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Cops Bust Starcraft Clan

jamie posted more than 13 years ago | from the darkened-hearts dept.

Games 317

Effugas writes "The mind boggles. Police have apparently raided a student's dorm room due to his participation in a heavy metal music inspired Starcraft clan, 'Bled For Days.'" The link above is to the university's student newspaper, the Kent Stater, which one of the students told me got the story completely wrong, though he wouldn't elaborate. That said, having spoken with another of the students, I think the essentials of the story are right: cops, confiscation, clan, and (absurd) worry about trash talk being death threats. A few comments below.

I spoke with Patrick Barnes, identified as the lead member of the clan. He's a Comp. Sci. major, and I can tell from the sound of his voice that he likes the material (he finds it easy).

The way Patrick described it to me, there was a technical glitch in uploading the website -- I'm still not sure exactly how this happened, but apparently they contacted the wrong server. Anyway, whatever happened, it got the attention of someone at Kent State. The students with their names on the clan site got letters in the mail saying they were to have a meeting with their Resident Director in two days.

On the day of that meeting, it was cancelled. Then, on Thursday, the cops (campus cops, apparently) came to one of their dorm rooms, and confiscated a computer and CDs. Everyone in the clan was taken to the station and individually questioned about what it was, what it meant, whether they were hackers, who was the "leader," and so on.

The confiscated computer is having its hard drive copied and analyzed for evidence. According to Patrick, it might be returned tomorrow, or, as the law allows, not for a year.

Patrick was the only one of the members I spoke with who was willing to talk at any length. He predicted the other members of the clan would be more worried than he, and he was right (their lawyer had told them not to talk about it). I hope in a few years they can look back on this as simply a surreal trip into the land of university cops who don't understand gaming.

I'll hand the conclusion over to this story's submitter, Effugas, who asks:

"Instead of simply laughing and moving on, what can we, as a community do to prevent these kind of occurances in the future? Would something as simple as a confidential 'reality check' group of experts, made available to law enforcement as consultants, be helpful? Would a set of guidelines, peer reviewed by the community, be useful? Instead of cursing the darkness, how can we praise the light?"

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This taking of private property is illegal. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#451541)

Here's why:

The 1980 Privacy Protection Act protects the freedom of American journalists, scholars and writers to publish freely by prohibiting all law enforcement agencies from searching for or seizing "any work product materials" or any related "documentary materials... possessed by a person... with a purpose to disseminate to the public a newspaper, book, broadcast, or other similar form of public communication" [42 U.S.C. SS2000aa].

The so-called law enforcement officers are forced to use some technique or gizmo that will inspect **only those portions** of a suspect journalist's hard disk which might pertain to a crime, and do so **without interrupting** the work in progress."

Since this "offensive" material was clearly meant for public dissemination, it is covered by this Act.

IMO, it's time for an enterprising lawyer to end the career of campus cop and an administrator or two. If this is handled properly, the students may never have to work again -- they can simply live off the proceeds of the inevitable (and richly deserved) lawsuit they will win.

E-mail for kent state (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#451542)

Media operations guy, Kent state: let 'em know they are idiots.

coincedence (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#451543)

It's kinda funny (and appropriate) that the Ad-banner that I got showed the Cluelessness and Blame demotivators.

FUD (1)

Vermifax (3687) | more than 13 years ago | (#451546)

They already had weapons of the same power. They were replacing the older weapons due to age. The M16's were cheaper than the equivalent semi-automatic weapons and the M16's would have been modified to make them semi-auto. The reason the sale fell through, is they thought they were getting new guns and it turned out the ones for sale were used.


"Let the wookie win" (1)

zyklone (8959) | more than 13 years ago | (#451555)

Idea for the next game against the campus police:
Let the cops win.

Re:I'm reminded of a Neal Young song (1)

TheCaptain (17554) | more than 13 years ago | (#451564)

Why do you people insist on trying to associate him with something that he obviously had NO involvement with whatsoever?

Besides....there are pretty much no grounds for the kinda crap this kids going through. He needs to get a good lawyer and appeal/sue the crap out of the cops/rentacops/university officials who are giving him this grief without any solid grounds. I don't think that the federal government, or state police in general have a whole hell of a lot to do with this...more likely some overzealous rentacops.

Re:Hmmmmm. (1)

The Toad (25382) | more than 13 years ago | (#451566)

Maybe all we need is such a group for the *press* to go to when reporting on such stories.

Wow. I could be next!! (1)

bteeter (25807) | more than 13 years ago | (#451567)

I sometimes spend hours after work playing Starcraft/Brood War. Sure I trash talk, taunt and even threaten my opponents. I have even told my opponents to drop dead on more than one occasion.

After reading this article, I am deathly afraid!

I better run home now and delete Starcraft from my hard disk. Then I need to burn the CD's and spread the ashes in a river. Then, I need to call Blizzard and have them remove me from servers, but only from a pay phone. I don't want anyone to know that it was me, and I don't want anyone to be able to track me down. I don't want them to take my computers and throw me in jail!!

But seriously, this is just plain dumb. Its a game man, that is all it is.

Did kids get busted in the 50's and 60's for taunting the pitcher in a baseball game?
Brian []

Gee it sounds like you should leave (1)

LennyDotCom (26658) | more than 13 years ago | (#451568)

If your sick and tired of the endless YRO stories DON'T READ THEM!
and better yet don't post to them.

Fruits and Instrumentalities (1)

schussat (33312) | more than 13 years ago | (#451586)

What the hell exactly does the KSU police spokesperson mean by "fruits and instrumentalities" of a computer crime?

I went and looked at their web site. If you didn't know it was a starcraft clan, you might be a little thrown: Pictures of guys in prison garb tied to chairs are a little unsettling. But come on. Yeah yeah, it's "post-Columbine," but all it would take is a little more reading of the site to actually figure out that these guys are not the next trenchcoat mafia. It's a friggin' game!

The fact that there seems to be some confusion over exactly why they went in there with a warrant is a little troubling, too. There are two stories: Worry over a "computer crime" and concern about "improper use" of the school's computers.

Was there really a crime there? Evidence of a crime? Is "improper" resource use enough for a search warrant?

Any why didn't anybody go and talk with them? Sheesh, they all had appointments with the dorm administrators, which were suddenly cancelled. This just reeks of improperly-implemented policies and paranoia, enabled by woefully bad fact-checking by whoever is supposed to be looking out for students.


Interesting comment... (1)

Alanzilla (43079) | more than 13 years ago | (#451589)

Interesting comment, considering that the Clinton Administration has overseen the greatest reduction in your personal freedoms, ever.

In defense of the police action (1)

Monte (48723) | more than 13 years ago | (#451590)

I can see how, in these litigous days, the campus admin are between a rock and a hard place. If they don't track down every whack-ass seeming "threat" then if some mal-adjusted nutcase decides to go apeshit on the campus they're going to be reamed out for not being diligent in their efforts to keep the campus "safe". On the other hand, things like this make them come off as jack-booted thugs.

What is the middleground? Maybe we need students to sign a disclaimer that would state, in essence: "The campus powers respect the student's privacy. Including the students with heads full of bad wiring that are building pipe bombs. Watch your ass".

BTW, back when I lived in Kent I heard that the campus PD was bigger than the city's. Never found out if it was true, though.

Phone numbers? (1)

supabeast! (84658) | more than 13 years ago | (#451597)

Would an enterprising Kent Stater be so kind as to provide the Slashdot crowd with contact information for the campus police, so that we might politely provide supportive information to the misunderstanding cops and help out our fellow gamers?

Re:Oh so what. (1)

krmt (91422) | more than 13 years ago | (#451600)

This story is not of "no worth or interest" to a lot of us. Maybe you don't live on a college campus, but I do, and I don't like the idea of someone being able to bust in to my room because of a failed file transfer.

Perhaps it's not your "totalitarian meltdown" but it is a constant battle against erosion of rights. These guys weren't even doing anything and yet they had their home raided and their possesions taken from them simply because of a file transfer problem and some rhetoric.

If this was a private home or workplace then this would be completely absurd (and even possibly fall under your definition of "real problems"), but you seem to think that because it happens to undergraduates (with their "holier than thou serious attitude") that it just doesn't matter. Well, when they come for you, no one will be crying and then we'll see if these problems are "real".

"I may not have morals, but I have standards."

Kent PD Armaments (1)

the_hose (120374) | more than 13 years ago | (#451609)

I could swear there was a tidbit on the news a couple weeks ago about the campus police deciding (after some deliberation) to cancel orders for several M-16 derivatives for their arsenal.

Imagine the bowl-cleansing horror of having a bunch of yokel campus cops armed with *assault rifles* storm your dorm room, having confused a video game enthusiast club with a murder conspiracy. What do we give the odds of an accidental shooting..?

Sounds like Salem! (1)

AMuse (121806) | more than 13 years ago | (#451610)

It seems like society will never quite get over that whole part where they completely fear anything they don't understand. If you took the reaction of the campus cops (Look, something's fishy and we don't understand it, we should arrest them!) and wind the clock back 200 years, you end up with the Salem Witch trials. (Look, something's fishy and we don't understand it, we should burn them!).

The fact is, our society is reactionary. What is not understood is usually misunderstood, and panic sets in quickly. If you look back at the cycles over the years, we've always wanted something to fear on the whole, so we create it.

Salem witch trials.
Communism (McCarthy)
Goths (Columbine)
Terrorists (Oklahoma)
Hackers! (Most recently)

The only solution to the people as a whole NOT taking events they don't understand and persecuting vague demographics based on their perception begins, and ends, with mass media.

It used to be gossip, then it was the church, and now it's CNN and Time-Warner. In any case, the root cause is misinformation from "trusted" sources.

weird police action (1)

stock (129999) | more than 13 years ago | (#451614)

so what was the actual crime?
where are the victims?
who claimed to be robbed or attempted murder?

forget about this stupid story, well....

the police has the leet computer gear, ain't
that the crime here?

Um, next time. . . (1)

gimple (152864) | more than 13 years ago | (#451623)

try not using a vulgar filename.

Really, though, why is this news? Some kids got hassled by the police. There is nothing sinister here.

Man, XFL, Homosexual Adoption, Cops Question Student. This is a pathetic day for Slashdot

geez.... (1)

ren-tzu (160502) | more than 13 years ago | (#451628)

sure am glad these guys weren't listening in our our IP games of Duke Nukem 3D...

Re:Warrent? (1)

jayhawk88 (160512) | more than 13 years ago | (#451629)

What's worse is when you don't have a choice to live elsewhere (like where I went to school).

Good point. Many schools require first, or even second, year students to live in the dorms. They most times claim it's "for the good of the student", to help "better acclimate them to college life", but in reality it's just another way to leech some more money out of students.

If you want to get out of living in the dorms, the excuses that work pretty much come down to "I'm married", "My parents spent $90k for a house", or "I'm a football/basketball player".

Ban the sale of Photon Cannons and Gauss Rifles! (1)

jayhawk88 (160512) | more than 13 years ago | (#451630)

From the article:

Friends of the student whose room was raided said the police might have been concerned about a Web site where several Kent State students set up a "war-like" game.

Isn't calling StarCraft a "war-like" game kinda like calling Jurassic Park a "science-like" movie?

Re:Oh so what. (1)

NetDrain (167337) | more than 13 years ago | (#451632)

I'm sorry, but the confiscation of private property due to a fear of shadows without a warrant is a violation of the fourth amendment, and busting these kids due to some junk they posted online is a violation of the first amendment. I think we have a reason to be up in arms because this seems to be all too common in this bloody world today.

A Geeks First They Came... (1)

broody (171983) | more than 13 years ago | (#451633)

First they came for Steve Jackson Games
and I did not speak out
because I did play Hacker.
Then they came for Palidin Press
and I did not speak out
because I was not a hit man.
Then they came for Clan Bled For Days
and I did not speak out
because I did not play with them.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Apoligies to Martin Niemoller.
I could not resist.

Fer Chrissakes... (1)

LNO (180595) | more than 13 years ago | (#451640)

Geek pogrom?

Anti-Linux university attitudes?

Come on. This isn't the New World Order or a sekrit Microsoft plot or a post-Columbine anti-Geek conspiracy that'll get Jon Katz frothing at the mouth. (He'll froth anyway, though. No way around that.) There are more important things to worry about than sensationalizing a minor issue.

Of course, I give this about twenty minutes before I'm called a troll or a moron. If you think that this is the first step to a giant totalitarian goverment that rules this planet via the airwaves and partitions out information in such a way as to force us, the masses, to base our conclusions on erroneous evidence, you're clearly not enjoying life as much as the rest of us.

This realy blows my mind.... (1)

c0sm0 (190847) | more than 13 years ago | (#451642)

How could someone of average intelligence think that that web site was of harm to anyone.... I'm mean it says in bright red letters "we don't mean kill anyone for real" Come on man, this is insanity.... I can't fathom what I would do if this happened to me... I'd probably go ballistic shouting at the police and swearing and I know that wouldn't help the situation... I'd probably get the shit kicked out of me by those cops!!

This sounds like a job for JonKatz! (1)

TheOutlawTorn (192318) | more than 13 years ago | (#451643)

Right up his alley. Turn him loose, they'll be begging for mercy

Re:hardly an overreaction (1)

TheOutlawTorn (192318) | more than 13 years ago | (#451644)


Which music and lyrics? The stuff off the Static X album? I can assure you that such a lyric does not exist on that album. If not that, what are you referring to?

Re:Warrant? (1)

morganew (194299) | more than 13 years ago | (#451648)

Depending on the University policy, Dorm rooms do not have the same expectation of privacy as a home does (although there have been all sorts of debates about high school lockers). Additionally, If they were using the Internet service provided by the university to connect to the server, the school could get to them that way.

I'm reminded of a Neal Young song (1)

Hairy_Potter (219096) | more than 13 years ago | (#451657)

tin soldiers and dubya coming
4 arrested in O-hi-O

naah, doesn't have the same ring

Unbelievable (1)

$0 31337 (225572) | more than 13 years ago | (#451667)

How did they get a warrant anyway? When did posting a shitlist become against the law and deserve a warrant? Jeez... Next thing you know they'll come after IRC channel operators for ban/kicking someone because it's a "crime of discrimination"

This is scary because... (1)

B14ckH013Sur4 (234255) | more than 13 years ago | (#451673)

"They were looking for the fruits and instrumentalities of a computer crime," a spokesperson from Kent State University Police Department said. "They were concerned with possible improper use of a computer system."
This is what really scares me about the whole thing... shouldn't they, more specifically, have been looking for evidence that the student actually meant harm to anyone?? That term is way too vague. This needs to be broken down into specific things you are looking for, it should be specified in the warrant given, and looking elsewhere on the system needs to be made illegal. What if they searched through GNUcash and found a purchase from an Amsterdam seed company or other possibly controversial files? You better bet you're going down for what they found, because the warrant simply states possible improper use... is NOT sufficient.

rotten fruit? (1)

omega_rob (246153) | more than 13 years ago | (#451683)

The cops were reportedly looking for "the fruits and instrumentalities of a computer crime." I hope those bad boys in the dorm were like me, and took great pains to hide all their fruits and instrumentalities somewhere safe where the campus pigs won't find them.

Also reported, "they were concerned with possible improper use of a computer system." This begs the obvious question "what exactly constitutes proper use?" If they were officials from Microsoft instead of campus police, they'd probably bust my ass for running Linux on my PC. I bet most of the people at Slashdot would do the same to some weenie trying to wire up a bunch of Windows boxes into a Beowulf cluster. It's all a matter of perspective, really.


Re:Oh so what. (1)

baptiste (256004) | more than 13 years ago | (#451689)

Even better...

  1. Click on Preferences Link near top of any story
  2. Look for section labelled "Exclude Stories from the Homepage"
  3. Check box next to 'Your Rights on Line' and click 'savehome' button
  4. Say silent prayer for CmdrTaco for giving you said ability
  5. Cut off index finger to stop clicking and replying to other stories in subjects you can't stand!

Accusations will always come first. (1)

Faulty Dreamer (259659) | more than 13 years ago | (#451694)

When Faulty Dreams started we were accused of being everything from a cult to a covert bunch of baby rapers out to destroy civilization. It never occured to anyone that we actually were a heavy metal band that enjoyed writing stories and poetry.

The fact is that we didn't/haven't drawn enough attention to bring down the big guns on our heads, but if the right group heard about us we would be in the same boat as these poor guys. Once the accusation line starts, there is no stopping it. Fear rules this society we live in. Especially fear of those who use and understand technology. Forget about being rational in the face of such accusations. It's the modern day witch-hunt. They ask you to prove you aren't a hacker, you say you can't, they say, 'AH-HA! WE KNEW IT!' and you are hosed.

They may not stick your head in a bucket of water(the old test for being a witch, drown and you are 'innocent' live and you are guilty), but I would look soon for suspected hackers to be asked to program something. If they succeed, they will be termed hacker and locked away. If they fail, it will be said that they are trying to hide their true powers and locked away. Freedom means nothing nowadays. Fear and accusations are all that really matter. Especially if it gives the establishment the opportunity to grab just a little more power (baby-steps). I can't wait to see how totally hosed society is by the time my kids have to deal with this garbage.

Warrent? (1)

shannara256 (262093) | more than 13 years ago | (#451695)

So, because it was campus police rather than real police, they didn't need a warrent? Did the student sign away that right as a part of getting the dorm room, or what? And, the follow-up question to that: did they have to stay on-campus? -Jason-

Re:Read the link (1)

shannara256 (262093) | more than 13 years ago | (#451696)

Sorry 'bout this. This is why spelling is so important (warrent vs warrant).


Read the documentation already (1)

angelic_crusader (262753) | more than 13 years ago | (#451697)

Once again we are confronted by the dire and awful perils of not bloody reading stuff properly. If Residential Services had read the rest of the site they probably would have figured out that these supposed death threats were harmless enough.
I mean, for heaven's sake, it even says at the top of the list,
' the game itself, not in the REAL world!...'
Surely that must have been obvious, even to university admin staff!
My gun will be your angel of mercy!

Re:Phone numbers? (1)

papskier (263483) | more than 13 years ago | (#451698)

Take your pick from this list [] .


$man microsoft

Online or not, the law is THE LAW !! (1)

Flabdabb Hubbard (264583) | more than 13 years ago | (#451700)

If I walked up to you in the street and called you a slashdot-reading no-life asshole, that would be illegal (threatening behaviour, harassment whatever). But if I do it online, its OK ???

I'm sorry, and maybe I am an idealist, but does it seem unreasonable to expect civilised behaviour from people, whether or not they hide behind the anonymity of an online persona ?

What do others think ?

Re:The best solution... (1)

TwitchSGL (265659) | more than 13 years ago | (#451702)

Hey that's my boss - He actually fears me because I read slash dot. I'm "One of those Linex geeks".

Oh so what. (1)

Lover's Arrival, The (267435) | more than 13 years ago | (#451704)

Besides from the fact that I am getting sick and tired of endless 'YRO' stories on /., how is this story significant in any way at all? Jesus, it seems pretty damned clear to me.

1) The students contact a dodgy computer off-campus. This could easily be mis-interpreted as a hacker attack.

2)They are questioned by Campus cops. So what. They are living on University property, the campus cops can do what they like. And in this case things were suspicious.

3)It ends up plastered all over the web, and lots of people pontificate about how evil it all is. How ironic. If anything bad had really happened, if this country were going into totalitarian meltdown as the /. editors would have us believe, we wouldn't hear about it in the first place.

This story has no worth or interest. I'm getting fed up of all this whining, I really am. Nobody knows what real problems are anymore. This site has such an undergraduate, holier than thou serious attitude, it gets my goat. Enough.

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.

Re:Oh so what. (1)

Lover's Arrival, The (267435) | more than 13 years ago | (#451705)

If you are living on someones property, then the owner of that property is perfectly entitled to search you and your property, and to interview you.

These are campus cops, not real cops.

Do you see them getting sued? Don't go around telling people what they can and can't do on their property.

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.

On Logic and the Legal System (1)

popular (301484) | more than 13 years ago | (#451711)

Since when has logic ever been a part of the legal system? If you have money and time, you can defend yourself, if you don't, too bad. Do you think the police would jump so quickly if they thought this kid would be able to sic a half dozen lawyers on their asses?


Tough issue... (1)

cavemanf16 (303184) | more than 13 years ago | (#451714)

This whole thing about perceived violence as it is seen on the net is a tough issue to tackle. For instance, I have seen my own high school brother talked about with much vulgarity on a website by some of his classmates that according to him, are 'messed up kids'. Now I know my brother and fully trust his judgement, but how can you tell if a person is just being really sarcastic or really has some mental issues? I don't think their is a good way to tackle this, but I would like to at least know that those students had knowingly signed away their rights to proper search and seizure laws. Seems like the campus cops just came in and did what they wanted without much legal precedent. Anyone have some clarification on the laws in this case?

Re:In the future (1)

cavemanf16 (303184) | more than 13 years ago | (#451715)

Hahaha! And in cs_jail, you find nothing but unbound textures and other map anomolies that lock your computer indefinitely, forcing a complete reboot!

"Four Dead in Ohio" (1)

Targetman (308365) | more than 13 years ago | (#451718)

but that was Nixon's army (Ohio National Guard), but I think that it shows Kent State's attitude toward personal freedoms.

Overreaction (1)

tdye (308813) | more than 13 years ago | (#451720)

From what we've been told, it sounds to me like the administration had first planned a "what's this all about" sort of meeting, but someone in legal got wind of it, and then the cops decided to take action to make sure no one was doing anything ilegal. It sounds like their grounds for a search were pretty flimsy; I hope they've got good lawyers.

It's a great illustration of how paranoid our institutions have become because of the perceived climate of violence and the frivolous lawsuits thrown around these days.

Also, I find the disclaimer at the top of the campus paper unsettling... the threat of perceived harm due to lawsuits has had a severely chilling effect on speech, and I guess CYA rules the day on campus now. Everything must have its disclaimer, lest the unwary be offended into calling their lawyers and suing the school.

Re:If true... (1)

tdye (308813) | more than 13 years ago | (#451721)

campuses haven't been a bastion of free speech since the early 90's, if not before.

Especially if you're a Republican, or if you don't toe the PC line, your views are shouted down or otherwise suppressed in the name of diversity and sensitivity.

Fright (1)

banuaba (308937) | more than 13 years ago | (#451722)

Crazily enough, the cops involved have probably broken no law and have followed the policies of the department to a t. When you have recurring mass violent crimes (columbine, et al), law enforcement personell certianly dont' want that sort of thing to happen in thier community (does anyone?), and they have knee-jerked to the excessive side of the fence, overreacting and confiscating equipiment. If you read the article, you can see that they also searched furniture, 'probably for drugs' the article states.
I do not envy law enforcement thier jobs (those members who are interested in protecting and serving, not the bad ones). You are forced to balance the good of the community with the rights of an individual, even to the point of letting the guilty go free due to violations of thier rights. I think that this is the right thing to do, but it's gotta be a sh1tty job.
Another problem is that these 'old school' cops and administrators dont' understand the new technologies and the way that kids today think. My screaming of vulgarities and death threats at other poeple while I'm playing QIII is not a crime, it's ust me blowing off steam, but if someone who doesn't play or hasn't played anything of the type hears me, they'd think I was a psycho who needed medical attention. (this is, of course, still open to debate)
Regardless of what comes of this, the cops screwed up, and will get a ration of crap from the students there, and hopefully there will be a review of the situation, and something good will come of it. Maybe warrant/search procedure rules? Student government involvment?


Re:Oh so what. (1)

karmawhoeaaa2 (309448) | more than 13 years ago | (#451723)

how about what people (cops) can do with your personal property?

Re:Warrent? (1)

swiggidy (311202) | more than 13 years ago | (#451728)

In my dorm if the RA wanted to come in your room and you refused he/she could call campus security and come in. That's your warrent.

Confiscated computer games?!? (1)

SiriusBlack (313236) | more than 13 years ago | (#451737)

"Uh, these games look like they might have been used in a crime, let's take them!"

What the fuck?!? Q3 Arena is now contraband? Let's get something straight here -- you cannot assault someone by going through their modem. You can't even harass someone via email (ever hear of a filter?). Online is absolutely the most benign media for posing and posturing, simply because YOU CAN'T DO ANY REAL HARM as long as you remain online. Where do we send the money to contribute to the false arrest/malicious prosecution lawsuit?

Re:Online or not, the law is THE LAW !! (1)

SiriusBlack (313236) | more than 13 years ago | (#451738)

If that's true, then shouldn't virtually all of the WWF wrestlers be arrested? Seems to me we've got 'em all on video threatening to harm/kill others! Could it be that you're missing an important element here called "intent".

Kill 'em all. (2)

Skyshadow (508) | more than 13 years ago | (#451748)

To quote an exchange between the Confederate general Stonewall Jackson and an aide on seeing the really unwarrented vandelism inflicted on Fredricksburg during the Civil War:

"How we gonna put an end to all this, General?"
"Kill 'em. Kill 'em all."

(Note: Skyshadow is joking. Suggestions are not to be taken literally. If you find yourself not finding this amusing given the context, you may be humor impared. If so, please shoot yourself between the eyes. No, wait! That was sarcasm! Aw, forget it.)


Re:Online or not, the law is THE LAW !! (2)

Skyshadow (508) | more than 13 years ago | (#451749)

Yeah, you're right. That's why I'm going to turn myself in. See, when I was playing Risk last night, I invaded Poland. I deserve to go away for war crimes.


Hmmmmm. (2)

jd (1658) | more than 13 years ago | (#451751)

A "neutral" watchdog that had teeth enough to prevent police abuse -and- enough savvy to actually recognise said abuse would be such a threat to the existing establishment that it'd never go through.

Your best bet is a wireless network, IR keyboards/mice, and hiding the servers in the air conditioning vents.

Re:Hmmmmm. (2)

jd (1658) | more than 13 years ago | (#451752)

Let's consider Joe Q Public. Since they fund the establishment and vote into power those who run the establishment, they themselves -are- the establishment.

Unfortunately, Joe Q Public is fond of hands-off Government, with tougher policing, and (above all else) Tax Cuts.

Since a watchdog costs money, JQP will always be hostile to it, because it means tax raises, rather than tax cuts. And how can they afford their 3rd SUV that way?

Sad, but that's the attitude that's out there. That's why Bush won.

Re:What a surprise (2)

Otter (3800) | more than 13 years ago | (#451754)

Hey, welcome to the new America where anything bad that happens to you is cause for a jury to award you a billion dollars from the nearest deep pockets. The school is in a tough position here -- if one of these students does turn out to be a psycho who kills his roommates, the media are going to be publishing the URL to their stupid page and demanding, "How could Kent State have overlooked such an obvious warning sign?"

Either we're going to live in a giant kindergarten or we're not. Personally I'd rather smokers took their chances and accepted the consequences while I pay $20 for a lift ticket and ski OB terrain without risking arrest. But that's me...

Re:Warrent? (2)

jamiemccarthy (4847) | more than 13 years ago | (#451755)

"they didn't need a warrent?"

Read the link. Third sentence of the linked story reads: "Kent State University police obtained a warrant after consulting with the prosecutor."

Jamie McCarthy

Re:The streets of Kent State are safe again! (2)

Dr.Dubious DDQ (11968) | more than 13 years ago | (#451757)

I can now breathe easier, thanks to that crack force of Kent State campus police! [emphasis added]

Uh...that was unintentional, right?

Though it might explain things...

[insert obligatory comment about Kent State campus police moderating slashdot here...]

"They have strategic air commands, nuclear submarines, and John Wayne. We have this"

attention police (2)

Shoeboy (16224) | more than 13 years ago | (#451761)

In the name of humanity I beg you to bust these clans too [] .

This is disgusting.... (2)

Randy Rathbun (18851) | more than 13 years ago | (#451763)

I honestly don't quite know what to say. Yeah, it is bad at Kent State for these guys, but this whole "Remember Columbine!" crap is spreading like wildfire.

Today during lunch the TV was on one of the local "news" stations, WDAF [] . I use that word "news" lightly - they spend most of the time doing stories about skiing squirrels.

Their lead story was this [] . And of course they (along with the KC Star article I linked to) mentioned how "Columbine like" this was. WDAF TV went a step further though by mentioning that "police found three black trench coats"!


Re:Warrent? (2)

ConceptJunkie (24823) | more than 13 years ago | (#451765)

If I recall correctly from my college days (in the early-mid 80's), basically no. My understanding was that you pretty much gave up all your Constitutional rights in order to live in the dorms at a Virginia Tech in the U.S.

The ironic thing about constitutional rights... they generally don't apply to non-governmental organizations.

Re:Read the fucking article before you post! (2)

Mock (29603) | more than 13 years ago | (#451766)

They had a warranty.

Oh thank GOD! For a minute there I thought they wouldn't be able to get a manufacturer's reimbursement should the equipment turn out to be defective!

Read the fucking article before you post! (2)

segmond (34052) | more than 13 years ago | (#451768)

They had a warranty.
"They executed a search and confiscated a computer, CDs and computer games from Room 304. Kent State University police obtained a warrant after consulting with the prosecutor."

If true... (2)

tbo (35008) | more than 13 years ago | (#451769)

OK, given the recent quality of Slashdot journalism, I don't know how accurate the information actually is. That said, if it is true, WTF?

Aren't universities supposed to be the last bastion of free speech? Doesn't it now seem like they're the first to crumble any time something threatens individual rights (banning Napster, overzealous political correctness, busting "hackers", etc.)?

We live in a sad world...

Re:Oh so what. (2)

donutello (88309) | more than 13 years ago | (#451777)

...due to a fear of shadows without a warrant is a violation ...

Read the fucking article. They had a warrant.

Bring on the lawyers (2)

fhwang (90412) | more than 13 years ago | (#451778)

Not that I'm a big fan of litigation, but since you're talking about the police -- who are about as good at internal reform as, say, the CIA -- lawsuits may be your best in forcing changes in policy. I think it's quite fair to say that the threat of having your dorm room raided because you posted trash-talk online constitutes a pretty major violation to the First Amendment. It would be well within the jurisdiction of organizations like the ACLU or the EFF to take Kent State to court over this, and I hope they do so.

American mentality (2)

crlf (131465) | more than 13 years ago | (#451787)

You guys realize that you'll be seeing ALOT more of this now that George 'double ya' Bush got elected.. tsk tsk

Re:Warrent? (2)

Cannonball (168099) | more than 13 years ago | (#451793)

I tried this little piece of logic while I was a student in college. The University can, should it so choose, allow anyone into your residence (provided that they are your landlord), at any time, should proper University Officials (anyone they deem necessary), authorize entry. I own a rapier, it's a rather imposing piece of steel, but it is unsharpened, and remains in its scabbard, yet they decided it was a deadly weapon, and they could confiscate it without
  • Telling me.
  • Telling me when I could get it back.
  • Leaving a receipt to say they had it.
Ridiculous. The Universities own their students, as long as they live in their dorms. What's worse is when you don't have a choice to live elsewhere (like where I went to school).

so.... (2)

photozz (168291) | more than 13 years ago | (#451794)

They were busted for posting threats, or something.. about a game who's main point is to kill the enemy.... the irony is simply delicious.

paranioa seems to do a lot...... (2)

brad2600 (170333) | more than 13 years ago | (#451795)

when people like this, people with moderate amount of power, yet dont understand what they should be using it for, get scared, strange things happen.

about two years ago, a friend of mine was contacted, they wanted to ask him a few questions about a "recent security violation". apparently the isp he read his email from was setup ni an incredibly odd way, they had a couple of mail servers, and pop was the standard mail server that this guy should have been using, however, being moderately slow, he was using popp (its one extra keystroke). apparently popp was reserved for the local rcmp branch (canadas version of the fbi) email, as well as the local police departmnet's email. fine, but apparently everyone else's login/pass works on this server.

my analysis is that they read a log quickly, saw that he had repeatedly logged in successfully to this supposedly secure box, and the isp started thinking legal action. anyhow onto the story, after being called by a threatening sounding person, he got in touch with a friend of his, a lawyer. by the end of that day, pretty much every law enforcement official in the town had swarmed into his place (with a questionable warrant), and taken everything that resembled a peice of electronics. of course after analyzing the poor guys setup, the isp quickly realized what idiots they were, and quickly dropped everything. the local rcmp apparently kept everything for another 6 months out of paranoia. no body seemed to understand that what he was doing was based off of a simple error, the friend didnt even notice, as his email still came in a-o.k.

had the tech reading the log thought for about three minutes, the entire situation could have been avoided. had the law agencies thought, hey, maybe we should get someone to take a second and third look at those logs, the entire situation could have been avoided. had someone spoken to him long enough to realize he didnt know what telnet, tracert, ping, ftp, or even pop stood for (let alone how any of them worked), the entire situation could have been avoided. what im basically saying, is most situations like my friends, and the one in the story could have been avoided. all people need is a bit of logic when dealing with computer security issues.


Drink more tea []

Wait a second (2)

BeerSlurpy (185482) | more than 13 years ago | (#451800)

These are the same campus cops that don't bat an eye when you smoke a joint in the field in front of the library, but theyre arresting people for talking smack in a video game?

I guessing this will be hushed up once the parents start calling in and the school administration realizes what is going on.

The best solution... (2)

TheOutlawTorn (192318) | more than 13 years ago | (#451801)

...would be education. Education of the law enforcement officials who carry out this kind of knee-jerk action because they truly do not understand the culture or the technology. Not that ignorance is a valid excuse, but you would be suprised how many cops, prosecuters, etc think all geeks are made from the templates in the movie Hackers. (How's that for scary?)

Read the link (2)

Averye0 (194295) | more than 13 years ago | (#451802)

The story states that the "police" (campus or otherwise) legally obtained a warrant before searching the dorm room.


Ban Fiction! (2)

perdida (251676) | more than 13 years ago | (#451809)

Ban Fiction in which murder is depicted! Ban wrestling, definitely. It's full of threats!

Seriously, I think the police are using any tactic they can to search for anything they can, and to bust as many people as they can.

Burke discussed how he thought it seemed like the police were searching for something else, possibly drugs, because they searched furniture as well. "They shouldn't be allowed to do that," he said. "It's just not right, especially since they are keeping the guy's computer for a year."

Give everything that the police seize to charity, or to groups like NORML that they don't like. that should cut down on their seizing.

This harassment will worsen as 4/20 approaches (2)

typical geek (261980) | more than 13 years ago | (#451812)

I fear that this harassment will worsen as 4/20 approaches. Student athletes and popular kids may increase their harasssment of geeks and nerds, and geeks and nerds will come under increased surveillance, one needs only to think about the copy cat crime committed on 4/18 (worst act of terrorism against Americans ever) to realize how serious law enforcement will be taking the threat of another Columbine.

I see a few solutions, fighting the power, quietly drawing attention to oppressed geeks, or integrating into society.

While fighting the power that is oppressing us geeks may seem the fun thing to do, let's not forget what happens to other oppressed groups that try to fight the entrenched powers that be, can we forget MOVE, WACO, Wounded Knee or Ruby Ridge? I'm not sure about you, but I certainly don't want to die in a geek compound surrounded by Federal Storm Troopers intent on killing us. True, we do have a second amendment, but you need a whole nation to support that, not just a few gun owning geeks, ESR not withstanding.

A second option is quietly drawing attention to oppressed geeks. Since the rainbow is taken, perhaps we can think of another symbol for geek-pride, perhaps the Penguin? We can also convince the do-gooders at Amnesty Internaitional to write letters to various school administrators letting htem know that their oprression and silent co-operation in this geek pogrom will not go undetected, indeed, for some geeks, silence == death.

The best option might be to integrate oneself with society at large, following the model of America's most successful minorities, the Jews. Perhaps we geeks can learn a little about American culture at large,a nd fit in better with our non-geek neighbors. LEt's appreciate football as examples of Newtonian physics, let's appreciate loud fast cars, and maybe we can all jsut get along.

An All too Legal Search and Seizure (2)

TheWhiteOtaku (266508) | more than 13 years ago | (#451813)

Isn't this type of shit illegal? Don't we have a bill of rights to protect us from illegal search and seizure? What the hell happened to the fourth amendment?

They probably legitimize this granting of a warrant by saying that there was a death threat. I wasn't there, but there's no way the University police looked at the names (allegedly just handles) and said "quick, we need to warn these people! Search the phonebook for a "5uP4_Ki114_666!" Just cause you have a warrant doesn't mean its not unreasonable search and seizure. You need probable cause (I doubt that the prosecutor elaborated on the death threats when asking the judge for a warrant). Just cause a judge gives you a warrant doesnt mean you can go stripsearch a supermodel.

They students were not using University web space to run this website, and even if they were using the University ISP, it doesn't give them the rights to censor them and confiscate a PC. AOL can't break down doors of a user whos looking at porn, take his computer, and charge him with "misuse". (though they can kick him off the ISP, which Kent State SHOULD have done)

What's that leave to charge these guys with? Profanity and running a Starcraft clan (neither of which are illegal though I believe the latter should be ;-))

While what the University cops did SHOULD be illegal, it may not be. Lawmakers have been passing cybercrime laws that do more to make them look "tough on hackers" than to actually do anything. These laws often have provisions that could be unconstitutional, but since judges don't understand (many don't use computers at all, and still have their law clerks and secretaries type things) they can stand. These 'cybercrime' laws don't get much opposition by either the public, or the media, because, hey, who wants to stand up for a hacker, right?

Bottom Line: The Internet is becoming a much less free place. Offending anyone in power (even if the offense is a misunderstanding) can now get your place searched and computer taken. Perhaps 2001 will end up being a little less Kubrick and little more Orwell.

Re:Be really afraid, then. (2)

popular (301484) | more than 13 years ago | (#451814)

Is that scarier than the fact that they probably didn't need a warrant? In most dorms, search and seizure of the premises is likely to be at the discretion of the school, not its occupants.


Re:Comes down to this (2)

Rick the Red (307103) | more than 13 years ago | (#451816)

it comes down to this:

they would rather make several mistakes than have one slip by.

That would be understandable if they did two things:

1) never do irreparable harm
2) admit your mistakes, say you're sorry, and give the stuff back.

I bet in this case they didn't do 1 and they won't do 2.

Re:I call it progress... (3)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#451818)

1) That was the National Guard, not the campus police.

2) Apparently this was not as amusing as you had hoped it would be because nobody on /. is old enough to remember the Kent State massacre.

3) The students that were shot WERE actually threatening someone (by throwing rocks and bottles) unlike these gamers, who were just indulging in testosterone-tinged trash talk.

4) Why stop at online games? Why not arrest the students at football games carrying banners threatening the opposing team? Oh wait -- those are school sanctioned death threats, so that's ok!

Not much information to guess from... (3)

Dr.Dubious DDQ (11968) | more than 13 years ago | (#451822)

...but I'm wondering if whoever is running the "wrong server" they accidentally contacted and uploaded to saw the page, thought they'd been cracked (perhaps the pages being uploaded were about to be used to "deface" whatever was supposed to be there, the sysadmin may have thought), and made a panicked call to the cops saying somebody was "hacking" his system.

We all know how rational US law enforcement/government is about anything involving computers, and perhaps they looked at the pages uploaded in the supposed "hacking", saw the "death threats" [in the game] and did their usual ridiculous overreaction.

Mind you, this is all wild speculation on my part. The article doesn't really say much.

"They have strategic air commands, nuclear submarines, and John Wayne. We have this"

This seems strange. (3)

Restil (31903) | more than 13 years ago | (#451824)

I couldn't quite tell if the cops involved were campus cops or municipal cops. Since in some areas campus cops at state universities are effectively state troopers, I suppose it doesn't really make any difference. The point here is an issue of jurisdiction. You live in a school dorm and use a school network. You expect to have some degree of privacy, but it appears if that is not the case. You can be monitored, and while a warrant was obtained, it was probably rather easy to obtain due to the extra fine print that is inserted all over university documents with regards to use of the school's network and what is considered acceptable behavior in dorms.

There are extenuating circumstances here that create extra problems. If these students lived in their own house and paid for their own isolated internet connection that had no connection to the university, the "evidence" collecting methods that caused the problems in the first place wouldn't exist and nobody would ever have obtained a warrant against them, let alone ever found out about the website in the first place.

I'm quite certain these types of issues have been going on for quite some time, but before Columbine people generally turned a blind eye to the activity since it wasn't on their radar screen. I had my account canceled on a university computer back in 1992 because I telnet'ed into the system from another university when I was visiting there and was accused of unauthorized access as a result. They apparrenly watch things like that pretty closely and I don't doubt they have stepped up their surveillance in past years as computers have gotten more powerful and networks have been used more.

I don't suppose there's an easy solution to this problem. Part of the advantage of living in a dorm room is unfettered access to the university's often ample internet bandwidth, and in many cases you don't curtail any activities based soley on what someone else might think of them. But the network is not public. There are restrictions in place and like it or not, the university has probably gone to great lengths to assure they they will have the means to "protect" themselves and others from any "dangerous" students, no matter how they go about discovering this information.

The solution isn't really simple. The solution to this problem is to isolate yourself from the university. Don't use a university network and don't live in dorms. Rent a local house with your roommates and pick up a dsl or cable connection for your bandwidth. It might cost more (in some cases it might not), but that is sometimes the price of freedom. On a separate network, this wouldn't have happened. On a separate network, the student who had his equipment confiscated for "hacking" a website by running some dns tests on it after it was cracked would not have heard a peep about it.


What a surprise (3)

adjensen (58676) | more than 13 years ago | (#451825)

Welcome to the new America, where you're guilty until proven innocent, at least in some regards. The proliferation of kooks who go on a tear and wipe out a bunch of people (witness Illinois yesterday, Edgewater Technology recently, etc) you should expect that people will tend to go a bit over the top where random violence (real or perceived) is concerned.

That's not necessarily a bad thing, but watch the civil liberties, boys! It's the sort of thing that can come back to snap you in the ass if you're not careful.

Re:Read the fucking article before you post! (3)

donutello (88309) | more than 13 years ago | (#451826)

They had a warranty.

I think I got one of those with my toaster oven. I'm going to go serve it up to those annoying kids that live in the apartment below.

Re:I call it progress... (3)

mikethegeek (257172) | more than 13 years ago | (#451832)

You are wrong about the Kent State Massacre. The students that were shot were ones that were merely walking between classes. They were not participating in the protests.

Their only crime was being in the way of the bullets of some government jack booted thugs.

It seems that we as citizens have learned NOTHING from that event. Though the public reaction to the Kent State Massacre was outrage, the 1990's saw more American citizens than ever massacred by government stormtrooper "mistakes". I'm referring to Waco and Ruby Ridge. And there wasn't the outrage that was seen in 1970. For one thing, the news media in 1970 was NOT the establishment's puppet as it is today. Waco and Ruby Ridge were both reported incorrectly with a pro-government slant.

Re:A new idea in bad web design? (3)

moz25 (262020) | more than 13 years ago | (#451834)

Heh, these guys don't seem to be the smartest, no. They seem to be stupid kids or whatever to whom 'sex' is still a big deal, heh.. fun. No biggie.. move along now.

I'm a tad bit jealous of Adam, though (read the part about the female member) ;-)


A new idea in bad web design? (3)

Behrooz (302401) | more than 13 years ago | (#451835)

Wow! Not only does their page look horrible, they also created a whole NEW web design sin just for their page:

Giving their real names *and* listing that their interests include pot smoking, sex, and underage drinking.
Man, that has to be the easiest "computer crime" search warrant those cops have ever gotten!

BfD member page (with self-incriminating statements) []

Be really afraid, then. (4)

Skyshadow (508) | more than 13 years ago | (#451836)

What should scare you is that they did get a warrent.

This implies that at least one other supposedly intelligent adult (the judge) looked at this case and decided it had enough merit to send in the storm troopers. Of course, this really shouldn't surprise you too badly -- America has become so terrified of crime that civil rights fell along the wayside a decade ago; getting a warrent to deprive an individual of their civil rights is little more than a formality these days. And hey, why not? If you don't have anything to hide, you shouldn't mind the police searching your house, right? God Bless America.


Been There (4)

latneM (7876) | more than 13 years ago | (#451837)

Ah yes, Campus Police investigating computer crimes. I was a student Admin at the University I was attending. A friend was in the middle of getting busted for hacking into ISPs for free access. I tried to convince him the risk wasn't worth $20 a month, but some lessons you have to learn yourself.

Anyways, being an Admin I would leave myself logged into a Sparc and just use screen to resume the session. This friend would log onto the same Sparc and then telnet out to the ISPs using his hacked accounts. This was all the proof they needed, I was brought in for questioning.

"I have a printout of a log that shows that every time 'slow learner' used this computer for illegal activity, you were also logged in. How do you explain that? Why won't you tell us how you were helping him?"

"Uh, I can show you a log that shows that I have been logged in for about 5 months straight."

This went on for a while.

A large group of us (mostly locals) would hang out on IRC and even get together every so often for a party. I attended a majority of these parties, so did "slow learner". Unfortunately, so did my gf (now wife). So she was brought in for questioning.

"So you would attend these 'Hacker Parties'? What went on there? Why are you getting yourself into computer crimes? Who was the leader of this 'Hacker Party'".

"Uh, we just got together a lot."

Again, this went on for quite a while. A large number of us were just good friends at school and used IRC to keep in touch while some of us were out co-op'ing and such. We'd throw a party after finals and such and just do stupid, but not yet illegal, stuff. Drinking, music, standard party stuff really.

This guy kept threatening to drag me downtown (the *real* cops) if I kept refusing to cooperate. The worse part was my boss had to sit there and listen to this guy, pretty much powerless to make him stop pestering me. And threatening to take my computers.

I call it progress... (4)

Covener (32114) | more than 13 years ago | (#451839)

30 Years ago they'd have teargassed and shot!

Re:I call it progress... (4)

jeffsenter (95083) | more than 13 years ago | (#451841)

I hope some of the moderators understand the reference of the comment. Any misuse of force at Kent State brings to mind the massacre of Vietnam protesters by the National Guard in 1970, in which four students were killed. Here's a CNN story [] on it.

This just in (4)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 13 years ago | (#451842)

Two teenagers were just picked up by the kent state campus police department for being 'lamers', and 'campers' in Quake.
They will be attempting for the death penalty for such disasterous crimes.


Re:Wait a second (5)

Skyshadow (508) | more than 13 years ago | (#451843)

Yep. Got to give them something for trying, though: Kent State has gone from outright shooting students exercising their civil liberties to simply harrassing them.


The streets of Kent State are safe again! (5)

Joseph Vigneau (514) | more than 13 years ago | (#451844)

Phew! My biggest fear about walking across the Kent State campus was walking around a dark corner and being accosted by metal-listening Starcraft players yelling "Die, terran scum!".

I can now breathe easier, thanks to that crack force of Kent State campus police!

Something missing from this story (5)

Quikah (14419) | more than 13 years ago | (#451845)

The cops supposedly raid the dorm room because of the website. Yet the website is still up. Then one of the students say they somehow contacted the wrong server when uploading the website? Uhh, OK.

I am guessing that either they were seriously harrasing people over the net, email bombs or some DOS attacks, or they were trying to crack someones system. We need to get the whole story before damning the cops on this one.

Revolution Never Ends (5)

HardCase (14757) | more than 13 years ago | (#451846)

When I went to college, it was Dungeons and Dragons. Remember? A few people went to extremes and somebody got killed at a midwestern college, then suddenly everybody who played the game was some kind of mentally deranged lunatic.

What is the problem? I think that it's a combination of hysteria and lack of communication. Take a look at the clan's web site. Looks scary, doesn't it. But in the context of the game, it's just in character. But since we're (I mean the collective "we're") gripped in a panic over the possibility of another Columbine, sites like these get special scrutiny. Do these guys deserve their treatment? Of course not. And in the end, the police will give back their stuff, the administration will issue some sort of press release praising the police for protecting the rest of the student body, implicitly suggest that the members of the clan are some kind of social deviants and then give a great sigh of relief that a potential disaster was averted.

Can we stop it? Probably not. Social inertia is a powerful force. This kind of thing has been going on for about as long as there have been universities.

On the other hand, over time, what was perceived as revolutionary becomes's just that the revolutionaries eventually forget just what is revolutionary.


Re:Oh so what. (5)

Hard_Code (49548) | more than 13 years ago | (#451847)

This could easily be mis-interpreted as a hacker attack.

Oh yeah, uploading via FTP to a mistyped ip address. REAL hacker attack there!

They are living on University property, the campus cops can do what they like.

No, cops cannot do what they like. We have people called judges who are supposed to use their wisdom to determine whether police can enter and search people's quarters. Unfortunately the police in their overreactionary stupidity probably blew this "threat" out of proportion to the judge who was probably all to willing to comply.

If anything bad had really happened, if this country were going into totalitarian meltdown as the /. editors would have us believe, we wouldn't hear about it in the first place.

But if we were, you'd be ignoring it right?

Nobody knows what real problems are anymore.

I consider steady erosion of rights by incompetents in power "real".

In the future (5)

British (51765) | more than 13 years ago | (#451848)

Several years from now, campus police or real police will raid Counterstrike/Quake/Firearms matches. No, they won't raid the students' dorms, but will show up as actual players in the game(complete with police skins). Any of the clans attempt to shoot one of these Police players will be charged with assaulting an officer and be taken to cs_jail.

They can then spraypaint their warrants somewhere on the map's walls.

Okay I made that up since I'm dyin for a cigarette.

Disturbing, but hardly surprising (5)

mdb31 (132237) | more than 13 years ago | (#451849)

Given the national hysteria over violence in schools, this is hardly surprising: the guy was using the Internet (gasp!) as well as using words like 'kill' (double gasp!) and thus must have been about to pop the entire population of his dorm anytime...

Disturbing? Yes. Surprising? No: if suspending children over pointing at a teacher with a chicken wing (potential deadly weapon!) and going 'bang' is OK, this makes sense as well.

This all is a result of this 'zero tolerance' thing that people seem to want (or at least don't protest against -- pretty much the same). When 'zero tolerance' towards drugs was new, students got suspended for keeping Tylenol in their lockers. But I guess it was worth it, since our schools are now 100% drug free and we're about to achieve the same for violence!

(exits stage left, laughing hysterically)

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