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2011's Fastest Growing Language: Objective-C

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the language-war-ammo dept.

Programming 356

mikejuk writes "Every January, it is traditional to compare the state of programming language usage as indicated by the TIOBE index. So what's up and what's down this year? The top language is still Java, but it's slowly falling in the percentages. Objective-C experienced the most growth, followed by C# and C. JavaScript climbed back into the top 10, displacing Ruby. Python and PHP experienced the biggest drops. If you like outside runners, then cheer for Lua and R, which have just entered the top 20. However, I have to wonder why Logo is in the top 20 as well. I know programming education is becoming important, but Logo?"

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Objective-C growth (5, Interesting)

bonch (38532) | more than 2 years ago | (#38691682)

Objective-C's growth in popularity coincides with the Flurry Analytics study [flurry.com] that showed most mobile developers targeting iOS, with support for Android dropping by a third over 2011. C# will probably continue to see increasing interest because of WinRT. Lua is unsurprising because of its popular use in games, and they just released 5.2 [lua.org] last December. What I find most interesting is that plain old C is set to overtake Java.

Of course, if you don't take the Tiobe rankings seriously [timbunce.org] , than all of this is moot, but I guess it's something to talk about on a Friday.

Slashdot conversation hijacking (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38691750)

Have you ever noticed that people can sorta hijack Slashdot threads by simply posting a reply to the first post? This makes them the irrevocable second post in the thread.

To show your appreciation of this "feature," please reply to this post with something completely different.

Re:Slashdot conversation hijacking (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38691876)

Well, never mind all that, #38691750. This has nothing to do with this thread, but would you just listen to me for a little bit? See, I went to the local Yoshinoya today. Right. Yoshinoya. And the damn place was packed so full of people, I couldn't even find a seat. So I looked around a bit, and I found a sign that said "150 yen off". What the hell is wrong with you people? Are you idiots or something? Any other day you wouldn't even think of going to Yoshinoya, but if it's 150 yen off, you all flock in here? It's just 150 fucking yen! 150 yen! And you're brining the kids too. Look at that, a family of four going to Yoshinoya. Con-fucking-gratulations. And now the guy's going, "All right! Daddy's going to order the extra-large!" Shit, I can't watch any more of this.

Yoshinoya should be fucking brutal. Two guys sit facing each other across a U-shaped table, and you never quite know if they'll suddenly just start a fight right there. It's stab-or-be-stabbed, and that's what so damn great about the place. Women and kids should stay the fuck away.

Well, I finally found a seat, but then the guy next to me goes, "I'll have a large bowl with extra gravy!". So now I'm pissed off again. Who the fuck orders extra gravy these days? Why are you looking so goddamn proud when you say that? I was gonna ask you, are you really going to fucking eat all that gravy? I wanted to fucking interrogate you. For about a fucking hour. You know what? I think you just wanted to say "extra gravy".

Now, take it from a Yoshinoya veteran. The latest thing among the Yoshinoya pros is this: Extra green onions. That's the ticket. A large bowl with extra onions, and egg. This is what someone who knows his shit orders. They put in more onions, and less meat. A large bowl with the raw egg, that's really fucking awesome. Now, you should know, if you keep ordering this, there's a risk employees might write you up. This really is a double-edged sword. I really can't recommend this for amateurs.

And you, #38691750, well, you should really just stick to today's special.

Re:Slashdot conversation hijacking (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38692140)

Attention Galestar [slashdot.org] /NicknameOne [slashdot.org] /flurp [slashdot.org] :

The "feature" isn't gonna work if you get yourself modded below the default threshold, kiddo.

Re:Objective-C growth (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692012)

C# will probably continue to see increasing interest because of WinRT.

Given that WinRT offers a choice of C++, C#/VB and JS, isn't not really a given.

Re:Objective-C growth (4, Insightful)

Joce640k (829181) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692484)

If all that index does is count web pages that mention a language then isn't it more likely to be a measure of how many problems people are having with a language? Languages which "just work" would get fewer hits than those which don't.

C# (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38691718)

How is the real story not that C# is 3rd up from 6th!

Re:C# (3, Interesting)

antitithenai (2552442) | more than 2 years ago | (#38691740)

I suspect that both C# and Objective-C market share will only continue - probably even taking the top spots. Windows Phone 7 uses mainly C# and so will Metro apps on Windows 8. Frankly, it is a really good language and beautiful to work with. Likewise Objective-C is strong because of iOS and OS X. Java is slowly dropping from enterprise usage and is being replaced by C#.

Re:C# (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38691794)

I suspect that both C# and Objective-C market share will only continue - probably even taking the top spots. Windows Phone 7 uses mainly C# and so will Metro apps on Windows 8. Frankly, it is a really good language and beautiful to work with. Likewise Objective-C is strong because of iOS and OS X. Java is slowly dropping from enterprise usage and is being replaced by C#.

If Metro apps are your argument, then surely JavaScript will be #1 in no time (as it rightfully should be.)

Re:C# (1)

PhrostyMcByte (589271) | more than 2 years ago | (#38691826)

Windows 8 Metro apps will use C++, C#, or HTML5/JavaScript. I suspect HTML5 will get the largest use, though I'm sure C# will be a close second.

Re:C# (4, Insightful)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 2 years ago | (#38691898)

So the rosy future of software development directed and controlled by Microsoft and Apple? Awesome. I'm sure that will work out well for all involved.

Re:C# (1)

epyT-R (613989) | more than 2 years ago | (#38691970)

yes about as well as the political duopoly has for the US. can't wait!

Re:C# (5, Insightful)

samkass (174571) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692014)

I suspect that both C# and Objective-C market share will only continue - probably even taking the top spots. Windows Phone 7 uses mainly C# and so will Metro apps on Windows 8. Frankly, it is a really good language and beautiful to work with. Likewise Objective-C is strong because of iOS and OS X. Java is slowly dropping from enterprise usage and is being replaced by C#.

Your argument about C# is spot-on on the client side, but I have yet to see any significant movement from Java to C# on the enterprise side. If anything, enterprises are continuing to build larger and larger installed bases of Java software that's further locking them in. In addition, I see a general distrust of Mono and a liking for Linux that biases them against C#.

Re:C# (1)

idontgno (624372) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692118)

I suspect your observation about the enterprise space is valid (and somewhat agrees with my observations in government/military enterprise deployments). However, the shift in percentages probably isn't based in migrations in existing deployments, enterprise or otherwise. Instead, I suspect that the overall space is becoming dominated by mobile devices, driving up the use numbers of the languages in that arena while other endeavors hold mostly stagnant. Hence, the shift in percentages.

Just a theory.

Re:C# (5, Interesting)

Bryan-10021 (223345) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692144)

Java is slowly dropping from enterprise usage and is being replaced by C#.

Really? Show me where C# is slowly replacing Java in the enterprise? On the server side Java has no competition. If C# is replacing Java then that would mean companies are also replacing UNIX with Windows as it's the only platform that supports C# (forget Mono). That's definitely not happening.

Re:C# (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38692148)

How is the real story not that C# is 3rd up from 6th!

Check out the graph later down the article. While C# is up a bit, PHP only because PHP fell fast. Also, if C++ hadn't lost ground. C# wouldn't have passed it either. Objective-C passed a number of rising languages. It's absolute gain (I hate relative gains) over the last few years is pretty amazing. If that trend continues another year, Objective-C will pass C# too.

Re:C# (1, Insightful)

JoeMerchant (803320) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692342)

Interesting how both Objective C and C# are walled garden languages - sure, they're both "open" but in reality, you use them inside walled gardens.

Poor Scala (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38691722)

Has fallen out of even the top 50. Good riddance.

Objective C (5, Funny)

aahpandasrun (948239) | more than 2 years ago | (#38691724)

Objective C is only popular because iOS requires it. It's like reporting that orange jumpsuits are the hot fashion trend in prison.

Re:Objective C (4, Insightful)

antitithenai (2552442) | more than 2 years ago | (#38691754)

Which doesn't change the fact at all, and only shows the importance of iOS.

Re:Objective C (5, Insightful)

SpinyNorman (33776) | more than 2 years ago | (#38691800)

Of course it changes the facts - it's not Objective-C that's popular - it's the iPhone that's popular. If the language itself was popular then we'd see it being used where it was a choice, not a necessity.

Re:Objective C (4, Insightful)

DanTheStone (1212500) | more than 2 years ago | (#38691828)

Different definition of popular. This is using it in the "most used" sense, not the "most liked" sense.

Re:Objective C (5, Funny)

GuldKalle (1065310) | more than 2 years ago | (#38691938)

Were you popular in school?

Re:Objective C (4, Funny)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 2 years ago | (#38691960)

Are you new here?

Re:Objective C (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38692040)

you must've been, as popular people never learn to not use fallacies as they've always had the majority backing their play (argumentum ad populum).

Re:Objective C (1)

Sunshinerat (1114191) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692132)

Yes, as a punch bag.

Re:Objective C (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38692454)

At least you learned a trade.

Re:Objective C (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38691954)

Popularity is about how much people like something, not about how much people are forced to use something. Then again, the focus of the artile is about the most searched programming language on the internet last year, whatever the reason for that is, be it popularity, necesity or some other reason.

Re:Objective C (1)

antitithenai (2552442) | more than 2 years ago | (#38691984)

Popular isn't necessarily how much people like something. For example not that many actually likes the "popular" girl or guy in school, there's just other contributing factors, like themselves getting something out of it. Just like with Objective-C and iOS.

Re:Objective C (1)

SpinyNorman (33776) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692270)

I'm not so sure...

All I can see on the TIOBE site is:

The TIOBE Programming Community index is an indicator of the popularity of programming languages.

followed by:

The index can be used to check whether your programming skills are still up to date or to make a strategic decision about what programming language should be adopted when starting to build a new software system

It seems that the "popularity" they are trying to measure is one that infers some merit (i.e. popular by considered choice) to the more popular languages, otherwise using this measure to choose a language for a new project doesn't make much sense. Similarly a language isn't going to be widely useful as a career skill if it's only being used on a niche platform, so it would seem that they are expecting their popularity to be measuring breadth of use (presumably due to merit), not depth of use on a single platform (which speaks for itself).

Re:Objective C (1)

JoeMerchant (803320) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692404)

Different definition of popular. This is using it in the "most used" sense, not the "most liked" sense.

I'd say "most used" not "most useful," which sounds good but is a little off-target on the meaning. For a meaning targeted pair, I'd go with "most used" not "most efficient," or even better "most used" not "most universally applicable."

Liked is a subjective opinion, Objective-C and C# are objectively less portable than C++.

Re:Objective C (2)

Toe, The (545098) | more than 2 years ago | (#38691850)

Sometimes a statistic is used to show trends in other areas.

For example, yes, iOS is popular with users. However, the fact that the programming language used for it is growing indicates that it is popular with programmers. That's different, and at least a little bit notable. Not only for nerds thinking about what to program in, but also for industry watchers: developer support is very important to a platform.

Re:Objective C (2)

SpryGuy (206254) | more than 2 years ago | (#38691998)

In this case, I think it's solely driven by iDevices. If the iPhone and iPad were to suddenly tank in the market, I believe you'd see Objective-C usage tank right along with it. Objective-C isn't the reason they're popular. It's just the only choice developers have to code for a popular platform.

Meanwhile, something like C# is actually pleasurable, and I think would see increasing usage even if WP7 tanks (heck, it's barely a blip in usage as it is right now). C# in some form or another is available on non-MS platforms too, and is used there. Obviously MS drives C# adoption with the popularity of their Windows platform, but I think there's a subtle difference in that C# is really nice... (you have MANY options when coding for Windows). Objective-C is just the only choice.

Re:Objective C (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692236)

Maybe you should learn teh differences between facts and opinion.
If Windows tanked it would take C# with it. Yes I know about Mono but it is just a blip.

Re:Objective C (0, Offtopic)

bonch (38532) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692042)

Who are you to claim that Objective-C is not popular? Have you surveyed every developer in the world to ask them about this? That's a pretty huge presumption on your part when you don't provide evidence either way.

Re:Objective C (1)

gtbritishskull (1435843) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692398)

On what platforms do people code in Objective C besides an ipod/pad/mac/ect?

Re:Objective C (4, Informative)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692214)

Actually IOS does allow you to develop in C++ if you want.
http://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/11079/objective-c-or-c-for-ios-games [stackexchange.com]
and here
http://iphonedevelopertips.com/cpp/c-on-iphone-part-1.html [iphonedevelopertips.com]
for examples.
To be honest I have worked in C++ and Objective-C and I like Objective-C better. When I work on Windows or Linux I use C++ because that is the better supported language on those platforms. On IOS I use Objective C.

Re:Objective C (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38692242)

I'd add that this becomes particularly relevant if you consider the restrictions Apple places on what developers can use and what they can't.

Maybe that's what you meant, but it's important to keep in mind that if you want to develop for Apple, they won't let you use whatever language you choose, even if it were technically possible. The orange jumpsuit in prison analogy is pretty apt in this regard.

Re:Objective C (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38692346)

I was Mac developer before the switch to OSX. I took the Java route over Objective-C and a few years back started learning Objective-C because I wanted to learn iOS. At first it was painful, but within weeks I was pretty productive and now working on an app that would expose part of our Java app to be accessible as an iPhone app. I am actually starting to like Objective-C quite a bit. Once you get over the odd syntax, the framework is very powerful.

Re:Objective C (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38691890)

Until people realize that iDevices actually suck and that they don't make you as hip as the commercials would have you believe.

Thou shalt distribute applications through the store (once approved)
Thou shalt re-write the applications when iOS 5 is released (because we decided that access to Device Unique Identifier needs to go away)
Thou shalt pay $99 annually for the privilege of being a developer

Objective-C sucks monkey ass, and so does iOS!

Re:Objective C (3, Funny)

SQLz (564901) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692008)

Is $99 some kind of large amount of money? What is that like a week of brown bagging your lunch?

Re:Objective C (1)

anyGould (1295481) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692086)

Thou shalt re-write the applications when iOS 5 is released (because we decided that access to Device Unique Identifier needs to go away)

Considering that the Device Unique Identifier was becoming a popular vector for spyware, I'm perfectly happy that it's going away.

Re:Objective C (1)

kvvbassboy (2010962) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692362)

I think his point is that the popularity of Objective-C relies heavily on the success of iOS platform. What would really make a language popular, if people "forked" it from its initially intended usage, and ported it to other platforms or application domains. Objective C is too single-dimensional to make everyone consider learning/using it, unlike some other languages.

Moderators? (1, Offtopic)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | more than 2 years ago | (#38691760)

Why was this modded funny? This is the truth -- obj-C is popular because of iOS, not because it is some kind of programming language panacea.

Re:Moderators? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38691802)

It's funny because the analogy is funny. Was it really that hard to figure that out?

Re:Moderators? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38691834)

It's like reporting that orange jumpsuits are the hot fashion trend in prison.

Probably because of this part.

Does it matter how it's popular? (1)

nobodyman (90587) | more than 2 years ago | (#38691958)

I'm not sure I understand how it matters why it's popular. The index isn't a listing of strictly general purpose programming language.

Re:Moderators? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38691996)

I wrote years of C, C++ and C# before learning Obj-c and now I'm starting projects in Obj-c (not related to iOS) simply because I like it more than the others. Nothing of importance (pet projects), but years ago I would have used Python or Ruby for those. It feels somehow more fun to program in (yeah, crazy talk).

Re:Moderators? (2)

iluvcapra (782887) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692206)

No language is popular because of the features. Languages are attributes of platforms, people write for platforms. Even platforms that support multiple languages, like iOS and the WinRT, have a "favorite" language where the documentation is most focused, and people will write for whichever language is the most documented.

Re:Objective C (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38691786)

Actually, that would be the case if the news was "Objective-C is the most popular language for iOS development". If orange jumpsuits would be one of the most used form of clothing everywhere because they are used in prison, well, that would be newsworthy...

Re:Objective C (2)

VGPowerlord (621254) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692240)

Actually, that would be the case if the news was "Objective-C is the most popular language for iOS development". If orange jumpsuits would be one of the most used form of clothing everywhere because they are used in prison, well, that would be newsworthy...

A more apt analogy would be that orange jumpsuits are the clothing item with the biggest increase in sales (to the government obviously) in America because we're sending more people to prison.

Re:Objective C (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38691824)

And on that note, it really shouldn't be called "Objective-C" but rather "Apple's bastardized take on Objective-C."

Ever tried to port code written for Mac OS X to GNUstep? You'll rapidly discover that the Objective-C that GCC uses isn't the Objective-C that Apple pulled from their ass.

Which stops being funny when you discover that Apple used GCC for their compiler (they've since replaced it with closed proprietary shit), and never bothered to contribute their version of Objective-C back.

Re:Objective C (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38691872)

And on that note, it really shouldn't be called "Objective-C" but rather "Apple's bastardized take on Objective-C."

Objective-C is what ever Apple says it is since they for all intents and purposes owns it. They are only only people that make an Objective C compiler so they get to define the language.

Re:Objective C (4, Informative)

Goaway (82658) | more than 2 years ago | (#38691888)

Even GNUstep considers Apple's implementation the official one, and they try to follow it as closely as they can.

When you run into problems porting, it is because GNUstep is lagging behind.

Re:Objective C (1)

The End Of Days (1243248) | more than 2 years ago | (#38691914)

(they've since replaced it with closed proprietary shit)

Let's not lie [llvm.org] .

Re:Objective C (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38692010)

Yes, let's not, and point out that clang is BSD licensed.

Which means that Apple's version will never see the light of day. Don't forget that the Darwin kernel is open source, but the version Apple actually uses most certainly isn't and the majority of Mac OS X is proprietary shit.

The exact same thing holds true for their "Objective-C" compiler. It may have had its roots in open source, but under Apple it most certainly is not now and never will be again.

So I stand 100% by calling Apple's compiler proprietary shit.

Re:Objective C (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38692142)

What does the license even matter? You claimed that Apple violated the GPL with with GCC in any case (without proof, I note.)

The real problem is that the Objective-C implementation in GCC was sorta-kinda related to the spec and allowed all sorts of things it shouldn't have, on top of being slow and not nearly as amenable to tooling as Clang-LLVM. Apple said "enough is enough" and put together a project that looks to the future, not the past.

Re:Objective C (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38692146)

Yes, let's not, and point out that clang is BSD licensed.

http://llvm.org/svn/llvm-project/cfe/trunk/LICENSE.TXT

The exact same thing holds true for their "Objective-C" compiler. It may have had its roots in open source, but under Apple it most certainly is not now and never will be again.

If clang started as open source that apple made proprietor, then why is the very first commit from Apple? http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/pipermail/cfe-commits/2007-July/000000.html
And why is the newest feature to come to Objective C being actively worked on Top of Tree by an apple employe. http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/pipermail/cfe-commits/Week-of-Mon-20120109/051009.html

So I stand 100% by calling Apple's compiler proprietary shit.

Nope you stand 100% full of shit.

Re:Objective C (3, Informative)

0100010001010011 (652467) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692204)

Which means that Apple's version will never see the light of day.

Um. You mean the version that I downloaded with XCode?

Re:Objective C (3, Insightful)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692050)

And on that note, it really shouldn't be called "Objective-C" but rather "Apple's bastardized take on Objective-C."

Obj-C is a proprietary language, in a sense that it is unilaterally defined by a single entity. Said entity in this case was Stepstone, then NeXT, and now Apple. There's no ANSI or ISO Obj-C, nor any other standard, outside of the language spec that Apple publishes. So it's kinda silly to blame them for not toeing the line. If anything, you should blame GNUstep for not keeping up.

Re:Objective C (5, Insightful)

VGPowerlord (621254) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692330)

And on that note, it really shouldn't be called "Objective-C" but rather "Apple's bastardized take on Objective-C."

Obj-C is a proprietary language, in a sense that it is unilaterally defined by a single entity. Said entity in this case was Stepstone, then NeXT, and now Apple. There's no ANSI or ISO Obj-C, nor any other standard, outside of the language spec that Apple publishes. So it's kinda silly to blame them for not toeing the line. If anything, you should blame GNUstep for not keeping up.

Incidentally, this also applies to just about every language on the list other than C.

Just to name a few: Java (Oracle), C# (Microsoft), JavaScript (Mozilla nee Netscape), PHP (The PHP Group), Ruby (Yukihiro Matsumoto), Python (Guido van Rossum)...

Re:Objective C (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692424)

JavaScript on that list should arguably be EcmaScript, and that one is taken care of by ECMA these days.

C# is neither here nor there - it has an ISO standard, but in practice it's still designed by MS, and the spec is updated to match the most recent VC# release with a few minor exceptions, and even then not quite regularly (last I heard they are still working on an updated ECMA spec for C# 4, which would then take more time to get ISO stamp of approval). So it's proprietary in practice, but you still can take the spec and compare it vs what the compiler actually does (and there are some things that VC# does wrong, like being able to cast int[] to uint[] when the spec says you should get InvalidCastException).

Re:Objective C (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38692116)

What a lot of shit you talk. Not only do Apple release source code for their compiler but they have a new one (which is again open source) in the form of Clang/LLVM to replace the ageing GCC. Also, since NeXT/Apple are the only real user of Obj-C surely they have the right to improve/change it as they see fit?

Re:Objective C (4, Insightful)

nobodyman (90587) | more than 2 years ago | (#38691860)

Actually that's not even remotely true. You always had option of using C and C++ in addition to Objective C, and ever since apple removed the language restriction you can use whatever language you wish so long as it compiles to native code, resides in the app bundle, and doesn't use undocumented API calls. In fact many games are written in C# using monotouch.

But even if your statement was correct, I'm not sure it's relevant. There are lots of environments that *require* Java development, so do we then apply some sort of negative weighting to it's rank on the TIOBE index? If it's popular it's popular.

Re:Objective C (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692070)

Actually that's not even remotely true. You always had option of using C and C++ in addition to Objective C

You can use vanilla C or C++ for your own code, but all iOS APIs are Obj-C, so you necessarily need to know the language enough to at least work with those.

But even if your statement was correct, I'm not sure it's relevant. There are lots of environments that *require* Java development, so do we then apply some sort of negative weighting to it's rank on the TIOBE index? If it's popular it's popular.

I think GP's point was that it being popular doesn't mean that it's good.

(which is, of course, also true of Java and many other languages in TCPI)

Re:Objective C (1)

Timbo (75953) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692120)

If you substitute 'uses' for 'requires', the GP is quite correct. It's not like there has been a mass adoption of the language because of the merits of the language itself.

Re:Objective C (1)

nobodyman (90587) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692446)

Well hell, so long as we're substituting words, I choose to replace the word "correct" with "high" in your previous statement ;-)

Re:Objective C (1)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692184)

Objective C is only popular because iOS requires it. It's like reporting that orange jumpsuits are the hot fashion trend in prison.

Explains C#.

Re:Objective C (1)

JonySuede (1908576) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692412)

C# is Java done right without the legacy crap, it is a nice language to develop in but it's Windows-centricity is a big turn off...

BBBBBBOOOOGGGGGUUUUUSSSSSS +1, Credible (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38691752)

Two words: Big Brother (tm)

Incorrect (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38691780)

Any language that was created in 2011 experienced more growth.
An infinite percentage of growth to be exact

"Objective-C will be the next big language." (4, Funny)

Sebastopol (189276) | more than 2 years ago | (#38691820)

My IT friend in 1993.

Time to find him on facebook.

From 0 to 1 user equals infinite growth. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38691842)

Fastest growing language is the one you invent yourself.

The top 20 (5, Informative)

danbob999 (2490674) | more than 2 years ago | (#38691854)

Java
                C
                C#
                C++
                Objective-C
                PHP
                (Visual)
                Python
                Perl
                JavaScript
                Delphi/Object
                Ruby
                Lisp
                Pascal
                Transact-SQL
                PL/SQL
                Ada
                Logo
                R
                Lua

Re:The top 20 (5, Interesting)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692232)

Cheers for R! I didn't expect to see a statistical programming environment on this list, but I'm not surprised either. R is getting really big in bioinformatics, which is a burgeoning field right now. I used R myself more often in 2011 than in any previous year, and I'm sure I'll use it more this year. If you use Excel, especially if you use macros or VBscript, you should give R a look. Steeper learning curve, but far more powerful and rewarding.

Re:The top 20 (1)

Trogre (513942) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692408)

Dammit where's bash in that list?

(grumpy sysadmin here)

Notes on the trends. (4, Interesting)

Animats (122034) | more than 2 years ago | (#38691892)

Interesting. Objective-C up (presumably because of iPhone usage), C# passes C++, and Python in a screaming dive.

The languages that are on the way down suffer from mismanagement. The C++ committee went off into template la-la land years ago, focusing on features used by few and used well by fewer. Python had a "Perl 6" experience - von Rossum pushed the language to Python 3, which is only marginally better, no faster, and incompatible. That seems to have hurt the language's market share.

The languages on the way up are rather similar. They're strongly and explicitly typed, compilable, memory-safe (mostly), and have garbage collection. That describes Java, C#, and Objective-C, and even Delphi. The only exception on the way up is Javascript, which has progressed from being an awful language to a pervasive although mediocre one. Javascript does have the advantage of fast implementations, unlike Perl and Python.

These stats, of course, are based on what people are blithering about on blogs, not what's implemented in them.

Re:Notes on the trends. (2)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692084)

I mostly agree, but... Delphi has garbage collection? since when?

Re:Notes on the trends. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38692172)

Since forever....

Re:Notes on the trends. (2)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692268)

Last time I looked at it - which was, admittedly, Delphi 7, sometime around 2004 - you had to explicitly call Destroy on objects to release memory. You also got refcounting if you derived from TInterfacedObject, but only for interface-typed references. And you had refcounting with COW for strings.

That's nowhere even close to a GC.

Re:Notes on the trends. (3, Interesting)

jd (1658) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692100)

C didn't gain any ranks but it did gain in the ratings, so two exceptions. If I'm reading the long-term trends correctly, the more potent languages suffered some at the hands of Visual Basic but as VB has died they have recovered. C++ is doing very badly on the long-term trends - that's not merely a product of templates, it would seem to me that it indicates something more serious. Python's usage in the longer-term trends seems to have stabilized, along with a couple of other languages, with most having falling usage. To me, that suggests more hybridization at least in the fields (mostly teaching) that this survey covers - people aren't using one-size-fits-all languages as much, opting for limited use of languages in specialized areas.

Re:Notes on the trends. (1)

KDR_11k (778916) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692188)

C had an increase in market share as well even though that didn't improve its rank.

Re:Notes on the trends. (1)

19thNervousBreakdown (768619) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692392)

I have a very hard time classifying Objective-C as strongly-typed--no matter how much everyone says it is, it programs like any other weakly-typed language due in large part to the fact that all of its built-in collections are collections of ids, and a large portion (the majority? seems that way when I'm working with it, don't know actual #s) of the framework functions operate only on id. And its primary deployment (iOS) isn't garbage-collected.

Logo (4, Interesting)

LateArthurDent (1403947) | more than 2 years ago | (#38691946)

I've seen logo used a lot in multi-agent systems research. It just lends itself well to that, with every turtle being an agent.

Interesting. (2)

jd (1658) | more than 2 years ago | (#38691956)

Anyone here want to comment on Lua? It's now provided with LaTeX to help provide a bit more oomph, but I'm torn between learning it and seeing what other scripting languages are added in.

Objective C and C# are not terribly surprising but given that there are plenty of C-based languages that never even made the top 20, I find it curious as to which C-based languages are thriving and which are not. If it were on the merits of the language alone, then you'd expect usage to reflect specific features, and I was assured repeatedly in the discussion on Java that languages were not (as I'd claimed) popular due to promotion. Surely not all those people could be wrong, could they?

Logo's popularity is puzzling as this is far too recent a survey to reflect the UK's demand to switch from learning about office supplies in IT to learning about writing software and starting off on 2D graphics applications. However, precisely because of that switch, I'd expect Logo's popularity to rise at least a little bit more. It is, after all, a language designed to start people off on writing 2D graphics applications.

Pascal, Delphi and Ada get mentions, but Modula-2 and Modula-3 do not. Nor does Eiffel. Not a terrible shock, but again it does say a lot about perceptions in regards to usage. I'm no fan of Modula-2 or Modula-3, but there are bound to be cases where they're more appropriate choices but the others are used instead.

Re:Interesting. (1, Interesting)

Darinbob (1142669) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692096)

Lua is probably the smallest and easiest language to integrate into a system and is extremely powerful for its size. While you can write full blown applications only in Lua it's real purpose is to be a subordinate add on to another program or system. A lot of people point to games when Lua is mentioned but there's nothing inherent about games in it. So you'll see this a lot more in embedded systems coming up I think. For example, unlike say Ruby or Python it doesn't come with a lot in the library but you can build your own customized to your own needs. No object oriented system but again you can create your own (from small efficient things to overblown monstrosities that make me think someone was missing the point). It's a relatively mature language as well.

Re:Interesting. (1)

aralin (107264) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692426)

Lua has been used in multiplayer online games as the choice language for writting addons and extensions for quite some time now.

At least Scala is dead (1)

SQLz (564901) | more than 2 years ago | (#38691962)

Fallen out of the top 50 into obscurity where it belongs.

Yiobe's bogus metrics (5, Informative)

edxwelch (600979) | more than 2 years ago | (#38691988)

Tiobe generates the rating by the search results of google/bing, etc. So basically, it's just measuring how many web pages mention a particular language. It does *not* measure the actual usage of the language in applications.

Re:Yiobe's bogus metrics (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38692022)

I can't think of a much better way of measuring usage of programming languages can you?

It's the conjuncture (1)

TarMil (1623915) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692004)

With all these countries losing their subjective AAAs, it's quite logical that the objective C gains interest.

The TIOBE index is nothing but a giant troll. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38692006)

In many cases they can't even remotely accurately detect what language they are looking at described in a web page.

The reason for its popularity... (4, Informative)

Timbo (75953) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692058)

...is obviously because of iOS. More specifically it's because when Steve Jobs rejoined Apple in 1996 he brought with his a lot of NeXTStep tech, including Obj-C. That's why many of the system types have the 'NS' prefix. History lesson aside, it's rather a shame as it's (in my opinion) a rather poor and outdated language. If I'm ever asked by people who aren't familiar with it what it's like I say that it's the anti-sibling to C++. By this I mean that it has the same parentage as C++, but where C++ went down one path, Obj-C took the other. The fact that most well regarded modern languages have more in common with C++ than Obj-C should indicate that they made mistakes in its design. Obj-C's biggest failing is its tendency to fail at runtime rather than during compilation. This is mostly down to its weak type system.

Don't get me wrong, I think C++ is getting pretty creaky too. I'm quite fond of D; in a fantasy world, some big commercial player will start using it and make it popular.

Re:The reason for its popularity... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38692226)

History lesson aside, it's rather a shame as it's (in my opinion) a rather poor and outdated language. If I'm ever asked by people who aren't familiar with it what it's like I say that it's the anti-sibling to C++.

You sometimes hear this said about Obj-C and it is somewhat true. It's syntax is a little outdated in comparison to some of the more modern languages but other things like the dynamic typing being a big issue are long since history; Objective-C compilers will now give you a lot more compile time information and make these kind of runtime errors largely a thing of the past. Obj-C is far from perfect but it's a much nicer language than the bloated hell that is C++.

Re:The reason for its popularity... (3, Insightful)

Timbo (75953) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692378)

You sometimes hear this said about Obj-C and it is somewhat true. It's syntax is a little outdated in comparison to some of the more modern languages but other things like the dynamic typing being a big issue are long since history; Objective-C compilers will now give you a lot more compile time information and make these kind of runtime errors largely a thing of the past. Obj-C is far from perfect but it's a much nicer language than the bloated hell that is C++.

Compilers can only compensate for the language's failures, not fix them. Having said that, the 'Analyze' option in Xcode 4 is pretty good.

Language bloat isn't a problem in itself. You are free not to use the features you consider bloat, at no cost. Where it does become a problem is when new language features are shoe-horned with every effort not to break compatibility. The result is obscure new syntax and existing features that should have gone the way of the Dodo. This is where C++11 is, if you ask me.

Re:The reason for its popularity... (1)

iluvcapra (782887) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692286)

Obj-C's biggest failing is its tendency to fail at runtime rather than during compilation.

Are you sure this isn't just a matter of taste? It gives it scripting-language agility and introspection with compiled language speeds, and still most of the type checking features are available when you want them, it just doesn't compel them.

The people who hate really Objective-C the most seem to be the people who are paid to write IEnumeratesEveryOddThursday interfaces and AbstractClassFactoryIntegerSerializationDataFactory classes for a living. Also, people who expect garbage collection on every platform, they aren't crazy about it either :)

Re:The reason for its popularity... (1)

Timbo (75953) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692448)

Are you sure this isn't just a matter of taste?

To some extent I guess; it depends how confident you are in your code. At the extreme end of functional programming you can prove that a certain program is correct before you even run it. This is very hard to do with a dynamic language.

It gives it scripting-language agility and introspection with compiled language speeds, and still most of the type checking features are available when you want them, it just doesn't compel them.

C# has reflection whilst being strongly-typed. The two things aren't mutally exclusive.

Explaining LOGO is easy (4, Interesting)

anyGould (1295481) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692138)

You need to show a bunch of six-year-olds how to program in an hour? Here's LOGO. Here's your turtle. Type FWD 20, watch it move forward. Five minutes later, the kids know all the basic commands. Put a maze in front of them, let them figure it out. Congrats - they're programming with a computer.

LOGO was my first programming language, back on an Apple II with a big honkin 5 1/4" floppy disk drive. It was the eye-opening "OMG these things do more than Oregon Trail?!?!?" moment.

Fastest growing... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38692318)

I hate the "fastest growing" statistic...If you only have 2 users and manage to get 2 more you've OMG DOUBLED your users!

Chinese (1)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 2 years ago | (#38692356)

nuf sed

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