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117 comments

Common sense (4, Insightful)

sadness203 (1539377) | more than 2 years ago | (#39062829)

Everywhere but not in America!

Re:Common sense (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39063177)

American politicians had the common sense to present a decoy (SOPA/PIPA) first :>

Re:Common sense (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39063205)

Yeah but they underestimated that EU citizens are not fucking stupid, and doped up on high fructose corn syrup and anti-depressants.

Re:Common sense (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39063301)

+1 awesome characterization

Re:Common sense (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39063573)

Did you really, really parse what you praised?

Re:Common sense (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39063777)

really, really necessary?

Dope! (5, Funny)

zooblethorpe (686757) | more than 2 years ago | (#39063887)

Yeah but they underestimated that EU citizens are not fucking stupid, and doped up on high fructose corn syrup and anti-depressants.

You forgot all the Adderall. [slashdot.org]

C'mon, kids -- you know the schtick! Better Living Through Chemistry!

(...goes and hides in his den and looks for that Canuckistan immigration packet...)

Re:Dope! (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39064939)

welcome to ACTA north, currently being quietly forced through parliament AGAINST the will of the CITIZENS. Text has been presented to the Canuckistan government in secret, after text had been prepared by FOREIGN agitators, influencing OUR way of life. Everyone, do the world a favour and kill and American politician, executive, or lawyer.

Re:Dope! (2)

alexo (9335) | more than 2 years ago | (#39067453)

And the moral of the story: NEVER EVER give any Canadian political party a majority. They cannot be trusted with it.

Re:Dope! (1)

Apothem (1921856) | more than 2 years ago | (#39065759)

I would more say that it's the parents who are paranoid as to why their kids 'aren't doing well enough'. Most parents who get over-involved with their kids lives end up putting them through that anyway. Oh and if the kid has too much energy, the parents think there is something else wrong and try to give you more meds to calm you down. It's a sad truth, but it really is just one more point of evidence to show that the current education system just isn't working. I mean, you really expect young children to sit still for more than an hour for school without wanting to explode half the time?

Re:Common sense (5, Funny)

Higgins_Boson (2569429) | more than 2 years ago | (#39064997)

Back in MY day we didn't have high-fructose corn syrup and anti-depressants!

No! All we had was cocaine, marijuana and LSD for our depression and nothing but pure, sweet honey harvested by Cuban children to tame our cravings for sweets.

Re:Common sense (1)

SpongeBob Hitler (1848328) | more than 2 years ago | (#39067875)

Back in MY day we didn't have high-fructose corn syrup and anti-depressants! No! All we had was cocaine, marijuana and LSD for our depression and nothing but pure, sweet honey harvested by Cuban children to tame our cravings for sweets.

Ug. You forgot the obligatory "And we were thankful!"

Corn Syrup and Anti-Depressants (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39065593)

Hey, I resemble that remark!

Actually, yes, in America too. (5, Informative)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 2 years ago | (#39064399)

I don't know how or why people have kept missing this, but the United States has not ratified ACTA either, and there is about zero chance it is going to.

A U.S. representative signed it, but it was never ratified.

Pull your heads out, folks.

Re:Actually, yes, in America too. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39069601)

The RIAA will just bulldoze it through, it's not a question of if, but when!

Re:Common sense (4, Informative)

poity (465672) | more than 2 years ago | (#39064843)

Summary is not entirely correct. Germany, Poland, Netherlands did not also "drop" ACTA, they delayed proceeding on it in pursuit of further clarification. Their actions are not the same as Bulgaria's. There are still internal conflicts in the governments of those countries and ratification is still likely after amendment. I understand there is a desire on slashdot to portray an unstoppable tide of anti-ACTA sentiment in Europe, but we can't make up what we want.

Re:Common sense (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39066929)

Effects of ACTA in EU are not entirely correct either... in fact in most countries from EU and in light of decisions mentioned here http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/16/us-court-socialmedia-netlog-idUSTRE81F0WI20120216 2 major points people bitch about ACTA would not apply - short version of that is a site cannot be enforced to police it's users by default and neither can an ISP...

Anyway, most of states in EU have more tight regulations than those outlined in ACTA regarding protection of intellectual property already in place for some time...

Re:Common sense (2, Insightful)

Kamiza Ikioi (893310) | more than 2 years ago | (#39064847)

The US already has the DMCA, so it matters little if it's ratified here. ACTA was to impose the DMCA on other countries. From what I've seen, ACTA adds nothing new. As many tech pundits have already pointed out, DMCA works well in the US because of Constitutionally guaranteed freedoms that many European countries lack, which would make their version of a DMCA relatively unhindered from becoming downright draconian.

Bad for Europe, a shoulder shrug for the US.

Re:Common sense (2)

DragonWriter (970822) | more than 2 years ago | (#39065441)

As many tech pundits have already pointed out, DMCA works well in the US

Say what?

Re:Common sense (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39065745)

Leo Laporte, for one.

Re:Common sense (2)

colinrichardday (768814) | more than 2 years ago | (#39066551)

Perhaps DragonWriter was questioning the claim that it worked well, not the claim the texh pundits said it worked well.

Re:Common sense (2)

Pieroxy (222434) | more than 2 years ago | (#39065521)

Europe has a directive called EUCD (the very equivalent of the DMCA) that has been ratified around 2006 and laws have popped up in every country for the application. It is now very much in effect in all of the EU countries.

Re:Common sense (1)

ProzacPatient (915544) | more than 2 years ago | (#39066409)

The EU is more interested in countering real problems like human trafficking rather then searching everyone's iPods for "illegal" mp3's on behalf of the MAFIAA.

Re:Common sense (2)

dumuzi (1497471) | more than 2 years ago | (#39066655)

By America I presume you are including Canada, as we also have no common sense. Remember this [slashdot.org] and this [slashdot.org] and this [slashdot.org] and this [slashdot.org] , all recent articles from slashdot about Canada's boneheadedness.

Another one bites the dust... (1)

lcam (848192) | more than 2 years ago | (#39062831)

At this rate ACTA will go the way of the dodo bird.

Re:Another one bites the dust... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39062909)

Last seen in the United States?

Need non-EU contries to reject it to die. (4, Informative)

pavon (30274) | more than 2 years ago | (#39063043)

It looks like ACTA is pretty much dead in the EU, as it will only enter into force if all the EU countries agree to it unanimously. However, it will still remain in force for the other signatories as long as at least 6 states sign it. So far United States, Australia, Canada, Japan, Morocco, New Zealand, Singapore, and South Korea have all signed it, so at least three of those need to back out for the treaty to die completely.

Re:Need non-EU contries to reject it to die. (5, Insightful)

mycroft16 (848585) | more than 2 years ago | (#39063099)

With SOPA and PIPA, they were all the internet talked about for days leading up to the blackout... the word was effectively gotten out. With ACTA, no one is talking about it or what it means. We need that same level of dialogue. We need front page announcements on reddit, wikipedia, etc. PCIP is also a new one working through the House and Senate that involves creating a database of ip->customer mappings and tracking web history for 18 months to look for illegal activity. Not getting talked about either. We really need to keep up on what's going through Congress and other governmental agencies and kill them long before they are days from a vote. They shouldn't make it out of committees, or even into committees.

They are just bound and determined... (5, Insightful)

cayenne8 (626475) | more than 2 years ago | (#39063195)

...to take all the fun out of the internet.

Man...glad I was here to see the wild west days of it back in '92-'93 and just after that.

Then again, I remember going to the gates at airports to greet people as they got off the plane, and even before metal detectors going to the gates.

Sigh...the US use to be a much more free place.

Re:They are just bound and determined... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39063587)

Sigh...the US use to be a much more free place.

The US was always a crazy place. You just had enough luck (lack of a standing army during peacetime) to bypass the great fascist/communist systems of the 20th century. Of course since then you've defintely jumped the shark and are at work to come up to date to what the SS, Stazi, NKVD etc... all used to do to their populace decades ago.
So today the US is a less free in an absolute sense, but its also much less free than the EU.
At least we europeans learned the lesson and now mostly keep at bay fascist tendencies. The US not so much.

Re:Need non-EU contries to reject it to die. (3, Insightful)

sgent (874402) | more than 2 years ago | (#39064713)

Very unlikely to happen in the US. The administration hasn't even submitted it to congress for ratification yet. Also, remember treaties need 2/3 support of the senate, and there are an easy 34 senators that oppose this.

Re:Need non-EU contries to reject it to die. (4, Interesting)

pavon (30274) | more than 2 years ago | (#39067513)

Except that administration is claiming that they don't need senate confirmation to ratify the treaty. So the US will be counted among the 6 needed at least initially. Furthermore to be over-tuned in the courts, someone will have to show standing. Since ACTA does not require the implementation of any new laws in the US, that will be hard to do. The only thing I can think of is if a Senator sued because the treaty limited their ability to change the law. But even then I could see the courts denying standing, unless a law contradicting ACTA is actually passed.

Get a clue. (2)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 2 years ago | (#39064423)

The U.S. hasn't ratified it, either! That puts in in exactly the SAME position as Bulgaria: signed, but not ratified. So it has no force within the USA.

Re:Get a clue. (1)

pavon (30274) | more than 2 years ago | (#39065341)

Where did I say they did? No one has ratified it yet, but all signatory countries I listed are moving towards ratification with no signs of that changing.

Re:Get a clue. (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 2 years ago | (#39069177)

Really? The U.S. is "moving toward ratification"??? If so, this is the first I've heard about it, and I have been trying to keep track.

The Constitution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39065299)

FFS Slashdot, [i][b]THE SENATE DID NOT RATIFY THE TREATY. ITS NOT IN FORCE[/b][/i] Some schmuck from the U.S.of A. DID *sign* it, but it has not been ratified, and so have so effective force of law.

FFS read the constitution.

Re:Need non-EU contries to reject it to die. (1)

GLMDesigns (2044134) | more than 2 years ago | (#39067299)

ACTA cannot work without the world community (read national police forces and courts) enforcing it. If huge sections of the world - especially the technologically advanced part - are not signatories, and are not participating then ACTA cannot work. At best it would be a bad joke.

Re:Another one bites the dust... (1)

Em Adespoton (792954) | more than 2 years ago | (#39067997)

In other news, scientists cloned their first Dodo bird today from preserved Dodo DNA....

Things like ACTA never really go away, they just declare bankruptcy and open up a new shell corporation... er...

Thank you, Europe (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39062863)

We in Canada thank you for being smarter than us. Our prime minister still has his nose up American corporate ass.

Re:Thank you, Europe (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39062983)

Well, is Canada protesting like places across Europe?

Re:Thank you, Europe (4, Interesting)

Ironhandx (1762146) | more than 2 years ago | (#39063029)

Yes. We are.

The Harper Government is putting heavy pressure on the CBC not to televise it. The other news interests are being pushed down by their corporate overlords.

People in Ontario: This is what you have voted into our Canadian government. Even Ignatieff was better than this.

Re:Thank you, Europe (1)

Digital Vomit (891734) | more than 2 years ago | (#39064921)

The Harper Government is putting heavy pressure on the CBC not to televise it

Citation?

Re:Thank you, Europe (3, Interesting)

Ironhandx (1762146) | more than 2 years ago | (#39065845)

Will take me a little while to find it again but Harper had funding cuts for the CBC put into his budget back when they were reporting on some scientists that harper was gagging.

CBC folded, they removed the story from their web site, the only place you can find it now is on independent sites.

http://asweweresaying.blogspot.com/2010/10/scientists-defy-harper-gag-rules.html [blogspot.com]

The above is the story.

The CBC has been saying "How high" every time harper says "jump" ever since.

Re:Thank you, Europe (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39063285)

Well, is Canada protesting like places across Europe?

Not that I'm aware of. There isn't really anything that people in Canada can do. Our weird political system has given someone with less than 50% of the popular support a *majority government*. That means we have a fascist party in government with no effective means to control them.

Hopefully they will be gone after the next election. The people up here aren't too bright and might re-elect them.

Re:Thank you, Europe (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39063485)

There isn't really anything that people in Canada can do. Our weird educational system has given someone with less than 50% of the functioning brain a *outlet for stupid ideas*. That means we have a really fucking shitty post about how Canada has a fascist government with no effective means of telling him to shut the fuck up.

Hopefully you will die. Faggot.

Re:Thank you, Europe (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39064135)

Your use of profanity to bolster your argument betrays your intelligence level. Better luck next time.

Re:Thank you, Europe (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39067741)

a bloo bloo, internet person called me a bad word so he is a stupid doody-head!

There isn't a bullet where your brain is supposed to be, so I guess the Canadian government isn't fascist enough yet. There's always hope though.

Re:Thank you, Europe (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 2 years ago | (#39063557)

Not that I'm aware of. There isn't really anything that people in Canada can do. Our weird political system has given someone with less than 50% of the popular support a *majority government*.

What's weird about that? The last Labour government in the UK gained a majority with around 22% of the votes. Majority government on minority votes seems to be the norm in most Western nations.

Hopefully they will be gone after the next election. The people up here aren't too bright and might re-elect them.

The left clearly aren't too bright because they took a minority government and turned it into a majority government by forcing an election no-one wanted. If they hadn't forced an election Canada would still have a safe minority government who couldn't screw anything up too badly.

Re:Thank you, Europe (1)

MysteriousPreacher (702266) | more than 2 years ago | (#39063823)

It's the "first past the post" system. It's a great way of raising the barrier for entry to keep minority interests out of the picture.

Re:Thank you, Europe (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39068251)

It's the "first past the post" system. It's a great way of raising the barrier for entry to keep minority interests out of the picture.

The first past the post system is a great way to keep minor parties out of the picture, but it is not responsible for the possibility of a party winning the majority of seats without majority popular support. That kind is situation occurs in Australia, which has preferential voting. It is instead a product of representative (ie. seat by seat elections) rather than popular (seats given to parties on % vote basis) electoral systems.

Re:Thank you, Europe (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39064105)

What's weird about that? The last Labour government in the UK gained a majority with around 22% of the votes. Majority government on minority votes seems to be the norm in most Western nations.

It's not weird : It's because people ( at least in my country ) have a lot of different opinions, so they will elect different people.
In the US you have democrat and republican.

In Europe you generally have : socialists, liberalists , greens, conservative/right , maybe some center parties , which represent different groups in society.
With 4 - 5 parties , each having their strong voting base, it's very difficult for a party to gain more than 50 % .

In my country, we have about 12 mainstream parties. Can you guess my country ?

Re:Thank you, Europe (3, Insightful)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 2 years ago | (#39066907)

What's weird is when the party has less than 50% of votes, but more than 50% of seats.

Re:Thank you, Europe (2)

Formalin (1945560) | more than 2 years ago | (#39067549)

First past the post destroys that though. When you have to appeal to the largest base, you end up with two parties, generally. It's easier to corrupt two parties, also.

GP is saying with a small percentage of the votes, the party obtains >50% of the seats, and thus absolute power (not that they are the biggest party with small percentage, that's not the problem). Not very democratic, is it.

A group of parties with sub 50% of the vote working together in coalition is a good thing.
One party with sub 50% of the vote having absolute majority, being able to pass laws without listening to the others is very problematic. This is what first past the post creates.

So in PR - we have say.. 6 parties. 21%, 20%, 20%, 10%, 15%, 14%.
To pass something, they need support of at least three parties in this situation, any combination that will be >50%. Say 21 + 15 + 10 + 14 support it, so the law is supported by 60% of the electors, or at the minimum, 50%.

in FPTP, with the same results - the 21% party can get much more of the seats, and have absolute power. (if the results were like this in every riding, they would get 100% of the seats). Evil. 21% can then dictate over the others until the next election.

There are even stranger incidents with first past the post, where if the party that wins less seats wins them by a larger percentage - they can have more of the popular vote, and end up having the minority of seats.

Re:Thank you, Europe (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39067135)

What's weird about that? The last Labour government in the UK gained a majority with around 22% of the votes. Majority government on minority votes seems to be the norm in most Western nations.

Actually it's not the norm in most Western nations. Most countries in Europe have proportional systems. Australia and New Zealand have proportional systems. In fact I think UK, Canada and USA are the only western nations with plurality voting systems. It is weird to most of the western world.

Re:Thank you, Europe (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39064119)

I'm so sick of that argument.

The conservatives only got 40% of the popular vote, so 60% of Canadians didn't want them to be in power....

Ok, but look at the alternatives...

30% voted for the NDP, that means 70% of Canadians didn't want them to be in power...
19% voted for the Liberals, that means 81% of Canadians didn't want them to be in power...
6% voted for the Bloc, that means 94% of Canadians didn't want them to be in power...
4% voted for the Greens, that means 96% of Canadians didn't want them to be in power...

Yes, I can understand that the "first past the post" riding system might cause a party that has less then 40% of the popular vote can still grab 54% of the seats, but look at the system in the US, it causes the same issues. 2000 election had Al Gore with 48.4% of the popular vote who lost to George Bush with 47.9%.

So the party that had the largest percentage of people voting for them ended up forming the government and you are calling this Fascist? I think that might better suit a system where you write off the fact that the majority voted for one party and say they shouldn't be in power and that a less popular party should be in charge.

Re:Thank you, Europe (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39064591)

Nobody is suggesting that the Conservative government should not be in power based on the last election. I believe people have a problem with the amount of power bestowed upon the government for winning 39% of the popular vote. I think the logical conclusion from your data is that a Conservative minority government would best reflect the wishes of the people under the current framework.

The fact that that didn't happen suggests there might be something wrong with the current system.

Re:Thank you, Europe (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39065041)

what the people are protesting is the willingness of the government to act AGAINST the will, intent, wishes, needs, best interests, RIGHTS, and FREEDOMS of the CITIZENs. regardless of the majority or minority status, or how much of a mandate they have(n't). The Canadian government does not in any way shape or formmake any attempt to reflect on and act on the wishes or best interests of the CITIZENs. if Canada were to be invaded it would be by the americans, no one else wishes us ill will. And thank you europe for shining a little light on the darkness which is corporate america, run amok.

Re:Thank you, Europe (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39065003)

I think the OP was calling the current government fascist, not the political system.

Fascism - noun
A political regime, having totalitarian aspirations, ideologically based on a relationship between business and the centralized government, business-and-government control of the market place, repression of criticism or opposition, a leader cult and exalting the state and/or religion above individual rights.

That pretty well sums up the conservative government in Canada.

As for your argument about percentages winning and losing...In my mind if a party wins X % percent of the vote, they should get X % of the seats (or how ever power is distributed). Anything else is bullshit.

Re:Thank you, Europe (1)

Formalin (1945560) | more than 2 years ago | (#39067647)

Bloody rights it is fascist. The group with 39% can dictate something that all the other groups may dislike. In a proper system the remaining 61% can work together on things that represent their common goals.

That way the laws have support of 61% of voters, as opposed to 39%. Even if it is only supported by the 30 and 19 and 4, that's 53%, a better representation of what the voters want. If it's less than 50, you're SOL. that awful bill the people don't want isn't going to pass.

In a proper system, to get an absolute majority, you need a majority of the votes. Imagine that. So simple, and fair. FPTP is a cancerous scourge.

I'd have less of a problem with harper running the show like a dictator if the people had actually handed him a dictator's 50%+1. I'd just be ashamed of my countrymen, is all.

Re:Thank you, Europe (1)

alexo (9335) | more than 2 years ago | (#39067747)

I'm so sick of that argument.

The conservatives only got 40% of the popular vote, so 60% of Canadians didn't want them to be in power....

Ok, but look at the alternatives...

31% voted for the NDP, that means 70% of Canadians didn't want them to be in power...
19% voted for the Liberals, that means 81% of Canadians didn't want them to be in power...
6% voted for the Bloc, that means 94% of Canadians didn't want them to be in power...
4% voted for the Greens, that means 96% of Canadians didn't want them to be in power...

In a sane(r) system:
the Conservatives would get ~40% of the seats,
the NDP would get ~31% of the seats,
the Liberals would get ~19% of the seats,
the Bloc would get ~6% of the seats,
and the Greens would get ~4% of the seats.

Then, the governing party would have to hold talks with the other parties and make compromises that would be acceptable to most of the populace.

Re:Thank you, Europe (1)

Em Adespoton (792954) | more than 2 years ago | (#39068205)

The funny thing is, with the exception of the Greens, your statements are likely very accurate:

I'd strip about 20% off the stats for people who were actually voting *for* the MP they wanted. Most people have been negative voting for years.

40% of Canadians didn't want the Conservatives to be in power....
50% of Canadians didn't want the NDP to be in power...
61% of Canadians didn't want the Liberals to be in power...
74% of Canadians didn't want the Bloc to be in power...
96% of Canadians didn't expect a vote for the Greens to ever get them into power...

Since the only number there below 50% is the Conservative number, they ended up with a Majority government. If that number had been 50% or higher, it would have been a minority government.

Re:Thank you, Europe (1)

Mashiki (184564) | more than 2 years ago | (#39065011)

Why do we have so many ignorant canadians who don't even understand our electorate system? Or even the reason why the conservatives got elected. I mean, it couldn't have anything to do with the fact that the liberals tried to overthrow the government three times. Failed, and the people said: "Enough with the fucking elections, we want some stability for a few years."

Re:Thank you, Europe (1)

Formalin (1945560) | more than 2 years ago | (#39067713)

Urghhh, not another one of these FUDsters trying to say that forming a coalition is an attempt at a treasonous overthrow. Maybe you don't understand how the system works.

If harper would ever compromise (you know, something that you have to do in a minority position) there wouldn't have been so many elections.

Re:Thank you, Europe (1)

alexo (9335) | more than 2 years ago | (#39067659)

There isn't really anything that people in Canada can do. Our weird political system has given someone with less than 50% of the popular support a *majority government*. That means we have a fascist party in government with no effective means to control them.

It is way more ridiculous. Let me crunch the numbers for you:

The popular support for the Conservatives was 39.62% with a 61.4% voter turnout.
Which means that LESS THAN 25% OF ELIGIBLE CANADIANS VOTED FOR THEM. That's right, less than a quarter , not counting

However, if we consider all Canadians, not just the electors on the list, out of 31,612,897 [elections.ca] people, 5,832,401 voted Conservative. That's right boys and girls, the whole of 18.45% .

And this gave us a majority government that, contrary to the US, has no checks nor balances.

Fun, eh?

Re:Thank you, Europe (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39063959)

Not just corporate asses, government as well. After all, if canada was to be invaded, America would have to come to your rescue...

Re:Thank you, Europe (1)

Master Moose (1243274) | more than 2 years ago | (#39064477)

As do us here in New Zealand

Human Rights (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39062907)

The FFII reports [ffii.org] they convinced the Parliament of The Netherlands to adopt an anti-ACTA motion:

[Second Chamber] asks the Government not to sign the ACTA treaty as long as it is not conclusively established that the treaty does not conflict with fundamental rights,

As Amnesty, OSCE, Human Rights Commissioner Reding and others have their doubts it looks like a poison pill.

Re:Human Rights (1)

Seeteufel (1736784) | more than 2 years ago | (#39062965)

Why do other governments support ACTA?

Re:Human Rights (2)

zogre (1080899) | more than 2 years ago | (#39063081)

I figured it was because the USA and our corporate media interests made them an offer they couldn't refuse...

Answer: (2, Insightful)

sakdoctor (1087155) | more than 2 years ago | (#39063115)

Corruption

Re:Human Rights (2)

sdguero (1112795) | more than 2 years ago | (#39063203)

They are more easily bought by corporate interests and their voters are less informed.

Wrong target (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39062935)

Maybe content companies should start lobbying citizens and not their governments. Yes, that was lobbying, not mobbing.

Re:Wrong target (5, Insightful)

MysteriousPreacher (702266) | more than 2 years ago | (#39063907)

They already tried that by telling me that downloading a couple of tracks from the Internet was equivalent to nicking a car. They then showed that piracy is masterminded by some half-naked medieval torturer with glowing red eyes and a red hot branding iron. Seems so fucking cool to me that I of course had to give it a try.

It was disappointing, but I at least came away with some free music.

TFA missing (5, Informative)

CurryCamel (2265886) | more than 2 years ago | (#39062959)

TFA is just a LMGTFY??
This must be a new low.

Re:TFA missing (2)

SailorSpork (1080153) | more than 2 years ago | (#39063845)

Didn't you hear? It's BYOTFA now.

Amazing wake-up call... (1)

3seas (184403) | more than 2 years ago | (#39063009)

....to not ACTA stupid.

Re:Amazing wake-up call... (1)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 2 years ago | (#39063061)

Watsamatta for you?

Thisa the government wea talking about!

Other member states: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39063211)

Other member states that have said that they will not ratify the treaty for now include Slovakia, Latvia, Czech republic and Romania.

But note that no one has said "no", they have just said "not yet".

Re:Other member states: (1)

M. Baranczak (726671) | more than 2 years ago | (#39063483)

In this case, I think "not yet" is actually a euphemism for "no". Remember: they just got done negotiating and signing this pile of shit. Now they're trying to back out of it while still saving face.

A word of caution (5, Interesting)

Maimun (631984) | more than 2 years ago | (#39063291)

I am Bulgarian living in Bulgaria right now. I am as happy as any of you about the ditching of ACTA by our government. But! They change their minds twice a day. The position of the other European governments against ACTA, I think, is based (to a certain extent at least) on principles and integrity. Our government is silly, uninformed, clueless and it may easily jump back on the ACTA bandwagon if put under pressure. They were clearly ready to force the ratification of ACTA on the Parliament. What changed their minds was the protest wave -- the government are populist and easily bend before protests. However, they bend easily before anything. So, let's wait and see...

Re:A word of caution (4, Interesting)

D,Petkow (793457) | more than 2 years ago | (#39063403)

I am Bulgarian living in Bulgaria right now. I am as happy as any of you about the ditching of ACTA by our government. But! They change their minds twice a day. The position of the other European governments against ACTA, I think, is based (to a certain extent at least) on principles and integrity. Our government is silly, uninformed, clueless and it may easily jump back on the ACTA bandwagon if put under pressure. They were clearly ready to force the ratification of ACTA on the Parliament. What changed their minds was the protest wave -- the government are populist and easily bend before protests. However, they bend easily before anything. So, let's wait and see...

the funniest thing is that the minister who took responsibility for signing the ACTA treaty early said on national television that he is under a lot of pressure to sign lots of paperwork everyday (around 100+ papers on a weekly basis) and he said quote "i'm sorry for not reading this document throughly, before accepting to sign it - my team of experts said it was nothing to qworry about it" They are truly clueless and they admit it, lulz.

Re:A word of caution (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39063555)

Far better to be clueless and admit it than to be simply clueless, which appears to be the position of most of our politicians.

Re:A word of caution (1)

Flipstylee (1932884) | more than 2 years ago | (#39063611)

the funniest thing is that the minister who took responsibility for signing the ACTA treaty early said on national television that he is under a lot of pressure to sign lots of paperwork everyday (around 100+ papers on a weekly basis) and he said quote "i'm sorry for not reading this document throughly, before accepting to sign it - my team of experts said it was nothing to worry about it" They are truly clueless and they admit it, lulz.

All the better than, less room for evil to hide when you know ignorance is taking most of the space, they could've done as my government does: 'well... we have to decline comment, but i assure you there is nothing to worry about (smiley face).' Time to get educated!

Re:A word of caution (2)

deblau (68023) | more than 2 years ago | (#39065467)

If only our politicians in the US were as honest.

Re:A word of caution (1)

pesho (843750) | more than 2 years ago | (#39067921)

You don't appreciate the cultural undertones of what is being said. I assume you will also like the following quote from the same government official in regard to ACTA: "We should never put copy rights ahead of human rights".

Now let me translate these statements for you: "Gee, we did not realize that we can ask for bigger bribes. Now go back and stuff a little more cash into that envelope."

What happened is that being completely clueless about the dynamics of the issue, the government assumed this something that nobody cares about and going along with the flow will procure them some minor favors with the EU bureaucracies and the Bulgarian equivalents of RIAA. Because of the protests, they realized that this is actually a controversial issue, which provides them with a strong bargaining position as far as 'lobbyist' money are concerned.

Re:A word of caution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39066779)

Actually, he said that he underestimated the IP provisions in the treaty, and the reports he got detailing the agreement focused on the seizure of counterfeit goods, but don't let facts get in the way of your government bashing.

Even as governments change, the policy on filesharing specifically is well known - non-commercial exchange of copyrighted works is not frowned upon, and they've been sticking to this line for quite some time. Think back to the fright over EU data retention policies.

As with the recent decision to block Chevron from using hydrofracking for prospecting, I too expect that some pressure will be exerted on the government to reconsider, but I also believe that they'll try to buy some goodwill by sticking to these decisions even in the face of potential losses.

Also worth noting is a recent comment from the minister of foreign affairs, who quipped that "if you can steal stuff online, you can sell stuff online", basically saying that content owners should provide legal means for obtaining the content before trying to block people from sharing on their own terms. I think this pretty much sums up the attitude towards filesharing over here.

Re:A word of caution (1)

gstoddart (321705) | more than 2 years ago | (#39063897)

Our government is silly, uninformed, clueless

Show of hands ... all whose government doesn't fall into this category? Anybody?

It seems like when most governments try to pass laws on technology, they demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of what it is they're passing laws about and how it works. That never seems to stop them, though.

Re:A word of caution (2)

Stevecrox (962208) | more than 2 years ago | (#39065153)

It's the major flaw with democracy, most western societies have career politicians who have never done anything other than be a politician. As a result they have little experiences or knowledge outside of their bubble meaning they don't know when a lobbyist is lying or when they speak the truth.

To make matters worse modern media has descended in to sensationalism which only allows for sound bites, you have various papers like The Sun pushing for action when something outrageous happens. While this is important, an event may have occurred where no one was to blame or existing infrastructure is enough. But politicians have to be seen to do something or they are crucified often the measures they take only make things worse (see airport security).

It isn't just the tech world that has this problems, the recent Conservative parties big NHS reform has been placed on the scrap heap because they aimed far to much at ideology and didn't engage the people who would implement it. You can find similar bills in just about every sector of society.

I'd argue the only way to fix this problem is to ban politicians from standing for office for more than 2 terms and encouraging secondary houses like the house of lords. An unelected body made up of experts in their fields is what is needed to put the brakes on the more insane idea's that democracy produces.

Two elected bodies just makes the problem worse, sadly no politician is going to going to along those terms as they are part of the problem.

Re:A word of caution (2)

iive (721743) | more than 2 years ago | (#39065263)

The problem is that the government is not reversing any of its past actions.
It is not removing its signature under ACTA, its parliamentary group would not even let a proposal for official refusal of ratification to be presented to the parliament.
For all that matters, Bulgaria can just ratify ACTA tomorrow.

The official stance is to delay until the EU parliament makes a decision and then to repeat whatever that decision is. It seems that the ACTA proponents would try to delay the vote in the EU parliament. They hope that the matter would fade away from public conscious and at some point they would do a sudden silent vote on it, like the first one.
Whenever that happens, Bulgaria can ratify ACTA on the very next day.

The fight for democracy (2)

biodata (1981610) | more than 2 years ago | (#39063583)

Thanks to the young people of Europe for reminding us that we have to fight for democracy over and over again. The thieves will always try to take it back unless we stand up to them, and the politicians will often be looking the other way.

Re:The fight for democracy (3, Insightful)

k6mfw (1182893) | more than 2 years ago | (#39064671)

it seems it is young people of Europe that take it to the streets, not much of that in USA protesting against such laws. however, there are other protests but media coverage is sparse. It should be noted many from former Eastern Bloc countries take issue with laws like ACTA because they know what it is like to live in a country with censorship and compared to without.

Internet vs Establishment. We are winning (4, Insightful)

lew2048 (2571805) | more than 2 years ago | (#39063951)

It seems governments can't ignore us when we coordinate via the internet and represent the interests of internet users. Big changes are happening despite all of the govs trying to shut down the internet. We are living through serious history, interesting times.

ACTA source EU (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39063999)

Text of the treaty:
http://register.consilium.europa.eu/pdf/en/11/st12/st12196.en11.pdf

Main aim of this legislation seems to be exporting the US legal approach to the rest of the world. Tactics like secret negotiations, participants having to sign non-disclosure agreement intended to implement this more or less under the radar of public scrutiny.

Please take into account that the US patent system is considered "broken" through awarding trivial patents, patents on software, genetic patents, patent trolls, corporate patent wars.

Like the mission to Iraq the US has again created a coalition of the willing and is using that to get more aboard. US diplomacy is exerting pressure to join. If the EU would have joined it would have very difficult for third world countries to evade joining. That would definitely have impacted the price and availability of generic pharmaceuticals.

That legal approach includes for instance the damages calculation which led to obscene claims in the US and also would enable a business model for law firms to extort consumers sharing a few files.

Please note that this treaty aims to cover all Intellectual Property rights. The implications for the Internet (ISPs having to cooperate) draws the most attention up to now.

More specifically it will enable Monsanto to enforce their genetic seed patents outside the US. So do expect them to sue farmers saving part of their harvest for seeding next year. Given the wide contamination by pollen seed stocks are inevitably contaminated by GM material.

The US political system is thoroughly corrupted. Corporate interest like MPAA's Dodd (an ex-senator mind you) is openly threatening to retract campaign contributions. The failure of the US political system in their fiduciary duty to protect citizens/voters/consumers against exploitation by the economic system is of truly epic proportions.

Corporate interest simply don't have the same level of influence in Europe.

However now the very secretive approach has been exposed, the very text will be studied much more thoroughly. For now ACTA seems dead in the water indeed.

Nice to see international grass roots cooperation to stop this (now more that 2.3 million signatures:
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/eu_save_the_internet/?tta

Re:ACTA source EU (1)

Spottywot (1910658) | more than 2 years ago | (#39065819)

Nice post, don't really see why you've posted AC, but as someone who lives in the UK we do have an extremely high level of corporate influence in government, especially from the banks. Corupt self-interested ministers, cash for questions, the 'rock and a hard place' two party system, the list could go on and on but suffice to say we're not so far behind the US( in blatant corruption) as you might like to imagine. As far as I know there has been no public debate on ACTA here, and that does not bode well for decisions this side of the pond.

Re:ACTA source EU (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39067107)

Implications of ISP and websites having to cooperate in the meaning of filtering / blocking seems not the case anymore due to the 2 decisions mentioned in this article:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/16/us-court-socialmedia-netlog-idUSTRE81F0WI20120216

for the ones not familiar with what ECJ does and what it's decisions imply:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Court_of_Justice

so, whoever fears that ACTA could bring DPI in EU can rest...

No surprise (4, Insightful)

StikyPad (445176) | more than 2 years ago | (#39064485)

Yeah, I don't think opposition from former Eastern Bloc countries like Bulgaria and Poland surprises anyone really, nor do I expect their dissent to convince any of the proponents to back down, particularly the US. On the contrary, I expect they'll use that to fuel their argument about the necessity of ACTA.

Good to see Germany and the Netherlands opposing it though. The economic powerhouse of Germany cannot be ignored, and their opposition makes it politically easier for other countries to voice their dissent as well.

Re:No surprise (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39067735)

that's fascinating, but anyway, yeah I wanted my sandwich toasted.

It will be pushed through (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 2 years ago | (#39064663)

Until copyrights patents are universally understood to be BAD for the economy and society in general, this will keep coming up over and over.

There is no half way.

There is no half way between just a little bit of copyright and ACTA and SOPA and DMCA - ACTA and SOPA and DMCA will win.

There is no half way between just a little bit of socialism and totalitarianism - totalitarianism will win.

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