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The Behind-the-Scenes Campaign To Bring SOPA To Canada

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the sneak-it-in-during-hockey-season dept.

Canada 171

An anonymous reader writes "SOPA may be dead (for now) in the U.S., but lobby groups are likely to intensify their efforts to export SOPA-like rules to other countries. With the Canadian DMCA back on the legislative agenda at the end of the month, Canada will be a prime target for SOPA style rules. In fact, Michael Geist reports that the recording industry wants language to similar to that found in SOPA on blocking access to websites, new termination policies for subscribers, and an expanded SOPA-style liability for sites that could include YouTube and cloud-based services." Another reader points out that similar mischief is afoot in Ireland: "The Irish government's new 'statutory instrument' threatens to do some of the same things as SOPA, mainly introducing the power to force ISPs to block websites suspected of having copyrighted material on them."

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How much is a political bribe in Canadian dollars? (4, Funny)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 2 years ago | (#38796939)

I can probably get more bang for my buck by buying one of their politicians instead of buying one in the U.S. anyway.

Re:How much is a political bribe in Canadian dolla (1)

kodiaktau (2351664) | more than 2 years ago | (#38796993)

Politicians on the cheap 1 USD = 1.015 CAD

Re:How much is a political bribe in Canadian dolla (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797053)

Direct lobbying like that is illegal in Canada.

Re:How much is a political bribe in Canadian dolla (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797387)

Yes, bribery is "illegal" in the U.S. too--wink, wink.

Re:How much is a political bribe in Canadian dolla (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797433)

In the US, you can campaign directly to an individual. In Canada, you can not.

Re:How much is a political bribe in Canadian dolla (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797445)

Very true, that's why they resort to:

  - Secret high-paying, low effort jobs available after they're done working at the government.
and
  - Repeated "Discussion" times at expensive all-inclusive golf resorts, family and friends invited, of course.

Re:How much is a political bribe in Canadian dolla (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797061)

Our (Canada's) politicians are less interested in bribes from outsiders than they are in enriching themselves and their friends. The present government are basically a bunch of stereotypical dumb jocks that treat our country like their own private frat house. Their boss, Stephen Harper, lets them all caper around, knowing that they are all to stupid to ever threaten his leadership, and only asks that they support his primary goal of destroying the liberal party.

Re:How much is a political bribe in Canadian dolla (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797435)

While I agree with much of this, I don't think they had to put deliberate effort into destroying the Liberal party. The Liberals kind of imploded on themselves without the help of Stephen Harper and his gang.

Re:How much is a political bribe in Canadian dolla (1)

lurker1997 (2005954) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797593)

You're right of course, the Liberals largely destroyed themselves and the implosion really got started a long time ago. However, this didn't stop the Conservatives from doing everything they could to crush the Liberals into the ground. Infighting within the Liberal party, and taking for granted that their historical successes would continue into the future caused the party to implode. Harper wants to ensure that the now-crippled party will never re-emerge as anything more than a joke.

Re:How much is a political bribe in Canadian dolla (2)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797115)

If you look at the global rankings, http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2011/results/ [transparency.org] , Canada's politicians are rated higher than US ones, which means less corrupt, and therefore, more expensive.

In Uzbekistan they are really cheap, but what would you do with your bought politicians there?

Those Scandinavians will cost you a bundle . . .

Re:How much is a political bribe in Canadian dolla (3, Insightful)

NIK282000 (737852) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797213)

It doesn't matter how much more expensive it is to buy politicians here, the Canadian government will without fail just follow along with what ever the US tell it to do. Why else would it sell oil lumber and power to the US at a loss?

Re:How much is a political bribe in Canadian dolla (4, Insightful)

morgauxo (974071) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797807)

Have you seen what the US does to countries that don't?

Re:How much is a political bribe in Canadian dolla (5, Insightful)

NIK282000 (737852) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797855)

Move in for 10 years, mess up the place and then give up?

Re:How much is a political bribe in Canadian dolla (1)

Formalin (1945560) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797931)

Because we haven't had a PM that wasn't afraid to tell the US to sit and spin since Trudeau. shame. Every one since has been a train of US appeasers, of various levels.

22000 percent ROI not enough for you? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797415)

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/01/06/144737864/forget-stocks-or-bonds-invest-in-a-lobbyist

Lobbying in the US bring a return on investment of around 22 thousand percent. And you want a discount? Now you're just being greedy.

Illuminati (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38796961)

Those danged Illuminatis, tryin to control my world!

Abolish copyrights and patents. (5, Interesting)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 2 years ago | (#38796979)

Same [slashdot.org] answer [slashdot.org] applies [slashdot.org] every [slashdot.org] time [slashdot.org] abolish copyrights and patents. [slashdot.org]

Copyrights and patents prevent speech, prevent innovation, prevent progress.

The only real free market approach to protecting your ideas is a trade secret, that's all. Government must not be allowed to meddle with businesses and protect business models and practices.

When somebody uses his savings to start a woodshop, as an example, if they fail and business dies out and they are out of their investment, there won't be government standing there with a handout, and it shouldn't be - it's personal risk.

Same with copyrights and patents - these are government handouts at the expense of the larger free market economy and it makes no sense to protect one type of investment over any other type. Government shouldn't be subsidising any businesses at all ever (banks, insurance companies and Solyndra come to mind).

Abolish copyrights and patents and check out the link I posted in this comment, it leads to my other comment on the same topic, but it's not my comment that is of interest, it's the response to my comment, with /. readers being vehemently opposed to the idea.

Why are /. readers opposed to this? Because they think that their business model is more important than a woodshop founder's business model. So the woodshop or a restaurant founder can go eat shit if his business fails (and a woodshop and especially a restaurant is a very location based heavy business, if you are in the wrong location, your business will fail, while on the Internet, businesses have access to near global markets, so there is a huge advantage for the software/book/movie/audio, etc. types of businesses there).

It's hypocrisy, it's short-sightedness, it's hubris and it shows the true colours (as in character) of the crowd.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (4, Insightful)

Anrego (830717) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797043)

This attitude is just part of the problem.

Both sides are full of unrealistic extremists and it's getting us nowhere. The digital world is very different in regards the reality of property. For the same reason that traditional property rules don’t apply well (or at all), the kind of logic you are applying doesn’t either.

We need rational thinking where both sides meet half way, not two sides screaming their extremist views at each other... especially as one side has a lot more influence to wield that the other.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797233)

No. The pro-IP side has had their way for too many years now. I'm tired of being butt-fucked. It's their turn now.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (2)

Anrego (830717) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797259)

I agree with the sentiment, but lets face it, it’s probably us that’s going to be over the barrel yet again.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (0)

SirGarlon (845873) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797345)

This attitude is exactly why the two-party system in the U.S. is a total failure.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (2)

nzac (1822298) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797447)

This attitude is exactly why the two-party system in the U.S. is a total failure.

A two party system is failure because its only one step better than a one party system.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (3, Interesting)

Anrego (830717) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797903)

We have a three party system here in Canada (well, you could argue 4 prior to the previous election) and it's not much better.

Having multiple options is generally useless when they all kind of point in the same general direction.

The choice generally comes down to who you think is going to be the gentlest once they've got you over the barrel.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (2)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797251)

...not two sides screaming their extremist views at each other...

"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!"

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797329)

An American quote.

Remember here in Canada, we got our independence through a series of meetings in which control was gradually transitioned over.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (0)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797713)

An American quote.

Doesn't matter where it comes from. It applies universally

Remember here in Canada, we got our independence...

Tee Hee

...through a series of meetings in which control was gradually transitioned over.

To.. whom exactly?

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797833)

Actually it's practically the definition of a compromise.

We got all the bits of independence that really matter in the general scheme of things, while England got a kind of ceremonial role that enables them to maintain the ties that they want.

Yes, it's not the American "give us liberty or give us death" stuff, but it works.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (1)

Hooya (518216) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797271)

A reality check for congress critters and senate squatters:

http://blog.agrawals.org/2012/01/18/the-chart-every-member-of-congress-should-see/ [agrawals.org]

Meeting halfway my ass. If the media companies were so precious that we needed all kinds of laws to specially protect them, how about protecting the much bigger industry that they are about to destroy?

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (1)

dbet (1607261) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797509)

Reasonable compromise? That sure worked well for Obama vs the Republicans.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797579)

You what is unrealistic? Expecting other countries to give a shit about your copyrights and patents once they have all the manufacturing and you depend on them for everything.

You know what's extremist? Using government to give powers to businesses that they would not have otherwise and call that a good economic model that promotes competition and growth of economy.

There is no middle ground, the side that doesn't care about patents and copyrights will win.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797597)

Normally I'd agree with you, but current copyright law is already extreme. As in, extremely one-sided. You can't take a reasonable position vs. an extremist, because you'll be expected to compromise, and that compromise will still be extreme, just not as extreme as it could have been.

For instance:

MAFIAA: All websites that host, point to, or in any way facilitate or encourage copyright infringement should be shut down immediately with no due process and no method of appeal, and the website operators should be jailed for fifty years. All websites should be required to police their own content, and if we find a single piece of copyrighted material on the site, the whole site should be shut down. Anyone found guilty of downloading a song or movie without our permission should be fined millions of dollars.

Reasonable Guy: Websites should not be shut down without a conviction in criminal court or a finding of liability in civil court. Websites should not be required to remove anything from their site unless the copyright holder swears under penalty of perjury that the material infringes their copyright. Copyright infringement should be a civil issue, not a criminal issue. Copyright infringement is the digital equivalent of jaywalking and should result in fines maxing out in the hundreds of dollars in extreme cases.

MAFIAA: Okay, because we're so generous, we'll compromise. We'll provide a list of titles that websites can match against to see if they're infringing. If any file on the website matches one of these titles in whole or in part, the site should be shut down. Like that file "The Gettysburg Address.txt" is clearly a copy of the movie "The Fellowship of the Ring" because they both begin with the word "The". As for jailing the website operators, we'll go with twenty years instead. And we'll concede that a fine of millions of dollars for illegally downloading a song is too much, so we'll settle for hundreds of thousands of dollars. See how magnanimous we are?

Government: Sounds like an acceptable compromise to me. I would personally like to thank the MAFIAA for being so reasonable and willing to make such huge concessions in order to settle this matter amicably. Isn't it great when we all get along?

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797647)

There seems to be a prevalent misconception that the media industry "doesn't understand" the current situation, that they're merely behind the times, and that we should try to hold discussions with them and compromise with them.

Bollocks. The media industry knows perfectly well how piracy affects their business, both the good and the bad. Don't let the heartshattering pleads of the starving musicians fool you; They are just as brainwashed by the corporations that need their support for every single bit of legitimacy they wish to have in lobbying their cause. It is not a case of misunderstanding, but exact knowledge of the situation which drives them to both embrace piracy for it's marketing benefits and at the same time lobby laws and persecute filesharers. Both of these actions are ways for them to fatten their profits, and they know it and they will only keep pushing us further down into the muck as they try to extort the last bits of cash from all of us before their businesses crumble.

Copyright as it stands now is at an end. The megaupload case is the clearest evidence that the technology that is used to create the web services of today cannot coexist with the idea of intellectual property. The companies that promote SOPA etc. are perfectly aware of the upcoming change, and they are squeezing every last penny out of the system before the executives board their jets to flee to tax havens with their extorted earnings, leaving both us and the artists that supported them equally without money and freedom, which they will rob from us with the help of the gleefully ignorant politicians that either cannot see their intentions or harbor their own.

The last few years have seen copyright destroyed as a mechanism that can be enforced. This coming decade will hopefully see it destroyed as something that should be enforced.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (5, Insightful)

JesseMcDonald (536341) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797669)

We need rational thinking where both sides meet half way...

This topic, like how much murder is tolerable, or what level of slavery is most beneficial, is not one which is amenable to half-hearted compromises. The only difference is that this issue remains undecided.

Depending on the principles you start from, you end up in one of three basic positions: (1) copyright, etc., are fundamental rights, which should persist for at least the lifetime of the producer (and possibly inherited) and should never be infringed upon; (2) copyright, etc., are legitimate constructs, not rights, instituted to promote the social good, and should be set at whatever point optimizes this good, infringement being a crime against society for subverting this policy; or (3) copyright, etc., contradict fundamental rights, such as the right to own and use private property in a non-aggressive manner, and thus have no legitimacy.

Compromise is only really possible within the second category, over issues such as the optimal length, or socially-beneficial exceptions. This is possible because the second position ignores the question of natural rights entirely; it assumes that producers do not have a natural right to control distribution of their work, and that the government has legitimate authority to curtail use of private property. All that remains is to work out the details.

You can't "meet halfway" between category (1) and category (3), or even between either group and category (2), however, without one side or the other forfeiting their integrity. In the case of group (1), while they might be individually willing to shorten their claims or forgo them entirely, they can't make that decision for all producers everywhere. However much they may want to compromise on behalf of "their side", they don't have the authority to do so. Group (3) has the same problem; any compromise would affect not just themselves, but everyone else whose property rights are to be violated to incentivise production of creative works.

A willingness to forgo one's own perogatives and preferences to arrive at a mutually-acceptable compromise is an admirable trait. However, one must never compromise one's core principles—and that is exactly what would be required to "meet halfway" in this situation.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797051)

No, this is stupid. We want people to publish their developments and techniques: so that more people can use them. Also, copyright (for a limited time is a good thing). 70 years after your death (more likely, indefinitely, due to the inevitable increase in this duration) is too long. Patents are probably good, I don't know about the duration. However, design, business method, and obvious patents are not.

Would we be better off without them at all (than what we have now)? Possibly. But it would be best to have a fine-tuned system that actually encouraged invention, instead of stifling it.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (1)

Anrego (830717) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797119)

Thank you!

This is the kind of rational thinking I was talking about above. Cut out the patents on obvious stuff, cut down the duration to something reasonable, and it's actually not a terrible system. The "everything is public domain" approach is a nice pipe dream, but fails the reality test.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797173)

Yeah, what existed for most of human history fails the "reality" test.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (1)

Anrego (830717) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797223)

The internet didn't exist for most of human history.

The ability to infinitely copy something at almost no cost didn’t exist for most of human history.

The ability to distribute something to thousands of people you have never met and have no prior relationship with also didn’t exist for most of human history.

And so on...

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797273)

You and AC have apparently "drunk the koolaid" about copyright, and failed to understand the basic conflict between internet and copyright.
Roman Mir is right. You can have copyright or you can have the internet. Not both. I choose to keep the internet and freedom of expression.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (2)

earls (1367951) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797195)

If you're intent on keeping the current system, you're going to figure out a way to universally enforce it with "fair" penalties that deter the copyright and patent infringement. I've yet to hear a solution, only criticism.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797215)

people were publishing things long before there was copyright enforcement. or patents. in fact, the liveliest periods in world history are these, despite the technological drawbacks of earlier ages.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (2)

clarkkent09 (1104833) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797337)

That's ridiculous. The liveliest time in the world by far is the modern age. Today there are about 300,000 new books published per year, just in the USA. You are telling me there were more published in the years before copyright? Same for inventions. It used to be few rich people who would dabble with new technology in their spare time which is a joke compared to the huge business that it is today.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797755)

That's ridiculous. The liveliest time in the world by far is the modern age. Today there are about 300,000 new books published per year, just in the USA

thats only because your vision and perception is as shallow as to DIRECTLY compare your contemporary time, with the earlier centuries, as if the circumstances in both centuries are the same.

excuse me, but it stands on borderline stupid. because it is too easy to perceive the important circumstantial differences in between the times.

PROPORTIONALITY is important.

back 300 years ago, there were only few who could engage in arts and sciences, due to the social conditions of the time. and, the technological amenities that makes everything easier today, were not around.

therefore, any amount of activity per population back at that period, counts much more than any activity per population for this period. , because there were not only smaller population that could engage in these activities, and the geometrically higher difficulty in engaging these. (no printers, no easy internet publishing or physical publishing houses, no typewriters, no computers, nothing).

the period in between 1750-1850 is the most active period in science and literature in history. and they have had numerous globe-spanning wars, revolutions and bloody massacres in that period. in contrast, the relatively stable and peaceful 1850-2010 period is only dotted with two world wars (granted one in massive scale), but STILL feeding on what was INVENTED back then. what we have are NOT inventions - they are mostly innovations, and reapplications of the principles INVENTED back then. not to mention that most of the world classics date from those periods - the stuff that the people who are authors today, read to mature. even music - a singular person named bach basically 'invented' the western music and its rules, and we are still using those rules and methods in music.

in short, we are stagnant in regard to INVENTIONS since mid 19th century.

and guess what - big buck entered the science business and patents became the fad starting 1850.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797359)

That might be an argument that no patents is better than what we have now. It is not, however, an argument that no patents is the best system. Patents and copyrights are not intrinsically bad. They just seem that way now :(

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797635)

they are intrinsically bad. its no different from giving the ownership of a vast land rich with resources to a single person in hereditary form - that ended up in feudalism.

and similarly, no land grant to any lord was hereditary at the start, or for lifetime. they were given for limited periods of time, or for duration of service. but however, the 'rights holders' kept pushing for more and more rights. they first made them for lifetime, then they made it hereditary. and then they ended up with feudalism.

copyrights and patents create intellectual feudalism. their course is no different than the process that happened in early frank kingdom.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797683)

I am confused by your argument. Are you also specifically opposed to land ownership? Or just the notion of property rights in general?

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38798117)

i am opposed to ownership going over the level of personal items and small belongings. because any further than that, and ownership becomes control. today's big ownerships like megacorporations, conglomerates are no different than feudal lords holding sway over vast domains. noone elects them. and yet they rule over those resources and through them entire fields of life. copyright and intellectual property carries these over into the mental space - so, even people's minds and their creations are being claimed.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797553)

No, this is a balance between how much freedom you want to give up to your government and how much you want to keep (and SOPA and PIPA will be back and ACTA and DMCA exist now).

Trade secrets increase competition, they don't diminish it, because if somebody is doing something profitable, other people will look at it too, and if there is a trade secret involved, they'll be looking for another solution, either they'll find the same one or they'll stumble upon something new.

Trade secrets increase competition and increase research and development, copyrights and patents prevent them.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (2)

chrissandvick (844662) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797175)

Why are /. readers opposed to this? Because they think that their business model is more important than a woodshop founder's business model.

No, (some) slashdot readers are opposed to this because we hold our individual rights higher than your sense of entitlement to the products of our mind. Got to love the idea that you either have to keep that novel of yours in a drawer if it's to be yours or be forced to release it to the "public". Guys like roman_mir aim to prevent speech, prevent innovation, and prevent progress by refusing to reward and recognize the justice that creators have the right to their own creations and to make contracts in regards to them.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797229)

Guys like roman_mir aim to prevent speech, prevent innovation, and prevent progress by refusing to reward and recognize the justice that creators have the right to their own creations and to make contracts in regards to them.

and guys like you are disagreed by thomas jefferson. who do you think, we will hold in higher regard ?

and if you dont even know what im talking about, you shouldnt have participated in a discussion about patents/copyrights in the first place.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 2 years ago | (#38798057)

Guys like roman_mir aim to prevent speech, prevent innovation, and prevent progress by refusing to reward and recognize the justice that creators have the right to their own creations and to make contracts in regards to them.

- really? I have over 300 DVDs on my computer - all ripped from my own DVDs.

I don't download or use torrents, in fact if everybody was doing exactly what I am doing, nobody would even know that there are such things as 'IP pirates'.

Some of the software I build is in public domain, I have copyrights on it obviously under law.

That said - I am completely against all copyrights and patents because that's a government force destroying my freedom and it's done to give the freedom that I have naturally to somebody who gives money to politicians.

That's all that matters - freedom stolen.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (0)

Kenja (541830) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797187)

I forget, are we anti copyright or pro GPL this week? Cause you cant be both. Only way the GPL works is with copyright law to back it up and enforce it. The GPL and other licenses can extend to people usage rights that are not covered by copyright, but they can not deny rights that are otherwise available. So if someone violates the GPL, copyright law resends their rights to the code etc. Without copyright law, there are no penalties for violating the GPL or any other license agreement.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797475)

Without copyright law, there are no penalties for violating the GPL or any other license agreement.

You say that like its a bad thing. Tell us, without copyright law, why would anyone care?

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797643)

Only way the GPL works is with copyright law to back it up and enforce it.

- that's a feature, not a bug. GPL is unnecessary if there is no copyright and it's a good thing.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797765)

Without copyright there are only two choices: secrets or public domain. All of the GPL code would become public domain, but that which is compiled with that code is effectively secret. Without copyright provisions nothing would be able to stop an entity from taking GPLed code and compiling it into another project and then never releasing the source code for that project. Without copyright you might be able to copy around the end result, but you would lack the source code to make any changes to it.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797913)

Without copyright provisions nothing would be able to stop an entity from taking GPLed code and compiling it into another project and then never releasing the source code for that project. Without copyright you might be able to copy around the end result, but you would lack the source code to make any changes to it.

- sure, in many cases that's what is going to happen, and it's not a problem, it doesn't prevent people from working on free software, it likely would mean that more people would use your software that way and you'll get more market share even through those companies, and it is not written in stone anywhere that without copyrights and patents, companies that are profiting from selling some of that software would absolutely not give anything back at all.

But again, it's not a problem, not what people make it out to be.

We need copyright and patent more than ever... (4, Insightful)

Overzeetop (214511) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797191)

...just not as it is currently implemented.

Terms of 7/14/20/28 years may still be appropriate, as the rise of technology has made duplication of intellectual works easier to copy and disseminate. Those who create content are no longer concerned about a dozen possible sources of competition in duplication, but tens of millions. The ease of publishing and typical shelf life should, actually, serve to reduce - not extend - copyright and patent terms, as the ability to bring a product to mass market is on a significantly shorter timescale than 200 years ago.

Interestingly, there are methods in place which provide for (almost) easy compliance with copyright laws. but they apply to only the narrowest slice of content. I'm talking about mechanical licensing fees - 10c per physically recorded track or permanent digital download. Problem is, it only applies to the composer of music, and only to mechanical rights. Not to arrangement. Not to synchronization (video). Not to masters (people performing the work). Not to written or spoken work. Not to images. Not to video clips. Not to patents.

The biggest problem is not the existence of patents and copyright, but the byzantine implementation and licensing, and the one-sided legislation which is being written to perpetuate these institutions.

IP laws are a good thing; the way they are implemented is flawed.

Re:We need copyright and patent more than ever... (3, Insightful)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797665)

Let me put in simple terms: the majority of the planet does not care about copyright and patent law, and with less and less economic power being held by those who care and with more and more economic power being held by those who do not, this problem will eventually cease to exist, but so will the economies that use government power to protect business models and sell people's freedoms for re-election.

Re:We need copyright and patent more than ever... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797733)

..just not as it is currently implemented.

Hmm. Sounds like the True Scotsman Problem [wikipedia.org] .

Do you really believe that copyright and patent could be implemented without leading to the abuses we see today? I don't.
 

IP laws are a good thing

That has never been proven. In fact it may be one of those things which is impossible to prove. I take your statement as a matter of faith. Yours, that is. Myself, I dont believe it. The existence of the internet changes everything.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (2)

clarkkent09 (1104833) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797217)

The reason /.ers are opposed to your "ideas" is that there is apparently some common sense left in the world. Abolishing patents would mean there is zero incentive to invest into innovation and all incentive in the world to copy. A smart investor will look around for idiots willing to put time and money into research and development, buy one sample and send it to China for mass production under another label.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797697)

Nonsense. It's the copyright and the patent idea that is abomination and that prevents free flow of implementations and even worse - free flow of ideas. This ends up hurting the economy, and the people who will not suffer from it will be those, who will chose in their market not to care about such artificial impositions by government power over people's freedom by protecting ridiculous business models, that don't have any actual right to exist (as in to be protected by government force over freedom of the people.)

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797699)

Thankfully most of our investment systems and platforms are also catastrophically flawed.

Re: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797247)

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Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (1)

Unoriginal_Nickname (1248894) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797331)

/. readers support copyright because we are all brainwashed from a young age to believe that copyright and trademarks are natural consequences of a healthy free market economy.

They aren't. They're government-granted monopolies.

You are absolutely and completely right.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (2)

clarkkent09 (1104833) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797511)

They are not "consequences" of a healthy free market economy, they, along with other laws protecting private property, are a necessary precondition.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797621)

When somebody uses his savings to start a woodshop, as an example, if they fail and business dies out and they are out of their investment, there won't be government standing there with a handout, and it shouldn't be - it's personal risk.

The same thing applies to an author or musician. They don't get bailed out if their book bombs or they never get picked up by a label. And you know it.

Same with copyrights and patents - these are government handouts at the expense of the larger free market economy and it makes no sense to protect one type of investment over any other type. Government shouldn't be subsidising any businesses at all ever (banks, insurance companies and Solyndra come to mind).

Except that copyright isn't a "handout" or "subsidy". Nobody's getting any money here, or anything else that will prop up a failed business venture. And you know that too.

You are knowingly and deliberately making invalid and dishonest analogies. You are, therefore, a liar.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (2, Insightful)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797749)

You are a short-sighted person.

It's fine if somebody gets 'bombed' and loses at business - it's a natural consequence of market doing its work, allocating resources in the most efficient manner.

Copyrights and patents ARE a subsidy, and if you don't understand that concept, I suggest you try and visit this site [megaupload.com] , and you will see a nice big government note there, subsidising a failing business model.

It's called FBI, federal courts, police, prisons and eventually military.

Either YOU are a liar or a very unintelligent person.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (1)

Synerg1y (2169962) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797727)

Ok, riddle me this: I'm an inventor, I invented a piece of software that replaces ms outlook with a superior client (friends & family told me).

Do I...

go get a DVD burner and start making discs of my software?

File a patent and let a factory make the disks and handle the marketing when they buy the rights to my product? (I am entitled a split moving forward here usually)

Our system in place is a joke, along w the rest of the bureaucratic US government, however...

You need to protect the inventors too. While the RIAA & MPAA have been abusing the shit out of this system, it's cause the system is flawed, but... that doesn't mean we can "just abolish it". Abolishing it would effectively stop our inventive progress because suddenly its not worth inventing something cause the bigger guy will just out market and out produce you. The system needs to be fixed to be in the 21st century, the fact that it hasn't is a flaw of the government and the copyright people are just vultures trying to feed off a dying carcass.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (1)

brainzach (2032950) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797831)

You already have copyright to protect the software you created. No patents are required for a factory to make you disk or market your work.

Re:Abolish copyrights and patents. (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797891)

Louis C.K. apparently doesn't see this as a problem [louisck.net] , you do. His show is available on torrents and download sites, and he said he understands that risk and is just grateful to people who do end up buying the show for $5. He does have the copyright protection under law, but that's not what he is using in his business model, and he would still end up covering the costs and making all that money without copyright law.

Also you can buy movies, software, music and other bootleg products all over the world for a couple of bucks a disk or less (it can just be part of your ISP service, that's how it works in many countries - you pay your ISP and they throw in 'perks' like that).

Of-course there are torrents, etc. So the question then that you should be concerned with becomes: do I have a customer base big enough that a percentage of it will subsidise my work, past and future, by paying some amount of money to me as an 'inventor' and obviously an investor. You INVEST your time/money into something - you are NEVER guaranteed a return (unless you are a big bank and the Fed is printing for you like the trees are going out of style).

Whether you want to have a contract with a publisher firm - that's up to you signing a contract with them and that's where government DOES have a role - protecting personal freedoms, liberties, but also contracts.

And the copyrights and patents will be abolished anyway, people will suffer from government trying to save the business models of Hollywood and such in US and in Europe, but people who manufacture and produce the real goods don't care about your copyrights and patents, eventually they are the people with real money, savings and ability to use your material to make money. You want to think about that in reality, you want to appeal to that market BEFORE you use your government force to try and stop that and lose completely with those people.

the core of what we need to stop in this (5, Insightful)

RobertLTux (260313) | more than 2 years ago | (#38796997)

Any provisions that can be boiled down to

A Association Is Collaboration

B Accusation is Conviction

needs to result in the bill being killed.

Linking to %BadContent% should not be a crime per say (unless thats a majority of what you do). And Blunt killing of a server (or server farm) should not even be considered.

Also there should be a short waiting period (to send a takedown REQUEST to the site owner) before a whole server gets nuked.

The last thing that should be in any law is if it is found that the complainant acted "In Bad Faith" then he should receive 7/8ths of the punishment that was involved (and be open to CIVIL remedies).
 

Re:the core of what we need to stop in this (1)

s.petry (762400) | more than 2 years ago | (#38798037)

I agree, but think that a part of SOPA and PIPA had merit. Where that is exactly? Dealing with non-US countries that ignore US copyrights, patents, and laws. Happens all the time in China, Russia, Taiwan, etc..

I can only assume that other countries run in to the same issues.

Some people are generally "bad" people. It is a minority, but to believe that everyone is Good given the right motivation is ignorance. As long as they are in your jurisdiction, you can stop them from doing "bad" things to a large extent. When they are not in your jurisdiction, you have to be able to sever their connection to you somehow.

Big surprise (1)

Baloroth (2370816) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797033)

Government/ corporations, by and large, don't know how the Internet works, and what they know about it they don't like. And by "government/corporations" I mean almost any government (note the "almost": it is possible that there are exceptions. Notably, this is not limited to the U: the US just happens to be where many of the most powerful corporations, and the most powerful government, exist) and most non-tech corporations (a few do get it, mostly smaller ones or those who have made their living through the Internet). It is simple, really: government cannot control the Internet, which makes the people in power frightened. They don't realize it can't be controlled (at least not without some major reworking, reworking that at this point will only happen over many dead bodies), but they will damn well try. And corporations similarly fear a loss of control.

Obviously (to the techies) the solution isn't a stick, but a carrot: use the Internet to your advantage. But that would require those in power to change, and those people hate and despise change, since the present order (i.e. their own power) can so easily be destroyed by change.

What they haven't realized is they lost 10 years ago: we are just now coming to the point where that is becoming obvious to them. The real change just comes slowly. It remains to be seen, of course, whether the new order is better or worse than the old: but you can damn well bet the old will fight tooth and nail to stop it.

Re:Big surprise (2)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797227)

They're trying to keep their old business model alive as long as possible.

Understandable, from the point of view of keeping electronic fund management programs, which buy and sell stock based upon numbers moving in certain directions. Who's going to invest in a studio that gives its films away after the initial Tour de Theatres? The belief is that the really big money is in holding onto the film for 2 or 3 hundred years (where they once burned the originals in the backlot, eh?) Hollywoods is cranking out films far faster than they were 10 years ago - I could keep up with that pace at theatres, but not anymore. Something tells me the real money is made in two installations - initial theatre run and initial DVD sale, after that it's a trickle. But it's still their stuff and they want to hold onto it in pur-pe-tu-ity.

Time for government to wake up and realize they're being pwned by business. If government doesn't change, then it's up to the people to change the government.

SOPA in MY Great White North? (1)

Sparton (1358159) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797041)

Not on my watch.

It was amusing to see so many of my contacts (Canadian, American, and many from the other side of the globe) take an active interest in protesting SOPA. With some interesting changes in the Liberal party direction [filibustercartoons.com] , we may see a lot of actively useful resistance in informing and combating such measures.

Re:SOPA in MY Great White North? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797077)

Yeah, except some dillweeds voted for a conservative majority in the last election, so you can oppose anything you want until you're blue in the face - they can still pass it.

Re:SOPA in MY Great White North? (1)

Sparton (1358159) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797469)

The fact that crazy left-wingers may actually get their shit together and stop splitting the vote may stop them from doing something that the majority of voters won't like them for.

I'm not holding my breath, but I don't suspect the Harper Government will be able to keep successive majority governments if they treat most Canadians like complete asshats.

History Repeating itself -Over and Over! (5, Insightful)

na1led (1030470) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797063)

Why does Tyranny always come back to societies over and over. Seems throughout history, humans just can't put an end to dictatorship rule! All these new laws are being put in place to control our lives until we all become puppets on a string.

Re:History Repeating itself -Over and Over! (2)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797241)

thats because people are self-indulged, self-centered. in an environment such as this, the most self-centered get ahead.

The reasons are obvious (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797293)

Positions of power must exist in order for humans to organize themselves. Civilization is logically dependent upon such positions.

People who desire positions of power tend to put effort into attaining them, whereas people who have no such desires tend not to expend such effort (or even to put effort into avoiding the responsibility).

Most motivations for desiring positions of power are either the maximization of personal profit, or the purely corrupt desire to control others. Not all, just most.

So, since power is mostly attained by people who desire it, and most people who desire it do so for harmful self-serving reasons, over time *all* positions of power wind up saturated with corruption.

The only attempts that have been made to prevent this boil down to:

1) divide the government out into multiple branches to avoid concentration of corruption
      a) this fails because the branches can simply find ways to align their corrupt interests, and cooperate in their evil.
2) empower the people to hold their government accountable for their corruption (through voting and legal actions)
      a) this fails because most people are both too stupid and too busy (working for a living + raising a family takes a LOT of time) to actually do this.
      b) also fails because, over time, the powerful use their power to introduce ever more ways to keep their actions secret or otherwise avoid accountability.
3) regularly rotate non-power-hungry civilians into positions of power
      a) this fails because said civilians do a piss-poor job of living up to the unwanted responsibility, resulting in chaos. e.g. athens.

So, to summarize:

those who remember history are doomed to watch it be repeated.

Re:The reasons are obvious (1)

Krokus (88121) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797999)

4. Create a document that establishes rules for preventing the abuse of power by the government.
          a) this fails because, as it turns out, the powerful think the Constitution makes pretty darn fine arse-wipe.

Abuse (1)

DaMattster (977781) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797065)

This is simply abuse on the opposite side of the spectrum of copyright law. Copyrights and patents have a real use to help foster the inventor but when it is abused in sue for profit schemes and the like, it is time for reform, not abolition. The patent and the copyright, as our forefathers envisioned, was not for the major, global corporation but for the small time inventor. Maybe patents should not be allowed to be granted to corporations and universities but individuals.

Like the fscking undead... (1)

advocate_one (662832) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797085)

they just will NOT quit... remember folks... we have to be lucky ALL the time, they only have to get lucky once...

decentralized dns (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797095)

we need decentralized dns,
and then sopa and pipa will be pretty hard to achieve

now with ipv6 knocking on the door (or rather busting it with a kick), the Internet can accept more dramatic changes
DNS should be the next thing that must be changed

Re:decentralized dns (1)

lister king of smeg (2481612) | more than 2 years ago | (#38798111)

If you are running in a *nix environment simply run your own dns server problem solved,
next.

SOPA is not dead (1)

clarkkent09 (1104833) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797111)

If you want a bill to pass you write is with a few outrageous things added that people can get all upset about. Then you remove those additions and get it passed in the form you originally wanted anyway. Its a standard procedure.

Hope the Canadians fight it (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797133)

No more sure sign of a Bought Government than one which acts against the best interests of its people.

Re:Hope the Canadians fight it (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797479)

No more sure sign of a Bought Government than one which acts against the best interests of its people.

Yeah, well, US foreign policy has pretty much been on the side of ramming this down other countries' throats and then arguing for parity domestically.

It was US politicians pushing for ACTA [wikipedia.org] , so, maybe it's time for some Americans with guns to start fixing their own domestic problems ... because they're sure as fuck becoming everyone else's problem.

Your content industries are out of control, and won't stop until they have wiped out the internet and general purpose computing.

With American politicians pushing for laws that make their own law extra-territorial, it's hard not to squarely blame America as one of the biggest threats to national sovereignty most countries are currently faced with. I'd like to see another country to extradite an American for something he did which was perfectly legal in America ... because we all know that the US is currently doing exactly that.

And it's why the rest of the world is increasingly pissed off at America and doesn't give a fuck any more.

America has become that tedious guest at a party who just won't leave.

The SOPA pushers can just screw off (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797209)

If it were to pass it (unlikely). I, and many others, would ignore, and help others to as well. Every single attempt to strangle people on the net has blown up in the PTB's faces.

See, there IS a war going on. (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797287)

And the war is being perpetuated by a certain very small minority in united states, against ALL the peoples of different nations, through the influence and usage of the intermediary groups that are also minority in their countries.

this is not democracy. this is, flat out class war. the only ones not acknowledging that there is a class war, are us, the majority.

Re:See, there IS a war going on. (1)

brainzach (2032950) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797719)

You are in the minority.

Most people believe in intellectual property laws to some extent. They might not agree with the RIAA suing teenagers for billions of dollars, but they also don't think you have a right to download all the movies you want without paying for them.

There is some rational reasons why there should be stronger piracy laws and there are also rational concerns why the laws can be abused and limit freedom of the Internet. Just because some politicians don't agree with you, doesn't mean they are trying to destroy you.

Re:See, there IS a war going on. (2)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38798137)

Most people believe in intellectual property laws to some extent.

and there is our problem. that is creating the grounds for exploitation.

for, these people are causing us to play on home ground of the exploiter. let me picture it with an analogy :

the stance of these people resembles people who believed in aristocracy and feudalism, but thought that nobles should not abuse the people.

as long as you play in their ground, they will have the upper hand.

The EU will hinder the Irish SOPA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797303)

all it needs is one complaint about the lack of due process and the European Court of Human Rights will get involved.
That will tie the Dublin Gov up for 3-5 years at a minimum.
Oh, and the Court's judgement is binding. Eire can't afford the fines unless the likes of Microsoft, Oracle and Adobe who all use the Republic as a Tax Haven suddenly start paying their due taxes.

That is as likely as George W getting a 3rd term as US President.

Canadian Campaign Financing (5, Interesting)

CohibaVancouver (864662) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797431)

Sorry to taint a vitriolic stereotype-ridden debate with facts, but the fact is part of the reason lobbying isn't as effective in Canada is we enacted stringent campaign finance reform a number of years ago. ...something the USA woefully needs.

From http://www.mapleleafweb.com/features/federal-campaign-finance-laws-canada:/ [mapleleafweb.com]

- Only Canadian citizens and permanent residents may make contributions to registered parties, registered electoral district associations, leadership and nomination contestants of registered parties, and all candidates.

- Individual contributions to these political participants are limited to a maximum of $1,000 annually (adjusted for inflation).

- Individuals may also make contributions that do not exceed $1,000 (adjusted for inflation) in total per contest to the leadership contestants of a registered political party. This is an aggregate cap applying to all the contributions given by one individual to all leadership contestants in the same leadership contest.

- Corporations, trade unions, and other unincorporated associations are prohibited from making contributions to registered parties, registered electoral district associations, leadership and nomination contestants of registered parties, and all candidates.

Yes, you read that right ONE THOUSAND BUCKS. Makes it pretty tricky to buy your MP.

Re:Canadian Campaign Financing (2)

IamGarageGuy 2 (687655) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797681)

As a canadian, I think that you are being a little naive about "contributions", considering the reality that a leadership campaign can cost millions of dollars to run. Monetery donations are not the only donations and after all the vast majority of individuals in parliament are lawyers that have spent their careers creating and circumventing laws.

Re:Canadian Campaign Financing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797691)

Pretty tricky Legally that is

Re:Canadian Campaign Financing (1)

compro01 (777531) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797967)

Tricky, sure, but nowhere near impossible.

Rather than giving the money to their campaign, you give it to family members, in the form of low-work, high pay jobs. Or employ the MP in a similar position after they get their asses booted from office.

Does this mean.. (1)

DiSKiLLeR (17651) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797449)

Does this mean we need to organise more blackouts?

I'd like to see google actually blackout properly, like wikipedia did....

I said it elsewhere... (1)

mark-t (151149) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797677)

... and I'll say it again here...

There was an international cooperation of people running websites all over the world protesting SOPA in the USA... how many will do likewise for Canada?

SOPA / PIPA around the World (1)

Evisscerator (1650377) | more than 2 years ago | (#38797801)

The Lawyers who are pushing this agenda should be put on the Big Red Boat and allowed to sink with it in the middle of the shark infested ocean. The Movie and Music Industry need to get a grip and embrace OPEN SOURCE ideas instead of their GREEDY quagmire of DOLLARS !

I wish good luck to *AA with SOPA and PIPA. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38797861)

May all their efforts be fruitful and all their lobbied laws come to pass, no matter how despicable themselves -- and the purchased politicians.

Maybe then Japan's animation, India's cinema and music from may countries will get the chance they deserve.

Good luck, dear *AAs!

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