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Piratbyran Co-Founder Says Stop DDoSing Polish Sites

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the keeping-sysadmins-in-suspense dept.

Censorship 140

bs0d3 writes "Since the news was released that Poland will sign ACTA later this month, activists have taken to the streets in protest. Also, Anonymous has aimed their DDoS cannons at Polish websites. A government minister admitted the government had failed to fully consult the public on the issue. Piratbyran Co-Founder Marcin de Kaminski has been following the issue on ACTA in Poland, and agrees with activists that Anonymous' DDoS is hurting the situation. Now the Polish government is trying to speed up the signatory process, making a statement of not giving in to 'cyber terrorists.'"

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this means (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38816141)

Speeding it up only means they had ever intention of passing it anyways,

Re:this means (4, Insightful)

Baloroth (2370816) | more than 2 years ago | (#38817801)

And now they have every justification for doing so in the eyes of most of their citizens.

Great job, anonymous! /sarcasm

Re:this means (1)

Pi1grim (1956208) | more than 2 years ago | (#38818443)

Well, then most of the citizens deserve the government they get.

Great logic (5, Insightful)

hawguy (1600213) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816145)

The government says "Hey, we really didn't consult the public before we agreed to this, but you know, since some anonymous organization from outside our country is attacking our internet sites, we have no choice but to screw the public as we originally intended and the blame rests soley on Anonymous."

Sounds like a convenient excuse to do what they were going to do anyway, but now they have a scapegoat.

Easy solution (5, Funny)

thej1nx (763573) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816215)

1. Anonymous should simply change their demand then. "We will continue to DDOS the websites unless the all the ministers in present government continue to occupy their position and stay in politics".

2. The Polish government will then announce that they refuse to give in to cyber terrorists and shall immediately resign en masse,and quit politics...

3. Profit!

Re:Easy solution (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38817031)

How many Pollacks does it take to sign ACTA?
One to consult the public on the matter.
One to apply the K.Y. jelly.
One to hold the pen.
The rest to move the desk under the pen to attain a signature.

Re:Easy solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38817329)

You do not know how most of Poland would be glad to see that happen.

Reverse Polish Notation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38816391)

It's time for the Poles to exert their rights and reverse what is happening !

Throw out the moral corrupted bastards !!!

Re:Reverse Polish Notation (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38816521)

Dude - Poland is at least as religious as the USA and the probably an even worse US-brown-noser than the UK. Forget it.

Re:Reverse Polish Notation (0)

fafaforza (248976) | more than 2 years ago | (#38818405)

You're projecting the American Republican religious ties onto Poland, which I don't know is all too accurate. But if you want to castigate all of religion, it's your right.

As far as brown nosing, you try being a border neighbor to Russia and see if you can make a go of it with no allies.

Re:Great logic (4, Insightful)

Xest (935314) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816625)

"The government says "Hey, we really didn't consult the public before we agreed to this""

I don't know why this is being billed as the government admitting any kind of fault, I thought the whole point in ACTA was to get it produced and signed off without the public even finding out, hence the secrecy of negotiations in the first place?

I think when they say they admit they didn't consult the public they're not saying "Yeah, we kind of should have consulted the public", they're saying, "We didn't consult the public, because that was the whole fucking point of ACTA".

Re:Great logic (1, Insightful)

Fri13 (963421) | more than 2 years ago | (#38817147)

Uhm.... No.

First people copy illegally copyrighted material and then officials makes laws. Then people starts protests about all kind things why "piracy is good thing". And then some people start DDoS attacks against officials...

And everything what people only do is proof officials to do correctly.

I would not trust anyone who gets others copyrighted material illegally as they would not respect any open source licenses either as they are protected by copyright.

If I want others to respect my choice to use open source license somewhere, I am going to respect their chosen license or way as well. And I am going to fight against them in same level but with moral and ethics instead piracy and other illegal actions. It takes more time and is harder to do, but results are better.

Re:Great logic (2)

stanlyb (1839382) | more than 2 years ago | (#38817817)

So, let me make it clear, if you are attacked by someone on the street, and if you try to defend, then you should not be surprised that he becomes ever more violent as you infringe on his right to robe you, and thus your actions are justifying his even more violent reactions. At the end of the day, you could just give up and give him your bank account, passwords, the secret ways to satisfy your wife............

Re:Great logic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38817973)

And bullies only beat up the people who piss them off first too!

So you are saying the best way to deal with a bully is to make it easier for him? Wow, your idea of logic is seriously flawed.

Respect is earned, not given, EVER! And respect has to be a two way street (as you point out, You respect my licensing and I'll respect yours), but this is the problem, the laws don't work both ways so there can be no respect.

Where is the punishment portion of the DMCA for abuses?
Where are the balance/controls to prevent abuses in SOPA or PIPA?
Where are the laws guaranteeing that at some point Mickey Mouse will go into Public Domain?
Where is the balance in our Justice system: Looking at a picture of at naked 16 year old I go to jail and on a list for life, but if I rape an 18 year old I only get a few years in jail....

Bullies don't "get it", they don't want to "get it", they are illogical by default (I admit usually by external pressures on them but this can NOT be used for an excuse) and thus dealing with them leaves very few options.

Any news? (4, Insightful)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816151)

Anonymous has been randomly attacking sites for the fun of it for most of it's existence.
They're not interrested in political issues, just attacking sites using any random excuse they can think of to justify their vandalism.
If they ever had ideological goals in the past, those have long since gone.

Re:Any news? (5, Insightful)

Mick R (932337) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816209)

Very "black and white" view you have there. Anonymous would say they had a reason for every action they've taken, but since you've decided it was all just for fun I guess none of that matters. I don't necessarily agree with every action they've taken, but I can understand why people would want to do some of the things they've done.

Re:Any news? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38816345)

Totally agree here. To add to the point:
1) perhaps it is fun? Perhaps some things we do in our life are fun? Perhaps things that we do that will change our lives to better - are fun.
2)Life is changing. Reality is changing. People are changing. Anonymous are not excepton. What they fought before may been won or lost, but it doesnt mean they cant change their goals?

Re:Any news? (5, Insightful)

Hentes (2461350) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816879)

If you want to fight the law by breaking it than you need to be "very black and white". You have to be perfectly clear what your goals are and how will you try to achieve them. You have to take your actions consistently with your communication. Otherwise, you are just a vandal.

It's like saying that "Hey, this cop might have shot two innocent people but it's very black and white thinkign to call him a murderer. I mean, he also shot three criminals that sure balances it out isn't it?" .

Re:Any news? (2, Interesting)

Marc Madness (2205586) | more than 2 years ago | (#38817255)

It's like saying that "Hey, this cop might have shot two innocent people but it's very black and white thinkign to call him a murderer. I mean, he also shot three criminals that sure balances it out isn't it?" .

Whether the victims are criminals or not is irrelevant in ascribing the label of murderer to the police officer. If the officer took a bank robber into a back alley, had him kneel down, then shot him in the back of the head, he would still be considered a murderer. There are your shades of grey, they are hiding in the details.

Similarly, when you're talking about fighting an unjust law by breaking it, that's implicitly a grey area: you have to distinguish between something that is criminal and something that is illegal. To say that you need to be "very black and white" in these situations is, in my opinion, an over simplification of the issues at stake. In the context of ACTA, we can go so far as to ask whether it is criminal for the law to be imposed on the people of Poland the way it is (even though it's not illegal for them to do so AFAIK). Can you then say that a DDoS attack, although illegal, is criminal if it is intended to bring awareness to these shenanigans? (although this is not to say that I agree with the method, it's just to illustrate the shades of grey)

Re:Any news? (1)

stanlyb (1839382) | more than 2 years ago | (#38817869)

Man, boy, grandpa, whatever, let me enlighten you: The only constant/undeniable "laws" are the 11 axioms. Everything else is just a recommendation. And btw, there is a doubt about the 11th axiom, and even for the remaining 10......but anyway, man, boy, grandpa, grow up. THE HUMAN LAWS ARE JUST RECOMMENDATIONS. If you are stupid enough to insist that they are MANDATORY........i feel really sorry for your state of mind.

Consider this (3, Insightful)

openfrog (897716) | more than 2 years ago | (#38818009)

Even if all current members of Anonymous stopped all action upon realizing that what they do is a public relation dream for governments intent on passing censoring legislation, you can rest assured that would continue to see actions done in the name of Anonymous. It is that much of good PR stunt.

So, in the media, instead of reading that 5 millions people signed a petition against SOPA-PIPA, you read that punk hackers have defaced a site or two, and are threatening to wreak havoc. So, the conflict is no longer represented as between a corrupted government and the people, but between authorities in need of maintaining order in front of an assault by teenage vandals wanting to steal things without consequences.

Particularly, observe the way Anonymous played in the media in the last round about SOPA-PIPA. There is no other word to describe them, but as tools. Conscious of what they do or not, they were well on their way to derail the whole public effort with their stunts.

They will not stop by themselves, as I wrote. Collectively, those who wish to see the passing of sane Internet and copyright legislation, or at least stop the legislative push (putsch?) of corporations to take control of it, need to think about the way to stop this. Journalists need to educate themselves about the nonsense of accepting at face value claims that an action has been committed by a group called "Anonymous". Can you verify it? If you can't, then it is done anonymously, perhaps, but simply by vandals, punks, or by whoever's agents for that matter.

Re:Any news? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38817693)

And people like you believe the "reasons" they give. They are internet terrorists....who suck in unwitting people in the public sector to run their little DDOS tool. Perhaps as more and more of those unwitting public people get arrested, tried, convicted, and put in jail, Anonymous will realize the harm they do. To other people.

Re:Any news? (1)

stanlyb (1839382) | more than 2 years ago | (#38817887)

One great mind said this: The only think i am afraid of is stupidity. Anything else i could deal with, predict it, manage it, but stupid people!!!! They are very dangerous and unpredictable creatures.

Re:Any news? (1)

Pi1grim (1956208) | more than 2 years ago | (#38818549)

You sir, are brilliant. Shame you are posting it anonymously, calling anonymous terrorists.

Re:Any news? (3, Insightful)

kiwimate (458274) | more than 2 years ago | (#38817871)

It may be black and white, but it's also correct. The concept of Anonymous is so vague as to allow anyone to engage in some random vandalism just for the fun of it and claim "it got done by Anonymous".

There's no working goal. There's no aim, not even a loose and incoherent one. There are just people who make attacks and say "I am Anonymous". Most of the time the provided rationale is nothing more than "these people are bad so we're gonna do something bad to them".

I'm gald you understand "why people would want to do some of the things they've done". It's pretty obvious that most of the actions ascribed to Anonymous are carried out by people who not only can't construct a coherent explanation of why they're doing something but apparently don't even understand themselves what they're trying to do.

Given that, I think the GP poster's position is about the only logical conclusion you can draw.

Mind you, I apparently have an old-fashioned view about these things. I believe that two wrongs don't make a right.

Re:Any news? (2)

Sarten-X (1102295) | more than 2 years ago | (#38818225)

Mind you, I apparently have an old-fashioned view about these things. I believe that two wrongs don't make a right.

That is an old-fashioned view. With modern global economics, you can take one of those wrongs and invest it in a company in a third-world country for a few weeks while bribing a few warlords with the other wrong to let that company succeed. Tell the warlords that each other stole the smaller wrong. Trade the inflated wrong investment to a small bank for a share in a mortgage debt, showing its rapid growth, then immediately sell the mortgage debt as a promise of future money in exchange for money now to another bank. Take your money, and fund a charity, then use the resulting good PR as a right.

And you still have a wrong left.

Alternatively, simply declare that attacking others is a basic human right. Then your wrongs are automatically right!

Re:Any news? (0)

rhook (943951) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816273)

You act like anonymous is an organized group, they're not. In fact they have no leader and no members list.

Re:Any news? (1, Informative)

N1AK (864906) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816299)

You act like anonymous is an organized group, they're not. In fact they have no leader and no members list.

It is a self-selected group of individuals; many of whom are part of formal or informal groups. Just because they don't have an official rank of 'Grand Imperial Poobah' it doesn't mean that there aren't de facto 'leaders'.

Re:Any news? (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816725)

Since the group is fairly anonymous though, anybody could pretend to be them. It's not the best position to be in in terms of public image.

Re:Any news? (2)

rtb61 (674572) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816889)

It is impossible to 'pretend' to be 'Anonymous', there is no such thing as a false flag 'Anonymous' attack. Any one and any time can conduct and any kind of activist activity in the name of 'Anonymous' and that factually is an activist activity by 'Anonymous'.

'Anonymous' would be quite content for any government department or corporation to attack itself, a lot of those organisations behave in a psychopathic insane manor, so, 'Anonymous' would consider it normal behaviour for those organisations to attack themselves, each other and us.

'Anonymous" celebrates false flag as mission accomplished ;D.

Re:Any news? (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 2 years ago | (#38817015)

I wasn't thinking of government departments attacking themselves, so much as criminal organisations doing something purely for money, but pretending it was a politically driven Anonymous attack. Certain government departments could try to damage Anonymous' image by perpetrating fake attacks against public companies too of course.

Re:Any news? (2)

billcopc (196330) | more than 2 years ago | (#38817609)

I'm not sure I agree, because the usual reaction to non-canon ops is to discredit Anonymous and label them not as activists but terrorists.

I'd say any Anon op that doesn't have a clear anti-oppressive goal to be a potential false-flag op.

Re:Any news? (4, Funny)

AK Marc (707885) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816303)

They do have a member list, but every entry is the same.

Re:Any news? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38816629)

Oh yeah? I'm Anonymous!

Re:Any news? (1)

Hentes (2461350) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816819)

He never said that they were organised. All he said is that they don't have a consistent ideology and attack sites mostly at random making up an excuse for each of them. None of these requires them to be an organised group.

Re:Any news? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38816751)

Oh boy, here is another daily "anonymous are /b/tard kids" post.

Anonymous is a cluster term that refers to (actual) hundreds of groups of people.
Some of them have like-minded goals, some of them absolutely hate each other and are pretty much in constant fights with each other.
Some are completely white-hat at that.
Rarely, something unites most of them for a single cause. /b/tards? Hardly. Nobody uses /b/ anymore for "anything serious". Everyone left it by 2007 for the most part.
The only use /b/ gets (as well as any other random board on any random site, including sites that aren't even imageboards), is as a recruiting ground for numbers and numbers alone.
In fact, the only use /b/ gets is the whole mindless, senseless vandalism and attacking part, whether it is spamming some girls Youtube or some random forum with gore / porn / whatever.

So, please, quit it with this silly nonsense already.

Re:Any news? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38817335)

ehhh they were originally around protecting there right to distribute public domain works freely the whole free longcat raids thing so this is actually fairly close to there very early flag

Re:Any news? (1)

billcopc (196330) | more than 2 years ago | (#38817589)

It seems you still don't quite "get" Anonymous (pardon the pun).

It's not one giant coordinated group of people, but an umbrella name for any individual or group choosing to use the label, along with the massive numbers of lurkers who join in as willing DDoS participants. Many of them follow a loosely aligned hacktivist ethos, others are unrelated troublemakers coopting the name because it's trendy or convenient.

I would dare suggest that the random vandalism may be the result of small fringe groups hiding behind the Anonymous name, or even false-flag operations by governments to hurt the activists' reputation.

Re:Any news? (1)

stanlyb (1839382) | more than 2 years ago | (#38817837)

You make it sound bad, but since when the politics become a good thing????? Or to make it more clear, they are not politicians, which is bad, but if they were politicians, it could be even worse.......anyway, whatever they do, is be definition bad. Cheers.

Assuming Anonymous is behind this. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38816157)

Look into the term "false flag" to see what is really going on here in an attempt to use the reputation of one group to conduct activities by which you can justify an over-strong response that you wanted to perform in the first place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag

So... (2)

Mashiki (184564) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816169)

If the government failed to properly inform the public, yet they're still raming it though. Is that even legal in poland? I seem to remember something in their laws about that being pretty illegal after they got back to that whole democracy thing.

Re:So... (2)

tbird81 (946205) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816421)

It's legal everywhere else it seems.

In NZ our useless Copyright Bill s92a was passed "under urgency" using the Christchurch earthquake as an excuse. Every political party (except the Greens) voted for it. Very few NZ citizens agree with it.

Re:So... (4, Insightful)

Totenglocke (1291680) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816601)

Every political party (except the Greens) voted for it. Very few NZ citizens agree with it.

Hence why I laugh at the notion that the people actually control the government in a democracy. The politicians do whatever they please because the people have no recourse but to vote for a different politician with the same goals.

Re:So... (1)

billcopc (196330) | more than 2 years ago | (#38817619)

They would control the government if they posed a credible threat. Sadly, most first world nations don't even remember how to do that, because the last civil wars were centuries ago.

Re:So... (1)

Pi1grim (1956208) | more than 2 years ago | (#38818585)

You can also laugh at the thought, that government, passing laws nobody is taking seriously is controlling anything. Try to enforce it — and get a crapstorm, plus the next official that will promise to get rid of this law will get your chair in no time.

Re:So... (1)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816615)

It's only law if the people agree to follow it.

See how many of the population pay taxes when they're bankrupt or in jail.

Real cyber terrorists are Hollywood and the RIAA (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38816171)

Now the Polish government is trying to speed up the signatory process, making a statement of not giving in to 'cyber terrorists'.

The "cyber terrorists" are actually the American government and the corporations that control the American government.

The people who collude with the terrorists are the governments who take orders from the United States and enact legislation that was written by U.S. corporations. While the propaganda machine would like to deflect this problem unto protestors, everybody knows that Anonymous is merely making public what would otherwise be a back page news story.

Too bad that Piratbyran has fallen victim to the propaganda. And no, I do not support DDoS (and I do not condemn it either), I merely recognize it as a reaction to an oppressive and irrational trend towards ever more authoritarian governance.

Only stupid people will believe that Anonymous is expediting governments to be authoritarian. Too bad that there are a lot of stupid people in the world.

what a surprise... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38816181)

The Polish government is run by a bunch of pigs.... even if the majority die in some freak accident, the ones left over will just produce offspring through mitosis so not to "pollute" their genetics with noble traits of the peasants.

Re:what a surprise... (2)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816245)

even if the majority die in some freak accident,

You mean like a big plane crash?

Yikes dude.

Re:what a surprise... (2)

Serpents (1831432) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816381)

Actually most of those who died were responsible for stalling the process of adoption of software patents in the EU. They had a different approach to freedom than the current government, which treats it as a commodity for sale

Re:what a surprise... (1)

dokc (1562391) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816467)

Actually most of those who died were responsible for stalling the process of adoption of software patents in the EU. They had a different approach to freedom than the current government, which treats it as a commodity for sale

So let us create another conspiracy theory:
Their airplane is deliberately sabotaged so that people who will sign ACTA come to power.

Punishing the wrong government. (4, Insightful)

Hozza (1073224) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816253)

This does seem like a bizarre reaction from the hacktivists. The Polish government is in the news because they're one the longest holdouts in signing up to ACTA. Surely one of the governments that signed up quickly and quietly, with the minimum of public discussion, is more worthy of our scorn.

Re:Punishing the wrong government. (1)

The Master Control P (655590) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816289)

Someone goes to the other side at the start of the war... meh, they were never on your side in the first place.
Someone goes to the other side in the middle of the war, possibly throwing a crucial battle, "after all we've been through together"? TRAITOR!

That's the basic reaction at play here.

Re:Punishing the wrong government. (5, Informative)

Serpents (1831432) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816385)

The Polish PM boasted in December that pushing the adoption of ACTA was one of the greatest successes of Polish presidency of the EU. They have recently removed this info from his website

Is it possible to punish the wrong Governemnt? (1)

kawabago (551139) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816563)

Aren't they all corrupt at some level?

Hardly unique. (4, Insightful)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816259)

I'm sure there are plenty of historical precidents in which an action is regarded as a form of legitimate protest by the perpetuators, but a form of illegal violence by the state. Eventually the judgement of history will decide, but that can take decades - and really just depends on who wins, and thus who writes the history books. If the US had lost the war of independance, we'd be teaching that the rebels were a bunch of selfish thugs who just wanted to get out of paying taxes.

Re:Hardly unique. (4, Insightful)

walshy007 (906710) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816333)

If the US had lost the war of independance, we'd be teaching that the rebels were a bunch of selfish thugs who just wanted to get out of paying taxes.

You mean to say they weren't? of all the colonies britain put around the world the US seems to be the only one where it resulted in a large war, the rest all progressed along peacefully. Lets not forget that the people of the US were the ones that started violence and hostilities. They wouldn't have even won without the french's support (since the english and the french were always at each others throats of the time, the enemy of my enemy is my friend etc)

The 'taxation without representation' Business could be construed as an after the fact justification. Initially very few americans even wanted to fight the english, they were fairly content. Only after the violent acts were done and britain came down hard on them was support gained. This could be likened to present day fighting in the middle east - a limited number of people cause a ruckus for another country, they overreact and create far more support for the initial cause by the reaction.

Re:Hardly unique. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38816415)

If the US had lost the war of independance, we'd be teaching that the rebels were a bunch of selfish thugs who just wanted to get out of paying taxes.

You mean to say they weren't? of all the colonies britain put around the world the US seems to be the only one where it resulted in a large war, the rest all progressed along peacefully.

South Africa [wikipedia.org]

Re:Hardly unique. (1)

bmo (77928) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816769)

>the rest all progressed along peacefully.

You mean all that violence by the British in India never happened?

--
BMO

haha dude (2)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38817049)

you're funny. so in your alternate reality, boer war and world's first genocide never happened, in india people were not shot and batoned down (and that happened in mid 20th century ha !), endless smaller repressions around southeast asia et al were hallucinations. and just at the turn of the century, british air force (then new) commanders were reassuring british government that palestinians had had learned the value of carpet bombing first hand, since their cities have been bombed by world's first carpet bombing mission.

dude. ...

you're funny.

Re:Hardly unique. (3, Informative)

mbone (558574) | more than 2 years ago | (#38817189)

I guess they don't teach much about the Easter Rising and the Irish Civil War in British schools, nor probably touch on the invention of concentration camps (a British coinage, you know) in South Africa, or the Mau Mau in Kenya, or, well, you get the picture (or, presumably, didn't beforehand). And, while India basically invented non-violent civil disobedience to get its independence more or less peacefully, that certainly wasn't true a century before, in the "Mutiny" of 1857, which was a large-scale war with a considerable number of civilian casualties.

By the way, "no taxation without representation" dates from the 1750's, so it seems odd to call it an after the fact justification.

Re:Hardly unique. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38817717)

No, he's actually right. In all your examples, it was the indigenous people (or previously established non-British colonists, in the case of the Boer Wars) who rebelled against British colonial rule.

The US are the only colony (I am aware of) where the British colonists themselves rebelled against the Crown.

Re:Hardly unique. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38818415)

of all the colonies britain put around the world the US seems to be the only one where it resulted in a large war, the rest all progressed along peacefully

And the British didn't change their approach to governing colonies at all, even after a protracted 8-year war.

Things didn't go along swimmingly for Canada, Australia, etc. in spite of the Revolution, but because of it.

Re:Hardly unique. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38818469)

>of all the colonies britain put around the world the US seems to be the only one where it resulted in a large war, the rest all progressed along peacefully.

As a South African, history is not your strong suit my fiend.

Re:Hardly unique. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38816609)

This is a bunch of dorks DDoSing a website.

And, folks brought it themselves. How many times have you been talking to people about a new movie release, book, softrware package or something; complained about the price; and have the other say "Arrrrrrrr. There's ways around it!"

Hmmm? Old fashioned business model that is being used by content providers, maybe; justification for illegally downloading something? Nope.

Now we have someting that's going to be abused by business and government.

Thanks dorks.

Follow the money (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38816285)

In the last article about these attacks, the list was all information sites. I've never visited riaa.com and I have no reason to ever visit it.
All those types of sites just have the usual press releases, about us, and so on. Ditto for every .gov site ever.

Why isn't anon focusing attacks on e-commerce sites? Sites of entities that support these laws, but will actually lose $$$ per hour if they go down.

Re:Follow the money (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38816605)

Such as? Just look for the RIAA's retail page. They don't have one, because they don't do retail online. Nor do their member companies, for the most part. They supply wholesale, and completly seperate retail companies do most of the actual e-commerce. You could start attacking play.com, the itunes store or Amazon, but these are companies only tangentally related to your actual targets, which renders the attack almost pointless.
 
Also, the Rules of Protest say that if a protest starts actually costing Important People money then screw the law, it's time to get oppressive and stop them whatever it takes.

Got to remember this one! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38816327)

If it is this easy to push a government into adopting legislation, I think I need to remember this trick for our next step of taking over the world!

Polish Police Raid Blogger Over Presidential Sland (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38816347)

Current Polish governmetn headed by Tusk is scared to death by free speech. They arrest bloggers (search "antykomor arrested"), record journaliest phone conversations (search "Helsinki Foundation WrÃblewski"), deny space on the future digital multiplex for not pro-government TV station (search "Trwam denied"). Since Tusk become prime minister, there were several uneplained air crasses that killed: Polish president, the chief of the Polish General Staff and other senior Polish military officers, the president of the National Bank of Poland, Poland's deputy foreign minister, Polish government officials, 15 members of the Polish parliament, senior members of the Polish clergy ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Polish_Air_Force_Tu-154_crash [wikipedia.org] and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miros%C5%82awiec_air_accident [wikipedia.org] ).

can anyone explain why the parent was modded troll (0)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816933)

i mean, what the fuck ? really ?

polish president and HALF of polish government decides to visit russia to warm up relations much to the chagrin of u.s., and their plane just crashes on landing.

and it just so happens that there are various missile shield/military alliance issues going on, and even more coincidentally, poland is to get eu presidency.

fast forward to today and not even a year or so after, polish government is arresting bloggers and passing acta like a little bitch to american private interests.

so, im asking again, why the parent is modded troll ? with all the references and links and all that ?

Re:can anyone explain why the parent was modded tr (1)

qbast (1265706) | more than 2 years ago | (#38817499)

Because like you he is a nutcase? Polish government arresting bloggers, yeah right. You almost got it, only it was one blogger who was never arrested or charged with any crime. But do continue - maybe you could write something about artificial fog or helium too?

How soon some forget (1)

future assassin (639396) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816349)

I bet some of those same people who turned into these politicians were here http://www.lubin82.pl/fotografie1.html [lubin82.pl] fighting the communists and dodging ZOMO bullets and tear gas grenades.

Re:How soon some forget (1)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 2 years ago | (#38818307)

People who were "fighting Communists" in Poland in 80's were left opposition to Communists.

Then US-backed organizations rolled in rolled in, and subverted everything exploiting "enemy of my enemy" stupidity.

Polish debt: 400 PLN per capita per month! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38816451)

According to a website tracking Polish national debt http://www.zegardlugu.pl/ it increased last month by 400zl per person. Thanks to prime minister Tusk we have great live (on credit) here in Poland!

Lawyer will bring prosperity, low, and justice... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38816483)

Lawyer will bring prosperity, low, and justice to Internet users as they did to medical doctors and entire U.S.A! Whait, wait, why my phisician is moving to another state despite my health insurance being over $1000/month?!?!

Stopping is not the solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38816523)

Speeding up and attacking more, both in volume and targets, is.

The polish people are rather conservative catholics so hacks exposing infidelity and adultery in government ranks will have profound effect. They basically need to learn who to mess with... and who NOT to mess with.

Re:Stopping is not the solution (3, Informative)

ruemere (1148095) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816677)

What!?

Dude, we're not THAT conservative. Actually, given that we're part of the Old World, you'd probably hard pressed to find anyone but the most closed-minded people, who would care about who is sleeping with whom.
We have a party leader who's brought a dildo to press conference, we have another who is apparently married to a cat in everything but official capacity, and we've had a share of convicted criminals, low-level swindlers and so on. At the least we've avoided a Berlusconi-level con guy, though.

Regards,
Ruemere

Speaking of DDOS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38816541)

Just today US-CERT decided it would spam everyone with a useless "Anonymous" DDOS notice...

Note they include the justification for crappy DDOS attacks in their advisory...?

" US-CERT has received information from multiple sources about coordinated distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attacks with targets that included U.S. government agency and entertainment industry websites. The loosely affiliated collective "Anonymous" allegedly promoted the attacks in response to the shutdown of the file hosting site MegaUpload and in protest of proposed U.S. legislation concerning online trafficking in copyrighted intellectual property and counterfeit goods (Stop Online Piracy Act, or SOPA, and Preventing Real Online Threats to Economic Creativity and Theft of Intellectual Property Act, or PIPA)."

How it looks in Poland (5, Informative)

lukaszg (1326959) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816567)

Currently ACTA is present here (Poland) in every news since a couple of days. People are furious, I think because: 1) Something such important was done behind their back 2) It certainly may limit freedom and may be cause of many abuses. Top government sites were hacked (as far as I know by different groups, some were quite funny). Despite large number of protests politicians seem to pretend that everything's alright and that they can continue with signing the act (yesterday polish ambassador in Japan was given permission to do that). What's funny is that Prime Minister says it won't change anything - so why to sign up? Many protests are being organised, similarly as with SOPA there are lists of politicians who support the act, some start to have doubts knowing that it may influence their appearance and perhaps future elections (in three years). I think that decisions are already made and nothing can be done. Some more info: http://globalvoicesonline.org/2012/01/22/poland-netizens-protest-governments-plan-to-sign-acta-next-week/ [globalvoicesonline.org] .

Re:How it looks in Poland (2)

BiggerIsBetter (682164) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816743)

This is how it looks everywhere that the USA has reach, I'm just glad that the Polish people are standing up and making noise about it, and that your news organizations are independent enough to keep it in the news. We should all learn from your example.

Re:How it looks in Poland (1)

qbast (1265706) | more than 2 years ago | (#38817513)

It did not work. News stopped reporting it already and government reiterated that they are going to sign anyway.

Good tactics (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38816661)

The Polish government is anonymously attacking websites in their own country to facilitate the creation of a controversial law whilst minimising consultation with the public.

If they are going to be this transparent then might I suggest an appropriate new party slogan? Maybe: "Ha ha ha! We're gonna fuck you all! XD"

Forget they weren't in the Warsaw Pact? (0)

Ice Tiger (10883) | more than 2 years ago | (#38816697)

If you're in the Polish Government please remember you're in the European Union and not the Warsaw Pact.

Re: Forget they weren't in the Warsaw Pact? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38817043)

You really ought to read EU law sometime (not what's discussed in the media and in the talking shops but legislation existing for decades). The EU is at its core about controlled free market, competition and private ownership, by which I mean selling off government to large corporations and then just enough regulation to protect the big guy while erecting a large barrier to entry to anyone else. The EU's economic policy was neocon while America was still enjoying Jimmy Carter.

When I studied law I thought EU Law was going to be the least interesting topic. Well, I was right, it was fucking tedious. But from the PoV of understanding the political change in Western Europe (and now much of the East) it was most insightful. "Competition" laws are as above and social laws are about giving the appearance that everyone has equal opportunity while (i) discrimination can easily continue by merely being less obvious about it; (ii) ensuring everyone feels that achieving equality actually means every man and woman can abandon any role they prefer and contribute to the oversupply of employed service workers. All the good social ideas are in the European Convention on Human Rights, which traditionally had nothing to do with the EU.

The EU is no more for the people than the Warsaw Pact.

Re: Forget they weren't in the Warsaw Pact? (1)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 2 years ago | (#38818383)

Countries of Warsaw Pact, of all things, were least concerned with foreign "IP law". Considering that actual Warsaw Pact was a military treaty, and there was no way to exchange military technology with "The West" legally, it would be strange if it was otherwise.

And then who is polish presidency to sign an (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38817069)

eu-encompassing treaty ? doesnt anything have to get ratified by european parliament ?

Okay.... (1)

Red_Chaos1 (95148) | more than 2 years ago | (#38817257)

"Now the Polish government is trying to speed up the signatory process, making a statement of not giving in to 'cyber terrorists.'"

Seems to me that's like smashing yourself in the face with a brick more just to spite those who were slapping you for being an idiot and doing such a thing in the first place.

ZA NASZA I WASZA WOLNOSC?! (1)

riboch (1551783) | more than 2 years ago | (#38817263)

In Poland we have a motto "Za nasza i wasza wolnosc" which roughly translates to "For our freedom and yours."

These politicians have forgotten from where they came.

Re:ZA NASZA I WASZA WOLNOSC?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38817431)

Someone call Lech Wasa. He the only one that can save them.

Re:ZA NASZA I WASZA WOLNOSC?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38818369)

And give him cape and wizard hat, btw...

Re:ZA NASZA I WASZA WOLNOSC?! (1)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 2 years ago | (#38818451)

These politicians have forgotten from where they came.

From US "friends" that completely subverted former "Solidarnost" leaders by creating an US-dependent government, and turning Poland into the greatest US sycophant in Europe, not surpassed even by Kosovo Albanians more than a decade later?

Instead of DDos (1)

Ogive17 (691899) | more than 2 years ago | (#38817377)

They should work on planting "illegal" files on top government officials' home computers then blow the whistle on them.

Re:Instead of DDos (1)

Ash-Fox (726320) | more than 2 years ago | (#38817877)

They should work on planting "illegal" files on top government officials' home computers then blow the whistle on them.

What do you propose be put on those files? I mean, if the previous Polish presidents can't get removed for calling his opponents a bitch on national, or have well known money laundering, having bank accounts where 'bribes' cannot be monitored etc. What /is/ going to do any damage?

This is also ignoring the fact that Poland is still very much a paper oriented bureaucracy. Poland has never reacted kindly to hostile acts and still many of the people who ran the legal system back under communist rule are still there and still many of the old policies and attitudes remain.

All this information is public, why didn't anonymous do the minimum of investigation into Poland's political history?

I would like to know specifically what 'dirt' should appear on their computer systems, that won't result in a risk of making the situation worse off - since you are calling out for this action, you should have investigated this thoroughly.

Why stop ? (1)

billcopc (196330) | more than 2 years ago | (#38817673)

Let me get this straight:

The DDoS is supposedly a response to the speedy implementation of ACTA, so now that the Polish officials have threatened to sign it anyway, the Pirat guy wants the DDoS to stop ?

Let me translate that into slash-speak:

"I was thinking of stealing your car next Saturday, but since you've been hitting me in the face with a Louisville slugger, I'm gonna steal your car this Thursday"

The only people I know who think that way are thugs and gangsters. I think the attacks need to double in strength and breadth, and for the Polish people to take their protests to the streets. Swarm those government offices and scare the bejeezus out of those smug bastards.

And? (1)

lightknight (213164) | more than 2 years ago | (#38817847)

And if I knew that the Polish government would always speed up passing something into law whenever some group of "cyber-terrorists" started randomly attacking Polish websites, I'd craft a bill of my own, then pay some people to attack some websites when it came up for a vote.

The thought process here -> 1.) I pay to introduce a bill to their legislature, 2.) I stage some random attacks in protest of my introduced bill, 3.) the Polish government screams "Oh no, zee terrorists want us not to pass the 'All Poles must dress in women's clothing and dance funny jigs bill. We must pass it to show them our resolution!" 4.) I get to see a bunch of Poles dress in women's clothing and dance funny jigs.

 

Too bad (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38818075)

And thats the reason polock jokes exist. The stupidity of the polish leadership.

They are in bed with the enemy, and so they too are an enemy and the problem will only grow.

Oh I get it... (1)

3seas (184403) | more than 2 years ago | (#38818089)

Instead of consulting the people, lets just claim they are terrorist and ignore them.

The letter a-ring (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38818143)

Just FYI, it means a mix between "a" and "o" and actually sounds more like "o" than "a". If it's awkward to generate on your keyboard, just type "ao" instead. Don't just drop it and type "a" like the article summary did.

Similarly, if you find two dots over an "a" or an "o" that represents an "e" sound mixin, so just type "ae" or "oe" respectively. If you see a "/" through an "o" that's the same thing; just type "oe".

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