Super Bowl Bust: Feds Grab 307 NFL Websites; $4.8M 198
coondoggie writes "Speaking at a National Football League press conference ahead of this weekend's Super Bowl, the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency said special agents this week seized a total of 307 websites and snatched up 42,692 items of phony Super Bowl-related memorabilia along with other counterfeit items for a total take of more than $4.8 million – up from $3.72 million last year."
China (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:China (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm more interested in how much money was spend doing the seize. I could imagine that tax bill may exceed the ~$5 million depending on what equipment they bought and how many people they paid to track down/seize/value all the stuff.
Re:China (Score:5, Insightful)
and I'd like to know when the copyright, trademark holders will be getting a bill for the government's services.
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and I'd like to know when the copyright, trademark holders will be getting a bill for the government's services.
So could this be, "I'd like to know when the rape, murder and theft victims will be getting a bill for the government's services" when the perpetrators are captured??
Counterfeiting is a serious crime. There is no problem if someone makes "football" shirts or running shoes. There is a problem when you start to use someone else's brand to push your goods. That's illegal. It's akin of someone else using your name to get a mortgage on their house.
This stuff is done FOR PROFIT. This is not some fans stitching to
Re:China (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd like to know why any of you think it's important for the government to make a profit when it comes to law enforcement.
This retarded mindset is the reason we have speed traps everywhere.
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The businesses who OWN the government should reimburse taxpayers for its services to them.
Re:China (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd almost bet a testicle that the resources used to acquire these goods was far more than $4.8M.
Our taxes bought this trash on behalf of private industry---- why?
Re:China (Score:5, Funny)
What would you do with three testicles? Or did you lose a bet before? :)
~S
Bet a testicle for an Expert S-ex Change (Score:2)
(#38909999)
Congrats on quads.
What would you do with three testicles?
Perhaps someone is trying to gain or lose enough testicles to get an Expert S-ex Change done. Or maybe someone took one of the "is it low T?" commercials the wrong way.
Re:China (Score:4, Funny)
He's a Krogan.
Re:China (Score:5, Insightful)
Not that I support this kind of action, but it at least proves that bills like SOPA are unnecessary. Rights-holders already have a legal means to deal with infringers. It may be inefficient, but I think most slashdotters would agree that's preferable to the alternative.
Welfare (Score:5, Funny)
Waste of my tax dollars if ever there was one...
My imaginary conservative friend, who always displays perfect consistency in all of his opinions, is outraged that his tax dollars are being spent to defend private trademarks and IP. Trademarks belonging, moreover, to corporations that pay very little in taxes themselves. "What has happened to individual responsibility in this country?" he might be heard to exclaim. "Surely these firms could defend their IP monopolies themselves, without public assistance. I mean, this is the NFL! You mean to tell me they can't find a few hired thugs to show these pirates how not to do business?"
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Ha, ha. No. I promise you it's not just about actual counterfeits. [nfl.com] I know precious little about American football (and I have no intention of learning more), but one thing that is apparent is that the NFL, moreso than any of the other national sports leagues, is obsessive about controlling anything that might be linked to a team. If you want to show that you're a fan, either you made your memorabilia yourself, or you bought it from an approved vendor; there is nothing in between. No vague cultural links are
Re:China (Score:5, Insightful)
On a related note, I wonder if Slashdot paid for the rights to use the term "Super Bowl" - the NFL defends that term pretty vigorously. This is why places that have, for example, televisions on sale this week have signs up that say, "Get your new TV for the big game!" Grocery stores refer to food for the "big game" party. And so on.
The other day, I even heard a DJ on Sirius (satellite radio) saying he wasn't sure what he could say in regards to the game. The odd part is that Sirius will be carrying the game, so even within companies that ARE actually affiliated with the NFL, it's not clear.
And nobody made any more money... (Score:2, Insightful)
It's unclear what, if any, effect these seizures have on the economy.
Re:And nobody made any more money... (Score:5, Funny)
It's unclear what, if any, effect these seizures have on the economy.
Well I can tell you, there's a few ware houses and container ships which are probably going to have a little problem disposing of inventory which is still in the pipe.
Not to mention an end to my pursuit of an Official Super Bowl Batmobile Car Kit.
Mathematics (Score:5, Interesting)
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It would depend on what valuation they're using... fake tickets could easily be "worth" that (while in truth benig less valuable than the paper and ink seperately)
But yeah, something about that valuation is very fishy...
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Don't know where the heck you're sourcing your jerseys that they're $350, I got my NHL hockey team's jersey on sale for $75, they're regularly $120-150 depending on style and whether a player's name and number is stitched on.
Yes, they're official. They don't get any more official than the team's store in their own arena.
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Re:Mathematics (Score:4, Interesting)
When the DEA busts a grow house each plant is said to produce 1lb. So why would they not want to inflate prices to make it look good.
Re:Mathematics (Score:5, Informative)
I'm 120 miles north of the Superbowl, and the FBI paid a visit to our mall [msn.com] and cleaned out one store of their NFL merchandise as being counterfeit. A lot of what they took was jerseys. Authentic game jerseys MSRP for around $200 so I could see an average being around $100.
Re:Mathematics (Score:5, Informative)
I looked quickly at the nfl.com shop, and their jerseys are $89-$99, but they had jackets and coats that range from $100 to $200, and framed lithographs for $150.
I imagine that a counterfeiting organization might not just counterfeit logos, but possibly also signatures. Maybe there's a bunch of signed footballs in the group also.
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The $99 is the "replica" ones. "Authentic" ones are $130-200+.
"Replica" jerseys look mostly like real jerseys, but aren't quite. The fit is a bit different (they're not designed to fit over pads), as is the construction (slightly different material and stitching), and they drop some of the unneeded features, whereas "authentic" jerseys are what the players actually wear.
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No, it's 43K inventoried plus a bunch of cool extras distributed to friends and family.
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The 43k is only the items that were Super Bowl related, which may have been only a small portion of the total goods.
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I remember a news story not long ago where the DEA had seized 50 pounds of marijuana -- a street value of "about a million dollars". If you do the math, that means someone is selling grams of marijuana for forty five dollars. That's absurd -- that would mean that by weight, marijuana is worth about half as much as gold.
But, hey hey! You need to let the populace know that their tax dollars are being well spent!
Doesn't this prove... (Score:4, Insightful)
...that the curren laws are enough to fight counterfeits?
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...that the curren laws are enough to fight counterfeits?
Yes. Yes they are. But why not pass a whole boat-load more, just so the official outlets and suppliers are kept safe.
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The official outlets and suppliers are kept safe not just by the current laws, but by preferential treatment by the FBI as another posted noted [msn.com].
When you have the influence in government apparently you can get jackbooted thugs to come in and raid businesses for you.
Copyright law is not just unjust towards society and the consumer, it is not even enforced equally.
great use of our tax money (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:great use of our tax money (Score:5, Interesting)
No, it's probably more about low-hanging fruit.
Remember, when someone buys drugs they're buying something they generally know is illegal, same with the seller. Both have a personal interest in keeping the transaction as low-key as possible.
A purchaser of sports memorabilia is not looking to buy anything illegal. That means that the sellers of sports memorabilia in general are not low-key, and have to seem legitimate, which could open them up to investigation if the copyright and trademark holders do a good job of documenting the supply chain. Remember, many products have minimum costs per the resale agreement, and any price coming in under that price could automatically trigger a more thorough look. If one is counterfeiting memorabilia and is not aware of the minimum price, attempting to undercut legitimate resellers to drive sales could attract attention.
I know this because years ago I worked for a small business that did all manner of technology and equipment work. Among the company's offerings were OEM software products, and remember, the definition of OEM back then was loose enough that one could buy a copy of Office or Windows as an OEM product if buying a qualifying hardware product, which could mean something as cheap as a Microsoft mouse. Well, the owner of the small business found a supplier of Windows and Office that let him sell for really, really cheap, and he advertised. A few days later, an investigator on behalf of Microsoft stopped by. He and the owner talked, and basically the rep was willing to exchange all of our copies of everything we had bought for resale in exchange for being given the information on the party that sold us the software. It probably worked that way because we had about fifteen products, not exactly a mecca of commercial piracy. He collected the counterfeits, gave us real ones, and left with contact information. Before he left he explained the supply chain that Microsoft used to distribute, and how prices really never fell below a certain threshold for current products.
Back to this situation, if the real owners and producers of the licensed memorabilia have a supply chain with defined prices, it's easy to catch sellers who have unlicensed product if you just watch for their ads.
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Because one organization owns all of the intellectual property, and as the sole supplier they can dictate the price. Price-fixing is only illegal if there are multiple parties in collusion. A seller might even be able to sell for less than the price they paid for the merchandise, but they're not going to get a profit, and the supplier probably won't supply to them anymore.
Next time you get burgalized... (Score:2, Insightful)
Remember.. it is just your property that has been taken. It wasnt murder, drugs or anything violent.
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Sorry, but lost sales != theft.
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it has all the awesomeness of my original couch
That's not possible. What about the hidden Cheetos and that expensive remote under the cushions?
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This kind of counterfeiting is a lot closer to theft than piracy. I know the guy selling $5 Oakley's out of a shoebox on the street corner isn't selling authentic goods (although I have no doubt that some people really are that ignorant), but I may have no idea that my money isn't making it back to the claimed manufacturer in the case of somewhat cheaper-than-usual NFL jerseys. Chances are I was just trying to get the best deal but engage in a legitimate transaction. Counterfeiting isn't a lost sale so much
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It's CLOSER to actual theft, but I imagine it still lacks the sting of coming home to an emptied out house.
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know the guy selling $5 Oakley's
Does anyone really think that if there were no such things as counterfeit Oakleys or Louis Vuitton that the poorer people who buy the bootlegs would just save up and buy a several hundred dollar pair of glasses or purse?
It's not a lost sale, it's a non-existant sale.
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I welcome the day when burglars do not even break into my place and only make bad copies of my stuff.
Re:great use of our tax money (Score:5, Insightful)
Another way of looking at it... thousands of jobs have been destroyed
Thousands of criminal jobs...
so that the uber-rich NFL owners can snatch even more money from the commoners.
Those commoners are going to spend the money. Getting rid of the fake websites doesn't mean more people will spend more money, it only changes who they spend it with. Do you think it is better that they wind up with something that has no value should they ever try to resell it? You hate the rich so much that you'll throw your fellow citizen to the wolves who are making fake goods and selling them at real prices?
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>>Another way of looking at it... thousands of jobs have been destroyed
>Thousands of criminal jobs...
"Counterfieting" goods whose price is kept artificially high by equally artificial so-called "intellectual property" BS? My g-d, it's not even software, it's a goddamned COPY of a jersey used by an athlete on the field. The entire "value" is wholly artificially created scarcity and extraction of $ by market manipulation -- the actual good, unlike, say, a handbag design, costs maybe $2 to pro
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Well, that's an articulate response. May want to work on your professional demeanor.
But to return the sentiment, may you received a blow job from a prostitute with a combination of hepatitis and a porcupine tongue.
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Do your parents know you're on the internet past your bed time?
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Saw the video on the news. WTF is Homeland Security doing busting counterfeit NFL merch???
Securing potential profits for the owners of the "homeland," at taxpayers' expense.
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the common consumer knows that their $50 tshirt is a quality product and not some cheap knockoff
That's a weak argument. Quality can be the same. I think you would have made your point better with authenticity instead.
Not everything the government does is to support the 1%
Just 99% of what they do. While I can understand your point, are these actions being enforced equally for all intellectual property holders or just the ones who can afford to donate to campaigns?.
DigiShaman said it pretty well:
To the Feds, it's not about priorities. It's about taking action to justify their department and funding necessary to maintain the status quo (and then some). It's precisely why the go after the low hanging fruit first and foremost.
That's my biggest issue. The 1% is getting preferential treatment because they generate headlines in newspapers, magazine, and online news sources. The small b
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There's a fair chance of it being the very same items made in the very same factories, just after hours and off the books.
Supply Chain (Score:3)
There's a fair chance of it being the very same items made in the very same factories, just after hours and off the books.
If you've worked the supply chain you'd know that it's the norm everywhere you look
Vendor A put an order of 2 million jerseys, and somehow somewhere that order self-multiplied throughout the length of the supply chain
And in this worldwide distributed supply chain that we are having right now, it's uncommon that an order placed in HongKong will be sub-contracted to factories in China, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Nigeria, India, Vietnam ...
At the end, 2.5 to 4 million jerseys would be made and Vendor A will get th
Re:great use of our tax money (Score:5, Insightful)
Not to mention that apparently the Super Bowl is enough of a national treasure to spend tens of millions of dollars in law enforcement, but not enough of a national treasure that it belongs to the citizens of the USA.
So we all get to pay for protecting it but only a select few are allowed to profit off of it. More privatizing of profits while socializing the costs.
More bad news? (Score:5, Insightful)
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so true, so true...
so, can we have your liver, then?
Re:More bad news? (Score:4, Interesting)
Sorry, doing nothing but spending all your money and working is not enough to stop you getting sued or arrested for violating some random-ass law.
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Nope.
You are breathing (Score:2)
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Slashdot = nerd drama
Don't take it too seriously.
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Reading Slashdot every day is starting to make me wonder if I'm allowed to do anything besides spend all my money and work (for less) without getting sued or arrested for copyright, patent, counterfeiting, or violating some all encompassing do-what-I-say law.
This is why I only read Slashdot every other day. On my off days, I peruse the MPAA and RIAA news pages because I like reading about how everyone and their mother is stealing billions of dollars from them every day. It's not true, but it makes me feel like the 99% is winning, and it helps balance out all the pessimistic negative news you see here. And sometimes it's just plain funny [riaa.com]:
There is a near universal consensus that cracking down on foreign rogue websites is an important priority for the U.S. government. The Senate had an opportunity to have a national conversation about an important and urgent issue: protecting American workers and consumers from foreign criminals. It is a shame that the Senate will not have that debate next week.
This issue is too important, too vital to our economy, to let misleading demagoguery have a veto over meaningful reforms. Everyone, every intermediary in the Internet ecosystem, has a role to play and a responsibility to help. We have been told repeatedly that the tech community agrees that something needs to be done. We take them at their word, and continue to hope that we can sit down with responsible leaders from that community to devise a solution that will address counterfeiting and theft and, yes, bring the rule of law to the Internet.
They didn't even put a date on their news release. Know why? Because it's a timeless classic. They're going to use this for 10
Gone are the dreams... (Score:2)
Dreams of anyone who wanted a souvenir on the cheap, that is. Official stuff is $$$.
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In modern Rome, you hand over all your bread for the circus, or ware the centurion...
ACTA? (Score:5, Insightful)
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"Excessive law is no law" - Cicero [wikipedia.org]
There's more to the quote, generally talking about the criminalizing of all behaviors and making law useless. But the answer in itself is in the full quote. Funny how this was already discussed 2000 years ago.
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...when the laws themselves are kept secret from citizens
Here you go [mofa.go.jp]
Consider yourself warned, citizen.
Note that I believe the denial of the draft text due to "national security" was as bullshit as anything I've ever heard of, but now that it's signed, you can read it in all it's infamy
I voted for O but this would be the very high on the long list of things I would call him to the floor for if I ever got to speak to him.
Introducing the new War on .... (Score:2)
The new war on drugs. Wait till they take you down to see if that label on the back of your clothing is legit.
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You didn't rip off that tag on your mattress did you? Big brother has interests in your bedroom.
Just so you know, it is perfectly legal for the end-user to rip the tag off the mattress. The tag is only there for the middle handlers (e.g. wholesaler, retailer, etc). It cannot be legally removed until the customer receives the product. In this case, it is actually to protect the consumer by disclosing the materials used in the mattress, primarily "all new" versus "recycled".
The sad truth is that Big Brother is much more covert in its interests in your bedroom.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
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this year my daughter needs braces
Is her name Lisa by any chance?
this reminds me of (Score:2)
the olympics committee that go postal over anyone trying to edge in on their merchandising turf. But I suppose these are two of the biggest commercial events in the world. What are a few of the other lesser knowns that go to these lengths to protect their merchandising of the event? (I can kinda understand with the NFL, it's not about football as much is is about making money over football, but the olympics I feel should have a bit less greed in their heads)
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What ever gave you the impression that the OoOoOlympics (TM) was ever about anything but money? The day they figured out they could get people to PAY for the privilege to host the games it stopped being about money and started being about shitloads of money. And hats. And ski trips, and family jobs, and Stupor Bowel tickets, and scholarships, and geld. And almost certainly hookers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Winter_Olympic_bid_scandal [wikipedia.org]
And in case you were thinking of tossing a bid in the ring for y
One thing I always wondered ... (Score:4, Interesting)
What counts as counterfeit goods? They always offer up fairly big numbers to justify these raids, but they rarely offer up enough details for the public to judge the real value of what they're doing.
I'm bringing this up because I saw a news story that showed some counterfeit goods a few years ago. While some of them were pretty convincing, a lot of the stuff involved questionable cases of trademark infringement. One such example were batteries that used the colour scheme from a popular brand of batteries, yet everything else was distinguishable from the "genuine" goods (e.g. it went under a completely different product name). Claiming that they were counterfeit would be like claiming that Monopoly money was counterfeit.
At what cost? (Score:4, Insightful)
The feds spent $X to seize $Y of counterfeit goods that, if they entered the market, might have reduced NFL revenues by $Z.
Y >> Z is definitely true (the guy willing to pay $10 for the counterfeit, might not pay $50 for the authentic).
I seriously doubt X < Z.
The Obama Administration's Priorities (Score:5, Insightful)
Taking down domains without a trial, secretly negotiating international IP treaties (ACTA), threatening American ISPs into adopting a "six strikes" policy...
Judging by its actions, IP enforcement is clearly the Obama Administration's top priority. Is it corruption, or is it just plain disregard for justice and the due process of law?
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Terrible. Bush would never have done anything like this. ;)
Priorities (Score:2)
You know, add yourself to the list of people to monitor. Fuckfaces all around.
Too bad we have to use our real names...
ICE Correction (Score:5, Informative)
"Visitors to these websites will then find a seizure banner that notifies them that the domain name has been seized by federal authorities and educates them that willful copyright infringement is a federal crime."
Correction: Willful copyright infringement in the form of selling counterfeit merchandise is a Federal crime. If you are infringing copyright solely for personal use, the vast majority of the time there is no "crime" at all. It is a civil infraction.
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Correction: Willful copyright infringement in the form of selling counterfeit merchandise is a Federal crime.
As I recall, it was "profiting from copyright infringement", not just "selling counterfeit merchandise", and they got around it by saying that benefiting from the copyrighted work(s) was, in itself, a form of profit. (I.e., the "if you hadn't downloaded it you would have been compelled to buy it" fallacy.)
However, this is all second-hand. If you have a more authoritative source I'd be glad to see it.
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"As I recall, it was 'profiting from copyright infringement', not just 'selling counterfeit merchandise'..."
I think you are correct, but on the other hand I believe 99.9% or more of actual criminal copyright infringement involves sales.
To the best of my knowledge, nobody has made the theory that "downloading = profit" stick. As far as I know, you have to actually "make a profit", that is to say, material gain, from your infringement in order for it to be criminal. Also, it usually involves "mass" copying.
0.1% (Score:5, Insightful)
NFL revenue is about 4 billion. Clearly this is not a threat to their business.
The FBI needs to have it's budget cut if this is the best thing they can do. I mean 4 million is one SUV full of cocaine.
SOPA/PIPA (Score:3)
Yeah yea, the feds being bullies (Score:5, Insightful)
It's just a game. No more dignified then tiddlywinks, starcraft, or mumbley-peg. The NFL got the FEDS to bust up counterfeiters? For $4.8 million in loot? Really?
Come on guys, get a grip. I'd like to say that nobody cares how "your team" did, but sadly I can't. All I can say is nobody should really care. It's an activity that does not warrant caring.
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But what's more shocking is that this is done in the name of football
No, it's being done in the names of everyone in the country who actually run legitimate manufacturing and importing operations, and who don't rip other people off. This particular annual event stimulates a predictable wave of scams, thefts, counterfeit goods ... and the people who are involved plan for it. The rest of the year, they're doing other crap along the same lines. Busting them is a good thing.
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Ask the Romans what they thought of violent games in huge arena's.
When they start releasing lions and rhinos on the pitch during NFL games, I might actually start watching them.
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And this is why (Score:3)
It takes money to make money! (Score:2)
Thank Goodness (Score:2)
Banners (Score:2)
If you're wondering how many seized site banners there are out there, it's 11. Here they all are: DOJ Seized Domain Notices - Paul Nickerson - Picasa Web Albums [google.com]
My script found only 389 seized domains in total, and that should be over 465, so I'll try again in a few days and update the album.
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I think throwing money at a sports game and the genetic (or chemically enhanced) freak of natures (players) is a complete waste of money, but it's entertainment dollars, and I'm sure I spend that on other stuff that sports fans probably think is a waste of time in their opinion. Either way, it doesn't reduce the debt, doesn't feed the hungry, doesn't clothe the poor.
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You misunderstand. In Rome they had Bread and Circuses.
In America we have McDonalds and the NFL.
The ruling class messes with the circuses at their peril. They know the plebes need entertainment so that they remain docile and unwilling to rebel.
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Shouldn't they be, I dunno, doing Immigration and Customs Enforcement?
Well, if this merchandise was manufactured overseas (which of course even means Mexico), then seizing it is part of their job. I doubt they would have paid any customs tax. Even if this didn't fall under the scope of "customs", ICE does quite a number of things that you wouldn't think of just by looking at their name. They seize and return stolen artwork to Europe all the time.
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Perhaps I should have been more clear. I was referring to the sports streaming sites that were shutdown as part of this crackdown.
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What do you think "Customs" is? The "customs" part of their name comes from their job of regulating the import of goods into the country; the term comes from import taxes being part of the "customary revenue" of the English King, and thus not subject to Parliamentary approval.
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So much of what the government does is not tied to the name of the agency.
In Texas the Rail Road commission oversees Oil & Gas.
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At least quote it correctly.
"The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
2 more strikes and you lose your geek card.
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Since when did Federal law enforcement begin enforcing tort laws, and more importantly, how do I get the Feds to raid the guy down the street who's using my GPL code in violation of the license?
Well.. as much as I disapprove of the amount of money spent for such questionable gains, this does not fall under civil courts to my knowledge. It falls under the criminal infringement section of IP laws because of the scale of operation and the profit that was made. These were also physical items, not just 1's and 0's floating around in cyberspace.
IP laws do make a distinction for criminal levels, but it is quite rare to see them enforced since 99.9999% of all infringement should be remanded to the civil
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In simpler terms, it's actually written into the law that an entirely different law applies to offenses against you depending on how rich and powerful you are. If you're just a regular person, then offenses against you are just against you and you have to go yourself to civil court to seek justice in the form of limited monetary compensation. If you're big and powerful, offenses against you are offenses against the people, and the executive branch of government will take the vile offender to criminal court