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Xbox 720 Might Reject Used Games

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the insert-coin-to-continue dept.

Microsoft 543

silentbrad writes "Online passes are a recent staple in staving off used sales. Limiting what used buyers can access is a protective measure for publishers, much to the chagrin of parts of the gaming community. Chris Kohler of Wired argues that the death of used games is inevitable, and passes are the first step toward something exactly like a native anti-used game something integrated into consoles. He notes, of course, that digital is the future of buying games, but in the meantime we may be looking at 'an interim period in which the disc as a delivery method is still around but ... becomes more like a PC game, which are sold with one-time-use keys that grant one owner a license to play the game on his machine.' Also at Kotaku, the source for the Wired article (which is the source for the IGN article)."

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543 comments

The first Slashdot troll post investigation (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831499)

The last few months I have been doing some research into the trolling phenomenon on slashdot.org. In order to do this as thoroughly as possible, I have written both normal and troll posts, 1st posts, etc., both logged in and anonymously, and I have found these rather shocking results:

* More moderator points are being used to mod posts down than up. Furthermore, when modding a post up, every moderator seems to follow previous moderators in their choices, even when it's not a particularly interesting or clever post [slashdot.org]. There are a LOT more +5 posts than +3 or +4.

* Logged in people are modded down faster than anonymous cowards. Presumably these Nazi Moderators think it's more important to burn a user's existing karma, to silence that individual for the future, than to use the moderation system for what it's meant for : identifying "good" and "bad" posts (Notice how nearly all oppressive governments in the past and present do the same thing : marking individuals as bad and untrustworthy because they have conflicting opinions, instead of engaging in a public discussion about these opinions)

* Once you have a karma of -4 or -5, your posts have a score of -1 by default. When this is the case, no-one bothers to mod you down anymore. This means a logged in user can keep on trolling as much as he (or she) likes, without risking a ban to post on slashdot. When trolling as an anonymous user, every post starts at score 0, and you will be modded down to -1 ON EVERY POST. When you are modded down a certain number of times in 24 hour, you cannot post anymore from your current IP for a day or so. So, for successful trolling, ALWAYS log in.

* A lot of the modded down posts are actually quite clever [slashdot.org], funny [slashdot.org], etc., and they are only modded down because they are offtopic. Now, on a news site like slashdot, where the number of different topics of discussion can be counted on 1 hand, I must say I quite like the distraction these posts offer. But no, when the topic is yet another minor version change of the Linux kernel, they only expect ooohs and aaahs about this great feat of engineering. Look at the moderation done in this thread to see what I mean.

* Digging deep into the history of slashdot, I found this poll [slashdot.org], which clearly indicates the vast majority does NOT want the moderation we have here today. 'nuff said.

Feel free to use this information to your advantage. I thank you for your time.

Anonymous cowards are... well, cowards.

Re:The first Slashdot troll post investigation (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831801)

tl;dr;fuck off

Re:The first Slashdot troll post investigation (-1, Offtopic)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831995)

* More moderator points are being used to mod posts down than up.

/. employees have an infinite number of mod points that they can used to mod down obvious trolls or spam (usually anon cowards).

Furthermore, when modding a post up, every moderator seems to follow previous moderators in their choices, even when it's not a particularly interesting or clever post [slashdot.org]. There are a LOT more +5 posts than +3 or +4.
* Logged in people are modded down faster than anonymous cowards.

Both of these points follow from ordinary moderators not reading below the threshold of 2. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Re:The first Slashdot troll post investigation (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38832097)

> There are a LOT more +5 posts than +3 or +4.

Because the default view only shows the top rated posts, duh. And lol if you think slashdot users change their defaults because some obscure FAQ tells them they should.

Most commenters here don't seem to realize they are only talking to themselves. The vast majority of /. readers never see their posts.

That's Cool - I Reject Used Pussy (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831505)

If I'm gunna fuck a bitch, I insist that she be a virgin, or have her vag sewn up like a virgin.

The first time I'm with her, it needs to feel like I'm entering a tight virgin, even if it doesn't feel that way when I'm done with her.

You know why they call it Xbox 720 (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831507)

Because you should turn around twice and walk away.

Re:You know why they call it Xbox 720 (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831583)

goddamnit if you started facing it you'd just turn around twice and walk into it.

Re:You know why they call it Xbox 720 (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831649)

You should back away. It is bad mojo to turn your back to it.

Fine, I feel bad for writing that. How come all of the gaming console companies have to be total ass badgers? I just want to have a flight simulator and give my money to a company not run by jackasses.*rant off*

Re:You know why they call it Xbox 720 (5, Insightful)

tripleevenfall (1990004) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831719)

Personally, the online keys were the last straw for me.

The fact that used games were available at half price was the reason I was playing in the first place. I trade the first 6-12 months of a game's release for the discount. I wouldn't pay $60 to cram into Modern Warfare on release day with everyone else anyway.

This is the miscalculation the game companies are making - they won't be able to force us into playing $60 and up for games we'd previously bought used for $30, we just won't play the games at all.

They are also missing the point that the presence of a used market drives sales, because you aren't so skittish about blowing $60 on a game if you know you can recoup some of that later.

This is a bad idea. I know that suits and PHB's think "Well, they can't get used games anymore - they'll buy the full priced ones instead!" but they've got another thing coming.

Re:You know why they call it Xbox 720 (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831871)

Game companies don't care that you won't pay $30 for the used game anymore. Remember, THEY don't get that $30. They get NONE of it. To them, this is perfectly fine.

I'm not saying that they should be doing this, I'm just saying they did think it through.

Re:You know why they call it Xbox 720 (5, Insightful)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 2 years ago | (#38832007)

What you're missing is that, without a used market for buyers of new games to recoup some of the cost of their unwanted games with, they simply won't buy as many new games.

Re:You know why they call it Xbox 720 (4, Insightful)

bondsbw (888959) | more than 2 years ago | (#38832035)

It's not just about the cost. Today's games also focus on building up a community. Even games like Halo have a huge following of people who play just to have fun with their friends, and who would never play if not for that social interaction. (I am one of them.)

If Joe Blow can't buy a reduced-cost copy of Halo, he won't be part of the growth of such a community. And if I can't sell my copy, I might not be willing to try it out to begin with.

Re:You know why they call it Xbox 720 (4, Insightful)

tripleevenfall (1990004) | more than 2 years ago | (#38832063)

Without a used market they won't sell me a new console, controllers, etc.; they'll lose revenue on the few games I would actually buy new; they'd lose any money I might spend on digital purchases as well.

There's also the risk I would be driven to a competitor's product, or lose interest in gaming altogether, which costs them down the road.

Re:You know why they call it Xbox 720 (5, Interesting)

St.Creed (853824) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831875)

You're very right. The automotive industry does its best to maintain the used car market precisely because of this reason: if buyers of new cars don't have an outlet for their cars, they stop buying new cars every 2-3 years but instead drop down to buying one every 10 (or even more) years. Not good.

I'm guessing that any drop in sales will be blamed on piracy though, instead of the retarded policies of the gaming industry.

Same for CDs (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38832005)

I haven't bought a new CD (music album) in about 10 years. In that time, however, I have bought over 100 used CDs, averaging about $5 each, from online stores like secondspin.com. I simply unpack them, record each album to my FLAC archive, and put the disc/inserts away for storage. I keep a list of CDs I might want to buy and about twice a year I order a new batch of 10-15 albums. This has proven to be a great way of acquiring new music, and the best part is that I get the actual physical albums. I don't even care if they have a few scratches (most don't), as long as they record perfectly.

In conclusion, I feel damn good about sticking it to a corrupt industry backed by a corrupt government.

Re:You know why they call it Xbox 720 (5, Interesting)

AngryDeuce (2205124) | more than 2 years ago | (#38832025)

Not to mention the other "used market" on The Pirate Bay.

Well, unless they're going to create the first unhackable/unmoddable console in history. In that case, consider the gauntlet thrown down, Microsoft...

You want to sell more new copies of a game? Have a non-insane pricing plan that actually decreases the cost of new games progressively as time goes on. Yes, I know they have the "Greatest Hits" line, but honestly most games they ever add to that are the ones that sold so many copies new that Gamestop won't even buy them due to having a dozen copies already they can't get rid of at $10 a piece.

If these guys started giving the consumer incentive, rather than treating them as adversaries so often by locking them out of their own hardware/software, they would probably sell a lot more, but I doubt they'll ever try, so we'll never know...

Re:You know why they call it Xbox 720 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38832085)

My problem with used games is stores like gamestop, that push used and trade in programs. A lot of the time if Gamestop has a used game in stock for some strange reason they do not have any new copies. They sell new games at a premium price over big box retailers, buy those same games 2-6 weeks later and resale them at a 5-20% discount. When the game is no longer a hot title, they dump all their stock and only have the premium priced "new" title available. But that new title is somehow in a open box that was "only used" for display.

God damn it, if the box is opened, it isn't new!

Re:You know why they call it Xbox 720 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831865)

If you want a flight sim and give money to a company not ran by jackasses, try DCS - A-10C.

Re:You know why they call it Xbox 720 (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831989)

That's just the way big corporations are. It's their nature. Asking them to change is like asking a tiger to not eat a tasty sheep standing next to it.

That said, if you just want a flight simulator and don't want to give your money to jackasses, have you looked into FlightGear [flightgear.org]?

Bought fake Insluin, hope someone has some info on (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831509)

There was a post last month before thanksgiving on the So-Cal Craigslist with an elderly gentleman selling R type insulin for cash or btc. The last part caught me eye and from out talks, its sounded like he just had a recurring RX and was letting the stuff go for cheap aslong as you payed him the cost and a little bit for his time.

Well last night I went to refil my insulin pump, and woke up nearly dead today. It was just water, or saline, or who knows.

Point of this post is to see if anyone else saw that post and kept the info, and to warn off people in the LAX area buying insluin online.

Re:Bought fake Insluin, hope someone has some info (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831653)

Well last night I went to refil my insulin pump, and woke up nearly dead today. It was just water, or saline, or who knows.

It was probably dihydrogen monoxide. That stuff is found in cancer cells, and is the major component of acid rain.

What about Sony et al? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831529)

Why is the headline of this article focussed on Microsoft and the Xbox 720? Surely this is pure conjecture and can just as easily be applied to *any* PC or console game? I haven't RTFA as it'll be a load of made-up crap by the author.

Re:What about Sony et al? (4, Informative)

rtfa-troll (1340807) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831605)

Why is the headline of this article focussed on Microsoft and the Xbox 720? Surely this is pure conjecture and can just as easily be applied to *any* PC or console game? I haven't RTFA as it'll be a load of made-up crap by the author.

Yes; it does seem that reading is a skill beyond many of the people stepping up to defend Microsoft from this accusation. From the fine article:

“I’ve heard from one reliable industry source that Microsoft intends to incorporate some sort of anti-used game system as part of their so-called Xbox 720,” Kotaku’s Steven Totilo wrote on Wednesday morning.

Re:What about Sony et al? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831679)

That means nothing! I can say that I heard from a reliable industry source that rtfa-troll is into smoking dried bananas, and is as a consequence incontinent. If he can't name the source, then it's conjecture. It's that simple!

Re:What about Sony et al? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831767)

Like Woodward and Bernstein were just engaging in conjecture?

Re:What about Sony et al? (4, Insightful)

tripleevenfall (1990004) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831737)

You're beyond the pale of /. orthodoxy.

Microsoft is the enduring force for truth, justice, and the American way - in the console market. Sony is the devilish corporatist plutocrat outfit in this sector that we love to hate. If you want free mod-ups, you have to bash Sony in game threads, MSFT in PC threads :)

Re:What about Sony et al? (2, Informative)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831861)

Microsoft is the enduring force for truth, justice, and the American way - in the console market. Sony is the devilish corporatist plutocrat outfit in this sector that we love to hate.

Might this difference in reputation have something to do with the presence of Xbox Live Indie Games vs. the removal of an advertised feature and lawsuits against those who would restore it?

Re:What about Sony et al? (2)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831911)

Can't I just simplify my life and bash both in both genres?

If it's true I can't buy games, play them, and then sell them as "like new" used condition (thus recouping my money), I might as well just stop playing modern consoles. I'll become a classic gamer (Ataris, Commodores, Segas, NESes, PS2s.)

I hate RIAA. I hate MPAA. I hate limitations upon my freedom.

Re:What about Sony et al? (1)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831863)

This will probably make my cracked (backspace)(backspace)(backspace) used games worth more money on ebay.

Reminds me of my Atari, Commodore, and Amiga days.

Re:What about Sony et al? (5, Interesting)

bonch (38532) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831709)

Why is the headline of this article focussed on Microsoft and the Xbox 720?

Because the article is about Microsoft and the Xbox 720. Because the source of the article is about Microsoft and the Xbox 720.

I haven't RTFA as it'll be a load of made-up crap by the author.

You'd be amazed at what you can learn when you RTFA instead of posting a knee-jerk reaction.

Re:What about Sony et al? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831965)

(Different AC)

I read the article and it is just made-up crap. Sure, it's based on Microsoft tossing the idea around, but it's about as substantial as aerogel. This entire story is a knee-jerk reaction. Pot, meet kettle.

Bull (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831535)

A) There is no way anyone has information on this system that would be negative toward it's image.
B) People won't even bother to buy the new console and stick with the 360
C) What if you change systems, buy a second new system, or these systems fail as often as the 360 (hope not)

Re:Bull (2)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831591)

Yes, this is complete speculation at this point. Forgive me if I give no credence to unnamed sources from kotaku.

Any game company would be stupid to do this. Lots of people finance their next AAA game by selling their previous AAA game. Prevent that, and you'll see fewer sales.

Re:Bull (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831695)

A)Timothy knows!!!
B)Yes they will
C)Your obviously fucked

Re:Bull (1)

xmorg (718633) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831887)

You underestimate the power of marketing
when a new console comes out, millions of dunderheads rush to buy it, and although may complain about this or that they end up living with it, EVEN if its a massive step back in owner privacy/rights/usability. The shiny new graphics are usually enough to get people to buy it, and forsake their old. The commercials, newsmedia, yea, the culture itself will offer you a choice, which will you buy, the wIII, the Ps4 or the 720????

Within weeks of the new system coming out, teens will forsake the 360 like yesterdays news. My little cousins right now would have to be pretty bored to play a ps2. They will just accept that you can no longer bring a game over to your friends house, they will just bring the whole system. Gamestop will find another way of making money...

Re:Bull (3, Interesting)

click2005 (921437) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831889)

A) There is no way anyone has information on this system that would be negative toward it's image.

Yes because underhanded dirty tricks to increase greed for corporations never get leaked. (ACTA)

B) People won't even bother to buy the new console and stick with the 360

Until they start to upgrade their stuff to only support the new console and stop support for the 360. (DX10,XP)

C) What if you change systems, buy a second new system, or these systems fail as often as the 360 (hope not)

Thomas in Bangalore will help you move your account. This is a 360? I'm sorry the new online system isnt supported by the 360.

Slashdot is dead (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831551)

Infiltrated by Google employees and well-wishers, Slashdot consistently offers justifications for every bad behavior and terrible decision coming from Google. Just look at the privacy changes article in which fanboys banded together to make sure Google was perceived as the good guy and that anyone critical of them was modbombed.

Just to recap, Google is a multibillion dollar advertising megacorporation that was caught by the German government sniffing people's wifi data (they "accidentally" did it for three years before admitting it only when authorities threatened an investigation), forced people to use real names on Google+ and admitted it was an identity service and not a social network, stuffed Google+ results into the search engine without any competing social networks even though they have those networks indexed by the search engine (hello, Microsoft tactics), said that the only people who care about privacy "have something to hide," hacked into Mocality to call its customers, removed H.264 support in Chrome out of "openness" only to turn around and ship the closed-source Flash plugin, withheld Android source from the public but shared it with privileged hardware partners so they could have a leg up, abused their Android compatibility program to make things difficult for smartphone makers who chose Bing over Google, and on and on and on.

With all this crap they pull that would get them completely trashed if they were Microsoft or any other company, there's one reason and one reason only that they have been propped up as the good guy on Slashdot all these years--Linux. They use Linux. Slashdot is a Linux advocacy site, and so because Google uses Linux, they are good guys and get a pass for everything. That's all it takes to get Slashdot to love you. Just use Linux.

Hypocrites. When Microsoft used their Windows monopoly revenues to fund development of Internet Explorer and release it for free to try to dominate the web market, everyone here cried "antitrust!" But when Google uses its web search monopoly revenues to fund development of Android and release it for free to try to dominate smartphones, everyone defends it. For anyone who was on Slashdot during those times, to see Google doing all the very same things Microsoft did but get a completely different reaction is surreal.

Slashdot is a bubble. You only get pro-Google, pro-Linux news. Major news occurring elsewhere is often days late, if it gets reported at all. The Google+ search results fiasco is huge all over the tech sites right now, but there's nothing about it here, as if it doesn't even exist as a controversy. And did you know iOS surpassed Android in marketshare by the end of 2011 according to three research firms? With how obsessed Slashdot is over marketshare, and how they constantly trumpeted Android's marketshare all the time as a victory last year, you'd think it would be big news. But, no. This is pro-Google territory, pro-Linux territory. Gotta keep the natives happy for more page views.

This will get modded down because trolls have taken over the moderation system and openly subvert it. That's fine. It just proves my point about how Slashdot reacts to anything outside the partyline. This site's news reporting is old, antiquated, and slow, but the news isn't even why people come here anymore. The part of the community still remaining (after its years-long exodus to Reddit, Hacker News, and other sites, which is why traffic has decreased so dramatically on most Slashdot stories today) only comes here to pat themselves on the back for thinking a certain way. "Yeah, Microsoft is still evil! Yeah, Google is still the good guy! Yeah, Apple is still for chumps!" It's the year 2000 forever on Slashdot.

Every new generation (5, Interesting)

FrYGuY101 (770432) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831557)

"Hey the PS2 is going to prevent you from playing used games!"

Oops, no, you can just fine...

"Hey, the PS3 is going to prevent you from playing used games!"

Nope, wrong again...

"Hey, the next Xbox is going to prevent you from playing used games!"

At this point, I'm convinced it's just a way for the hardware people to wrangle a little bit extra developer support before launch, where inevitably they aren't stupid enough to do something that would alienate their core market...

iOS now has more marketshare than Android (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831571)

It's official: iOS now has more marketshare than Android. Reuters reports that Apple completely erased Android's marketshare lead [reuters.com], confirming earlier reports by both Nielsen [nielsen.com] and NPD [gigaom.com]. Over 150 Android smartphones couldn't outcompete the iPhone 4S. With 37 million iPhones sold last quarter, Apple is the largest smartphone marker, and their profits exceed Google’s entire revenue, $13 billion to $10.6 billion. Finally, with 15 million iPads sold last quarter, the tablet market is now larger than the entire desktop PC market.

Remember that Slashdot triumphantly posted in January 2011 about Android surpassing iOS in marketshare [slashdot.org]. A year later when the opposite happens? Not a peep. Talk about bias.

Re:iOS now has more marketshare than Android (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831833)

FWIW, I submitted numerous articles about this and none were given a nod.

Highlights a philosophical problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831585)

Can you ever really own software? It seems natural to think of it as a product that can be bought and sold... but in the modern era of licenses and DRM, of artificial scarcity, we are slowly coming to realize that we are paying money for nothing. The fact that this stuff can be copied on a whim jars with traditional notions of physical property.

That's Alright (1)

Sardak (773761) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831587)

Oh, that's alright. I'll just have to cut back on my video game purchases so that I don't end up with a whole bunch of crappy games that I can't resell.

Think about your breathing (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831595)

Hello you are reading the THINK ABOUT YOUR BREATHING TROLL!
Yes that's right, THINK ABOUT YOUR BREATHING. Why you might ask? Well it's simple!
Your brain usually takes care of breathing FOR you, but whenever you remember this, YOU MUST MANUALLY BREATH! If you don't you will DIE.
There are also MANY variations of this. For example, think about:
1. BLINKING!
1. SWALLOWING SALIVA!
1. HOW YOUR FEET FEEL IN YOUR SOCKS!
1. THINK ABOUT YOUR BREATHING AGAIN!
In conclusion, the THINK ABOUT YOUR BREATHING troll is simply unbeatable. These 4 words can be thrown randomly into article text trolls, into sigs, into anything, and once seen, WILL FORCE THE VICTIM TO TAKE CARE OF HIS BREATHING MANUALLY! This goes far beyond the simple annoying or insulting trolls of yesteryear.
In fact, by EVEN RESPONDING to this troll, you are proving that IT HAS CLAIMED ANOTHER VICTIM -- YOU!

Good new for Steam (1)

andy9o (1235174) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831597)

This could be a huge boon for the PC Game industry. And no, I'm not talking about Piracy. But, without used games to bring the cost down, gamers like myself will shift more of their funds to heavily discounted digital download titles on the PC, which is something I've yet to see matched on the console side.

Steam ain't any better (2)

Shivetya (243324) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831641)

they are just like the Apple App store... the prices are lower but you are forever stuck with the purchase, you cannot sell it.

Heck I can't even sell the apps I bought with my iPad should I choose to never have an Apple product again, the apps don't go with with iPad. When I sold my iMac recently I had to revert it to Snow Leopard because when I asked Apple, Lion belonged to my account, not that machine I bought it for (the new machine came with Lion)

So how low must the prices be before its acceptable to give up the option of resale?

Re:Steam ain't any better (1)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831967)

>>>just like the Apple App store

Same with e-books (those things filled with text; no video or sound). You pay full price and can't ever sell them, unlike the old physical item.

It's why I never bought a Kindle until they gave me an offer I couldn't refuse (Fantasy & Science Magazine for $10/year). Still haven't bought any books; they are overpriced.

How heavily are PC games discounted? (2)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831899)

heavily discounted digital download titles on the PC, which is something I've yet to see matched on the console side.

Are PC games typically discounted such that someone can buy four copies of the PC game for the price of one copy of a console game? Because that's what it would take to make up for the difference in the multiplayer paradigm between the two markets.

Portman (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831607)

"Trollin', Trollin', Trollin',
perl scripts a' pollin',
keep on slashdot trollin',
Portman!
Mae Ling Mak and First Post,
So I can now boast,
Wishin' my gal was petrified.
All the things I'm missin',
My Karma, baths, and wimmin,
I don't care, or else I'd cry!

CHORUS
Click 'em on, post 'em up
Post 'em up, click 'em on
Click 'em on, post 'em up
Portman!
Click 'em on, post 'em up
Post 'em up, click 'em on
Click 'em on, post 'em up
Portman!

Keep movin', movin', movin',
Though they're disapprovin',
Keep them fingers movin,
Portman!
Don't try to understand 'em,
Just post and reprimand 'em,
Soon we'll be trollin' far and wide!
My porn's stimulatin'
My right hand will be achin'
I don't care or else I'd cry!

Portman!
Portman!

not too good for archiving (5, Interesting)

Trepidity (597) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831615)

After some years of neglect, since the late 1990s some libraries, universities, and other cultural organizations have realized that videogames are an important cultural artifact, so are worth preserving just like films and other bits of culture are. There are now things like this at Stanford [stanford.edu], and quite a few others. These are usually put together by buying used arcade cabinets, cartridges, CDs, etc., from anything from flea markets to eBay (in addition to donations from individuals and collectors).

Videogame makers seem to be doing whatever they possibly can to make this as difficult as possible, especially for organizations like libraries that need to follow the law. It seems like if videogames are actually documented/preserved as interesting cultural artifacts, it's going to be by less-official organizations that crack them.

Kill Used Games? Say Hello to Piracy (5, Insightful)

decipher_saint (72686) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831619)

If the secondary market becomes impossible, piracy will spring up to take its place, if anything else to increase availability of hard to find titles.

Re:Kill Used Games? Say Hello to Piracy (5, Insightful)

The MAZZTer (911996) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831793)

I believe at least one publisher has stated used games are a BIGGER problem for them than piracy. They receive no money for either one, but used games are legal and you can just walk into a store and buy one so it's more accessible for more people. It would not surprise me if devs are trying to kill them, though obviously they have to be careful or else lawsuits will likely be thrown their way (perhaps legitimately so, I should be able to resell my own property that I don't use anymore).

Re:Kill Used Games? Say Hello to Piracy (1)

alen (225700) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831807)

WTF is hard to find titles in 2012? you can find any game anywhere in a B&M or online anytime. and this will have downloadable games so you can just pre-order and it will download a few weeks before release and activate on release day like steam

Any game? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831921)

you can find any game anywhere in a B&M or online anytime.

Where can I find a lawfully made copy of Earthbound? Nintendo refuses to release it on Virtual Console. Or are you referring only to current-generation games?

Re:Any game? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831953)

Earthbound is not hard to find, it's just very popular.

Re:Kill Used Games? Say Hello to Piracy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38832017)

Gamers are still convinced that the Hottest New Game! is going to be hard to come by. They're convinced they need to preorder these games so that they can get their copy, while the clerks laugh at them, knowing they'll have whole cases of games left after the fulfilling the preorders and selling the everyone else who walks through the door on release day.

Re:Kill Used Games? Say Hello to Piracy (1)

ticker47 (954580) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831975)

How would piracy work for XBOX games? Computers and their OS's are fairly malleable, you can either modify the system to ignore bad keys or modify the game to not need a key. But with XBOX being a fairly closed computer system, how would one bypass something like a CD Key that requires online validation (that would probably them by tied to your account),especially when you have no access to the game files? I'm sure it's possible, but what would be required to bypass such a system and could the average person who just wanted to play their friends game be able to do it?

Alternatively this could just lead to a more Steam like system and games would be attached to your account and allow you to download on any device and play as long as you were logged in. I wouldn't mind that as long as they had sales on games like steam does and an offline mode.

no used games is less new games sold (4, Insightful)

alen (225700) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831625)

2010 bought x-box
bought Black Ops
played it, sold it and bought GoW new double pack
played it sold it and bought new copies of ME1 and ME2

if i have to pay $60 for games, and no resale then i'll buy a few games like ME or Dragon Age where you can replay with different characters to get some value

or just keep playing x-box 360 games. lots of GOTY and other super editions with DLC and add ones out there for CHEAP.

The disks will be free soon. (1)

bsdnazz (114881) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831627)

You'll need to buy a license key on line.

This disk will just be a distribution for large files (not every one has high speed broad band yet) and advertising medium.

In related news (5, Insightful)

Lectoid (891115) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831635)

In related news, Gamers might reject the Xbox 720

Re:In related news (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831943)

What will they play instead once Microsoft shuts off Xbox Live access for Xbox 360 games, just as it has done for original Xbox games?

BSD is dying (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831647)

It is now official. Netcraft has confirmed: *BSD is dying

One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

You don't need to be the Amazing Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.

Consumers... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831651)

might reject Xbox 720.

This idea they have is worthless (5, Insightful)

Howitzer86 (964585) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831669)

So in the future, lets say... 18 years from now, you won't be able to legally play that game that came out in 2013 because there are no more keys left and the servers are down. You might still have the console, and the disk, and perhaps you paid money for it, but with that game, with that anti-used-game protection, it's useless. And of course, going around the copy protection would be the only way to play it again, which is illegal.

Where is in modern times, you can play an 18 year old game without breaking any laws. Buy a Sega Genesis or a Saturn, buy the game, and so long as it isn't scratched up you can have a nostalgiagasm.

It stinks, won't stop anybody, and make criminals out of everybody, eventually. This idea is worthless.

Re:This idea they have is worthless (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831811)

You don't think that is exactly what they want?

Re:This idea they have is worthless (2)

St.Creed (853824) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831917)

No. I think they just don't give a rat's ass about it. It's a side effect that doesn't matter to them.

Where there is a will. There is a way! (2)

Lashat (1041424) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831843)

Somewhat along the same lines of an earlier post claiming that piracy will solve this issue.

I agree that if someone wants to play the game in 18 years. They will play the game. Emulators rule. I love that MAME exists and give me strolls down memory lane without sucking quarters out of my pocket in that stuffy, over-heated, converted room behind the Mini-Golf rental shack.
http://mamedev.org/legal.html [mamedev.org]

Read their "Legal" section if you think that "piracy" is the only solution.

Re:This idea they have is worthless (3, Insightful)

Tsingi (870990) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831879)

It stinks, won't stop anybody, and make criminals out of everybody, eventually. This idea is worthless.

We already have a situation where everyone is a criminal. The result of that is people have less respect for the law. And rightly so, if it is illegal for people to do the things that people do every day, then the law no longer serves society.
We know this to be true. The law serves those who own and control the government. The law serves 'artificial' persons. Real persons, can rot in jail.

Re:This idea they have is worthless (2)

Darinbob (1142669) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831933)

The idea has been around for awhile. This is the one and only goal of DRM for games. It is not there to prevent piracy, it is there to stop you selling your used games or even giving them away to friends or family. This has even been stated by some game producers. Everyone knows pirates will just get cracks to get the game anyway instead the legal owners of the games are prevented from using their legal rights to do what they want with the game.

This is the Steam model. Steam has a horde of dutiful fans who back them up; it's convenient for those who have super fast internet so they will defend the entire model of Steam just to keep that convenience. Some have even defended the DRM as only hurting places like GameStop or other sleazy resellers. But the owner's rights are being restricted and that should never be accepted just because of convenience. There are even worse places than Steam too with much more restrictive DRM (the Steam fans sometimes defend them as "it could be worse").

So this move is just taking the PC model and moving it to consoles. Trouble is no one is fighting against it. If book publishers had the technology to this 50 years ago so that no books would ever be in libraries or you could not donate your dog-eared classics to the local schools, the public would have been up in arms. But today the game players just roll over and take it.

Arcade suicide batteries (2)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831983)

You appear to have never heard of a suicide battery [arcadecollecting.com]. As I understand it, it's fairly common for some kinds of arcade games to lose their programming after several years because essential decryption keys are stored in battery-backed SRAM.

Re:This idea they have is worthless (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38832033)

And why do you think this is a problem for the publishers?

They don't WANT you playing the same games from ten years ago, or even last year's.

Instead, they want you to buy THIS year's game. And next year's, and the year after that.

Legacy titles are a drain on their bottom line. After all, they only get paid the one time, no matter how often you play it. It is therefore to their advantage to make it as difficult to play again in the future -either through authentication servers that can be shut down, DRM that causes compatibility issues with future operating systems, or only running on a specific hardware platform that is difficult or illegal to emulate.

Yes its everyone elses fault (1)

Osgeld (1900440) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831675)

that you the publishers spent millions of dollars on absolute garbage like mindjack and no one wants to buy it?

What SHOULD be dying is all the garbageware game publishers!

Welcome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831683)

FIRST I would like to welcome our new POST used game overlords.

One more turn of the screw (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831729)

We are be ratcheted.

and I Might Reject the Xbox 720 (3, Informative)

kni52 (598886) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831747)

Actually i will if this is the way it will behave. The same goes for any console that does this kind of thing. I buy most of my games used, and keep my gaming systems for as long as they last. I stay away from any game that links to online services or verification in order to function properly. If i want a time-limited gaming experience, I'll visit one of the few arcades that are left (which I do whenever I'm near one).

Not 100% the best way to go (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831757)

Limiting features based on not having a key is a better idea.

Such as limiting a certain number of weapons to be held, or certain number of AI bots in a game, or even limiting the game up to a certain point, removing side-quests, etc.
It would give more reason for people to want to buy the game first, or get a new key.

Getting rid of brick and mortar stores is a terrible thing for them and the industry, as is going entirely digital.
A lot of companies make a large chunk of money on limited editions and the like, such as coming with original artwork (or rather, scanned original artwork), some models, whatever.
Not only that, getting rid of them would be getting rid of a large chunk of your market because NO sane person is going to sit and download their double-digit gigabyte games.
What with bandwidth caps and slow speeds, and of course the triple digit numbers of people ALL DOING IT AT ONCE, yeah, come back in a couple decades when the backbones of most countries aren't made out of crap.
Better idea, CDN in each country. Each store signs up for a licence to have a hub installed in their store. This then downloads the games to them on release. People can come in with some memory device (SSD, HDD, flash, whatever), pop the game on, it gets copied, take it home, copy to console, done.
If they have no device, they rent a device from the store to take it home. (this could be an avenue for the stores to make a bit of money for those who have no memory storage)
You could also allow sync to be done via this method. They hop on over to the store, they upload their achievements and the like to the hub. It all gets uploaded at off-peak times at once.
Obviously there is a lot to workout with such a system, but it is better than telling your fans with no internet to beat it.
You now have the best of both worlds, people who can internet and people who don't have decent internet or none at all.

The fact that Steam, PSN, XBL all suffer bad times even with upper-average traffic, what makes you think it'd hold up against everyone ever on those services using it all at once?
They'd literally DDoS the poor servers, which I can't count how many times has happened when, say, a new huge game has came out on Steam. Switching locations like a madman to find something that will at least work, even if slow as hell.
They'd have to have an insane number of load-balancing at the front of the network to prevent it dying so hard.

note: I always buy brand new wherever I can.

not the answer but the problem is still there (2)

MattDaye (2559921) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831779)

when at least half of your target audience will wait a few weeks/months to buy your game used from a store like Gamestop ruining your companies projected sales/income and it makes it difficult for you to get funding for games, its a problem. why bother making anything other than a game hoping to cash in on the COD market for sure income, then to make a niche new original game that wont have as many sales and more than half are still lost to store resellers. that said, when games have no replay value and after your 10-20 hours of gameplay its just a 50-70 dollar paper weight on your shelf you wonder why you bothered to buy it.

What about game rentals? (5, Interesting)

lazycam (1007621) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831781)

I know it's a small part of their business, but how will this decision affect a rental company like RedBox. The other day I noticed they rented out titles like Skyrim and Call of Duty. Moreover, what about companies like Gamefly, whose entire business model is based on the ability to share titles? Along with regular customers, I imagine these companies will not go down without a fight.

Games for Players (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831791)

I believe that Valve have the right idea in that when someone buys the game, it is theirs. It doesn't belong to a specific console or computer but instead is allocated to them as a person so they can install it where they like but only they can feasibly play it (of course other people can use the account but only one computer can be logged in at a time.) It still seems by far the most superior system, to my mind.

Households with multiple gamers (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#38832003)

of course other people can use the account but only one computer can be logged in at a time

Which hurts households with multiple gamers. On consoles, you don't need to buy four copies of (say) Super Smash Bros. Brawl to play with four players.

The is a speculative non-story (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831797)

Slashdot = stagnant

Not for me ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831803)

If it is, i'm not buying this !

I don't really care about used game since i rarely buy one but if the Xbox broke down, that means that all your game become useless if it won't work on a new console.

Killing Used Games Kill Sales of New Games (5, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831823)

KIlling the used game market is going to backfire because the sale of used games subsidizes the purchase of new games. A lot of people make the calculation that they can buy a ~$50 game, play it until they are tired of it and then sell it for ~$20 - making the effective price only $30.

If the publishers make it impossible to resell that game, that amounts to nearly a doubling of the price for a new game and thus a lot less people will be able to afford it. These game publishers should be care what they wish for.

Re:Killing Used Games Kill Sales of New Games (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38832011)

Not really, what if they just sell the new games for $30? Without used games, they should sell more and might actually make more money. I realize there is a snowball's chance in hell that this actually happens, but if they reduce utility and price, I am fine with it. They don't care much about used games passed between people, they only care that Gamestop makes 90% of its money on marking up Used Games and that is the money they are after.

Re:Killing Used Games Kill Sales of New Games (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38832055)

No one cares. Stop your crying.

IGN and SOPA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831841)

Sorry to be off-topic, but I hope my fellow slashdotters avoid the IGN link as IGN's parent company, News Corporation, is a proponent of SOPA (I know it's been tabled, but the company has already put in their support for the legislation, which is bad enough in my opinion).

So it's like steam and the games are tied to you? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831855)

So it's like steam and the games are tied to you?

As long as it let's you go over to other peoples Xbox and play as guest like you can with steam then it may be ok.

Death of xbox 720 inevitable (1)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831909)

There are scores of people who will not buy a new game unless they can resell it. There are also scores of people who will only buy used games. Both of these groups will not buy a new gaming console if they can not take part in the used game market.

Is this really happening? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831923)

SOPA, PIPA(which have only been delayed to calm the media), ACTA and now this. The new decade doesn't seem like it will be a good one for humanity at all. I wonder what's next.

This is not a bad thing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38831925)

It just solidifies the future of PC gaming.

Extend this policy to players as well . . . (1)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831939)

"This is NOT a new player. In order to play this game, please replace the current player with a new one, and start again."

"This system does NOT accept used players."

this is what you get with console vendor lock-in (2)

Dan667 (564390) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831945)

why people continue to complain when they know that the console maker is going to do stuff like this makes no sense. You are accepting you don't even own your console when you buy it.

ignore the market eh? (1)

DaveGod (703167) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831949)

I hope they realise the number of gamers for whom selling used finances their buying new. Just like the car market, except there manufacturers absolutely covet the used car market. Many of the used buyers are kids who don't have the money to buy new games except at birthdays etc., or casual gamers who would never pay new prices. I note that the article refers to PC games generally being one-time use, I respond noting PC game pricing for brand-new games is almost always cheaper than used console games, quite often substantially cheaper. Even then, "one time use" keys used to be only relevant to multiplayer, single worked fine. Even now DRM generally allows for multiple machine installs. Only online downloads are locked to one account.

Similar happens with the consoles themselves too. Almost every time I upgraded a console generation I sold my old one + games to finance the new. MS/Sony/Ninty get an early adopter whilst also selling games to someone on the older gen.

The problem with the used market is not the used market, it is the margins taken by the retailers. If you sell a game for $10 and store then sells it for $30, they extract $20 from the used-game economy.

Incorporate (5, Interesting)

PPH (736903) | more than 2 years ago | (#38831955)

Create a corporation*, purchase the XBox and games through the corporation. When you want to sell, you transfer the equity in the corporation to the new owner. The h/w and s/w never change hands.

Watch Microsoft fight a couple of hundred years of corporate law. Sit back. Laugh.

*Yeah, I know. This will be prohibitively expensive for something like a couple of games.

Cause & Effect (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38832015)

I might reject the Xbox 720.

Next, ban old games (4, Insightful)

residieu (577863) | more than 2 years ago | (#38832067)

Next up. Madden 2014 will stop working when Madden 2015 is released. People who keep playing old games are picking the pockets of the developers. They're still playing old games when they could be buying the new versions and playing those.
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