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An Open Alternative To Kickstarter

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the great-cycle-of-nature dept.

Businesses 124

angry tapir writes "Crowd-funding website Crowdtilt officially launched last week, expanding upon the collective fundraising model pioneered by Kickstarter to enable raising money for any project — even a beer blitz. Like Kickstarter, Crowdtilt allows users to create a fundraising campaign with a tipping point. If the effort falls short of the set amount, would-be donors are not charged. However, unlike Kickstarter, the platform allows users to "group fund anything." Users can initiate campaigns without first getting the approval of service administrators, which they must do on Kickstarter."

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124 comments

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Group Fund Anything?! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39014493)

I'm going to start a fundraising campaign to assassinate every world leader.

In other news: Crowdtilt was just shut down.

Re:Group Fund Anything?! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39014511)

Hmm. I think you will need a prototype to start getting donations. Maybe you could invest your own money in killing one world leader and release a video of it.

Re:Group Fund Anything?! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39015343)

Fat Women: what a waste of a perfectly good vagina!

Fat Americans: because if you're going to get so fucking fat, you might as well block everyone else's way!

Oh and if you wanna be a proper Fat American Lardass, just getting in the way won't work. No, you must be totally oblivious, so you don't even know what people 3 feet away from you are doing. That way, you can suddenly dart in front of them when they're moving in a straight, predictable line and act shocked when you suddenly find yourself in their way, as if the most basic observational skills wouldn't have seen that coming. Fat, stupid, oblivious, and inconsiderate: that's the American ideal!

Re:Group Fund Anything?! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39015483)

You have some issues. Did an American murder your family or something? If not, stop acting as though people who happen to occupy a certain region of the globe are all carbon copies of each other.

Re:Group Fund Anything?! (2)

plover (150551) | more than 2 years ago | (#39014745)

I'm going to start a fundraising campaign to assassinate every world leader.

In other news: Crowdtilt was just shut down.

Art Bell, is that you?

Re:Group Fund Anything?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39016043)

Who?

A Good Use For Such A Service (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015407)

Hello, we are Russian mob... er investors, and are looking for way to laund... er raise money for many good cause, like helping Romanian prostitutes trying to get into film business and young Latvian programmers looking for equipment to write revolutionary new bank software. This seems like good solution to our crim... er investment endeavors.

Re:Group Fund Anything?! (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015745)

I'm going to start a fundraising campaign to assassinate every world leader.

Rep. Paul, I think you're taking your defeat in the CPAC straw poll a little too hard.

Assisination pool / Cryptome (1)

bd580slashdot (1948328) | more than 2 years ago | (#39016025)

I think John Young from Cryptome nominated someone or was nominated for the Chrysler Award for an anonymous assassination pool where people would bet on the day an assassination would happen, presumably because they are the killer. Then they win the pool. Cryptoanarchy bitcoiny like idea y'know?

Okay, Slashdot. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39014501)

I'm going to be objective here. If you don't believe in God, then why would you pick the banana peel of damaging nights? If you don't believe in God, then why did I come to the garbage of this place and realize that that wasn't true?

I look forward to your answers.

Re:Okay, Slashdot. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39014965)

I believe you smoked too much crack. Does that answer your question?

Open? (2)

eugene2k (1213062) | more than 2 years ago | (#39014503)

Spam ahoy!

Spam, perhaps - "just give me money", likely (5, Informative)

QuasiSteve (2042606) | more than 2 years ago | (#39014531)

I wouldn't worry so much about spam, but rather about frivolous projects.

To see what other models are like, go check out...
http://www.indiegogo.com/ [indiegogo.com]
http://rockethub.com/ [rockethub.com]
http://www.pozible.com/ [pozible.com]
http://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/ [crowdfunder.co.uk]
http://invested.in/ [invested.in]
http://fundry.com/ [fundry.com]
http://pledgie.com/ [pledgie.com]
http://www.sponsume.com/ [sponsume.com]
http://peerbackers.com/ [peerbackers.com]

Then after you're doing reading through the hundreds of projects that amount to little more than "give me money because... well, just because.", you'll probably be glad that KickStarter does some, albeit a very superficial, checking of projects.

Yes, KickStarter has its own problem projects that make it through the review process.. projektor (probably a scam), juicies (unrealistic funding vs rewards leading to a kid way in over his head), Googly Eyes (essentially selling an existing product for a premium).
But they do try, and they explicitly disallow 'good cause' type projects, which are often the "just give me money" type projects.

Nothing against 'good cause' projects when they really are for a good cause - people who need a prosthesis but can't afford one.. more power to then. But then there's the "I want to go on a trip to Europe"-types.

I'd be more afraid of that sort of thing hitting crowdtilt, than spam hitting it.

Also, for those who want a truly open alternative, set up a Wordpress site and go check out:
http://ignitiondeck.com/id/wordpress-crowdfunding/ [ignitiondeck.com]
http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/crowd-funding/ [wordpress.org]

Re:Spam, perhaps - "just give me money", likely (4, Informative)

QuasiSteve (2042606) | more than 2 years ago | (#39014639)

Replying to self - this site may have 'officially launched a week ago', but there's blog posts going back 11 months and projects going back not much more recent than that. Is this a Slashvertisement hoping to bank in on the Double Fine article from a few days back?

Also... frivolous projects seems to be the core of this site - it might technically be 'an alternative to KickStarter', but it's far more an alternative to IndieGoGo or sponsu.me, just with a funding model similar to KickStarter's.

Re:Spam, perhaps - "just give me money", likely (2)

Vintermann (400722) | more than 2 years ago | (#39018411)

To see what other models are like, go check out...

No, please don't. Those sites have worked VERY hard at advertising, so they would be named in the same breath as Kickstarter, but many of them have seriously not done their homework. The top two on your list don't even feature treshold pledge (the project creator can take any money raised), which shows they have zero understanding of the concept.

Crowdtilt at least gets that right, but they haven't learned the lesson from fundable.org, the pioneer of this business model. It was totally drowned in "My cute little labrador puppy needs expensive surgery, HELP!" begging.

It should not come as a surprise that most of these were scams. Worse, they weren't just trying to scam random sympathetic individuals who happened upon the fundable.org frontpage... criminals would use stolen credit cards to make pledges to their own projects. Once the cards were blocked and chargebacks enforced, they had already taken the money as project owners (with plausible deniability) leaving fundable with the chargeback bill. It was a major factor in killing the site.

Crowdfunding is NOT an easy thing to get right. Kickstarter should have credit for breaking the main barrier, wrapping people's mind around a new concept, getting project starters and backers to see the potential for use for creative works (something fundable.org failed miserably at due to the lab puppy spam).

Re:Open? (1)

EdIII (1114411) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015341)

I was *just* thinking I could try to fund a Spam burger with large fries.

Ooooh.. and a big bag of Chips Ahoy for desert.

Anyone want to lend me $10?

No mods?... (5, Insightful)

noobermin (1950642) | more than 2 years ago | (#39014505)

That might not be a good idea. It could become overrun by scammers early on. The idealistic "libertarian" approach might work (overtime, scammers will be recognizeable as scammers by donors more easily) but by that time the site might be discredited as a haven for scammers by the majority of would-be donors

Re:No mods?... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39014585)

This web site will have to institute some level of control if they expect to gain trust as a real, sustainable business. Simply throwing disclaimers and waivers in front of everyone does little against consumer advocacy groups, who do have clout in the legal system. And when our economy is in the shape it is in, I assume they'd have more power to protect people from getting screwed.

Re:No mods?... (1)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015021)

I think a jury would be more $ympathetic to a person scammed by a website that claims to filter out scams than a person scammed by a website which claims caveat emptor.

Re:No mods?... (4, Insightful)

MrEricSir (398214) | more than 2 years ago | (#39014669)

The problem with that is it's really obnoxious. Ever try to sell something on Craigslist? Or find a job on there?

Every time I've tried, 9/10 of the responses were scams. Not saying it wasn't pretty obvious -- Yeah, like you really want to pay $60 to ship a broken telescope and pay via Western Union? Please -- but it's more the annoyance factor. Who wants to wade through scam after scam just to weed out the real deals?

On the flip side, you get false positives as well. Hell, I've had people on Craigslist accuse me of scamming for a variety of bizarre and incomprehensible reasons.

No moderation system is perfect; but it's not hard to do better than a free-for-all.

Re:No mods?... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39014983)

I've bought and sold on Craigslist for years. One scam response a few years back. Every other exchange has been fine. Deal local. If you can't sell or buy local because the item is too niche then it's probably worth ebays cut.

Re:No mods?... (4, Interesting)

Smidge204 (605297) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015183)

I think the implications are a little more insidious. E-begging is one thing and there's nothing ethically wrong with that IMHO - at least people know you're just asking for cash to spend on yourself. But consider another possible scenario:

Step 1: Post fundraising goal of $x for some really good sounding (but fake) cause/project. ("My 2-year-old daughter has leukemia and I've been out of work for six months...")

Step 2: Wait for donations to accumulate

Step 3: If donations fail to reach tipping point, put your own money ($y) in until it does - causing third party donors to be charged and funds released.

Step 4: Vanish with ($x - $y) profit.

Get something going on Facebook and you'll have thousands of people chipping in $5 or whatever no questions asked. Granted this is possible for Kickstarter as well (would need a different cover story), but with having each donation drive screened you hopefully have some due diligence going on to verify their legitimacy. Maybe.
=Smidge=

Re:No mods?... (4, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015399)

That sort of thing happens in the real world often enough too it is a, maybe even the, classic con.

Re:No mods?... (1)

VortexCortex (1117377) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015213)

No moderation system is perfect; but it's not hard to do better than a free-for-all.

This, in response to an article about "Open Alternatives". I disagree. I believe the "free for all" approach to be superb, This is why I create Free Software (in both senses of the word "free") -- no moderation is required. Additionally, You can't be swindled out of your money if there's no money at stake. You see, there is already an "open alternative to Kickstarter", it's called doing stuff for free.

Re:No mods?... (1)

MrEricSir (398214) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015293)

Wait, wait? You mean to tell me you leave your repo writable to everyone on the internet with no registration required?

Because if you don't, then we're not talking about the same thing at all.

Re:No mods?... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39015325)

There's no money involved in your free software.

Re:No mods?... (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015941)

Hell, I've had people on Craigslist accuse me of scamming for a variety of bizarre and incomprehensible reasons.

Are you a prostitute?

[you answer "no"]

Well, that's the reason then! (drrTISH)

Re:No mods?... (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 2 years ago | (#39016723)

Every time I've gotten a response to a resume sent to Craig's List, it's been a legit job. Perhaps this differs by category (I'm a programmer), but I don't see many scam jobs- just the occasional person who thinks programming is an order of magnitude cheaper than it is.

Re:No mods?... (1)

glwtta (532858) | more than 2 years ago | (#39014889)

I'm not even sure how to differentiate a scammer from a legitimate "give me money for this thing I want" campaign.

Re:No mods?... (1)

AmberBlackCat (829689) | more than 2 years ago | (#39014977)

Moderation is a double-edged sword. Although there is the problem MrEricSir mentioned about Craigslist getting spammed, there is also the Slashdot problem. Causes that actually should get funding could be modded down because the project is hosted in China, or maybe hosted by a Black person or female, or is Christian-based, or whatever other stupid reason people get modded down. Someone would have to moderate the moderators. It would become a recursive mess that doesn't really help.

It's probably better to just let people donate to the causes they like. For unpopular projects, the lack of funding would be better than moderation.

Re:No mods?... (2)

rgbrenner (317308) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015099)

Scammers.. no kidding. This one [crowdtilt.com] literally reads like one of those nigerian emails.

Not saying that one is a scam.. but how do we know the money was donated like he says. That he didn't skim a little for himself, etc.

Re:No mods?... (1)

formfeed (703859) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015379)

Scammers.. no kidding. This one [crowdtilt.com] literally reads like one of those nigerian emails.

Definitely not a scam. "Hagan" doesn't even sound Nigerian.

But if it were real, would I want a co-worker to post my first name, last name, age, location, and the fact that I'am a single mom???

Re:No mods?... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39016193)

not just a single mom... she's in desperate need of donations to give her children christmas presents, and "does not have the means to provide necessary things like clothes and food for her family".

Re:No mods?... (4, Insightful)

rgbrenner (317308) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015117)

Cloudtilt is missing this:

A project is something finite with a clear beginning and end. Someone can be held accountable to the framework of a project — a project was either completed or it wasn’t — and there are definable expectations that everyone can agree to.

That is from Kickstarter's FAQ [kickstarter.com] . A really important idea if you're going to be donating money to strangers over the internet. Either need a way to verify it (kickstarter) or a really great reputation (redcross).. otherwise you're just asking for scammers.

Re:No mods?... (1)

QuasiSteve (2042606) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015603)

Just to counter your post a little...
When KickStarter says that 'someone can be held accountable', they pretty much do not mean themselves. They mean whoever set up the project.

From their FAQ, "Backing a Project":

At the end of the day, use your internet street smarts.

Who is responsible for making sure project creators deliver what they promise?

Every creator is responsible for fulfilling the promises of their project. Because projects are usually funded by the friends, fans, and communities around its creator, there are powerful social forces that keep creators accountable.

However, as funding does go through Amazon and in turn through Credit Card issuers, if you really think you got scammed, you can always have the charge reversed... Amazon, KickStarter and the project creator can then fight it out.

Crowdtilt actually seems to do a bit more due diligence. See also gcnaddict's comment:
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2667553&cid=39015257 [slashdot.org]

Re:No mods?... (1)

rgbrenner (317308) | more than 2 years ago | (#39016145)

Crowdtilt actually seems to do a bit more due diligence.

That sounds nice.. but take a look at this project [crowdtilt.com] .

That's a successful project on crowdtilt. How did they verify that? How did they know it wasn't a scam. Did they talk to "Tiffany Hagans" and ask how much of that money she received? Did they even check if she was real? I doubt it. I'm not even sure how they could ensure it wasn't a scam and/or that the poster didn't take a portion for himself.

At least on kickstarter, because the project has some sort of result that I can see, I would know if I was scammed. On Crowdtilt, I don't think there's anyone who could tell where the money donated to hagans actually went, or if they were scammed (even they know the guy IRL who posted it, they still wouldn't know if he skimmed some for himself).

Re:No mods?... (1)

QuasiSteve (2042606) | more than 2 years ago | (#39018129)

How can they know for sure? They probably can't. Even if they did contact her, she might be coerced to lie about it.

KickStarter projects usually end up with a 'thing' - physical, digital, a movie, a (n e-)book, etc. Which does make it easier to see if at least a project was delivered on - but you still can't know for sure that the person will deliver.. or that the 'thing' that will be delivered is 'as advertised'. That may as well be a 'scam'.

But, yes, in terms of the types of projects allowed, Crowdtilt is a lot more like IndieGoGo than KickStarter.

That said, KickStarter pretty much only seems to look at the project description and goes "seems legit" (see 'projektor' and wonder why that ever got through). Crowdtilt at least claims to do some checking into the people behind the project (through third parties or otherwise).

Re:No mods?... (1)

Zadaz (950521) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015771)

Agreed. Kickstarter is already too permissive with its projects. I have seen projects that were physically impossible, or that 10 seconds consultation with an engineer would have reduced the instigator to tears.

Now Kickstarter has made the problem slightly worse by requiring a "donation" to the project before you can post a public concern or complaint to the project's boards, but c'mon--a place where anyone can ask for money without oversight? If I want that I'll check my spam folder.

time to fund my sex party (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39014515)

Oh who am I trying to kid, it'll just take some beer, and the high school kids will supply the money for that.

will this be open to anyone or just US? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39014543)

As a non-American the thing that really annoys me about kickstarter is that its only for projects in the US. Does anyone know if this one will be any different?

Re:will this be open to anyone or just US? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39014727)

Indeed, KickStarter being USA-only is really annoying.

Re:will this be open to anyone or just US? (5, Informative)

jjbeshara (2572837) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015131)

One of the founders here - Right now, we're limited to the US (payouts outside the US is a lot for a super-young startup to take on at launch), but both my co-founder and I are very aware of needs/uses outside the US, and we hope to open it up internationally very soon. -James

assassination market (1)

nounderscores (246517) | more than 2 years ago | (#39014565)

How long before this gets used as an assassination market? Probably by using Craigslist style euphamisms (like "flower donations").

Re:assassination market (1)

godrik (1287354) | more than 2 years ago | (#39014673)

I'd love to see "flower donations" being crowd funded! Please make a video out of it!

Kickstopper (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39014599)

Kickstopper is what we really need. Thwart some bad ideas.

Re:Kickstopper (4, Funny)

Martian_Kyo (1161137) | more than 2 years ago | (#39014873)

I agree only I would call it the NutKicker

Re:Kickstopper (1)

schlachter (862210) | more than 2 years ago | (#39016553)

On Kickstart...the crowd is the Kickstopper.
Shit goes nowhere without money.

Re:Kickstopper (1)

QuasiSteve (2042606) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015671)

There was actually a blog type of site that ripped into KickStarter:
http://kickstarterwatchdog.com/ [kickstarterwatchdog.com]

But they haven't posted for over half a year and as far as I could figure at the time, this was just a sour grapes sort of guy.. upset that their own project was not accepted while others (which he claims to be akin to his) were.
( It has some valid points, but in the end the fact is that yes.. you're at the mercy of the site. Don't like it? Host your own crowdfunding site. Ironically, that's a Wordpress-powered site, so he could in fact do exactly that with the IgnitionDeck plugin. )

Of course the problem was it wasn't open enough (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39014643)

They're probably still bitter that Kickstarter didn't fund that arcade cabinet for Occupy Oakland. I won't give it too much time. Kickstarter is Kickstarter because it doesn't allow any Joe Schmoe with an idea to ask for money. You need a clear business plan. Your idea actually needs to have a chance to make money. If you don't make it on Kickstarter, that's a sign that your idea probably isn't good. Maybe this site will be good for the crazy ideas who have equally crazy backers. Only need a few people donating a lot of money on a crazy idea.

Remains to be seen (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39014729)

I wish they'd improve on the way Kickstarter organizes the projects. I tried one a year ago and after two days my linked web site hadn't received a single hit. I wanted to wait a couple of days as an experiment to see what traffic Kickstarter itself generated before I started driving traffic myself. I checked the Kickstarter web site and I couldn't find my own project. I finally found it buried half a dozen pages deep in this generic new projects section and no where else. Basically it took some real digging to find it. The site is organized like iTunes. The favored projects get fronted and everything is buried with no hope of getting funded. I found it annoying since all they were contributing was hosting for their cut and if anything they were working against the vast majority of projects so they could focus funding sources for favored ones. After two days I halted the project and never tried again. The point is unless you personally can drive enough traffic to your project it has no chance and 90% of more of the projects posted are never given a fair chance. All they are providing you with is the structure and nothing else. I thought the site was there to promote projects but it's not it's there to promote projects that they think have a chance of getting funded or that the people behind the site like. There seemed no rhyme or reason behind the selections because most were obviously popular but some never received any pledges yet they were deemed worthy of a named section. If a section says film or books it should contain ALL of the film or book projects not just the darling projects. Most won't bother to look past the named sections because they would assume that's all there is and why wouldn't they?

It's a good idea but like all things in life the insiders get the breaks and the deck is stacked against everyone else. Maybe this new site will do a better job and not become a source for the "in crowd" like Kickstarter turned into.

Re:Remains to be seen (4, Informative)

QuasiSteve (2042606) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015073)

I already commented, so if somebody wouldn't mind modding parent up - that would be appreciated.

It is very true that KickStarter doesn't really do anything in the way of promotion. The home page gets a few 'featured' projects, every once in a while they might feature something in their blog, but that's entirely the blog writer's fancy, and there's a 'staff picks' section. The rest of the site is pretty much automatically generated. So yes, new projects are not easily found by way of promotion from KickStarter.

But KickStarter, like most of the peerfunding websites, isn't really there to recommend projects, or for people to discover projects (although KickStarter certainly does offer great ways to do so, from the 'recently launched' page (which would have included your project) to the 'ending soon' pages), but simply to host them.

In fact, they probably couldn't. KickStarter gets the most new projects out of all of the peerfunding websites that I mentioned in the other post. How many? Well, on Saturday (I'm in the CET timezone), 111. They can't possibly 'promote' (by way of front-page feature or 'staff picks') all of them (which would defeat 'staff picks' as a section anyway) - never mind when you include any projects that were launched Friday... and Thursday.. and so on.

So yes, they have to cherrypick.. projects they like, and certainly projects they think will be successful. I've pointed out in a completely different story that 1 in 5 projects in the Technology and Design sections are iDevice projects. There's rational arguments for why there are more of those to begin with, but those all lead to the equally rational argument that of course KickStarter would 'promote' those over other projects.

Moreover, however, it's just not their job to 'promote' your project. Even if they did put your project on the front page, the only people who are going to see it is those who go to KickStarter directly - they're the people most likely to browse for projects as it is (and I do agree they need to make it more clear that clicking on the 'more popular projects' in a given section is what gets you to all of the projects in that section).
And there it has to compete with anything else on the front page, nevermind in other sections.
That's going to be a vastly less effective than if you promote your project yourself. You really can't expect to launch a KickStarter (or other peerfunding website) project and see pledges rolling in. You have to tweet, post to facebook, put up a website, make a kick-ass video (projects without videos tend to fare less well than those with video - people love video), etc. If you get your first backer - great, thank them with a private message, let them know that their pledge is appreciated and subtly hint that you would appreciate it even more if they told their friends about the project.
If you hit milestones, post about that at twitter/facebook/whatever. If you're working on something for your project, place it in the Updates of your project.

If you don't do any promotion.. then yes, there's little hope of your project getting funded. But you can't really blame a 'lack of promotion' by the peerfunding website for that.

And if you think that crowdtilt will do better - think again; there you will have to rely even more heavily on doing your own promotion as there isn't even an index of projects (you get to see 6 randomly chosen 'recent' ones) and their blog is recently more about their site than about any campaigns on their site that they personally like.
Maybe they'll improve the site after the /. attention, though.

Re:Remains to be seen (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39016097)

It'd be nice if they were better at sorting. Their "Discover" pages focus far too much on overfunded projects and completed projects (those projects are finished, why do I want to browse through those). You can search recently launched, or a category, but you can't search recently launched in a category.

Re:Remains to be seen (1)

am 2k (217885) | more than 2 years ago | (#39017373)

I agree, the "recently launched" section is overflowing with art and music projects, which I don't care about. The other projects are just lost in the noise.

Re:Remains to be seen (3, Interesting)

benjamindees (441808) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015151)

The point is unless you personally can drive enough traffic to your project it has no chance and 90% of more of the projects posted are never given a fair chance. All they are providing you with is the structure and nothing else. I thought the site was there to promote projects but it's not it's there to promote projects that they think have a chance of getting funded or that the people behind the site like.

This seemed really obvious from my research. Their business model is to promote projects that will bring new donors to their site, not yours.

Re:Remains to be seen (2)

SydShamino (547793) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015263)

What annoys the hell out of me is that the "newly listed" section and the topical sections are mutually exclusive. Want to look at board game projects? Sure, here are a few staff picks or some most popular. Want to look at all of them? Want to look at new ones to get in early on something promising? Oops, clicking those links pulls you out of the board games category, and you have to wade through hundreds of other uninteresting projects to spot something in your category.

That alone keeps kickstarter out of my regular website rotation. Fucking annoying.

Re:Remains to be seen (1)

QuasiSteve (2042606) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015303)

True, they could do better in that regard.

For what it's worth, if you want to look at all of them, go to a section page, scroll down to the 'popular' section on the page and click on the 'more' link. E.g.
http://www.kickstarter.com/discover/categories/board [kickstarter.com] & card games/popular?ref=more

Now scroll down until it's done dynamically loading content - there's all the projects in that section (not just the popular ones) that have been published.
They're pretty much ordered from oldest project down to latest project (the project close dates may vary).

If you have something like autopager installed, you can set up a rule to automatically load a bunch of pages. The URL format in that case is;
http://www.kickstarter.com/discover/categories/board%20&%20card%20games/popular?page=N [kickstarter.com]

But it would definitely be much more awesome if they could offer an RSS for each category.

Re:Remains to be seen (1)

vadim_t (324782) | more than 2 years ago | (#39017591)

As an user, I find it's hard to find something to contribute to.

I want filters and subscriptions -- notify me when something new in the "open source hardware" category becomes available. Notify when something new with "arduino" in it appears. Things like that.

Instead it's a site that requires me to regularly search for stuff by hand, and which ocassionally sends mail 95% composed of stuff that doesn't interest me at all.

Happy Dude (1)

Kebis (1396783) | more than 2 years ago | (#39014735)

Greetings, friend. Do you wish to look as happy as me? Well, you've got the power inside you right now. So use it. And send one dollar to Happy Dude, 742 Evergreen Terrace, Springfield. Don't delay! Eternal happiness is just a dollar away. http://ctilt.it/kfab [ctilt.it] Because somebody had to.

as means to distribute/split & coordinate paym (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39014789)

Below is an email I sent to friends that is relevant, and about a problem of which this open alternative partially solves:

(idea) payment systems: groups and individuals

The PROBLEM: organizing group travel (and other purchases) is challenging

Existing EFFORTS: There are a number of websites that are trying to make group coordinating easier (i.e., for trip planning). This is a tricky problem, to coordinate schedules and costs and expectations and it's not solved, but people are working on it. (Triphub, Tripit "groups", Triporama)

What's MISSING: One important piece I think that is being left out here: facilitating individual portions on group payments (like, when there is a package deal, e.g., a cruise that requires 4 people to a room). In those cases, one guy usually gets the idea, talks to his friends, gets the go-ahead and then makes the payment and the other people pay him back. In some cases though (like, renting a beach house or cabin that is like 3k for the week), the enterprising young friend may try to coax a larger number of friends to go, and it ultimately becomes a much harder problem to solve due to scale. Sometimes he'll even assume risk of renting the thing and only having a few people show up. Did they sign up for that risk? Did the fun loving guy? Who wants to pay 2x as much?

My PREVIOUS STRATEGIES: So I've been thinking about this "beach house" problem for at least 4 or 5 years. My ideas here have been more as a function of getting "buy in" and using some sort of algorithm similar to airplanes/hotels/megabus to try to capture the cool kids and reach critical mass, namely: differentiate the price based on the product (e.g., better room in the beach house, first class, etc); or differentiate based on when the person commits (e.g., first person, versus last person pay different amounts). While corporations have these little tricks, they're less likely to work on friends, and really only complicate an already challenging effort to coordinate an activity. Probably why you don't see me organizing any trips... :)

My LATEST THOUGHT: My latest position isn't really that novel, just like the above it's taken from existing examples. Why not improve upon the kickstarter.com idea and get pledges or buy ins at the get go? Except, instead of just being a pledge - why not restructure how payments are made on group purchases - and have it reflect the real deal?

The IDEA: The idea would be to use or make a service (like, paypal, amazon web services, google checkout), but instead of paying with a normal credit card you could have two options. First option, if merchant supported it, you could select "split payment" and then you'd solicit/spam your friends for their buy-in and portion. In the mean time, the transaction would be made "pending." The purchase would finally be "ready" once the threshold for the item or service was met ( it need not be travel; it could be toward the wedding gift that is too expensive for anybody to actually buy). For the second option, you'd pay with a "virtual credit card" that is an amalgam of the group. Dubbed as a visa, every merchant would support it. The credit limit of the card would reflect the sum of individual payments already authorized by individual members of the group. The card could also require a "reauthorize" from individual members, or not.

WHY I like this idea: Unlike other methods that might suppose a democratic solution will emerge through communicating schedules, etc, this idea let's the enterprising young friend do all the leg work, and the friends can either agree to it or not. Pretty simple. It has less tolerance effectively, but also fewer dependencies. It could still be leveraged by other trip-planning sites, and it might also be usable in domains outside trip planning (e.g., the wedding gift).

CONCLUSION: There are still a number of problems still present here in coordinating - but the idea is to make money transfer more manifest because in the end, moving money is the action that seals the deal. Like most ideas though, I have a few variants, and they're all probably just fun thought experiments. Love to hear what you think though, and hope you're having a good labor day :)

-Ed

I'm not sure I understand the need. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39014809)

The idea behind this is that Kickstarter's editorial oversight is preventing good projects from being listed. Are they? What are the canonical examples of good projects being rejected?

Re:I'm not sure I understand the need. (1)

benjamindees (441808) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015167)

From what I've seen, Kickstarter has a decidedly "artistic" bent, and projects deemed too "technical" are rejected.

So "open" now means "Americans only" (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39014843)

That's an odd definition of the word. I'll start referring to it as "open" when the rest of the world gets to participate.

Thnx.. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39014929)

Thank you for slashdot..
www.travesti.web.tr

Answering a few questions (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39014947)

Hey guys - glad to see our site's launch made it on here!

It was also awesome to see IDG pick up our TechCrunch story/ and press release, but the title of the article is pretty misleading (as well as the first few paragraphs). All press is good press for a young startup (gives us a LOT of feedback early on as we continue to build out our site/service), however the story seems to imply that this is for Kickstarter type projects... The language, both in our press release and our site, is actually explicitly different from Kickstarter's.

So just to clarify a few things for those that have asked questions:
-Crowdtilt is more of a "Kickstarter for groups of friends" (where instead of a $30,000 project, your group of friends funds a $1,200 party bus or bachelor party or wedding gift).
-It is for pooling money together, where instead of crowdfunding (many-to-one funding), it is more of a genre we call groupfunding (funded by the group, for the group)... I actually posted why we stuck with the name Crowdtilt over the other domain we own Grouptilt on Quora if anyone is interested.
-The author made a bit of a misleading statement, where he said :"Users can initiate campaigns without first getting the approval of service administrators, which they must do on Kickstarter." -- Users can start campaigns without a wall set up by us, but we do look over campaigns, and use a few other Y-Combinator backed companies for fraud prevention and identification upon starting a campaign and disbursement of funds (as well as the several measures taken by our secure payment processor PoundPay).
-The campaigns that use it for grandiose individual fundraising haven't done so well in our testing (it's not very likely for people on the internet to just fund an objective without having a clear connection to it).

Any other questions, feel free to check our FAQs or reach out to us using our Live Chat or help client. Hope this answers a few.

Thanks for posting the link to us!! Pretty huge day for something we've created (with tender, loving care) to make it on Slashdot!!

James // Khaled
crowdtilt

Re:Answering a few questions (1)

jjbeshara (2572837) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015047)

... i'm the author of the post above (one of the founders of crowdtilt); just created an account to tie the above comment to.

Re:Answering a few questions (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39015115)

Well, until you include the rest of the world, I want to say a big FUCK YOU. "Open"? What a joke. Hope your copycat site lasts about a week - allowing random retards to try and fund stupid projects while retaining the USA-only restriction is certainly no improvement on Kickstarter.

Re:Answering a few questions (5, Funny)

jjbeshara (2572837) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015253)

The author of the article chose those misleading phrases/words, and we wish he hadn't - Crowdtilt is not built to be an "alternative" to Kickstarter; and projects that would be good on Kickstarter (large, ambitious projects), would not be a good fit on our site. We just don't have the traffic or reward structure to crowdfund your video game or documentary. Also "open" is not a word we'd choose either - or that it's some type of "improvement" to the Kickstarter model. We actually think they're model is a very good one for what they do (probably the best albeit US only, which I think you can use Indiegogo to fund your project internationally). Also, as a sidenote, founders of young companies don't choose to disregard potential customer bases outside of a regions just for fun. We feel strongly that this would provide value to a lot of people outside the US, but as noted by my comment up the page (regarding international campaigns), we hope to be able to accomodate them in the very near future. Hope that helps (not really you bc you're a psych troll, but other slashdot readers that might share the same sentiments and questions).

Re:Answering a few questions (2)

QuasiSteve (2042606) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015465)

Hi James,

Thanks for taking the time to register an account and clearing up a few misconceptions.

Crowdtilt does look very well-suited to the kind of campaign you mentioned; which I call 'frivolous' in other comments - that's just my opinion, shouldn't detract from its usefulness for those looking exactly for a platform to get a group of people together to pitch in for something that they, as a group, are looking for. I do think the site has the potential to become more of an alternative to KickStarter et al, but if that's not your goal then doing what the site does best is probably better than trying to branch out and not try to excel at it.

However, I do hope you take some of the comments regarding KickStarter's flaws and apply them to your site, however - starting with making it easier to find campaigns that are more of a 'crowdfunding' campaign than a 'groupfunding' campaign, including categories and the like.
Some other peerfunding websites have shown me that the world is full of very generous people, and if you can help those people connect with those who need their aid (or money) most, I think it would make the site even better.

I totally get what you're saying, though, and the site's doing what it should be doing and doing it well (by the few projects I checked by just searching for the letter 'a', I'd say it is).

Re:Answering a few questions (4, Informative)

jjbeshara (2572837) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015977)

Hi Steve,

The comments have definitely had some great and thoughtful feedback we can take (including yours) and use in the continued development of Crowdtilt -- so, know it's being taken into account ;) -- especially the high demand for international expansion quickly. My background is actually in poverty alleviation (having studied development economics and worked in South Africa), and though we built the site originally with a 'Kickstarter for Charities' approach in ming, groups of friends started taking to the beta-version like wildfire; while the non-profits (the realm I knew and came from), would take weeks to start campaigns and would often require many meetings with administrators and boards (all the while, it kept spreading within groups of friends more and more - and they kept requesting features and giving insightful feedback).

I mention this because, early on, we made a really conscious effort to take the development of the site where the users found most value, not necessarily where *thought* it would provide most value. And this just happened to be the direction our users wanted to take Crowdtilt. Though we'd obviously love the type of success Kickstarter has had, our first users began really responding to the idea of taking elements of crowdfunding models out there and providing them to groups of friends instead - and that is where we are today.

If the user-base starts requesting a Kickstarter like model/experience, then that is the direction we would plan on taking it, but right now it seems private, smaller campaigns have been most valuable to users (the vast, *vast* majority of our campaigns are private/groups of friends that don't necessarily want their wedding gift, group vacation, or party-bus campaign to be browsed). It has actually been so overwhelmingly private, that we've wondered what real value the search has for users.

Pardon the typos from the last post (also, did not know it was html friendly!), we've been going like crazy with the growth of the site since public launch on Friday morning. But feel free to reach out to us anytime through the site.

-James

Re:Answering a few questions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39015125)

That makes more sense. So, if me and my buddies are hanging out smoking weed or drinking some natty light cause we ran out of weed, we can use this to pony up the money to make a weed run? That would be fucking awesome cuz we're totally out of weed.

Re:Answering a few questions (1)

xyzzyman (811669) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015235)

What you described is the impression I got from it. This actually comes at a good time for me to try this out, as the last 2 days I have been talking with friends and family and your site is going to make it easier. https://www.crowdtilt.com/campaigns/help-me-document-meeting-my-son [crowdtilt.com] They're happy 'cuz it's slowing me down a bit. :)

Re:Answering a few questions (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39015335)

Don't you know that posting facts and truth on /. will at most get you modded 1 or less. Especially if you post as AC. Today's /. crowd don't care for information or real insight, They just want to see who came be the biggest wanker. That's why I killed my /. account a couple of years ago. It became embarrassing to have my link on here.

Re:Answering a few questions (1)

themusicgod1 (241799) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015701)

When will bitcoin be supported as a payment mechanism? Seems to be an obviously more "secure" payment system than this PoundPay system.

Trying this out myself (1)

xyzzyman (811669) | more than 2 years ago | (#39014971)

https://www.crowdtilt.com/campaigns/help-me-document-meeting-my-son [crowdtilt.com] Lets see. If it actually goes through I'm going to have to go through with it, but it'll be something nice I can leave for him.

Re:Trying this out myself (1)

tobiah (308208) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015579)

rock on

Need a lawyer/lobbyist kickstarter (5, Insightful)

future assassin (639396) | more than 2 years ago | (#39014979)

Wanna kick ass on RIAA? Set up a kick starter for legal battles or political lobbying,

Re:Need a lawyer/lobbyist kickstarter (1)

TuringTest (533084) | more than 2 years ago | (#39016833)

Done.

http://www.wethelobby.com/ [wethelobby.com]

Re:Need a lawyer/lobbyist kickstarter (1)

TuringTest (533084) | more than 2 years ago | (#39016919)

And I must say that they aren't going well.

Their two current causes (educating the House and the Senate about Internet and excluding corporations from using "people" laws) are underfunded and running out of time. Come on Slashdot, is your money where your mouth is?

Re:Need a lawyer/lobbyist kickstarter (1)

am 2k (217885) | more than 2 years ago | (#39017411)

Uh, educating the politicians is the wrong way to go there. The politicians are well aware of the facts, and either don't care or are paid to do what they're doing. Even those fully-funded $10k would be a drop in the bucket compared to the millions the supporting parties are investing.

So what makes it "Open"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39015071)

Apart from not requiring any site admin attention before your funding effort goes live?

I can see why it looks like a lot of "Open" projects though; blatant copy of something already done successfully. But to be fair, some homeless guy with a cardboard sign saying "To be honest, I just need a beer" did it first.

No fees. Works outside of the U.S. Needs traction. (1)

Rog7 (182880) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015163)

They have no fees. They aren't tied down to Amazon payments. It looks like you can host projects from anywhere.

It sounds great honestly. The biggest problem is that Kickstarter is already so embedded as the dominant site in crowdfunding, it may be hard for Crowdtilt to get traction.

Re:No fees. Works outside of the U.S. Needs tracti (1)

QuasiSteve (2042606) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015543)

KickStarter is mostly 'dominant' in terms of people's awareness - a few high profile projects there didn't hurt (especially the last few days, of course), and they know how to work the media.

But it certainly doesn't have a monopoly, and Crowdtilt appears to target a fairly different sort of project (campaign). Even if it may never dethrone KickStarter (372 new projects over 3 random days), it may just find its own niche and instead nibble away at some of the other sites out there, such as IndieGoGo (164 new projects over the same 3 random days), with which they have much greater overlap.

Here's why it's open: (1)

gcnaddict (841664) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015257)

So I used the chat box at the bottom of the page and got this answer: [imgur.com]

We don't release the funds until we verify the campaign. If the campaign is not legitimate, we return the money. [...] At the same time, we check it from our end. We just don't put up a barrier in the sign up process.

That explains it.

A clone of a clone of a clone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39015291)

www.thepoint.com was a site for groups of people to organize and donate money, or make political statements. The people that made thepoint went to a more focused vision, and that site became www.groupon.com.

Separately, some people saw thepoint, and ripped off the idea to make www.kickstarter.com.

Ironically, now www.kickstarter.com is being ripped off by this new site, to make basically the original site that this all came from.

The internet has come full circle.

Same no-go as kickstarter (0)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015297)

"Who can use Crowdtilt?

Anybody in the United States!"

Insensitive clods...

Re:Same no-go as kickstarter (2)

wbr1 (2538558) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015513)

Then start one in your country. Simple. There are a myriad of reasons a company like this is limited to the United States, including tax reasons and scam reasons. If you don't like that brand of smoke, roll-your-own. Isn't that what the open source community is supposed to be about?

yo, dawg (3, Funny)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 2 years ago | (#39016057)

Then start one in your country. Simple.

And fund it using crowdtilt!

Re:Same no-go as kickstarter (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39018053)

Does Kickstarter bar people from outside the US. I've seen several projects that talk about international shipping.

Question (1)

johnynd77 (2531312) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015355)

What should I do to make it happen?. Fund is always interesting...^_^ Celebs Hairstyles [blogspot.com]

Save walter white (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39015677)

Just had to post it.

Great, another kickstarter (0)

viperidaenz (2515578) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015725)

When is someone going to address the market outside the USA? Sure, anyone can contribute, but it requires an American to receive the funds.

Shameless CrowdTilt Project Promotion Within... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39015801)

Just started my own (legit) project, to bring wheelchair accessible ATVs to Burning Man.

https://www.crowdtilt.com/campaigns/burning-man-bring-wheelchair-accessible-atvs-to-the-playa

Easier & faster to set up the project here than on KickStarter.

No contributions yet, but we will see what the level of interest is.

Good idea, let's not spoil it shall we?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

A hill (1)

rossdee (243626) | more than 2 years ago | (#39015957)

Riding a motorbike downhill, in gear and then let the clutch out...

Of course these days most come with electric start...

No approval process? (1)

flimflammer (956759) | more than 2 years ago | (#39016715)

Sounds like it's even easier to set up scams now.

Re:No approval process? (1)

xyzzyman (811669) | more than 2 years ago | (#39017245)

I had a discussion with support via live chat. They are watching and vetting those when needed. I've started my own campaign on there as this comes at an opportune time so we'll see. https://www.crowdtilt.com/campaigns/help-me-document-meeting-my-son [crowdtilt.com]

Open source begging (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39017215)

Nuff said.

Non-US citizens? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39017331)

Is this one available for non-US citizens? ( because Kickstarter isn't :( )

Missing Projects (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39017987)

Both sites have a critical lack of "Fund my Boob Job" projects.

I wonder if... (1)

Robmonster (158873) | more than 2 years ago | (#39018045)

... they used Kickstarter to fund their new site?

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