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Canadians #TellVicEverything In Response To Bill C-30

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the like-a-sausage-but-with-cracks-on-the-surface dept.

Canada 84

First time accepted submitter beerdragoon writes "In order to protest the government's new Internet snooping legislation, some Canadians have started a somewhat unorthodox protest. Vic Toews, the minister responsible for tabling the legislation, has had his twitter account bombarded with tweets regarding the boring, banal aspects of regular Canadians' lives. The idea is that since Toews wants to know everything about your personal life, we should oblige him and #TellVicEverything."

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84 comments

A rather interesting approach (2)

allaunjsilverfox2 (882195) | more than 2 years ago | (#39081099)

It might work too, If it weren't so easy to separate signal from noise. People like to pretend that they are random, Unpredictable. When in actuality it's rather easy to assign points to activities. A perfect example is the recent story of target sending advertisements for baby related things. Enough people had contributed enough data to anticipate a teenagers pregnancy needs before her father even knew.

Re:A rather interesting approach (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39081657)

In America, this would be considered bullying, harassment, and *possibly* terrorism.

Re:A rather interesting approach (5, Interesting)

DeeEff (2370332) | about 2 years ago | (#39081869)

In Canada this is how we remind parliament who's in charge.

Re:A rather interesting approach (2)

mcneely.mike (927221) | about 2 years ago | (#39081923)

This is a good point: remember, it was a famous American President who said,

"A little rebellion now and then is a good thing. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government. God forbid that we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion." --Thomas Jefferson.

I'm trying to get my families and friends involved with the 'C-20 rebellion': If i tell 2 friends, and they tell 2 friends....

Re:A rather interesting approach (1)

theshowmecanuck (703852) | about 2 years ago | (#39085731)

In Canada this is how we remind parliament who's in charge.

FTFY: In Canada this is how we think we remind parliament who's in charge.

In Canada's system of government, and with the laws and rules that govern parliament, when we elect a majority government the Prime Minister is effectively made a limited term oligarch/dictator. Whatever he says goes, no matter what all the people nipping at his heels say or want.. Our MPs (representatives) effectively do not have free choice of how they vote. They have to vote the way the party leaders want them to no matter what (the Prime Minister is the leader of the political party that elects the most parliamentarians to the 'house'). If they don't vote the way the leaders want, the leader kicks them out of caucus and they will not be allowed to represent that party in the next election. If you are an independent you have no real power or effect (or more precisely, less power or effect than a 'back bencher'). Independents are allowed almost no speaking time during question period, and members of parties generally/effectively don't care about what they say or do (because their party leader doesn't care).

Canada's system is more polarized than in America. In America there are a lot of votes that take place where a democrat will vote for a republican bill and a republican will vote for a democrat sponsored bill (although granted the last is not happening as much because of the radicalization of the republican party). In any case Americans shouldn't fret too much. At least the parties there actually work together on bills collaboratively. If that happens in Canada the other parties scream 'COALITION!!!' like it is a bad thing for parties to work together to form a piece of legislation that benefits the country.

Re:A rather interesting approach (1)

MikeBabcock (65886) | more than 2 years ago | (#39089111)

I'm going to ignore most of your comment because you skipped the obvious bit ... the Senate.

Re:A rather interesting approach (1)

theshowmecanuck (703852) | more than 2 years ago | (#39090417)

An unelected bunch of twats who are appointed, to whom most today owe their allegiance to the PM. And the Senate rarely overrules the Commons anyway. It's happened maybe 10 times over the last 30 years. Being unelected they don't make it practice to oppose, just give sober second thought. If they voted to much they would certainly end up eventually voting against what the electorate wants. Then the public would be urging the Senate be abolished. There are a lot more people than you think who to get rid of it. I would rather they just be elected and have their election offset from federal elections. Sine they are supposed to be regionally representative, provincial elections would be a good time.

Re:A rather interesting approach (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39091279)

You're right in terms of the usual relationship between MPs and the PM. But ultimately, the Prime Minister answers to parliament, and so he can only turf so many caucus members before his job is threatened.

As for votes, most are actually not whipped, so members do not always break along party lines. An example was this week's vote killing the long gun registry, which split the NDP. Federal politics in Canada is far, far less polarized than in the current US. This is chiefly a function of US experiencing another period of high polarization, which has happened a few times in its history.

Re:A rather interesting approach (4, Funny)

TheStonepedo (885845) | about 2 years ago | (#39081945)

Those Canadians (and for that matter Mexicans and Bolivians) can be so un-American at times.

Email as well (4, Interesting)

arthurpaliden (939626) | about 2 years ago | (#39083275)

In addition people were emailing him about what they were doing, cc'ing him on all their emails and emailing him their web browsing histories. In fact so much data was coming into the parliaments servers they were taken or knocked off line.

Nice approach, but.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39081103)

isn't that all Twitter does anyway? .. also don't forget to tweet Vic about how you are tweting tweets to Vic through Twitter.

It gets better ... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39081137)

The snippet is interesting but not the big news.

He let the cat out of the bag as he is asking the speaker to investigate this protest. (which means RCMP or CSIS presumably) Does any sane populace want to put more surveillance power in the hands of a person that would abuse his office to simply satisfy his curiosity as to who is tweeting him?

Re:It gets better ... (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39081179)

He isn't asking the speaker to investigate the protest. He is asking for an investigation into one particular account, Vikileaks30 or something, which is releasing *his* personal information (details of his divorce, etc) on twitter. Apparently the tweets on the account were made from an IP address from the House of Commons.

Re:It gets better ... (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39081261)

Which is a demonstration that there's actually no need for this bill. They isolated an IP, and if there's enough to show a crime is connected a judge would issue an order for an ISP to hand over relevant records.

Re:It gets better ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39083581)

Every heard of proxy servers.

Re:It gets better ... (5, Insightful)

green1 (322787) | more than 2 years ago | (#39081273)

Heaven forbid a politician be subject to the same loss of privacy they wish on the rest of us!

Re:It gets better ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39086569)

Not that he lost any private information about his particular private life being tweeted - all the information was ALREADY known. This was just throwing it back out into the public eye again.

Re:It gets better ... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39081361)

Publicly accessible court documents being copied should not warrant a parliamentary inquiry.

Re:It gets better ... (5, Insightful)

euxneks (516538) | about 2 years ago | (#39081627)

It's not private information. Divorce records are public. All the things I have read on that twitter account are PUBLIC record.

Who cares if the IP is from the house of commons? It's just highlighting his hypocrisy.

Re:It gets better ... (5, Informative)

Suddenly_Dead (656421) | about 2 years ago | (#39082887)

Notice that, if this account was posting on a Canadian website post-C-30, the RCMP or CSIS would be able to compel the site to reveal the poster's private IP/email address, and the ISP then compelled to provide an address and name.

There's a reason why this bill should not pass. A chilling effect on dissenting speech is not a good thing.

(Yes, the Twitter account attacking Toews and his divorced wife is tacky, but Toews himself has been extremely tacky and hypocritical in general, and is outright threatening Canadian's privacy and freedom right now. Plus, all of this stuff is in the public record, so I fail to see any legal issues here.

As it is right now, all we know is that a newspaper says they've tracked it to the House of Commons, and they did that on their own using the ol' "send them a link to your server, then watch the logs for an access" trick. If it is a criminal problem, a judge can issue a subpoena, as far as I can tell.)

Vengence (1)

DarthVain (724186) | more than 2 years ago | (#39111263)

He is trying to show that a government employee used government resources for non-government purposes contrary to IT policy, likely in an effort to get them fired.

Re:It gets better ... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39081731)

Doesn't anyone notice the degree of technological ignorance this kind of law reveals? Not only do they not understand that any serious criminal (terrorist, predator or whatever) will have the sense to spoof, anonymize, etc. so as not to be easily traced through his real-name ISP account; they don't get it that ANYONE can get access to public documents, legally, and face no penalties for using that information. Mr. Toews is upset that messy details about him were quoted from public sources. What he's accusing the Canadian public of being child-molestors for is the desire not to have their *private* correspondence and conversations used to criminalize them whether or not they intend to commit any crime. This government has already designated environmentalists, First Nations and animal-lovers as **threats to Canadian security** deserving of surveillance by the RCMP and CSIS, as well as slandering them in public. Legally, nobody slandered Toews: they just reported his private life has been unadmirable, a matter of public record. Like quite a few Canadians, I signed up for Twitter specifically to participate in the #tellVicEverything campaign. But just to be fair, I did send him a couple of links to teach him why invading the privacy of all Canadians is not a good way to stop cybercrime.

Re:It gets better ... (1)

Kleen13 (1006327) | about 2 years ago | (#39081875)

I did send him a couple of links to teach him why invading the privacy of all Canadians is not a good way to stop cybercrime.

I think that's the point there. I don't think they had any idea whatsoever that the Canadian populace may have gotten good at this "internet thing" and might just have a thing or two to say about it. Never thought I'd say that I'm with the pedophiles.....

Re:It gets better ... (4, Insightful)

AdamWill (604569) | about 2 years ago | (#39082321)

well, you can look at it that way. the other way you can look at it is this:

the police can already access all the records in question if they have just cause, by getting a court order. obviously, getting a court order isn't a terribly onerous thing in the context of a really serious crime - terrorism, child abuse, whatever. offences of that nature are rare enough and serious enough that there's no problem getting a court order where one is warranted.

it follows that, whatever the justification publicly offered, it doesn't make any sense that a law which removes the requirement to obtain a court order is truly targeted at very serious crimes. no, it only makes sense in the context of much less serious offences. say you're looking at, oh, to take a COMPLETELY random example, file sharing. you've got hundreds of thousands of potential offences, and probably little in the way of decent investigative evidence in any of them.

now THAT'S a case where it 'makes sense' to remove the requirement for a court order, because it really is going to cost of a lot of resources to go out and get a couple hundred thousand court orders, especially if your evidence is pretty weak.

So, yeah, we can ignore the rhetoric, and instead ask the question 'in what circumstances does it really benefit the police not to have to go and get a court order to look at these records?' And the answer to that question is very different to the rhetoric you hear from the Cons surrounding the bill.

Re:It gets better ... (2)

Phrogman (80473) | about 2 years ago | (#39085277)

Oh I have zero doubt this is about filesharing and getting the Canadian Government to foot the bill on behalf the MAFIAA. The entertainment industry has put a lot of effort (and money) into getting government support to change our laws concerning file sharing to be more draconian. I am sure the bribe money has been quite effective, although admittedly this government seems willing to do whatever business - or the US administration - tells it to do.
Nonetheless, the Canadian public seems fairly opposed to this legislation (C-30 and others). However the Conservatives have a majority and I am sure they will force it all through no matter what objections are raised.

Re:It gets better ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39083299)

Gawd, I hope it's that parliamentary assistant he knocked up.

No crime was committed. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39085621)

The information about his divorce was taken from the public records. Specifically, the affidavits that mentioned that he was, among other things, banging his sister-in-law's babysitter for 7 years, then banging his own babysitter for 3 before getting her pregnant and leaving his wife.

And let's not forget - this was the guy who was dubbed the "Minister of Family Values" because of his defense of conventional marriage and opposition to gays and lesbians. He really should have been called the "Minister of Family Affairs" because that's what he seems to do best - have affairs.

No crime was committed.

Re:It gets better ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39111237)

That is fantastic! Sure that is personal and private information but life's a bitch! That is the sort of information which could or can be leaked when our government decides it is a good idea to log Massive quantities of data on its citizens. The data which they store then becomes a target. What worries me the most is when this sort of bill is passed and a hacker breaks into their servers and lifts massive quantities of data on Canadian citizens. Will we the people be told or will it all be hushed up and deemed national security?!?!

Goals (4, Interesting)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 2 years ago | (#39081165)

I'm still quite surprised that nobody is connecting the online surveillance to the media companies. People still seem to believe that it's just a misguided child predator act.

Re:Goals (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39081205)

No one believes it's about the children. There is no mention of "the children" anywhere in the bill. Heck, it was called "Lawful Access" before being hastily renamed at the last minute.

That it's an attempt at the government to spy on us, or that there is some bigger agenda in the background, it doesn't really matter. The issue is about our privacy and that's why it's taking a lot of fire.

Re:Goals (1)

mcneely.mike (927221) | about 2 years ago | (#39081965)

I'm still waiting for the Canadian version of the twin towers attack, so that the Government of Harper/God Himself (sarcasm) can try to ram this down our scared Canadian butts like Bush did to Americans.

So if Margaret Atwood or Celine Dion are ever kidnapped and taken from us, don't say i didn't warn you (that we would be extremely happy!!!)

Re:Goals (1)

narkosys (110639) | about 2 years ago | (#39082669)

This is the same Vic Toews that said that if you are against this legislation you are for child porn.

Re:Goals (2, Interesting)

BergZ (1680594) | about 2 years ago | (#39086727)

The mockery and rejection that Vic is being subjected to (for his use of a vitriolic false dilemma) is what George Bush should have gotten for his: "Either you are with us [in support of warrantless wiretaps, invasion of privacy, and Iraq war 2], or you are with the terrorists."

Never have so few done so little to enrage so many (4, Insightful)

kawabago (551139) | more than 2 years ago | (#39081169)

Every day the Conservative government drifts a little farther from true Canadian values and into some kind of dream world where Leave It To Beaver is a reality series.

Re:Never have so few done so little to enrage so m (4, Interesting)

dittbub (2425592) | more than 2 years ago | (#39081461)

Gun Owners = Law abiding citizens. leave them alone! don't pre-judge them! innocent until proven guilty! Internet Users = Potential pedophile. More than potential. If you're reading this right now you probably are a pedophile. The RCMP have been contacted and will be there shortly to arrest you.

Re:Never have so few done so little to enrage so m (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39083699)

Gun Owners = Law abiding citizens. leave them alone! don't pre-judge them! innocent until proven guilty!

Internet Users = Potential pedophile. More than potential. If you're reading this right now you probably are a pedophile. The RCMP have been contacted and will be there shortly to arrest you.

And where do us gun owning pedophiles fit into your scheme?

Re:Never have so few done so little to enrage so m (-1, Troll)

Kleen13 (1006327) | about 2 years ago | (#39081885)

This isn't the CBC, keep your partisan crap where it belongs.

Re:Never have so few done so little to enrage so m (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39082541)

This isn't the CBC, keep your partisan crap where it belongs.

Aww, is da widdle conservative fascist angwy?

Go heil harper somewhere else.

Over 60% of Canadian voters voted against them. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39082915)

While they may have gotten a majority of seats in the House of Commons during the last election, the Conservatives didn't even get 40% of the popular vote.

Of the five major parties, the Conservatives are the only right-leaning party. The rest of the parties are centrist or decidedly left-leaning. This clearly indicates that the majority of voting Canadians do not share the Conservative's opinions and values.

In fact, the 39.6% of voting Canadians who voted Conservative in the last election are vastly outnumbered by the over 60% who voted against the Conservatives!

What the GP says is correct. The Conservatives do not reflect true Canadian values in any way. That's why they couldn't even get near a majority of the popular vote during the last election, and this is after they'd already been in power for several years.

Re:Over 60% of Canadian voters voted against them. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39083393)

Canada *needs* Open List Proportional Representation.
None of the usual suspects (Cpn/Lib/NDP/Bloc) will run with that, because, hey, "...we only need 39% of the vote to get a majority..." It's too good a deal for any party that just wants the driver's seat at any cost. But whichever party plays this tune during the next federal election is going have my attention.

Re:Over 60% of Canadian voters voted against them. (1)

alexo (9335) | more than 2 years ago | (#39115601)

Canada *needs* Open List Proportional Representation.

Canada (actually, Ontario) rejected [wikipedia.org] proportional representation.

Re:Never have so few done so little to enrage so m (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39082949)

As a recent immigrant to Canada, to think that CBC is somehow partisan on the same level as Fox News, MSNBC, or CNN (or even ABC/CBS/NBC) is hilarious.

This isn't to say that that CBC isn't biased. It's just nowhere in the same league. If you doubt this, I'm sure we could provide countless examples of how nobody beats American media when it comes to bullshit.

Re:Never have so few done so little to enrage so m (2, Informative)

Flammon (4726) | about 2 years ago | (#39084947)

Stephen Harper has always been very far from Canadian values. It's more apparent now because he has a majority government.

Vikileaks (5, Interesting)

Grieviant (1598761) | more than 2 years ago | (#39081253)

Vic has been part of some rather amusing drama as of late. Apparently, the "family values" man was divorced after knocking up his parliamentary assistant, as disclosed on a Twitter account with handle 'Vikileaks' who had access to the divorce proceedings. A local Ottawa newspaper then sent a twitter message with a honeypot link to Vikileaks in an attempt try to ascertain the IP address behind this account, and it led back to a Canadian parliament IP address. The Conservatives are now accusing the NDP of a smear campaign. I notice that Wikipedia has been sanitized since last night to remove any mention of Vikileaks.

http://www.metronews.ca/ottawa/canada/article/1101662--toews-and-twitter-tit-for-tat-turns-tawdry [metronews.ca]

http://blogs.canada.com/2012/02/15/vikileaks-attacks-vic-toews-on-twitter/ [canada.com]

vikileaks3 traced back to the NDP opposition party (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39081285)

The latest twist is that a trap was set to catch the IP address of the source Vikileaks30 of the original smear campaign on Minister Vic Toews. It was traced back to the House of Parliament IP address and one that has been used to edit material on wikipedia.org in reference to pro-NDP stances. References are here:

      Vikileaks Twitter account on Vic Toews linked to ‘pro-NDP’ address in House of Commons
      http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/02/16/vikileaks-house-of-commons/

      Tories accuse NDP of ‘dirty, sleazy’ Twitter attack on e-snooping champion
      http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/tories-accuse-ndp-of-dirty-sleazy-twitter-attack-on-e-snooping-champion/article2342111/

      Vikileaks30 linked to House of Commons IP address
      http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/Vikileaks30%2Blinked%2BHouse%2BCommons%2Baddress/6165497/story.html

It is just a matter of time to trace the actual MP's office responsible for the source.

Shows that the internet as it is, is never really anonymous.

Re:vikileaks3 traced back to the NDP opposition pa (1)

future assassin (639396) | about 2 years ago | (#39082335)

>Shows that the internet as it is, is never really anonymous.

Umm no it shows that social media "savvy" people are retards, Who the hell would follow a link sent to an email address when they are shit disturbing with that address.

Re:vikileaks3 traced back to the NDP opposition pa (1)

MeNeXT (200840) | about 2 years ago | (#39082699)

Unless someone forwarded that address to someone in the hose of commons with a message such as watch this.

Or maybe not...

Re:vikileaks3 traced back to the NDP opposition pa (1)

AdamWill (604569) | about 2 years ago | (#39082349)

'traced back to someone who appears to be sympathetic to the NDP' is more accurate. and, well, bleeding obvious. you don't need an IP address to figure that someone tweeting embarrassing but entirely factual things about a Conservative politician is quite likely to be an NDP (or, I suppose, Liberal) sympathizer.

I would be surprised if it is really this simple.. (5, Interesting)

mykepredko (40154) | about 2 years ago | (#39082429)

First off, the "Ottawa Citizen" claims that the IP address of the VicToews30 comes from a block used by Parliament. The newspaper alleges that it sent a web link to the twitter account and monitored the IP of who looked at it.

I wouldn't be surprised if somebody didn't do a Google search on "spoof ip address" and thought it would be funny/in their best interests to put in a Government of Canada IP address - again, another Google search on "parliament of canada ip address" yielded 192.197.82.0 – 192.197.82.255

So, it could be interesting to see our various political parties, the RCMP, CSIS, Ottawa police chase their tails looking for somebody that actually lives in Bumfuque Saskatchewan and is laughing his ass off.

Regardless, Mr. Toews is an absolute hypocrite (just in case you forgot, he's the guy who said that anybody who was against our version of SOPA is in league with pedaphiles), all while dealing with the fallout of a divorce because he got his babysitter knocked up (who may have been underage when the affair started). So, there's a good chance that we will see his resignation come Monday morning as part of the Harper Government's damage control.

myke

Re:vikileaks3 traced back to the NDP opposition pa (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39082679)

one that has been used to edit material on wikipedia.org in reference to pro-NDP stances.

Not just pro-NDP stances. Also pro-Conservative ones.

It's the public-facing address of a NATted internal network. It could be any one of hundreds of different people.

Of course, the Conservatives and their apparent lapdog, the Ottawa Citizen, don't care about that.

Re:vikileaks3 traced back to the NDP opposition pa (2)

Suddenly_Dead (656421) | about 2 years ago | (#39082963)

one that has been used to edit material on wikipedia.org in reference to pro-NDP stances.

Not just pro-NDP stances. Also pro-Conservative ones.

It's the public-facing address of a NATted internal network. It could be any one of hundreds of different people.

Of course, the Conservatives and their apparent lapdog, the Ottawa Citizen, don't care about that.

This right here. It's a House of Commons address, there's probably several people using it. The rest of it is baseless conjecture. One of the linked-to articles is from the National Post, which is about the closest thing we have to a FOX News or Wallstreet Journal here in Canada.

Re:vikileaks3 traced back to the NDP opposition pa (1)

Bahamut_Omega (811064) | about 2 years ago | (#39084011)

Then what to you call the cesspool known as Sun TV?

Obviously I'd say fascist garbage run by friends of Herr Harper and the ConservaNazis. I may have had bad karma from it on slashdot due to some conservative shit eaters. The Conservatives are withdrawing from the Bank of Reality and the cheques are bouncing like superballs.

Re:vikileaks3 traced back to the NDP opposition pa (1)

Suddenly_Dead (656421) | about 2 years ago | (#39084085)

I wasn't aware that anyone watched Sun TV. But yeah, that's the TV equivalent, our FOX News Channel

Re:vikileaks3 traced back to the NDP opposition pa (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39086751)

I wasn't aware that anyone watched Sun TV.

6000 viewers over supper hour! [blogspot.com]

And worse, it's mainly over-50s that the advertisers don't pay as much for.

Re:vikileaks3 traced back to the NDP opposition pa (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39084023)

Unfortunately for your argument, the entire HoC network is identified by one external-facing IP. The HoC guys can certainly tell whose computer was used... but at this point, you can't.

Some background (5, Informative)

Lev13than (581686) | more than 2 years ago | (#39081319)

Toews is Canada's version of Newt Gingrich with a bit of John Edwards thrown in for good measure. When he tabled an invasive citizens spying bill this week he declared that citizens were either with him or with the child pornographers [slashdot.org].

Toews campaigns on family values and "worships the ground that his wife walks on" (more on that below). He is a devout Mennonite and runs on his faith. He is on record for being anti-same sex marriage, anti-abortion and pro-gun. So, what does a fine, upstanding anti-pedophile Christian like him do on his days off? Why, he knocks up his family's teenage babysitter [conspiracy-cafe.com], of course. In Canada the age of consent is 16, but goes up to 18 when the younger party is in a position of trust - such as between a babysitter and employer. The girl in questions is believed to have been 17 when the affair started, so it's just plain sleazy on any level.

The Vickileaks site (rumoured to be from a Parliament Hill staffer) has been publishing the (public) records of his ugly divorce. What Toews is missing here is that information, once collected, takes on a life of its own. The parallel between his public divorce file and the impact of his proposed snooping legislation is a delicious irony, especially considering that the remarkably fertile prick is himself basically a child molester with better PR.

Re:Some background (0, Offtopic)

Mashiki (184564) | about 2 years ago | (#39081499)

Considering the Conservatives are the equivalent of democrats in the US, wouldn't you say he's closer to Teddy Kennedy? Even "right wing" politics in Canada is still far to the left of American.

Re:Some background (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39081727)

You must know jack shit about Canadian politics. The Liberals are basically Democrats (centre-left). The NDP are the left wing party, and the Greens are far left.

The Conservatives are Bush-style neocons.

Re:Some background (0, Troll)

Mashiki (184564) | about 2 years ago | (#39081763)

Skipped your basic politics courses in highscoo...oh wait they don't teach that in Canada anymore do they.. NDP are far left. Liberals are left. Many of the conservatives policies fall centreish or even left of centre even though they a 'right wing' party in politics in Canada. They align more closely to the democrats than to republicans, or even bush 'neo-cons'. Liberals align more closely to the lunatic fringe of the democrats. The NDP more closely to the american greens.

Re:Some background (4, Interesting)

vladilinsky (1071536) | about 2 years ago | (#39081987)

Acording to Political compass the NDP are almost exactly in the centre the Liberals are to the right and the Conservitives are far right, According to that site everyone has moved substantial to the right, to the point that the NDP are nearly where the Libs were 10 years ago and the Libs are where the Cons were 10 years ago. Intrestingly, it actually puts the Liberals right of Barak Obama.

http://politicalcompass.org/canada2011 [politicalcompass.org]

Still way more Left and Libertarian than the US (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39083927)

They're still way more left and Libertarian than any of the US candidates, including Obama.

Click on the US Presidential Election 2012 link, same page...

Re:Some background (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39082943)

And you must have read some sort of out dated material from... well... umm... never. Conservatives have been going more right-wing wing-nut as of late. Liberals have been going right of centre for a long time.

Re:Some background (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39081747)

Canadian Conservatives make Democrats look like right wing whack jobs. And I ain't no Conservative lover either. US political parties are scary fooked.

Re:Some background (4, Informative)

davecb (6526) | about 2 years ago | (#39081799)

The Progressive Conservatives were the equivalent of centrist Republicans, but they joined with Reform to become the just-plain Conservatives, who are roughly the Tea Party Republicans. Reform in Canada was pretty much the same as Ross Perot's Reform in the 'States.

--dave
[Full disclosure: I partnered with Perot Systems in my Siemens days: Ross' company was cool]

Re:Some background (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39081867)

That used to be true. The old Progressive-Conservatives (Tories)aligned roughly with the right wing of the Democratic Party, while the Liberals aligned with its left wing. However, that alignment went haywire during the Mulroney-Reagan era, when Mulroney espoused the sellout of Canada under the FTA and (most of) the Liberals opposed it-- in other words, swapping the positions they would have held if they really believed in their principles. Then the Liberals won and went hell-bent-for-leather into globalization, restrained (ironically enough) by both the old-style Tories and the NDP (social democrats). Then the Liberals imploded due to a corruption scandal while the Tories were still weak. The new upstart right-wing Reform Party had gained quite a few seats in the West and the Conservatives were down to a minority except in Ontario (most seats) so they figured their chances would be better if they merged. The resulting party was supposed to retain the old Tory principles (national sovereignty included) but that promise was immediately broken and most of the PCs quit in disgust. What was left was what I call the Reform-A-Tories--named Conservatives but actually the same narrow-minded, mostly undereducated bunch who hate easterners on general pinciples, Quebecers in particular, and also feminists, environmentalists, artists, First Peoples, and practically anyone not in the oil business. Most are eager to implement Dubya's policies here and/or sell of the 20% of our economy we still own. Politically I'd put them somewhere between Gingrich and Ron Paul. Consider Toews the Canadian Gingrich and you won't be far off.

Re:Some background (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39082889)

so they figured their chances would be better if they merged.

Actually it was a hostile takeover. The Reformers (calling themselves the Alliance) launched the 2cards campaign, where Reform members would pay for a membership in the Progressive Conservatives to vote for merger. It wasn't even wasting any money since the Tory bank accounts went to the new party after they merged. Canadian political parties have since changed their internal bylaws to stop anything like that happening to them.

Re:Some background (3, Interesting)

tlhIngan (30335) | about 2 years ago | (#39083621)

The Vickileaks site (rumoured to be from a Parliament Hill staffer) has been publishing the (public) records of his ugly divorce. What Toews is missing here is that information, once collected, takes on a life of its own. The parallel between his public divorce file and the impact of his proposed snooping legislation is a delicious irony, especially considering that the remarkably fertile prick is himself basically a child molester with better PR.

The whole reason Vickileaks was created was in response to the legislation. It wasn't a well-timed thing, it was a response. Basically saying that since the government wants the information, perhaps their information should be made public as well.

In another twist, a Liberal MP has asked for the surfing histories of all politicians and staffers, saying if it's good on the Canadian public, it's good on Government as well.

Re:Some background (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39084435)

In Canada the age of consent is 16, but goes up to 18 when the younger party is in a position of trust - such as between a babysitter and employer. The girl in questions is believed to have been 17 when the affair started, so it's just plain sleazy on any level.

s/just plain sleazy on any level/statutory rape/

Motherfucking Spies (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39081467)

These spies are spying on us, because they are operating under fucking corrupt officials and their directives, they are so bold they use state secrets and all manner of fucking psychopathic bullshit to prevent us from spying on them.

When enough disruption happens, there will be no stopping the anger

Redundant (2)

zAPPzAPP (1207370) | about 2 years ago | (#39081667)

Wouldn't that result in an endless loop of "Posting on Twitter right now"..?

Re:Redundant (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39082245)

Recursion is a wonderful thing :)

Louis Vuitton Outlet (-1)

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Your Blog is very good, I like it! For those women to keep a beautiful temperament and also stay fashion in winter,owning pieces of Louis Vuitton Outlet [louisvuitt...outlet.com] is necessary.

Read all about this sordid story here: (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39082535)

http://blogs.hitachi-id.com/blogs/idan/

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