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Apple Forcing IT Shops To 'Adapt Or Die'

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the techno-industrial-darwinism dept.

Apple 715

alphadogg writes "Many IT departments are struggling with Apple's 'take it or leave it' attitude, based on discussions last week at MacIT, which is Macworld|iWorld's companion conference for IT professionals. Much of the questioning following technical presentations wasn't about Apple technology or products. It was about the complexities and confusions of trying to sort out for the enterprise Apple's practices. Those practices include the use of Apple IDs and iTunes accounts, which are designed for individual Mac or iPad or iPhone users, and programs like Apple's Volume Purchase Program, which, according to Apple 'makes it simple to find, buy, and distribute the apps your business needs' and to buy custom, third-party B2B apps."

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715 comments

Why Apple is good (0, Troll)

WhiteK (2564633) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884559)

I am a geek with good understanding about Linux. I probably know more about computers than your typical Slashdot geek. But you know what? I bought my first Apple product last week and I can see why people like it.

And why I don't think Apple forcing their way is bad? Because they have done much larger good for general computing than Linux and even Windows have ever done. People like Apple's products and that is only because they have "forced" their views about computers. Unless Steve Jobs and others did this we would still look like bunch of nerds and geeks. But Steve Jobs came and changed that. He actually made computing cool. And no, I haven't always thought this way. I did think Apple was really damaging for computing ecosystem, with this exact reason. However, after trying Apple's products I can honestly say what Apple does is good for geeks. Maybe Linux didn't succeed, but we have something much better - cool OS based on BSD.

Seriously, try one of Apple's products. It's not hard to see why they're so popular. And for Linux devs - try to make your stuff more like Apple's products.

Re:Why Apple is good (0, Flamebait)

mikeossur (2537430) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884595)

Yes fan boy

Re:Why Apple is good (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38884617)

You are obviously of superior intellect to the OP.

Re:Why Apple is good (-1, Troll)

WhiteK (2564633) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884723)

Yes fan boy

You know, I really used to think that way. Back when I haven't tried Apple's products, and back when people praising Apple really did sound like huge fan boys to me. Then I actually tried them myself. Go figure.

Re:Why Apple is good (4, Insightful)

Belial6 (794905) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884885)

I took the plunge and replaced my PC for 2 months with a Mac. My conclusion was that OSX was easily as fine as the Emperors New Cloths.

Re:Why Apple is good (4, Informative)

erroneus (253617) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884907)

I not only "tried" Apple gear and products, I have and still support them. I probably know a lot more about Linux and about MacOS than you. I guided a professional organization through the transition from MacOS9 to MacOSX and on. I know Apple intimately. I can tell you that what people think Apple is, often isn't the case. Most of it is hype and misplaced perceptions.

When you break a computer down to how it serves the interests and needs of a user, even you have to admit that Apple more or less requires that the user shift their needs and interests to fit within the Apple framework of products and services rather than the other way around. Apple is not particularly adaptable nor is it flexible. And if you disagree with this view, then you already disagree with Apple -- they say the same things themselves. "We tell users what they want" sound familiar?

Re:Why Apple is good (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38884607)

He actually made computing cool.

First, who gives a shit? Second, he didn't make computing cool - he used cool to sell consumer electronics. That's not 'computing' any more than watching TV is 'computing'.

Re:Why Apple is good (2, Informative)

Daniel Phillips (238627) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884895)

He swore to destroy Android. He got his chinese sweatshot workers jumping to their deaths in herds. He got the apple police to kick in the front door of a journalist. He lied about the antenna.

Re:Why Apple is good (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38884979)

He jumped the queue for a liver then wasted it.

Re:Why Apple is good (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38884621)

" try to make your stuff more like Apple's products"

you mean dumb it down? make each new version make the older version obsolete? or sell the white version for a $100 more?

Re:Why Apple is good (1)

WhiteK (2564633) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884691)

" try to make your stuff more like Apple's products"

you mean dumb it down? make each new version make the older version obsolete? or sell the white version for a $100 more?

You call that dumbing it down, I call it making stuff more accessible. Compare GIMP to Photoshop. Is it really dumbing it down or spending just a few seconds thinking what other users want to do, and improving the interface to do it? Your product might be the best and most powerful in the whole world, but if no one can use it, what good does it do?

Re:Why Apple is good (1)

ThunderBird89 (1293256) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884789)

I'm not sure GIMP is better than Photoshop. At the very least, Photoshop has a much more organized UI, which I can navigate through much easier.

Best of both worlds would be an "Advanced Mode", where you can change all the settings, but for the average consumers, most settings may be hidden away, and make the whole thing "just work". Unless something goes wrong, or you want to tweak something, you may never even have to see all the settings and variables.

Re:Why Apple is good (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38884879)

Care to explain your comparison of GIMP and Photoshop? Your arguments are ambiguous.

Remember that Final Cut Pro X was designed to be "more accessible", and we all know how that turned out...

Re:Why Apple is good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38884971)

GIMP doesn't have a choice, because your "church" holds some patents, pretty obvious ones too. So, when GIMP has to do something, it needs to do it differently, not better in any way, just different enough not to get sued.

All Apple EVER had was a good marketing strategy. Period. Nothing else, they never had more than a neglijable market share, other than the iPod and iPhone, which they very quickly lost. Their hardware was good enough at one point, then became nothing more than PC stock. The interface, software, was stolen or adapted from somewhere else.

Apple, is a brand, a name, without it, it's nothing else. That's why they keept those high prices, reducing it to it's real value, WOULD get them more sales, but diminish the brand's power over time, eventually killing it.

But I think you're confused. Mistaking Macs for iPhones. Same maker, but totally different clients, markets and market percentages.

Re:Why Apple is good (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38885033)

No, what GIMP needs is a new name. I don't a rats what it stands for, it's offensive. Lets just call it NIGGER and complain when people say it's racist. "It isn't a slang for a black person, it's an abbreviation."

Re:Why Apple is good (0, Troll)

Daniel Phillips (238627) | more than 2 years ago | (#38885001)

I call it dumbing down. It gives me a nearly irresistable urge to break Apple products in two on the edge of a table.

Re:Why Apple is good (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38884641)

I'd love to try OS X on my PC in a VirtualBox VM. But, alas, the Apple EULA forbids it. So, they're loss, I suppose.

Re:Why Apple is good (5, Funny)

djrosen (265939) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884657)

Linux mentioned, CHECK. Claiming King Geek in front of a nation of geeks, CHECK. Apple Fanboi posing as a Geek, priceless.

Re:Why Apple is good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38884671)

I've tried Apple's products and some of them are indeed very slick if they are used by a single person alone; sharing them is a bloody nightmare.

OSX on the other hand is one of the worst GUIs I've ever used. Given a choice I'd rather use CDE and that was total and utter shit but still better than OSX.

Re:Why Apple is good (3, Informative)

Imagix (695350) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884677)

But you have not said anything about how this applies to IT shops. How do I buy 30 licenses for (lets say OmniGraffle). How does one then assign those licenses to the 30 people that need them? Then later I fire #14 and hire a new person? So far the options are: 1) Buy the app under the employee's own Apple ID. But then #14 takes a copy of the software when he leaves. 2) Buy the app under the employee's corporate Apple ID. But then #14's Apple ID isn't in the company anymore, and nobody has that license. 3) Buy the app under some anonymous corporate Apple ID. (emp14@example.com). When I replace #14, the replacement gets _all_ of the Apps that #14 had. And #3 has another problem that IT would have to retain (and manage) the passwords to all of the emp## accounts as the App literally has to be bought under that account, so IT would need to change the password, attach a credit card, buy the app, detach the credit card, change the password back. Previously, one would buy 30 licenses of OmniGraffle, download the .dmg file, install on the appropriate 30 machines.

Re:Why Apple is good (2, Informative)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884883)

4) Go to Omni and purchase a Quantity Discount for up to 30% off. Or a Large Volume Discount for whatever price you happen to negotiate.

https://store.omnigroup.com/main/86705d974e0553dcffffffff/ [omnigroup.com]

Just like you did before.

The Mac isn't a walled garden. If software is suitable for enterprise use, then the software vendors will have a volume licensing option. The Mac App Store is designed to make finding, buying and installing apps easy for consumers. But it's not the only way of supplying Mac software.

Re:Why Apple is good (1)

Imagix (695350) | more than 2 years ago | (#38885075)

Note the "lets say OmniGraffle". Pick an app which is only distributed via the App Store. Say, the Blink SIP soft phone. Both the Lite and Pro versions are only available through the App Store.

Re:Why Apple is good (3, Informative)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884687)

The problem with Apple is there is no customization in either hardware or software.

Lets say I want a phone with a physical keyboard running iOS. I can't have it. On the other hand, I can have a wide variety of phone form factors on Android and even Windows Phone 7. Want a really thin phone with no keyboard? They've got it. Want a phone with a sliding keyboard? They've got it. Want a keyboard just on the face of the phone? They've got it. One size does not fit all.

Lets say I want a cheap computer for web browsing, e-mail and office use. If I get a PC, I can get a laptop for about $330, sure it isn't really high end, but it will do what I want. On the other hand, if I wanted to get the same thing running OS X it would cost me, what? $600 for an iPad which isn't close to a full fledged computer? Or $1,000 for a cheap Macbook?

Or lets say I want a minor customization, putting the window buttons on the left side like most people are used to. With Linux, switching the window buttons are easy, a quick Google search will tell you how to rearrange them. On the other hand, there seems to be no way to do it on a Mac. Lack of customization is what keeps me away from Chrome and also Mac OS.

Yes, Mac OS is nicely designed, but there is simply no customization. Even Windows offers more customization. After all, the operating system is there to stay out of the way, part of it being that I should be able to customize it how I want to, something that OS X doesn't give me.

Re:Why Apple is good (0)

Belial6 (794905) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884951)

There are plenty of slide out keyboards available for the iPhone. The fact that there is such a limited form factor for iPhones means that slide out keyboards can be done right. As an accessory.

Re:Why Apple is good (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38884697)

I have tried apple products, they suck. The reason why linux isn't as pretty and easy to use as os x is because there are not PAID linux devs, not like you have for windows or os x, and there is no unified force behind it. linux is a bunch of neck beards who all have their own idea about how the OS should be. That is why there is a million and one distros. Apple isn't the answer though, they just go the opposite way and tell you what you need and how you need it. They over price it all, and pretend they invented everything, apple sucks.

Re:Why Apple is good (1)

Pubstar (2525396) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884805)

I have for audio recording and video production in school. We got two brand new G5 towers the week they came out, and I did really enjoy using them. BUT I would never own one myself. I game way too much to ever bother with a Mac. Since I do build my own systems, why would I ever spend so much money on lower quality parts? My $1000 budget rig in the office is more powerful than a $2700 Mac.

Re:Why Apple is good (1, Informative)

Sponge Bath (413667) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884867)

Seriously, try one of Apple's products. It's not hard to see why they're so popular.

Exactly. There are plenty of top notch technical people who like Apple. I was skeptical myself until I tried their products. Now I have several, and I'm very happy. I still use and develop for Windows and Linux. There is nothing about Apple products that magically make you stupid or incapable of using other platforms. Hard core anti-Apple people are generally those who speak from, at best, second hand knowledge.

Re:Why Apple is good (0, Flamebait)

Daniel Phillips (238627) | more than 2 years ago | (#38885079)

There are plenty of top notch technical people who like Apple.

Really? I would count myself has having considerable data on the subject and it seems pretty consistent. The techies who are Apple fans are typically the B's who hire C's.

Re:Why Apple is good (1)

w.hamra1987 (1193987) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884923)

well it boils down to the old windows vs linux argument. back then, we used to say how microsoft imposes itself on the user, and *chooses* what's best for him, whereas linux provides more customizability, and imposes no choice over you. now apple took this even further, and imposed even MORE defaults over the user. is this still general computing? i wouldn't call it so. some people in life are creators, some are mere followers... i prefer to have real control over my software, thankyouverymuch

Re:Why Apple is good (1)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884925)

I am a nerd with a decent understanding of Linux, Windows, and OSX systems. I have tried Apple's products, and I'm thoroughly unimpressed. The action on iPods and Macs feels sluggish - there's a half-second delay between when you swipe or click the action and when the action begins to occur.

Why are Apple products slow for being on cutting-edge hardware? The only explanation is the condescending genius of Steve Jobs - it was his design decision to slow down his gadgets on purpose as if to say, "hold on a sec and get ready -- you're about to have your feeble minds blown while the fucking application launches."

Re:Why Apple is good (1)

stanlyb (1839382) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884943)

I can say that this car "Bugatti Veyron " http://fastestcarsintheworld.net/ [fastestcar...eworld.net] is the best car ever, and forever, especially compared to any regular ford or chevo.....but, BUT, but....do you want me to continue??? Yep, the same, the price.

Re:Why Apple is good (1)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884997)

Why on earth did that post get a Troll mod? Troll mod doesn't mean "I disagree".

Re:Why Apple is good (1)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 2 years ago | (#38885247)

Surely even from behind the iron curtain of the RDF, that blatant pandering to Apple fanbois while feigning geek cred must be fairly obvious trolling. Then again, perhaps not.

Re:Why Apple is good (3, Insightful)

exomondo (1725132) | more than 2 years ago | (#38885055)

Seriously, try one of Apple's products. It's not hard to see why they're so popular.

Of course you can see why they're popular, but it's not price or ignorance that keeps people from owning them, it's that it's never a one-size-fits-all solution.

And for Linux devs - try to make your stuff more like Apple's products.

Why? If you want stuff that's like Apple's products buy Apple's products.

Re:Why Apple is good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38885129)

You've got your first apple product 1 week ago? Hardly makes you an authorative on their devices. I smell a die hard Apple fan.
But to address your suggestion, I was given an iPhone for work which I used it for more than a year and I didn't like it. I don't really understand why they are so popular from a TECHNICAL standpoint. Steve did a fantastic marketing job and the UI is easy but unintuitive.
So to sum up: iOS is not for everyone, and saying try it, you'll be surprised is ignorant at best.

I am a geek and its in my nature to tinker, you cannot tinker on iOS without jailbreaking and jailbreaking goes against my ethics. (be Apple forbids you from tinkering and to do so you void* your warranty).

* I know it may not be legal, but Apple still state jailbreaking voids your warranty.

Re:Why Apple is good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38885143)

And for Linux devs - try to make your stuff more like Apple's products.

They have been. And it sucks.

You know all the hate towards Unity and Gnome 3? That's because they're trying to make it more like Mac OS X!

Here's a hint: if you own an Apple product, you're not a geek. You're a hipster.

what does (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38884619)

an iTunes account have to do with the business workplace and enterprise computing - no iTunes on company computers - problem solved!

Re:what does (5, Informative)

icebike (68054) | more than 2 years ago | (#38885115)

Well the fanboys will mod you down for that.

But you are correct, itunes has no place on a corporate machine. And quite frankly the idea you need a music player to manage a phone is like saying you need a fish to manage your bicycle.

Itunes can be placed on the users home machine. Its not at all certain you can SECURELY accommodate iPhones in the work place AND prevent itunes from being installed. However there is an Apple iPhone Configuration utility [apple.com] that is supposed to do this.

I have yet to see it in use anywhere, but some claim you can use on the corporate network and still block itunes on corporate machines.

Re:what does (1)

Samantha Wright (1324923) | more than 2 years ago | (#38885147)

That's all well and good until someone needs to get contact info, mail, and apps in and out of a company-purchased phone. An iTunes account is necessary to operate an iOS device.

Apple forcing IT shops to buy elsewhere (2, Insightful)

sunderland56 (621843) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884633)

Apple is still a niche player. IT shops can easily buy elsewhere, and bring in policies that lock out employee-owned devices. How is this a good business model for Apple?

Re:Apple forcing IT shops to buy elsewhere (4, Insightful)

blahbooboo (839709) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884683)

You forgot something, eventually IT shops have to do what their users want...

Re:Apple forcing IT shops to buy elsewhere (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38884739)

Not in regulated environments, they don't. Users who try to do what they want in those environments can find themselves being escorted out of the building by security with their last paycheck and a promise to have their belongings shipped to them in hand.

Re:Apple forcing IT shops to buy elsewhere (1)

jaymz666 (34050) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884741)

You forgot something, eventually Apple will have to do what their users in IT want

Re:Apple forcing IT shops to buy elsewhere (4, Insightful)

JAlexoi (1085785) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884759)

No... IT shops have to do what their users need. If you did everything what your users wanted, you'd never get off the support line.

Re:Apple forcing IT shops to buy elsewhere (2, Insightful)

mjwx (966435) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884967)

No... IT shops have to do what their users need. If you did everything what your users wanted, you'd never get off the support line.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Spoken like someone who has never worked in tech support.

IT has to enable the company to make money, not pander to the user. We report to our boss, not yours, this includes every time a user refuses to do something we tell them to do.

If you dont understand you work for the companies interest, not the users interest you will get off the support line... and on to the unemployment line.

Seriously, the quickest way to advance in IT is to show an understanding of how a business (more specifically, your business) operates, the quickest way to fail in an IT career is to do everything the user wants.

IT is there to make sure you can work, not to hold the users hand and make them feel better.

Sorry GP (0)

mjwx (966435) | more than 2 years ago | (#38885061)

I got your post confused with the post below yours. That sarcasm was meant for him.

Re:Apple forcing IT shops to buy elsewhere (1)

ibmjones (52133) | more than 2 years ago | (#38885091)

No. . . IT shops have do what *Company* thinks the users need.

Ultimately, IT follow the business directives that management have made. If an end user believe that the current directives do not meet the needs of the business, ultimately, they have to make the justification for changing the directives and policies to management, not just to IT.

Re:Apple forcing IT shops to buy elsewhere (1)

JAlexoi (1085785) | more than 2 years ago | (#38885243)

There should be no "thinks" in your first statement. IT has to do whatever the users need to do to perform their job. The company always knows what the "user" has to do to perform their job.

Re:Apple forcing IT shops to buy elsewhere (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38884897)

You forgot something, eventually Apple will have to do what PCI-DSS/HIPPA/SSAE16/Client Contracts/Government mandates....

Re:Apple forcing IT shops to buy elsewhere (1)

ElVee (208723) | more than 2 years ago | (#38885027)

IT shops have to do what their users want, within the regulatory and financial framework laid down by government, corporate counsel, shareholders, lenders, legal privacy requirements, and all with an adoring eye focused on our fiduciary duty to our employees, customers and suppliers.

Just because a user wants to be able to have a neat toy doesn't mean we throw all those requirements to the wind. Trade secrets that leak out into the public domain through insecure devices means those secrets aren't, well... secret. Credit card numbers, social security numbers, private medical information and such all require a certain standard of care in handling, and if the device can't meet that standard, which means that we as a corporation can't CONTROL how that device is used, then we can't allow our users to have those devices, regardless of their heartfelt desires. The legal liability alone dictates what we can and can't do.

I really do like Apple products. I own far too many myself. However, we won't allow those devices on our internal network because of all the reasons I listed.

Re:Apple forcing IT shops to buy elsewhere (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38885051)

You forgot something, eventually IT shops have to do what their users want...

I work at a research centre.

Some of my users want us to support CentOS, some want Scientific Linux, some want Ubuntu, some want Debian, some want Gentoo. Some want NFS, some want AFS, some want Lustre, some want GPFS.

So, which one/s should have their way? BTW, I"m on a team of three that takes care of 300 users.

Re:Apple forcing IT shops to buy elsewhere (5, Interesting)

mjwx (966435) | more than 2 years ago | (#38885205)

Apple is still a niche player. IT shops can easily buy elsewhere, and bring in policies that lock out employee-owned devices. How is this a good business model for Apple?

Apple is not a player in business and enterprise period and it's far too easy to buy elsewhere.

Apple products get met with one word from my department, unsupported.

When a user complains about not being able to use their Macbook because it cant log into half the systems we use the problem is theirs because the platform is unsupported. Having done mac support before, I'll quit before having to touch another mac. Mac solutions came in three types, 50% of the time it cant be done, 40% of the time it's a hack, 10% the feature was there but so poorly implemented it's still a pain to use let alone administer. Support was a pain, it took those "geniuses" at Apple a week to fix a blown PSU in an Imac, they didn't do collect and return let alone the on site next business day support I got from Dell, Lenovo, IBM and Toshiba. Worse yet are the users, when a virus makes it onto the network, most of the time it came from a Mac user forwarding Adobe_CS3_Crack.exe to someone.

So I have a very long list of reasons why Apple products are on the unsupported list.

apple does not have real server hardware at least (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884647)

apple does not have real server hardware at least come at least let sever run in a VM on any base hardware.

The mini sever lacks alot of stuff a real sever has and the mac pro lacks some of the same stuff as well + it's a very poor fit.

Re:apple does not have real server hardware at lea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38884853)

Assuming you meant "server" and not "sever", the license for Mac OS X Server has allowed users to run the OS in a virtual machine since 10.5 (Leopard) in 2007. I've run them before in VMware products with no problems.

Re:apple does not have real server hardware at lea (1)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884973)

Yes. Apple used to service the server market with rack-mounted Xserve servers, and a seperate build of OSX of servers. Then a few years ago they pulled out of the server market, withdrew the Xserves and rolled the server version of OSX into the main version.

You can run a workgroup or webserver from a Mac Mini. But Apple aren't really pursuing the enterprise server market any more.

Arrogance beyond belief (4, Insightful)

msobkow (48369) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884665)

"Stop thinking of software as an asset, and start thinking of it as you think about paper and pens," White said. Astonishingly, he then added, "It may require huge changes in your accounting procedures."

So you think because a few million people run Apps that the entire corporate infrastructure, the existing mainframe, unix, windows, and linux systems, and EVERYTHING ELSE is going to change to make ROOM for Apple in the enterprise?

Sir, you SERIOUSLY underestimate your importance to North American enterprises. Even Microsoft isn't that ignorant of their REAL place in the IT industry.

Re:Arrogance beyond belief (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884795)

"Stop thinking of software as an asset, and start thinking of it as you think about paper and pens," White said. Astonishingly, he then added, "It may require huge changes in your accounting procedures."

So you think because a few million people run Apps that the entire corporate infrastructure, the existing mainframe, unix, windows, and linux systems, and EVERYTHING ELSE is going to change to make ROOM for Apple in the enterprise?

Sir, you SERIOUSLY underestimate your importance to North American enterprises. Even Microsoft isn't that ignorant of their REAL place in the IT industry.

I think the iPhone has an app for Enterprise Payroll...

j/k

Re:Arrogance beyond belief (4, Funny)

ATMAvatar (648864) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884941)

Funny story - the president of my company recently got an iPhone 4. For convenience, he decided he wanted to set it up to work with his BMW for hands-free use. Sounds simple, right?

I suppose with any other phone, it would have been. He found out that he would have to update the firmware on his car's computer systems (yes, plural - 16, in fact!). Not to be deterred by this, he had the dealer go ahead and apply the updates. In the end, they bricked his car trying to get it to inter-operate with his phone.

Re:Arrogance beyond belief (2)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 2 years ago | (#38885101)

I don't doubt your anecdote at all. But the idea that other phones are in general easier to get working in a car is ridiculous. Either it's going to be a generic fit, and that's going to fit any phone,including the iPhone, just as easily. Or it's going to be a proprietary fit, and that's going to be for the iPhone.

Re:Arrogance beyond belief (1)

quacking duck (607555) | more than 2 years ago | (#38885135)

My own boss is a bit miffed his iPhone 4S doesn't work with the Bluetooth in his Mercedes like his 3GS did, but... bricking a BMW? "Bricking" usually means it's totally unusable, can't be recovered from, you must replace the entire unit. Are you sure you're using the right term?

If yes, then wow. That manufacturer-approved (one assumes), dealership-installed firmware updates can brick a BMW says much more about BMW cars than it does Apple's inability/unwillingness to work with older technologies.

Re:Arrogance beyond belief (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 2 years ago | (#38885195)

Hard to says who is dumber here - your boss, Apple or BMW.

Let's call it a tie and move on.

Re:Arrogance beyond belief (1)

SolemnLord (775377) | more than 2 years ago | (#38885047)

So you think because a few million people run Apps that the entire corporate infrastructure, the existing mainframe, unix, windows, and linux systems, and EVERYTHING ELSE is going to change to make ROOM for Apple in the enterprise?

Judging from the billion-dollar North American enterprise that I work for, yes. Unless replacing the company's entire "fleet" of Blackberries and Samsung devices with iPhones somehow doesn't count.

Re:Arrogance beyond belief (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38885235)

Even Microsoft isn't that ignorant of their REAL place in the IT industry.

Kind of hard to be ignorant of your position when you're at the top. But before I'm beset by rabid Linux zealots who have never seen MSSQL or even comprehend that it's a critical enterprise(tm) component...

Apple's problem is only a problem depending on what sector of the 'IT industry' you're referring to.

I know no shortage of folks with iPhones and iPads; and if you don't believe mobile is going to drive business going forward, you're a fool. There is absolutely no chance that Android is going to ever make the iPhone and iPad go away, and there's a damned great deal to be said for closed systems when you're talking enterprise.

I also see more and more shops issuing developers/secretaries/the janitor Macbooks instead of old school desktops. Power for power users with handholding for the clueless, and the ability to run both Mac and Windows software? With the chance that your employees will take their kit home and do work for free? In all but industries with ridiculous security requirements, it's win-win.

The one area where Apple completely fails is what I think of when I hear the word 'enterprise' used by some vapid drone: datacenter ops. Apple has nothing whatsoever to say in the datacenter. Hell, they even killed Xserve. I expect Apple will ever be able to break in to the DC. Microsoft is largely unchallenged for their core offerings, and really, can you imagine Apple providing an answer to MSSQL? Linux had the virtue of being able to eat the wind out of the sails of commercial Unixes; unless Apple starts giving away software for free, Apple stands no chance of carving out a slice there.

Now that Jobs has ascended to Godhood, Apple might do well by having Deified Jobs in a cage match against the Ellison, who is Morgoth, Black Foe of the Industry - but the resulting fight might destroy the earth, if not the universe itself. Probably better for Apple to just continue raking in the profits as they are. ;)

Apple's initial failure (2)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884695)

Back in the 1980's they failed to come to grips with what Business Users expected of a PC - thus Microsoft's fortunes were made.

Repeat?

Re:Apple's initial failure (2, Insightful)

blahbooboo (839709) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884899)

No. Users are the ones forcing the draconian policies of IT shops to change. iPhone, then iPads are being made "exceptions" to established policies because IT shops can't say no to the huge onslaught of demand. People have suffered under corporate IT policies that make desktops/laptops agonizing tools to use and inhibit productivity.

Re:Apple's initial failure (1)

erroneus (253617) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884999)

Apple knows what business wants and needs. Apple simply doesn't want to play in that market. The only markets they play in are the ones they created themselves. For Apple to participate in a market they can't control is... un-Apple-like behavior. For Apple to do phones, they required unprecedented control over the phones... unexpectedly large amounts of control... the carriers have never before given a manufacturer such power. So no, iPhone proves my point rather than disproves it.

Apple wants all the business they can get. The problem is they want it only under their terms and conditions and they won't budge.

Re:Apple's initial failure (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38885167)

"Back in the 1980's they failed to come to grips with what Business Users expected of a PC - thus Microsoft's fortunes were made.

Repeat?"

If it means "losing" and socking away another 100 billion in cash into the bank on their way to becoming a 500 billion dollar company, I guess they'll be very happy to fail.

Guess what? Don`t cooperate and no network access. (1)

fatbuckel (1714764) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884743)

Apple does`nt want to play nice? I`ll set them right up there on the shelf next to the eight-track player. Besides, now that Jobs is gone, Apple is just circling the drain. They all but abandoned their notebooks to chase iPhone and iPad sales. Give it a couple of years. It`ll be "Apple who?"

Re:Guess what? Don`t cooperate and no network acce (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38884791)

Butthurt IT guy.

sadface

Re:Guess what? Don`t cooperate and no network acce (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884843)

Apple does`nt want to play nice? I`ll set them right up there on the shelf next to the eight-track player. Besides, now that Jobs is gone, Apple is just circling the drain. They all but abandoned their notebooks to chase iPhone and iPad sales. Give it a couple of years. It`ll be "Apple who?"

Considering the % of their revenue coming from non-personal computers, I'm surprised they haven't abandoned them. But to pick up the revenue they'd sacrifice they'll need to find a new market nitch to exploit. Better think fast or Samsung will invent it first.

Re:Guess what? Don`t cooperate and no network acce (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38884863)

Are you serious? They had their most profitable quarter ever, the second most profitable quarter in US history, the fourth most profitable quarter in the world, because of iPhone and iPad sales. And, even though you think they've abandoned laptops, it sure seems like Intel is trying to push other manufacturers to poorly copy the Air with their Ultrabooks, and failing.

Re:Guess what? Don`t cooperate and no network acce (1)

fatbuckel (1714764) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884901)

Que fanboy.

Re:Guess what? Don`t cooperate and no network acce (2)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 2 years ago | (#38885207)

It's spelled "cue". And he's giving the true verifiable facts against your delusions. Given that you are saying what you wished were true rather than what is actually true, it seems you are the fanboy. Though from that post we neither know nor care which particular company it is you're shilling for.

Re:Guess what? Don`t cooperate and no network acce (1)

Daniel Phillips (238627) | more than 2 years ago | (#38885193)

They had their most profitable quarter ever, the second most profitable quarter in US history, the fourth most profitable quarter in the world...

And the most profitable quarter in their entire corporate history, for ever and ever. Doing my part to help that happen :)

Re:Guess what? Don`t cooperate and no network acce (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38885009)

Apple does`nt want to play nice? I`ll set them right up there on the shelf next to the eight-track player. Besides, now that Jobs is gone, Apple is just circling the drain. They all but abandoned their notebooks to chase iPhone and iPad sales. Give it a couple of years. It`ll be "Apple who?"

They don't need to play nice, they can get third party developers like www.mobileiron.com to do the enterprise..think BES replacement stuff for them.

It's not as detailed as BES but it locks it down properly. It also handles data roaming better.

Re:Guess what? Don`t cooperate and no network acce (2)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 2 years ago | (#38885169)

Given they've just released the 2nd largest results of any company in history, the "Apple is just circling the drain" comment seems to be monumentally delusional.

Next to that the comment "They all but abandoned their notebooks" is merely ludicrous. (Mac sales grew 20%, mostly notebooks, against a general PC trend which was down 9%.)

Re:Guess what? Don`t cooperate and no network acce (1)

wetpainter (2271496) | more than 2 years ago | (#38885203)

Yes, they should sell everything and give the money back to the shareholders. Right?

they did such a great job with their LDAP module (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38884757)

bah it's too hard, why try?

Leave It (4, Informative)

The Joe Kewl (532609) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884765)

"Take it or Leave it"?

I would choose to leave it. Apple products, while "cool" and "neat" for the individual user, don't often work well in large enterprise environments.
This is just a fact of life.
Until better management tools are made to "manage" the apple devices / environment, they will still be a secondary (or greater) choice for enterprise environments.

Re:Leave It (4, Informative)

Ayanami_R (1725178) | more than 2 years ago | (#38885117)

They have pretty much lost the school system I work for with this rigid, we know better attitude. All administrators are on the lenovo tablet now. Supports AD and computrace right out of the box. Management tools are robust and support windows environments. We're ramping up to put tablet products on the schedule for students, it'll probably be the lenovo k1 ( or its upgrade) by then.

We had a school get 38 kindle fires, didn't ask IT of course. When we described the hell they would have to go through to manage and actually buy anything on them they were hastily returned, except the 1 that was opened. They were shocked that no, you cant buy stuff for all of them at once. Yes, you'll ned 38 different email addresses. No, if they get stolen they are gone and there is jack we can do to get them back.

It's like Occupy IT (4, Insightful)

joh (27088) | more than 2 years ago | (#38885179)

Until better management tools are made to "manage" the apple devices / environment, they will still be a secondary (or greater) choice for enterprise environments.

While I agree that Apple is very much sitting on its hands here, there is no way to ignore iDevices. It's almost like an "Occupy IT" movement. And the users are relishing our squirming and cursing. And while I'm an sysadmin myself, I'd almost say we deserve it to be on the receiving end this time. It's a comically reversed situation to how it usually works: Users are requiring simple things, you know they aren't that simple and you can't do anything really but learn and work and adapt and curse. Wow, that *hurts*. *They* are the ones who traditionally had to swallow what we rained down on them.

Now *they* are smug and wave their iPads ("it just works") and we have to find a way to make them work and to manage them. How unfair is this? Now *we* are clicking through iTunes for *them*! What goes around comes around, really.

I'm Confused (1)

stevenfuzz (2510476) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884767)

Apple is saying 1 of 2 things, but I don't know which: 1. We created these products without enterprise in mind, like, at all. BUT, we are pretending that this oversight was actually an unconscious foresight: We meant it to be this was, so, do it our way or don't do it, but just don't complain. 2. Or, although we were aware of the enterprise IT paradigm, we purposefully decided to ignore it and do it the Apple way. Strangely, the apple way seams to be to make enterprise deployment of their products almost impossible.

Apple is not marketing towards the enterprise... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38884783)

Apple markets their devices to consumers first, and they provide enough support for businesses so their stuff is accepted. This is why Apple paid Microsoft and licensed the ActiveSync protocol, so their devices would get past the corporate blood/brain barrier (which before that, only Blackberries and Windows Mobile devices could cross.)

It is just not in Apple's model to do that much for the enterprise. The XServe did not sell well so it got pulled. Same with Apple's SAN hardware. Even the old Mac Pro doesn't seem to be selling well, and has not gotten a refresh in a long time.

Apple knows that it makes its bread and butter selling to the dedicated fans who have been camping out for days at their stores for the latest iGadget. They know that trying to pitch to the enterprise will have a "meh" response at best.

Another example of this is how Apple handles product releases. As an IT person, I can sign a NDA in blood, and get a roadmap from IBM or Oracle about what they plan to do for future products, when to make sure funds are available for model refreshes, and timing budget constraints. Apple doesn't offer this. There is no way to time when to have funds ready for a product refresh when it comes to Macs or iDevices.

[1]: Ideally, Apple would make a Mac Pro case that could work as a tower, but also fit horizontally into a rack with just a simple drawer style mounting kit (similar to the venerable Ultra 450s.)

Same with Linux/Firefox (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38884871)

Because Firefox refuses to include MSI,GPO and REAL long term support (ESR is a joke) IE is king of the enterprise despite old versions not suitable for the public web. Also with Linux. Companies don't want to play silly games with KDE/GNOME/Unity or other flavors of the week. They again stick to the tried and trusted grey and blue classic interface of Windows

Fanboys can argue in the playground while the grownups use Windows.

Re:Same with Linux/Firefox (1)

stevenfuzz (2510476) | more than 2 years ago | (#38885019)

While you argue proud in the Windows fan boy playground? Kinda callin' the kettle black here bro pot.

It is a hassle... (4, Informative)

Uncle_Meataxe (702474) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884905)

Recently I had to deal with Apple's App Store. Our agency's purchasing people had no idea how to handle the App Store as the purchase has to be done from the user's computer. I spoke with an Apple government rep and he admitted that things are not set up for companies unless you're buying at least 30 (?) of something. Our purchasing folks ended up giving me the department credit card (now, there's trust!) and let me make the purchase from my cubicle. Not that hard to deal with, but certainly not standard procedure...

I'm still sorting out... (1)

chispito (1870390) | more than 2 years ago | (#38884919)

...the complexities and confusions of this write-up.

It was about the complexities and confusions of trying to sort out for the enterprise Apple's practices

We chose to 'Leave It' (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38885007)

Since we can develop our software for any platform that supports web standards, we develop in HTML5 and do application testing on open platforms. We have a single iPad2 for application verification but it is PIN-locked with no iTunes account. No apps other than the what comes out of the box, and all parental restrictions enabled. No movies, no iTunes, nada.

We develop for business and government use. Our clients are choosing Android by 3:1 for this reason.

THAT'S RIGHT MOFOS !! EAT MY SHIT AND DIE !! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38885029)

That's right motherfuckers !!

Eat my rotten shit and die !!

Mine and not yours,
Steve 'From the Grave' Jobs

Apple needs to be more hardware and AIO hdd's (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | more than 2 years ago | (#38885065)

Apple needs to be more hardware and AIO hdd's need to be alot easys to get to the HDD all other AIO are easy to get to the HDD.

Some places need to be Multi vendor for the hardware WIndows runs on any hardware so apple needs to be a little more open at least have a desktop mid tower.

The mini is small and limited + it's harder then just about any other system to get to the HDD and next to other systems the price needs to come down at least $50 - $100 and the basic mini should have 4gb ram but for other stuff the MAC pro is over kill for people needing more power where you can get say get a dell OptiPlex for a $8000 or less that is better the base Imac + add the fact that in business screens get reused alot and AIO's are a poor fit.

Also that Less then $800 dell comes with a better CPU, 3 Year ProSupport with 3 Year NBD Limited Onsite Service After Remote Diagnosis, more video card choice, more CPU choice and ROOM FOR A 2nd Hard Drive.

Let's say you need a good system to do photo shop, cad and so on. You can pay $2500 for a system 3gb ram (to low for pro work) or you can get a good dell for $1200-$1500 with about the same CPU power, more ram, and lot's more video card choice.

Now apple needs a desktop system (non a AIO for $1000-$1500) it just way to much at $2500 to get a good non AIO desktop.

Apple laptops need better pricing and bigger screens at the lower end $1800 to get a 15" screen?

Who cares (1)

atari2600a (1892574) | more than 2 years ago | (#38885093)

We all know apple's the one that failed to adapt their enterprise offerings & is now dying in the sector because of that fact.
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