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Hawaiian Bill Would Force ISPs to Track Users' Web Histories For 2 Years

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the honi-ko'u-'elemu dept.

Privacy 200

New submitter mazinger writes "In Hawaii, a bill has been proposed to retain data on Internet users and the sites they visit. Apparently, there is also no requirement for a warrant to obtain the information from service providers. The bill affects not only ISPs but also coffee shops and anyone providing Internet access."

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Why stop there? (5, Funny)

Toe, The (545098) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828607)

Why not just force every citizen to post a continuous blog of their every activity at every moment of every day for all time?

That way, we could all rest assured that our safety is being protected.

camera on head time? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38828687)

Camera on head time,grafted to skulls?

Re:camera on head time? (1)

lightknight (213164) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828997)

Yes, but what if the camera malfunctions? Then you need a camera to watch that camera. But what if that one malfunctions? Then you need another camera to watch that one. And so on.

Waste of money, waste of time.

Re:camera on head time? (1)

g0bshiTe (596213) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829457)

I invented the Spore Camera Monster.

Re:camera on head time? (5, Funny)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829003)

Camera on head time,grafted to skulls?

No... That could film the police. Can't have that.

Re:camera on head time? (4, Funny)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829515)

Thanks for the +5, but this was not intended to be funny.

Re:Why stop there? (2)

elsurexiste (1758620) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828771)

Why not just force every citizen to post a continuous blog of their every activity at every moment of every day for all time?

That way, we could all rest assured that our safety is being protected.

Just to optimise space, we should limit such posts to 140 characters... Why 140? Dunno, sounds nice, I guess...

Re:Why stop there? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38829213)

Why not just force every citizen to post a continuous blog of their every activity at every moment of every day for all time?

That way, we could all rest assured that our safety is being protected.

Just to optimise space, we should limit such posts to 140 characters... Why 140? Dunno, sounds nice, I guess...

Start with 7 (a nice nmber), double it because two are involved, and append zero because that is what its worth.

Re:Why stop there? (5, Insightful)

mr1911 (1942298) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828775)

Your post is in jest and modded funny. Unfortunately it is right on for what the "authorities" would like, except the blog is posted for you by your phone, computer, ISP, neighbor, bank, employer, and cameras covering public places.

It is for safety. Just not yours.

Re:Why stop there? (1)

Tsingi (870990) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828839)

Your post is in jest and modded funny. Unfortunately it is right on for what the "authorities" would like, except the blog is posted for you by your phone, computer, ISP, neighbor, bank, employer, and cameras covering public places. It is for safety. Just not yours.

Yeah, I didn't think it was funny either.

Re:Why stop there? (1)

couchslug (175151) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828893)

"Unfortunately it is right on for what the "authorities" would like, except the blog is posted for you by your phone, computer, ISP, neighbor, bank, employer, and cameras covering public places."

Knowing this, a bright person could use all of these.....as cover.

Re:Why stop there? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38829239)

Why not go further, when they compile your personal info, they're not just using that data, but they're using all data from your colleagues, friends, family, workplace etc pertaining to you.

Re:Why stop there? (5, Insightful)

Stormthirst (66538) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828805)

They do already. It's called Facebook. It's just not a requirement. Yet.

Re:Why stop there? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38828831)

This bill is unnecessary. The Feds already have access. All that's needed is a request for info from them.

Re:Why stop there? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38828835)

Remember Random is Resistance ( http://youtu.be/aE6RtzwVdHI )

Re:Why stop there? (1)

Hyperhaplo (575219) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828849)

No need
This is what facebook and google are for
Just legislate a back.door into each and go right to step 4 ...
4. Profit (invade privacy of citizens at will)

Re:Why stop there? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38828889)

Why not just force every citizen to post a continuous blog of their every activity at every moment of every day for all time?

Isn't that what Twitter's for?

Re:Why stop there? (1)

Aryden (1872756) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828951)

Would you please? It would so help us out in keeping you..."safe". It's for the kids you know.

Re:Why stop there? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38829049)

We went to war with the German Police State in 1941. now we are become them.

Re:Why stop there? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38829509)

Oh please. We do a MUCH better job at spying on our citizens then those lousy Nazi's every dreamed!

Re:Why stop there? (1)

caknuckle (2521404) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828989)

Why not just force every citizen to post a continuous blog of their every activity at every moment of every day for all time?

It's called Facebook, and it seems people feel compelled to post just about every activity they do already.

Re:Why stop there? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38829655)

Why not just force every citizen to post a continuous blog of their every activity at every moment of every day for all time?

It's called Facebook, and it seems people feel compelled to post just about every activity they do already.

Dang, does that mean I am going to have to get a Facebook account?

Re:Why stop there? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38828993)

Why not just force every citizen to post a continuous blog of their every activity at every moment of every day for all time?

You mean like.. I don't know... Facebook?

Re:Why stop there? (1)

durrr (1316311) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829059)

It says it doesn't need a warrant, someone go request the web histories of everyone that supported that bill. Say you suspect them of running a copyright/freedom hating operation.

Re:Why stop there? (1)

SirGarlon (845873) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829079)

Actually Facebook is forcing users to do essentially that [msn.com] , so your wish is one big step closer to coming true. I feel safer already.

Re:Why stop there? (4, Funny)

Hoi Polloi (522990) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829103)

China called, they want their security apparatus back.

Re:Why stop there? (3, Funny)

Anne_Nonymous (313852) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829289)

>> a continuous blog of their every activity at every moment

Okay data is coming out.

Re:Why stop there? (2)

click2005 (921437) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829419)

It wont be long until we get that.

With RFID & NFC electronics in so many devices & ID cards, how long until governments or even advertisers start putting scanners in public buildings, banks, schools, malls or even street corners. You dont need to be able to decode the info to create a unique fingerprint to identify people's movements.

Walmart could figure out how long each person spends down which aisle.
Next time theres a crime you can see who was in the area at the time (useful for identiffying suspects or witnesses).

OK, but only... (1)

argosian (905196) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829453)

...if it has expanded provisions for public employees, particularly legislative, executive and judicial officers of the state. The expanded provisions would include publicly accessible, 24x365 audio/video/GPS monitoring, real-time transcription of all conversations (whether in person, by phone, email, telegraph, sign-language, semaphore, IP over Avian Carrier or whatever) and detailed, publicly accessible accounting of all cash, credit, loan, barter, swap, IOU, promissory and other transactions, transfers, exchanges, conveyances or transformations of wealth, goods, property, influence, information, intellectual property, favors or anything else of any conceivable value.

This is, of course, all in the interest of protecting the children (from growing up in a totalitarian surveillance state) and to curb terrorism (by the state, against it's people and their rights)

They are public employees after all, and since they should have nothing to hide, they should have nothing to fear.

Re:Why stop there? (1)

forkfail (228161) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829581)

Why would we need a Mandatory Facebook Usage Bill when we can get most folks to do it voluntarily?

And those who don't - well, we KNOW they're anti-social rebels, right?

Re:Why stop there? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38829683)

it's called facebook and twitter

I'll predict how the logs will look (5, Funny)

TrueKonrads (580974) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828619)

[10/Oct/2012:13:55:36 -0700] "CONNECT https://www.hydemyass.com/ [hydemyass.com] HTTP/1.0" 200 2326

Re:I'll predict how the logs will look (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38829005)

yeah, one problem with that....

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=308290
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/technology/2011/09/lulzsec-hacker-exposed-service-he-thought-would-hide-him/42895/
http://www.dcemu.co.uk/vbulletin/threads/363171-HideMyAss.com-Doesn-t-Hide-Logs-From-the-FBI
http://www.hackingne.ws/hidemyass-helped-fbi-to-arrest-a-lulzsec-member.html/

They have NO Qualms about handing over all that "personal" information you were trying to protect with no warrant to any government agency asking for it....

Re:I'll predict how the logs will look (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38829127)

Are you sure the provider that loves to rat you out is the best choice? I mean it's your freedom and money (might as well not pay extra if your data ends up in the government's hands anyway) but that doesn't sound like the best choice.

Just wait for the ACLU's lawsuit. (1)

eagle1361 (2557464) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828641)

I'm sure this law will be overturned by the Supreme Court as unconstitutional after a few years of lawsuits and appeals.

illegal regulation of interstate commerce? (3, Interesting)

peter303 (12292) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828659)

One might claim since so much of web commercial activity is trans-border, only the feds can pass this type of law.

Re:illegal regulation of interstate commerce? (5, Insightful)

goldspider (445116) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828749)

I would argue that the Interstate Commerce clause doesn't give the federal government the authority to monitor private communications either. Statists are entitled to their opinions, I suppose.

Re:illegal regulation of interstate commerce? (4, Interesting)

dkleinsc (563838) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828961)

Specifically, the Fourth Amendment eliminates the authority of the federal government to monitor private communications (as interpreted by SCOTUS, phone calls, emails, etc are considered part of the 'papers and effects'), and the Fourteenth Amendment means the same rule also applies to the states.

Not that that's really going to stop this sort of thing from being implemented, since the only opposition will come from those without political power.

Re:illegal regulation of interstate commerce? (1)

SirGarlon (845873) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829099)

This is a bill in the Hawaii state legislature, as TFS clearly says.

Re:illegal regulation of interstate commerce? (1)

goldspider (445116) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829153)

Perhaps you should read the post I replied to for context.

Re:illegal regulation of interstate commerce? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38829385)

Hence the part of the comment about the 14th amendment.

Re:illegal regulation of interstate commerce? (1)

KermodeBear (738243) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828851)

Please don't encourage them any more...

Aloha! Vote against to keep healthcare costs down! (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38828661)

Hawaiians, vote this bill down!

You see, I'm an internet Troll. I have no life. I do this because I'd drink ....well, I take that back. I drink and Troll.

If you vote for this and it spreads to other states, I'd have no choice but to hang out in front of Apple Stores with a sandwich board that says nasty things about Apple users.

Then, after I call a few men "Apple Fags",. they'd kick my ass and send me to the hospital. Now since I'm unemployed, I have no health insurance which means the hospitial will have to eat it. They then will pass the costs on to insured patients thereby increasing the overall costs of healthcare hurting you!

So, vote this bill down so that we all can keep healthcare costs down!

Re:Aloha! Vote against to keep healthcare costs do (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38828979)

So, vote this bill down so that we all can keep healthcare costs down!

You assume that you'll survive the beating. If you don't then there is no healthcare cost and nothing of value was lost.

Re:Aloha! Vote against to keep healthcare costs do (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38829407)

A "beating" by Apple fags should be easily survivable.

Another example of clueless legislators... (5, Insightful)

Iphtashu Fitz (263795) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828679)

Once again we see a proposed law that will only impact law abiding people (and be a major invasion of their privacy to boot).

If I was intent on covering my tracks I could take so many routes:

- Download Tor and use it to privatize all my browsing
- Search for open SOCKS proxies, etc. to exploit
- Rent a VPS out of state and set up a proxy on it

and any one of hundreds of other approaches to take...

Re:Another example of clueless legislators... (1)

udoschuermann (158146) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829067)

And then, when it is noticed that your online activities diverge significantly from the norm, they may have cause to investigate you as a potential terrorist because, you know, why else but for nefarious reasons would you want to hide your activities from the good people who are trying to keep us all safe?

Re:Another example of clueless legislators... (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829249)

it'll just look like you're a normal _working_ slob using vpn to connect to work.

Re:Another example of clueless legislators... (2)

w_dragon (1802458) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829315)

VPN doesn't obscure endpoints. They can see if you're connected to your employer or to some anonymizing service.

Re:Another example of clueless legislators... (1)

Creepy (93888) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829409)

Yep - my thought exactly - easily circumventable through a proxy server, and throw in wi-fi hotspots as well, since any data collected has almost no traceability after the user leaves the hotspot, and is especially untraceable if the user clears any DHCP cache. Even worse, coffee shops would likely be considered an ISP and would need to save their logs, even though many of them don't even have logging turned on (because they just run it through a hardware router to the real ISP). This is not as easy as it sounds - additional disk would need to be bought, the router configured to write logs to that disk, and the hardware may even need to be upgraded to support writing to external disk.

What they could tell is that the user used a proxy server a lot, and maybe that alone would suggest they are possibly involved in criminal activity and should be investigated.

But let's not linger on just privacy implications - for ISPs this is a major headache as well (aside from additional hardware costs), as every web enabled application a customer could use would need to be logged, including ones that normally aren't logged, like ping.

On the other hand, how many smart criminals are there? Aside from some major cleanup (require a court order, specify what protocols are enforced, require it only at major ISPs, not coffee shops, etc) such a law could help prosecute most criminals. It wouldn't do anything against someone like me because I would use a proxy server AND probably a coffee shop AND encryption if I wanted to do something illegal (and then wipe my DHCP cache, clean up logs and temp files, etc), but Joe Average doesn't know about such things. Even if the feds seized my hard drive, it'd be encrypted. If possible, I'd have a second password that would cause the drive to randomize the bits (self destruct). I'm not a criminal, so I don't need these precautions (aside from an encrypted hard drive on my laptop in case it's stolen).

Let HI internet access go dark (5, Insightful)

snobody (990539) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828697)

If the ISPs had any balls, they'd tell the HI government that, if they pass this law, the ISPs would simply cease to provide internet service to HI residents. And if they do pass the bill, make good on the promise. It's either that or be forced by the HI government to buy terabytes of disk space and thousands of dollars of computers to track everything the HI internet user does. Politicians should not make laws about technology that they don't understand.

Re:Let HI internet access go dark (5, Insightful)

Tsingi (870990) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828941)

If the ISPs had any balls, they'd tell the HI government that, if they pass this law, the ISPs would simply cease to provide internet service to HI residents. And if they do pass the bill, make good on the promise. It's either that or be forced by the HI government to buy terabytes of disk space and thousands of dollars of computers to track everything the HI internet user does. Politicians should not make laws about technology that they don't understand.

You mean the balls to go out of business?
OTOH they could send the data to the government on a weekly basis and let them sink or swim.

Where would you like that sent sir?

No one uses the cliche "1984" anymore, we're living it.

Re:Let HI internet access go dark (4, Insightful)

MozeeToby (1163751) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829151)

You mean the balls to go out of business?

Sad but yes. Would you help the empire build the Death Star?

Re:Let HI internet access go dark (5, Funny)

rgbscan (321794) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829227)

My friend here's trying to convince me that any independent contractors who were working on the uncompleted Death Star were innocent victims when it was destroyed by the Rebels. But I know a contractor listens to his heart when taking on a job :-)

Re:Let HI internet access go dark (2)

CaseCrash (1120869) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829501)

Sad but yes. Would you help the empire build the Death Star?

Are you kidding me? Hell yes!

If you wouldn't jump at the chance to work on something that awesome you should just hand in your geek card right now.

Re:Let HI internet access go dark (4, Interesting)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829159)

If the ISPs had any balls, they'd tell the HI government that, if they pass this law, the ISPs would simply cease to provide internet service to HI residents. And if they do pass the bill, make good on the promise. It's either that or be forced by the HI government to buy terabytes of disk space and thousands of dollars of computers to track everything the HI internet user does. Politicians should not make laws about technology that they don't understand.

You mean the balls to go out of business?

1) You can also go out of business by being mandated costs you cannot afford.

2) Most companies providing Internet in the US now are multi-state, so dropping one would not end their corporate existence.

But, if this applies to hotel Internet as well, I could see the hotels dropping it, and if all the tourists suddenly go WTF together...

Re:Let HI internet access go dark (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38829177)

Considering that Hawaii has a population of 1.3 million people that would hardly be the "everything" needed to drive most large ISPs out of business. Not to mention the added cost to the ISPs of maintaining those records might just eliminate any benefit of providing service to those 1.3 million people.

Re: "Politicians should not make laws ... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38828969)

about technology that they don't understand."

In point of fact Politicians should not make laws about any issue (technological or otherwise) that they don't understand!!

Re:Let HI internet access go dark (1)

Phoenixlol (1549649) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829055)

Now that you bring that up, I'm willing to bet one or more of the lawmakers or their buddies have invested in the company that will be providing the extra equipment/services.

Re:Let HI internet access go dark (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38829081)

Clearly this is all a secret plot between Seagate and Western Digital.

Hawaii is simply their test market. This is their McRib.

Re:Let HI internet access go dark (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38829105)

It's either that or be forced by the HI government to buy terabytes of disk space and thousands of dollars of computers to track everything the HI internet user does.

The ISPs should just email all the log entries to the HI lawmakers' email addresses. In real time, as they happen. Let the state email system keep all the records, not the ISPs.

Re:Let HI internet access go dark (1)

mlts (1038732) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829283)

Isn't forcing a business to take expenses such as having to buy an EMC VNX SAN a tax?

This is pretty much taxation without representation, unless the HI government is willing to spend the money to hand each ISP the proper disk space to do this.

The more governments and ISPs press this, the more people will go to VPS services. Offshore VPS services in countries that have real privacy laws (Sweden/Switzerland), or in nations hostile to the US.

Then, the serious computer crime cases will be impossible to investigate because everything from the endpoint on up would be encrypted.

Of course, the next step is doing like Pakistan and banning VPNs, but that will start a cat and mouse game. Yes, it can be won by using a Great Firewall-like system, but even that isn't a total victory.

Re:Let HI internet access go dark (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38829285)

Exactly! There's barely any profit in the consumer Internet provider market as it is, such a requirement like this would be nearly impossible. I know, I manage web filtering/logging for a small enterprise (sub-2000 employees), and the size of this data is much more than most would think. The data costs are nothing though when considering the time and manpower it takes to maintain and react to such a requirement (we need these logs TODAY!!!!!).

Re:Let HI internet access go dark (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38829319)

THere may be a better way to fight this: we all know this would be very expensive to implement. THink of the thousands of dollars etc, so figure out how much you will raise your rates to cover the expense. Contact your customers and ask them to contact their elected official because this legislation would force you to raise rates to cover the expenses. I'm not sure how many will respond, but that seems like the best way to try and prevent this from happening.

Can you help? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38828707)

Im looking for a bento (that's japanese for lunch) box, it cant be pinku (thats japanese for pink) or any girl color. It has to be of 2 or more kotoba (thats japanese for 2 compartments) and has be be chibi(small) sized. And has to be really kawaii (cute). Also It has to be about 10-20 bux. And you have to post pics of it first (i want to make sure it's kawaii [cute]). And it would be nice if it came with matching chopstick holder (WITH chopsticks). OH! and it CANNOT have any cartoon pictures, or be made out of plastic. It has to be made of ceramic, or something like that. Also it would be nice if it was made in japan. and not in china or corea (korea) or whatever. I have found a bento box similar to the one im describing in e-bay, but it was 1 kotoba, and i dont want my gohan (rice) to touch my other things (it can get wet and i would not like that, plus 2 compartments looks more kawaii)

GPS tracking !!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38828713)

how about they implant a GPS tracker in everyone's ass so they know exactly where they've been for the last 2 years.

wtf ... this is getting out of hands.

Re:GPS tracking !!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38828793)

If you carry a phone they already have that information.

As as soon as... (1)

Krazy Kanuck (1612777) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828723)

.. you hand over all records of your finances, political backing, lobbyist funding, and implant a GPS/Audio/Video unit in your body. So we can microscopically assess your soul we'll let you track our activity over the internet.

I suspect this is just another bait and switch though, push out some extravagant bill that they don't expect 75% of to pass, then whittle it down to something less volatile but still infringe on our privacy.

Re:As as soon as... (1)

Krazy Kanuck (1612777) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828819)

BTW, I have never visited Hawaii, but it is on my "bucket list"; this passes and I will likely remove it. St. John's will move up the list which is just as good if not better.

Re:As as soon as... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38829203)

Been to both and while I like St. Johns, Hawaii really is way better. The beaches are nicer, the cities are cleaner, the outdoor activities are more diverse and numerous, and the parties as just as colorful and fun.

Though I admit that for bringing back cheap booze, U.S.V.I. is hard to beat.

Something like this happened in Germany (2)

Dr. Evil (3501) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828753)

Now McDonald's is using SMS to log identities. This means now only the big guys can afford offer free Internet access.

Just another way to crush the little guy.

Oblig XKCD (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38828763)

Re:Oblig XKCD (0)

pscottdv (676889) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829041)

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but that particular comic does not apply to every slashdot article that has appeared this morning.

Glorious mustache (1)

ehiris (214677) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828779)

John Mizuno wants to make sure his glorious mustache will be safe from the terrorists.
Seriously, don't they have enough problems in Hawaii? The hotels are pumping mad sewage into the coral reef and they care about what people do on the internet?

Hawaiians - Stick to making the Punch (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38828859)

Hawaiians - Stick to making the Punch

Pollute the data (4, Insightful)

blackfireuponus (2026394) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828885)

The only way to fight this in the long run is data pollution.
I heard about it in another thread that Pirate Bay adds fake IP addresses to the real ones.
In the long run more sophisticated tools for this purpose will emerge, and Anon can graduate from the LOIC to something that will have a permanent impact.
We won SOPA, and a major website is taken down the next day.
It is obvious that preventing laws like this is not going to stop data retention in the long run.
The path forward is to destroy the credibility of the data they collect.

I've got an idea, (2)

one cup of coffee (1623645) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828901)

How about if people propose and pass a law specifically banning ISPs from tracking their users or keeping logs on their web histories under any circumstances?

Re:I've got an idea, (3, Insightful)

Aryden (1872756) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829035)

Because "people" as in "we the people" do not pass laws. Congresscritters on the hill pass the laws that their corporate overlords want them to pass regardless of us. The exceptions are when you have such a multi-million person outcry, they have to listen.

Re:I've got an idea, (1)

one cup of coffee (1623645) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829327)

I think you were reading my post a little too literally. But anyways, there's no need for "we the people" to give in to cynicism and defeat ( I'm not saying you are, I'm just saying generally, cause it happens all the time) It could happen, probably slowly like medical marijuana or gay marriage or something like that.

Umm, what? (4, Interesting)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828905)

Does anybody have any idea what suddenly possessed Hawaii to freak out about that 'internet' thing that those hackers and terrorists are using?

Has the state been chosen as a soft target in which to pass model legislation by some sinister entertainment industry and/or surveillance state interest group? Is some two-bit local senator trying to weather a 'caught-with-2.5-prostitutes-in-a-blood-soaked-bed' scandal? Are radical Hawaiian nativists waging a guerrilla war to re-establish the monarchy? WTF?

Re:Umm, what? (1)

misexistentialist (1537887) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829441)

The trend is not specific to Hawaii. See HR 1981.

Re:Umm, what? (1)

XrayJunkie (2437814) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829479)

So, Hawaii will have an internet island-solution?

Re:Umm, what? (1)

MadKeithV (102058) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829547)

Does anybody have any idea what suddenly possessed Hawaii to freak out about that 'internet' thing that those hackers and terrorists are using? Has the state been chosen as a soft target in which to pass model legislation by some sinister entertainment industry and/or surveillance state interest group? Is some two-bit local senator trying to weather a 'caught-with-2.5-prostitutes-in-a-blood-soaked-bed' scandal? Are radical Hawaiian nativists waging a guerrilla war to re-establish the monarchy? WTF?

They are just pissed that "surfing" no longer means what it used to mean, and they are trying to take it back.

Too much time on their hands (1)

GarryFre (886347) | more than 2 years ago | (#38828929)

The biggest threat are these lawmakers. We need laws to protect us from lawmakers!!!

Re:Too much time on their hands (1)

Aryden (1872756) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829075)

public votes. Senate / Reps propose the bills, the citizenry votes. This would have to have some heavy legislation behind it so that idiots aren't swindled into thinking something is good for them.

Re:Too much time on their hands (1)

udoschuermann (158146) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829147)

Make it illegal for lobbyists to buy the lawmakers, no matter by what means they try. Only then is there a chance that the lawmakers return to serving the people and the nation, rather than the control freaks and corporations.

Re:Too much time on their hands (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38829359)

Exactly. As much damage as these A-holes do, it would be far, far better to only allow the legislature to be in session once a year for a week. Better yet, require anything beyond small budget tweaks to be on a referendum.

"Should we require ISP's to retain all records about which website you visited for two years?".

That would fix the f*ckers.

Boycott (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38828935)

How could a ragtag bunch of geeks and nerds* make this bill go away..

Hmmm..

How much of Hawaii's economy is based on tourism?

Get this story out there, and let Hawaii's elected officials, and it's local news channels, know we'll all be boycotting Hawaii as a tourist destination if this passes.

Write, email, call hotel/resort chains, telling them the same thing.

Airlines too, while we're at it.

If one thing can come form SOPA/PIPA, I hope that it generates *continued* involvement, engagement, and action by the tech community as a whole. The apathy, laziness, and silence needs to end.

Just my $0.02US

*I am a geek/nerd, and I vote: at the ballot box, and with my wallet.

Wow (2)

koan (80826) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829025)

His companion computer crime bill appears to make stealing your neighbors WiFi a felony, that is, if it isn't already.
"unauthorized computer access in the 3rd degree from a misdemeanor to a class C felony." Or if you get online somehow without being "documented" so maybe VPN connections or SSH?
Another "democrat" has stuck another bill in there with the same wording most likely in case one doesn't make it through the other will, seeing a lot fo this the same bill different names, sneaky.

This seems thuggish and since the records are open to anyone (except most likely the actual person being documented) it appears to have other uses in mind.

Sad (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38829199)

This is probably just the first step towards getting something like this pushed nationally. I guess I better start helping my folks use SSH forwarding.

Tracking Bills (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38829241)

Before any tracking bills should be passed, I think we need at least 5 years time spent under another preceding bill. In the bill we would require that all people and their staff running for office and all people in office and their staff are monitored.

That way we have information showing that they are in fact not terrorists themselves looking to topple the city/state/country in regulations and other costs.

Plus it shows if the people themselves are tied to other entities (corporations) who may have interests that line up with terrorist activities.

I suspect we'd find a lot of foreign interests at at work, terrorist or not. Which should be fully disclosed before pushing through bills like this.

Noise (1)

LoudMusic (199347) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829261)

Just fill their stupid database with so much junk information that the data is worthless. Run a program that mimicks regular internet use to sites you usually go to, and a whole bunch of others.

"Mr. Doe, can you explain your reasons for visiting these illicit sites on these 137 different occasions?"

"Yeah. I run a program on my computer that randomly loads websites. Wanna see? Thanks for wasting my time and tax dollars. Can I go now?"

Here we go (1)

DaMattster (977781) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829277)

We're rapidly headed towards a police state! If you live in Hawaii and are registered to vote there, please, please write your representatives and have this defeated. For one, it is a gross invasion of privacy. For another, it is a huge and needless expense on the ISP. The ISP is burdened with extra server and storage needs as a result of such politician shortsightedness. Think of the expense that it places on small businesses like coffee shops and smaller motels that provide wireless access as a courtesy. Now, they have to purchase servers for data archival. Additionally, this is a burden on tax payers because it will be expensive to enforce. Your politcians should be working to improve lives, not increase the reach of the state. Last time I checked, the economy was poor. Tell your representatives to work on fixing the economy, not trying to make things safer through the enactment of senseless laws.

Looking at the bill (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38829363)

From the PDF:

The required data for the consumer records shall include each subscriber's information and internet destination history information. Destination information shall include any of the following:

  1. Internet protocol address;
  2. Domain name; or
  3. Host name.

So it seems that the ISP (or whichever entity is charged with retaining the info) would have a choice. It would be interesting to know which piece of information they would prefer to log. (I suppose they could log all three, but would they want to? Are ISPs that creepy?)

If they choose to log only IP addresses, that could be ambiguous (at least in cases of shared hosting). If they choose to log domain names, that info would likely be taken from the clients' DNS queries, unless the ISP is looking deeper in the packets. If they're logging the host name, I'm guessing that would come out of the HTTP header, which I don't think would be possible when SSL/TLS is being used.

I'm not sure if I have a point, but it seems there would be a big chunk of traffic that ISPs wouldn't be able to properly log without deep-packet inspection.

Say again, who will pay for this monitoring? (1)

MarkvW (1037596) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829471)

Citizens will bear the cost of this monitoring (because the providers will pass it on to them), but only the media will benefit.

Why would we want to pass a law that gives the media the power to monitor us? Even worse, why would we want to pay for the indignity?

That Hawaiian legislator is not looking out for the people who voted for him. He's looking out for the people who paid for him.

Birth Certificates to be included? (1)

Tokolosh (1256448) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829635)

Long form, please, available to anybody who asks.

This could eliminate a lot of problems!

Not possible (5, Informative)

Charliemopps (1157495) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829637)

I work for an ISP and was involved in a project in which we were just trying to monitor DHCP requests from users for a study... The size of the log files were upwards of 6gigabytes per DAY. If we actually tried to track and time stamp every IP they hit? It wouldn't even be remotely possible. The amount of data and the numbers of people and software required to pull it off would dwarf our entire operation. And that's BEFORE everyone starts messing with the system. People could just set up scripts to randomly ping IPs all day long and it would devastate any logging system in short order. There's no way the ISPs would put up with this.

Hawaiian Bill! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38829645)

That guy is the meanest hombre this side of the International Date Line!

Isnt Google going to be doing this for them anyway (1)

nickebrenner (2560019) | more than 2 years ago | (#38829677)

Isn't Google going to be doing this for them soon anyway?
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