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Hackers Hit Apple Supplier Foxconn

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the take-it-down dept.

China 193

wiredmikey writes "Protests against Apple and Foxconn due to furor over reports about working conditions have gone digital. A group known as SwaggSec has successfully hacked computers at Foxconn, and posted the stolen data to The Pirate Bay website. News of the hack comes as protesters paid a visit today to Apple stores around the world to deliver petitions demanding the improvement of working conditions at factories run by Apple suppliers in China and other countries. In response to the attack, Foxconn reportedly took down a website that explains the services it offers to some of its partners, including Apple, Cisco and Acer."

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Apple and Foxconn (5, Informative)

bonch (38532) | more than 2 years ago | (#38989957)

I made this point in the last article [slashdot.org] : Foxconn is the world's largest electronic producer and is outsourced by Dell, HP, Microsoft, Google, Sony, Nintendo and more. Not only is it completely ineffective to hand a signed petitions to some Apple store manager in an attempt to influence the working conditions of an internationally traded public company in China, it also gives a pass to every other computer company who uses Foxconn. Remember that the last article said that Apple was the best about being proactive about labor conditions...so where are the protests against the companies that aren't? Where are the demonstrations against the Chinese government? It's not like Tim Cook can make a phone call and change the entire Chinese business model. There are all kinds of factors at play between the Taiwanese management of Foxconn and the Chinese labor it employs that foreign companies have no power to change.

On a related note, the NY Times published an interesting article on why the U.S. lost out on iPhone work [nytimes.com] . For most big electronics companies, it's simply not economically viable to manufacture here in the States.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (0, Troll)

QuasiSteve (2042606) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990027)

You sound an awful lot like David Pogue.

Which means that for karmawhoring, people should just copy/paste the comments to his blog at the NY Times, explaining why people target Apple.

http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/09/the-dilemma-of-cheap-electronics/ [nytimes.com]

In summary: Because Apple has the most exposure. It's kind of like if John Doe, Jane Smith and Lady Gaga shopped at a clothing store whose clothes come from sweatshops, and complaining that everybody is focusing on Lady Gaga. Whether or not that is actually more productive than if they treated all of the players equally in these matters is another discussion, albeit a predictable one.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (4, Informative)

CharlyFoxtrot (1607527) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990097)

Except Apple are actually doing better than others and are getting punished for it :

"Labor Activist Li Qiang wants you to know that the iPhone 4 in his pocket is not an endorsement of Apple’s policies, just an acknowledgement that the company is doing a better job of monitoring factory conditions than its peers. The founder of leading advocacy group China Labor Watch (CLW) told us that, though the Cupertino company does more-thorough inspections than competitors, it is responsible for poor working conditions at its suppliers’ factories and needs to invest some of its record-breaking profits in improving them."

That's dangerous. Why do better if you're going to be taking heat for it anyway ?

Re:Apple and Foxconn (2)

QuasiSteve (2042606) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990149)

Because people...
A. Are unaware that they're doing better than others.
B. Are aware but think Apple could still do even better and fall back to the previous arguments of why Apple makes an excellent 'target'.

Compare this to Nike. Nike still gets most of the flak even though they probably do much better than a random other brand of 'sports' shoes. Fair? Nope. Fallout from being the obvious choice thanks to your success? Yup.

As for why you would do better... good question. Why?

But somehow I doubt that Apple are just going to throw up their hands, say "there's no pleasing this crowd", and go back to circumstances as they were before they told the factories/suppliers to do a better job the first time around. So I guess they, at least, have the answer to 'why'.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (3, Interesting)

JWSmythe (446288) | more than 2 years ago | (#38991183)

    I believe Apple is being targeted, because they just reported record profits. Profits, mind you, are largely because of the business practices at Foxconn. If they couldn't sell a $5 iPad for $500, their profits wouldn't have been so large.

    I'd rather see the manufacturing jobs moved to where the consumers are. If the 40% of the users are in the us, 40% of the devices should be manufactured here. It makes sound economic sense. Instead, these companies prefer to manufacture in the absolutely cheapest places possible, disregarding what would be human rights violations here in the US. In the end, the blame is with the consumers. They are happily spending too much money on a name brand, when they know what business practices are in place.

    I only mention Apple, because you did. Unfortunately for the consumer, right now it's near impossible to find quite a bit of merchandise that was manufactured in their own country.

    The only argument that can be made for keeping these jobs offshore is, they can do it cheaper. There's no way you can find American workers who can afford to work for $20/mo. You'd be hard pressed to eat on $20/mo, much less have a place to live.

    Companies should be looking at being economically responsible, rather than admiring their record earnings. There's no prize for doing so though. If you turn higher profits, your share holders make more money, and your stock prices climb. If you just break even, your company won't have an excellent growth forecast, and that doesn't play well on Wall Street.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38992139)

Where does $20 per month come up? The average Chinese wage is something like $20 per day now, certainly at least for College graduates. Granted that's lower than the US (for now, he he), Japan, and most of Europe, but it's rising steadily.

The problem isn't so much that workers in the US can't do it, but that they are spoiled and they don't want to. Sending stuff offshore costs money. Dealing with different companies costs money. Shipping things around the globe costs money too - all of which means that people won't farm work to China or somewhere else just because it's slightly cheaper - it has to be a *lot* cheaper.

But US workers think it's their "right" to earn $25/hour for labor jobs that don't require a college degree or any advanced vocational training - and they use Unions to enforce this. When it costs $25 per hour to get someone to run a wire, or $25 per hour to get someone with 2 month's training to operate a screwdriver to put car doors on, something's wrong. Unions were probably necessary at one point when the companies had way too much bargaining power, but now the Unions have a monopoly on labor, and can demand well above natural market rates. The US can only lose from that in the long term.

As for " disregarding what would be human rights violations here in the US." Yeah, the US has not always had the same standards they do now, and some of them seem absurd to the rest of the world. There is no reason a 16 year old shouldn't be able to work if they want to. There is also no reason people shouldn't be allowed to work overtime if they want to. Some people would kill for more overtime, and then human rights groups come in and say "no, you can't do that".

I do believe that they should improve safety standards, but what is a reasonable cost/benefit trade-off to Americans is not yet reasonable in China or India. The best way to change that is to let them continue to make money.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (2)

bryan1945 (301828) | more than 2 years ago | (#38992545)

"If the 40% of the users are in the us, 40% of the devices should be manufactured here. It makes sound economic sense."
That makes absolutely no sense. A company exists to make money, not enforce social policy.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38992921)

fuck off, you corporate bootlicker

Re:Apple and Foxconn (1)

EdIII (1114411) | more than 2 years ago | (#38992945)

Which is why society needs to get together and force them to do it.

At the rate the US is cratering in education, infrastructure, manufacturing know-how, research, etc. all that is left is the bullshit that Hollywood produces. We call that Intellectual Property.

In order to protect IP, we are bullying the rest of the world to adopt copyright laws and frameworks that are quite frankly insane and damaging to society.

It's not isolationism or discrimination to put tariffs in place that are designed to make it just slightly more expensive to purchase an imported product. It's just good sense if what you cared about was the long term health of your country and your people.

If you think I am wrong, then please explain to me how we are not doing that bad. Not companies, but people. Explain how allowing companies to outsource everything is good for people in the long run. Please avoid the bullshit explanation that people could invest and be shareholders.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38991983)

Compare this to Nike. Nike still gets most of the flak even though they probably do much better than a random other brand of 'sports' shoes. Fair? Nope. Fallout from being the obvious choice thanks to your success? Yup.

As for why you would do better... good question. Why?

Heh...obviously you haven't ever bought New Balance shoes. Not all (meaning their FANCY shoes) but some models are made in the states. Plus, as a runner, their low-end shoes are better than Nike's high-end.

Not better: Influential. (4, Interesting)

fyngyrz (762201) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990191)

They're not taking heat for doing better. They're taking heat because they're the most influential. Hence, they are the natural vector if one wishes to impose one's will upon a client company of theirs.

Quite aside from that, there are a lot of ways this can go wrong: I hope no one actually thinks that because these people are being compensated in a particular manner, that they don't deserve to have those jobs. Because that is a real potential of complaining about sweatshops, etc... instead of a few bucks in their pockets, the workers can end up outside a shuttered business, jobless, hungry and worse.

It's always dicey when the citizens of one country decide they want to "do something" about working conditions in another country. It's never a matter of "just fixing things." There are economic balances at work, and no matter how good one's intentions might be (I should qualify that as by one's own lights), odds are good that damage will be taken by the very people who are the target of the "help."

Re:Apple and Foxconn (1, Troll)

causality (777677) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990325)

Labor Activist Li Qiang wants you to know that the iPhone 4 in his pocket is not an endorsement of Apple’s policies, just an acknowledgement that the company is doing a better job of monitoring factory conditions than its peers.

It is absolutely an endorsement. These issues are so much easier if we can get past this kind of "not really my fault!" double-talk.

I'll give a probably terrible analogy. Maybe you didn't intend to stub your toe. If anyone had asked, you would have said that your intend was to avoid the obstacle on the floor and not to stub your toe on it. You meant well; good enough. But you did stub your toe and you can try arguing with your toe that it wasn't your intention, but it's not going to instantly remove the pain.

Folks, whether you really intend it, or whether your ability to understand cause-and-effect ends only with "I want this thing so I'm buying it" and your vision extends no further, I can tell you one truth: anytime you patronize a business, you are implicitly endorsing and approving of its products, business practices, policies, and staff. Buying their products and/or services is your way of telling them that what they're doing is great and that they deserve to be rewarded for it. It's a more powerful statement than any letter you could write or phone call you could make.

Of course most people don't care and can't be bothered to care. This labor activist, however, is placing himself in the group who do care. That's why he's contradicting himself (or not being fully honest) by saying "it's not an endorsement". The whole "everyone else is doing it" or "others are worse" is the kind of excuse grade-schoolers are told is not valid. If you really had a problem with the business practices of all smartphone manufacturers, you would get a feature phone. Li Qiang's statement there is simply lip service designed to be as inoffensive as possible.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (1, Troll)

stephanruby (542433) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990717)

That's dangerous. Why do better if you're going to be taking heat for it anyway ?

Bribing an activist with an iPhone 4, or beating up a worker [foolsmountain.com] to control the news, is hardly what I'd call "do[ing] better".

Re:Apple and Foxconn (2)

CharlyFoxtrot (1607527) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990844)

Bribing an activist with an iPhone 4

Where did you get that from ?

or beating up a worker [foolsmountain.com] to control the news, is hardly what I'd call "do[ing] better".

That was an action taken by Foxconn. You can't hold Apple responsible for the actions of all its suppliers. The economics dictate Apple goes to China, just like all its competitors, it chooses the best of a bad bunch (Foxconn) for its supplier, then it tries to improve matters by pushing for better inspections and monitoring than its competitors. How's that not doing better ?

Re:Apple and Foxconn (1)

Graff (532189) | more than 2 years ago | (#38992295)

Bribing an activist with an iPhone 4, or beating up a worker to control the news, is hardly what I'd call "do[ing] better".

Did you bother to click through to the actual "article"?

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2009/07/21/reports-of-suicide-in-china-linked-to-missing-iphone/ [wsj.com]

It's a blog that's very light on any verifiable facts and instead uses unattributed reports:

Some publications reported that, in the days prior to his suicide, Sun had been detained and beaten by a senior official

So you linked to a blog about a blog that uses treats terms like this as facts with nearly no direct reporting or attribution:

  • "News media in China"
  • "Some publications reported"
  • "some reports quoted"
  • "Some English-language blogs"

I suppose that I have too high of standards for this day-and-age of blog rumormongering...

Maybe this incident occurred, maybe it didn't. Maybe Foxconn is evil, maybe it isn't. Maybe Apple is responsible, maybe it isn't. We'll get any meaningful answers if all we have are rumors and unsubstantiated aspersions!

Re:Apple and Foxconn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38991361)

Because they sell themselves on image, so it would only make sense that their customers demand they keep up a certain image lol.
The same people who care about what kind of phone they are seen with also care about making others think they are concerned about world matters.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (1)

wrencherd (865833) | more than 2 years ago | (#38991101)

It's kind of like if John Doe, Jane Smith and Lady Gaga shopped at a clothing store whose clothes come from sweatshops, and complaining that everybody is focusing on Lady Gaga.

Not really. It would only be sort of like that if (1) John Doe and Jane Smith were also in the business of becoming celebrated recording stars, and (2) buying clothes at the store you've described guaranteed cd sales and profits on those sales.

Then you might be on to something; as it is, Dell, Acer, the entirety of the US auto industry, Sony, Toshiba, etc, etc. aren't at all like John Doe and Jane Smith.

Apple gets singled out (4, Insightful)

alvinrod (889928) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990029)

Apple gets singled out a lot now, not because there's some new Apple bashing trend, but merely because they're now the largest and one of the most influential tech company on the planet. If this story were written in the 90's, the headline would be changed to work in Microsoft somehow. It's mostly just an attention grabbing mechanism as Foxconn alone doesn't have that kind of name recognition, but pretty much everyone is aware of Apple. Also, even if people despise the company, they might be interested in an article that makes it seems as though Apple's in trouble.

Re:Apple gets singled out (-1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990111)

Apple gets singled out a lot now, not because there's some new Apple bashing trend...

Bull.

Re:Apple gets singled out (2, Informative)

Macgrrl (762836) | more than 2 years ago | (#38991425)

To be fair, the Apple bashing trend isn't new. I remember the early '90s as a time of spirited Apple bashing. It was a fairly well established meme even then.

Re:Apple gets singled out (1, Troll)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 2 years ago | (#38991729)

I remember. I had a friend in high school whose favorite phrase was "really? It just works on a Mac!" We all wanted to flick him on the back of the head. That might have happened, too, if he hadn't gone and gotten a hot girlfriend while we were busy trying to figure out how not to be Bud Bundy.

I don't give a shit about the bashing. I'm just sick of the posing. "Oh, well, Apple should be the ones to fix this because some guy with a fashionable haircut scoffed at my phone."

Meanwhile there was a story about how Foxconn workers that assemble XBOX 360's threatened a mass suicide if conditions didn't improve. This story did not make it to Slashdot. If it had, then not only would the problem there get more air-time, but hey we could give Microsoft a black eye too, right? Nah, smartphone OS's are fashionable right now.

Apple fans are obnoxious people, that doesn't excuse Foxconn or even China for things working that way.

Re:Apple gets singled out (1)

toolo (142169) | more than 2 years ago | (#38992451)

It was a non story. They were probably being moved to the Apple line and were pissed :-)

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/microsoft-foxconn-say-dispute-in-china-resolved-2012-01-11 [marketwatch.com] .

The software giant said in a statement that the protest erupted over "staffing assignments and transfer policies, not working conditions" at the facility, where Foxconn reportedly manufactures the Xbox game console. Redmond, Washington-based Microsoft said workers at the plant manufactured hardware products but didn't specify which ones.

In a separate statement, Foxconn said about 150 workers staged a protest after the company announced all workers in their business unit were being transferred to another unit within the Wuhan manufacturing campus. Foxconn described the change as "a shift in production lines."

Re:Apple gets singled out (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38990625)

Apple has billions of dollars. Why don't they throw a few bucks at their employees/contractors? Are they cheap? Are they mean?

Who would buy stuff from a cheap, mean company?

Re:Apple gets singled out (2)

rtb61 (674572) | more than 2 years ago | (#38991111)

More importantly if Apple really believe in their products why aren't they making them themselves. Why are they relying upon 'disposable' manufacturing services, does Apple believe it's products are crappy and the need to be able to abandon them at the drop of a hat if the iFad collapses.

Let's see some commitment from Apple and manufacture of their devices where they are bought not where they can not be afforded as they represent around a year's salary at that location.

Re:Apple gets singled out (1)

bryan1945 (301828) | more than 2 years ago | (#38992573)

Because they are in the business to make money, not to push some political/social policy.

Re:Apple gets singled out (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 2 years ago | (#38992885)

And therein lies the problem with society today... Businesses are selfish and short sighted.
If every business works hard to improve efficiency, cut back on expensive staff and replace them with robots, outsource labour intensive activities to cheaper countries etc...
The end result, is huge unemployment in the home country of that business, so then who buys your products? Those people in the country you outsource cheap labour to can't afford to either.
Short term profit gains, leading to long term economic collapse.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38990037)

Well, I, for one don't buy anything which comes from Foxconn. No Dell, no HP, no Microsoft, no Nintendo, etc. Before buying something I check where and by who is made.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38990913)

Well, I, for one don't buy anything which comes from Foxconn. No Dell, no HP, no Microsoft, no Nintendo, etc. Before buying something I check where and by who is made.

Lotsa luck with that. In the world of manufactured goods, you get a small choice of brands to choose from, since they've long since eaten all their smaller competitors. So right off, the ability of "The Market" to choose gets nuked. All you can try for is the lesser evil. Then, even if the primary manufacturers aren't evil, they'll be subcontracting to a shared pool of large secondary manufacturers who are, and you (and The Market) have spit to say about it.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38992083)

Really, so who do you buy from? Fuck, my old Amiga 2000 has Foxconn parts in it.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38992249)

Well, I, for one don't buy anything which comes from Foxconn. No Dell, no HP, no Microsoft, no Nintendo, etc. Before buying something I check where and by who is made.

So you buy stuff manufactured in far worse conditions that anything a Foxconn employee faces.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (4, Informative)

CharlyFoxtrot (1607527) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990065)

"Though he [Labour activist Li Qiang [laptopmag.com] ] believes that Apple has done a better job of inspecting its factories than others, Li maintains that the public is right to put more pressure on Tim Cook’s company than its competitors who have the same problems. Because Apple makes the most profit, he reasons, it also bears the most responsibility for fixing a broken system."

You may do a better job than other, but you've got deeper pockets so prepare to be punished.

"“Foxconn is not good,” Li told the New York Times. ”But if we compare all industries, electronics, textile, toys, Foxconn is one of the best.”"

They're not even attacking the right supplier, just the one that's connected with the most high profile name so they can get their mug in the papers.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (1)

LordNimon (85072) | more than 2 years ago | (#38991275)

Because Apple makes the most profit, he reasons, it also bears the most responsibility for fixing a broken system.

Some people will call me a liberal, but I believe this wholeheartedly. Look at my signature. The people who are most capable of fixing a problem ("hold high places") must take the initiative to fix it. Is this the same thing as punishing success? I like to think that being able to help the less fortunate is a reward of success.

Economically Viable (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38990083)

it's simply not economically viable to manufacture here in the States.

'Falling Down' when your not economically viable [youtube.com]

Re:Apple and Foxconn (-1, Troll)

pankkake (877909) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990089)

I find it highly fishy that this comment was the first comment, published at the same minute as the news itself (can we have the seconds?), and yet was already +5.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (4, Informative)

fyngyrz (762201) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990227)

Perhaps if you took a little time and learned how slashdot actually functions, the smell of fish would resolve itself as being actually the smell of your own ignorance. Those articles are visible before they are published in several ways, some paid, some not. It's trivial to prepare a response ready to go when an article goes live. If you pay attention. Or, you can wallow in conspiracy theories. Ball's in your court.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (1, Flamebait)

Rockoon (1252108) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990411)

You explanation makes sense..except that it was already +5

Re:Apple and Foxconn (-1, Troll)

pankkake (877909) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990429)

Actually, I know how Slashdot works.
No need to act like a dickless asshole in your response though.

> It's trivial to prepare a response ready to go when an article goes live.
That was actually what I was implying. If true, this show how desperate this fanboy is.

> Or, you can wallow in conspiracy theories.
That's an easy insult, but how would you explain a +5 that soon?

Re:Apple and Foxconn (0)

fyngyrz (762201) | more than 2 years ago | (#38991309)

hat's an easy insult, but how would you explain a +5 that soon?

Again, because I know how slashdot works. (a) Site luminaries have unlimited mod points and (b) there are many moderators at any one moment, and (c) when a story has few posts, the mods are all looking at the same few posts. The end results is that you can go to +5 from -1 in about 1 second. Why it happens is the usual combination of fortuitous action, people with opinions they see confirmed, etc. The exact same reasons that all other moderation is performed.

Look, honestly, slashdot moderation doesn't work very well. Don't make it a reason to do or think anything. Just read the posts and respond to the content therein. That's what makes for the most interesting conversation anyway.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (1)

fyngyrz (762201) | more than 2 years ago | (#38991325)

It's trivial to prepare a response ready to go when an article goes live.


That was actually what I was implying. If true, this show how desperate this fanboy is.

Sigh. No, it doesn't. It shows that he had as much as 45 minutes to create a post, perhaps even a thoughtful one. That's all it shows.

That didn't take long (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38990095)

I was wondering how long it would take the Apptards to come out and defend Apple from being held to reasonable workplace standards. The answer: the first post.

Congrats, bonch, you're king Apptard. Wait, I recognize that name. You really are an Apptard. You really should get your head out of Job's ass, there's no way that's healthy.

But you already know why Apple gets targeted:

They're the largest Foxconn customer, and therefore have the most power to improve things. And they constantly refuse to, instead saying that the ability to wake workers up in the middle of the night to send them to the production lines is one of the "main benefits" of working with China.

But, go ahead, claim that it's just mindless Apple hate, not the very really fact that Apple is the largest customer and the fact that they constantly refuse to do anything to improve their worker's lives.

Re:That didn't take long (1)

Macgrrl (762836) | more than 2 years ago | (#38991441)

They're the largest Foxconn customer, and therefore have the most power to improve things.

Are they actually Foxconn's lagest customer, or simply their most visible? I would have though Dell would have been bigger given the size of it's corporate market. Do you have any stats?

Re:Apple and Foxconn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38990133)

Well, people that use petitions are idiots.

When you petition your government, it's your right as a citizen. Get enough signatures, and you can get them to do something about it. If you make a petition and forward it to some company, they'll simply think their marketing department is crap. They don't have to do anything about it. The only way a corporation can be forced to act is by getting the government to force them, or by using your wallet.

Anyway, I see people all the time, going from shop to shop just to get a discount for a few bucks, often hours at a time. They'll probably go insane when those changes start and will need to shell out an extra $50+ for their iThing.

Hey, I don't mind, the way I see it, we'd pay more, but that money would stay and circulate inside the western countries, instead of China.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (4, Insightful)

girlintraining (1395911) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990139)

it's simply not economically viable to manufacture here in the States.

As long as we continue to allow imports of materials covered in the blood of the workers who produced it, then yes, it will remain "not economically viable". Should we suddenly have an outburst of compassion and decide to ban such imports, I imagine it will magically become economical again to manufacture here. Also.. you're only getting about a 10% discount when you buy products produced by sweatshop as opposed to regulated and safe working conditions.

And let's be clear: The product you're buying isn't essential to your livelihood. It is a status symbol and a material comfort. Is that 10% really worth it? There are some standards that we should not compromise on: We should not allow business with companies or countries that have to place nets on and around their buildings to catch people committing suicide because of it's poor working conditions.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38990543)

it's simply not economically viable to manufacture here in the States.

As long as we continue to allow imports of materials covered in the blood of the workers who produced it, then yes, it will remain "not economically viable". Should we suddenly have an outburst of compassion and decide to ban such imports, I imagine it will magically become economical again to manufacture here. Also.. you're only getting about a 10% discount when you buy products produced by sweatshop as opposed to regulated and safe working conditions.

And let's be clear: The product you're buying isn't essential to your livelihood. It is a status symbol and a material comfort. Is that 10% really worth it? There are some standards that we should not compromise on: We should not allow business with companies or countries that have to place nets on and around their buildings to catch people committing suicide because of it's poor working conditions.

Thats not for Apple to decide. A company will (AND SHOULD!!!) always find the most cost-effective (yet legal) way to meet an end (short of compromising design or manufacturing goals). Thats the responsibility the company has to its shareholders.

If Apple all-of-a-sudden decided to "be ethical" and manufacture in the good ol' US of A, then arguably, that 10% cost makes them less competitive than their rivals. Go to any business school instructor/professor and ask him/her to explain to you "competitive advantage". If you want business practices changed on an industry, don't attack the most successful, because they are trained (through positive feedback) that their methods produce desirable results (like Apple's most recent quarterly result). Instead, talk to your law-maker and make sure that the US sanctions foreign countries that make goods that don't meet our ethical guidelines for GMPs (good manufacturing practices). Then everyone has to play on the same field and no one falls behind on the "competitive" scale.

My $0.02

Re:Apple and Foxconn (1, Insightful)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990804)

Thats not for Apple to decide. A company will (AND SHOULD!!!) always find the most cost-effective (yet legal) way to meet an end (short of compromising design or manufacturing goals). Thats the responsibility the company has to its shareholders.

Pure and textbook sociopathy.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (0)

sgt scrub (869860) | more than 2 years ago | (#38991137)

Yeah! They are a business. Companies like Foxconn should put up video cameras next to the nets and charge people for footage when an employee jumps out the window. Maximize those opportunities!! [/snark]

Re:Apple and Foxconn (4, Insightful)

alexgieg (948359) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990784)

Is that 10% really worth it?

Those Foxconn employees chose to work there because, to them, it's much better than working in the alternative business, namely, very dirty and very poor 4th world level farming. If big companies all around started refusing to work with Foxconn, it'd shrink, laying all that people off, back to the farms, to die of diseases they currently don't. So, even if the current situation is currently "bad" (from our perspective), the alternative is worse.

There's no magic trick. The only real solution for poor working conditions is to increase demand for labor more than the net growth of the workforce. Higher demand coupled with lower offer equals higher prices (in this case, higher wages). Once the demand over there is so high that companies start competing among themselves for workers, so that workers can start choosing were to work, a choice which usually includes considerations on working conditions, these companies will all find themselves compelled to improve working conditions, or start losing their best workers, then the average ones, and finally even the bad ones. Not being dumb, they'll follow the improvement path simply because there'll be no alternative.

All of which means, counter-intuitively as it seems, that people should actually do the opposite of what you suggested.

Lesser evil is still evil, so start w/ good cond's (4, Informative)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990903)

Those Foxconn employees chose to work there because, to them, it's much better than working in the alternative business, namely, very dirty and very poor 4th world level farming. If big companies all around started refusing to work with Foxconn, it'd shrink, laying all that people off, back to the farms, to die of diseases they currently don't. So, even if the current situation is currently "bad" (from our perspective), the alternative is worse.

That's like saying that your slavemaster beats you less than someone else's. You're still a slave, you're still getting beaten, and the only difference is that you get shiny golden shackles, get beaten with precision instruments, or get executed in some van if you think about raising freedom.

The better idea is to start with good conditions in the first place. Then make sure those good conditions become a common practice. That's how you skip the evils of slavery. What China is figuring out is how to keep the slavery going so that your situation never happens; so far, they've been successful at making sure economic development doesn't result in freedoms for those that are not businesses. The totalitarian model that China gives freedom for businesses, but none for workers - for giving workers the requisite freedom would threaten business efficiency.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (1)

sgt scrub (869860) | more than 2 years ago | (#38991165)

A china based company will open its doors paying higher wages and forcing fewer hours and charge 10% more. Force them to compete with each other without using/abusing their employees. If customers don't insist the people they are dealing with are fairly with their employees then nothing will change.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (1)

Viceice (462967) | more than 2 years ago | (#38991591)

Don't ban imports, simply impose import duties on all manufactured items until it BECOMES competitive to build it in America. Either jobs return to America, or suddenly there is enough money to seriously fix the national debt. It's win win.

And to the people who say that it will ruin the economy, quite the opposite. The economy DOES NOT exist on Wall St, it exists when everyday people exchange the goods or service they produce for those of others. More people producing and then consuming in America simply makes the American economy better.

On top of that, on purchasing power terms, in most Asian countries the cost of an iPad is anywhere from 1-3 months salary for the average middle class person, yet it still sells like hot cakes. The argument that people won't buy an iDevice if the price goes up 3 fold if made in America is simply flawed.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38992121)

And let's be clear: The product you're buying isn't essential to your livelihood. It is a status symbol and a material comfort.

Certainly, you who have no idea who I am or what I do is an authority on that subject, oh, yes.

Is that 10% really worth it?

You might want to do some research on actual costs sometime.

There are some standards that we should not compromise on:

I agree; this is why I often buy Apple products. Maybe your idea of a good time is spending Friday night rooting your Android phone; I've got better things to do - like making money for myself, my employees, and my clients.

We should not allow business with companies or countries that have to place nets on and around their buildings to catch people committing suicide because of it's poor working conditions.

Make sure you don't buy anything from any company based in the United States of America, then. Or is it okay to exploit the fuck out of Mexican laborers?

Re:Apple and Foxconn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38990155)

On a related note, the NY Times published an interesting article on why the U.S. lost out on iPhone work. For most big electronics companies, it's simply not economically viable to manufacture here in the States.

This is precisely why Apple is getting singled out. They're making bazillions of dollars off the backs of exploited workers, and then turning around and complaining that it's "too expensive" to not do so. No, it's not too expensive, they're just putting profit ahead of workers' rights.

Better story on The Register (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38990159)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/09/foxconn_hack_swagg/

And score 5 informative? He says give up and keep buying your electronics and supporting these assholes. Well, just like anything else, it has to start someplace, so YES, handing petitions to Apple CAN be effective in starting the ball rolling in to get other companies involved, other consumers involved and rally as a group against these companies for better working conditions in China. When these manufacturers see enough companies taking their business to the competitors who create better working conditions, and yes charge a little more, they'll turn around too or be left in the dust.

Change IS coming. Morals are changing. CEOs are beginning to find that they are no longer invisible to the common man. Corporate Boards are beginning to question whether the simple pursuit of profits should be the sole goal of the business. Maybe not out loud, maybe not even foremost in their thoughts, but the question is there, seething, every time they read about the public outcry against their fellow corporations. We need to keep pushing. If we don't, we're screwed.

captcha: barriers

Re:Apple and Foxconn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38990179)

Apple is being singled out because the hipsters who buy their products suddenly realised what they have been indirectly praising for the last 10 years.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (2, Interesting)

pankkake (877909) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990199)

I don't think the hipsters are the ones criticizing Apple. And they won't until another brand gives them the ability to be smug assholes about "chosing" it.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38990879)

Other way around. The hipsters are going out of their way to defend apple. Because empathy is cool right now, so its obviously behind the curve.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38990195)

I think that's a little defeatist. Sure other companies use Foxconn and Foxconn is in another country. However, Apple has become somewhat of an icon now. One only needs to accept that Apple is now of a flagship company in tech industry. Apple's customers ask Apple to improve worker conditions at its supplier's facilities. In turn, Foxconn now has a customer that wants conditions improved. No one expects a store manager to be able to do anything based on a petition handed to them. People do expect to get the attention of Apple.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (1)

sonicmerlin (1505111) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990197)

right... that article was already discussed on slashdot. the gist of it was that the workers are treated like animals. regardless, wages are steadily rising in China and foxconn is now moving some plants over to Brazil where wages are lower.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (1)

sgt scrub (869860) | more than 2 years ago | (#38991201)

Could you provide a link please. Last I looked, 2010, minimum wage in Brazil was triple that of China. I like to keep up to date.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (1)

sonicmerlin (1505111) | more than 2 years ago | (#38992743)

Yeah sorry I'm an idiot. (it's a little over double though based on GDP).

Dealing With Bullies 101. (2)

PeanutButterBreath (1224570) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990217)

Not only is it completely ineffective to hand a signed petitions to some Apple store manager in an attempt to influence the working conditions of an internationally traded public company in China, it also gives a pass to every other computer company who uses Foxconn.

You pick the biggest, baddest of the bunch and sucker punch him. Is it sporting? No. Does it get results? Maybe, maybe not. But it sure feels good.

People who love Apple products are clearly willing to pay a premium. Apple's labor costs are moot in every respect except their own over-stuffed bank accounts. Apple doesn't yet believe that the number of additional units they might sell by foreswearing cheap labor will make up for the few extra dollars they will spend. Picking on them (even unfairly -- or even better unfairly) disrupts this calculation. Enough negative publicity can motivate them to make a change.

And if it Apple changes, the others will fall in line. Ain't it great to back an innovator?

Were you born stupid? or did it take practice? (1)

Brannon (221550) | more than 2 years ago | (#38992161)

Governments set labor and trade policies. Public companies are obligated (by law) to maximize profit. Boycotts about this kind of thing never work--if they did then Nike wouldn't sell so many shoes.

Go vote for some better laws. Blaming Apple misses the point, misses the root of the problem, and above all showcases what an idiot you are.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (3, Insightful)

Jake73 (306340) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990237)

Not only is it completely ineffective to hand a signed petitions to some Apple store manager in an attempt to influence the working conditions of an internationally traded public company in China...

Not so. Excuse me, but these are precisely the market forces that are supposed to insight change in "pure capitalism". Pure capitalism and our American brand of government / industry cooperation are essentially bottom-up enterprises where change usually comes from the accumulation of lots of insignificant voices.

I'm curious what alternative you would suggest would insight change? Three chain-wearing ghosts visiting Tim Cook overnight convincing him to change his businesses practices and relationships?

Re:Apple and Foxconn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38990873)

has parent been moderated "insightful" due to it containing insight, or due to it containing a huge amount of misspellings of "incite"?

Re:Apple and Foxconn (2)

LordLucless (582312) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990945)

Using incite rather than insight could work ;P

Seriously though, capitalism was never predicated around petitions. If you want "pure capitalism" to work, then the response is to not buy Apple products. A petition may be a useful adjunct, so Apple knows why they're being boycotted, but a petition without accompanying action is meaningless.

Secondly, by focussing on Apple you're giving a free-pass to all the other tech companies who are using the exact same supplier. If you boycott Apple, just to be some other products produced by the exact same factory, you're applying absolutely zero pressure to that factory.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (1)

martin-boundary (547041) | more than 2 years ago | (#38991637)

A petition may be a useful adjunct, so Apple knows why they're being boycotted, but a petition without accompanying action is meaningless.

You don't understand what a petition is for.

A petition is a way of making customers aware that they should refuse to buy from Apple. One stands around a table for hours and asks each potential customer to sign the petition. If they do, they're probably going to think twice about entering the store or buying something. If they don't sign and argue, the activity around the table will probably attract some interest from passers by, some of which may even agre to sign.

It's all about having a document that a lot of people must sign, because the side effect of that is that a lot of people are being made aware of what's going on. The document itself is just an excuse, and whether Apple has read it or not is well nigh irrelevant.

If you wanted to tell Apple that you're boycotting them, you could do it in a private letter sent to their HQ. It would go straight to the bin, and nobody but you would know that you're boycotting them. Now that's pretty meaningless.

It's all meaningless (2)

Brannon (221550) | more than 2 years ago | (#38992117)

the vector to change runs through petitioning the governments (US or China) to enact legislation. Apple isn't breaking any laws and they aren't [arguably] doing anything unethical--which is why most people don't care.

Most people on Slashdot didn't care about "worker conditions" when Dell was the biggest computer company in the world using third world labor--but now they care because they hate Apple because Apple won't let them compile the Linux kernel or run SETI on an iPhone. Just like most people on Slashdot couldn't care less that their beloved Android phone is made in the same or worse factories as iPhones.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (2)

KhabaLox (1906148) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990798)

Where are the demonstrations against the Chinese government?

There were never any demonstrations, and the demonstrators are in jail.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38990840)

When there was an article about iPad trademark dispute in China, Apple fanboys were quick to tell us how Apple could make them go away just by threatening to move production, because iStuff is 40% of production at Foxconn, and so they surely have some economical pull on Foxconn and, through them and other parts of other production chain, on China.

But when the article is about work conditions at Foxconn, they're quick to tell us how Apple is just one of many and can't really do anything about it.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (2)

Charliemopps (1157495) | more than 2 years ago | (#38991027)

Bullshit. Apple is a large, high-profile target. It makes perfect sense to go after them. Will Dell customers care? Nintendo? No. About the only tech consumers that are going to give a shit about this sort of thing are naive yuppies that can actually afford to pay the extra cost of having something manufactured by people making the same wage their teenage kids make at the local McDonalds.

I actually disagree with the point of the protests. As shitty as the jobs are to us they are great for someone that's facing subsistence farming or prostitution as an alternative. People don't jump off roofs because they're about to loose a job they hate. Would they rather have the ridiculously cushy jobs we have here? Hell yes, but the alternatives in their own country are far less appealing, and as much as you may dislike Foxcon, they are the conduit to better working conditions for this generations children. Just like the sweat shops of the 1900's were for the jobs we have now. Wealth drives fair labor practices. If you can make pay rent and put food on the table by working at McDonalds or a Gas station, you certainly wont put up with working in a shit-hole factory for the same money. But they aren't going to build those McDonalds until there are enough shit-hole factories around for customers to show up.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (1)

sgt scrub (869860) | more than 2 years ago | (#38991085)

It is more practical to target them one at a time. Targeting the largest consumer of Foxconn's products first makes it more likely that people will have an effect. If Apple hears people and uses their massive nest egg to do the right thing, that will be a big chunk out of Foxxconn's wallet. Also, when one company sees people successfully beat up a company and know they might be next, they tend to start doing the right thing more quickly.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38991127)

riesThrough constant upgrading of memory and seeking the latest software to keep my 4 year old Acer laptop reliable I have made an efficient and economical use of this device. I would still be making a wise decision had I bought the device for 20 or 30 % more and had it built here in the U.S. ....... I hear the " Major Manufacturers " argument all the time and it's never impressed me with any reason or logic to support it. Am I the only person here in the U.S. that believes it would be easier to oversee unsafe and irresponsible work conditions if we had me n you n everyone else keeping things straight up ? Right Here ? What , we can't produce enough character within ourselves ............ to come up with a couple extra bucks for a U.S. produced device ? We can do it ! You know we can ! If we had a competitive product ( and I believe we once came up with original ideas , once a long time ago somewhere around the invention of decaff ) I believe we can do it again and do it better ! Then the overseas competition would have to come up to the plate and compete by having all conditions in their factories ; come up to our standards to compete. Are you afraid of competition ? Can't afford a little higher price tag to actually raise the worldwide bar ? I've got an ol Acer for you if your so poor you can't help workers overseas ! I'm buying a new laptop and it'll do for 4 more years ; got anything U.S. made ?

Re:Apple and Foxconn (2)

izomiac (815208) | more than 2 years ago | (#38991129)

For most big electronics companies, it's simply not economically viable to manufacture here in the States.

Part of the reason people are going after Apple is because Apple isn't one of them. Their profit margins could easily support the somewhat higher manufacturing costs. Plus, Apple publicly praised the factory for their slave-like working conditions that facilitate rapid design changes at the CEO's whim.

Remember that the last article said that Apple was the best about being proactive about labor conditions...so where are the protests against the companies that aren't?

Not being the worst doesn't make you immune to criticism. Also, none of the other manufacturers have as much name recognition or as much influence over Foxconn. The former is necessary to garner enough support to influence the western company, and the latter is necessary for actual change to occur.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38991331)

The world's tiniest violin, please.

What is happening to Apple is the same thing that happened to Nike in the 90's with sweatshop labor.
  If you're organizing a campaign against something that is bad, it's way easier to pick one brand to boycott. And why not pick the most recognizable of them?

Also, in case no one reads the article on the NYT website about Apple and Foxconn, the summary is that Americans are not willing to give up enough freedoms to earn the manufacturing jobs. Sorry, but the Chinese will work (no overtime) 12 hours a day, 7 days a week and live in a shack with 15 other dudes. If Americans are willing to do that, Apple may reconsider moving the manufacturing back to the US.

Re:Apple and Foxconn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38991523)

"For most big electronics companies, it's simply not economically viable to manufacture here in the States."

It is absolutely economically viable. They just have to charge more for their products.

It may not make the absolute most profit, but you can be fucking sure there's plenty of profit to be had. the issue at hand isn't that they can't make money. The issue is that they're greedy and want more profit.

Moving Anyways (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38990061)

Apple said a while ago they are moving production to Brazil. The hackers must not read the news.

Re:Moving Anyways (2)

Microlith (54737) | more than 2 years ago | (#38991677)

They aren't moving, they are simply putting factories in Brazil to avoid the high tariffs that come from a nation that protects its labor force.

Re:Moving Anyways (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38992151)

Apple isn't putting anything in Brazil. Apple != Foxconn

The name SwaggSec alone raises questions (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38990077)

Swag is a word for furries and bronies. This is the furry, brony, 604% more pretentious version of Lulzsec.

Time to rethink (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38990079)

Personally, I don't mind shelling out a bit more cash for my electronics. Now, it just seems too much of a vicious circle. Product cycles for cell phones and portable electronics are just too short. With the third world screaming for apple devices, what is the environmental impact of Apple updating their OS and hardware so frequently. I seem to remember buying an Iphone and not even having it for over a year, then Apple's system-update brought the thing to its knees. I brought it back to the Apple store, where the technician pretty much said. I'm sorry, yes - you shouldn't have to deal with this laggy-ness. To their credit, they did just swap it out with the same unit minus the update and helped me restore everything.

How many protestors? (2)

thestudio_bob (894258) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990125)

How many protestors?

Oh yeah, only 12, and only at the Grand Central Terminal. Not sure about where else in the world this "protest" was going on, but would love to hear some stats on the crowds.

Re:How many protestors? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38991163)

only 12, and only at the Grand Central Terminal

They were actually there re-enacting the final scenes from Hackers

Re:How many protestors? (1)

laffer1 (701823) | more than 2 years ago | (#38991307)

Hack the Planet!

Foxconn's policies shaped by China, not Apple! (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38990171)

They hit Foxconn. Apple has no place in this headline or story.

FYI Foxconn is a massive company that supplies:

Acer Inc. (Taiwan)[27]
Amazon.com (United States)[28]
Apple Inc. (United States)[29]
ASRock (Taiwan)[citation needed]
Asus (Taiwan)[citation needed]
Barnes & Noble (United States)[citation needed]
Cisco (United States)[30]
Dell (United States)[31]
EVGA Corporation (United States)
Hewlett-Packard (United States)[32]
Intel (United States)[33]
IBM (United States)[citation needed]
Lenovo (China)[citation needed]
Microsoft (United States)[34]
MSI (Taiwan)[citation needed]
Motorola (United States)[31]
Netgear (United States)[citation needed]
Nintendo (Japan)[35]
Nokia (Finland)[29]
Panasonic (Japan)[citation needed]
Samsung (South Korea)[36]
Sharp (Japan)[citation needed]
Sony (Japan)[37]
Sony Ericsson (Japan/Sweden)[38]
Vizio (USA)

Complaining to Apple (or any other company on that list), which are all corporations that are basically legally obligated to seek maximum profit, about Foxconn's labor policies, which are fully in compliance with China's labor regulations, is an absolute waste of time. Governments control labor conditions through labor laws and regulations. Apple does not. You would think this is obvious, but I suppose I underestimate the power of "Apple" in headlines drawing pageviews and ad revenue.

Re:Foxconn's policies shaped by China, not Apple! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38990859)

You're forgetting that this is Slashdot, and nothing gets in the way of a good old fashioned Apple bashing. Never mind that the Samsung's phone are made by Foxconn too, but they run Slashdot's darling Android, so we won't mention them.

Re:Foxconn's policies shaped by China, not Apple! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38991791)

Mommy, Timmy can do it, why can't I?

Apple Iphone 4 Schematics (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38990235)

If anyone's interested, the iPhone 4 schematics are available online (unrelated to this incident): http://insidetronics.blogspot.com/2011/11/iphone-4-schematics.html [blogspot.com]

9to5Mac "verified" this? (1)

afabbro (33948) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990447)

9to5mac.com says [9to5mac.com] : "We were able to verify these logins worked on more than one Foxconn server"

So, did they "verify" this by logging in with these stolen accounts? Apparently so. I personally don't care, but I have to think they've opened themselves up to some legal unpleasantness...

If, for example, someone handed me a piece of paper with various logins and passwords to employee accounts at $BIG_COMPANY, I don't think it would be legal to login to those accounts. Just knowing someone's password doesn't mean you are granted legitimate access.

Obligatory (1)

El_Oscuro (1022477) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990641)

xkcd [xkcd.com]

Why hack (1)

russotto (537200) | more than 2 years ago | (#38990778)

OK, they got a bunch of Foxconn passwords? What was the point? I could see if Foxconn was a computer security company; then you'd be making ballmers out of them. I could see if you found some sort of dirt on them by hacking in, but pretty much all the dirty stuff they do is well known. So you're just proving their security isn't great?

keep out (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38990935)

With 1/3rd of the world's population in the same country that don't seem to mind, why are people taking this upon themselves .. can I vote for your president /ruler/leader since it effects me?

Torrent link (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38991229)

http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/7016541/Foxconn_Leaked___-_Swagg_Security_-

magnet:?xt=urn:btih:33eb4ea67ceb5ce104875bf54e9ceb5f9153a312&dn=Foxconn+Leaked+%7C+-%3ASwagg+Security%3A-&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3A80&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.publicbt.com%3A80&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.ccc.de%3A80

Just my opinion (1)

abednegoyulo (1797602) | more than 2 years ago | (#38991249)

and posted the stolen data to The Pirate Bay website

FWIW, you can't put the actual on TPB. You can only create a torrent file of the actual data and put that torrent file on TPB and the actual data resides on the seeders/leechers. I was surprisinged that it came from securityweek. These type of (inaccurate) news are the news that no-idea-goverment-officials base their decisions.

Obligatoy xkcd [xkcd.com]

Re:Just my opinion (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38991369)

FWIW, you can't put the actual on TPB. You can only create a torrent file of the actual data and put that torrent file on TPB and the actual data resides on the seeders/leechers. I was surprisinged that it came from securityweek. These type of (inaccurate) news are the news that no-idea-goverment-officials base their decisions.

FWIW, you can put the actual data on TPB, provided that the actual data is small enough. The actual data could be recorded in the names of the actual files linked in the torrent, which could have size of 0 bytes for all that it actually mattered.

Re:Just my opinion (1)

abednegoyulo (1797602) | more than 2 years ago | (#38991561)

Interesting procedure on hitting the goal but in this particular case they didn't do that [thepiratebay.se] .

Headline Change Please (3, Insightful)

Windows Breaker G4 (939734) | more than 2 years ago | (#38991333)

That headline should read Hackers Hit Everyone's Supplier, Foxconn.

I wonder what % of their business even comes from Apple? I am not saying Apple shouldn't be pushing to make things better they should. But, Apple is hardly the only person that uses Foxconn, the way you see this stuff reported you would swear Foxconn only works for Apple

http://pastebin.com/2qfJ5Qp9 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38991435)

http://pastebin.com/2qfJ5Qp9

Pastebay is down, however the pages exist in some caches. That is from Dec 1st 2011.

hackers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38992165)

Ironically, the hackers used computers made by Foxconn to do the hacking.

Where's the real hackers/ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#38992321)

A real hacker crew would've gone into accounting and given everyone 2 weeks paid vacation and a raise.

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