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Is the Government Scaring Web Businesses Out of the US?

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the only-the-interesting-ones dept.

Government 271

suraj.sun sends this quote from an article at Techdirt: "The federal government has been paying lip service to the idea that it wants to encourage new businesses and startups in the U.S. And this is truly important to the economy, as studies have shown that almost all of the net job growth in this country is coming from internet startups. ... With the JotForm situation unfolding, where the U.S. government shut down an entire website with no notice or explanation, people are beginning to recognize that the U.S is not safe for internet startups. Lots of folks have been passing around [a] rather reasonable list of activities for U.S.-based websites."

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271 comments

Really? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39085099)

Is slashdot scaring away developers with more political submissions? Remember when there used to be a Developer section instead of all this political BS? I swear YRO has ruined this site.

Re:Really? (5, Insightful)

martas (1439879) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085133)

Perhaps there is too much politics on /., but this topic is highly relevant to a large portion of the user base here who own/operate web businesses, so I think your rant is misplaced.

Re:Really? (4, Insightful)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085943)

I don't think the problem is that there is too much politics, it's that there is too little technical content.

Re:Really? (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 2 years ago | (#39086167)

From what I've seen with the newer UIDs, talking about a web form is as technical as you could reasonably expect to go. Anything more complex, you're in spells and incantations land.

Re:Really? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39085225)

Is slashdot scaring away developers with more political submissions? Remember when there used to be a Developer section instead of all this political BS?

Are you trying to make a point? Do you not remember that Slashdot has always had technology related political articles going way back? Do you remember when Slashdot had all those articles in the 90s about the Microsoft trials about their monopoly?

Can you explain to me why we're posting with rhetorical questions?

Is this some sort of method of attracting attention?

I don't know. Awe shit! Did I just blow the rhetorical question there here?

Re:Really? (5, Funny)

Dave Emami (237460) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085683)

I don't know. Awe shit! Did I just blow the rhetorical question there here?

That's "aww, shit" -- unless, of course, you just looked into the toilet and are indeed in awe of what you beheld there.

Re:Really? (4, Interesting)

Paul Fernhout (109597) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085267)

"Is slashdot scaring away developers with more political submissions? Remember when there used to be a Developer section instead of all this political BS? I swear YRO has ruined this site."

Politics is about resource allocation. Much of computing design is about resource allocation, too. So they are more connected than you might think at first.

Re:Really? (5, Insightful)

furytrader (1512517) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085375)

No, economics is about resource allocation. Politics is about compelling others to serve your interests.

Re:Really? (4, Interesting)

Paul Fernhout (109597) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085419)

... through arguing over resource allocation. According to "Conceptual Guerilla", mainstream economics is just mainly a mythological cover story to justify elites:
"The Mythology of Wealth"
http://www.conceptualguerilla.com/?q=node/402 [conceptualguerilla.com]

Example:
http://www.responsiblefinance.ch/appeal/ [responsiblefinance.ch]
"The authors of this appeal are deeply concerned that more than three years since the outbreak of the financial and macroeconomic crisis that highlighted the pitfalls, limitations, dangers and responsibilities of main-stream thought in economics, finance and management, the quasi-monopolistic position of such thought within the academic world nevertheless remains largely unchallenged. This situation reflects the institutional power that the unconditional proponents of main-stream thought continue to exert on university teaching and research. This domination, propagated by the so-called top universities, dates back at least a quarter of a century and is effectively global. However, the very fact that this paradigm persists despite the current crisis, highlights the extent of its power and the dangerousness of its dogmatic character. Teachers and researchers, the signatories of the appeal, assert that this situation restricts the fecundity of research and teaching in economics, finance and management, diverting them as it does from issues critical to society."

Other ways to look at economics:
http://debunkingeconomics.com/ [debunkingeconomics.com]

And also the similarly named:
http://www.amazon.com/Economics-Rest-Us-Debunking-Science/dp/1595581014 [amazon.com]
"Why do contemporary economists consider food subsidies in starving countries, rent control in rich cities, and health insurance everywhere "inefficient"? Why do they feel that corporate executives deserve no less than their multimillion-dollar "compensation" packages and workers no more than their meager wages? Here is a lively and accessible debunking of the two elements that make economics the "science" of the rich: the definition of what is efficient and the theory of how wages are determined. The first is used to justify the cruelest policies, the second grand larceny. Filled with lively examples--from food riots in Indonesia to eminent domain in Connecticut and everyone from Adam Smith to Jeremy Bentham to Larry Summers--Economics for the Rest of Us shows how today's dominant economic theories evolved, how they explicitly favor the rich over the poor, and why they're not the only or best options. Written for anyone with an interest in understanding contemporary economic thinking--and why it is dead wrong--Economics for the Rest of Us offers a foundation for a fundamentally more just economic system."

Re:Really? (2)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 2 years ago | (#39086141)

i don't really agree with you, but what i do understand is that in any society where the rich receive too large a share of the wealth, fairness finds a way to reassert itself, by any means possible, including new ideology

conservatives: favoring the rich destroys people's faith in the idea that the system is fair. when that is destroyed, the society is eventually headed towards revolution, as they do not believe their interests are represented by their government

fairness should be the most important thing to your ideology. if it is not, if your ideology is cruel, then you are laying the foundation for the destruction of your society

no to universal healthcare? no to equal access to a good education? ok

then you shall reap what you sow

Re:Really? (1)

cold fjord (826450) | more than 2 years ago | (#39086493)

I found the article [conceptualguerilla.com] you pointed to at the Conceptual Guerilla [conceptualguerilla.com] to be an interesting piece at a site devoted to cutting edge progressive thought and politics. I think I've found a companion piece of similar gravitas [thepeoplescube.com] over at The People's Cube [thepeoplescube.com] .

Of course no web article is going to cover material like this in any real depth. Anyone wishing to explore related themes may want to consider some of the following books by prominent African American economist Thomas Sowell [hoover.org] :

Marxism: Philosophy and economics [barnesandnoble.com]
Conflict of Visions: Ideological Origins of Political Struggles [barnesandnoble.com]
Affirmative Action around the World: An Empirical Study [barnesandnoble.com]
Race and Culture: A World View [barnesandnoble.com]
Intellectuals and Society [barnesandnoble.com]
Basic Economics 4th Ed: A Common Sense Guide to the Economy [barnesandnoble.com]
Economic Facts and Fallacies: Second Edition [barnesandnoble.com]
The Housing Boom and Bust, Revised Edition [barnesandnoble.com]
Black Rednecks and White Liberals [barnesandnoble.com]
Dismantling America: And Other Controversial Essays by Thomas Sowell [barnesandnoble.com]

Thomas Sowell will never have the following of a Chomsky, but then he doesn't have Chomsky's genocide denier [ipa.org.au] problem. (Cambodian genocide [wikipedia.org] )

Politics vs. Economics - Short-term decisions have long-term effects [nationalreview.com]
Evil-Man Economics [nationalreview.com]

Re:Really? (2)

thereitis (2355426) | more than 2 years ago | (#39086213)

I'd like to see the tech community make an effort to reverse-engineer politician's thinking process. It's clearly different from that of a normal person.

Re:Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39085279)

Considering that being a failure in one section means at most getting laughed at by fellow developers, while the other could get you prison time and/or financial ruin, I'd say, you should set your priorities straight.

The open source community is just maturing. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39085297)

What we're actually seeing is the open source community maturing. Since Slashdot was one of the first major gathering points for open source advocates, we're seeing this maturation happen here first.

While open source software had its roots in the political upheaval of the 1960s and 1970s, the number of true old-timers ("neckbeards", if you will) pales in comparison to the younger generation who really made open source software take off. I'm talking about the Linuses and the Alan Coxes and now even those open source advocates born after 1990.

These younger people are finally seeing how important politics is in any movement. They're now seeing that the technology is one part of the pie, but playing the political game is another big chunk. You're damn right that politics is becoming more important to these people!

Technology is so intertwined with politics these days that you can't unwind them. You get them both, and you need to learn to enjoy it this way.

Re:The open source community is just maturing. (4, Insightful)

Paul Fernhout (109597) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085353)

"Technology is so intertwined with politics these days that you can't unwind them."

Great post. Lawrence Lessig says in his book "Code 2.0" that there are at least four ways to influence behavior (a key issue in politics). The are rules, norms, prices, and (computer and other) architecture.
http://codev2.cc/ [codev2.cc]

Re:The open source community is just maturing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39086335)

Also read Program or be Programmed it's a good book for anyone who feels like they're addicted to their smartphone/laptop.

Re:Really? (5, Insightful)

AngryDeuce (2205124) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085363)

This "political BS" effects the livelihoods of many of the people that read /..

Honestly, I come here to read stories like this more than anything, because lord knows that the Mainstream Media doesn't give a fuck about covering this shit. We didn't even hear a peep about SOPA in the media until the fucking boycotts, months after it was making waves through the tech sites.

Re:Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39085971)

This "political BS" effects the livelihoods of many of the people that read /..

Honestly, I come here to read stories like this more than anything, because lord knows that the Mainstream Media doesn't give a fuck about covering this shit. We didn't even hear a peep about SOPA in the media until the fucking boycotts, months after it was making waves through the tech sites.

set up an RSS feed for techdirt, Mike gives it all the coverage you could wish for

Re:Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39086179)

It all makes sense as soon as you drop the fantasy that Obama wants to help the United States.

Developers Still Read Slashdot? Really? (2, Informative)

RobotRunAmok (595286) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085533)

Dude, the days when slashdot was read attentively by developers and other IT decision-makers is long past (just don't tell that to InfoWorld, which still pays a premium to astroturf here).

This is a tech-and-gadget flavored Newser.com, with open-source stories replacing the celebrity bits ("Linux instead of Lohan!"). Wired Magazine was exclusive and tech-elite when it started as well, and now it's all "Green Energy" and Rolex ads.

The word "geek" has lost all meaning; one need only note all the slick sales-and-marketing suits now smugly referring to themselves as "movie geeks."

Language changes. Media evolves. And writers and media-owners gotta pay the bills somehow...

Re:Developers Still Read Slashdot? Really? (4, Insightful)

muon-catalyzed (2483394) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085825)

Slashdot is enduring as the best technology oriented hive-mind on the whole Internet. Insights you get here are often rare and unparalleled. I bet lots of new devs and also industry veterans still around.

Re:Developers Still Read Slashdot? Really? (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 2 years ago | (#39086197)

Don't Bogart that joint, my friend.

Re:Really? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39085837)

>I swear YRO has ruined this site.

Hello,
I am reading Slashdot since 1999 and I do agree.

When in late 2001 the Bush administration continued the work of terrorists by terrorizing freedom-loving americans with all kinds of online and offline securities, Slashdot became political and I deeply disliked that.

I used to visit this place here many times a day and even cared to be logged in before I comment.

Today even 4chan is more relevant to my interests.

When Dennis Ritchie died Slashdot was 3 days late to report that. 4chan already had a sticky thread with more them 4000 comments of old and young nerds expressing their grief.

I don't mind nerd related politics. But you all know that Slashdot has attracted moderators in the last 10 years that are 100% sensation, politics, plugs and just plain BS.

I visit this site only once a week now.

Bullshit (0, Troll)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085151)

If you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to fear. Just make sure you follow the law.
 

Re:Bullshit (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39085163)

Not just you. Also all the users of your website have to follow it!

Re:Bullshit (4, Insightful)

pegasustonans (589396) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085187)

If you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to fear. Just make sure you follow the law.

That only holds true for law-based definitions of right and wrong.

Many would diverge rather sharply from the law in their personal ethical equations, so it's best not to confuse the two.

Re:Bullshit (4, Insightful)

gbjbaanb (229885) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085511)

That only holds true for law-based definitions of right and wrong

except when it comes to JotForm the law wasn't followed, so they had noting to fear, had done nothing wrong, and still the law enforcement agencies stomped on them.

Re:Bullshit (2)

pegasustonans (589396) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085563)

That only holds true for law-based definitions of right and wrong

except when it comes to JotForm the law wasn't followed, so they had noting to fear, had done nothing wrong, and still the law enforcement agencies stomped on them.

I agree with you, but isn't part of the issue certain people in law enforcement pay attention to the laws in their favor but ignores the others they're breaking?

The complexity of current law can enable some pretty nefarious actions.

Re:Bullshit (2)

Shienarier (185368) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085201)

The problem is that most companies doesn't like the US law, so they are leaving.
Wasn't that the entire point of this article?

Re:Bullshit (5, Informative)

chrylis (262281) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085211)

Not sure if you're a troll or an idiot. JotForm and Dajaz1 both had their sites returned after the feds admitted that there had been no wrongdoing but they'd been shut down anyway, and Rojadirecta (which is still offline) actually had a court judgment saying it was legal.

Re:Bullshit (5, Insightful)

Curunir_wolf (588405) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085321)

Not sure if you're a troll or an idiot. JotForm and Dajaz1 both had their sites returned after the feds admitted that there had been no wrongdoing

Oh, how kind of them! Were the companies compensated for their losses? Did they issue a formal apology so the businesses could demonstrate to customers that they had been wrongly accused?

What happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? This seems like the opposite. How about "prior restraint" of speech and trade? That's supposed to be illegal in the US.

Re:Bullshit (4, Insightful)

AngryDeuce (2205124) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085541)

What happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

Oh, that takes far too long for the MAFIAA's tastes. "Better that ten innocent persons suffer than that one guilty person escape" should be their new motto.

Re:Bullshit (3, Insightful)

errandum (2014454) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085587)

You completely missed the point of his rant. He was arguing for your point.

Re:Bullshit (2)

gbjbaanb (229885) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085565)

so why hasn't someone made a complaint against them> I mean, if a cop decides to beat me for no reason, he gets investigated (and if there's evidence) gets convicted. If a federal agent shuts down a website with no court order, are they just as much breaking the law?

Re:Bullshit (5, Informative)

AngryDeuce (2205124) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085695)

I mean, if a cop decides to beat me for no reason, he gets investigated (and if there's evidence) gets convicted.

Yeah, right. More likely he gets a paid vacation for a few weeks (if even that), a slap on the wrist, and then he's back on the streets to abuse people just like he learned back in grade school bullying his classmates.

Hell, how hard is it to even prove that the beating was "for no reason"? Cops already routinely confiscate any video proof of their misdeeds, even from innocent bystanders [wbur.org] . And those dash-cams? Good luck depending on those to exonerate you [komonews.com] .

Re:Bullshit (1)

misexistentialist (1537887) | more than 2 years ago | (#39086219)

Imagine if the bully was given pepper spray and a taser by the principal so he would stop hitting. He would never want to go home!

Re:Bullshit (2)

Moonrazor (897598) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085713)

Cops can't get "Top Secret - Classified" stamped all over the wrong things they do which makes it easier to hold them accountable. The Feds on the other hand, just hide everything under the "threat to national security" blanket and good luck proving anything against them while it's still relevant there.

Re:Bullshit (5, Insightful)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085657)

Have you ever done IT in a professional environment or worked outside a university or small business?

Here is a lesson for you. Rule #1 these systems absolutely, positively, can not go down. Why? Because you are talking tens to hundres of thousands an hour of lost productivity for their customers. Technology is so integrated in corporate America today that the workers will just sit there and chat and browse slashdot and Yahoo news if their work is on JotForm. Business customers can go out of business if they can't work in a day. Razor thin 5% profit margins and uptight customers who need work done YESTERDAY will refuse to do business with them if they fail to meet a deadline. A day or two downtime can cost millions of lost business and productivity to US businesses and JotForm itself.

JotForm is doomed.

For JotForm this means lost customers and a bankruptacy.I sure as hell would not do business with them. If I owned a business I would jump ship and look for a foreign rival in a friendly country like India or Communist China where I do not have to lose all my money I saved going to the cloud that was lost by the US Government. Go read the comments in Jotform? The users do not give a shit and are furious! I would be too if I invested tens of thousands and lost up to millions the past 2 days while this has been sorted out.

Infact if I ever move up the corporate ladder or own a business I will stipulate in my contract that it has to be done overseas or have a backup there if something happens to the US servers. I know I angered some slashdotters who work in IT or are looking for work at cloud providers but tough shit. I have a business to run and sorry but vote for people who wont scare us away from US investments. Yes this is bad as I feel like an asshole for even stating that but with jobs on the line and hundreds of thousands of dollars and hour in lost productivity all risks need to be analyized. People get fired for picking solution providers who fail and yes these customers need to protect themselves.

This and the fact that the FBI just raids ISPs offices and takes servers with hundreds of domains awya with them is scary as hell. It doens't matter Chrylis if they are later found innocent. If you owned the hosting company you are done.

Re:Bullshit (3, Interesting)

chrylis (262281) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085889)

We're arguing on the same side; the parent to my post got modded into oblivion. He said that if you're legal, you have nothing to fear; I'm pointing out that several legal sites have already been blown away for exactly the reasons you describe.

Re:Bullshit (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39086131)

For JotForm this means lost customers and a bankruptacy.I sure as hell would not do business with them. If I owned a business I would jump ship and look for a foreign rival in a friendly country like India or Communist China where I do not have to lose all my money I saved going to the cloud that was lost by the US Government. Go read the comments in Jotform? The users do not give a shit and are furious! I would be too if I invested tens of thousands and lost up to millions the past 2 days while this has been sorted out.

Exactly, the FBI pretty much signed JotForm's "death warrant" by "oops, we didn't really have a reason to shut them down".
There's no longer a rule of law where you are "innocent until *proven* guilty", they don't need to go to a judge with *proof* of some wrongdoing, they can just shut you down at a whim and kill your business. As long as that continues, it makes sense for business to flee the country.

Much the same idea as the whole MF Global thing - they blatantly *steal* customer money, the big banks collude with the regulators to get placed "1st on the list" in the bankruptcy so the customers who's money was "safely segregated" get screwed - and NOBODY GOES TO JAIL. Money has been fleeing the CME since... gee, wonder why? They've basically said "we can f**k you, and there's nothing you can do about it"... well, yeah, there is - take your money and go elsewhere.

Re:Bullshit (4, Insightful)

erroneus (253617) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085343)

...until they change the law to make what you're doing illegal. And these days it's "the competition" writing the law through the use of their lobbyists and contributions. It's not like they are even trying to hide this fact. It's right in front of your face.

Re:Bullshit (5, Insightful)

AngryDeuce (2205124) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085403)

If you've done nothing wrong you've got nothing to fear.

Yeah, right. That's about as stupid as the "If you have nothing to hide..." bullshit.

The government doesn't even need to prove that you (or your users) did anything wrong before they punish you. Look at the Jotform crap for proof of that. That business is more than likely ruined now; who's gonna trust a cloud storage site that could get nuked off the face of the internet again because some random asshole posted something that violates IP somewhere on it?

I really hope to God you were being sarcastic, and if so, will gladly accept my "WOOOOOOSH".

Re:Bullshit (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39085487)

Money quote from the ARS article, from a non-American user of Internet services: "I will now have to question purchasing any more services from US internet related providers."

Australian businesses are now being urged to avoid doing any business at all with American companies, as the simple use of outsourcing data processing to an American-based company gives Uncle Sam the impression that he owns the data.

If you don't see the severity of this, then your eyes are most definitely NOT OPEN.

I'm an American living in Europe, and am slowly migrating all of my Internet "things" away from the States as I fear a corrupt, power-hungry US government run amok. Let me respond to your statement with two simple questions and answers:

1) Am I trafficking in child porn, pirated software or anything else illegal? OF COURSE NOT.
2) Am I concerned that parts of my websites will suddenly be unavailable due to some police investigation on a third party that I do business with, causing financial damages to me that the US Gubment could care less about? HELLZ YEAH.

I hear you brother. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39086565)

Here in Canada they want the no warrant thing too.

So what to do?

Do I put the servers at the ISP? Where some clueless script kiddie with a USB stick, a cop badge and a batmobile can come in unannounced, wreck the whole thing, then oooops, ssshhhhh, sneak the fuck out and tell no one. Me not knowing until the phone rings off the hook with client's lawyers spouting the most dreaded words "Contract Cancellation" and "Business Interruption"? If there is not just a hole in the racks where the servers used to be?

Or do I keep the servers in the house with the wife and kids and the dogs and the goldfish where some trigger happy kid with a cop badge and an mp5 can shoot them all?

What if I am out of town, doing something, like, I don't know, earning a living? Are they going to start harassing friends, familiy and ciients looking for me? Spreading fear and lies? Ruining lives and reputations?

How does one deal with this? What's the plan for zero downtime operations in a no knock, no warrant police state? What are the hardware and software requirements? What OS is best? Jesus, where's all the cash going to come from? How do I admin this from the secret prison that they don't have to tell anyone about?

Who's gonna pay my bills, alimony, taxes, rent when I am in prision, and the cashflow from the businesses stop because they broke them all?

Hey spooks. I'm gonna say it here, real plain, so you don't need to bother stealing and/or wreaking my servers and my businesses.

HARPER IS AN ASSHOLE.

Re:Bullshit (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39085863)

Alright, I found him! The one guy that thinks this is a good idea. I was wondering if you even existed. Can I get an autograph?

They got it wrong (1, Interesting)

X.25 (255792) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085155)

It's not US government shutting down US sites.

It is US government shutting down all other sites, so that users around world end up having to use US based 'service providers'.

That and "intellectual property" are the only 2 things that can keep US economy afloat for bit longer.

And they're betting big on it.

Re:They got it wrong (4, Insightful)

peragrin (659227) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085627)

and they are going to lose.

The thing is in order to expand and grow you need new ideas. tougher IP laws actually restrict new ideas and slow down development. That is why China and India have or ignore IP laws. It is why after WWII the USA ignored IP laws for 30 plus years.

however when you get complacent you make tougher IP laws, which prevents someone else from taking a good idea and moving it in another direction. Think of the number of Patents in a cell phone or even worse a smart phone and realize that those patents are from the 1990's.

The tighter you grip on imaginary property the less you are likely to dream up something new.

JotForm takedown (4, Informative)

Geoffrey.landis (926948) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085167)

The ars technica article has some useful background: arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/02/secret-service-asks-for-shutdown-of-legit-website-over-user-content-godaddy-complies.ars [arstechnica.com]

Sounds like a good reason to leave GoDaddy, IMO.

Re:JotForm takedown (5, Informative)

aaarrrgggh (9205) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085207)

Sounds like yet another good reason to leave GoDaddy, IMO.

Fixed that for you.

Re:JotForm takedown (4, Insightful)

AngryDeuce (2205124) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085455)

Sounds like a good reason to leave GoDaddy, IMO.

How many more do people fucking need?

Re:JotForm takedown (4, Interesting)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085881)

Sounds like a good reason to leave GoDaddy, IMO.

Sounds like a good reason for a decentralized name resolution system.

While GoDaddy are a bunch of scummy toadies, they aren't the real problem. The real problem is the tendency of those in power to abuse their power. Today it is the secret service and godaddy, tomorrow it could easily be some other government and some other DNS provider.

Ultimately the only solution is to decentralize name resolution. Sure that comes with a whole host of problems on its own, starting with trust and reliability. But the current hierarchal DNS is just such an easy single-point-of-choking that it is inevitable that the powerful will abuse it.

OH canada (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39085175)

we stand on guard ....for theee...the usa has hollywood ram you so badly that it causes none to do any business there OH good one.
NOW we can add copyrights kill business.....

The USA is dying (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39085185)

Just wait until Santorum gets elected and he will because liberals are too butthurt to stop him.

Re:The USA is dying (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39085307)

Just wait until Santorum gets elected and he will because liberals are too butthurt to stop him.

The Progressives did it.

Re:The USA is dying (0)

ArsenneLupin (766289) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085927)

Great pun, hehe...

Folks, Santorum can be avoided if you observe basic hygiene!

Businesses are doing themselves (1)

statsone (1981504) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085191)

do you trust a US based web hosting company after recent events?

Godaddy and Jotform.com comes to mind
http://it.slashdot.org/story/12/02/16/231212/jotformcom-gets-shut-down-sopa-style

The US government, under pressure from the entertainment industry is doing it. Companies like godaddy are making things worse.

10 Year plan vs daily/weekly bullshit laws (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39085253)

It's rather fuckin moot to try to plan ten years ahead when the laws change to being more and more draconian and unconstitutional every couple days/weeks.
This is full spectrum disruption. Who dare run a music blog when the lables don't even know what the current law is? Who dare hire employees when health-insurance, and tax is unstable and unpredictable, with a monetary system that is unregulated and corrupt to the fuckin core? Who dare take a loan in this depression/inflation enviornment? Who wants to pay for video bandwidth, when streaming a video is now a felony?

Who suffers? ebay, paypal, amazon, domain sellers, hosting, isp's, software developers, bloggers, bands, labels, video production, video promotion. You want real people to discuss fixes, better get rid of all this fascist, war on terrorism, cyberwar propaganda psychopathic bullshit.

Re:10 Year plan vs daily/weekly bullshit laws (5, Interesting)

Paul Fernhout (109597) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085299)

One problem is that the latest "war of the da"y is always profitable to somebody:
http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm [lexrex.com]
"WAR is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes."

War is just not usually beneficial to most people who have to pay the costs (which includes the US taxpayer, as well as all the victims abroad or at home who were in the way...)

And so a society consumes itself, burning itself to the ground because every incremental step makes sense to the fire... Where are the "political" firefighters when we need them?

Sorry to repeat myself but... (4, Insightful)

sgt scrub (869860) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085257)

Put hosting in countries where the RIAA hides its money from the tax man, Switzerland, Luxumbourg, etc... Being a bully to a country that has dirt on you is a line they won't cross. I think.

Re:Sorry to repeat myself but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39085397)

If they hide their money in those countries, those countries have an interest to keep the companies happy, so I don't think your idea would work.

Re:Sorry to repeat myself but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39085643)

"Put hosting in countries where the RIAA hides its money from the tax man, Switzerland, Luxumbourg, etc..."

Sorry, but in those 2 countries money gets taxed at the source and the result anonymously sent to the home country.

Re:Sorry to repeat myself but... (1)

muon-catalyzed (2483394) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085883)

US warrant will alert Europol and the local Switzerland/Luxembourg authorities in no time. I would think it is more important that the server guy is serving to US audience or US customers, where his server is physically located might be less important.

What does "net new jobs" mean? (1)

Chrondeath (757612) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085287)

I keep seeing various statistics about where all (or some percentage of) the "net new jobs" come from, but I'm not sure I understand what it means. Are they just saying "Internet startups (or whatever) added 100 more jobs than they lost, and the economy as a whole added 100 more jobs than it lost, so all the gain came from internet startups"? That doesn't seem like a legitimate claim (any number of other categories could have had the same net job gain, as long as enough jobs were lost from at least one other category...)

Re:What does "net new jobs" mean? (4, Interesting)

Paul Fernhout (109597) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085319)

Good questions. Please keep digging...

Some of my own thoughts on that:
http://pdfernhout.net/beyond-a-jobless-recovery-knol.html [pdfernhout.net]
"This article explores the issue of a "Jobless Recovery" mainly from a heterodox economic perspective. It emphasizes the implications of ideas by Marshall Brain and others that improvements in robotics, automation, design, and voluntary social networks are fundamentally changing the structure of the economic landscape. It outlines towards the end four major alternatives to mainstream economic practice (a basic income, a gift economy, stronger local subsistence economies, and resource-based planning). These alternatives could be used in combination to address what, even as far back as 1964, has been described as a breaking "income-through-jobs link". This link between jobs and income is breaking because of the declining value of most paid human labor relative to capital investments in automation and better design. Or, as is now the case, the value of paid human labor like at some newspapers or universities is also declining relative to the output of voluntary social networks such as for digital content production (like represented by this document). It is suggested that we will need to fundamentally reevaluate our economic theories and practices to adjust to these new realities emerging from exponential trends in technology and society."

Re:What does "net new jobs" mean? (3, Interesting)

twotailakitsune (1229480) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085491)

We need to start moving more away from human labor. In 30 years we should not need money. You do a job because you love it. Robot slaves can do the work Humans don't want to do.

Data - the new "cocaine"? (2)

acidradio (659704) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085311)

At this rate data, information and knowledge will be the new thing to smuggle. But there doesn't seem to be a "border"... yet. We will all be the mules. Like anything good they will try and cut it off. Who will be the 21st century's Pablo Escobar?

Re:Data - the new "cocaine"? (4, Funny)

AngryDeuce (2205124) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085749)

At this rate data, information and knowledge will be the new thing to smuggle.

Who would have thought Johnny Mnemonic would have been so prophetic?! [youtube.com]

Re:Data - the new "cocaine"? (1)

Lanteran (1883836) | more than 2 years ago | (#39086599)

Just what I was thinking, if only I had modpoints.

In other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39085335)

The sky is still blue. Water is still wet, and fire still burns.

Re:In other news... (1)

sjames (1099) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085833)

Nope, sorry, Grogggs posthumous submarine patent finally came in. You'll have to put that fire out now or pay treble damages for willful infringement.

Sort of related. A question. (1)

bmo (77928) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085361)

Does anyone know what the fuck happened to ompldr.org?

Did they get busted or just run out of money? No FBI/DHS/ page or anything, because DNS is busted too.

It went *poof* and there's nothing I can find anywhere about it.

TIA.

--
BMO

It's "legislation for rent" that costs jobs (5, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085371)

Companies will always try to invest as little as necessary to keep their revenue high. For most companies, the best of all changes would be exactly none. ANY change means having to adapt to it, and adapting costs money.

Now that the last of the big corps has caught on that it's cheaper to buy laws than to change strategies, the "new" (ok, not soooo new, but think of it in terms of magnitude) way to increase or at least keep revenues high is not to adapt, innovate and improve past the competition, the strategy is to buy laws to eliminate the competition.

And the biggest competition for big (and hence wealthy, and thus able to buy said laws) companies is "the internet". Face it, few of the big ol' ones really benefited from the internet's success. New competition arose and they have an edge. Faster to respond, easier to use for their customers, there's just very little big old ones can do against that directly.

So what they can do is change the rules of the game.

Changing those rules, though, means that the power stays in the hands of old companies and new startups get squashed, not by superior products or better service, but simply by the monetary power to change the rules.

And that's pretty much anathema to capitalism, folks. What we're getting here is the worst kind of socialism. Remember why the USSR fell? Outdated production means that were artificially kept alive while the rest of the world passed them, which made them completely uncompetitive on the global market.

Welcome to the future USSA.

So what? (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39085575)

Competition over scarce resources isn't just the founding principle of capitalism, it is the founding principle of life.

If you want something, you have to compete against others who also want it. And if you get it, that means that someone else does not.

There are a few exceptions...like air....but political power is definitely *not* such an exception. Wealth is the same thing.

So of course those who have it are fighting to keep it, and of course they are striking the best balance they can between what seems most likely to work and what they are most likely to be able to get away with. They have every incentive to do this, just as you have every incentive to knock them down and take from them as much of their wealth and power as you can.

Sit and whine about how evil they are for wanting the same thing as you, or jump into the fight, it's your choice.

No. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39085399)

It's the Scumbag corporations that are greedy ass hats that refuse to share the pile of money out there.

Want a target, target the MPAA,RIAA and every company that sues others over software patents. They are the real enemies of the State.

Because they are the ones that bribe the Congress men an women to fight for evil things like SOPA. ANY congressman that supported SOPA is proof that they are on the bribe payroll.

Work hard to vote out anyone that ever touched that evil thing, and make it clear that any future support of anti-freedom laws will also be met with swift opposition.

Wait, this is the USA... All the populace does is watch TV and moo....

Mooooooo..

Re:No. (1)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085675)

Moo! [musicians4freedom.com]

Ackshurley (1)

sempir (1916194) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085429)

not all of the Govt is scaring web business away.........just the part of it that carries out the laws according to its interpretation.

Correction (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39085483)

people are beginning to recognize that the U.S is not safe

It's not just on the internet anymore...

Need to end censorship and survellience (3, Insightful)

Eravnrekaree (467752) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085529)

Of course the US governments attitude to websites is going to have an affect on the confidence of website operators to be able to locate there and may make many look at other countries to host it instead. The prosecution of the web site owners for the actions of their users, which they cannot control, most stop, as well as the PIPA and SOPA nonsense, and the country needs to implement full Network Nuetrality. That is a recipe for creating a truly pro-consumer, pro-jobs environment that is also good for website operators.

The fact is that the GOP pretty much is an enemy of freedom, and has for years been the paid agent of the large media corporations which seems to want to trample over free speech turn the webpage in to a one way TV MTV equivalent. Another concerning thing is the fact that the conservatives are regressives and often driven by extreme theocratic tendancies, ready to force their religious ideas and moralities on others and trample over freedom of speech as a result.The high levels of income inequality that the GOP has caused through our low taxes on the wealthy has also been detrimental to other businesses, by draining money out of the pockets of the middle class, and shrinking the middle class significantly. if we really wanted to live in a country that was healthy we would restore the millionaire tax bracket to what it was in the 50s and 60s and elect liberals to office that will respect our freedoms, are not religious whackjobs, who will eliminate ridiculous laws that conservatives try to pass that lead to censorship and try to force the government into deciding what is "indecent", the government has no right to decide such a thing and things which are indecent cannot be censored, but we have social conservatives in the GOP who are basically totalitarian theocrats who would like to destroy free speech and force their religious moralities on everyone. We dont need a bigoted, theocratic religious whackjob religious nutjobs banning harmless and consensual activities such as pornography and other harmless, indecent things.

There needs to be a internet bill of rights that would also ban any censorship, that would prohibit ISPs or government from storing any information on traffic that can be used to monitor individual users such as source and destination IPs and so on, would stop ISPs from discriminating against certain traffic and so on. The fear based tactic they so often used exploits anxieties, and obscure the fact that any action or policy is not justifiable to prevent crime, such as survellience, tracking and monitoring without warrant are unacceptable in a free society and these things cannot be justified in order to prevent crime. If we allow these activities we open the door as well to their abuse by corporations and governments, they are perfect tools for trying to keep track of people who have unpopular views and opinons, and use that information against them. The less right to privacy people have, the less safe they are.

Many large corporations , such as the major record labels, have interests opposite that of small businesses and common people. Their goal is to maintain and consolidate wealth and that means hoarding and consolidating wealthy by suppressing the wages of other workers and using their control over large parts of the money to basically consolidate wealthy. We need common, average people to have a lot of money in their pocket and to avoid having certain corporations dominating much of that, through suppression of wages, thus crowding out small businesses as well as impoversiing common workers. The policies that the wealthy elite hate the most, a high income and corporate tax on the wealthy, is exactly what the country needs to put more money back into average peoples pockets and to give workers more power such as through unions, all things that will give common people more spending power, money to buy things other than to shop at wal mart. The attacks on unions and the demands for more tax cuts for the rich are ultimately unhealthy, they allow a few corporations to grab control of mroe of the wealth, harm workers, destroy jobs (millionaires by definition destroy jobs since this money, money that would have existed anyway, and even the parts of market they dominate would have existed anyway, could have otherwise been to create jobs), and basically enslave workers resulting them in having almost right on the workplace to fight back against abusive conditions and poverty wages.

The income inequality caused by Conservatives has also led to the wealthy elite being able to basically buy the political process and vastly overpower the common people. They have a bullhorn that is worth millions of dollars that vastly overpowers and drowns out the voices of others and dominates the corporate shill media which asna conservative/corporate 1% bias due to simply being funded by large corporate 1%.

Re:Need to end censorship and survellience (2)

Paul Fernhout (109597) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085967)

Lots of interesting ideas there.

One question is that it is probably more the Democrats than the GOP Republicans who are in bed with Hollywood, according to this previous slashdot article:
http://politics.slashdot.org/story/12/02/03/1322205/how-the-gop-and-the-tea-party-helped-kill-sopa [slashdot.org]
""Strengthening intellectual property enforcement has been a bipartisan issue for the past 25 years, but Stewart Baker writes in the Hollywood Reporter that when the fight went from the committees to the floor and Wikipedia went down, the Democratic and Republican parties reacted very differently to SOPA. 'Despite widespread opposition to SOPA from bloggers on the left, Democrats in Congress (and the administration) were reluctant to oppose the bill outright,' writes Baker. 'The MPAA was not shy about reminding them that Hollywood has been a reliable source of funding for Democratic candidates, and that it would not tolerate defections.' That very public message from the MPAA also reached another audience -- Tea Party conservatives. Most of them had never given a second thought to intellectual property enforcement, but many had drawn support from conservative bloggers and they began to ask why they should risk the ire of their internet supporters to rescue an industry that was happily advertising how much it hated them.""

That is not to disagree with many other points about economic changes needed to benefit most people that you insightfully make.

A big problem is that the USA has been painted as a post-agriculture, post-manufacturing, even soon post-service-using-robotics-and-offshoring country. What does that leave if we are to keep with the old economic paradigm -- copyright ownership and patents? But who is going to pay for copyrights with so much free stuff coming through the web. So, we really need much broader socioeconomic change than either major US party (or even most minor parties) are talking about. It will come. It's just a question of how much people will suffer as the process is drawn out...

Re:Need to end censorship and survellience (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39086099)

The fact is that the GOP pretty much is an enemy of freedom, and has for years been the paid agent of the large media corporations which seems to want to trample over free speech turn the webpage in to a one way TV MTV equivalent.

Spoken like a true Democrat hack. Paid any attention to the last 4 years?

Re:Need to end censorship and survellience (1)

lightknight (213164) | more than 2 years ago | (#39086147)

Hmm. The US's approach to a global network is somewhat backward -> who wants to do business with us if the mere interaction may result in your extradition from your home country? Since any interaction, including having US customers or storing files on a server located on US-controlled territory, can result in a potential disaster, why take the chance? It's not like the internet infrastructure the US does have is anything special -> we may have cooked up the idea of the internet, but our residential connections are far below that of many of our peers (and to add insult to injury, legislation is trying to make those connections slower with higher costs). I imagine that storing data on our servers is looked upon, by citizens of our countries, as the equivalent of spending a weekend with the KGB; yes, yes, we're Americans, we're morally superior, we're the good guys, right? But people are often blind to their own errors of judgement.

censor (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39085551)

the beacon of hope, equality, liberty, women and kid saver, democracy imposer, so and so... reached this stage.

not sure what is in store in other countries now.

And here I was.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39085581)

And here I was, thinking that maybe it's worth moving my two UK-based SaaS businesses to the US, since I am a US citizen (well, there's also the weather difference)..

Yes, the USG is scaring away business (5, Interesting)

msobkow (48369) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085593)

One of the main reasons I opted for the ISP I'm using for my business is not the fact that they're cheaper (it's only $10/month difference), but the fact that SaskTel hosts their data center in Florida, and the one I'm using is hosted in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan.

I don't want my business anywhere near US regulation and control without oversight and intervention by Canadian authorities. The US has been proving to be insanely jackbootish about their approach to the internet for the past 2-5 years, and I simply do NOT want to take the chance of having them interfere with my business.

Or rather, I don't want US media companies interfering with my business. They don't do proper checks before issuing their takedown requests, and were I in the US, I'd be effectively subject to domain seizure and content takedowns without due process and the chance to defend myself. That is an UNACCEPTABLE BUSINESS RISK when it is so easy to avoid.

Worse, the US dollar is in such a sorry state that I will not be accepting payments in greenbacks. I want to be paid in a stable currency that I don't have to pay exchange rates on in order to spend -- namely Canadian dollars. For years I've had to pay extra to convert my Canadian currency to US dollars to pay for goods and services ordered out of the US. The shoe is on the other foot now.

Even if I work a contract in the US for a US company, I'll either be paid in Canadian dollars or charging a 5% premium for the hassle of converting US currency to Canadian dollars (it's a 2-3% bank fee as well, so 5% isn't as much as you might think.) Add in the fact that all foreign payments get held by the bank for 30 days, and the resulting lost opportunity cost of having my money tied up and inaccessible, and I find I really don't have much interest in business south of the border at all right now.

Besides, if I have to travel to service a customer, I may as well visit somewhere I've never been before, preferably China, Australia, New Zealand, or Germany. (I've just always wanted to see those countries some day. I've already spent about 12 years living and working in the US, so I've seen the US. I want to see someplace different next.)

Re:Yes, the USG is scaring away business (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39086553)

Canadian likes Canada whoopee shit, we dont care about your online pharmacy and since you dont want our money whats the fucking problem other to bitch just to bitch

The "Buffett Rule" (a.k.a. AMT #2) is scarier... (1, Troll)

xxxJonBoyxxx (565205) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085607)

To the tech business owners I know the so-called "Buffet Rule" (kind of a second bite at the alternative minimum tax apple) is far more frightening than any specific takedown action.

Sweden, FTW! (1)

Skapare (16644) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085617)

Or other Scandinavian countries.

Sweden? That toadie nation? (3, Insightful)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085671)

Isn't Sweden that is prosecuting Assange on behalve of its American masters? Or went after the pirate bay which wasn't breaking its own local laws on behalve of its Amercan masters?

At least Americans can vote out their leaders, Swedes can only vote for which puppet is stuck on the hand.

Re:Sweden? That toadie nation? (1)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085805)

No. He's involved in a sex crime investigation at the behest of someone he may have raped.

Either the federal government is too incompetent at pinning something on Assange or the federal government doesn't care about him that much.

Getting rid of Assange does nothing. Stopping their leaks however...

Someone please tell me why this isn't Bullshit. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39085653)

Is the USA screwing with any websites that host only original content?

Exorbitant prices (1)

englishstudent (1638477) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085709)

Are the exorbitant prices charged for US software also an attempt at fostering business in America??? (Adobe CS5 is double the price in many places abroad and there are ridiculous mark up prices on steam games purchased outside of the states-originally mark up was thought to be due to the currency exchange-but found to be false once America's dollar went to s#it)

Not as simple as moving the server/registrar! (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39085767)

I had a site shut down, when I get back on my feet, I'm going to take it to Canada... this is NOT as easy as moving the server!

As I plan my recovery, I'm learning that it isn't enough to just move your server over there. You've got to actually *be* Canadian if you don't want your site taken down. (sure, you could lie about it, make it appear to be from Canada or Panama or wherever, but if you're in business, this is hardly a viable option.. they'll find out you're really a US citizen) for me, this means finding a very trusted Canadian to "take over" for awhile, until I can collect enough material to prove myself worthy of Canadian citizenship.

From what I've studied, the problem is the lobbyist influences. Startups do NOT donate money to campaigns, most of them will never donate to campaigns because most start-ups fail. If you want to make it in the US, you have to have enough money to hire lobbyists that are more powerful than competitors lobbyists. It really is that simple.

For most of us, the plutocratic system of government is irrelevant, but if your small niche business threatens the established companies who are running the country, AND they notice you (or your industry), you can expect them to run you out.

Ultimately, we can look forward to these same lobbyists pushing OTHER countries around, much as the US already does for the oil lobby. It'll be interesting to hear them justify a war with Panama or Canada, it'd be nice if the citizens wised up to the game before then, but I'm not holding my breath.

Safe for web-based? (0)

reboot246 (623534) | more than 2 years ago | (#39085857)

The U.S. isn't safe for ANY kind of business. The government we have now is so anti-business, a person would be a fool to start one. They will either shut you down, tax you to death, or put so many nit-picking requirements on you that you'll have to go under.

It is all part of Heir Obama's plan (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39085891)

Destroy the US economy now and in the future, disarm us, but use our might to hand the entire Middle East to the Muslim fanatics. And he's carrying out his agenda swiftly.

Not just web businesses. (3, Insightful)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 2 years ago | (#39086047)

USA is very dangerous to start ANY business, not just a web business. With all of the taxes, regulations, inflation caused by counterfeiting operation at the Fed and the government banks. The confiscation of private property that was clearly displayed in GM and Chrysler case and just a couple of months ago with MF Global [slashdot.org] - where cooperation between financial institution (JP Morgan) and government agencies allowed for customer funds to be stolen, in fact gold bars with serial numbers assigned to specific holders of account at MF Global (which is basically an insurance company for farmers - future trading is used to insure against uncertainty of future crop prices) went "MISSING" and nobody is being held accountable for it and apparently everybody is aware that JP Morgan and the feds have agreed on something, which is pretty damning - the bankruptcy court was instructed to run the bankruptcy as if MF Global was an 'investment' company, which makes their counter-parties to be first in line to receive collateral, while actually MF Global wasn't an investment company, it was an insurance company, and under those conditions it would have been the CLIENTS who would be first in line to get their money out.

But this is just an example why it is dangerous to deal in USA now, other things are of-course all of the regulations, all of the executive branch departments acting as if they are the Congress and as if they can pass laws, the fact that US courts are on the side of the government in all of this.

Again, it's not just about web businesses. Don't forget, as Steve Jobs told Obama - those jobs, they are not coming back.

Re:Not just web businesses. (1)

MtViewGuy (197597) | more than 2 years ago | (#39086199)

This is why we need three things done to make the USA more business friendly:

1) Review EVERY business regulation "on the books" as US Federal law and see if any of them need to be phased out due to the law being obsolete or unneeded.

2) Drastically overhaul the income tax code to reduce yearly compliance costs and encourage way more savings and capital investment in the USA. I'd recommend going with the no-loophole 17% flat tax that Steve Forbes proposed back in 1996--a tax system if implemented would send the US economy into the stratosphere within 18 months because it would make the USA one of the world's most friendly places to do business from a tax regulation perspective.

3) Severely reign in Wall Street by tightening liquidity requirements for investments, increasing the minimum margin requirements for futures trading to 20%, re-impose the 1933 Glass-Steagall Act, and requiring the President, members of the Cabinet, members of Congress or any judge in the US Appeals Court system or the Supreme Court to put into a "blind and dumb" trust all stock and bond holdings or must sell them off. That way, Washington, DC is far less influenced by self interest of stock and bond holdings.

Who hosts Wikileaks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39086081)

Who hosts Wikileaks? It would seem to me they would be target #1 for the feds and so resistant to random (or malevolent) acts of bureaucracy. It's actually quite an endorsement.

Certainly the bitcoin exchanges (1)

beltsbear (2489652) | more than 2 years ago | (#39086363)

Two Bitcoin exchanges have cited or hinted at regulatory pressure as part of their reasons for shutting down. ExchangeBitcoins (exchb) was rumored to have been shut down due to government pressure though that is not their official statement. Tradehill http://www.businessweek.com/technology/bitcoin-exchange-shuttered-nerds-rattled-02172012.html [businessweek.com] While the primary exchange has avoided troubles so far as it is based in Japan. Right now mtgox.com does 15 million a month in volume of which it takes 1%. I think the US will be scaring all kinds of businesses away that would have generated additional economic activity. I suggest that MTGOX start using a non .com domin name......

Yes, US internet policies are keeping me away (2)

colordev (1764040) | more than 2 years ago | (#39086415)

I am facing this "problem" of soon having to choose if I will locate my new company avoiding USA or not. Business will be 100% legal, but the US web-policies appear very unfrindly. Recently I've been thinking (most positively) about using only EU investors, EU-site, EU-domain but it may be hard to avoid all e.g. Visa / Paypal / Mastercard connections to USA. Maybe it's worth it maybe not. But for me the news topic is true, The US Government is Scaring Web Businesses Out of the US - or at least it's doing it's best in keeping me away.

OPEN YOUR EYES (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39086505)

Memorable quotes for
Looker (1981)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082677/quotes [imdb.com] [imdb.com]

âoeJohn Reston: Television can control public opinion more effectively than armies of secret police, because television is entirely voluntary. The American government forces our children to attend school, but nobody forces them to watch T.V. Americans of all ages *submit* to television. Television is the American ideal. Persuasion without coercion. Nobody makes us watch. Who could have predicted that a *free* people would voluntarily spend one fifth of their lives sitting in front of a *box* with pictures? Fifteen years sitting in prison is punishment. But 15 years sitting in front of a television set is entertainment. And the average American now spends more than one and a half years of his life just watching television commercials. Fifty minutes, every day of his life, watching commercials. Now, thatâ(TM)s power. â

âoeThe United States has itâ(TM)s own propaganda, but itâ(TM)s very effective because people donâ(TM)t realize that itâ(TM)s propaganda. And itâ(TM)s subtle, but itâ(TM)s actually a much stronger propaganda machine than the Nazis had but itâ(TM)s funded in a different way. With the Nazis it was funded by the government, but in the United States, itâ(TM)s funded by corporations and corporations they only want things to happen that will make people want to buy stuff. So whatever that is, then that is considered okay and good, but that doesnâ(TM)t necessarily mean it really serves peopleâ(TM)s thinking â" it can stupify and make not very good things happen.â
â" Crispin Glover: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000417/bio [imdb.com] [imdb.com]

âoeWeâ(TM)ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.â â" William Casey, CIA Director

âoeItâ(TM)s only logical to assume that conspiracies are everywhere, because thatâ(TM)s what people do. They conspire. If you canâ(TM)t get the message, get the man.â â" Mel Gibson

[1967] Jim Garrison Interview âoeIn a very real and terrifying sense, our Government is the CIA and the Pentagon, with Congress reduced to a debating society. Of course, you canâ(TM)t spot this trend to fascism by casually looking around. You canâ(TM)t look for such familiar signs as the swastika, because they wonâ(TM)t be there. We wonâ(TM)t build Dachaus and Auschwitzes; the clever manipulation of the mass media is creating a concentration camp of the mind that promises to be far more effective in keeping the populace in line. Weâ(TM)re not going to wake up one morning and suddenly find ourselves in gray uniforms goose-stepping off to work. But this isnâ(TM)t the test. The test is: What happens to the individual who dissents? In Nazi Germany, he was physically destroyed; here, the process is more subtle, but the end results can be the same. Iâ(TM)ve learned enough about the machinations of the CIA in the past year to know that this is no longer the dreamworld America I once believed in. The imperatives of the population explosion, which almost inevitably will lessen our belief in the sanctity of the individual human life, combined with the awesome power of the CIA and the defense establishment, seem destined to seal the fate of the America I knew as a child and bring us into a new Orwellian world where the citizen exists for the state and where raw power justifies any and every immoral act. Iâ(TM)ve always had a kind of knee-jerk trust in my Governmentâ(TM)s basic integrity, whatever political blunders it may make. But Iâ(TM)ve come to realize that in Washington, deceiving and manipulating the public are viewed by some as the natural prerogatives of office. Huey Long once said, âoeFascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism.â Iâ(TM)m afraid, based on my own experience, that fascism will come to America in the name of national security.â

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