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New Privacy Laws Could Boost EU Cloud Industry

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the markets-also-route-around-censorship dept.

Cloud 119

sweetpea86 writes "Cloud providers based in the European market could turn the fear, uncertainty and doubt around data protection and the U.S. Patriot Act to their advantage, according to Andy Burton, chairman of the Cloud Industry Forum. The only way that European companies can absolutely guarantee that their data doesn't end up in the hands of U.S. authorities is by choosing a provider that not only has a data centre within their jurisdiction, but is also owned by an organisation based in that jurisdiction."

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Agreement (-1, Offtopic)

johnynd77 (2531312) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849033)

Absolutely agree, when we need some privacy data and profitable protection should take the best provider. http://fashionweek-news.blogspot.com/ [blogspot.com]

Re:Agreement (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849107)

Parent's Link is a virus. Do not click it.

But which places are... (2)

TheFoxMan88 (2528592) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849045)

considered a safe harbour from the US Patriot Act?

Re:But which places are... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849065)

At least not the US.

Re:But which places are... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849067)

It's true that there's been a lot of FUD about the Patriot Act.
FTFA:

“This is unlikely to be an issue in reality unless you’re involved in anything dodgy.

If your company's not a front for terrorism, the Patriot Act shouldn't matter to it.

Re:But which places are... (4, Insightful)

rmstar (114746) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849103)

"This is unlikely to be an issue in reality unless youâ(TM)re involved in anything dodgy."

If your company's not a front for terrorism, the Patriot Act shouldn't matter to it.

It must be a nice place in your brain, with little pony and the teletubbies. I mean, do you really believe that?

The Patriot Act has a beautiful record of being abused for all sorts of purposes.

My Little Pony (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849233)

My Little Pony is actually a near-future post apocalyptic work, where the ponies have built their civilization on the ash and bones of the extinct human race.
They may look cute, but they have mobile armour and howitzers. It's pretty hard-core stuff.

Re:My Little Pony (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849471)

Post-apocalyptic? Stop reading Fallout: Equestria already.

Re:But which places are... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38850845)

Oh really? I'm sure we'd all like to hear about, please provide a link or stop your FUD.

Re:But which places are... (2)

fuzzytv (2108482) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849125)

And lot of that FUD is true. There are many reports on the net, describing how the Patriot Act is misused even in cases that are not related to terorism. It's much easier that regular subpoenas etc. so they misuse it.

Re:But which places are... (1)

cavreader (1903280) | more than 2 years ago | (#38851505)

Have any examples to back up your claim or do you determine fact from fiction by counting the number of websites you find that agree with your predetermined viewpoint? It is becoming more difficult by the day to find any facts on the great information super highway. Biased blogs, discussion sites, editorials, and opinions can be found to "prove" anything. The vast majority of discussion sites are nothing but echo chambers where people can congratulate one another on how perceptive and forward thinking they are. If you read something you don't agree with it is easy to locate sources that do support your arguments. In the end the truth disappears. I used to think religious manipulation would provide the emotional framework to set off WW3 but now I think the Internet and the ease of disseminating information used to manipulate the masses will be more efficient.

Re:But which places are... (3, Insightful)

CAPSLOCK2000 (27149) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849149)

Unless they are old and sick, sheep shouldn't worry about getting eaten by wolves.

Unfortunately the definition of 'terrorism' has been stretched in recent years. Once you are accused it's nearly impossible to clear your name.

Re:But which places are... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849245)

If your company's not a front for terrorism, the Patriot Act shouldn't matter to it.

Well, it shouldn't matter, but it does.
Certain US three letter organisations have a history of meddling. If you work at a company in the EU and have a competitor in the US then it pretty much means that you shouldn't provide any usable information to any US company. (Same goes for China btw.)

Re:But which places are... (3, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849251)

And if you're not a crook, why would you wanna hide anything?

Face it, the terrorists won. What did they hate us for? Our liberty and freedom? Ok, we caved in and eliminated both.

Re:But which places are... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849341)

> What did they hate us for? Our liberty and freedom?

I suspect they hate you for messing with their countries over and over again. They probably don't give a fuck about your 'liberty and freedom'.

Re:But which places are... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849721)

Oh yes they do care! Until Allah rules all, it is the holy mission (Jihad) of Muslims (at least the Wahhabist variety) to bring all to believe ... or die if refusing. Read their diatribes. BTW, they will kill any other Muslims who do not go along with The Crusade (Muslim variety - the Christian Crusades, horribly flawed as they were, were a response to medieval Muslim terrorism).

Re:But which places are... (4, Insightful)

ceoyoyo (59147) | more than 2 years ago | (#38850663)

You misspelled "Jesus" and "Christians." Oh, you weren't talking about the last thousand years of Christianity (up until maybe 150 years ago). My mistake.

Re:But which places are... (2, Insightful)

Slashdot Assistant (2336034) | more than 2 years ago | (#38850755)

Sure, the Islamists are perfectly happy to let us enjoy our lives, so long as we leave them alone. You're somewhat underestimating the Muslim capacity for butthurt and completely unjustified notions of superiority. The only way that Islamists will be content is when we either adopt Islam or agree to live under its rule. Even then, which version of Islam? Muslims have a rich tradition of killing Muslims who belong to different sects.

The Danes have a long history of charity and are hardly known for militarily throwing their weight around in the middle east, yet a few simple cartoons was enough to cause the Muslim world to erupt in to riots and the issuing of death threats. We can no more find accommodation with Islamists than we would be able to with 14th century Christians. Muslims will demand too much, and offer little in return. These are the people who happily see anti-semitic cartoons in their newspapers, yet will demand death for someone who'd poke fun at a dead schizophrenic with a hard-on for little girls. How about the "God bless Hitler" sign, and similar, that were being held by angry Muslims? Religion of peace, my arse.

There is no compromising with this mentality. We cannot reason with it, and we certainly cannot make it happy enough to leave us alone. Either we face it down, and preserver or values, or we allow these repressed bigots to impose theirs on us.

Re:But which places are... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38851291)

I suggest you try replacing "Muslims" with "Christians" in your first paragraph.

Works perfectly, doesn't it?

You are confusing the extremist, fundamentalist mulsim with the mulsim-in-the-street.

Some of my best friends are Christians; but then they are not Pat Robertson, or Jimmy Swaggart, or Michelle Bachman.

And remind me once again what Ann Coulter said after 9/11...

Re:But which places are... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38851477)

You asked:

I suggest you try replacing "Muslims" with "Christians" in your first paragraph.

which he already did:

We can no more find accommodation with Islamists than we would be able to with 14th century Christians.

and btw, for me being non-american (and also non-christian, but thats beyond point): who the hell is this Ann Coulter and Robertsonn and Swaggart and Bachman and did they rule (as in write constitution) for every christian country?

Re:But which places are... (1)

ediron2 (246908) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849879)

Liberty and freedom.... uh, Redundant much?

Re:But which places are... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38850035)

The GP has the liberty to invoke the artistic license on that tautology. His freedom also enables him to ignore you.

Re:But which places are... (2)

thsths (31372) | more than 2 years ago | (#38851397)

> And if you're not a crook, why would you wanna hide anything?

- because you have business secrets
- because you want to stay ahead of US competition
- because you work with confidential data
- because you do something that is perfectly legal, but maybe not appreciated by the US government
- because you not everybody respects the law

I guess your house has no doors, you never wear cloth, and your walls are made from glass? And you tell everybody your password?

Re:But which places are... (1)

jamesh (87723) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849323)

“This is unlikely to be an issue in reality unless you’re involved in anything dodgy.

If your company's not a front for terrorism, the Patriot Act shouldn't matter to it.

That's fine for today, but what about tomorrow when FOSS is considered terrorism??

Re:But which places are... (1)

ceoyoyo (59147) | more than 2 years ago | (#38850643)

I'm not involved in terrorism. I do have a common name that I apparently share with someone who's a spectacular international badass. US customs officers swear when they scan my passport. So tell me again how the PATRIOT act and the other stuff that's going on in the US shouldn't matter to anyone not involved with terrorism?

China, Russia, Venezuela ... (1)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849205)

Not all nations in this world kow tow to the mighty Uncle Sam, you know?

Re:China, Russia, Venezuela ... (4, Insightful)

Registered Coward v2 (447531) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849507)

Not all nations in this world kow tow to the mighty Uncle Sam, you know?

True, but the notion there is anyplace that can fully guarantee data does not end up in the hands of the US (or any other country, for that manner) is naive. Each of these countries ha their own self interest at heart, and if the US (or some other country) wants their help doing something they just need to come up with a compelling reason for them to help. Governments also change, as do a nations goals and interests.

The bottom line is, once you cede control of your data to third party, you lose the ability to ensure it will never get passed on to someone's. Or,a s the saying goes, two people can keep a secret only if one of them is dead.

Re:China, Russia, Venezuela ... (1)

Fnord666 (889225) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849829)

they just need to come up with a compelling reason for them to help.

Because blackmail is such an ugly word.

Re:China, Russia, Venezuela ... (1)

Registered Coward v2 (447531) | more than 2 years ago | (#38850807)

they just need to come up with a compelling reason for them to help.

Because blackmail is such an ugly word.

It doesn't have to be blackmail - in fact blackmail is probably less effective than other means. What you want to do is show them how doing what you want benefits them as well. No need to threaten anything. Make a deal - what kind of a deal? - a deal deal. For example, while the data in question may involve something that was done against country A and did not involve or threaten country B where the data resides - how doe sB know that the person will not do the same thing to them in the future? It may be in their best interest to take action now to avoid having a problem in the future, not with A but the target of A.

Re:China, Russia, Venezuela ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38851871)

Not all nations in this world kow tow to the mighty Uncle Sam, you know?

True, but the notion there is anyplace that can fully guarantee data does not end up in the hands of the US (or any other country, for that manner) is naive..

Sure. The US has ways of getting what they really want. So no such guarantee. Being firmly out of reach of the US patriot act or other US laws isn't that hard though. The US have "other methods", but will probably only use those in cases that really matter.

Re:But which places are... (3, Insightful)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849305)

Stay away from the UK, Canada, Australia ect. via http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK [wikipedia.org] –USA_Security_Agreement
Stay away from anywhere the UK/US has had bases "British Bases in Cyprus and Signals Intelligence" e.g. http://cryptome.org/2012/01/0060.pdf [cryptome.org]
Stay away from anywhere that has cheap telco peering loops to the USA thats going to save you lots .....
Your down to failed states, theocracies, Kingdoms, disputed zones with expensive telcos, changing local laws, taxes, gifts and investors fine print.
If you upset the USA, most of the EU has friends willing to help with some form of rendition.
Enjoy classified charges, no lawyer to evaluate or challenge the evidence.

Re:But which places are... (1)

Therefore I am (1284262) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849511)

I think we should upset the u.s.a. If the whole world stopped using capital letters when referring to the u.s.a. - the u.s. - uncle sam etcetera, then the fools who are allowing the united states to bob and curtsy and pass legislation to the entertainment industry and other powerful lobbies may just get the idea that the rest of the world is kicking back.

My thoughts exactly (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849053)

My thoughts exactly. Now who can help me start up such a business. I am proficient on the technical side but my commercial talents are none existent.

and... (1)

harvey the nerd (582806) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849059)

...not a lapdog, bosom buddy US ally or wannabe government.

Data has homeland (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849101)

For example one european university did not adopt Google for student email as G could not guarantee that the data won't leave EU.

Now we have Exchange :-( but recently got Dovecot imap proxy front of it so I can use standards compliant software.

Ha! (5, Insightful)

guises (2423402) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849121)

See? See?!? Responsible, consumer-friendly legislation doesn't have to be anti-business.

We've got this thing in my country with the one political party saying that they're pro-consumer and trying to push laws that limit corporate abuses, and the other party saying that they're pro-business and trying to squash anything that would reduce corporate size and influence with the claim that it's necessary for jobs, the economy, etc. Well bullshit. Some consumer-friendly legislation may be anti-established business, but that's not a negative, just thinning the herd. Get rid of the sick and bring on the new.

Our MS vs Google fight (4, Interesting)

CAPSLOCK2000 (27149) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849131)

My employer (a university) decided to outsource the e-mail-facilities for students. Microsoft and Google both made compelling offers, however Google could not promise that our data would never leave Europe. Microsoft did make that promise and was awarded the contract because of it.
A few months later MS had to confess that they couldn't keep that promiss. As the migration was not going smooth at all we are now back talking with Google.

Re:Our MS vs Google fight (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849137)

neomailbox

Re:Our MS vs Google fight (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849291)

Their servers seem to be in St. Louis... Pretty sure that's Patriot Act territory.

Re:Our MS vs Google fight (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849207)

Your employer trusted Microsoft on this?
Bruhaha!

Re:Our MS vs Google fight (1)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849237)

Your employer trusted Microsoft on this?
Bruhaha!

Unfortunately, stupidity is still the "2nd most abundant element in the Universe"

Re:Our MS vs Google fight (1)

UBfusion (1303959) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849365)

If I were in your shoes, I'd recommend your uni legal department to advise explicitly all the teaching and research stuff to avoid sending mail containing sensitive materials unencrypted. Current industrial/research espionage is indistinguishable from magic.

Re:Our MS vs Google fight (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849373)

Our campus consolidated all campus email under a Microsoft product. They say it's to save money, because there were multiple mail servers across campus. (tinfoil) it's also convenient to monitor any "unpatriotic sentiments" among particularly students.(/tinfoil)

Re:Our MS vs Google fight (4, Insightful)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 2 years ago | (#38850221)

let me get this straight: a university, a WEALTH of intelligent and skilled people (many with lots of time on their hands) outsources an extremely easy to manage service and also one that has high risk of being abused by the outsourced company?

you value your data that little? you value privacy that little? you value your own people that little?

what place is that? I'd like to know so I can tell people NOT TO GO THERE.

lazy assholes. sheesh! pisses me off. wealth of brainpower but too fucking lazy to install and manage sendmail, qmail, or whatever.

Re:Our MS vs Google fight (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38850735)

an extremely easy to manage service

Wow. Try running a system for 65,000 people and come back and tell us how it goes. The local university outsourced email to Gmail and everyone is much happier.

Re:Our MS vs Google fight (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 2 years ago | (#38850991)

that is not a large number.

and size (of that scale) does not matter on modern mail systems. out of the box, qmail and most of the others can handle that.

the transport is not the issue; the user interface is (was). and now, even that is handled by web front-ends.

its mostly an issue of how much you want to spend on your hardware. the software is not trivial but it not very hard, either.

are we, collectively, just afraid of doing a little work on our own?

I think, sadly, its the case.

Re:Our MS vs Google fight (1)

CAPSLOCK2000 (27149) | more than 2 years ago | (#38851085)

You got it wrong, it's not a matter of hardware. Our three year old mailservers handle the load without every blinking. They could probably handle ten times more without any noticable load.

No matter what user-interface you use, people still need support. Both software and users are getting better but we are still far away from an email-system that does not need support.The university is full of young and bright people but even that group needs a lot of support. The older part of our population would be lost without support. Moving only a small fraction of those calls to an external party saves a ton of time that can be spent on more important issues.

Re:Our MS vs Google fight (1)

M. Baranczak (726671) | more than 2 years ago | (#38850803)

They also have plenty of people who are capable of mowing the lawns, but they probably outsource that job, too. It makes perfect sense to me.

What I don't get, though: why are MS and Google the only companies that they considered? Is there really nobody else who can provide email for a large organization?

Re:Our MS vs Google fight (1)

CAPSLOCK2000 (27149) | more than 2 years ago | (#38851193)

No other company responded that could meet all our requirements.

Re:Our MS vs Google fight (1)

AliasMarlowe (1042386) | more than 2 years ago | (#38851385)

No other company responded that could meet all our requirements.

It sounds like those respondents did not meet your requirements either. As you said, Google could not "promise that our data would never leave Europe", and Microsoft first said they could, then recanted after they got the order.

Re:Our MS vs Google fight (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | more than 2 years ago | (#38850841)

Email isn't that simple for large organisations that need to manage thousands of users who need remote access. Bandwidth, server capacity and available mean it makes sense to locate the servers at a datacentre, and you will probably end up running a third party web app anyway so it isn't much of a stretch just to outsource the whole project.

Re:Our MS vs Google fight (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 2 years ago | (#38850973)

sure it is.

30 years ago it was hard.

today its bog simple.

web-based email is just a choice of what pkgs you run. its been rehashed so many times, you can pick and choose what pkg set you use. or customize your own.

you really want me to believe that a think-organization (school of higher education!) HAS TO outsource computer system management?

no, they are lazy fucks. there is no rational reason to outsource an intellectual pursuit AT A COLLEGE.

the fact that its is an 'Im ok with that!' kind of thing for so many people here, that really scares me.

I'd expect burger king to outsource their mail. I'd expect speedy muffler to outsource it. I WOULD NOT EXPECT A UNIVERSITY to cop-out like that, though.

Re:Our MS vs Google fight (1)

CAPSLOCK2000 (27149) | more than 2 years ago | (#38850867)

It's not my preferred solution either, but it's not as bad as it sounds.
Not everything will be out-sourced, we continue to manage most of the mail ourselves. We decide how the mail is routed and we manage authentication (google/microsoft never sees our passwords). Every employee has at least one local mailbox.

The expensive part of running an e-mail service is not the backend, it's dealing with user-support. Why waste those intelligent and skilled people on something as simple as webmail? Each year we give out thousands of mailboxes to students that are only used to receive schedule updates and stuff like them. There's not much of a privacy issue their. Anyone has the possibility of getting a local mailbox and we encourage people to do so. It doesn't even have to be on our systems. If you ask for it we will happily route your mail to your own mailserver or anywhere else. Nobody is forced to use the outsourced mailboxes.

Besides, most of our students forward their mail to gmail anyway :/
By offering such mailboxes our selves we get at least some control.

Re:Our MS vs Google fight (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 2 years ago | (#38850979)

I'm not blaming you, personally.

but I would not go to a school that cannot even manage their own systems.

I truly fear for american youth as they grow up and into the work force. they'll expect all their 'bs work' to be outsourced. its setting a trend and expectation. not at all good for our long term, though!

Re:Our MS vs Google fight (1)

CAPSLOCK2000 (27149) | more than 2 years ago | (#38851141)

Running an e-mail system is trivial compared to all the other software used by a modern university. In fact it is so easy that it can be outsourced.to the lowest bidder. That way we (the IT-departement) can focus our attention on the difficult systems.

Would you go to a school that hires some other company to clean its toilets or to mow the lawn? Would eat at a university-restaurant that does not bake its own bread? Then why do you care who runs the e-mail front-end?

Re:Our MS vs Google fight (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38851083)

Universities and privacy? When labs and grants depend on government payments?

Re:Our MS vs Google fight (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 2 years ago | (#38851073)

...we are now back talking with Google.

Wait.. what? This sounds like a presidential election. You get pissed off at the republicans, so you vote democrat. Turns out the democrats are the same thing, so you go back to the republicans?? That does not compute

Re:Our MS vs Google fight (1)

CAPSLOCK2000 (27149) | more than 2 years ago | (#38851153)

Google was honest, Microsoft made a promise that it couldn't keep and were incompetent to boot (what a surprise). We reward honesty.

Re:Our MS vs Google fight (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 2 years ago | (#38851361)

Google was honest...

I have to admit the same goes for the republicans

Microsoft made a promise that it couldn't* keep...

*replace with 'wouldn't'

Ditto for the democrats...

I guess we're in real trouble if the only alternative is GoDaddy, Twitter, or Facebook

About time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849183)

Sweet lord .. i been tellin geveryone for the past 4 years that we need european versions of facebook and al
because the data protection laws are better in the EU . not only that .. but your data dpont end up at the FBI and other
US spying agencies.

The day we got a EU based social net like facebook ill be lining up for it
Im tired of the US bullying and spying everyone when all we need is a place to be left alone in peace.
Come on Europe .. start leading the bandwagon .. we NEED you !

ric

Names Please? (1)

Cornwallis (1188489) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849199)

So can anyone list a EU-based provider I can use?

Re:Names Please? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849277)

No Company in the EU is safe from the US Gov. End of.
The US has laws that extend ALL US laws into every country in the world. They will use this to come after you if they even have the smallest suspicion that ther might just possibly mabe pehaps be something related to piracy, terrorism, child porn, anti US sentiments somewhere in your data.
Then it will be up to your government to tell the US what they can do with their extradition request. Mostly, they will roll over and let them take you.
The US also has laws where you can be held indefinitely without trial, charge or even access to a lawyer.

If you choose to go with a company that just happens to be a local subsidiary of a US company OR have a US subsidiat itself, they can wealk in without a warrant and take your data.

Where are you going for your hosting now?
 

Re:Names Please? (2)

UBfusion (1303959) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849335)

Enough with this anti-"US law" crap... It's not a matter of the US laws but of the international treaties signed between US and its allies. No country dares to deny signing such treaties, because US has its ways.

Re:Names Please? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849775)

Why is it the EU countries are now signing ACTA, but in the US we still have some resistance to the notion that this is just another Obama-nation "executive agreement" that does not need "advice and consent" of the US Senate? Some here in the US still do adhere to our quaint notions about checks and balances to limit governmental power.

We just need work more on distinguishing better between big business and "free enterprise"/individual liberty, and opt for the latter when there is a conflict. As long as we are a work in progress, there is hope.

Re:Names Please? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849845)

You realise that the US signed ACTA last year, right?

Re:Names Please? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38850039)

May I humbly suggest you go and look at the laws signed by Obama extending US jurisdiction to the whole planet.
Then look at the law that allows thwe US to hold people without charge, trial or legal representation. This is Gitmo++. You are gone, lost. It is as if you never existed.

Try this one for starters...
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/worldview/even-us-citizens-face-indefinite-detention-in-new-anti-terror-law/article2297240/ [theglobeandmail.com]

If you are a well connected US Citizen you might be able to challenge this as being unconstituional but that would take years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_jurisdiction_over_international_defendants_in_the_United_States [wikipedia.org]
In particular, look at the 'Raju Case' section.

Then perhaps you might like to think again.
Laws like this make the US a pariah IMHO.

Re:Names Please? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849313)

OVH, to name one of the big ones. http://forum.ovh.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5614
But there are many smaller companies that would fit.

Re:Names Please? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849583)

OVH number one host for your piracy needs. Add Leaseweb to the list of fishy ISP.

Re:Names Please? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849821)

as far as i know, ovh cancels contracts quite fast, when they suspect piracy.

Re:Names Please? (1)

UBfusion (1303959) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849319)

If you're really interested, I'd suggest to limit your search in non-EU and non-NATO European countries like e.g. Albania.

For those small countries, the development of data centers/clouds right at this moment might be the opportunity of a lifetime.

Re:Names Please? (1)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849463)

Khaled el-Masri http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_El-Masri [wikipedia.org] was "released" at night on a desolate road in Albania after US rendition.
More at http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,490514,00.html [spiegel.de]
The NSA may be at Shkoder http://cryptome.org/jya/nsa-scs.htm [cryptome.org]

The only private cloud... (3, Interesting)

PSVMOrnot (885854) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849289)

The only truly private cloud is the one you own, manage and host yourself. For most users this is of course not feasible; they lack the knowledge, time and inclination to set one up. For us tech types however it's getting to the feasible stage.

We have all seen the news about the Raspberry Pi [slashdot.org] , a dirt cheap mini computer that can run on a handful of AA batterys. Take a linux distro of your choice which runs on the Raspberry Pi, add some lovely open source software like Zarafa [zarafa.com] , sprinkle lightly with a dynamic DNS [wikipedia.org] and bake for however long you want in a cool Raspberry Pi. Serves an entire household (or more).

For that extra security flavour you can garnish with an OpenVPN connection [openvpn.net] , and deny all other incomming traffic.

Et voila! Mobile, web accessable email, contacts and calendar (plus whatever else you want to set up on there) with the data being on your machine and in your control.

Re:The only private cloud... (1)

UBfusion (1303959) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849343)

It might be the "only truly private cloud" but still it's not safe (if installed within an EU country).

Re:The only private cloud... (1)

PSVMOrnot (885854) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849377)

It might be the "only truly private cloud" but still it's not safe (if installed within an EU country).

Well, yes, there is always something; such as the risk of having your door broken down and said little box being carted off.

Did you have some specific examples in mind?

Re:The only private cloud... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849499)

The only truly private cloud is the one you own, manage and host yourself.

No kidding. This whole "cloud" business just reeks of centralized control. I'll keep my general computing needs a little closer to my person, thanks.
Doyou want to keep your data / computing safe? Do it in-house. If you want to get something distributed, stick it in "the cloud".

No they won't with Barosso (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849297)

With Barosso in power in the EU Commission? No way will EU Cloud providers benefit! USA will simply ask Barosso for warrant/evidence free access to the data and he'll hand it over, just like he did with SWIFT banking data.

Tell me I'm wrong here. He simply pretended he wanted a strong response, so he could get control of the issue, then he promptly signs over a one way transfer of banking data to the USA!

And ACTA's the same story, it will be pushed through on a subcommittee of the EU Parliament, just like the SWIFT data thing was. Divide and conquer, so many little middle management leaders, its easy to undermine Europe.

The privacy thing means nothing, because push comes to shove, the US will just find an EU leadership channel to permit whatever data grab they want.

More jobs.... overseas (1)

tidepool (137349) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849301)

Not that I believe that servers and organizations based in the EU are 'safe' from our (US) recent tactics of policing the world, however, IF this were to be the case:

There goes another (small?) portion of jobs, to the overseas, never to be hiring or promoting here again!

Obviously, this is EXACTLY what we are looking for, so it makes perfect sense to keep pushing things this hard! *

(*no)

ACTA anyone? (2)

idbeholda (2405958) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849345)

I highly doubt the above statement, given this...

http://www.prisonplanet.com/obama-signs-global-internet-treaty-worse-than-sopa.html [prisonplanet.com]

It won't really matter where the servers are in a particular jurisdiction, if your country has signed the Anti-Counterfitting Trade Act, you're pretty much screwed. So much for turning fear and uncertainty into an economic boon.

Re:ACTA anyone? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849599)

I recall prisonplanet being a conspiracy-loon website.

Terrorism has a new face... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849353)

And it is called "Cloud".

The Government of the United States of America should do everything in its power to eliminate this threat. It offends me to think that our laws can be sidestepped in such a blatant manner.

I'll bet it will be merely a matter of hours before these clouds are used to host child pornography and recipes for bombs, deadly viruses, and poisons. There will probably also be a ton of propaganda stating things like "It's OK to have abortions! Your body belongs to you, NOT the Government!", or "Unions are good because they interfere with the ability of the white man to keep you down!" or "The FBI sold crack to your parents and grandparents. Will you trust them to sell crack to your children? 70% discount for new customers, 45 days only!" or "The entire male population of Washington, D.C. does not want to be forced to rape you. So don't have premarital sex or touch a member of the opposite sex!"

People just don't get what a THREAT to humanity these clouds are. They are being seeded with acid which will erode away everything that has made America great. And there is only one America. The one that we call the United States of America. God bless.

Re:Terrorism has a new face... (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 2 years ago | (#38850245)

img src="old_man_simpson_yells_at_cloud.jpg"

(sorry, but it seemed to apply, here).

New service? (2)

qbast (1265706) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849381)

I wonder how successful would be a company providing data storage service like Dropbox, but with guaranteed data security. I mean that all encryption would be done by client software (with source code provided so everyone can verify that) and no keys or unencrypted data would be ever transmitted to company's servers. In this case complying with warrants and subpoenas would be no problem - here is all we have, have fun decrypting.

Re:New service? (1)

Riskable (19437) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849485)

The point of encrypting your data is so that 3rd parties CAN'T access it. Encrypt it yourself and THEN put it in the cloud.

Re:New service? (2)

Registered Coward v2 (447531) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849495)

I wonder how successful would be a company providing data storage service like Dropbox, but with guaranteed data security. I mean that all encryption would be done by client software (with source code provided so everyone can verify that) and no keys or unencrypted data would be ever transmitted to company's servers. In this case complying with warrants and subpoenas would be no problem - here is all we have, have fun decrypting.

All a court will do is compel the owner to provide the keys to allow decryption. There's a case right now where a judge has down just that; I hope it will go to SCOTUS who will squash it but that's not a sure bet. If you refuse, it's contempt of court and jail time until you comply.

Personally, I think you should be able to plead the fifth and not be compelled to decrypt; but until SCOTUS decides the law is unclear in the US.

Re:New service? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849747)

You are compelled to give up a key to a safe, why would you not be compelled to give up a key to a digital safe?

Re:New service? (2)

Raumkraut (518382) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849885)

My interpretation, as a non-lawyer:

If the key (password) is only in your head, then supplying it is an admission of ownership or knowledge of the contents of a private "digital safe" - ie. self-incrimination.

Handing over the key to a physical safe is an admission only that you had the key.

Re:New service? (2)

fa2k (881632) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849847)

I wonder how successful would be a company providing data storage service like Dropbox, but with guaranteed data security.

There are several companies like that: http://www.wuala.com/ [wuala.com] , https://spideroak.com/ [spideroak.com] , http://www.swissdisk.com/ [swissdisk.com] . They are doing OK, I believe, but don't have the hype of Dropbox. They don't have to say they guarantee the security because only the user has the keys (which is the best guarantee possible).

Re:New service? (1)

fa2k (881632) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849861)

Maybe SwissDisk isn't encrypted actually. The above is not a recommendation.

Re:New service? (1)

flyingfsck (986395) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849979)

Hmm, Wuala is based in Switzerland, but SwissDisk isn't.

Re:New service? (1)

horza (87255) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849919)

Isn't that what Spideroak [spideroak.com] does? Personally I use Dropbox for sharing photos I don't care about, and Spideroak for storing documents.

Phillip.

EU (1)

Grindalf (1089511) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849617)

Does anyone in the EU trust the EU with their data? No! It is mostly composed of "other nation states." The EU is not a federal entity like the US and it is therefore technically wrong to apply that type of security trust across borders. The less you trust other people's computers, and the more you control of your own computing platform, then the more you can guarantee any given outcome. Trust no one (to summarize).

Face the fact (2)

devent (1627873) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849739)

Except where a agreement exists in which the EU must give the USA authorities access to the data if it's about terrorism (or whatever), like with the bank transactions. Like the Swift agreement between the EU and the USA. It's an open secret that in order to spy on the citizens the USA and the EU have agreements of data sharing. Because of strict privacy laws in the EU they just agree to share the data with the USA, so the USA can see the data and tell the EU everything in order to fight terrorism (or whatever).

Face the fact: if you put your data in the cloud, the goverment have it. There is no way around it.

I disagree (1)

BrianErvin (2552524) | more than 2 years ago | (#38849867)

my best friend's mom makes $77 an hour on the computer. She has been out of job for 9 months but last month her check was $7487 just working on the computer for a few hours. Read about it here http://cashsharp.com/ [cashsharp.com]

Re:I disagree (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38850117)

Yeah. I think I've seen her streaming video page.

Re:I disagree (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38850611)

$77 an hour!? Man, there are some stupid people, I've seen her webcam feed, she's ugly!

A real risk (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38849933)

My university campus in australia moved to google hosted email. A hardon for google's cloud and Nice Tech(tm) were the driving forces from discussions I was in on.

There are legitimate concerns that were simply ignored though. Students from certain countries (see: Iran, mainland China, etc) can be understandable anxious about certain governments wanting to grab their information. They didn't complain quite as loud the next semester once the rollout was complete, and with that the steamrolling process was complete.

A company in EU is mandatory (1)

GPLHost-Thomas (1330431) | more than 2 years ago | (#38850951)

not only has a data centre within their jurisdiction, but is also owned by an organisation based in that jurisdiction.

That sentence is really silly. If you have a hosting service in EU, and want to sell in the EU, then you need to be in the VAT system, which means that having a company registered in EU is quite mandatory (I quite know because we had to form GPLHost UK in order to sell in EU...). So the sentence is redundant and stupid.

The only truly safe place for your data (1)

countertrolling (1585477) | more than 2 years ago | (#38851023)

/dev/null

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