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Mozart and Bach Handel Subway Station Crime

Unknown Lamer posted more than 2 years ago | from the youth-flee-iron-maiden dept.

Crime 353

Hugh Pickens writes "The Minneapolis Star-Tribune reports that transit officials have started to get a handel on subway crime when they started playing Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, and Strauss at the Lake Street light-rail station after neighborhood residents complained about the station becoming a haven for rowdy teens and vagrants. 'If it encourages some people to wander away because it's not their favorite type of music, I guess that's OK,' says Acting Transit Police Chief A.J. Olson. The program is modeled after one is Portland that has shown early signs of success, though the numbers are so small as to be statistically insignificant and even supporters of the music haven't reached a consensus on whether such environmental changes actually deter crime or just push it down the block. Not everyone is sold on using 'lovely lovely Ludwig Van' as a deterrent. 'Classical music lovers hate the fact that urban planners use classical music to disperse youth,' says Minneapolis City Council Member Gary Schiff. 'Does it chase crime away?' adds Olson. 'It's hard to measure. But I do think it makes it a more pleasant place to wait for a train.'"

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So... (1)

repapetilto (1219852) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030507)

How much does it cost to do this and how much less does the city have to pay for security?

Appy-polly-loggies. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39030731)

I woke up. The pain and sickness all over me like an animal. Then I realized what it was. The music coming up from the floor was our old friend, Ludwig Van, and the dreaded Ninth Symphony.

Re:So... (5, Funny)

Canazza (1428553) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030759)

all this means is that anyone witnessing a crime there will feel like they're watching a Clockwork Orange.

Re:So... (1)

flyneye (84093) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030973)

Or...as more likely, the music will draw Clockwork Orange nutballs out of the woodwork so you can feel as though you are part of a crime in Clockwork Orange....

Re:So... (4, Interesting)

nxcho (754392) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030847)

It is probably very cheap since the music is public domain and the speakers is probably already in place. For scientific purposes they should not only compare the classical music with not music but also with a music perceived as crime inducing, such as gangsta rap.

Re:So... (1)

flyneye (84093) | more than 2 years ago | (#39031005)

Yes the music is in the public domain, but not the performance. The need for music once again shows the folly of copyright. Forever music is naturally free .live performance is paid and there is no workable in-between for a parasite to thrive. Kicking the shit out of music industry lackeys in the subway is not only necessary, but encouraged.( The tourists will love it)

Re:So... (4, Interesting)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 2 years ago | (#39031009)

Rock/Rap are variants that have stemmed from minalist music. Their appeal musically (when you ignore the words) is a more primal emotion. Clasical period music was designed to express more complex set of emotions.
Teens in general are just full of primal emotions so they are attracted by rock and rap, when they get older and their primal forces cool down they start to enjoy classical music as it begins to reach them emotionally.
Now when kids are exposed to the music it gets their brain working as it exercises those emotions that are not much in practice. So they will leave as some how the exersize is too much for them to handle, or they will try to embrace it and giving more work to the brain and temporary quelling those primal urges.

Re:So... (4, Insightful)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 2 years ago | (#39031133)

There's plenty of classical music with emotional depth less than http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABWyXKT5qt4 [youtube.com] , and plenty of rock with highly layered complexity.

I think a lot of it has to do with identity; teens are typically looking for something to distinguish themselves from their parents yet associate with their peers. A musical style which is not like previous music styles is an ideal medium to do so, especially if their parents hate it. This has been the case for many generations, including what we now call "classical music".

As a nice side effect, this produces a constant stream of musical (re)-invention with the occasional masterpiece that every person could enjoy.
The rest will be forgotten just like all mediocre musicians/composers/artists in times of classical music.

Re:So... (3, Insightful)

windcask (1795642) | more than 2 years ago | (#39031153)

Rock/Rap are variants that have stemmed from minimalist music.

...no. There is certainly rock music out there that incorporates elements of minimalist music, but rock came directly from blues, which came from a combination of jazz, folk and Christian gospel music.

Re:So... (2, Interesting)

slim (1652) | more than 2 years ago | (#39031179)

Patronising, over-general and wrong, in my opinion.

Some rock and hip-hop is indeed very basic and primal, and good luck to 'em. The Stooges can get the juices flowing as effectively as Wagner (presumably this tube station isn't playing Ride Of The Valkyries in an attempt to calm teenagers down...).

Some rock and hip-hop is vastly more rhythmically, emotionally and tonally sophisticated than any of the popular Bach, Mozart, Handel, Beethoven era works. The post-Kid-A Radiohead albums would have many people scurrying back to The Magic Flute for something less emotionally and technically challenging. Jimi Hendrix throws more sophisticated chords into a single song than you'll hear in the whole of Don Giovanni.

I'm old enough to have "cooled down" into classical music by now. I think there are probably 20th century composers I could enjoy -- Shostakovich perhaps. But when I listen to the big names, I find it all a bit pedestrian; hemmed in to a few conventional harmonic structures and a fixed sonic palette.

Re:So... (2)

mcavic (2007672) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030895)

They'll probably still need the same number of security people. But reduced crime is a benefit in itself. More people willing to ride the subway means more revenue. More tourism maybe, fewer people in jail soaking up tax dollars, etc.

Re:So... (2)

slim (1652) | more than 2 years ago | (#39031189)

More people willing to ride the subway means more revenue.

What about the people (of all ages) less willing to ride the subway because of the irritating music?

Re:So... (5, Interesting)

SomePgmr (2021234) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030993)

Every train station I've seen, including simple platforms, has most of the equipment for this anyway. In this case you've just got music playing the whole time and some kind of ducker to quash the music when the announcements play.

They may not know for sure if it's working yet, but this seems like one of the least complicated or expensive options to try out. It certainly beats hiring more security, the presence of which only makes things seem worse.

Re:So... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39031187)

It may increase the cost for criminals -- they have to dress up like going to a concern before committing petite crimes.
Jokes aside. I think this is a good idea.

Handel..an english word? (5, Informative)

fiaskow (1685940) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030513)

Maybe they got a 'Händel' on crime.

Re:Handel..an english word? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39030599)

Congratulations. You saw what they did there.

Re:Handel..an english word? (1)

Moskit (32486) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030661)

That one, or "Haendel". Or maybe simply "handle". In the current form this isn't really a play on words.

Re:Handel..an english word? (5, Funny)

u38cg (607297) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030683)

Maybe it'll make the criminals Bach off.

Re:Handel..an english word? (5, Funny)

Scarletdown (886459) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030711)

It may initially drive them away. But as they are leaving, they warn that they'll be bach.

Re:Handel..an english word? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39030761)

If they come Bach, a Tazer and a bit Mo' ZART should do the trick.

Re:Handel..an english word? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39030869)

The they'll be Haydn somewhere else.

Re:Handel..an english word? (4, Funny)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030923)

.. or back Orff.

Re:Handel..an english word? (5, Funny)

pr0nbot (313417) | more than 2 years ago | (#39031071)

Do we really have to liszt all the puns?

Re:Handel..an english word? (2)

mrvan (973822) | more than 2 years ago | (#39031107)

Wollt ihr den totalen Grieg?

Re:Handel..an english word? (2)

Ol Biscuitbarrel (1859702) | more than 2 years ago | (#39031137)

We're Raveling in our cleverness this morning.

Re:Handel..an english word? (1)

codeButcher (223668) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030781)

I believe he (or "they") spelled it without the umlaut in his English phase.

Re:Handel..an english word? (1)

ndogg (158021) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030913)

It certainly seems to cause some miscreants to turn Bach around and walk away.

Re:Handel..an english word? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39030947)

It certainly seems to cause some miscreants to turn Bach around and waltz away.

FTFY

What? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39030519)

[...]has shown early signs of success, though the numbers are so small as to be statistically insignificant [...]

In other words, no significant effect of the music on crime statistics has been measured. Or am I missing something?

What, "What"? (4, Insightful)

captainpanic (1173915) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030577)

Since when do the real numbers matter? What really matters is that some politician has shown to "Fight against Crime" (note the capital letters, those are important).

People demand that action is taken against the nuisances and crime. Whether the action actually works is really not so important, as the results of pretty much every election around the world show.

A feeling of safety is far more emotional than rational. So, go away with your statistics, and leave us emotional non-rational people alone.

And obviously, in about a year from now, we demand Action against Crime. Again.

Re:What? (1)

nospam007 (722110) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030775)

"Or am I missing something?"

Yep, the copyright has expired for those songs, that's the real reason.

Re:What? (1)

Sulphur (1548251) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030911)

[...]has shown early signs of success, though the numbers are so small as to be statistically insignificant [...]

In other words, no significant effect of the music on crime statistics has been measured. Or am I missing something?

Does the MAFIAA know about this?

Re:What? (1)

mcavic (2007672) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030917)

In other words, no significant effect of the music on crime statistics has been measured.

It means they have seen an effect, but it's just one city, and a small number of people. Theoretically it could be attributed to something else, like say a change in air quality.

Kids have no taste in music? (1)

gweihir (88907) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030521)

Must be a sign of the times. The risk here is of course that others will be turned away from classical music because it starts to remind them of the subway....

Re:Kids have no taste in music? (2)

Rockoon (1252108) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030595)

...subway.. elevator.. is there a real difference?

Re:Kids have no taste in music? (1)

Sulphur (1548251) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030899)

...subway.. elevator.. is there a real difference?

Elevators go nearly straight.

--

If the rails were laid end-to-end, it would be a big improvement.

Lower crime rate is a bonus (5, Insightful)

lorinc (2470890) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030523)

The first and foremost advantage is to have a pleasant wait for your train. I would love to have classical music at my train stations.

If it can act as a deterrent for inamical people, I take it as a bonus.

Re:Lower crime rate is a bonus (1)

mitashki (1116893) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030573)

...was just sneaking behind you having my eyes on that purse and... no...NO....Nooooooo...that Mozart sonata again!!!

Re:Lower crime rate is a bonus (2)

mrxak (727974) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030629)

I suddenly have visions of A Clockwork Orange-style brainwashing ruining perfectly good Beethoven for ultraviolent youths.

Re:Lower crime rate is a bonus (1)

greg1104 (461138) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030765)

Whenever they hear classical music afterwards, it will remind them of their time in copland.

Re:Lower crime rate is a bonus (4, Informative)

xaxa (988988) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030691)

They've done this at a few London Underground stations since 2005 [guardian.co.uk] and since 2004 [bbc.co.uk] on the Tyne and Wear Metro.

In London, the music was played over the existing announcement system's speakers, so it was horribly distorted. Fortunately, it was only around the station entrance, not the actual platforms, so I could wait in peace.

Re:Lower crime rate is a bonus (3, Informative)

chrb (1083577) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030965)

They do it in Brussels too. [bbc.co.uk] The classical music is played on the Metro there in evenings, during the day they play English language pop (no French or Dutch to avoid antagonising people). I'm not aware of any crime statistics, but a local told me that when they introduced it she did notice a big effect on the groups of youths that used to hang around the stations. The article says something similar about this latest experiment, "Young people quit hanging out at one Portland station 'almost immediately' after classical music began playing, Scruggs said."

Re:Lower crime rate is a bonus (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | more than 2 years ago | (#39031245)

For some reason groups of menacing youths don't hang around on the Japanese metro, so there is no need for music. Perhaps we should look at fixing the cause rather than treating the symptom.

Re:Lower crime rate is a bonus (1)

jiriki (119865) | more than 2 years ago | (#39031057)

Same in Hamburg/Germany.

I like classical music. But this distorted mess coming from the speakers is just awful (combined with the fact, that highly dynamic music is not suited for noisy environments).
Probably all young people are deterred by this, because they can still hear all frequencies, while most older people (40+) cannot.

So thanks a lot. Either install reasonable good speakers or quit annoying me. The current situation will just lead to all young people hating classical music.

Re:Lower crime rate is a bonus (1)

smchris (464899) | more than 2 years ago | (#39031211)

I think the horrible speakers are an important factor in Minneapolis as well.

Re:Lower crime rate is a bonus (2)

gmack (197796) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030813)

That is provided the do it consistently. There is a convenience store on the west island of Montreal that does this. Outside they were playing a nice symphony on shockingly good speakers but inside they were playing annoying pop music. Never before in my life have I found standing outside a store so much more enjoyable than inside.

The new Superhero team has been formed (3, Funny)

mitashki (1116893) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030547)

Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, and Strauss - The Gangbusters

Re:The new Superhero team has been formed (1)

Penguinshit (591885) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030673)

The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen!

Re:The new Superhero team has been formed (1)

mitashki (1116893) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030741)

Would have used the same name but was cautious of all possible Copywrite + SOPA/PIPA/ACTA laws to which I may be subject as a result of doing the aforementioned violation.

Not a new - or a particularly great - idea (4, Insightful)

RogueyWon (735973) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030549)

This isn't a particularly new idea. I know that certain shopping centres here in the UK have been using it for quite some time.

I've got mixed feelings. It's certainly unpleasant to have large groups of feral youths hanging around shopping centres and in principle, something that encourages them to be elsewhere without much fuss is a good thing. On the other hand... it just shifts the problem around. I'd rather have the gang of feral youths stood menacingly inside the brightly lit CCTV-infested shopping centre than in the unlit, unguarded car park outside.

At least using music for this is better than some of the alternatives. I know that one idea that was briefly used was high pitched noise emitters - the theory being that with young people generally being able to hear higher ranges than adults, only they would be irritated by the noise. I objected to this one very strongly indeed - the noise was outright painful (my hearing is odd - I'm bad at sorting conversation from background noise, but seem to have retained my ability to hear very high ranges) and it was indiscriminate. It was offensive to the "good kid" going shopping for their parents as it was to the feral youth looking for his next mugging victim. I seem to remember that particular trick had to be pulled due to legal reasons.

I guess I also have some gut concerns about whether this impinges on rights such as freedom of assembly. I guess if it's being used on private property, then it's fine. On subways... that seems a bit more morally dubious.

And as for the choice of music... I don't think classical music lovers should be particularly offended. Though as somebody who is relatively fond of classical music, I will admit that taken out of place, it can be intrusive. Anybody reading this who commutes through London's Victoria Station will be aware that every few weeks they have some opera singer (and supporting instrumentation) there, collecting money for a cancer research charity. I know it's for a good cause and I shouldn't whinge but... when you're waiting for a delayed train and just want to get home after a long day, the singing, while perfectly "cultured", due to its volume and pitch, can be as intrusive and offensive as blazingly loud gangsta rap would be.

Re:Not a new - or a particularly great - idea (2)

jlar (584848) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030605)

Here is a link for a previous slashdot article on something similar:

http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/03/04/0258221/using-classical-music-as-a-form-of-social-control [slashdot.org]

But maybe it is in fact just driving the youth away and not just criminal types:

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/05/11/30/0021211/driving-away-teens-with-high-frequency-noise [slashdot.org]

Re:Not a new - or a particularly great - idea (1)

Theophany (2519296) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030625)

But maybe it is in fact just driving the youth away and not just criminal types

Fine by me, children are obnoxious.

Now if they could play something to get rid of all the slow walkers too, that would be perfect!

Re:Not a new - or a particularly great - idea (1)

Sulphur (1548251) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030801)

But maybe it is in fact just driving the youth away and not just criminal types

Fine by me, children are obnoxious.

Now if they could play something to get rid of all the slow walkers too, that would be perfect!

Pushers. No, not that kind; the kind that shove.

Re:Not a new - or a particularly great - idea (1)

MrNemesis (587188) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030745)

They've been playing classical music at Brixton tube station for at least two or three years, on and off, and only in the evening I think.

Unfortunately, the PA system is so uniformly shitty that it doesn't sound much better than the tinny music coming out of kids mobiles. Would be much nicer if they could give the lady violinist with dreadlocks who I often see at Stockwell a permanent spot.

Re:Not a new - or a particularly great - idea (1)

martin-boundary (547041) | more than 2 years ago | (#39031019)

I'd rather have the gang of feral youths stood menacingly inside the brightly lit CCTV-infested shopping centre than in the unlit, unguarded car park outside.

You know, Those youths can buy milk in those shopping centres, and if you couple that with the classical music, well, this could all turn ugly like clockwork. I just don't think that kind of approach is very fruitful in the long run.

Re:Not a new - or a particularly great - idea (1)

Suferick (2438038) | more than 2 years ago | (#39031225)

It's even worse in December, when some well-meaning but not very competent choir starts singing carols. there's only so much you can put up with for 'charidee'.

hardly news (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39030551)

How is this even news?
Other stations have been doing this for years.

Frankston in Melbourne, Aus (not a nice place to be, last time I checked) had to cover speakers with protective cages, as the youth discovered if you smash the sound source, the music would stop.

Brian Eno (1)

korgitser (1809018) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030559)

I would also go with Eno's "Music for Airports". A wonderful piece that does wonders with the stressful atmosphere of contemporary travel.

Re:Brian Eno (4, Informative)

nanoflower (1077145) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030735)

They can't do that because they would have to pay for every time they played any of the songs. One of the advantages of using Bach, Handel and Mozart is that no one is collecting royalties on their music and you can find royalty free performances. So they can play the music 24/7 without having to pay anyone for that performance.

Re:Brian Eno (1)

demonlapin (527802) | more than 2 years ago | (#39031109)

But if you already have ASCAP and BMI licenses, it's effectively free.

Re:Brian Eno (2)

rioki (1328185) | more than 2 years ago | (#39031209)

That is not totally true. They need to pay the people who performed/made for the recording. Sure the royalties are not as base. In addition many have some blanket deals for music in public places, these are quite affordable no matter what music you play.

Won't work (5, Funny)

hippo (107522) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030563)

Just moves the crime so its haydn somewhere else.

Re:Won't work (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39030665)

It could be. It could even be that listening to classical music (if chosen sensibly) could calm them down and so make them every so slightly less likely to do bad things? After all airlines take great care over the background music that they play on planes and have a range of types for different situations - ever noticed how they play calming tunes when passengers are liable to get a bit tense?

Re:Won't work (3, Interesting)

PerformanceDude (1798324) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030767)

Yeah - a couple of years ago I was on a Malaysia Airlines flight out of Mumbai. We were still on the ground when all of a sudden the PA system went: "This is an emergency. Oxygen masks will drop from the compartment above your head. Please place one over your face and ensure that the is securely fastened before assisting other passengers and children". The next thing that happened was the PA playing "The Girl from Ipanema". My only thought was that in a genuine emergency the last thing I will hear while "going down" is a piece of elevator music. How thoughtfully ironic!!!

Re:Won't work (2)

cc1984_ (1096355) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030689)

You think you're so funny, but loitering in chopin complexes is no joke

Re:Won't work (3, Funny)

MadKeithV (102058) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030725)

You think you're so funny, but loitering in chopin complexes is no joke

It's not very high on my lizst.

Re:Won't work (1)

greg1104 (461138) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030757)

To track where they go, youths will also be added to a government watch liszt.

Re:Won't work (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39030779)

If the shop owners just had dogs that would Offenbach...

Re:Won't work (1)

balaband (1286038) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030891)

Yup, just a matter of time before they are bach and chopin some old lady purse...

More news for nerds! (-1, Troll)

gatzke (2977) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030613)

This site is awesome! The Tech stuff just keeps getting better and better. I feel like I learn something every day!

Clockwork Orange (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39030617)

Droogs love doing ultra-violence and Beethoven.

Re:Clockwork Orange (2)

mrxak (727974) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030643)

Clearly the Ludovico Technique is required to make this subway program actually work.

Re:Clockwork Orange (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 2 years ago | (#39031127)

"sorry; no time for the in-out, love. just come to read the meter!"

nice. age racism on the rise. (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39030623)

Are we sure some age groups have the right to change the environment to their favour? Make places unsuitable for skateboarding, use classical music, install benches instead of swings, do the elderly have the right to make everything suitable for themselves?

How is this different from the case, when young people put their own art on the walls? The law? What law? The one that is also made by the above 50 to their own needs?

vajk

Re:nice. age racism on the rise. (3, Informative)

Kell Bengal (711123) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030669)

The word you're looking for is 'ageism' [wikipedia.org]

Hate it. (3, Informative)

slim (1652) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030747)

I'm 38 years old. Definitely not a troublemaker. I have a legitimate reason to be waiting at train stations.

And I hate Handel and Mozart. Why should I be subjected to it?

Also, I can clearly hear those high pitched "mosquito" tones that are meant to disperse young people. Again, why should I be subjected to it?

And what about law abiding young people?

Re:Hate it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39031067)

Precisely - it's noise pollution, regardless of what music they're playing. Music you don't like is a constant irritation, and it's wrong to think that most people find classical music inoffensive.

Calming tunes (1)

reluctantjoiner (2486248) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030805)

Maybe they should have supplied Meyerbeer.

Keeps the Lawyers Away, Too (2)

guttentag (313541) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030817)

Playing classical music that is no longer protected by copyright and performed for the purpose of free redistribution/public performance keeps the IP lawyers away. They can't stand to hear anything that cannot be used as the basis of a lawsuit. Interestingly enough, keeping the lawyers off the streets may reduce crime more than keeping rowdy teens away.

We may be on to something here... what can we play in public places to keep bank execs away? Anyone have audio transcripts of Congressional inquiries into the subprime mortgage crisis [gpoaccess.gov] ? I'd like to play that loudly on my phone the next time I'm standing in line at the bank... if everyone did that, it would be better than a sea of Guy Fawkes masks.

spaces (1)

Kombinat (805502) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030837)

Would be more intelligent to invest some money to give the kids some places and opportunities, instead of chasing them around. A club, workshop or hackerspace for instance.

Like Anti-bacterial Soap (2)

retroworks (652802) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030859)

It will work for awhile. But once everyone starts doing it everywhere, a new strain of harpsichord-loving crack dealer will emerge and be more difficult to eradicate. They'll try changing the music to polka, which will work for awhile. The city needs to decide who the people are and talk to them. Otherwise these effects are like a bright kitchen light on cockroaches, it doesn't get to the root of the city's problems. Who knows, maybe these kids are like the hippies whom city elders wanted off the lawns and parks in 1966. Maybe there's a Steve Jobs or Wozniak milling around under the streetlights. I know a lot of really nice high school kids who'd probably leave if you played classical music at them... which was always the problem with that soap, it killed the good bacteria and let staph grow in its place.

Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39030861)

I know it has been said before, but i'd like stress on this once more.

Instead of trying to chase away teenagers with criminal tendency, why aren't they looking for ways to prevent it? It's clearly an educational problem. It won't help if you chase them away with classical music, batons or pressurized water. You should help them instead.

Classical Music Generation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39030881)

Perhaps this will give rise to a new generation of young criminals with a love for classical music.

This is not new (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39030887)

This has been going in on Denver and Aurora, Colorado for YEARS with good results.

The outlaws will wear earphones (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39030909)

So this makes everyone wearing earphones a possible suspect!

Uhm.... (1)

Gideon Wells (1412675) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030927)

"...such environmental changes actually deter crime or just push it down the block. Not everyone is sold on using 'lovely lovely Ludwig Van' as a deterrent."

So somewhere, some when there is a person who believes a little Bethoven will so move teenage youth to give up all crime, and become law abiding citizens. And they say the perpetual youth are the delusional.

Haha it does indeed scare teens away. (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030929)

For some reason, people have an apathy to this kind of music when they are young. when older, its different.

A question of class (2)

jandersen (462034) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030949)

Hopefully, over time, this will attract a better class of muggers.

Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
Galloping through the sward
Dennis Moore, Dennis Moore
And his horse Concorde
He steals from the rich
And gives to the poor
Mr. Moore, Mr. Moore, Mr. Moore

does this give a clue ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39030971)

Bad music influence crime ?
No, violent games are not a reason for teen violence, but.

Does the music criminal minds listens have an influence on them ?
No, only idiots get influenced by music and all you know. But arent many crimals idiots ?

Why are black composers underrepresented? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39030977)

Whomever chose the music library is definitely showing racially-preferential tendencies.

I was going to contradict - how wrong I was! (1)

Chrisq (894406) | more than 2 years ago | (#39031029)

Whomever chose the music library is definitely showing racially-preferential tendencies.

Your comment educated me. I was about to point out that there were not any black composers, but decided to check. how wrong I was [homestead.com] . Listen to this beautiful composition [youtube.com] as an example.

Re:Why are black composers underrepresented? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39031199)

Considering they do the same thing in Brixton, which is probably one of the, if not the, most culturally diverse areas in the world, I doubt it is racially motivated, more likely they just pick the "well known" composers.

Linux Trojan: Linux/Bckdr-RKC 02-2012 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39030979)

http://pastebin.com/DwtX9dMd [pastebin.com]

- http://www.sophos.com/en-us/threat-center/threat-analyses/viruses-and-spyware/Linux~Bckdr-RKC.aspx [sophos.com]
- http://tinyurl.com/Linux-Bckdr-RKC [tinyurl.com]

Category: Viruses and Spyware
Protection available since: 22 Dec 2011 08:23:46 (GMT)
Type: Trojan
Affected Operating Systems: Linux
© 1997 - 2012 Sophos Ltd.

wah wah (1)

SeaFox (739806) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030985)

'Classical music lovers hate the fact that urban planners use classical music to disperse youth,' says Minneapolis City Council Member Gary Schiff.

Oh, God. Another group of fucking elitists. Instead of being happy more people are exposed to classical music they're going to complain. "No! Don't use our favorite thing on the masses! They aren't sophisticated enough to appreciate this music." They're just like the Apple fans upset the new iPhone doesn't look significantly different from the previous model so they can differentiate themselves.

Change of crime statistics (1)

ATestR (1060586) | more than 2 years ago | (#39030989)

They're just hoping to get a better class of criminals.

Well, it worked in a clockwork orange (1)

Chrisq (894406) | more than 2 years ago | (#39031001)

Perhaps we could extend this to a treatment for offenders.....

"have started to get a handel on subway crime" (0)

Arancaytar (966377) | more than 2 years ago | (#39031031)

....

-_-

An alternative... (2)

windcask (1795642) | more than 2 years ago | (#39031115)

They could, as an alternative, start playing avant-modern classical, like Penderecki, Webern, Xenakis. The subway station with the least crime is the one with no patrons at all.

correlation is not causation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39031249)

I can think of at least 5 different reasons this would work, none of which is "it's not their favorite type of music."
1. environmental cues. I am personally less likely to order a hamburger at an establishment playing classical music than I am at one playing rock : ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL. (i.e. the same establishment, the same location, the same waiter, EVERYTHING equalized). It's a classy thing. Maybe I'm less likely to assault someone too?
2. market cues. At a place that's playing classical music, there is a lot more likely to be a security (even if in fact there is none), just like an upscale mall, expressly because there's security around the very rich, even if I don't see them. So I'd better be on-guard (it's a risk-reward criminal thing).
3. maybe I like it too much to deface with crime. Maybe I'm a lot less likely to commit crime at a place that is not horribly poverty-stricken. Maybe I love it too much to deface or destroy with violence.
4. maybe I recall a better period of my life, when I could have heard such music. This would be the same if they played champagne glasses clinking. maybe the thieves haven't always been so down on their luck
5. maybe I still have some choices and aspirations. maybe putting Gucci shop-windows there have the exact same effect.

I can go on and on. But guess what. One of the possible reasons nicely includes "poor violent people don't have taste"...they just don't like this music. so that's the one the summary goes with.

personally, I think teens are the most susceptible of all, to environmental cues about how to behave.

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