, and tortured by Israelis.

Do citizens of Gaza and the West Bank count?

you do realize that the enemies of Israel such as Egypt actually receive more US aid.

Incorrect. Israel gets $3 billion per year. Egypt gets $1.3 billion. Israel has a population of 7.6 million. Egypt has 81 million. So per capita aid is many times higher for Israel.

Re:Retaliatory action? (2)

Fujisawa Sensei (207127) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623312)

That's how Israel normally treats terrorists.

Re:Retaliatory action? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38623316)

No, just bomb the hell out of their country.

Re:Retaliatory action? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38623392)

Mossadcertainly not!

Re:Retaliatory action? (1)

aardvarkjoe (156801) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623466)

What are they going to do, kill him?

Unfortunately -- probably not.

Re:Retaliatory action? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38623654)

No, they will whine like hell and get some support from the USA to bully a whole country because of the actions on a part of the population (this case, one person)

Re:Retaliatory action? (5, Funny)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623666)

Not necessarily. 3/4 of the people whose credit card numbers were stolen refuse to complain, because the thief is charging less on them than their kids were.

They want to contact this guy to see what he can do about their kids cell phone bills.

Re:Retaliatory action? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38623760)

What are they going to do, kill him?

The goal here may not be to kill this hacker, but to inflate the number of people called terrorists, in order to justify all kinds of actions.

Re:Retaliatory action? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38623776)

They should find him and beat the hell out of him, or put them up in a pubic pillory for a few days! Let the public deal with him. That, and do the same to every goddamn hacker who thinks it's cool to screw around with people who have never done him any harm.

Re:Retaliatory action? (1)

Forty Two Tenfold (1134125) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623942)

No, but they sure wish to try. Talk about adequacy...

Re:Retaliatory action? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38624024)

That would be what they do against people they deem terrorists:

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/features/targeted-killings-a-retro-fashion-very-much-in-vogue-1.117714

(+ could show dozens & dozens of other examples, but this is a pretty good overview)

(Most famously in the last year or two, Mahmoud al-Mabhouh and a couple of Iranian nuclear scientists.

Re:Retaliatory action? (1)

rot26 (240034) | more than 2 years ago | (#38624086)

What are they going to do, kill him?

Not as far as you know.

Don't ask about how they're going to "extradite" him either.

The new catch phrase apparently (5, Insightful)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623266)

Just call every crime terrorism.

Sad really, as it 'normalizes' the true acts of terrorism. If everything is labeled terrorism, it becomes 'yet another crime' and is ignored.

Re:The new catch phrase apparently (1)

jamstar7 (694492) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623320)

Just wait til they make jaywalking into 'terrorism'. We'll see summary executions on the streets.

That'll teach you to walk at the crosswalk!

Re:The new catch phrase apparently (1)

badboy_tw2002 (524611) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623500)

Well...it certainly would.

Re:The new catch phrase apparently (2)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623706)

We'll see summary executions on the streets.

Although, this being a money-related crime, the executioners shall be wielding socks stuffed with lots of coins instead of axes.

Re:The new catch phrase apparently (2)

EyelessFade (618151) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623818)

I AM...THE LAW!

Re:The new catch phrase apparently (1)

cshark (673578) | more than 2 years ago | (#38624072)

So by that are you implying that credit card fraud should not be a crime?

Re:The new catch phrase apparently (4, Informative)

Morty (32057) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623334)

They didn't say it is terrorism, they said they would use the same tools as for terrorism. That is, they know it's not terrorism, but think that the same tools would be useful.

Re:The new catch phrase apparently (1, Flamebait)

hedwards (940851) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623438)

I just feel sorry for whomever it is that's living next door to the thieves when Israel overreacts. Israel isn't exactly known for keeping any sort of perspective on things. Kill one of their citizens and they'll kill dozens of your citizens with little to no concern for innocent civilians.

Re:The new catch phrase apparently (1)

DCTech (2545590) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623544)

Just like U.S., then.

Re:The new catch phrase apparently (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623616)

Tel Aviv is basically a borough in New York City, so, yes.

Re:The new catch phrase apparently (4, Informative)

cshark (673578) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623848)

And you obviously don't know or understand anything about the way Israel handles things. Please don't say things like this unless you've had the some education on the subject, please.

The reason it's a big deal out there is because they don't have the kind of laws for consumer protection that we do. Someone steals your credit card, and runs up a $30,000 tab, you pay it... or you go to jail. Period. So think about it this way. If someone effectively bombs your life, by taking your credit card, and shoots you with a debt you cannot pay and the ire of a state that takes debt VERY seriously... how is it not an act of terrorism? That's literally destroying someone's life.

What I'm wondering though, is if this means Israel will start negotiating with credit card thieves, and giving them what they want while getting nothing in return. We'll have to see.

Re:The new catch phrase apparently (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623876)

Clearly the Arabs have been going about this all the wrong way. Instead of buying tanks and planes and firing rockets at Israeli towns, they should just have been stealing credit card numbers.

Re:The new catch phrase apparently (2)

Oswald (235719) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623444)

Well, TFA says the Israelis called these cyber-attacks, "a breach of sovereignty comparable to a terrorist operation, and must be treated as such." That's pretty close to calling it terrorism. Maybe they should pass a law making it "statutory terrorism".

Re:The new catch phrase apparently (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38623640)

Those tools include guns.

Kinetic is The new catch phrase apparently (1)

mjwalshe (1680392) | more than 2 years ago | (#38624100)

Well this is the end game for "cyber war" eventually if you piss of some actor enough they wont just hack back they will go "kinetic" to use the modern term :-)

Its going to suck if your an Arab studying in Mexico at the moment as it has been known for retaliation to get the wrong guy (as was the case in lillehammer)
And given the provenance of the stuxnet hackers rating him out as a spy for the government to the Zetas or los Templarios might be a nastier way of getting him.

Re:The new catch phrase apparently (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38623610)

Well, the USA is doing it too and it works for them. I mean, if you want access to a companies servers, just say they have some info on terrorists, poof, you get a warrantless search, say that guy might have ties with a terrorist cell, poof, phone & email tapping, bank account, GPS tracking, the works, with zero paperwork.

But as long as it's for the children, I agree with them.

Re:The new catch phrase apparently (2)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623742)

Who cares it becomes common ? The goal is to use the legal shortcuts created for terrorism in as many cases as possible.

Re:The new catch phrase apparently (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38623788)

umm what fake passports then?

The founding fathers were "terrorists" (1)

bigsexyjoe (581721) | more than 2 years ago | (#38624078)

At least by the modern definition they were. They committed sabotage against a private corporation to protest something. These days sabotage (and cyber crime) are generally treated as terrorism. Two reasons:

The wealthy and powerful consider destruction of property to be worse than actual violence against humans.

We have made a very convenient category of crime called "terrorism" which exempts us from needing to engage in due process and allows us to slide into Stanford Prison Experiment/Lord of the Flies behavior. Hand and hand with that, we are allowed to dehumanize terrorists. So it is very convenient for us to use this category on anyone, when we want to stop thinking and start smacking down.

New Buzz Word? (1)

wisnoskij (1206448) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623340)

I guess terrorism is now just one more meaningless buzz word.
I imagine that defining the work "terrorist" as "criminal" helps to get around a lot of that unnecessary red tape of the justice system.

The original 0xOmar post on pastebin (4, Insightful)

dmesg0 (1342071) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623344)

Here is an excerpt from 0xOmar's original post on pastebin:

It's first part of our release, my goal is reacing 1 million non-duplicate people, which is 1/6 of Israel's population.

...

What's fun for us?
- Watching 400,000 people gathered in front of Israeli credit card companies and banks, complaining about cards and that they are stolen
- Watching Israeli banks shredding 400,000 credit cards and re-generate new cards (so costly, huh?)
- Watching people purchasing stuff for theirself using the cards and making Israeli credit cards untrustable in the world, like Nigerian credit cards
- and much more...

The alleged goal is to hurt lots of random people without any personal gain. And what is the goal of terrorism?

Re:The original 0xOmar post on pastebin (2, Insightful)

vakuona (788200) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623378)

God forbid that people ever be inconvenienced!

Re:The original 0xOmar post on pastebin (5, Insightful)

tsotha (720379) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623456)

The goal of terrorism is, you now, terror, not "Aw crap, this is going to be a hassle."

Re:The original 0xOmar post on pastebin (1)

dmesg0 (1342071) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623522)

Re:The original 0xOmar post on pastebin (4, Insightful)

tsotha (720379) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623668)

Uh huh. "Cyberterrorism" is a bullshit plea for funding in a post 9/11 political environment. It's not terrorism.

Re:The original 0xOmar post on pastebin (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623576)

The goal of terrorism is, you now, terror, not "Aw crap, this is going to be a hassle."

Neologism: Hasselism. As in committing acts of hasselism. No relationship to David Hasslehoff.

Re:The original 0xOmar post on pastebin (1)

Oswald (235719) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623510)

I think the key here is to decide if your use of "hurt" is appropriate. It conflates financial harm with the kind of physical suffering usually caused by terrorists. Personally, I don't think that's appropriate, but if you do then you would be right to side with the Israeli government on this issue.

Re:The original 0xOmar post on pastebin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38623520)

I thought terrorism was a means of obtaining a goal, and not a goal itself. There doesn't seem to be a goal here (no personal gain as you claim), and I think the credit card information being displayed is causing more frustration and anger than it is terror.

On the other hand, Israel threatening to retaliate to any similar act with force appears to utilize terrorism with the goal of defense.

Just my two cents.

Re:The original 0xOmar post on pastebin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38623548)

If hurting lots of random people without gain is terrorism then is what the worlds banks done better or worse because they did do it for gain?

Re:The original 0xOmar post on pastebin (1)

Lehk228 (705449) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623578)

Terrorism hurts and kills and maims people, you must have an inappropriate love of money to be confusing theft of money and inconvenience purchasing with violence and mayhem

Que the Jew-jokes (1)

The Creator (4611) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623998)

you must have an inappropriate love of money

Har har.

Re:The original 0xOmar post on pastebin (1)

cshark (673578) | more than 2 years ago | (#38624090)

Credit card fraud hurts and maims people in Israel, and any country where debters prisons exist.

Re:The original 0xOmar post on pastebin (1)

Spliffster (755587) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623590)

The guy, indeed, claims to have stolen 400'000 CC Numbers and not just 6'000 as mentioned in TFS:
http://pastebin.com/13nJQQ9p [pastebin.com]

Re:The original 0xOmar post on pastebin (5, Insightful)

10101001 10101001 (732688) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623710)

The alleged goal is to hurt lots of random people without any personal gain.

Read those lines carefully. The goals seems more than anything to hurt Israeli banks. That may or may not be for personal gain--one can presumably play the money market towards that end. The fact that lots of random people are hurt is an indirect consequence, not the objective goal.

And what is the goal of terrorism?

"the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes." Now, if the above is an attempt to cause Israel harm through its banks or to change the banking system through political acts...but even then, there's no violence involved and while the suggested interpretation of resulting events from the leak are intimidating and coercive, the fact that they're actually releasing the credit card details make it more than just a threat. So, no, overall, I'd guess the term you're looking for is the term "asshole". Sure, terrorists might be assholes, but not all assholes are terrorists.

If anything, this sounds like a case of (a) if all you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail--and Israel sure likes it anti-terrorism hammer--and (b) just another example of political corruption where instead of punishing the banks for somehow fucking up so badly that the information was leaked online and calling for their heads (figuratively) they're more interested in calling for the heads (literally) of the people who exposed just how fucked up securing that data was--an act that is ultimately self-defeating if it were meant to protect those random people who are hurt as instead of using the opportunity for a very public, open expose on the issues with the banking system as a justification to fix those problems they've chosen to focused on attacking the messengers (evil bastards that they are) and leaving tons of other crooks to do the same thing in secret (although I guess Israel could always send its secret police into other countries to execute the crooks, but they can't advertise that as a deterrent, so that rather counters the whole idea that this is more a symbolic thing to draw attention to avoid future breaches).

In short, this is why calling everything terrorism is fucked up. It solves nothing, blurs the evil that terrorism is, and demonstrates how beholden governments are to their people: those (people and organizations) with money and not the average person.

PS - This doesn't mean I don't think the leakers shouldn't be punished both for the breach and the leak. But that doesn't justify any claim of terrorism nor the focus on the leakers seemingly over and above those that allowed the leak. Either Israeli banks are secure or they are not. If they're not--which seems to be demonstrated--and one's whole country is dependent upon them, I'd be more upset and focused on them failing in their duty than the countless evil or assholic people in the world who would exploit such businesses. I mean, there's an implied fraud given the reasonable expectations of what a bank is supposed to be, a firm that will securely hold your money; it's harder to be upset at the child/man/bastard who shows everyone the emperor wears no clothes.

Re:The original 0xOmar post on pastebin (1)

Hentes (2461350) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623834)

So causing inconvenience is now on equal ground with murder? And a sin is much worse when the assailant gains nothing from it?

Re:The original 0xOmar post on pastebin (1)

chrb (1083577) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623856)

The goal of terrorism is to effect geopolitical change by making people experience terror. If this hacker has geopolitical goals and the Israelis are terrified by his actions, then he is a terrorist. But it seems unlikely that having credit card details stolen would make a person feel terror.

Re:The original 0xOmar post on pastebin (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623896)

By that standard, 'Global Warming' alarmists would be terrorists.

Re:The original 0xOmar post on pastebin (1)

lexman098 (1983842) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623938)

Yeah "hurting" is not really hurting though. It's a shitty thing to do, but no one will be in physical danger as a direct result.

Finally (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38623404)

The only way to deal with foreign hackers and thieves is to order the Mossad to start assassinating some of these punks and their families.

The word "Terrorism" now has a whole new meaning (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38623426)

In no way am I condoning credit card theft, which is a crime and should be dealt with as such, but the current trend of labelling every crime or infraction as "terrorism" is somewhat disturbing. How long will it be before minor infractions such as speeding or jaywalking become "terrorism"?

YeYe (3, Insightful)

wzzzzrd (886091) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623430)

And in 3 years from now every western government will treat everything as it would terrorism.

Film at 11.

Awwww, poor guy. (2)

tsotha (720379) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623432)

If he's strangled by a hotel maid we'll know what happened.

Not that I'll, you know, shed a tear.

Not News (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38623450)

when you consider they will run over and kill a collage age protester with a bulldozer.

This is not theft (4, Insightful)

u17 (1730558) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623490)

The original owners did not lose their credit card numbers. Therefore it's not theft, it's unauthorised copying! I'm surprised that this is pointed out so many times under articles about file sharing, but not in cases like this.

Re:This is not theft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38623558)

Because it's obvious, and the important thing is not that someone else has your credit card number but they use it to steal your money.

Re:This is not theft (1)

fragreaper (1043904) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623656)

The original owners did not lose their credit card numbers. Therefore it's not theft, it's unauthorised copying! I'm surprised that this is pointed out so many times under articles about file sharing, but not in cases like this.

It depends on what legal definition of theft you take. In the British legal system Oxford v Moss established that copying information without physically taking the physical media is not theft. However there is the principle in R v Beecham shows that once the 'value' or 'virtue' of something is gone, even if you return it, you may have committed theft since the property is no longer of use to the owner. So copying a CD, the value of the original item still has it's value. If I take your credit card out of your wallet, post the details on here and then return it, it is now essentially useless to you as a credit card. Now defining appropriation in the context of cyber crime is even more of a headache...

True terrorism (5, Funny)

formfeed (703859) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623506)

True terrorism is a criminal act that terrorizes beyond the actual incident. In my opinion, these things should also be added to that list:
High school mobbing.
Tail gating drivers.
The NY Yankees.
Clowns.

Re:True terrorism (1)

game kid (805301) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623862)

Don't forget DRM, foreclosures, high school*, and Atari 2600 graphics.

*That's not already on the list. Read carefully.

Re:True terrorism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38624014)

US Congress

Run to the USA to fund the murder of the purps? (-1, Troll)

dutchwhizzman (817898) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623560)

The average Israeli gets more USA federal tax dollars spent on them than the average USA citizen. That makes Israel one of the most expensive (non)states of the USA.

The reputation of the Mossad for sloppy killings of "Israeli enemies of state" is renown. Maybe the French secret service and the CIA can rival them, but given the size of the country, their annual income (not counting the USA funding) from their own economy and natural resources, they probably have the most murderous secret service of all. It could be the KGB used to be that, but since the demise of the USSR, they lost that dubious honor.

Re:Run to the USA to fund the murder of the purps? (5, Informative)

bored_engineer (951004) | more than 2 years ago | (#38624104)

The average Israeli gets more USA federal tax dollars spent on them than the average USA citizen.

Can you support this? I went looking, and it seems that Israel receives about $3,000,000,000 in aid. With a population of about 7.8 million people, this works out to less than $400/person.

This page [cbpp.org] , the 2011 federal budget was about $3.5E12. If you focus on the social programs, retirement benefits and highway spending, then these account for about 68% of the federal budget. Dividing this total by a population of about 310 million people, I arrive at a total spending figure of about $7,700 per US citizen.

I've double-checked everything and can't see where I've made a mistake, other than in the arbitrary decision to exclude all defense, research and interest payments.

they asked for this comment (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38623596)

Wellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll what ya think people....ONLY A JEW WOULD CONSIDER THEFT OF MONEY TERRORISM.

Not News (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38623602)

when you consider they will run over and kill collage age protester with a bulldozer.

Like they handle terrorists... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38623614)

...so they'll bomb a whole block of houses where the credit card thief lives with a collateral damage of say 50 civilians?

Re:Like they handle terrorists... (1)

cshark (673578) | more than 2 years ago | (#38624114)

And then they'll negotiate with the credit card theif for years with constant interference from the US, give them the neighborhood they happen to live in at the time, and get nothing in return. Yeah, sounds like Israel to me.

Hey look (0)

Karl Cocknozzle (514413) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623646)

One more reason to believe Israel's government has absolutely lost its mind. This is what happens when the right-wing loons get control of the government, military, and intelligence agencies.

Re:Hey look (0)

EnsilZah (575600) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623868)

It's my impression that the leaders of the military and intelligence agencies are actually quite reasonable, other than all the funds they try to get for their respective organizations, It's the politicians that do all the demagoguery.
The recently retired head of the Mossad Meir Dagan actually was interviewed calling out Netanyahu and Barak on all the bullshit posturing against Iran.

a lot of crimes are terrorism... (1)

joren02 (2131408) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623720)

...when they are done on a massive scale. But things like murder, theft, destruction of property,... are no acts if terrorism on their own, and to say they are is just ridiculous. Plus as already pointed out, you can't just call everything an act of terrorism just because it happens a lot. This way some lonely thug who steals one or a few credit cards will instantly be labeled a terrorist. The only thing they should do at the maximum is call a specific event an act of terrorism and everyone involved in that event can be labeled as terrorist.

way to not screw around (1)

KingAlanI (1270538) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623722)

way to not screw around.

Don't get on any elevators with tennis players (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38623958)

Dead credit card scammers now? I am shocked and appalled.

Identity thief shoud be a capital crime. (0)

scharkalvin (72228) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623756)

I say by stealing someone's identity you've stolen their life .... so if convicted you should lose yours. Literally.

Re:Identity thief shoud be a capital crime. (1)

biodata (1981610) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623932)

Except this is not true. They still have their life, it is just less convenient than previously, hence it has not been stolen.

terrorism? (1)

Dr Max (1696200) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623766)

What do they mean, is mossad going to start conducting credit card fraud themselves in foreign countries?

Israel bombing Palestinians for credit card fraud? (1)

leftie (667677) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623880)

Israel gonna flatten Gaza Strip every time some Isreali gets their credit card swiped?

The actual original article (1)

Octorian (14086) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623892)

This is the original article that the linked articles are attempting to paraphrase:
Israel vows to hit back after credit cards hacked [haaretz.com]

While it doesn't add too much information, it might have slightly better wording.

After all the advancements in cryptography (2)

StripedCow (776465) | more than 2 years ago | (#38623950)

we still have an effectively broken payment system, and instead of fixing it, they are going after the symptoms...

So are they going to kill moroccan waiters again? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38624026)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair

In case his side of the story isn't out there (1)

koan (80826) | more than 2 years ago | (#38624084)

Another (possibly real) treat from Pasetbin.com
http://pastebin.com/13nJQQ9p [pastebin.com]

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