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EU To Sign ACTA Later This Month

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the end-of-the-line dept.

Censorship 168

rysiek writes "At a meeting of Polish Government officials with Polish NGOs and business representatives it was confirmed that the European Union is poised to sign the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement as soon as January 26th. But all is not lost. The Treaty still needs to be ratified by the Euro Parliament and member states individually. The ratification vote is important, as it is an either-or vote — if not ratified there, ACTA gets rejected in its entirety. The Ministry of Administration and Digitization is not amused and has asked the Prime Minister (who promised this May to hold ACTA adoption until the kinks are worked out) to cancel the signing authorization for the time being."

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168 comments

Oh, yeah! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38758610)

My bootyass is a turtleneck for the worst!
My bootyass is a turtleneck for the worst!
My bootyass is a turtleneck for the worst!
My bootyass is a turtleneck for the worst!
My bootyass is a turtleneck for the worst!

someone's pressing their agenda (5, Insightful)

tebee (1280900) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758620)

So who's bribed who to get this pushed through ?

DCMA, SOPA, ACTA ... (5, Insightful)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758888)

This world we live in - and I am not only talking about the cyberworld, - is turning into a place where every-single-thing gonna be monopolized by somebody

We can blame the governments.

We can blame Washington D.C.

We can blame the greedy politicians.

But IMHO it has passed time to point fingers.

It's *US*, yes, You and Me, who is responsible for this mess.

You see, it's *US* who have allowed the politicians we have elected to carry out all these bullshits.

The article talked about "all is not loss", WTF ??

What does it mean by "all is not loss" ??

We've given our politicians the blank check to pass all these bullshit bills, and still, we're saying "all is not loss" ??

Politicians we elected? You must be new here. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758950)

You see, it's *US* who have allowed the politicians we have elected to carry out all these bullshits.

The European politicians who are behind this sort of bullshit typically aren't elected in any meaningful sense. Indeed, quite a few EU Commissioners are very politically connected but basically unelectable in their own country; serial resigner Peter Mandelson was the UK's Commissioner for several years, for example.

There are also a few good ones, and I admit I'm a little surprised things have gotten this far with Neelie Kroes (who is normally well-informed and a voice of reason) currently serving as Commissioner for the Digital Agenda.

The only directly elected politicians in Europe are the MEPs. Let's hope they have a bit more spine than their colleagues. At least since the Lisbon Treaty one of the few significant improvements is that the MEPs do actually have real power, and seem to enjoy exercising it when it comes to getting in the way of the unelected Commissioners throwing their weight around.

Re:Politicians we elected? You must be new here. (4, Insightful)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758998)

I might be "new" here, but then ...

The European politicians who are behind this sort of bullshit typically aren't elected in any meaningful sense.

Well ...

Who puts them there ?

It might not be *US* who put them there directly but ultimately it's *US* who allow THE SYSTEM to put them there !!

In a democratic system - and I am talking about the *US* in democratic system - the SYSTEM ultimately falls under the control of the society - which is, the voters, like You, and Me, *US* !!

Re:Politicians we elected? You must be new here. (5, Informative)

Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759064)

EU Commissioners are appointed by their home government based on arbitrary criteria. Here in the UK, for example, that means the only way to prevent such an appointment is to not elect the entire administration that makes the appointment anything up to five years earlier. Clearly no-one is really going to change their one vote for the national government to another political party just so that the wrong EU Commissioner doesn't get appointed 4.5 years later, so there is really no democratic mandate or accountability at all.

Re:Politicians we elected? You must be new here. (3, Insightful)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759082)

EU Commissioners are appointed by their home government based on arbitrary criteria.

above emphasis mine

Well ... who are the "home governments" ?

Are those "home governments" elected government ?

Who elected the politicians who made up those "home governments" ?

As I said, ultimately the responsibility rest on *US* ----> You, and Me ----

We are the ones who have elected those politicians who supposed to represent us in the government.

We are the ones who are responsible for the mess.

Re:Politicians we elected? You must be new here. (4, Insightful)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759178)

Only most of the electorate is not sufficiently well informed to make a voting decision, and would most likely vote differently if they were in full possession of the facts.
Often the only, or at least the loudest source of "information" for most people, is media which is controlled by people affiliated with the two major parties, who therefore have no incentive to rock the boat.

Those of us who do bother to do our research are in such a small minority that our votes count for nothing, and because we do not control big media we have no way of making or voice heard by anyone, even if people would agree once being in full possession of the facts. Those who do control the media benefit greatly from the current system and have no incentive to change anything,

Re:Politicians we elected? You must be new here. (-1)

MaskedSlacker (911878) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759286)

You keep beating that drum Bob.

(At least it keeps him from eating the rat poison)

Re:Politicians we elected? You must be new here. (4, Informative)

bfandreas (603438) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759142)

The EU Parliament is elected. But the election is very low-key. Almost under the radar. Voting for the local mayor has a bigger campaign. When have you last seen campaign posters with that blue and circle of stars logo? I don't even know if the UK sends MPs to the EU Parliament. Seems like a political dead-end to me, anyway.

The EU Parliamant is a rather toothless, feeble thing due to the EU member countries not wanting to sign over sovereign rights. There are a couple of treaties for signing EU stuff into national law but most countries simply drag their feet. The process how this EU law-making process works is also not quite ideal...

The EU Commission is elected by gorvernments who themselves are elected. That's barely legitimate when it comes to democracy.

Re:Politicians we elected? You must be new here. (4, Interesting)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759536)

The MEP that I voted for campaigns for the FFII and she is part of a coalition that opposes ACTA. Unfortunately, this is being pushed through without the approval of the Parliament.

Re:Politicians we elected? You must be new here. (1)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759162)

Apology for having to reply to your message twice

...so there is really no democratic mandate or accountability at all

What do you mean by "no democratic mandate" ??

Aren't we, the voters, the one who put in those politicians in the first place ?

Without us, those politicians are not that much different from a garbage collector.

Why should we, the voters, resign to this "no democratic mandate" feeling when we are the one holding the ultimate key?

I mean, are we talking on the page regarding DEMOCRACY ?

Re:Politicians we elected? You must be new here. (2, Interesting)

the_arrow (171557) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759314)

There are also a few good ones, and I admit I'm a little surprised things have gotten this far with Neelie Kroes (who is normally well-informed and a voice of reason) currently serving as Commissioner for the Digital Agenda.

That might be because most of the ACTA stuff has apparently been handled by the EU fishery department.

Is this the same Kroes who failed so bad in her ow (1)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759982)

Is this the same Kroes who failed so bad in her own country? Minister of transport thanks to whose brilliant leadership competition on the rail network meant giving one company a tiny bit of rail (Amsterdam Zandvoort) and the new high speed link straight to the NS because you know, that encourages competition? Thanks to whose contracts that same NS can ignore some lines in its performance report and cancelled trains don't count towards the number of trains not driving on time?

Yeah, real competent.

really? So where are my options? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38759284)

No, it IS *them*.

We have a small part to play in the blame, but it's no good blaming the instructor for letting one of the fellow climbers unclip themselves from the rope and fall to their death when you're ignoring that it was the damn idiot playing around who is at fault.

Re:DCMA, SOPA, ACTA ... (4, Insightful)

Digital Vomit (891734) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759926)

It's *US*, yes, You and Me, who is responsible for this mess.

You see, it's *US* who have allowed the politicians we have elected to carry out all these bullshits.

I'm really sick and tired of this "blame the victim" mentality. The voting public has been under-educated, manipulated, and deceived by those who are either in or wanting power. Most voters don't even realize that it's happening, or, if they do, they feel powerless to change it (thanks, again, to those in/wanting power).

Stop trying to shift blame from where it really belongs: the people actually trying to enact these treaties and laws against the public's -- and human civilization's -- best interests!

Re:someone's pressing their agenda (1)

blind biker (1066130) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759032)

So who's bribed who to get this pushed through ?

I assume this is a rhetorical question, but in the extremely unlikely event that it isn't:

Bribers: big media and related corporate interests.
Bribed: the politicians.
(duhhh...)

Re:someone's pressing their agenda (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759898)

They don't have to resort to bribery any more. They just call the money 'campaign contributions' and it becomes legal. Favorable media coverage always helps too.

Re:someone's pressing their agenda (5, Insightful)

TheLink (130905) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759206)

The industry will always try to push it through, there's no significant penalty/cost for failing. So they can just keep trying till one day it gets signed.

They may not need to bribe (directly anyway)- don't be surprised if many people just look at the title see stuff like "anti counterfeiting", "stop online piracy", "protect intellectual property", and then think yeah good idea.

(Almost) Everyone is bribed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38759410)

A better question would be "who is not not bribed".
I can see clearly that my government is weak and is ruled by the EU and USA, rather than self-governed.

It is such a pity, after all we are the country which actually brought an end to communism...

Re:someone's pressing their agenda (1)

Joce640k (829181) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759716)

...and who chose Poland as the place to do it?

I can see the meeting now:

"Which country will be the easiest to bribe our way into?"

"It's close, between Spain and Poland ... but we think Polish politicians drink the most over dinner. We'd go with them."

Joking aside...this is how it's done.

Re:someone's pressing their agenda (1)

biodata (1981610) | more than 2 years ago | (#38760042)

An even better question would be who has the dirt on which politicians to coerce them into doing this. Sticks work better than carrots.

Blackout? (5, Interesting)

bfandreas (603438) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758626)

Will Wikipedia, Google and TotalBiscuit black out for us?
No?
Damn, we're screwed.

Picketing the EU Parliament won't work because most representatives don't show up anyway

:(

Re:Blackout? (5, Interesting)

Seumas (6865) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758668)

Of course they won't. People blew their wad on SOPA. They didn't give a fuck about the initial ACTA. They didn't give a fuck about NDAA. Hell, they didn't give a fuck about the PATRIOT Act. The flurry of activity against SOPA was an aberration.

Wow! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38758684)

All your dirty language gave me a stiffie.

Re:Blackout? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38758872)

There are lots of us that care, there's just fewer effective organizations that do. It's also harder to get politicians to do anything about something they've already passed, no matter how draconian and stupid, than it is anything they haven't passed yet.

Re:aberration (1)

TaoPhoenix (980487) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759086)

We enjoyed the rest from having to protest, for some twenty years, when life got back to being about pizza, drinks, and games.

Now we're in this really scary race to a frenzy that looks like the political oppression of other countries. And by race I mean drag car speed, not running.

Re:Blackout? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38758826)

TotalBiscuit of all people? :D

Did MaximusBlack black out for it canuckville?

Re:Blackout? (1)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758938)

Maybe a day of rampant and ubiquitous torrent seeding and downloading?

Bringing Europe to a standstill for a day would seem like a reasonable response to this.

Re:Blackout? (1)

bfandreas (603438) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759150)

Well, if EVERYBODY started to torrent porn or Top Gear(same thing, really) for one day and watched all of this then indeed Europe would come to a standstill.

Would anybody notice? I won't, because I will be torrenting porn and Top Gear.

Re:Blackout? (1)

bloblu (891170) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759530)

Picketing the EU Parliament won't work because most representatives don't show up anyway

Most actually means around 10% in this case: http://www.votewatch.eu/cx_epg_attendance.php [votewatch.eu] Attendance rate in the EP is pretty high, sorry to ruin your stereotype.

Re:Blackout? (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759556)

Picketing the EU Parliament won't do anything anyway. An email from my MEP in December:

Dear constituent,

Last week, EU government ministers agreed to the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement (ACTA). The agreement can now be signed by the Council Presidency on behalf of the EU. I strongly criticise this decision as concerns persist about the legality of the deal and the implications for fundamental rights.
Plaid Cymru's group in the European Parliament will continue to push for an assessment of the ACTA deal by the European Court of Justice.

Best wishes over the festive season,
Jill

Jill Evans MEP
Plaid Cymru

She's not the only one, but the Parliament can't do anything if the council of ministers decides to ignore it.

Re:Blackout? (1)

bfandreas (603438) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759586)

Yay for the Welsh. At least they stand by us.

But essentially she says we are all doomed. The only consolation is that we are not the only ones who will be able to proudly wear what essentially is a badge of shit. Every turd has its silver lining, as the saying goes. Don't ask me to search for it.

Explain this to an American programmer (3, Interesting)

MrEricSir (398214) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758634)

These types of EU processes seem very convoluted to an outsider, as lawmaking processes often do. Can somebody give me a flow chart or a UML diagram? Or even pseudocode is fine.

Re:Explain this to an American programmer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38758644)

If someone would just explain this for European programmers too.

Re:Explain this to an American programmer (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38758690)

And European lawmakers.

Re:Explain this to an American programmer (1, Funny)

zero.kalvin (1231372) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758718)

And European women as well. Well I had to ask!

Re:Explain this to an American programmer (4, Funny)

VortexCortex (1117377) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758780)

I thought women were covered under the "programmers" moniker, considering the first one was one.

That is to say, If you follow history: Ada Lovelace, the first programmer, was a woman; If you follow the bible: Eve, the first woman, was a programmer (of Adam)... It's told she used an Apple.

Re:Explain this to an American programmer (2)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758882)

If Eve was made from Adam's rib then genetically she's male. So yes, probably an Apple user.

Re:Explain this to an American programmer (1)

bfandreas (603438) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759170)

Technically they are very much not male.

Female XX vs. Male XY.

I guess your feminine side is on her morning coffee break, yes?

Re:Explain this to an American programmer (0)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759278)

"And from the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man."

Sounds like cloning to me, and no mention of modifying chromosomes.

Perhaps you're the one who needs the caffeine. That or a course in reading comprehension.

Re:Explain this to an American programmer (1)

dotancohen (1015143) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759724)

"And from the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man."

Sounds like cloning to me, and no mention of modifying chromosomes.

Perhaps you're the one who needs the caffeine. That or a course in reading comprehension.

The "rib" is the chromosome. The word in Hebrew is Tzela, which is used for anything bar-like: ribs, the sides of a triangle, braces on a bracket. In the original language, much of Genesis actually coincides nicely with the things that we have learned only in the past few centuries and decades. Not all of it, but much more than even Asimov probably suspected when he wrote "How it happened".

Re:Explain this to an American programmer (2)

reve_etrange (2377702) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759920)

That only makes sense if Adam was made from Eve, since the Y chromosome is essentially a degenerate X with the SRY (sexual selection) gene and a handful of others. Over time the mammalian Y tends to shrink, so that eventually it only holds the SRY - witness the kangaroo.

Even genetically male humans are physiologically female during the first weeks of development.

Anyway, does ancient Hebrew even have another word that just means "rib?" If not, then you're just interpolating.

Re:Explain this to an American programmer (1)

duneo (1220936) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759960)

I wonder how many people get this interesting coincidence.
24 ribs 24 (DIFFERENT) chromosomes in a man. (22 are doubled + X + Y)
24 - 1 = 23 (DIFFERENT) chromosomes in a woman. (all 23 are doubled)
Just remove a rib.

Re:Explain this to an American programmer (1)

HopefulIntern (1759406) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758894)

Lilith was the first woman, if we are doing mythology here. Came before Adam and Eve.

Re:Explain this to an American programmer (1)

sempir (1916194) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759680)

Lilith was the first woman, if we are doing mythology here. Came before Adam and Eve.

However if we are doing mythterology here then Fred wath the firtht man.

A flowchart would just hide the facts (2)

ciaran_o_riordan (662132) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758892)

In the EU, it has to be approved by the Council of Ministers and the European Parliament.

I'm not sure if there's any diagram that would make things clearer. Diagrams present formalities that mask the political reality of the decision making process.

Remember when software patents were put on the agenda of the fisheries committee? Procedures include flexibility...

Blocking ACTA isn't about spotting something on a map, it's about talking to our representatives and saying "We don't want this". (Council of Ministers is made up of the relevant ministers from the national governments, and the European Parliament is made up of our MEPs).

Re:Explain this to an American programmer (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38759136)

Perhaps the standard MIGO (Money in, Garbage out) algorithm is used. Someone really should patent this business methods algorithm.

Re:Explain this to an American programmer (5, Informative)

Zarhan (415465) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759180)

Here you go:

http://ec.europa.eu/codecision/stepbystep/diagram_en.htm [europa.eu]

Technically, we are about to complete step 1.

Re:Explain this to an American programmer (1)

MisterMidi (1119653) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759390)

That's the European Commission, not the European Union. There's a difference. But I'm sure the EU decision making process is equally complex.

Re:Explain this to an American programmer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38759544)

That's the European Commission, not the European Union. There's a difference. But I'm sure the EU decision making process is equally complex.

Wut?
The commission is part of the union. My understanding is the commission writes the laws then the EU parliament votes to accept, reject or amend.
[The parliament might propose it's own laws directly as well (?) but the commission is part of the process]

SOPA (1)

BiggerIsBetter (682164) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758636)

So SOPA was a diversion?

Re:SOPA (3, Insightful)

TaoPhoenix (980487) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758836)

Nah, not a diversion, the politicians expected the same Blase mood that let them pass every other evil bill. It would have been a counterpart piece as a matched set for ACTA (one domestic, one foreign).

We did manage to scare them *just a little* but there's just so far to go still. The current score is something like Lobbies 97 People 3.

ACTA bad, Piracy good. (5, Insightful)

metrix007 (200091) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758672)

Stuff like ACTA is bad, because piracy is inevitable. I don't think we should be trying to prevent piracy at all, as piracy is actually a good thing.

Firstly, it is copying. It isn't stealing. If it was just stealing the term piracy would not need to have been invented as distinct from stealing. Keep in mind that the word Piracy has existed for about 500 years, and only in the last decade or so has come to be taken as stealing.

Why is Piracy good?

  1. Guaranteed DRM free content - I don't want someone else in control of something I own
  2. Availability, instead of waiting up to 1.5 years if the studios decide that it should be available in my country.
  3. I believe it's good for society. Allowing people who can't afford something to be influenced and give back to society.
  4. It helps the artists. Almost every study about piracy posted on /. shows it leads to an increase in sales

Keep in mind piracy is legal in many countries, for good reason. This is an important point for people who rely on the piracy is stealing argument. Those countries tend to be smarter about such matters than the US and western Europe.

Piracy is not going away. Piracy is inevitable. Why waste so many resources on what is arguably a good thing?

Re:ACTA bad, Piracy good. (3, Insightful)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758700)

When did the ruling elites ever give a fuck about the common good?

Re:ACTA bad, Piracy good. (3, Insightful)

Mashiki (184564) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758770)

Never. But then again, Cicero figured that out 2000ish years ago. I always figured that the classics should be required reading if you're going to be a politician.

Re:ACTA bad, Piracy good. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38758710)

Whelp! I'm out of here. I really don't care to see the incoming posts that claim that piracy is evil and that pirates are thieves. I really don't care to see the posts where anti-copyright people call everyone who disagrees with them shills.

Re:ACTA bad, Piracy good. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38758808)

Piracy is good because you can get something for nothing.

Freetard. Do you work for nothing? Thought not. Why should anyone else.

Taking something you should have paid for without consent is stealing. It doesn't matter that you left a copy behind, you have something that you should have paid for but haven't.

Re:ACTA bad, Piracy good. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38758860)

copyright infringement != Theft.

Really, it's not a hard concept. I didn't steal ANYTHING from the person who first put the idea together. I copied (i.e. I made a whole new object) which I now have. You might say it's wrong, but it is not in any way stealing.

Now all that being said, there are quite literally millions of ways for a creator to make money in a world with out copyrights. One very obvious way is through the use of commissions. Others include public performances, merchandise related to the idea, ect...

Re:ACTA bad, Piracy good. (2)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758908)

Now all that being said, there are quite literally millions of ways for a creator to make money in a world with out copyrights. One very obvious way is through the use of commissions. Others include public performances, merchandise related to the idea, ect...

Literally? Really?

In any case, would you do your job on that basis? No, so you have no right at all to tell others that they should.

Re:ACTA bad, Piracy good. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38758956)

If someone does their job, they get paid once for it, otoh a rights holder gets paid time and time again, life+70 years. You cannot compare the two, the current system is broken.

Re:ACTA bad, Piracy good. (2)

metrix007 (200091) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758972)

It no longer makes sense to have a business model that doesn't take piracy into account. It isn't telling people how they should choose to profit, it's making them realize that some people are going to copy their shit and they cannot stop it. So they should use that to their advantage as much as possible.

Re:ACTA bad, Piracy good. (5, Insightful)

Xest (935314) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758986)

"In any case, would you do your job on that basis? No, so you have no right at all to tell others that they should."

Not sure about the AC, but I know I do. I turn up to work each day, write code, and get paid for being at work to write code. What happens to that code when it's left my desk and gone to clients I really don't care about, it could be copied and reused as many times as they want it to, the point is I've been paid whilst I've been actually working, not continued to be paid long after I've stopped working. This is the case with public performances too.

See the point is the vast majority of the world's working population (like on the order of 99.99% of it or maybe even more) already work around the "public performances" type concept - they get paid for actually turning up and doing something. The problem musicians have is they're too lazy, they don't want to work the hours people in almost every other profession do, they just want to do a few hours every few weeks, with the option to take a few years out, and still make millions.

They complain if it's not profitable for them to do this, but so fucking what? It's not profitable for me to sit playing CoD online all day every day, but it doesn't mean I still have the right to do it and make millions in the process - life isn't like that, if you can't provide something the market wants then you need to retrain to do something you can, the world doesn't owe you employment doing your preferred task, in your preferred way.

So excuse me if I have zero sympathy for the whining artists, it's not my fucking fault they're lazy layabouts who refuse to do what most of the rest of the working population has to. So assuming the GP has a job like nearly everyone else in the working population has, then yes he fucking does have the right to tell others how to work - he has the right because it'd mean he's working his way through life, providing something the world wants and is willing to pay for and shouldn't have to subsidise lazy bum artists who feel the world owes them through all sorts of legislation set up to support their lazy lifestyles through lobbying and corruption.

I similarly have the right to tell artists to turn up and actually do some work for a living if they want money, because I provide something the world is willing to pay for and I do so day in, day out. The should also expect only money proportional to the work they do - i.e. if they only want to a few hours work every few weeks or months, then only expect a few hours pay every few weeks or months. The current system despite piracy, already provides them plenty more than that, if they don't like it they can change professions like anyone else would have to, this is why they don't have a leg to stand on whatsoever when they cry about piracy - because they're no more fucking special than anyone else, despite their belief that they are.

I'll start to have sympathy for the profession when there's no more new music in the world. I'll be waiting forever though, because people have always made music, even when there's no money in it, simply because to many, they do it as a recreational thing, rather than an expectation of something to live off.

Re:ACTA bad, Piracy good. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38759340)

If metrix007 has a normal job, then they already do that - it's artists/creators that are getting the special deal here.

Every day that metrix007 goes to work (and gets paid for doing so) is the equivalent of a public performance. If not at work (barring holidays for sanity and so on), no money is awarded.

Perhaps you should rethink your argument.

Re:ACTA bad, Piracy good. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38759732)

If my job could be done using computers - companies like MPAA would replace me ASAP. So any job cut later on that is directly related to computers/robots/some other means of automation should be payed back to goverments! i love it how they did it in Japan, robots pay Prof Union fees. I propose to go further and make any company that produces anything using robots/computers pay goverment fees in ammount of human force those companies save on machines.

From my point of view, if it can be so easilly produced, why it supposed to be so pricey?

LAWFULLY limit those companies who produce goods at very small costs to very small incomes! Everything else should go into goverment pocket, which in its case should pay for schools, for roads, for medicine, etc. After all, all those companies are using wisdom and information created by generations of our all common ancestors! If they use wheels in any shape or form, let them also pay tax for that! I dont see difference them abusing wheels and someone else 'abusing' copyright information or patents.

If you create CD disk, which only cost u a few hundred/thousands euros to record in the music studio and than later just pretty much copy paste on disks where all process cost you less than a buck, and than you sell it for millions of copies, I frankly see no harm in copying it. To the point where everyone else's job is paid for.

This whole copyright thing is just redicolous.

Re:ACTA bad, Piracy good. (2)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759962)

The production costs of music are tiny - the music video usually costs far more. The bulk of the expenses in an album are actually promotion costs: Getting the music on the radio, advertised on TV, posters, paying stores to place it prominantly in the window, getting the performer into TV interviews. Anything to raise awareness and thus sales.

Labels, like movie studios, tend to fiddle the numbers on that though. They'll pay a huge promotion cost to another division within the company and use such tricks to make sure that many albums and movies never actually show a profit, or show very little. That means lower royalties to pay the artist, and much less to pay in taxes.

Re:ACTA bad, Piracy good. (1)

metrix007 (200091) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758960)

It certainly isn't stealing in a legal sense in many places. You can argue it is stealing in a moral sense, although that is hard to do without proving a lost sale.

Re:ACTA bad, Piracy good. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38759054)

If I build you a house is it reasonable to expect that I can charge you every time you enter it? No? Why should any other profession be allowed to continuously profit without doing more work. You get paid for the work you do, and then you're done. I would have no problem with copyrights if there was a monetary cap in place that would automatically shift it into the public domain once the criteria was met. Perhaps initial investment +30% or in the case of an artist perhaps $5000 a song (random figures) and once that cap was met, free for all.

Re:ACTA bad, Piracy good. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38758918)

Somalia?

Re:ACTA bad, Piracy good. (0)

Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759008)

Firstly, it is copying. It isn't stealing.

It's more like fraud. And fraud is a criminal offence with substantial penalties in many places, because it is damaging to the victims, is unfair to those who conduct their financial business legally, and can have severe economic consequences if done on a large scale.

Keep in mind that the word Piracy has existed for about 500 years, and only in the last decade or so has come to be taken as stealing.

Well, the first recorded usage of the term in the sense we're talking about is given in the early 1700s by most etymological dictionaries, so you're only off by three centuries [etymonline.com]. Hey, at least you were close.

Keep in mind piracy is legal in many countries, for good reason.

Which ones? And how successful are the creative industries in those countries?

It helps the artists. Almost every study about piracy posted on /. shows it leads to an increase in sales

Well, given that Slashdot readership is obviously neutral on this issue, I'm sure that's a representative sample of the literature.

I'm also struggling to find all those studies, but I suppose it's just that my Google-fu is weak. Maybe you could help me out by citing some of them?

Piracy is not going away. Piracy is inevitable.

Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of abundant high-quality work created by people who have rent to pay.

Re:ACTA bad, Piracy good. (1)

Dr_Barnowl (709838) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759212)

It appears to boost...

  • Anime DVD sales [rieti.go.jp]
  • Sales of songs and albums online, as well as music subscriptions [ifpi.org]
  • (and fewer physical CDs, but this was supposed to be a report about online sales).

    There's also evidence to suggest that piracy can really help the little guy :

    Piracy trumps obscurity [lazaruscorporation.co.uk] .. so it's not all black and white. These were all picked off the first page of a search for "piracy boosts sales", so your Google-fu is indeed weak.. or your heart just isn't in it

    It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.
      Upton Sinclair US novelist & socialist politician (1878 - 1968)

Re:ACTA bad, Piracy good. (2)

metrix007 (200091) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759270)

It's more like fraud. And fraud is a criminal offence with substantial penalties in many places, because it is damaging to the victims,

You may be the first I have seen who compares piracy to being more like fraud than stealing. I don't understand your reasoning, could you elaborate?

is unfair to those who conduct their financial business legally, and can have severe economic consequences if done on a large scale.

How is it unfair to people who do their business legally? How is it unfair in a legal sense where piracy is legal? How are there severe economic consequences when piracy has been shown to have positive effects for the economy?

Well, the first recorded usage of the term in the sense we're talking about is given in the early 1700s by most etymological dictionaries, so you're only off by three centuries [etymonline.com]. Hey, at least you were close.

Wiki says [wikipedia.org] at least since 1603, so at the most I was off by a century.

Well, given that Slashdot readership is obviously neutral on this issue, I'm sure that's a representative sample of the literature.

I'm also struggling to find all those studies, but I suppose it's just that my Google-fu is weak. Maybe you could help me out by citing some of them?

The slashdot readership is irrelevant, as they had no influence on the studies that Slashdot chose to report.

Some links to studies:

Do Illegal Copies of Movies Reduce the Revenue of Legal Products? The case of TV animation in Japan [rieti.go.jp]

Swiss Government Study Finds Internet Downloads Increase Sales [forbes.com]

Canadian Study: Piracy Boosts CD Sales [torrentfreak.com]

I hope that helped. You're Google-fu must indeed be weak.

Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of abundant high-quality work created by people who have rent to pay.

You seem to imply that piracy will prevent the people who create high quality work from being able to pay their rent. That doesn't seem to match with the evidence. Care to elaborate?

Re:ACTA bad, Piracy good. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38759496)

As a thought experiment, let's close down everything that started out on either the shady side of the law, or by taking actions specifically to circumvent it. From the top of my head, for starters that would be:

* The major film studios (the location of Hollywood was chosed quite specifically to get around paying others for their work)
* Apple computers (founders were phone phreakers)
* My country's largest radio station (started out as a pirate station)
* NASCAR (get-together of moonshine runners)

But i'm quite sure this list can go on and on.

This is fun! While we're at it, let's also close down most governments, as nearly all indepent countries started out by illegal rebellions against whatever ruled them at the time.

Re:ACTA bad, Piracy good. (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#38760108)

Might as well throw in broadband internet. Back when it first caught on, this was before legal music downloads were available, and before TV downloading was even possible. Piracy was really a prime motivator for people to get off the modem. Even the ISPs seemed to recognise this in their advertising, boasting that users could 'download a song' in minutes. Where did they think people were getting the music from?

Re:ACTA bad, Piracy good. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38759522)

>Availability, instead of waiting up to 1.5 years if the studios decide that it should be available in my country.

This one in particular is the best point for most people.

I like some Japanese content that I rarely EVER get over here.
I'd love to pay the people who create it. (and do when I can)
But sadly, due to the absolute mess of laws and cost of exporting, EVEN UNTRANSLATED, is too much for some.
Let's not forget the HUGE number of games released in Japan that never make it out its borders simply due export annoyances.

Region-locked content is retarded since it is ALWAYS language based. What about all those people who wish to continue watching their favorite shows after they leave the country, or continue consuming those magazines, but they can't due to the fact that it isn't there anymore?
A completely honest person driven to piracy because of obtuse region-locking export crap.
Satellite is only just beginning to get rid of those obtuse region laws for TV and some radio, but only for a small subset of content in most cases.
Hopefully China throw a bunch more satellites up there with a collab with Astra so more Asian content can be broadcast to the world. Astra changed the world drastically for communication of content over Europe, North Africa and East Asia. Their reach is probably even further since this was the last time I checked back in 2000~

Re:ACTA bad, Piracy good. (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759928)

"Piracy has existed for about 500 years, and only in the last decade or so has come to be taken as stealing."

Piracy originally meant theft in international water, which was very much theft. I don't know when it first became used as a term for copyright infringement, or by whome.

Suck it world. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38758706)

All the other countries are just little bitches for the USA now.

It's ok. You can still hate us, we give you permission for that. Just so long as you bend over when we say.
You'll all do as you're told. Or else you might walk into a door and get hurt.

Re:Suck it world. (2)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758924)

All the other countries are just little bitches for the USA now.

While all the other countries are little bitches for the USA, USA is a little bitch for the Hollywood moguls

Re:Suck it world. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38759756)

Hey at least we're #2 on the foodchain.

For now.

Could be good? (1)

aztektum (170569) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758724)

I am out of touch with each countries individual stance on ACTA. Could this be a good thing if enough countries are against it. A wait could afford more time to bring holdouts in line?

Re:Could be good? (4, Insightful)

gutnor (872759) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758832)

The Eurozone is in quite a deep crisis right now, even if ACTA is bad, a lot of countries are facing worse right now. It is possible that the countries will no want to undermine the union right now when the rating agencies are looking at any excuse to downgrade another country.

It is also possible, especially in countries close to election, that politicians will want to show some backbone against Brussel on such an easy to hate agreement.

Time will tell, as a European, I don't hold my breath. Those agreements take an awful lot of effort to be rejected - look at what it took for the SOPA thing in the US - and they come back slightly changed over and over again. They will pass, it is just a matter of time, unfortunately.

Re:Could be good? (2)

bfandreas (603438) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759204)

Have you ever personally been voting for EU Parliament? Have you ever cared about voting for it? I never had.

We only notice the EU whenever we pay with Euro coins from exotic countries, some money seems to be missing in some Euro countries, there are new member states or there is some huge scandal within the EU Comission which will promptly be reported on page 5 of your newspaper. Somewhere in the Male/Male/Nutella classified ads.

No wonder that nobody will notice this. And it is an issue that is percieved as a technical issue and what do we care about technical issues? That's the silent majority for you.

prime minister bit is about poland only (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38758874)

The Ministry of Administration and Digitization is not amused and has asked the Prime Minister (who promised this May to hold ACTA adoption until the kinks are worked out) to cancel the signing authorization for the time being.

This bit, the last sentence, is about Poland only, one of the 27 EU member states.

There are no ministers in the EU government, I think the closest would the comissioners in the EU Comission (EU government/executive branch) whose head is the president. And there are several vice-presidents among the comissioners.

Though there is the Council of the EU aka Council of Ministers. This council consists of one minister from each member states depending on the topic of discussion. Agriculture ministers when discussing agriculture etc.

Well, this one is kind of lost... (4, Interesting)

blind biker (1066130) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758958)

Unfortunately, the "rich cocksuckers" (just citing Carlin) are influential, and have been projecting their influence all around the world. An EU politician isn't any better than any US politician - in both cases, corporate psychopaths tend to percolate up the chain of power, and therefore, have no quibbles being bribed and acting in their own interest vs. the interest of everyone.

This *could* be stopped if there were a concerted action like the one resisting SOPA/PIPA, but there isn't. There is no time even to mount a half-buttocked campaign, at this point.

I would love to be proven wrong.

Re:Well, this one is kind of lost... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38759816)

Putting everything on corruption and self-interest seems wrong.

I believe that corporations have stronger lobbies than any other parties, thus the politicians always hear the same side of story over and over again, and act upon it.
So they're mostly misinformed, and waiving the possibility of lost jobs and shrinking economy is enough to force them to act quickly.

Re:Well, this one is kind of lost... (1)

rmstar (114746) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759918)

I believe that corporations have stronger lobbies than any other parties, thus the politicians always hear the same side of story over and over again, and act upon it.
So they're mostly misinformed, and waiving the possibility of lost jobs and shrinking economy is enough to force them to act quickly.

It also happens that lobbyists have their agents in key secondary positions of government. Secretaries, for example, and those that take care of the protocols in meetings, etc. So sometimes, they can manage to get a piece of info early, remove a sentence from a declaration, or at least change its meaning a bit, etc. Often, no more power is needed to nudge things into a shape that is closer to your liking. In particular, if you can keep at it for long enough.

Also, politicians have to rely on law firms to write laws, and these law firms are an easier target for lobbyism than politicians. They can sneak in stuff that looks pretty innocent, but actually changes the meanings of things. Like, for example, the dreadful "as such" in the provision against software patents in the EU, which has been used to remove a tooth or two of that provision. Politicians normally do not have the sophistication to detect this kind of tampering, or even more crucially, detect that it is happening on purpose.

Public opinion normally overlooks these hidden layer of power, believing that the politicians are everything that matters. We should change this.

EDRi has launched: What's Wrong with ACTA Week (4, Informative)

Alain Williams (2972) | more than 2 years ago | (#38758968)

European Digital Rights has launched http://www.edri.org/ACTA_Week [edri.org] with 5 one page briefings that you can send to your National and Euro member of parliaments. Please do so, it will not take you long.

We used to make jokes (0)

Mick R (932337) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759160)

about the Poles being a bunch of morons until that became politically unacceptable. This does nothing but reinforce the original opinion.

Re:We used to make jokes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38759846)

Oh, too bad. Is it still political acceptable to make jokes about Americans being bunch of fat retards?

Sharing is not distribution (2)

peawormsworth (1575267) | more than 2 years ago | (#38759176)

Piracy is a bad word because it implies theft. Sharing is not theft and it is godly in that sharing is wat allows humans to express humanity. Distribution companies would like u to lump the too together and then call it all immoral and illegal. We need to fight this because it should never be illegal for u to share wat u rightfully own. Not sharing is generally a selfish option. But it should be a choice of the owner not the manufacturer. I can choose to share my car, my shelter, my food, my tools. The problem is distribution. Providing free copies of ur owned goods to people u dont know. That is wat big corporations do and historically it costs a lot of money to do this. Thus large distributors could charge a lot of money for providing this service. Now that the Internet came along and provided a very very cheap mechanism to distribute, the corporations who do this are finding it difficult to justify the amount they charge for this service. Effectively it costs $0 to distribute now. This is a problem for those who depend on this expense in order to justify expensive products and subsequent huge profits. Instead of adjusting to the new paradigm, it is easier and more profitable for them to attempt to legislate it away. I feel we are doing great harm by introducing laws to stifle progress in an attempt to protect the profits of companies who are now obviously just trying to limit new channels of competition. In the end, I expect these old companies r just shooting themselves in the foot by not embracing these new efficient channels of delivery. These companies would be better served by reducing prices and improving access to content. They could be beating the pirate companies at their own game. Look at wat apple has done in the music distribution industry. If the major players in the music industry had of acted faster to give people wat they wanted legally, then they wouldnt have to be giving apple such a large slice of their pie now. Maybe I am naive, but I think the majority of people DONT want to steal movies and music... they just dont want to be ripped off. Because inside, we all know that is exactly wat is happening. And the "theft" is justified based on this gut instinct.
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