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The Coda Electric Car at the Detroit International Auto Show (Video)

Roblimo posted more than 2 years ago | from the maybe-enough-battery-life-to-get-you-to-work-and-back dept.

Technology 284

Last week Timothy Lord looked at the Tesla Model S. He also took a quick look at the CODA electric car. Like Tesla, CODA is based in California. Like Tesla, CODA is building purely electric, "plug-in" cars. But unlike Tesla, CODA is making a bland but practical sedan that can go up to 150 miles on a charge and costs about $37,000. That's not exactly a Kia-competitive price, even though Tim says it looks kind of like a Kia. But it's 100% electric and costs less than a Tesla -- really, hardly more than a Nissan Leaf. And it has a fully-usable back seat and a decent-sized trunk. And unlike the Nissan Leaf, it's made right here in the good old USA.

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Made in the USA (2, Interesting)

slackware 3.6 (2524328) | more than 2 years ago | (#38790771)

And will probably have to stay there last week we had temperatures of -37C with wind chill of -49C. We could hardly get you dino fuel vehicles to work. 4 years ago it was -52C with no wind chill when I woke up in the morning. My fancy lion powered drills stop working at -10C and will not charge below 0C or above 30C.

Re:Made in the USA (1)

luther349 (645380) | more than 2 years ago | (#38790811)

kinda funny we just had strong storms all night in January. dunno what happend to the snow lol.

6.6 kW/240VAC input (5, Insightful)

slackware 3.6 (2524328) | more than 2 years ago | (#38790829)

And if you buy one you are going to need to hire an electrician. And if you rent or live in a condo/apartment try finding a 240v plug in the parkade. Or a landlord that will let you install one. And power in 15c a kW/h plus transmission charges 33c per kW/h.

Re:6.6 kW/240VAC input (1)

JaredOfEuropa (526365) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791125)

Odd, why didn't they add an option to charge from a standard 120V socket? At whatever the power rate is in the US for standard sockets (over here it's 3.6kW), charging would be slower but it's better than nothing.

Re:6.6 kW/240VAC input (1)

slackware 3.6 (2524328) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791203)

They do have a 110 charger as a backup so I imagine it would be slower.

Re:6.6 kW/240VAC input (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38791443)

In the US the standard outlet has 1.875 kW available, and that's pushing the breaker JUST to the tripping point. On most items drawing that much power, the plug end heats up too... :( Since you are permitted up to ~12 duplex outlets on one of those breakers, you had better hope you chose a circuit with nothing else plugged in, and that nobody else in the parkade within 20 spaces of you has an electric car.

So, that's 3.52 times slower. I believe the Tesla takes a full day to charge from flat from a standard US outlet.

Re:6.6 kW/240VAC input (3, Informative)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791143)

Not even close to being true. The average cost in America for electricity is around .11/kwh. The transmission costs, are rarely variable, but fixed. That way, it can be broken out. OTH, when the transmission costs are variable, they are rolled into the costs. And transmission costs are less than .02/kwh. In addition, a number of electric companies give price breaks for charging in the middle of the night.

Even with that, .33 KWH is still less than $3/gal gas. And I doubt that we will see 3/gal gas.

Re:6.6 kW/240VAC input (1)

jeffmeden (135043) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791147)

And if you buy one you are going to need to hire an electrician. And if you rent or live in a condo/apartment try finding a 240v plug in the parkade. Or a landlord that will let you install one. And power in 15c a kW/h plus transmission charges 33c per kW/h.

33c per kwh? wat? Is that canadian dollars? "expensive" in the US is 14c.

(yes i know that the exch. rate has been even for some time)

Re:6.6 kW/240VAC input (1)

slackware 3.6 (2524328) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791223)

$255 for 780 kW/h on my last bill and the next bill is supposed the be an extra 2c per kW/h.

Re:6.6 kW/240VAC input (1)

jeffmeden (135043) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791581)

$255 for 780 kW/h on my last bill and the next bill is supposed the be an extra 2c per kW/h.

zomg where do you live, the north pole? ~600kw/h is my monthly average and that runs me about $70 USD.

Re:6.6 kW/240VAC input (2)

slackware 3.6 (2524328) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791791)

Alberta and there is rumour our power could double to triple in the next two years. Our power companies are trying to export to the US and build the infrastructure off our wallets. It has gotten steadily worse since the Conservative party deregulated power saying it would get cheaper. I personally want to move to a different province but the wife says no.

Re:6.6 kW/240VAC input (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38791191)

You are getting ripped off on electricity. I pay about 15c a kWh and that is the power plus transmission charges. You are paying 3 times as much.

Re:6.6 kW/240VAC input (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38791417)

And power in 15c a kW/h plus transmission charges 33c per kW/h.

15 cents is kind of high. 33 cents is rape. Where the hell do you live?

I'm paying 8.8 cents per kW/h, total (that is including transmission charges). I could have paid 12 cents, and then they would have told me it all comes from wind power, but I'm too poor for that. Granted, I live in Houston Texas, and energy is a little cheap here, but the most you can pay locally is 14 cents. If I lived a bit south of here (Corpus Cristi), I would be paying closer to 6 cents kW/h.

Re:Made in the USA (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38790903)

Somehow I'm guessing you might also need to drive more than 150 miles (241.4 km) at a time. I don't think you're the intended audience for this vehicle.

Electric Charging Stations (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38790803)

I went to Cracker Barrel for breakfast this past weekend. Oddly enough, they had three electric car charging stations near the front entrance. I had to laugh because in all three parking spaces was parked a gas guzzler. For the concept to work, you'd need to instate laws to ticket non-electric vehicles or put the spaces so far away that fat people would stay away from them. Unfortunately, you only need an IQ of about 50 to drive and absolutely no manners whatsoever, so it's going to be a difficult problem to solve.

Re:Electric Charging Stations (0, Troll)

slackware 3.6 (2524328) | more than 2 years ago | (#38790877)

The malls/some stores around here have special parking spots for hybrid/electric cars that are closer to the entrance than the handicapped spots in some cases. Not one of the parking spots was being used last time I was at the mall. Driving an EV does not make you more worthy of a parking spot than anyone else.

Re:Electric Charging Stations (4, Informative)

vlm (69642) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791031)

The malls/some stores around here have special parking spots for hybrid/electric cars that are closer to the entrance than the handicapped spots in some cases. .... Driving an EV does not make you more worthy of a parking spot than anyone else.

It does. You/everyone is paying a couple bucks per foot for that buried heavy gauge wire, so the closer the charger is to the entrance, the less you are paying the electrician, who is paid by the mall owner, who is paid by the shopkeeper, who is paid by ... you.

So its in everyones financial best interests to have the charger as close to the building as possible. Even if you drive a gas guzzler.

The only people who benefit by putting it further away are the copper wire manufacturers.

Re:Electric Charging Stations (1)

kenh (9056) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791127)

Special EV parkeing spot does not mean "Free Electic car charging station" - it simply means a specially-designated patch of asphalt in the parking lot.

Your justification based on the cost of running wires doesn't apply.

Re:Electric Charging Stations (1)

slackware 3.6 (2524328) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791145)

Maybe I was not clear there are no chargers just little green signs that say "Electric/Hybrid vehicles only". At Kingsway mall in Edmonton they used to be handicap spots.

Re:Electric Charging Stations (4, Informative)

kenh (9056) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791319)

So its in everyones financial best interests to have the charger as close to the building as possible. Even if you drive a gas guzzler.

No, it's in everyone's financial best interest for plug-in electric car owners to charge their car at home, and not soak the local shop owner for the electricity their cars consume.

Here's an interesting article on the growing number of charging stations [wsj.com] from the WSJ last October:

Charging equipment is popping up largely because of subsidies. As part of a $5 billion federal program to subsidize development of electric vehicles and battery technology, the U.S. Energy Department over the past two years provided about $130 million for two pilot projects that help pay for chargers at homes, offices and public locations.

With less than 20,000 EVs on the road today, that works out to over $6,500 per EV, and since the subsidies only pay for a part of the expense, which can run $2,000 - 7,000 per charger, it's safe to say we have at least two chargers for every EV in the country.

Re:Electric Charging Stations (1)

vlm (69642) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791763)

which can run $2,000 - 7,000 per charger,

Having worked with large industrial scale battery chargers for forklifts and telco C.O.s in the past, I see there is around a 5x to 10x corruption level going on there.

I'm sure its possible for there to be $5K of profit on the table ready to be taken, but corruption doesn't prove the actual cost is that high.

Re:Electric Charging Stations (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38791037)

It makes you more worthy of an EV parking spot, which was the Parent Commenters' point.

Re:Electric Charging Stations (2)

Bill_the_Engineer (772575) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791155)

I'm sure it has more to do with how easily power can be routed to these spots and the marketing value that these spots may possess. If your trying to appear to be trendy and "green" you want to make sure people have to walk by your charging stations. You don't want to hide them at the back of the parking lot.

Also, I think it is meant to incentivize buying an electric vehicle. Power companies usually sponsor these sites and want to entice people to buy electric.

Driving an EV does not make you more worthy of a parking spot than anyone else.

It may. Speaking as someone who drives gasoline powered vehicles, I see nothing wrong with rewarding people for making choices that benefit our environment AND our (lackluster) energy policy. Similar to bus stops being at the mall entrances, EV charging stations can be more convenient than regular parking places.

Personally I don't place a high value on a parking place being close to the store. I like to take any opportunity to walk since I spend too much time at work behind a desk. I don't want to walk 6 miles each way to the store, so I drive there and walk a more manageable distance in the parking lot. Including the shopping itself, it's surprising how much distance you'd walk.

Re:Electric Charging Stations (4, Insightful)

slackware 3.6 (2524328) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791419)

Maybe I was not clear there are no chargers just little green signs that say "Electric/Hybrid vehicles only". At Kingsway mall in Edmonton they used to be handicap spots. Also someone has to pay which ultimately is the consumer my second car is a 95 neon that gets almost 40 mpg when the motor or transmission breaks I go to the wrecking yard and buy a used one for $100 to $200. One sometimes two Sundays and it is back on the road and I take the old motor to be melted for scrap, fluids are recycled, rubber is recycled and when its time for another neon (neons are my car of choice due to parts availability and ease of repair) my old one goes the the wrecker and I get $75 a ton for the scrap. Now which is more environmentally responsible my neon or a super expensive EV that most people can not afford.

Re:Electric Charging Stations (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38791815)

Fair point. However, I think most people can agree that while electric cars are currently less than ideal, in the long term the shift towards them is a good idea, the tech just needs to develop more and infrastructure needs to be established. And how do you do that? You encourage the early adopters so that an ecosystem can develop around them. Just like hardcore computer gamers are largely to thank for our current blazing-fast computers and fast 3D rendering on phones - they made it profitable to push the boundaries, and later generations of the tech could then "trickle down" into consumer devices.

Re:Electric Charging Stations (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38791927)

I paid out the ass for my fancy 3D graphics and all the CPU's I burnt up overclocking the government didn't subsidise my CPU addiction.

Re:Electric Charging Stations (4, Funny)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791533)

Personally I don't place a high value on a parking place being close to the store. I like to take any opportunity to walk since I spend too much time at work behind a desk.

I think it's fair to say that you are an extraordinary person (especially if you are an American). Bill. If you take a look at what waddling in and out of the doors of Wal-Mart, you will find people who have taken any opportunity to sit on a sofa with a giant bag of chips and a Super-Mega-Gulp of high-fructose corn syrup.

There's a kind of fat going around now that's "not natural" as my grandfather used to say. You don't get that fat just from packing away an extra pork chop or helping of mashed potatoes with dinner. This is genetically-modified fat, science-experiment-gone-wrong fat, industrial-accident fat, out-of-control-tumorous fat. I went to the humongous hardware store a couple of Saturdays ago, and my daughter wanted to stop at Wal-Mart to buy some girl thing. I thought I had crossed some threshold in the metaverse or something. Everybody looked like they were wearing the fat suit that the comedian wears in the movie ("Fat Bastard weighs a metric ton..."). Then I got it in my head that these gargantuan people were looking at my daughter and me like we were some interlopers into their fat world and we didn't belong there and like Children of the Corn Syrup they were going trap me and my daughter in the sporting goods section and sacrifice us to their god of fat. I swear I hurried outside and stood with the few people who were not hugely fat, the smokers, just so I could feel normal again.

My daughter wanted to stop for lunch, but I couldn't possibly eat. This is a true story. There's something serious going on around here. Some 1950's sci-fi horror story of fat. It scares me.

Yes, I'd rather walk from the back of the parking lot, too. Plus, my hooptie is less likely to get scratched that way.

Re:Electric Charging Stations (2)

dmbasso (1052166) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791005)

And when you talk about law you have to remember whose interests are involved: Who Killed the Electric Car? [imdb.com] .

Everybody should watch this documentary, and be revolted with those in command.

Re:Electric Charging Stations (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38791051)

I can't wait for the sequel when Tesla declares bankruptcy and goes out of business. They will claim that the illuminati in league with the oil companies using the Free Masons infiltrate and sabotage Tesla.

Re:Electric Charging Stations (1)

jeffmeden (135043) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791167)

I can't wait for the sequel when Tesla declares bankruptcy and goes out of business. They will claim that the illuminati in league with the oil companies using the Free Masons infiltrate and sabotage Tesla.

Why go to that trouble? They will just blame it on the bad driving habits of Jeremy Clarkson...

Re:Electric Charging Stations (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38791833)

Who do you think is the head of the illuminati? There is a very good reason the Stig never shows his face.

Re:Electric Charging Stations (0)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791137)

I'm a proponent of EVs (and electric hybrids), but that documentary is so full of inaccuracies. I wish people would stop citing it.

EVs died-off for the same reason passenger rail died-off in the early 1900s, why there's no longer such a thing as Atari Computer, why Sega no longer makes consoles, why Circuit City went bankrupt, why CED videorecords failed as a format, and so on.

Lack of customer interest. They chose other products they liked better.

Re:Electric Charging Stations (1)

dmbasso (1052166) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791519)

I'm a proponent of EVs (and electric hybrids), but that documentary is so full of inaccuracies. I wish people would stop citing it.

Would you care to elaborate? Or give us some pointers to reliable sources? Perhaps I'm being naive, but the arguments the documentary presents are pretty convincing.

EVs died-off for the same reason passenger rail died-off in the early 1900s [...]

You meant in the US and other Big Oil dominated countries, right? Here in Europe passenger rail continues to go strong (to the best of my knowledge, myself being a customer in Germany, Italy and Portugal). Sadly for my mother nation Brazil, we don't have a good rail infrastructure not even for agricultural transportation (which comprises most of our GDP, I guess). For that we rely on big diesel trucks... I bet you can guess how things turned out to be that way right?

Re:Electric Charging Stations (1)

Blakey Rat (99501) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791563)

Yes and watch my new documentary: "Everything Is A Conspiracy Even Things That Failed On Their Own Merits!"

Find out who THEY are and why THEY don't want you driving electric cars!

Re:Electric Charging Stations (1)

DallasMay (1330587) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791029)

We don't need new laws right now. This problem will fix itself as more and more people start buying EVs and retail, offices, and restaurants are forced by the market to add more chargers or enforce the EV parking only themselves. When a large enough percentage of a company's customers stop going to a restaurant because they can't plug-in, then the smart businesses are going to help their customers and the ones that don't will be out of business.

Re:Electric Charging Stations (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38791153)

In California, the penalty is about $350 to park in a Disabled slot if you don't have tags. Same rule should apply to electric charging slots.

Re:Electric Charging Stations (1)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791293)

You don't need a law. You need a store willing to self-police its own private parking, the same way my local bank tows people who are not banking. If a gasser is sitting in an EV spot, then cracker barrel should have them removed.

- "$37,000"

Waaaay too high in price. Solectria made a car similar to this in the early 2000s, and it failed to sell because of that high price. They need to find a way to make the car less than an Lexus or Acura, otherwise people will just buy the luxury car.

For now I think the only affordable "electric" cars are the hybrids with their 40 mile pure-EV range.

Re:Electric Charging Stations (1)

Roblimo (357) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791799)

"Gasser" is going to become the new "hooptie." I say this as someone who drives an 18-year-old, gas-powered Jeep Cherokee with peeling paint.

Re:Electric Charging Stations (1)

garcia (6573) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791609)

There are hybrid parking spaces at the local transit station I use daily. I don't agree with limiting parking spaces in a publicly funded parking lot for those who can afford a new car and especially one that is a hybrid.

If I had more than one car and actually drove to the transit station myself to park (instead of being dropped off, walking or biking as I do) I would park there with my "gas guzzling" Mazda3 (yes, it is a gas guzzler even though it's very compact).

Perhaps instead of having "no manners whatsoever" they simply don't agree with such ridiculousness?

*Not* made in the USA (5, Informative)

tgd (2822) | more than 2 years ago | (#38790805)

Final assemby is in the USA. Most of the chassis is made in China, and the rest of the parts are sourced from various places around the world.

Unlike, say, a Hyundai which is almost entirely made in the US.

Final Assembly in USA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38790833)

I asked where they are "made" and the gentleman at the booth said "final assembly in California". I'm not sure what the domestic content is. Anyone know?

Re:Final Assembly in USA (3, Informative)

slack_justyb (862874) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791111)

Smyrna, TN [engadget.com]
That's the town right next to where I live. They've had billboards up in the area talking about how the Leaf is coming to Smyrna and how awesome it's going to be to live in the same area as they are made in. However, as someone pointed out. Pretty much the only thing they will do there is put the pieces together. All the parts will be sourced from elsewhere.

Total impact? Well they aren't opening a new wing (you can tell when they are doing that because Nissan Blvd and Enon Springs road becomes a nightmare with all the heavy construction. Traffic usually backs up onto US 41/70S (aka Murfreesboro Road). So no one new is getting hired at the plant. Instead I think they are phasing out some sort of truck they use to make. So no new construction, no new hire, pretty much the Nissan Leaf has brought zero new jobs... Oh I take that back! CSX hired sixty some odd workers for about nine months to expand the capacity of the rail yard at the Nissan plant.

However, aside from the job issue. The local malls (Stones River, The Avenue, etc...) have added EV charge stations to welcome our new Leaf overlords. So I'm guessing that's good that we are suddenly going from zero EV charging stations to now twenty-six, three packs, and counting.

However I will say that Nissan is doing something with their site in the back. You can see that they are leveling the ground from Florence Rd but there has yet to be any structures added. So more likely we'll be seeing little white canopies going up soon or we'll see the start of, hopefully, a new building.

Re:Final Assembly in USA (2, Interesting)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791849)

Other than the motor, which is from UQM in Colorado, EVERYTHING from it is Chinese. The Chinese are watching to see if CODA can sell. If so, they are going to simply rip it off, produce it by multiple companies there, and then dump here to destroy CODA.

Coda video (1)

susanai (1085983) | more than 2 years ago | (#38790847)

Why is "content unavailable" posted over video?

Re:Coda video (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38790971)

Why is "content unavailable" posted over video?

DMCA takedown notice from Nissan.

But why? (1)

Theophany (2519296) | more than 2 years ago | (#38790889)

$37k for a car that can travel *up to* 150 miles on a full charge? My diesel fiat cost less than half that, can go *up to* 400 miles on a tank of the dirty stuff and when I put my foot down it goes like a scalded cat (gotta love turbos). Still not seeing the market viability for full electric cars amongst the real road warriors (30k+ miles p.a.) who, let's face it, are the group of drivers that pollute most.

I'll be ready to listen to a coherent argument for electric cars when they cease to be the vanity articles of the rich doing >1,000 miles p.a.

Re:But why? (4, Insightful)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791447)

$37k for a car that can travel *up to* 150 miles on a full charge? My diesel fiat cost less than half that, can go *up to* 400 miles on a tank of the dirty stuff and when I put my foot down it goes like a scalded cat (gotta love turbos).

150 miles means that most commuters never need to charge it anywhere except at home. They just park it in the charging spot each night and it's ready to go in the morning. No more visits to petrol stations to fill up the car, except when you're making a long trip.

Still not seeing the market viability for full electric cars amongst the real road warriors (30k+ miles p.a.) who, let's face it, are the group of drivers that pollute most.

Per capita? Sure. In total? I doubt it. The people doing their daily 30 mile commute each way outnumber the road warriors by a huge amount. Get them all into electric cars, and you can easily switch the energy source to nuclear, solar, or whatever.

Re:But why? (1)

Theophany (2519296) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791965)

Per capita? Sure. In total? I doubt it. The people doing their daily 30 mile commute each way outnumber the road warriors by a huge amount. Get them all into electric cars, and you can easily switch the energy source to nuclear, solar, or whatever.

But just how many sources of electricity for these cars is renewable/clean/carbon neutral/whatever? Because if you're still burning coal to generate the electricity required to get the car moving then the whole exercise is both expensive and pointless. Maybe speaking as a Brit my vision is skewed; it's not sunny enough to generate any meaningful amounts of solar power, the old guard still think nuclear power will result in Chernobyl II, we can't build wind turbines because there's not enough space available and tidal power arrays are deemed to interfere with precious nature.

Almost Perfect (1)

DallasMay (1330587) | more than 2 years ago | (#38790945)

Besides the high "early adopter" price, this car is missing one serious feature that makes EVs truly preactical cars -Level III fast charging. The Leaf and the i both have it standard, and it really should be standard on an EV. I would say that even if it raised the price of the vehicle an extra $3000, it should be standard. Add a fast charger and this guy is the perfect EV.

Re:Almost Perfect (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38791059)

I saw it at the NAIAS, and they just need to work on making the exterior more like the EV1 instead of a Honda Accord from 1990. They could use fiberglass panels or carbon fiber to make it lighter weight.

The technology is there, and the interior works, but the exterior just needs to be a little more sports car to get better range. They do have some steep competition at that price from the Volt, Leaf, and plug-in Prius.

Business Case Analysis (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38790951)

Let's compare. At 15 MPG for my 30 mile commute, that $14/day in gas. At 48 work weeks a year, that's $1680 a year in gasoline for my beat up, unstoppable pickup. Back of the envelope math says about $650/mo in payments for the $37K car at 2%. 20 years to pay off if electricity is free? Yes, I'm using 30 years of data that shows that the price of gasoline is pretty constant, but also ignoring the whole PG&E assraping. There's a reason that the average age of a vehicle on the road is growing. That beat up old pickup, at $75/fillup is making me rich.

Re:Business Case Analysis (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38791169)

Don't forget that the electric car can't do much other than be a metro runabout.

Your truck will go places (not even gnarly off-road terrain, think plain old rutted roads) that will have the small, high MPG vehicle's axles for lunch and the oil pan for dessert.

I fear that you have too much sense. There is a push to force people to buy high MPG cars... but I'd rather keep a paid off pickup and pay the higher gas cost than have to deal with a $600+ car payment. MPG-wise, but pound foolish. Plus, it takes a lot of energy to make a car, far more than the difference in MPG between a truck and a new subcompact.

Re:Business Case Analysis (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38791511)

Don't forget PG&E has this great deal with Solaren to get electricity beamed down from orbiting solar panel arrays. How's that coming along? Oh yeah.... It's a scam.

NOT MADE IN THE USA (5, Informative)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 2 years ago | (#38790965)

The car is made in China. All that CODA does is install a UQM motor (American made with Chinese parts), Chinese made electronics and a chinese made battery.
This car is 99% Chinese.

Re:NOT MADE IN THE USA (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791507)

So you mean, it's just like Apple was with the Macintosh? II series anyway... Boards made by Foxconn, plastics made in China, shipped here and assembled in Sacramento by minimum wage fanboys who were nonetheless happy to claim they "worked for apple"

Re:NOT MADE IN THE USA (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791569)

Just like every GM car made.

You want american made? Buy Toyota or Honda.

Re:NOT MADE IN THE USA (3, Informative)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791823)

Actually, few of Toyota or Honda are even close to 100% made here. That is why when Japan was hit by the tsunami, All Japanese plants outside of Japan came to a crawl. Probably the most American made is Tesla Model S. Other than the lithium and some of the electronics, allmost all of it is from America. And the Lithium is about to be from USA as well within 2 years.

Standard arguments (5, Insightful)

vlm (69642) | more than 2 years ago | (#38790979)

Well lets get the standard arguments out of the way so newer, more interesting discussions can happen

1) It ONLY GOES 150 MILES? I always drive 151 miles per trip, even if its only to the corner store I drive around the block 604 times because I love to drive! Why my commute is over 5 hours per day, each way, because I'm a True American (TM) and you "30 minute commute" people are wimps, democrats, terrorists, or whatever..

2) If it can't charge in 5 minutes its dead to me. I only sleep in 3 hour shifts before moving to a new location because the T9000 is after me, so it would never get a chance to charge and I only travel to and from places that have no AC power service because otherwise my tinfoil hat sparks excessively.

3) One model vehicle cannot meet the needs of all buyers, therefore all electric vehicles are useless, because one model of gasoline car meets all human needs. What you say, there are more than one model of gas vehicle? Oh.

4) It doesn't work too well below -40 degrees C/F so I can't buy it. Sure, I live in southern Florida, but I'm worried about resale value. Oh you say my gas vehicle doesn't work too well at -40 either? So what, everyone knows that, I just felt the need to point this out about electrical cars, because I'm sure none of you lowly serfs would think of that yourselves.

5) My gas car's SLI battery was carefully engineered to fail in 3 years to maximize corporate profits, and surprise, surprise, it fails every 3 years. I'm sure an electric car will fail in 3 years too, and I don't care if the average Prius battery was engineered to last the life of the car, and in fact it does last the life of the car, you can't force me to think so I won't. Nahh naahhh nahhhhhh! I don't believe in engineering and you shouldn't either.

6) I will not be satisfied until an automated robot tentacle snakes out of the wall and plugs itself into the charger socket, mostly because I want to watch youtube videos of what the tentacle inserts in women wearing miniskirts. I don't care if everyone north of the mason dixon line already has a block heater and battery heater and battery trickle charger and they perfectly successfully use it every time it gets below zero, because I'm certain no one will ever be able to plug a car in when they park, after all, I don't, so no one in the whole universe every has, can, or will.

7) What is the charger connector going to be, there is no standard. I don't care if there actually is a perfectly good deployed standard which I could find on wikipedia if I wanted, I just like to post this every singe time there is an electric car article. Also, did you know there is no standard low voltage DC connector? Oh wait, there is. Oh how I love to post this over and over.

8) Thousands of american military personnel have died for oil, and its disrespectful of their memory not to burn as much gasoline as humanly possible, after all you don't want their relatives to think they died for nothing. My Chinese imported yellow support the troops ribbon sticker on the trunk of my 8 MPG SUV absolves me of all guilt, much like purchasing a pre-reformation indulgence.

I think that'll do it, does anyone have anything NEW to offer to the standard lineup of /. electric car stories?

Re:Standard arguments (2)

cc1984_ (1096355) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791123)

Personally, wrt your 1st point, some kind of long haul system would make this point mute. I make infrequent, but regular trips of > 400 miles. If I could pop my car on a train, everything would be gravy. I can't see it being too hard to get the infrastructure in place.

Failing that, I see many lorries carrying new cars to showrooms. If someone with enough clout and ingenuity could realize that with the growing number of electric cars, some kind of courier service for cars would make a lot of money, I'd be very happy to sign up.

Of course someone will come up with "it's too expensive", but where I live (London), money is the last reason I'd tout for being a car owner vs taking public transport.

Re:Standard arguments (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38791363)

To be honest, I wish the point HAD been made "mute", then we wouldn't have to listen to all the whining.

For crying out loud, it's MOOT [wiktionary.org]

Re:Standard arguments (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38791481)

Many of the enthusiast modders that have converted a gasoline car to an all electric also make a gasoline generator trailer for long hauls. Just hitch it up to the rear of the vehicle and plug it in to the car's charging circuit and you can go a lot further than 400mi on a tank of gas. The ones I've seen are generally the back ends of a regular car (rear axel, gas tank, trunk) chopped off and finished to make it more aerodynamic. I'm surprised nobody has tried to market something like this.

Re:Standard arguments (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38791579)

Motorail trains used to exist - you could ship your car from London to Sctoland on one but there was so little take up they stopped about 15 years ago - still exist on the continent.

Many companies exist to ship luxury cars around where the owners don't want to rack up the milage which reduces resale value

Re:Standard arguments (1)

vlm (69642) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791871)

I make infrequent, but regular trips of > 400 miles.

Rental. Been there, done that. Frankly, if I'm moving something big and heavy I'd prefer to mess up the heavily insured rental rather than my daily driver anyway. Besides its fun to drive something new once in a while. I've rented and driven a giant F-350 duallie, the GMC equivalent diesel truck, and several different "moving vans".

If you're just moving yourself, you're better off taking public transport like a plane, and renting a car at the site. Or, if available, rent a completely impractical but fun car, like a convertible (impracticality depends on your local climate)

The coolest thing about rentals is for practically no money they provide all the insurance and AAA service you can imagine. I'd much rather have a rental break down half way thru a 400 mile trip than my daily driver.

Re:Standard arguments (2)

Theophany (2519296) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791149)

You can make any argument seem ridiculous when you push it to idiotic extremes. Some of these criticisms, when reined in to more sensible levels, are valid and until they are addressed by EV manufacturers they will continue to diminish the relevance of them to the mass market.

So yeah, same old arguments, the question is why are they not being addressed?

Re:Standard arguments (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791253)

"Oh you say my gas vehicle doesn't work too well at -40 either?"

I regularly drive my gas vehicle at -40. Works fine so long as we plug it in at work to keep the engine warm enough to start easily.

"I'm sure an electric car will fail in 3 years too"

Last I read Honda Civic Hybrid owners were suing Honda, supposedly because the batteries were failing so fast that Honda reprogrammed the computer not to use them much so they'd survive the warranty period... wihch made them pointless.

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/08/16/hondas-fix-for-prematurely-dying-civic-hybrid-batteries-hurting/ [autoblog.com]

Re:Standard arguments (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38791841)

"Oh you say my gas vehicle doesn't work too well at -40 either?"

I regularly drive my gas vehicle at -40. Works fine so long as we plug it in at work to keep the engine warm enough to start easily.

Whooooooooooooosh.... That's EXACTLY his point. If you don't plug it in, you don't have a working vehicle either. They make battery warmers too. Surprise, you need only plug it. Which means, whiles it charging, its also staying warm. And when you drive it, the battery warmers stay running. Its the same situation. He was pointing out how hypocritical it is for people to say these things about batteries but pretend its not a problem for engines. It absolutely is the EXACT SAME PROBLEM whic is addressed the EXACT SAME WAY. The only difference is, you're filling up the electric car when you plug in to keep it warm, whereas, the gas car still needs to be taken to the corner gas station and you need to get out into the weather to pump that gas while its -40.

So in case its not clear, -1 engine, +1 electric.

Re:Standard arguments (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791903)

"Whooooooooooooosh.... That's EXACTLY his point."

No, it's not. Gasoline engines work fine at -40, they just don't like starting; EVs suck ass at those temperatures at all times because batteries really don't like sub-zero temperatures. If you don't heat the battery you'll probably lose at least half the range and you'll then need to suck more power from it to heat the car.

"If you don't plug it in, you don't have a working vehicle either."

I've started it without plugging it in, but there's just no reason to put that much extra stress on the engine for the sake of a few cents of electricity. In addition, if the car's only been parked for half an hour it will start fine with no additional heating.

Re:Standard arguments (2)

ledow (319597) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791289)

How about:

I've never paid more than £1000 ($1500) for a car in my life, and they all give me at least 30,000 miles before dying and often that's after 100,000 miles of usage by other people? My maintenance costs are never more than about £500 ($750) over the year for any one particular car because if it costs that, it's cheaper to buy another car in the long run.

I have no more reliability or service issues than any other car driver (in fact, probably a lot less) and I don't really care if the car never starts again because I can replace it next month without having to budget specifically.

When I see second-hand electric cars that do the same, then we can talk. Your number 5 is going to make that nigh-on impossible for current models, whether you want to argue it or not.

Batteries of any kind do not last forever. Of those that last longest, lead-acid has proven the best value choice (and hence why the previous generation of all-electric cars in Britain - otherwise known as milk-floats - have been using them since the 60's) and that's the only battery in my current car and costs about £50 to replace when it dies. Your battery will never make it to any reasonable second-hand market, which means no-one will buy it, replacing it will be uneconomical (and the car will end up being recycled quicker) and you won't be able to recoup its cost. It also means that the second-hand market for electrics is dead before it starts until someone comes up with someone marvellous and hence lots of people (who have NEVER owned a new car) will never be able to use one.

Why buy something that's new and untested when you can wait a few years and get the same benefits at a cheaper purchase price? Give me a nudge when I can buy an electric car with 100,000 miles on the clock, a full service history, no major historical problems and no current mechanical problems. For a petrol car with the same criteria, they publish magazines full of nothing but the damn things being advertised.

Re:Standard arguments (2, Insightful)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791919)

Mostly agree, but the market for used hybrids (at least in the US) remains strong, and I don't expect plug-ins to be different in the short to mid term.

The Smug Poor want to flaunt their eco-credentials nearly as much as the Smug Rich, and it'll take a while before everyone knows someone whose cousin bought one of those damn electronical cars which then crapped its $7K battery all over the floor the next month.

Of course, in civilised nations, if we want "eco", we buy a small turbodiesel returning 88 of Her Brittanic Majesty's Miles per Greenwich Gallon on either DERV or chip fat (or 73mpg in Colonial jibber-speak), and that isn't packed full of rare earths that have been strip mined by Chinese orphans, or powered by a coal fired power plant in the next valley.

Eco isn't just about tailpipe emissions, but it'll be a long, hard slog to convince the 'mentals of that.

Re:Standard arguments (1)

tgd (2822) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791311)

That's a good list. Did you furiously jackhammer that out on your keyboard when you saw there was an EV post on /. or did you have it ready to go and just cut in paste?

(And, to be clear, the first sentance is serious, the second is mildly sarcastic.)

Re:Standard arguments (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38791759)

To be clear, what's a "sentance"? Is that like an "artical"?

Re:Standard arguments (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791445)

1. No electrical infrastructure to support these.

2. All of the things you mentioned are true to a degree, that's what makes the market for these things so tiny right now.

3. We need more nuclear power, small nuclear power right on board of these cars.

Re:Standard arguments (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791553)

1 - there is electric infrastructure for these. even my podunk town has several electric car charging points. Problem is some moron in a Pickup truck or SUV is always parked in front of it. The city is doing a tow and impound on them starting this year, no tickets the police tow trucks just hook up and take your vehicle, so maybe that problem will fix it's self.

2 - The real problem is true range and price. They claim 150 miles, I am betting real world is 1/2 that. Also the real price is over $40,000 which makes it a toy for only the very rich.

3 - you are 100% correct here.

Re:Standard arguments (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791637)

"even my podunk town has several electric car charging points. Problem is some moron in a Pickup truck or SUV is always parked in front of it."

Why should pickup drivers be forced to pay an EV driver's fuel bill?

Re:Standard arguments (2)

Tim4444 (1122173) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791535)

You missed a few:

<sarcasm>

The electric grid can't handle any more load and there's too much government regulation preventing us from upgrading it.

Using electricity in this country means burning coal and obviously it's much harder to mine coal and haul it by train across the country than it would be to extract oil from unstable countries, move it around the globe in a boat, refine it, then truck it to filling stations, and then for me to personally go get it every week or three. Oil is just so much simpler.

I have a gas guzzler now. Nobody's going to tell me that I don't already have the best thing on or off* the road.

I need a vehicle I can use for my weekend trips to the mountains / lakes. We only have my truck, my wife's car, my daughter's sports car, my son's car, the RV and the jeep. If I get an electric car I just won't have anything for the weekend trips.

* off road refers to that time I drove through my neighbor's lawn to run over his campaign posters

</sarcasm>

Re:Standard arguments (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38791715)

I can't afford to spend $37,000 on any car, electric or gas. That's quite a premium to pay, for less of a car.

Re:Standard arguments (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38791747)

A Mustang/M3/Corvette sounds/looks WAY sexier than any electric car?

Oh, and electricity really isn't very "green" in my area since almost all of it is produced by coal (what do you expect in Pennsylvania). I guess I could cut down a bunch of trees for a solar panel or ten but that seems counter productive if you're concerned about the environment. Not getting a mini-windmill either - I like birds and bats.

Also, my commute is about 180 miles a day. I'd like to work closer to home and I'm trying but no bites yet in the job market.

Re:Standard arguments (2)

DigiTechGuy (1747636) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791933)

WRT point #5, what is the life of a Prius? My daily driver is nearly 30 years old, and I plan on driving it until I die or until I find one from '76-'77 that I like. My summer saily driver is nearly 50 years old and I'll be driving that until I die. I don't envision people driving a Prius in 50 years as I suspect the useful life is far less than that. It's a point A to point B until it dies cookie cutter car. Most new cars are not made to be serviceable. Look at how undersized critical componenets like tie rods and ball joints are, and they have no zerks... They're "sealed for life" and as such fail early at which point you need to replace parts since they're not rebuildable. Chintsy rotors and drums that warp easiy and don't have any meat to cut them, "sealed for life" steering boxes and racks, etc. These are overpriced disposable cars made to last 5-10 years and after that they get very expensive to maintain since you can't just rebuild whatever is worn out.

I think Tesla maybe has better business model (4, Insightful)

JSBiff (87824) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791055)

It seems to me the problem with trying to create a new technology sedan for the "everyman" is that, in order to get "everyman" pricing, you need the kinds of economies of scale you just can't get when you make 10,000 or 12,000 cars.

I think that GM made a huge mistake with the Volt. I love the idea of a volt - a plugin hybrid that uses electricity till it can't, then uses gas when necessary.

The problem is, it seems they made a car with no glamour or mystique to it. If you're going to only make 10,000 vehicles and they are going to be more expensive than most people can afford, then just go ahead and make it a luxury car. The volt should have been a Cadillac, not a Chevy. It should have had lots of interior luxury and beautiful exterior that was to die for. Maybe it should have cost $50,000+.

GM should have done everything it could to make it the year's "It Car", getting tv, movie, music and athletic celebrities, the children of the rich, and hipster-CEO's to buy it as a green conspicuous consumption item. Then, use those profits to ramp up the economies of scale. Meanwhile, the "average joe" sees all the "cool rich people" driving them, and maybe has increased desire for one of them.

That seems to be the model that Tesla is pursuing. I think GM could have had more clout to get the Volt to be an "It Car" if they had pursued that strategy, but since they didn't, I wish Tesla luck.

Re:I think Tesla maybe has better business model (1)

flyingfsck (986395) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791755)

GM only made the Volt, because the president of the USA ordered them to make it. One of the reasons president Obama fired Wagoner and replaced him with an aparatchik was because he refused.

Get rid of that last zero and it's a winner (2)

tp1024 (2409684) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791069)

$3700 is the kind of price when people would be much less bothered whether a car can go for 600km or 60km. Qualitatively less performance on almost all counts for over twice the price of an ordinary car just doesn't make sense beyond the idealistic fringe with very deep pockets, trying to polish their better-than-thou attitude to the rest of the world.

However, qualitatively less performance for a much smaller price of entry is justifable. Netbooks did this. Of course their performance rather laughable compared to a proper laptop - but you couldn't get laptop for $200. It satisfies the need of a basic mobile universal computer for a price below all other offers. The same would work for cars for a lot of commuters - it need not be all or even most. There are 300 million americans, even if it only appeals to 3 in 100 people, that's 10 mio customers.

Re:Get rid of that last zero and it's a winner (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38791249)

5-seat version:
Lower the Cd to something better than a Corolla (0.19 or lower - no way this has that).
Allow 240VAC 100A charging at home (24kW).
Reduce the price below $25000.

2 seat version:
Chop it in half, lengthwise, like the this Volkswagon [greatchange.org] .
Reduce the battery capacity by 70%.
Reduce the weight by 70%.
Reduce the price to $15000.

1-seat microcar:
Do the same as the 2-seat, but find a way to lower the price below $10,000.
Extreme measures [diseno-art.com] would be required.

Nobody wants a $30,000 base-model Kia, especially when you can get a really nice Prius with leather in the same ballpark.

Re:Get rid of that last zero and it's a winner (1)

jeffmeden (135043) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791373)

$3700 is the kind of price when people would be much less bothered whether a car can go for 600km or 60km. Qualitatively less performance on almost all counts for over twice the price of an ordinary car just doesn't make sense beyond the idealistic fringe with very deep pockets, trying to polish their better-than-thou attitude to the rest of the world.

However, qualitatively less performance for a much smaller price of entry is justifable. Netbooks did this. Of course their performance rather laughable compared to a proper laptop - but you couldn't get laptop for $200. It satisfies the need of a basic mobile universal computer for a price below all other offers. The same would work for cars for a lot of commuters - it need not be all or even most. There are 300 million americans, even if it only appeals to 3 in 100 people, that's 10 mio customers.

Generally you are right, but... Those in the US "trying to polish their better-than-thou attitude to the rest of the world" make up a staggeringly large percentage... Oh, and netbooks are dead.

And lastly (on a more serious note) not everyone in the US has a car (far fewer can actually drive one,) and the typical run rate for cars is 6 million a year. Capture 3% of that market and you are moving 180k units a year. Sounds easy? Volkswagen (no slouch when it comes to marketing and diversity) does 300k in a good year (and thats including their Audi brand.) A niche, in the auto industry, is somewhere on the order of half a percent of market share.

This is Slashdot (1)

Dareth (47614) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791073)

"it has a fully-usable back seat"

This is Slashdot. They probably think the back seat is for passengers!

Federal subsidies, grants, and loans (1)

kenh (9056) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791095)

I'd be very interested to know how much money this company took/was given by the federal government to get started.

A range of 150 miles is suitable for someone that spends less than 3 hours a day driving, which includes many, many people - but how many of those people can afford a $37,000 (list price est.) sedan? With all the federal and state "gifts" (subsidies, loans, and grants) available to deploy charging stations at owner homes, apartments and stores/offices I don't think the "where are you gonna plug it in" question will be an issue for very long - once the car starts selling, the charging stations will come.

In Summary: (1)

Kagetsuki (1620613) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791129)

They have a terrible looking electric car that can theoretically drive about 10 miles further per charge than its closest competitor (the Leaf), but is more expensive and unlike the Leaf which is primarily produced in Japan/USA it's produced in China/USA. Oh, and they introduce the car with showtunes.

I get the feeling this CODA company isn't going to be around so much longer.

Re:In Summary: (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791487)

The leaf has less than a 70 mile range. this has been proven everywhere. These guys are claiming 150 mile range.

Powered by... Coal? (4, Insightful)

bobs666 (146801) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791139)

As long as we understand electric cars are powered by Coal! Until we figure out that that wind, water, corn, grass, and geothermal power will never meet the demand for powering our cars. That Nuclear power is the only practical green solution. Electric cars will not reduce pollution no there own. None the less electric cars do allow for alternative power solutions. And we will run out of petrol sooner or later.

Re:Powered by... Coal? (3, Informative)

janimal (172428) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791583)

Coal transport from mine to plant requires less carbon than oil from Saudi Arabia to the pump, plus refinement. Also, I'm not sure what the combustion energy effectiveness of a highly specialized generator turbines is, but I suspect it's a bit better than a pocket piston combustion engine that you'll find under your hood. Please consider city driving conditions for the combustion engine efficiency, because that's the niche for the new electric vehicles.

Re:Powered by... Coal? (2)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791781)

In the USA, 44% of our power is from Coal, and that is dropping fast. Less than 25% of our power comes from NG, with 20% from Nukes, 1% oil and the rest is AE.

As such, electric cars are MUCH cleaner than oil to run. In addition, they use LOCAL fuel, as opposed to supporting terrorists.

Re:Powered by... Coal? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38791887)

I'll take a few hundred well-maintained coal plants that can be inspected regularly for pollution over tens to hundreds of thousand or millions of cars. Most places don't even have car inspection areas.

But for what it's worth, my power is nuclear/hydro in composition, with a side of solar/wind. I live within visual sight distance of both, even though I'm sure there's coal generated power on the grid, I doubt it gets to me unless there's some major shutdowns that cover hundreds of miles of distance.

meh (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38791151)

It looks gay.

Fails fiscal sense (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38791303)

CODA cost: $37k
Superbly equipped VW Golf TDI with all the bells and whistles (navigation, sunroof, DSG gearbox, etc): $30k.

Going to CODA's site and using their electricity numbers and fixing the price of diesel at $4.00, the mileage of the Golf at 38 (4 lower than EPA highway), and calling it 10k/year* in miles traveled, they say I will save $922 a year.

* = Most of my driving is country roads at 55mph. Actual fuel economy on my 2005 Golf TDI is 39MPG. I drive 60 miles (round trip) to work every day.

So, it will take 7 years for the car to break even vs. a diesel, and I'll STILL need a second car to visit my family, who live about 200 miles away, because I can't get there on one charge.

Re:Fails fiscal sense (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38791711)

Why is your fuel economy so bad ?

I have a 2005 Skoda Octavia 1.9TDi which is likely the same engine. Yesterday i drove reading to far side of Newbury on Motorway and the A4 at a "spirited " speed 90mph motorway then 65 on A-Road other than urban bits. returned 62.1 mpg (uk gallons) over the 60 mile return trip. That was me, a teenager and a boot full of kit.

Where did he het the $37,000 price? (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791477)

Their website shows it's $40,798 for a BASE MODEL.
Come on, if you guys at Slashdot are trying to act like journalists, at least get some of your facts right.

This car is a failure out of the gate. It's smaller than a honda civic and costs as much as a BMW 325i.

Cut the price in 1/2 and there is where it has a chance of selling.

Uuuuuuglyyyy (2)

janimal (172428) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791497)

Premium price for truly crappy looks? How is that supposed to work? How would that look next to the stylin "long trip" vehicle in the driveway?
The Prius is ugly enough as it is, but what's with the race to produce the worlds first paper bagger car?

Re:Uuuuuuglyyyy (1)

tenaciousj (769989) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791761)

That's what I've never understood. Is there a pre-requisite that in order for something to be electric it has to be ugly as shit?

Supply and Demand (1)

GoJays (1793832) | more than 2 years ago | (#38791753)

Electric cars sound great now, but what happens when 60% of the cars out there are electric? We will see electricity prices skyrocket just like gasoline prices. And now not only will driving cost more, it will cost more to power everything else you use as well. In the long run, is it really cheaper to drive electric than gasoline? Also the only way it is cleaner, is if the electricty being generated is from sources like solar, wind or hydroelectric... but at this time that is highly doubtful especially if/when electric cars make up the majority of vehicles on the road.

Nissan LEAF *is* made in the USA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38791785)

The Nissan LEAF is produced in Smyrna, Tennessee (just outside of Nashville). It may not be "good" or "old", but I'm pretty sure it's still part of the USA.

Chassis Manufacturer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38791921)

According to the nice young woman manning the CODA booth at the auto show in Detroit, the chassis a tweaked design from a Mitsubishi model not previously sold in the United States. The modifications performed were for the purposes of accommodating the battery packs.

That is all.

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