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Canonical Pulls Kubuntu Personnel Funding

Unknown Lamer posted more than 2 years ago | from the not-kool-man dept.

Businesses 356

LinuxScribe writes "An announcement on the Kubuntu-devel mailing list tells the sad story: Canonical is pulling funding for in-house developers to work on the KDE-based Kubuntu flavor. Canonical now seems committed to its single vision of a GNOME-based Unity as a desktop and other Ubuntu flavors will now have to rely on community support and some infrastructure from Canonical."

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356 comments

Good (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951315)

Good, nothing against kubuntu, but it's no ubuntu

Re:Good (2, Interesting)

captainpanic (1173915) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951511)

They already come out with a new version every 6 months. The two different desktop environments was not necessary. And it's not like KDE stops to exist now. It's just that the newbies who are clueless will face less options.

Re:Good (4, Interesting)

Daniel Phillips (238627) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951815)

For me, Ubuntu stops existing right now. Oh the whole, I have had less breakage with Debian Sid, supposedly "unstable", and Canonical has just managed to push me over the tipping point: I'm going back to Debian (testing) on my primary machine as I should have done months ago. I am awfully tired of having to put up with Gnome bad idea of the week bogosity while waiting for Ubuntu to fix their broken, untested KDE packaging.

It stopped being amusing a long time ago. There is one reason, and one reason only that there is Ubuntu on this workstation: it came that way. Henceforth, Ubuntu will just be a way to establish which drivers (if any) the OEM configured, then *wipe* *wipe* install, install, there we go, blessed relief, it's not a hobby project any more.

Re:Good (5, Insightful)

inflex (123318) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951615)

Agreed.

While Ubuntu might have some issues that people are going to moan loudly about, remember, it's first job is to bring people into the Linux sphere, once they're accustomed to it, they can migrate out to other options if they feel they want to. Funding a parallel-but-different version is just encouraging the confusion. If there's one thing Linux suffers from in the eyes of the newcomer, it's too much choice, leading to confusion, subsequent frustration (with support) and returning to their hated-but-known Windows.

If we want cohesive desktop/apps then this is a reasonable move to make.

(I'm no fan of Ubuntu Unity, but I still use Ubuntu + Fluxbox instead :) )

Wat (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951747)

it's first job is to bring people into the Linux sphere, once they're accustomed to it, they can migrate out...

While Canonical still hasn't broken even, the business plan definitely isn't "build the noob linux to help people switch to another distro eventually".

Re:Wat (1)

Eroen (1563375) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951973)

Yet still they create a distro targeted excusively against people who are unable to edit configuration files, while simultaneously being almost unusable once you need to do something out-of-the-highway like compiling and installing some software outside their repos.

Re:Good (4, Insightful)

Daniel Phillips (238627) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951823)

While Ubuntu might have some issues that people are going to moan loudly about, remember, it's first job is to bring people into the Linux sphere...

I assure you that for most people, being brought into Gnome is just going to send them right back to Windows.

Re:Good (1)

inflex (123318) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951965)

I've got dozens of anecdotal data points that say otherwise... just like everyone else.

The discussion is about the problem of diluted consistency rather than that of actual effectiveness of the opted path. We can discuss that for eons with pointless non-results.

New interfaces aren't as scary if people have others around them experienced in the same thing to fall back on, and that's the idea, instead of "Hey Fred, I've got a problem with KDE" - "Oh hell, I don't know that, I use Unity" etc... else WinCE phones would possibly be the dominant force in the smart-phone market, since everyone knows Windows.

There goes the other leg (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951317)

When you've shot yourself in both legs... you're out of legs... Nice going Canonical.

Re:There goes the other leg (5, Funny)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951897)

they're an ass, so they have 4 legs.

and no hands. but they do have a big mouth.

Does it matter? (3, Funny)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951321)

From what I remember from Kubuntu, most of their tweaks to KDE just make it inferior to the vanilla version (for instance: you need to click the tabs in the launcher menu instead of just mousing over them, which is unpleasant). Is there any reason to use Kubuntu instead of just about any other KDE based distro?

Re:Does it matter? (4, Informative)

Svenne (117693) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951361)

Yes, for me, the reason I'm not using any other KDE based distro is because I want access to the awesome Ubuntu package repositories, as well as all the PPAs. I love PPAs, and apparently so does a lot of other users and developers.

Re:Does it matter? (2, Insightful)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951397)

You could use debian.

Re:Does it matter? (4, Informative)

pecosdave (536896) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951437)

The way Debian breaks stable with updates and leaves it broke? It's why I left Debian for Kubuntu to begin with.

Re:Does it matter? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951479)

The way Debian breaks stable with updates and leaves it broke?

[citation needed]

Re:Does it matter? (4, Informative)

pecosdave (536896) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951623)

Does this count? [slashdot.org] I'm also the GGGP on that. Sound chip doesn't work? It worked before they broke it and it's working now, I still have the thing, next to me, running.

Re:Does it matter? (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951501)

I hear that. The version mish-mash in Debian following every KDE upstream release was atrocious - mind you, that was several years ago, as I too, eventually jumped ship to Kubuntu. Things were better there, but the overall lack of polish, probably stemming from KDE's relatively low priority in the the greater scheme of all things Ubuntu made me eventually leave for OpenSUSE. I'm still using it and it remains a very nice distro for KDE fans.

Re:Does it matter? (3, Interesting)

pecosdave (536896) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951647)

I used to use testing before I got pissed off and went stable - which they broke also. The "going stable cram" made using Debian testing a waste. Even if you did manage to keep ahead of the crap they were breaking left and right in testing the rush before stable when everyone rushes in their half-assed packages will break your setup for sure, and it even bleeds into stable on occasion.

Really unless something has changed if I went back to Debian I would be very hesitant to do my security updates.

Re:Does it matter? (1)

pecosdave (536896) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951681)

BTW, I left classic SuSE (I was on it from 7.0 to about 10.04) and finally bailed. SuSE had a habit of releasing packages that had dependencies that weren't met in their repositories OR any of the third party ones at the time. Running SuSE back then was a nightmare and my RPM database went corrupt every six months or so.

Re:Does it matter? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951735)

Soon after its release, I tried for two frustrating hours to install OpenSUSE 12.1 on a work machine, first as an upgrade from 11.4, and then as a clean install: I even formatted the root partition, such was my zeal, in the hope of mounting /home once it was installed. No luck: I managed to get it to boot, but it would crash with cryptic errors as soon as KDE loaded. I lost interest, and rolled back to 11.4. I've read that it has improved since the initial "stable" release of 12.1, but really can't be bothered to burn more time on it. If I wanted late beta code dressed as a stable release, I'd use Windows. Note also that OpenSUSE has adopted Microsoft's shady tactic of calling their x.0 releases "x.1", apparently in an attempt to persuade the unwary that the product is stable.

Re:Does it matter? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951963)

actually I think .1 was suppose to mean "this is the first release" - totally non-obvious ofc, but considering that every release (ok, maybe not 11.3) has seemed problematic the first month or so (for some reason upgrading when they are about to seriously test the next version has given me the best result..) the change has had little impact for me (as I was already waiting with upgrading).

Re:Does it matter? (4, Interesting)

boorack (1345877) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951541)

Heh, this is the exact reason I've switched in other direction: from Ubuntu to Debian. After two failed upgrades to 11.10 (both resulted in unbootable system that requires tweaking to bring it back and then left me without true-and-tested classic GNOME desktop, I've happily switched to Debian which now provides some of the best parts Ubuntu developed in recent years. Debian 6 reminds me Ubuntu 8.04 which IMO was the best Ubuntu distribution ever released (in terms of stability).

Re:Does it matter? (1)

dokc (1562391) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951597)

I switched to Debian after 11.04. It was simply too annoying every six months to repair a previously stable system. And if you use ATI with fglrx (like I do) it was a nightmare.

Re:Does it matter? (1)

pecosdave (536896) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951665)

I had an nVidia problem with Kubuntu last week (or was it the week before?) My first serious problem in a couple of years.

Fortunately all my years of troubleshooting the issue on Debian and trying to make the directly from the website driver work when I first started on Kubuntu (and exercise in futility BTW) made it so I had it up and running again in no time anyways. It was an out-of order preparation for the new kernel.

I have a feeling the Unity backlash is going to do something to save Kubuntu, or at the least the Debian packages will work.

Re:Does it matter? (1)

dokc (1562391) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951903)

I had an nVidia problem with Kubuntu last week (or was it the week before?) My first serious problem in a couple of years.

Fortunately all my years of troubleshooting the issue on Debian and trying to make the directly from the website driver work when I first started on Kubuntu (and exercise in futility BTW) made it so I had it up and running again in no time anyways. It was an out-of order preparation for the new kernel.

Interesting. Problem with ATI is that they always push prerelease driver for new Ubuntu releases (because they follow 4 Month release cycle and usually the last driver is not ready for a new Ubuntu kernel). I really thought that NVIDIA drivers work out-of-box on both Debian stable and (K)Ubuntu.

I have a feeling the Unity backlash is going to do something to save Kubuntu, or at the least the Debian packages will work.

I'm quite sure Kubuntu will continue to exist as an independent Ubuntu flavor.

Re:Does it matter? (1)

pecosdave (536896) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951601)

My Toshiba Tecra A5 was at issue here. Originally they broke the firewire, after a long struggle I looked into a bug report, I found a note saying they were aware of the issue and were going to leave it that way. They said it only worked due to a "nasty hack" to begin with, the nasty hack was removed and it wasn't coming back.

Later on they broke my sound.

Mind you when I first installed STABLE it all worked. These were security updates that broke it.

I was worried Kubuntu wasn't going to be any better since it was Debian based, but no, they both worked. Seems like there was a third item involved, but I really can't recall at the moment. There were things about Debian I missed initially, Kubuntu felt like Linux on training wheels at first, but either it got better or I got used to it.

Re:Does it matter? (1)

JRiddell (216337) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951841)

"I want access to the awesome Ubuntu package repositories, as well as all the PPAs."

I hope and expect the Kubuntu community will continue to provide up to date packages fast

Re:Does it matter? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951379)

It comes with the whole Canonical infrastructure/support and the Ubuntu userbase. Made it much easier to troubleshoot problems.

Re:Does it matter? (4, Informative)

JRiddell (216337) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951833)

"(for instance: you need to click the tabs in the launcher menu instead of just mousing over them, which is unpleasant)"

we have a policy of having everything go upstream unless there is very good reason. I just checked and the issue you say is not true (now).

"Is there any reason to use Kubuntu instead of just about any other KDE based distro?"

We believe KDE to be the best technology and therefore way to take over the world. Other distros will fill in gaps in KDE's offering with non-KDE apps but we are much more reluctant to do that. If you are interested in having short term solutions go with other distros which ship non-KDE web browsers etc.

Re:Does it matter? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38952009)

Time to switch to mint or something else i guess.

Excellent business move (5, Interesting)

astropirate (1470387) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951327)

As a Linux user, I think this is a great business move on the part of canonical.. It is very important that we have choice software... but for Linux to success, the companies backing need to have a focus.

Re:Excellent business move (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951359)

I agree, and I have tried linux on the desktop, and would like to see it succeed but there are too many choices and options and the whole thing is just a big confusing mess. It needs way more simplicity and focus if it is ever to succeed for the average user.

Re:Excellent business move (-1, Flamebait)

epyT-R (613989) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951453)

go buy an apple already. thats the kidn of customer they cater to

Re:Excellent business move (0)

Theophany (2519296) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951701)

Excellent. Did you have your daily fibre before squeezing out that pearl of wisdom or just a stool softener?

If Ubuntu is to succeed then it needs a focused approach, a common starting point for new users. Start giving newbies a barrage of choices before they've even burned a LiveCD and you're just opening can after can of worms that will, in all likelihood, drive them to just pirate an MS license and be done with it.

Re:Excellent business move (4, Informative)

DrXym (126579) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951433)

Dists definitely need to have focus. Every dist should pick one desktop experience and core set of apps and stick with it through thick and thin. It makes for a more integrated experience, reduces administration headaches for people that deploy it and lowers support costs from having to build, test and develop against multiple configurations.

That doesn't mean other experiences are not possible. For example I use Ubuntu with GNOME shell and have even stuck Ubuntu with xfce on one netbook because those packages exist in the Ubuntu / Debian repositories so they can be installed and used instead of the default desktop.

Re:Excellent business move (4, Informative)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951741)

True, but their chosen focus wouldn't seem quite so silly is Unity didn't suck quite so badly. I gave it a shot ... I really did. It's a huge step backwards in usability.

Re:Excellent business move (1)

Daniel Phillips (238627) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951877)

Dists definitely need to have focus. Every dist should pick one desktop experience and core set of apps and stick with it through thick and thin...

It make for less choice. As far as I am concerned, distros should stay the heck away from "integrated experience". They just prove time and again that all they care about is a soapbox for their particular brand of bad taste. "Integrated experience" is a job for upstream, who actually care about what they are doing, are competent to do it, and work tirelessly to perfect the countless small details of how users actually use the system they develop. Distros should validate, distribute and provide timely updates. And that's it. They should stay the heck away from the user experience, it is not their competency.

Re:Excellent business move (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951529)

Yeah, I heard chicken farmers like the idea too, having all your eggs in one basket that is.

Re:Excellent business move (1)

ifiwereasculptor (1870574) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951593)

I think it's more about Unity being integrated with Ubuntu services, from where they plan to get revenue, than focusing. Because more important than discarding Kubuntu would be only releasing LTS versions. When I was a Linux newbie, the most frustrating thing was never finding instructions for dealing with bugs and updates that wouldn't work in a different DE, but outdated ones that no longer work in the current version. Since Debian moves things around so much and the internet pretty much archives everything, it's bound to happen. Also, it's better for software distributors, since their target would move around a lot less. Skype, for instance, is originally only packaged for Ubuntu 10.04.

Re:Excellent business move (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951673)

but for Linux to success

It's two words: "suck cess".

They can afford it thanks to Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951335)

Considering Microsoft is going the same route with 8 (i.e. tablet UI over desktop UI and a few big buttons for Joe Average over access to all that's on the computer) they can afford to focus on the horrid Unity UI. Not like there was any big competition left for a usable UI for anyone but tech-illiterate.

Re:They can afford it thanks to Microsoft (4, Interesting)

lordandmaker (960504) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951413)

I'm not really sure that Unity is a tablet UI. They've replaced a menu with a search box, do tablet UIs normally involve more typing and less pointing?

Re:They can afford it thanks to Microsoft (4, Interesting)

Captain Hook (923766) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951475)

typing on an onscreen keyboard is easier to find stuff vs multiple menus layers if you've got a low resolution screen with a finger sized pointer.

In that context Unity is a perfectly acceptable UI for touch screen devices. Doesn't change the fact that it's a terrible interface for traditional keyboard/mouse input.

Re:They can afford it thanks to Microsoft (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951733)

If they had redesigned the menu instead, they could have required far less areas to press than a onscreen keyboard requires for its keys...

Not going to write an essay on it, but Unity seems not particular well-adapted for either touchscreen OR desktop use.

Re:They can afford it thanks to Microsoft (1)

AvitarX (172628) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951959)

They certainly don't require hover events to get to UI elements, and Unity does in at least two situations (taskbar, and top menu).

Definitely not a tablet UI (yet). It was started as a small screen (netbook UI), which it's pretty decent for. I suspect it will be a decent full computer on a tablet UI, but never a great one (as it will not be tablet through and through).

Re:They can afford it thanks to Microsoft (1)

rmstar (114746) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951763)

Not like there was any big competition left for a usable UI for anyone but tech-illiterate.

Depending on how you define usable. If your definition is like that of most people - then I really do not understand why you are saying what you are saying. You can use xfce4, for example, and fluxbox, and a couple of others.

Mint 12 KDE (5, Interesting)

Rik Sweeney (471717) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951363)

Every time the subject of Ubuntu comes up on Slashdot I see a slew of comments complaining about how bad Unity is and what they've done to Gnome and how they're jumping ship for Mint I think "OK, so why not just use Kubuntu instead?", but now they've dropping funding for Kubuntu it looks like even more people will be moving over to Mint too.

I only update to the LTS versions of Kubuntu but if Precise is going to be the last one then why bother? Mint 12 came out a few days ago so maybe I'll just move over to that instead.

Re:Mint 12 KDE (4, Informative)

lordandmaker (960504) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951419)

Kubuntu's never really been a good way to use KDE. I don't have much love of KDE, but many people package it better than Ubuntu.

If what you want is old Gnome just use XFCE; Xubuntu in canonical-speak.

Re:Mint 12 KDE (5, Interesting)

dargaud (518470) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951439)

Yeah, I use kubuntu and set it up on every family member PC. It combines a standard UI (KDE) which isn't traumatic to ex-Windows users and the power of Ubuntu repositories. So I'm saddened by this news. I hope development keeps on.

Re:Mint 12 KDE (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951939)

Your family don't REALLY use their computers I take it.

Re:Mint 12 KDE (5, Insightful)

chrb (1083577) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951595)

Canonical have only pulled funding for one developer. Kubuntu, like all open source projects, will continue as long as there is a community behind it. It appears that Kubuntu hasn't been a commercial success for Canonical despite 7 years of funding. The KDE developer involved, Jonathan Riddell, deserves some respect for acknowledging this and recognising that this is a rational (and probably correct) business decision. I suspect quite a few developers would have reacted with anger at both being laid off and losing funding for their pet project.

Re:Mint 12 KDE (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38952035)

He isn't being laid off though, at least from what I've read he is just being re-assigned.

Re:Mint 12 KDE (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951771)

Every time I hear that someone says they're going to jump ship for whatever distribution I wish they just did instead of telling me they are going to. But then I would also like to know how did the switch go and was it worth it. I have tried many distributions only to find that behind the marketing fluff there is little substance. If Unity and Ubuntu is not your cup of tea then so be it. If Unity is freaking you out so much that you have to get out, please do.

Re:Mint 12 KDE (2)

qualityassurancedept (2469696) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951921)

As to the "why bother" question... I think you will get 5 years of support with Precise, which is a very long time. This is such long promise of support in fact that the changes in computer hardware will probably render the entire discussion moot by 2017/2018.

What a nuisance! (2)

Sussurros (2457406) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951389)

Just when I had settled on Kubuntu as my distribution after Unity and Gnome 3 ruined most of the others. Still, I've been using Lubuntu too and that is based on Ubuntu but nothing to do with Canonical and it's pretty good. Kubuntu could even become stronger and better for being cast loose. The more I think about it the more I think that this is definitely good for Kubuntu and possibly good for Canonical.

Makes sense (3, Interesting)

rapidreload (2476516) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951467)

It does make business sense to drop financial support for Kubuntu when you think about it. Ubuntu has been around for 7 years and Canonical still has yet to make a profit, so the purse strings undoubtedly have to be tightened so that the focus of attention can be put towards things that are more likely to succeed. It's not like they took Kubuntu seriously anyway - it was generally one of the least polished KDE distros available (though it has been getting better).

Having said that I think Ubuntu is mostly doomed anyway - even with this new tablet/TV angle Shuttleworth wants to get into, the fact he hasn't managed to expand Ubuntu's marketshare via OEMs preinstalling it on machines (with some rare exceptions) kinda tells me he is either really optimistic or really stupid. Red Hat gave up on the desktop and, but then again Red Hat never had Unity and disappearing global menus. Yeah, I'm sure that's what's gonna fix things to make Linux more appealing for mainstream users. :)

Re:Makes sense (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951629)

I just want to say that ubuntu is the first linux distro that makes sense for me. I have tried different distros before but have always been dismayed by how they just don't work and tweaking them just takes so much time. Ubuntu is the first one that comes with a lived cd/usb that is actually usable, because it contains a complete office suite and web browser out of the box. And I can expect to have a fully operational and patched up system in under two hours with my low speed internet connection. And when I do want to tweak something, google is my friend and generally finds how to do things. Unity actually works quite nice. There is a learning curve to it, yes. But as I grow older, I am rather starting to appreciate it. I don't want to search high and low for something. I know what I want and want the computer to tell me where it is, not hunt for stuff in all menus imaginable.

Re:Makes sense (2)

Kjella (173770) | more than 2 years ago | (#38952051)

Having said that I think Ubuntu is mostly doomed anyway - even with this new tablet/TV angle Shuttleworth wants to get into, the fact he hasn't managed to expand Ubuntu's marketshare via OEMs preinstalling it on machines (with some rare exceptions) kinda tells me he is either really optimistic or really stupid. Red Hat gave up on the desktop and, but then again Red Hat never had Unity and disappearing global menus. Yeah, I'm sure that's what's gonna fix things to make Linux more appealing for mainstream users. :)

Well, creating Ubuntu wasn't such a bad idea when it came to building credibility for Ubuntu LTS and trying to compete with RHEL and SLES in the server market. And at face value, it didn't seem like a bad place to be for when there's a "paradigm shift" that would enable other solutions, but they haven't manage to catch it. Amazon EC2 and others beat them on the cloud, Apple and Google beat them to ARM mobile/tablets with iOS and Android, perhaps the smart TV market is still open but I doubt they're in a good enough position. When it comes right down to it, they're still trying to go head to head with Microsoft and Windows, which is a giant held down by other giants like Office. Outlook/Exchange and a ton of proprietary third party software that Canonical is far too lightweight to push away.

Ubuntu is the New Mac (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951477)

The New Ubuntu is becoming increasingly less flexible. In Lucid 10.04, you could place the gnome-panels anywhere you wished. You could add icons and and even short cuts to scripts to the panel, and there were a whole bunch of panel applets that you could add.

Now, Ubuntu's new layout with a top panel and left launcher bar is so inflexible that you're stuck with what they give you. You could go with installing classic gnome shell, and/or install ccsm and turn unity off..... but if you do, look out, because when you copy files, don't even dare minimize the File Operations Dialogue, coz it will be gone forever. It;s almost as though Ubuntu punishes you for not using the Unity interface. Oh and forget mentioning this in any of their forums, because if you even imply that you don't like unity, prepare for some snooty feedback.

But the engine below the interface is pretty fantastic. I fell in love with Ubuntu from Lucid, because everything worked, and it was so flexible and customizable, and that suited my indecisive personality... now things are very mac-like... where everything works perfectly, but sort of comes with a sticker saying, don't change it too much, coz it's perfect the way it is!!

Re:Ubuntu is the New Mac (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951587)

I think the arrogant GNOME developers are the only ones to blame here.
If Canonical hadn't developed unity then the choice would be ... gnome shell.

Re:Ubuntu is the New Mac (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951679)

this is true... Unity is the lesser of two evils when placed side by side with the new Gnome-shell

Re:Ubuntu is the New Mac (5, Interesting)

HyperQuantum (1032422) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951797)

Ubuntu: combining the inflexibility of Mac with the hardware support mess of Windows.

Makes you wonder if this thing will ever get popular with mainstream users...

Re:Ubuntu is the New Mac (1)

ripdajacker (1167101) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951853)

I've noticed the exact same thing. Streamlining the interface surely isn't a bad thing, but giving up choice for eye candy just seems so... unlike linux.

Given that OS X is streamlined as hell, and all applications use the same gui library, they have a very consistent look and feel. Linux applications have a hard time achieving that since there's GTK and Qt as the two big contenders.

What I am trying to say is that the idea is a good one, but the execution has yet to prove its worth.

What next? (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951509)

Drop support for Ubuntu?

Alternatives? (1)

ralphdot (31877) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951535)

Oh, just great. So where to now? Stick with Kubuntu, move to Debian Unstable, or OpenSUSE? Since everybody seems to concur that Kubuntu's KDE is pretty bad, which one's actually better? I'd welcome suggestions.

Re:Alternatives? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951635)

openSUSE is great, Fedora's KDE spin is not bad either.

Re:Alternatives? (1)

lordandmaker (960504) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951641)

I've heard good things about Fedora and OpenSUSE's packaging of KDE, but my fondness for dpkg means I've not yet given them the chance.

Debian's seems less bonkers than Ubuntu's, but I'm not a KDE user so I don't know how much of that bonkers is KDE and how much is Debian's packaging of it.

Re:Alternatives? (4, Informative)

c0lo (1497653) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951757)

Since everybody seems to concur that Kubuntu's KDE is pretty bad, which one's actually better? I'd welcome suggestions.

try lubuntu [ubuntu.com] - finally something that feels human for a developer (boots and moves fast, easy to install/customize, good repos/updates - from Ubuntu. A desktop manager - LXDE - not maintained by Ubuntu)

Re:Alternatives? (1)

PReDiToR (687141) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951925)

I always wonder why there isn't more made of LXDE.
I found it years ago when I was using a 128MB P3 on Arch Linux.
Now it is my default desktop because there is no need for Akonadi, Pulse, Nepomuk, Strigi or any other crap that comes with KDE. If I want something flashy I'll switch over to E17.

I gave up on KDE a long time ago and found something that suited me and the way I work.

Maybe this latest change will shuffle a few n00bs off StarterLinux and onto a distro that suits them better.

Re:Alternatives? (1)

ripdajacker (1167101) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951785)

OpenSUSE packages KDE very nicely, fedora I haven't had running for some versions now, but last I checked (11 I think) it was working fine. Both better than Kubuntu, but both have yum instead of apt-get, and that's what kept me om ubuntu-based distros.

Debians packaging is as vanilla as it gets, so it's not that bad. There are some issues, afaik, with default file handlers and such, but nothing some tweaking won't fix.

Re:Alternatives? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951787)

Netrunner

http://www.netrunner-os.com/

Time to move off ubuntu (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951551)

Well, there it goes.
I've been using kubuntu for about four years now.

I HATE GNOME, and UNITY is an unmitigated disaster

I will look at Debian/Mint using XFCE, as I can't stand the bloat in KDE; but at least it is very usable, unlike GNOME.

Re:Time to move off ubuntu (5, Interesting)

jrminter (1123885) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951743)

Why not give Xubuntu a shot? Might be less of a headache. I just migrated to it from Mandriva.

Re:Time to move off ubuntu (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951953)

I HATE GNOME, and UNITY is an unmitigated disaster

Open Synaptic and install another desktop environment package. When you reboot, GDM will offer to log you in to Unity OR ${ALTERNATIVE_DE} .

Was that really so hard?

Bye bye Derivatives (2)

CFBMoo1 (157453) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951565)

I liked Ubuntu up until after 10.04. Now it's got some kind of tablet/smart phone infection that I wish it could get a shot for so it'd go back to the way it was. The worst part is it spread outside of Ubuntu in to Gnome. Well if Kubuntu doesn't float for lack of funding then there's always Xubuntu or Lubuntu. If those go then Mint will be the real shining star even more then it already is.

But did Canonical promote Kubuntu? (2)

Teun (17872) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951619)

I read that Kubuntu was not the success hoped for after the invitation in 2006.
But that's where part of the problem is, in recent years there was virtually no marketing for Kubuntu, for quite a while there is no more reference to the project on Ubuntu's front page .
As a desktop KDE is far more integrated than Gnome ever was and Unity will still be based on this disjointed approach.

Unity is a high stakes experiment by Mark Shuttleworth and is it that now he sees more and more users go over to the KDE desktop he feels his experiment is threatened?

Regardless, KDE development is not depending on Canonical and the Canonical infrastructure will still be available so we can continue to enjoy this very good distribution.

Re:But did Canonical promote Kubuntu? (1)

Daniel Phillips (238627) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951907)

The whole idea of Kubuntu is stupid. The package should simple be called "kde" and it should be installed by default, unless you say otherwise. Anything stranger than that and somebody is obviously pushing an agenda.

Re:But did Canonical promote Kubuntu? (1)

Teun (17872) | more than 2 years ago | (#38952029)

You think very lightly about interfacing and integration between the underlying OS and the desktop.

mint is cheering (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951643)

Its a shame, but it probably makes sense for them to do it financially. Canonical hasn't turned a profit in years and ubuntu has been bleeding users at a rapid rate as of late. There really is only one option for the desktop lately - Linux Mint. The new cinnamon desktop for mint is absolutely stellar. This is pretty much going to further isolate users and send them packing right into Mint's arms, bet they are happy..

Beginning of the end for KDE? (2, Insightful)

squoozer (730327) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951693)

I wonder if this is the beginning of the end for KDE. Sure it'll continue to be developed for years to come but without major backing it'll probably fade away like a lot of projects do. It's a shame, I feel KDE had much more to offer than Gnome but long term there could be only one winner and all the major players picked Gnome. Over all I think this is probably a good thing for Linux though, the war between Gnome and KDE has been a huge waste of resources and has massively hurt Linux adoption on the desktop. I really look forward to the day when the Linux desktop just works even if that means it's Gnome based.

Re:Beginning of the end for KDE? (3)

mattcasters (67972) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951937)

This has very little to do with KDE or the quality of KDE. I think Canonical simply sees too many people migrate from Unity to KDE so they distance themselves since it's not where they want to go.
I'll follow KDE to another distribution but I already have Ubuntu ppa's installed to automatically upgrade KDE to the latest stable versions so I don't know what the big deal is. When Canonical starts to actively block inclusion of packages like kde-desktop then I'll start to worry. In the worst case scenario I have a few hundred MB of worthless Unity/Gnome crap on my disk. I'll live.

Re:Beginning of the end for KDE? (3)

Daniel Phillips (238627) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951967)

I wonder if this is the beginning of the end for KDE.

Not at all, KDE has a huge presence in Europe, especially Germany, which by itself is enough to ensure it continues on happily forever. On the contrary, Ubuntu getting its clumsy claws out of the standard KDE package is no doubt the best thing that ever happened to KDE on Ubuntu.

But I'm still installing Debian stable :-)

Its a good thing (1)

rottenSoul (900240) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951721)

I went back to raw Debian. Most distos tell me rails 3 doesnt exist. debian says chrome & firefox doesnt exist
For me, they failed not having tcsh and rubygems.

KKTHNXBYEBYE thanks for the memories (2)

flytripper (2540266) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951795)

I just switched to kubuntu a few weeks back because of the state they put ubuntu in. I hate the new interface as its way too faffy. How am I supposed to advocate that for an OS? Now this!! :( looking for a new home.

Re:KKTHNXBYEBYE thanks for the memories (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951827)

BIG ISSUE!!!

Re:KKTHNXBYEBYE thanks for the memories (1)

Tapewolf (1639955) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951893)

Try Xubuntu. I've been using Kubuntu for years and years on my main machine, but all my new installations (on laptops etc) have been Xubuntu instead. Like for like it seems to be faster, and one of these days I may convert the desktop as well - especially if this event causes Kubuntu to implode. That would be a rather sad moment, though - I've been using KDE since 1.1.

About time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951805)

Kubuntu was always the poor cousin, so let it die. Other distros have much better KDE variants anyway.

Ubuntu gets increasingly useless (2)

jopet (538074) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951809)

It seems that Canonical has the stategy to exclusively target Noobs and people who use Linux for nothing more than using a browser. Unity and Co is absolutely unfit for professional or productive work.

It is time to change the distro in order to strengthen strategies that take care of people who need Linux to get some work done.

Re:Ubuntu gets increasingly useless (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951871)

I am hardly a noob and I emphatically find Unity fit for professional and productive use, thank you very much. Ubuntu with Unity definitely is a distro that takes care of people who need some work done in Linux.

Re:Ubuntu gets increasingly useless (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38952053)

> I am hardly a noob

No but you are a troll.

Unity is shite. Gnome 3 is shite. Ubuntu will soon become shite.

Thats ok (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951911)

I've pulled my funding for Conical when they forced me to use Unity

Not really bad news (1)

larppaxyz (1333319) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951915)

Since KDE 4.x, Kubuntu has been useless and even before that, there were way too many problems with default installation. There are other very good distributions that run KDE very well, openSUSE is one of those.

Just installed it! oh crap (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38951945)

Like a month ago regular Ubuntu decided to partially die. Unity went kaput, the wm was also dead, pretty much everything X related broke down. I started fixing each part until I got tired and returned to my old and trusty openSuse for a KDE experience (hadn't use it since the 3.x era). Big mistake, a lot of crashes, downloaded debug info to report them only to see they were reported to kde like a bizillion times before, repeated menu items, etc, etc etc.

Decided to try Kubuntu for the first time yesterday and I really liked what I've seen so far, and you also have those wonderful PPAs .... but these news makes me thing that investing time in the distro might not be a smart move. Too bad we are so invested on the *buntu brand. Anyway I will give the distro a chance to see how it goes, may be loosing some of Canonical's grip might help somehow. If everything fails ... well, you always have Debian.

Can someone remind me . . . (1)

bedouin (248624) | more than 2 years ago | (#38951949)

What compelling reason anyone has to use Ubuntu over Debian anymore? It used to be because the former was supposedly more user friendly, but that doesn't seem like a compelling argument nowadays when even Debian has a GUI install and autodetects most stuff.

Not surrprising (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38952047)

Kubuntu is competitor to their "besf of breed" Unity crap.

That said, name one KDE distro that actually works?

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