Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Global Christianity and the Rise of the Cellphone

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the 9-billion-names-of-god dept.

Books 559

Hugh Pickens writes "Alan Jacobs writes in the Atlantic about Every Tribe Every Nation, an organization whose mission is to produce and disseminate Bibles in readable mobile-ready texts for hundreds of languages including Norsk, Potawatomie, Bahasa Indonesia, and Hawai'i Pidgin as the old missionary impulse is being turned towards some extremely difficult technical challenges. The Bible is a large, complicated text containing three quarters of a million words and the typesetting is quite complex because of the wide range of literature types found in scripture and the need for several types of note. 'For all the issues that are still to be solved, ETEN is trying to do things that the world's biggest tech companies haven't cracked yet, such as rendering minority languages correctly on mobile devices,' says Mark Howe. 'There's a unity among Bible translators and publishers that stands in stark contrast to the fractured, fratricidal smartphone industry.' But once these technical challenges are met, it won't be only Bibles only that people can get on their mobile devices, but whole new textual worlds."

cancel ×

559 comments

New technology, old mindsets (-1, Flamebait)

gweihir (88907) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004197)

You would thing that people would be able do away with these historic and completely ridiculous ideas by now. Instead they are still stuck in the dark ages, but now with shiny new technology. Really sad.

Re:New technology, old mindsets (4, Interesting)

AltGrendel (175092) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004199)

True but at least it gives them the drive to solve a knotty problem.

Re:New technology, old mindsets (2, Insightful)

gweihir (88907) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004211)

Well, yes. but I do not think that is actually a good thing, all things considered. For example, the crusades required a lot of drive but are among the most evil human undertakings ever.

Use LaTeX (2)

LinuxIsGarbage (1658307) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004271)

We all know LaTeX allows you to focus on the content and magically comes up with beautiful layouts. I mean the single best page layouts are always in the looks-the-same LaTeX format! And it's so intuitive to use!

Re:Use LaTeX (5, Informative)

WWWWolf (2428) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004343)

We all know LaTeX allows you to focus on the content and magically comes up with beautiful layouts. I mean the single best page layouts are always in the looks-the-same LaTeX format! And it's so intuitive to use!

Looks-the-same format? [tug.org] Wha...? =)

Also, funnily enough (and relevant to the article), one of the groups who is trying to improve (La)TeX's suitability for modern font technologies and supporting obscure languages is SIL [sil.org] , a group that does, among other things, Bible translations. (The end result is XeTeX [sil.org] , one of the best TeX versions out there right now if you want good PDF output and TrueType/OpenType support out of the box.)

Re:Use LaTeX (4, Insightful)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004363)

To be honest, for technical writing LaTeX+BibTeX is a hell of lot easier to deal with than any word processing software (LyX being the "exception"), at least in my opinion. There are a few non-technical reasons for this, like the fact that most of the relevant conferences and journals in my field publish LaTeX style definitions and that BibTeX citations are available everywhere (and I do not have to procure additional software just for biblioigraphy management).

Re:New technology, old mindsets (4, Insightful)

stoolpigeon (454276) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004273)

putting a book into the local language and sending an army to kill people - quite a comparison.

Re:New technology, old mindsets (-1, Troll)

gweihir (88907) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004323)

Indeed. That is why I did not make it. I commented on religiously motivated "drive".

Re:New technology, old mindsets (5, Insightful)

stoolpigeon (454276) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004381)

so anything with religious motivation is bad no matter what they do?

that seems as narrow and short sighted as the other way of taking it.

Re:New technology, old mindsets (5, Insightful)

SomeKDEUser (1243392) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004481)

In a sense, yes. If you are logically minded, you know that from false premises, one can prove anything. Someone who is driven to do stuff for bad reasons can do good an evil.

But you have no guarantee. So in some sense, it would be better if there were no drive: that way, you needn't worry that next time, instead of typesetting, it'll be bombs.

Re:New technology, old mindsets (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39004617)

so anything with religious motivation is bad no matter what they do?

No, the thing can be good while the motivation is bad. Religious motivation is always a bad idea even if it sometimes results in good things, because when it results in good things, it does so by accident.

There are good reasons to do good things that don't require one to suspend critical faculties.

Re:New technology, old mindsets (3, Insightful)

Nutria (679911) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004279)

As opposed to the Muslims who conquered Palestine, North Africa, Iberia, Persia, Mesopotamia and southeastern Europe?

Re:New technology, old mindsets (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39004315)

The GP didn't say a single damn thing about Muslims, for or against. He simply used an example from the Christian world to make a point about what these Christians are doing - far more relevant than you jumping on at the first opportunity to make a barely salient point about Muslims. What's your beef?

Re:New technology, old mindsets (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39004433)

He is afraid of brown people?

Re:New technology, old mindsets (1)

LoyalOpposition (168041) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004527)

The Muslims are barely salient to the crusades?

~Loyal

Re:New technology, old mindsets (0, Troll)

gweihir (88907) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004329)

Just because there are more morons out there with a different Book does not excuse these here at all.

Re:New technology, old mindsets (3, Insightful)

Nutria (679911) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004483)

No excuses from me; just counteracting the mass fallacy that only the Crusaders were Teh Evil and that the Muslims were a bunch of Little Miss Innocents.

they actually pushed as far north as Spain (0)

electrosoccertux (874415) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004425)

(coming across Gibraltor of course).
This is well known among the educated academic community to have been one of the main reasons that the Catholic Church went on the Crusades. Justifies it? No. Makes your Christians seem less crazy? Yeah.

Re:they actually pushed as far north as Spain (2, Interesting)

Nutria (679911) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004507)

And the Caliphate armies pushed into central France before being pushed back by Charles Martel.

Anyway, of course it justifies the Crusades. What powerful civilization doesn't try to conquer back what was taken from it?

Just don't think there was anything Christ-like about the Christians.

Re:New technology, old mindsets (2, Informative)

ArcherB (796902) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004427)

Well, yes. but I do not think that is actually a good thing, all things considered. For example, the crusades required a lot of drive but are among the most evil human undertakings ever.

You mean the same Crusades where a group of people tried to regain access to the Holy Land after it was cut off? What do you think the Muslims would do if Israel cut off access to the "Dome of the Rock"? Would you blame them? When they attack Israel, would you call it "among the most evil human undertakings ever"?

From the wiki page on Crusades:

The Crusades were a series of religious expeditionary wars blessed by the Pope and the Catholic Church, with the main goal of restoring Christian access to the holy places in and near Jerusalem. The Crusades were originally launched in response to a call from the leaders of the Byzantine Empire for help to fight the expansion into Anatolia of Muslim Seljuk Turks who had cut off access to Jerusalem.

Re:New technology, old mindsets (3, Informative)

DarkOx (621550) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004453)

Umm what? The the most evil undertaking ever? I am sorry that is complete and utter BS. There have been far more evil deeds done. I will grant you the Crusades were not very 'Christian' but they were no more evil than any other way. Also its worth pointing out that popular idea the Christian powers started it is wrong, Islam had been spread to those areas mostly by force years before, if anything the Crusades were a counter attack.

Do you think war for the cause of national security is necessarily evil?

Re:New technology, old mindsets (1)

JockTroll (996521) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004531)

The Crusades were awesome. You don't have to take my word for it, ask the Saxon.

Re:New technology, old mindsets (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39004569)

I find it ridiculous that the "scientific" or perhaps even self-proclaimed "enlightened" mindset on Christianity is that it all boils down to the crusades. It is no different than saying since Hitler or Stalin were atheists that all atheism boils down to genocide and will for all time.

Re:New technology, old mindsets (2)

clorkster (1996844) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004585)

I find it ridiculous that the "scientific" or perhaps even self-proclaimed "enlightened" mindset on Christianity is that it all boils down to the crusades. It is no different than saying since Hitler or Stalin were atheists that all atheism boils down to genocide and will for all time. (I know this is a repost... didn't realize I wasn't logged in)

Re:New technology, old mindsets (1)

Barsteward (969998) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004223)

Do you mean "nutty problem"?

Re:New technology, old mindsets (0)

priceslasher (2102064) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004253)

They're not all going to solve it. One of theirs, chosen by the clouds, will fix it - how else can a population of mystics have cellphones to begin with? It was the will of the gods. In the meantime they will probably be denouncing science and technology with text messaging.

Re:New technology, old mindsets (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39004225)

Apparently it takes a whole lot of persuasion to give people the idea that they should be nice to each other and share, and then most people get lost in the details. Sad indeed.

Karen Armstrong - Golden Rule (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39004277)

Karen Armstrong in one of her TED [ted.com] talks put forth an idea that all religions should concentrate on the Golden Rule - the rule that Confucius created 3,000 years ago. Compassion. Orthopraxy as opposed to orthodoxy.

We should all act like a compassionate person instead of worrying about how others believe and if they believe "correctly" - which is lost on pretty much every practitioner of the religions of Abraham: Judaism, Christianity, Islam.

Re:Karen Armstrong - Golden Rule (1)

gweihir (88907) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004359)

Indeed. And understandable. After all if people focus on compassion, then religion dies as it has become superfluous. And don't forget that each religion is a meme and such subject to evolution: Only those religions that propagate themselves well survive. Those that have allowed their followers to see morality without the crutch of some religious framework have quietly faded away.

The dangerous thing about the "religions of Abraham" is that they not only propagate well (for Judaism mostly to their children though), they also give their followers quite a drive, and are pushing quite a few into fanaticism.

Re:Karen Armstrong - Golden Rule (2)

fbjon (692006) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004391)

I don't think everyone focusing on compassion is liable to eradicate religions anytime soon. You may have noticed that showing compassion is a difficult task for most.

Re:Karen Armstrong - Golden Rule (1)

windcask (1795642) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004613)

To quote Kreia from KoToR II: "Be careful of charity and kindness, lest you do more harm with open hands than with a clenched fist." Compassion towards those who only wish to dominate you and do you harm is not an advisable course of action.

Re:New technology, old mindsets (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39004257)

"You would thing that people would be able do away with these historic and completely ridiculous ideas by now."

Many people in the world still do not have anywhere near a first world living standard. Where poverty and desperation exists so does religion. You'd all do well to see the following video on human reasoning... Human reasoning does not work as the enlightenment thought it did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ

Re:New technology, old mindsets (1, Insightful)

SomeKDEUser (1243392) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004505)

Unfortunately, religion also flourishes in parts of the developed world -- I'm looking at you USA. It is a bug in the human brain. Fortunately, brains are plastic, and it can be cured.

But the point is that although despair is a substrate on which religion can flourish, it is not necessary. Nor is religion necessary to have comfort and empathy. It is a mental illness, and should be treated as such.

Re:New technology, old mindsets (4, Insightful)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004261)

Blah. Even though there is no god, etc., the Bible is still one of the most important texts if you want to understand Western culture and philosophy. Refusing to learn about ideas because they are wrong is simply a more vain and self-glorifying form of anti-intellectualism.

Re:New technology, old mindsets (-1, Flamebait)

gweihir (88907) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004283)

I doubt very much that is the intention behind this project. And, no, the Bible is basically unreadable and it is very hard to interpret what is in there, even if you are free of religion. Better look at other literature that wasting you time on this convoluted and entirely botched effort to write a book. Incidentally, this could be one of the reasons for its success: People interpreting unreadability skill as "mysterious" and "complex".

Re:New technology, old mindsets (2)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004353)

The intention of the project has little to do with what's in the bible (except, of course, the thing about turning all nations into Jesus' disciples). As for readability, that's your opinion, and you've already established the fact that you're anti-intellectual, and therefore by your own intent an idiot. It really isn't that challenging to read. Also, it's a compendium of various texts, not an "effort to write a book".

Re:New technology, old mindsets (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39004327)

...but will it fit in 50 interstellar trucks?

Re:New technology, old mindsets (2, Insightful)

ArcherB (796902) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004403)

You would thing that people would be able do away with these historic and completely ridiculous ideas by now. Instead they are still stuck in the dark ages, but now with shiny new technology. Really sad.

What's sad is that Christians have something you will never have. Christians have something to look forward to. They do not fear death and instead, welcome it. They know what life is all about and never spend a moment wondering what is next or what the point is. Their only concern is how to be the best human being possible to ensure a pleasureable eternity after death. They look forward to meeting friends and family and feel their presense throughout life. Their only fear is that they may not be good enough to enter paradise so they spend their lives trying to do good things for their fellow man and being honorable, honest people throughout their life. Material possessions mean nothing more than what they can be used for to better the lives of others, although the Bible is full of stories about people who did great things with nothing.

On the other hand no matter how much money you make how successful you are in life, you will die and that will be the end of it for you. You will go through life wondering what the point of it all is and why it's all worth it. When you lose loved ones, they are gone forever and you know that you will never be able to spend time with them again. No matter how hard you work, how many possessions you acquire, or accomplishments you achieve, you will end up being a bloated, rotting carcus, just like everyone else, and nothing more. The final chapter of your life involves is about compost.

Even if Christians are wrong, so what? Sure, they'll end up as worm food just like you, but in the mean time, they achieve an inner peace that you will never know and spend their lives trying to better humanity. What's the harm in that? Even after reading an article about Christians pushing tech that will benefit everyone, all you can do is insult them.

The sad part is not only that you will never know these things, but also that you are bitter against those that do.

(Of course, I'm talking about true Christians here, not the negative stereotype you've formed in your head from that one TV preacher you saw on Sunday morning saw after an all night bender, or the horrible stories you heard the news. I'm talking about people like Tim Tebow's parents who give their lives to serve others.)

Re:New technology, old mindsets (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39004463)

What a sad life you must lead if you truly believe that a man cannot find his own purpose and happiness.

Re:New technology, old mindsets (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39004529)

As an Atheist, let me state categorically: I do not fear death. When I die, I'll be too dead to notice. QED.

I always find this particular statement perplexing. Apparently it's the Atheists who fear death, yet it's the Christian (amongst others) who need to make up stories about an ever lasting afterlife to make themselves feel better about the fact that people die. Why would you pretend that people "live on" if you're not afraid of death?

You will go through life wondering what the point of it all is and why it's all worth it.

No. Why do you believe that I would? Why do you even think that I spend any significant life pondering such philosophical questions? There is no point to life. Life just is. Now that's a concept that Christians do find scary!

When you lose loved ones, they are gone forever and you know that you will never be able to spend time with them again. No matter how hard you work, how many possessions you acquire, or accomplishments you achieve, you will end up being a bloated, rotting carcus, just like everyone else, and nothing more. The final chapter of your life involves is about compost.

Yes, and? Fairy tales about them living up in the clouds might make you feel better, but it doesn't change anything: people die.

Re:New technology, old mindsets (3, Insightful)

Rennt (582550) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004533)

What's sad is that Christians have something you will never have. Christians have something to look forward to. They do not fear death and instead, welcome it. They know what life is all about and never spend a moment wondering what is next or what the point is. Their only concern is how to be the best human being possible to ensure a pleasureable eternity after death. They look forward to meeting friends and family and feel their presense throughout life. Their only fear is that they may not be good enough to enter paradise so they spend their lives trying to do good things for their fellow man and being honorable, honest people throughout their life. Material possessions mean nothing more than what they can be used for to better the lives of others, although the Bible is full of stories about people who did great things with nothing.

Oh come on! That's what it says in the marketing material, but in truth most Christians do fear death. They live lives full of guilt, uncertainty and self-hatred and direct that outwardly in an effort to make everybody else feel as shitty as they do.

On the other hand no matter how much money you make how successful you are in life, you will die and that will be the end of it for you. You will go through life wondering what the point of it all is and why it's all worth it. When you lose loved ones, they are gone forever and you know that you will never be able to spend time with them again. No matter how hard you work, how many possessions you acquire, or accomplishments you achieve, you will end up being a bloated, rotting carcus, just like everyone else, and nothing more. The final chapter of your life involves is about compost.

Again, a load of evangelical crap. As an enlightened rational actor in society, you realise that your legacy is what you do with your time, so you try to make the world a better place for the next generation. Yeah, when you are die that's it, but at least you can die happy knowing you did your best, unafraid of the judgement of Gods.

Re:New technology, old mindsets (1)

bleeware (799336) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004551)

Don't need or want your sympathy.

Re:New technology, old mindsets (2, Interesting)

turgid (580780) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004559)

Their only concern is how to be the best human being possible to ensure a pleasureable eternity after death.

I've met a lot of "Christians" over they years whose only concern was being seen to be conforming to their social group's (church friends) idea of "good" (i.e. dogmatic, small-minded, selfish and ignorant) in order to be accepted by that social group, many of whom were labouring under the misapprehension that what they were doing was Christian.

You won't catch me spending eternity in the company of these people.

Re:New technology, old mindsets (5, Insightful)

SomeKDEUser (1243392) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004597)

- it is insulting that you think (against evidence, I might add) that atheists cannot have peace of mind. After all, Buddhism is an atheist philosophy, and peace of mind is their trademark.
  - It is insulting that you think people do good things just because they are afraid of the great CCTV in the sky. People do good things for their own sake.
  - It is insulting that you believe one cannot have any other hope in life than the afterlife. I am a scientist, and my research will live after me, so will my memory in my friends' minds. A writer's books will survive him. And artist's works. The good you do while alive. If you need materially motivated pretexts to do good, there it is.

You should live your life to the fullest, in awe of the universe, precisely because you will return to dust and nothingness. But knowing, because of the immense privilege we have of living now, that we exist because a generation of stars formed, aged and went nova so we could exist as carbon-based lifeforms. We exist because every single one of our ancestors, for four billion years, did no fail to reproduce. We stand half-way to the death of our star, and the beings which will see it die will be as far from us that we are from the first unicellular organism.

You, on the other hand revel in bronze age mythology.

I'll spare you comments about the "no true Scotsman" fallacy you committed in your last paragraph.

Re:New technology, old mindsets (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39004443)

After coming home from a hard-day's work on a Friday evening, I noticed something awful on Slashdot - Beside those already awful Facebook, Twitter, and G+ icons was a flag icon.

"Mother of God," I thought, and many of you thought the same when you first saw it, instantly knowing what it meant.

First, a little background - Slashdot(then known as Chips and Dips [slashdot.org] ) was initiated by pseudonym Commander Taco in 1997. It was later augmented by pseudonym Hemos and the whole thing became Slashdot. By the way, what was to become one of the foremost discussion sites for science and technology was started by a religious twig and a fat fuck*

* there's a joke there, we're gonna get to it...

Yes, not that joke, but another joke, was that the some of the perceived online proponents of science news were actually Hopeless [hope.edu] religious lunatics! And, like CommanderTaco and Hemos, I joined and spewed the filth internalized by priest rape without mentioning the dirty little secret. Not only were the two founders deeply religious, they had a preference for PERL(which, of course, is written and directed by an evangelical lunatic). Larry Wall had raped the two himself while on a religious mission to a Michigan dildo store, and they both gobbled his wholey language (among his other things) down and asked for seconds.

There's a joke here, too - Slashdot considers itself a bastion of free speech.
It prided itself for not deleting any comment, unless the circumstances were so dire that they threatened its own existence. They rightly publicised their first monumental loss, against the church of Scientology. Now it wants to "flag posts." For what? Reporting to homeland security? Flagging is not in the FAQ.

Historically, even though the moderators acted as the Basij,(to quote another Slashdot reader from years ago) charasmatic trolls could not be silenced. Now, with the flag icon, Slashdot has gone full censorship.

If their awful flagging cannot be destroyed by asking or pleading, it must be destroyed by trolling. Citizens - please flag every high-scoring comment you can, and offer a technical explanation why that comment should be flagged. When your comments disappear because of some jackass who doesn't agree with you, attack the advertisers next. Contact their advertising or PR department and say, " I was trying to say online how great your products were, but Slashdot's censorship system prevented others from seeing my comment. " Flood their advertisers with those comments until those awful flag icons disappear entirely and Slashdot releases a statement regretting the use of flags.

Oh, that joke you were wondering about. Hemos is now skinny and Commander Taco is now fat. And the Jew Timothy and his overlords at the JIDF are still in charge of Slashdot.

Re:New technology, old mindsets (1)

silverdr (779097) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004465)

It's just as with every other business: one needs to reach the customers, potentially solving some technical challenges on the way there.

Great (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39004201)

More fanfic.

Leading the way (3, Insightful)

rcharbon (123915) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004207)

Porn and religion, both a drain on society, but leaders in advancing technology to bring content to the masses.

Re:Leading the way (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39004217)

Like many slashdotters, you're completely dismissing the amount of benifical influence on Western civilization brought about by pornography.

Re:Leading the way (4, Insightful)

sakdoctor (1087155) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004227)

Like being a sex education substitute, in cultures which are skittish about sex?

Re:Leading the way (4, Funny)

Barsteward (969998) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004229)

At least Porn is a reality......

Re:Leading the way (4, Funny)

ArcherB (796902) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004455)

At least Porn is a reality......

I used to be a pizza delivery driver, and let me tell you porn is NOT reality!

Re:Leading the way (1)

Islemaster (1572519) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004477)

In what universe? I thought most porn was fantasy...

3/4 million words. tl;dr (4, Interesting)

sakdoctor (1087155) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004213)

I wonder how short a religious text could theoretically be, while still sustainably self-replicating between hosts. (i.e. religious believers). Much of the bible is akin to junk DNA.

Re:3/4 million words. tl;dr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39004231)

It can be shortened to a few words: Stop being an idiot.

Probably easier to translate too - I bet there is a word for "idiot" in every language.

Re:3/4 million words. tl;dr (1, Insightful)

tsa (15680) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004235)

The whole bible translaes to: treat other people the way you'd like them to treat you.

Re:3/4 million words. tl;dr (4, Insightful)

belthize (990217) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004247)

With the occasional interludes into: but if they don't fit your world view throw rocks at them till they're dead.

Re:3/4 million words. tl;dr (2)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004287)

You are probably thinking of this guy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel_the_Elder [wikipedia.org]

Who summarized it as the inverse of what you said:

What is hateful to you, do not do to others.

Re:3/4 million words. tl;dr (3, Funny)

Ihmhi (1206036) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004299)

So for some reason I want to be raped, killed with the skull of an animal wielded like a club, and then turned into a pillar of salt?

Re:3/4 million words. tl;dr (2, Insightful)

ArcherB (796902) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004521)

So for some reason I want to be raped, killed with the skull of an animal wielded like a club, and then turned into a pillar of salt?

That's the Old Testement. Chrisitianity is based of the New Testament. It's where Christ tought the church leaders to not be stupid when it comes to religion. For example, they brought a man with a crippled hand before Christ on a Saturday. See, it was illegal to work on a Saturday, and healing this guy would be against the law. Here is what followed:

"Is it right to heal anyone on the Sabbath day?" they asked him - hoping to bring a charge against him.

"If any of you had a sheep which fell into a ditch on the Sabbath day, would he not take hold of it and pull it out?" replied Jesus. "How much more valuable is a man than a sheep? You see, it is right to do good on the Sabbath day."

Then Jesus said to the man, "Stretch out your hand!" He did stretch it out, and it was restored as sound as the other.

--Matthew 12:9-14

The point is for you know the difference between the Old and New Testaments and which ones various groups follow. For example, your point may have made sense if this were an article about religion. But since it was an article about Christianity specifically, you just showed your ignorance. You don't have to believe the story I just quoted above, but you should understand that Christianity is not about what you seem to think it is. It's called the NEW Testament for a reason.

Re:3/4 million words. tl;dr (1)

gweihir (88907) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004311)

Obviously you have neither read it nor observed the behavior of others that claim to have read it.

Still, if you have come to this conclusion, then you have done something very right. It is just that most people do not manage to see that.

Re:3/4 million words. tl;dr (2)

ArsonSmith (13997) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004379)

I'm not a religious hating atheist, but I am an atheist. I don't think you have hit it even close. Perhaps worded:

"Still, if you have come to this conclusion, then you have done something very right, and most people do manage that much. Although, history has shown that occasionally some people can twist the message for selfish and evil gains."

Re:3/4 million words. tl;dr (1)

taxman_10m (41083) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004397)

Also, thou shalt worship an angry and vengeful God and maybe for your slavish devotion he will take pity on you in this life but more likely the next.

Re:3/4 million words. tl;dr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39004419)

Not really. Jesus told his disciples: "Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples,".

There's a difference between doing that and treating others the way you'd like them to treat you. "first level" interpretations of the golden rule allow more passivity. For example you might prefer to have other people to just leave you alone and even not help you if you have problems.

You could have a "second level" interpretation of the golden rule where you respect other people's preferences and they respect yours, so you'd actually treat them differently from the way you want them to treat you based on what you know they'd like. But many people might just stick to "first level".

Jesus's new commandment (and other stuff he said - e.g. parable of the Good Samaritan) to his disciples makes it clearer that Christians can't just use their own preference as an excuse. Such commands and messages require adherents to actively try to do good stuff.

And that's possibly one of the reasons why Christians annoy more people, but arguably also help more people than say Buddhists. You don't have as many Buddhists going over to some distant country to set up schools and hospitals for the poor. Not saying there aren't any Buddhist hospitals.

Re:3/4 million words. tl;dr (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39004469)

Actually the whole Bible boils down to:
God pursues sinful mankind through the offer of His crucified and resurrected Son, Jesus. If we repent and believe He will forgive our sins and return us to His family.

Re:3/4 million words. tl;dr (5, Insightful)

thisnamestoolong (1584383) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004607)

Really? You clearly haven't read it then. It boils down to this:

God created intentionally created humans ignorant. God then commands humans not to become less ignorant. As humans were created ignorant by asshole God, they obviously can't know any better, so they eat the fruit and progress beyond their woefully subservient roots. God then condemns ALL OF HUMANKIND TO ETERNAL TORMENT BECAUSE TWO PEOPLE ATE A FUCKING APPLE.

Then, God decides that women need a little bit of extra punishment, because fuck women, that's why.

Shortly thereafter, this omnipotent, omniscient God KILLS EVERYTHING ON THE PLANET because, apparently, not even being all-powerful can keep you from cocking things up now and again.

Once humanity gets back on its feet, God sends his chosen people on a mission to ETHNICALLY CLEANSE the promised land, raping, pillaging, murdering, and basically committing every war crime we have on the book for a few hundred pages.

God then decides that the best way to save humanity is somehow to send himself down to Earth to be horrifically executed in public. He couldn't just, you, know, forgive us. Imagine if your dad decided that he was going to forgive you for crashing his car, but first you had to watch him brand himself with a hot poker, just for you. Pretty fucked up, right?

Even after all of this, the prime directive is still to worship the divine asshole dictator in the sky; you can spend your whole life treating everyone around you BETTER than you treat yourself, and you will still be cast into a lake of fire for not believing.

When you boil the Bible down to its basic essence, it is every bit as vile as Mein Kampf, if not more so. While there are some nice, happy little sayings in there, they do little to redeem the overwhelming monstrosity of the rest of the text.

Re:3/4 million words. tl;dr (1)

Nimey (114278) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004609)

The whole thing, or the Gospels?

Re:3/4 million words. tl;dr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39004239)

Question answered: http://www.jesusandmo.net/2012/02/01/dross/ [jesusandmo.net]

Re:3/4 million words. tl;dr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39004255)

It would need to be sufficiently contradictory so that every potential believer could see something relevant to the beliefs they already carry.

Peaceful people can latch onto "Love thy neighbor"-type parts while more violent people can get off on apocalyptic nonsense.

Re:3/4 million words. tl;dr (4, Funny)

Ihmhi (1206036) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004295)

Let's find out. I hereby present The Holy Book of the Church of Brevity. Here are its contents:

Don't be a douchebag.

Love,
God

Re:3/4 million words. tl;dr (1)

ArsonSmith (13997) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004383)

I can do what ever I want as long as I am not a vessel for pumping warm water up peoples asses? There is far to much ambiguity in your brevity.

Re:3/4 million words. tl;dr (1)

taxman_10m (41083) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004415)

The problem with that is time. Over time other people will expound on what was said. They will find deeper meaning, hidden meaning, and maybe even turn the whole sentiment upside down.

Re:3/4 million words. tl;dr (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39004575)

http://spamusement.com/index.php/comics/view/137

Re:3/4 million words. tl;dr (1)

gweihir (88907) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004303)

Depends on the effort spent. For the Koran, they have and systematically train people that know the whole damned thing by heart.

Would be interesting though whether there is research in memetic theory that shows how complex a meme can be and still spread well. I would also guess that length is not the right measure. Maybe entropy is.

Does anybody here know or have a link? Would be appreciated.

Re:3/4 million words. tl;dr (1)

Rennt (582550) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004591)

I suspect that organized religion is too hierarchical to be considered memetic.

Re:3/4 million words. tl;dr (1)

ElBeano (570883) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004361)

Probably a better analogy than you realize, though I don't think you have a very good understanding of either one.

Re:3/4 million words. tl;dr (1)

gestalt_n_pepper (991155) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004411)

While not completely self-sustaining in content, those stupid little cartoon religious tracts that get left on bus stops would qualify as a sustainable self replicator. The form is is the sustainable feature as it parasitically takes ideas from the larger virus (i.e. the bible) for replication.

Bible translation is already a big help (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39004221)

Bible translation is usually the one taking the big step of documenting a new language and defining a character set for it. So really, this isn't new.

Re:Bible translation is already a big help (0)

electrosoccertux (874415) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004437)

What? Christians are evil and there's no way they're doing anything beneficial for the world such as bringing reading/writing education to aborigine tribes.

Sample Text (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39004243)

Crowd: OMG 4000 dudes 7 loaves 2 fish
Jesus: Lotsa food now LOL
Crowd: WTFBBQ!

Next step... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39004249)

Once the language barrier has been overcome, let's hope 'On the Origin of Species' is translated. After all, if you're going to use science and technology, you might as well go all the way.

Look we are all the same, expect for them and .... (3, Interesting)

sjwt (161428) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004263)

"There's a unity among Bible translators and publishers that stands in stark contrast to the fractured, fratricidal smartphone industry."

Which is really and odd statement considering how many different versions their are, sure one might be able to say what 60-80% are version X, but still major fractions happen over the translations.

Re:Look we are all the same, expect for them and . (1)

electrosoccertux (874415) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004451)

the system architecture is largely the same, only difference being in the words chosen in presentation of the stories. Minor UI differences.

Good news for my old eyes! (1, Funny)

cvtan (752695) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004289)

I really want to read a million-word document on my cell phone screen! Maybe reading the Bible while I'm driving will sort of cancel out, karma wise, sort of...

You're not supposed to *read* the Bible . . . (1)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004331)

You're supposed to worship it. For most of its existence, only a selected few could read it anyway. At least Christians can now RTFM, and think a bit about what's in there now. Instead of having someone else tell them what to think about what's in there.

Although, it's inherent in religions of all stripes to tend to stray on the dogmatic side. Although all these indigenous folks can now read the Bible, who knows if they can understand what's in there. I don't think the authors of the Bible even knew themselves.

Re:You're not supposed to *read* the Bible . . . (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39004549)

LOL - worship a book... it'd make much more sense to worship my toaster.. !

"Norsk" (1)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004333)

When the summary is written in English it's stupid to then slap a non-English word in it. "Norsk" translates to "Norwegian."

Re:"Norsk" (1)

Nimey (114278) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004619)

One wonders if the submitter meant Nynorsk (an invented Norwegian language that was IIRC supposed to be free of Swedish influence, created after Norway gained independence) as opposed to the more widely-spoken Bokmal.

What, no Klingon version? (2)

Megane (129182) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004347)

How will we ever conquer those mindless savages from across the galaxy?

Re:What, no Klingon version? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39004401)

I'm sure someone has made one. Oh look: http://klv.mrklingon.org/

Re:What, no Klingon version? (3, Funny)

gestalt_n_pepper (991155) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004479)

Yes, it would be most inspiring to read the bible in the original Klingon.

Can someone SMS me the bible? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39004349)

Just take your time.

Ah, yes, Christian unity (3, Insightful)

mbone (558574) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004373)

There's a unity among Bible translators and publishers that stands in stark contrast to the fractured, fratricidal smartphone industry.

Also, alas, in stark contrast to the fractured and occasionally literally fratricidal world of their theological paymasters.

ROFLMAO (0)

sgt scrub (869860) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004395)

Gutenburg missed out on selling trinkets to Catholics, invented the "mobile type" printing press, printed a bible because it was safe, and ended up helping to destroy the Christian induced sociopathic environment Europe had fallen into by making knowledge easily distributable. Now a Christian organization wants to use the new and improved method of distributing knowledge to translate a bible in languages with currently unsupported types in an attempt to endoctrinate them.

In which the question becomes imperative (1)

kilodelta (843627) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004405)

How much of the King James Bible was lost in translation to English. It's odd that certain languages don't have words for certain concepts and so in translation, something is lost.

The Bible we read today is the result of the Council of Nicea, and several other alignment efforts over time.

But I strongly suggest we all read the ENTIRETY of the texts within the Bible. Because only then do the outright inconsistencies and lies become evident.

I applaud (2)

Phrogman (80473) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004457)

the effort to bring better and more convenient communications to people everywhere, particularly in obscure languages that might otherwise die off - although we are losing languages on a regular basis.

I am saddened to hear that all this effort is being directed merely to bring a monotheistic religion like Christianity - likely the cause of more human misery than any other individual concept in history - to an ever widening audience. Its like building a tool to spread ignorance...

Which bible will be translated? (2, Insightful)

gestalt_n_pepper (991155) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004467)

The King James? The Eastern Orthodox? The Coptic? Hebrew? Syriac? Which apocrypha will be in or out? Will they charge extra for those? Get back to me on that, willya?

if only .. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39004499)

If only organized or 'enforced' religion would be stamped out once and for all, as quickly as free thinking individuality and is being stamped out, we could then get on with disposing of greed and paranoia next too, as long as people are 'taught' dogma, and taught to obey, things will remain as screwed up as they patently are.

Organized religion has no place in a no-BS, progressive society, it only serves to ingratiate those involved, keep the political status quo,
it holds and draws some people backwards, willingly, and confines thinking and keeps people passing the buck,. This god-shaped mindset, so apparent in many humans, should likely be filled perhaps *not* from an external source. like, er.. *someone else's ideas* .. because it seems rather obvious, (to me) that its not working.lets stop perpetuating the myth eh ?

Disseminating these 'texts' does seem rather, to be blindly contributing to the whole damn mess in the first place.
but i guess i shouldn't expect any better from them ..

The bible... (1, Insightful)

billybob_jcv (967047) | more than 2 years ago | (#39004513)

...A nice piece of fiction, but I wouldn't want to live my life by it.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...