Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

The webOS Features Other OSes Should Steal

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the you-wouldn't-implement-a-car dept.

Operating Systems 142

New submitter egparedes points out a post dissecting webOS and highlighting the things it did right, in the hopes that developers for other mobile operating systems will use them as inspiration. Quoting: "webOS isn't quite dead yet. It's just being open-sourced, which, when it happens to commercial software, often turns out to be the digital equivalent of being reanimated as a walking corpse in a George Romero movie. ... Of course, it's not assured that this is the end of webOS. Maybe open-sourcing it will be the best thing that ever happened to webOS. But maybe it just means that HP doesn't care anymore, and that webOS won't receive much attention anymore. This would be unfortunate, because webOS is one of the few current mobile operating systems that are actually a joy to use. It's been hurt by HP's incompetent management, rather than any egregious faults of its own. The least we can do now is to keep its best ideas alive, even if webOS itself won't make it."

cancel ×

142 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Steal. (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39120181)

You can't fucking steal an idea. Stop purporting this nonsensical line that the intangible can be stolen. Fuck.

Re:Steal. (2)

ryanov (193048) | more than 2 years ago | (#39120193)

Yeah, because that was the most important point in this article.

Re:Steal. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39120241)

I thought the point was that open source used to be cancer, and now it's zombies.

On further thought, it's probably more like Frankenstein. Taking pieces from dead projects and stitching them together before attempting to reanimate.

Re:Steal. (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39120219)

You can't fucking steal an idea. Stop purporting this nonsensical line that the intangible can be stolen. Fuck.

Steve Jobs made a career of it.

(BTW, my CAPTCHA is leopard. What a coincidence)

Re:Steal. (2, Funny)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 2 years ago | (#39120447)

Steve Jobs made a career of it.

And Samsung read his book!

Re:Steal. (5, Funny)

dan828 (753380) | more than 2 years ago | (#39120743)

Sadly, the "they did it too!" defense was struck down by moms everywhere when their children reached the age of 3.

Re:Steal. (1, Interesting)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 2 years ago | (#39120875)

Actually the point is that if what they did really is truly bad, then everybody else has to be held to the same standard. Failure to do that is a symptom of being a Haterade addict.

Re:Steal. (4, Interesting)

mjwx (966435) | more than 2 years ago | (#39120923)

Steve Jobs made a career of it.

And Samsung read his book!

Except that they didn't.

Most of Samsung's ideas were built upon the ideas of Google (which is the point of Android).

The notion that Samsung copied Apple only exists in the minds of fanboys who've never touched a Samsung Galaxy phone or tablet.

Re:Steal. (-1, Troll)

Moridineas (213502) | more than 2 years ago | (#39120955)

Re:Steal. (5, Informative)

mjwx (966435) | more than 2 years ago | (#39121029)

Really?

Seen that photoshop before. The saddest thing about it is that it's a fake

Heres the real photo of the two [alluremedia.com.au] . You may notice the Galaxy II is larger, has the big words "samsung" written on it and a widget displaying the time and date. If you didn't notice them, you need your eyes examined.

Here is Samsung's official marketing on the S2 [google.com.au] Here's the comparison chart between the two [theunlockr.com]

Try linking to something other then CultOfMac. So nice troll, but it's nothing but a troll.

Sorry if reality doesn't fit in with your warped world view, but that's reality for you.

Re:Steal. (1)

justforgetme (1814588) | more than 2 years ago | (#39122135)

Heres the real photo of the two [alluremedia.com.au]

OMG OMG OMG!!!!
Both phones have a call button? On their front screen?!?!?!?

Re:Steal. (3, Interesting)

Your.Master (1088569) | more than 2 years ago | (#39121731)

The phone icons are quite similar. I'll grant you that.

The notebooks are quite similar, but inconclusive.

The photos apps both use yellow-leafed flowers. I'm undecided on that. I'd call it coincidence unless there's significant other evidence.

Post-its vs. paper pads aren't that similar.

The gears are clearly different. Gears are a standard icon and these look nothing alike.

The messaging apps are also completely different. I cannot imagine two recognizable "voice box" symbols that look less alike. Are you arguing that a voice box is not an obvious sigil for text messaging?

All in all, I don't see that comparison as being substantially different from this comparison: http://www.designbyinfinity.com/internet/680649f7.png [designbyinfinity.com] . In both cases, there might be a few superficial resemblances, but they really aren't that similar.

Re:Steal. (0, Troll)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 2 years ago | (#39120963)

The notion that Samsung copied Apple only exists in the minds of fanboys who've never touched a Samsung Galaxy phone or tablet.

Actually I own a Galaxy Tab 10.1, and yes they copy-catted the iPad to a stupidly obvious level.

Amusingly the people who try to argue with me on that are people who haven't held one and then the other. I wouldn't mind but Samsung's own lawyer couldn't distinguish between the two in front of a judge.

Re:Steal. (2, Interesting)

mjwx (966435) | more than 2 years ago | (#39121077)

Actually I own a Galaxy Tab 10.1, and yes they copy-catted the iPad to a stupidly obvious level.

You've never touched a Tab 10.1, that much is obvious by your complete lack of corroborating evidence.

How do I know, I actually own a Galaxy Tab 10.1, the application draw acts differently, it needs to be opened manually rather then being open all the time. IOS doesn't have widgets that can be moved on the home screen. Ipads dont have rotation lock like the Galaxy Tab. The Tab can actually multi-task. You can move directly back to an application you were previously using, that's what the little up arrow in the bottom bar is there for. If you've actually used one, you might have known that.

Well, it seems like there's a lot of copying going on there. The difference is certainly astounding. [theiloop.com]

Amusingly the people who try to argue with me on that are people who haven't held one and then the other.

It certainly is amusing isn't it.

Especially when I can call your extremely transparent lies out so easily.

So you've never used an iPad... (4, Insightful)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#39121227)

Ipads dont have rotation lock like the Galaxy Tab.

If you ever get a chance to use a real tablet, check the sides. That's where the iPad keeps the rotation lock. It'll probably be really easy for you to find as I'm sure Samsung just put it in exactly the same place.

Re:So you've never used an iPad... (1)

metacell (523607) | more than 2 years ago | (#39121943)

The Galaxy Tab 10.1 doesn't have a hardware rotation lock. It's a software option on the bottom right menu.

Not that it diminishes your point...

Re:So you've never used an iPad... (0)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#39122059)

Thanks for the correction, odd they did not choose to copy that aspect as I find it handy.

Re:So you've never used an iPad... (1)

stephanruby (542433) | more than 2 years ago | (#39122699)

Ipads dont have rotation lock like the Galaxy Tab.

If you ever get a chance to use a real tablet, check the sides. That's where the iPad keeps the rotation lock.

You mean a physical hardware rotation lock? I didn't realize that.

Another complaint that I've heard from iPad owners was that their rotation lock was only application-specific, not system-wide (on Android, it's system-wide which in hindsight would seem like the only natural way to do it). Were those people also only talking about their first generation iPads, and not the the second generation? Or may be, they were just idiots (since their complaints seemed to contradict your claim). That, I actually don't know.

It'll probably be really easy for you to find as I'm sure Samsung just put it in exactly the same place.

Only the Toshiba Android tablet has a physical hardware rotation lock (that I've seen, and no, I haven't been at the last CES, so there should be more by now). The Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 has its rotation lock in software accessible from the bottom right corner of its screen (like most of the Android tablets), and as I said it's system-wide. Personally, I would prefer having it as a hardware button like the Toshiba Android tablet did it (thought, I didn't care much for the rest of the Toshiba tablet).

Re:So you've never used an iPad... (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#39122725)

Were those people also only talking about their first generation iPads, and not the the second generation?

They've all had hardware rotation locks. Apple kind of fiddled with it at one point though (iOS5) and made it optional to have it be a silence switch instead, (you can toggle which behavior you prefer) which may have led some people to think it was not working.

iOS also has a software rotation lock (for iPad and iPhone) if you double tap the home button and slide the icon tray over.

The iPhone treats the switch as silence only, I don't think it has an option to treat it as a rotation lock the way the iPad does.

Re:So you've never used an iPad... (1)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 2 years ago | (#39123227)

The Lenovo K1 has a hardware "lock" slider button on one side. Have to admit I find it useless - not because I don't want it to work, I do, but because most apps just ignore it, which means switching it on actually makes the tablet less pleasant and consistant to work with, not more.

Re:Steal. (3, Informative)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 2 years ago | (#39121303)

You've never touched a Tab 10.1, that much is obvious by your complete lack of corroborating evidence.

Wrong. I'm looking at it right now, actually. Here's a fun little bit of trivia about the Tab: MAME will run on it, and it'll properly support the iCade! It'll ALMOST fit in it, although you've got to leave the flap on the top open since it's a little too big.

How do I know, I actually own a Galaxy Tab 10.1, the application draw acts differently...

Actually I was referring to the physical casing of it, i.e. the very thing the 'rounded-rectangle patent' case is all about. Coincidentally that's the bit Samsung's Lawyers couldn't discern, either, which I brought up in my last post. I find it unlikely that you're unaware of this case as it's been plastered around here for ages.

It certainly is amusing isn't it.

You made it even more so...

Ipads dont have rotation lock like the Galaxy Tab....

... see? Yes, they do, and the vanilla apps on the iPad support it better than the same apps on the Tab. I wouldn't mind much, but if you hold the Tab vertically it's a little too easy to hit the stupid sleep button by accident. Oh.. gee, I guess I wasn't lying about touching a Galaxy Tab. Now if we could just get you to touch and iPad... actually maybe you have and you just thought it was a Tab.

Re:Steal. (2)

slack_justyb (862874) | more than 2 years ago | (#39122153)

Okay I'll bite.

the very thing the 'rounded-rectangle patent' case is all about.

First off it's a design patent big difference from patent in the standard sense. Secondly, there so much prior art to rounded rectangle this patent has no choice but to be nuked. I have in my hands right now a cell phone circa 2003 that is rounded rectangular with just a screen and a slide out keyboard. Oh look, I also have here in my collection an LG Chocolate circa 2006. It's quite rounded rectangular. Oh look here is a credit card, it too is round rectangular. Oh look the formula for the area of a rounded rectangle is A = a * b + 2 * r *(a + b) + pi * r^2; I know this because here in this math book copyright 1976 is a rounded rectangle.

Apple wouldn't be the first to have a patent tossed out of court, because the notion of patenting a shape is ridiculous. Can we please move past the rounded rectangle? Apple wasn't the first to use the shape. Hell they weren't even the first to use the shape for a phone Hell phones weren't even the first ones to use it in electronic devices.

actually maybe you have and you just thought it was a Tab.

All you fancy whipper snappers and your phablets. You know how much I love plopping down $500 - $600 on a device and can't even compile a C program in a reasonable amount of time, on it. No you both have it wrong. Both iPhone and Samsung Galaxy Tab suck. I can buy a $500 laptop that smokes anything your phablets can do, hell smokes anything they can do and brews tea for me while playing a soothing classical waltz, tells me the weather in three different locations while typing a document, and compiling a kernel whist I sip said tea. Hell, can you even do SVG artwork on one of these damn things? Oh look I can for only $8.99 [apple.com] Oh look, I can do it on my $500 laptop for free. [inkscape.org]

Stupid phablets, stupid fanbois, mumble mumble, get off my damn lawn!

Re:Steal. (0)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 2 years ago | (#39122265)

Secondly, there so much prior art to rounded rectangle this patent has no choice but to be nuked. I have in my hands right now a cell phone circa 2003 that is rounded rectangular with just a screen and a slide out keyboard.

Oh goodie, one more person educated solely on sensationalist headlines.

Thanks Slashdot, good to know you're getting your money's worth from your ad revenue.

Re:Steal. (1)

slack_justyb (862874) | more than 2 years ago | (#39122407)

Oh goodie, one more person educated solely on sensationalist headlines.

So wait a second aren't you the guy that just said:

Actually I was referring to the physical casing of it, i.e. the very thing the 'rounded-rectangle patent' case is all about.

Care to do any backpedaling? <flamebait>Or are you just like most other Apple users, too stupid to have anything that actually works.</flamebait> I'll tell you what, I would love Apple to win or whatever and for 98% of the world to be stuck on an iPad or whatever they've come up with by then. I'm tired of retarded end-users who think they know a thing or two but in the end have about as much knowledge as this trashcan at the side of my desk. The more of them that move into the walled-in world of Apple, the less I have to deal with them.

By the way if you want to make assumptions on my education that's fine, Slashdot has been going down the tubes for quite some time now, however your assumption that Apple's iPad design is unique is laughable at the very least and definitely puts your knowledge of technology into question. For to say,

Actually I own a Galaxy Tab 10.1, and yes they copy-catted the iPad to a stupidly obvious level.

implies a belief in iPad being the original and the Galaxy Tab being the copy-cat, when neither made it to the mark first by a long shot.

However, it does not matter to me one bit. I wish for all the world to waste their money on these idiotic devices, I think what the world needs is fewer people with real computers in their hands, it seems to not have worked out well thus far to give every single man, woman, and child something that is actually useable as an intelligent device. Hell, I can tell you for sure that basically every CEO, CFO, and HR rep on this planet have absolutely no "good" reason to own any computing device, the fact they they carry around anywhere in the area of five to seven on their person, simply states that we are all doing ourselves a disservice on scales that are impossible to comprehend.

Of course that last part was most likely a waste of time on someone named MobileTatsu-NJG. Oh well, just chalk it up to more intellectual entropy.

Re:Steal. (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 2 years ago | (#39122461)

Without looking it up, tell me how many points Apple raised against Samsung in that case.

Re:Steal. (1)

slack_justyb (862874) | more than 2 years ago | (#39122497)

Without looking it up, tell me how many points Apple raised against Samsung in that case.

See there is your problem. What does it matter? You wouldn't be able to tell the difference between if I did look it up or not. You believe that there is some sort of real interaction to be had in computers. Please do us few that are left on this planet a favor and bury yourself in your gadgets and toys. Because, ultimately that is what they are to you, toys.

Re:Steal. (0)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 2 years ago | (#39122549)

Heh. What does it matter. Well, if you had read anything about it, you'd know why it matters and you would have saved yourself all that typing. I guess fanboi is french for 'read the article'.

Re:Steal. (0)

slack_justyb (862874) | more than 2 years ago | (#39122605)

you'd know why it matters and you would have saved yourself all that typing.

Woosh! Point was totally missed and I am totally not surprised by that outcome. It must be a chore to talk to you in person, what with the inability to discern an idea when it is blatantly presented to you. Are you sure you speak English or are you processing this all through an online translator? At least then you may have had a reason for totally missing what I was saying. No I take that back, there isn't a reason. You simply confound all that is logic and bring new depths to what being oblivious to patently obvious cues to, hopefully and uselessly, stoke whatever intellect that you may have had, which granted at this point seems to be on a scale the rivals the lightest particles in the universe.

I think I shall return to the comfort of my coffee here and simply regard this as yet another attempt to foray into the ever decaying world of intelligent thought. Thank you for providing me with evidence that we still haven't slowed down on the production of ignorance.

Re:Steal. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39121693)

>> Ipads dont have rotation lock like the Galaxy Tab.

So funny when you're being a condescending ass and then can't even get your facts straight. Dumbass.

>> The Tab can actually multi-task

Hurrrr.. Again you have no idea what you're talking about. You can argue semantics, but the iPad can and does multitask.

>> You can move directly back to an application you were previously using

Keep digging that hole. Multitasking gestures on the iPad does exactly that.

Re:Steal. (1)

justforgetme (1814588) | more than 2 years ago | (#39122155)

RTFA, no OS does multitasking better than webOS.
Actually with the way apple dealt with it I am inclined to call it NULLtitaskink

Re:Steal. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39122335)

Show us the Google tablet that looks like an iPad and predates it. My fanboy memory blocked it out.

Re:Steal. (0)

GmExtremacy (2579091) | more than 2 years ago | (#39120353)

I don't know about that, man. How do you know the government hasn't secretly developed technology to rip ideas out of someone's head and give it to themselves?

That said, the use of that word isn't quite as confusing when you're not using it to reference some sort of crime (like copyright infringement is in certain places).

Re:Steal. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39120597)

>You can't fucking steal an idea. Stop purporting this nonsensical line that the intangible can be stolen. Fuck.

Ideas can be stolen as evolution is a religion.

If you can't attack something you just attach something unrelated to it to make it easier to hit.

Re:Steal. (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 2 years ago | (#39120647)

"You can't fucking steal an idea. Stop purporting this nonsensical line that the intangible can be stolen. Fuck." - MobileTatsu-NJG

Re:Steal. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39120775)

You can't fucking steal an idea. Stop purporting this nonsensical line that the intangible can be stolen. Fuck.

Hey, I was going to post that! You stole my mind-fruit! Give it back! GIVE IT BACK!

Re:Steal. (1)

Cajun Hell (725246) | more than 2 years ago | (#39121331)

You can't fucking steal an idea.

No, you can't steal an idea, because after I stole that idea from you, you no longer had the ability to steal ideas. I, on the other hand, protect my idea to steal ideas, so no one will never steal it from me.

I'll sell it back to you for $595, though. (But can you be sure you're really getting my idea, and not an unauthorized copy?)

Long Live the Zombie Slave! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39120197)

All OSes must perish by its deadly touch and decayed teeth!

Best idea? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39120255)

The $99 pricetag.

Must be honest (4, Insightful)

jaymzter (452402) | more than 2 years ago | (#39120257)

I've used iOS for years, and have dabbled with Android. webOS beats them both hands down (for me!). iOS isn't so bad to run, but only if I want to run the way Apple decided was best, so it's a pain to get it the way *I* want it, in typical Linux user fashion. Android is just a confusing mess of non-intuitive menus and settings.

webOS just _gets out of the way_! It's a doggone shame it doesn't seem to be going anywhere, because there's no way I'd trade my Touchpad for an iOS or Android tablet.

Re:Must be honest (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39120453)

As far as usability, I've had no issues with ICS on the Touchpad. If anything, Apps are more usable, despite being less similar to one another. Touchpad apps are noticeably slower, and use that funky draggable panel thing that makes no sense whatsoever. I also appreciate the launcher, which seems a lot easier to use than webOS' app drawer.

Re:Must be honest (5, Insightful)

justforgetme (1814588) | more than 2 years ago | (#39122175)

Running android on the touchpad is not the point. the point is running webOS on other HW.

Re:Must be honest (1)

ThePeices (635180) | more than 2 years ago | (#39120683)

What I love about Android and OSS in general is that we are free to change it as we see fit. If somebody comes up with a fresh new idea of how to make something as complex as a smartphone OS easy and intuitive to use, then there is nothing stopping them making it. Just keep well away from other companies patents.

Modify iOS? Hell no, Apple Legal would utterly destroy you.

Re:Must be honest (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39120749)

Modify iOS? Hell no, Apple Legal would utterly destroy you.

Except, of course, that modifications happen all the time in the jailbreak/Cydia community:

http://www.jailbreaknation.com/top-ios-5-winterboard-themes-inpulse-legacy-absolution
http://www.iphoneheat.com/category/iphone-themes/
http://gizmodo.com/5817192/the-must-have-jailbreak-apps

But I'm sure you're right and Apple's lawyers are going to get right on top of this.

Re:Must be honest (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39120881)

Uh, themes? Yay? You Android lets you do a whole hell of a lot more than just changing a few resource files around, right?

All of Cydia is a system modification warehouse (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#39121191)

You Android lets you do a whole hell of a lot more than just changing a few resource files around, right?

I guess you are not aware of the purpose of Cydia which is hacking any application at any level, including the system, Lots of mods go far beyond mere themes.

A Jailbroken iOS device is more hackable than Android because it's more practical to make small modifications to any application.

Re:All of Cydia is a system modification warehouse (1, Redundant)

oakgrove (845019) | more than 2 years ago | (#39121451)

Like what for example? Without even jail breaking Android, I can take any apk apart, make changes and put it back together. And the Android system itself is open source so I can root my device, download the source code to the operating system and make any changes I want. I have a jail broken iPad and several rooted Android devices. Yeah I can make a few changes to the iPad here and there like replacing spring board and enabling the installation of unsigned apps. Both capabilities of which android has out of the box btw. But I can't even get a decent python install on it. What's available sucks. With Android, I can chroot an entire GNU/Linux install like Debian on it. I'm sure there are a lot of really cool superficial mods that can be done with iOS but can it be run on a wristwatch [turnoversinc.com] ?

Re:All of Cydia is a system modification warehouse (0)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#39121861)

Without even jail breaking Android, I can take any apk apart, make changes and put it back together.

How would you change a single class?

Cydia makes code injection trivial for any class in an application - without having to take apart anything. If all you want to do is change an icon why are you blathering on about how jailbreaking is only themes?

And the Android system itself is open source so I can root my device, download the source code to the operating system and make any changes I want.

I don't have to do any of that, I can simply modify a system class at one point.

That's why it's better for hacking, much less effort for the same level of system or application modification (and I am doubtful how easily you can change the code of any arbitrary application).

can it be run on a wristwatch?

I don't know but I do know you can use your phone as a workbench or serving platter at a party. How handy.

Re:All of Cydia is a system modification warehouse (2)

oakgrove (845019) | more than 2 years ago | (#39122553)

How would you change a single class?

To do what exactly. "Changing a class" is just a means to an an end. What are you trying to accomplish?

Cydia makes code injection trivial for any class in an application - without having to take apart anything

You are so blinded by fanaticism that you can't see something so simple as the fact that a) when an app is taken apart on android and changes to it are made then its put back together you aren't relying on something so crude as injecting code at run time. You now have a new application that can be installed on any device in the futere rooted or not and changes persist.

f all you want to do is change an icon why are you blathering on about how jailbreaking is only themes?

You're inventing a narrative as I said no such thing.

I don't have to do any of that, I can simply modify a system class at one point.

You are talking about 2 completely different things. Also, you are getting subjective and pretending like your opinion carries some special weight. It doesn't. You're just another loudmouth fan boy who thinks his way is best.

That's why it's better for hacking, much less effort for the same level of system or application modification

You're delusional if you think changing classes at run time is easier or as exhaustive as a complete recompile of a binary. If what you are saying is right we'd all just do it your way when writing applications. I mean fuck writing anything from scratch I'll just change a class on $EXISTING_APP. Laughable.

an it be run on a wristwatch?

I don't know but I do know you can use your phone as a workbench or serving platter at a party. How handy.

Your attempt at a stupid snark answer doesn't conceal that you've reached a fundamental limit to your "change classes" approach. I have the source code therefore Android runs on my watch if I want it to. And it does. How many classes would you have to change to run iOS on new hardware? That's what I thought.

Re:All of Cydia is a system modification warehouse (2)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#39122709)

To do what exactly. "Changing a class" is just a means to an an end. What are you trying to accomplish?

Anything I want.

You are so blinded by fanaticism that you can't see something so simple as the fact that a) when an app is taken apart on android and changes to it are made then its put back together you aren't relying on something so crude as injecting code at run time.

I was a Java programmer for well over a decade.

Please do go on with exact technical details on how you change or add code to that package you tore apart.

You're delusional if you think changing classes at run time is easier or as exhaustive as a complete recompile of a binary.

And you are ignorant if you cannot see how much more easy and powerful that technique is. I don't "tear apart" or replace a binary, I just say "here's my code to add to this and that class for this application and replace this method call"

I mean fuck writing anything from scratch I'll just change a class on $EXISTING_APP

You laugh but that is mostly better. I can ALSO write any app from scratch, but it's nice a lot of times to take some application that you really like and add enhancements. The fact you cannot see that marks you as a simpleton.

Your attempt at a stupid snark answer doesn't conceal that you've reached a fundamental limit to your "change classes" approach. I have the source code therefore Android runs on my watch if I want it to.

Your failed attempt at a reply ignores the fact your powers end at the OS (the only thing for which you have source), whereas in a jalbroken iOS device the options for change are boundless and encompass any third party apps which I can change just as easily as the OS and in a simpler way (since I don't have to figure out how to compile a whole system or application, I just add a class or two of new code).

I'll let you have the last response since I don't intend to read anymore of your technically ignorant blatherings going forward, keep digging that hole though if you wish.

Re:Must be honest (1)

oakgrove (845019) | more than 2 years ago | (#39121089)

Cute. How's this [turnoversinc.com] for a modification?

Re:Must be honest (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39121057)

Android is just a confusing mess of non-intuitive menus and settings.

If you're that much of an idiot that you don't have sense enough to navigate a Galaxy Nexus you probably shouldn't be bragging about it. But then again maybe you're one of those "I just don't get computers tee hee" jokes.

Re:Must be honest (1)

uradu (10768) | more than 2 years ago | (#39121277)

You're implying that you're a Linux user but find Android "a confusing mess"? LOL!!! Never mind that in a way you can think of Android as a window manager on top of Linux, but its GUI and settings system are more consistent than most WMs I've seen on Linux. For someone who supposedly likes Linux-like flexibility to prefer anything but Android out of those three is sheer nonsense.

Re:Must be honest (1)

wvmarle (1070040) | more than 2 years ago | (#39121483)

I've heard about it before.

May be interesting to play with.

But how can I play with it? It's a mobile OS, so can't install it on a normal PC (or at least: it won't be able to shine - no touch screen for starters). Can it be installed on an Android-based phone, maybe? I'm at the moment considering to replace my phone (the "back" button is broken - will have to root it to reassign the "search" button as "back" button at least). But maybe can try to install WebOS on it.

Re:Must be honest (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39122325)

Oh dear. The word "intuitive" raises its ugly head again. What exactly does this word mean? I hear people use it when they can't work out how to use a piece of software within 0.1 nanoseconds. I think it is a synonym for "I can't be bothered to learn".

Settings on Android aren't that confusing - they're in the Settings area. Shock horror!

Also, menus appear when you press the menu button. Outrageous!

However, I do grant that many Android apps have shoddy UI designs for some reason. This is the same as the army of users who wrote apps in VB on Windows who didn't know how to align controls, set a minimum size for windows or any of these other things. Some people just appear to be blind to these sorts of things, hence the app looks RUBBISH.

Even worse, on Android 3, half the apps haven't bothered adding a new UI XML file to actually work for the Android 3 platform, nor do they bother using the new Fragments UI so the apps scale BADLY.

But as for your argument that Android is a confusing mess, I disagree.

All HPs fault? Really? (4, Insightful)

rgbrenner (317308) | more than 2 years ago | (#39120291)

It's been hurt by HP's incompetent management, rather than any egregious faults of its own.

Palm had it for a whole year and a half before HP.. they released Palm Pre and Palm Pixi using it -- both phones DOA. The Palm Pre had 0.2% market share after nearly a year on the market (source [gigaom.com] ).

HP didn't do it any favors.. but it's hard to say everyone would have loved WebOS if it wasn't for HP. No one wanted it from the very beginning.

Not entirely true. (4, Interesting)

brennanw (5761) | more than 2 years ago | (#39120367)

There was a waiting list for the original phones when they first came out and they sold out quickly. And WebOS was fantastic. But...

  - the phones themselves had battery problems (if you slid the phone closed too quickly the phone would job the battery out and the phone would cut off)
  - as cool as the phone was, it was too damn small. Slab phones were becoming the preferred interface for smartphones.
  - as cool as the OS was, the user base wanted it built on, with extra features added, and Palm decided for whatever reason that it was going to focus on incremental things instead of sweeping new feature sets.
  - battery life was not good. Seriously. It was freaking horrible. Worse than your standard android phone.

All these things worked against it, plus Sprint decided it was more in love with HTC, so Palm didn't get the kind of backing it was hoping for. But Palm did fumble a few times before HP took it over, so you're right that HP can't shoulder all the blame.

Re:Not entirely true. (3, Interesting)

WhoBeDaPlaya (984958) | more than 2 years ago | (#39120723)

I don't really know what all the complaints about the webOS Palm phones are about. Paid $30 for an unlocked GSM Palm Pixi Plus and it works swimmingly.

Re:Not entirely true. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39122847)

I still have my pre and still use it every day, never ever had the battery come loose, and it's the first i've heard of that one!

Slab phones are horrible :p

The battery life is, in all honesty, quite variable, it depends what you use, if you have the browser/email going all the time then you can kiss it goodbye, if however you don't you'll get 24+ hours on a charge which isn't bad for a smart phone, also one thing that can help a lot, and actually ties in with your point about the user base, which has supported the webos devices quite activley, is to change the kernel cpu govenor, mine for example runs faster than stock when the screen is on but throttles down to 250mhz when it's off which massivley improves battery life!

Re:All HPs fault? Really? (1)

oneiros27 (46144) | more than 2 years ago | (#39120885)

I wouldn't say DOA ...

But WTF was up with the girl in that commercial?

They could've just shown multi tasking ... (while you were making a call, even!), and they'd have been ahead of the iPhone at the time.

Instead, we got a horrible ad campaign, a pretty lack-luster push from Sprint (which might've been from Palm giving the 'Pre+' to Verizon, I think it was, with 2x the RAM).

I was *really* hoping for the Pre 3, as I've been on an original Pre for 2+ years, and I almost bought a UK phone and was considering switching providers (mind you, I've been a Sprint user for ~14 years ... back in the 'Sprint PCS' days) ... but then the Google Maps incident happened, and I'm not so sure if I want to stick with an HP phone.

Re:All HPs fault? Really? (1)

interval1066 (668936) | more than 2 years ago | (#39121145)

The Pre had a huge (well, fairly huge) press thing when it came out, and most everyone in the media who had reviewed that I had read/heard said it was a pretty great OS. I still remember the tv ads with that beautiful ginger model caressing the phone. So I d/l'd the sdk and took a quick look, and I liked what I saw. But pretty shortly after HP bought Palm and then went into schizo mode. I think the only real problem was a lot of people complained the Pre seemed slow. Run WebOS on a faster proc and I think you'd have something there. The API and internals really did make a lot of sense, from what I saw of them.

WebOS is quite nice actually (5, Interesting)

ranpel (1255408) | more than 2 years ago | (#39120383)

That's right, I said it.

No complaints apart from hardware and the lack of a tide app.

Contrary to popular spouting off a smartphone doesn't need the Internet except when you need the Internet. How you choose to draw that line should be your choice, not your phone's.

There's no such thing as "rooting". Got root.

Tweaking the thing can bring easy and quick rewards with a tiny bit of css and a tiny bit of html.

I didn't get the fire sale pad but not for the lack of trying.

I had an ipad once - it was a gift - it wanted iTunes on my computer - then it wanted the correct version of iTunes - then it wanted an OSX upgrade - then I lost interest - I traded it for a new suspension kit for my ride. Couldn't be happier. iWhat? Nothing.

What was I ... right, I hope that WebOS finds itself a firm footing somewhere, truly I do.

Re:WebOS is quite nice actually (4, Insightful)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#39120433)

I totally agree with you on WebOS. I really liked it and at first thought it would be a stiff competitor to iOS. Sadly too late did I realize "Stiff" meant dead.

However on iOS, they have solved the problem you mentioned - you can buy an iOS device now and never have it touch a computer. Even backups are done on iCloud. Far better for all.

Re:WebOS is quite nice actually (1)

Sigg3.net (886486) | more than 2 years ago | (#39123079)

iCloud is the one ring to rule them all.

Seriously, Apple and privacy are different solar systems. Even if you like Apple, you shouldn't have to trust them, and you shouldn't trust them.

Re:WebOS is quite nice actually (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | more than 2 years ago | (#39123341)

However on iOS, they have solved the problem you mentioned - you can buy an iOS device now and never have it touch a computer.

But then how do you get stuff from your computer to the iOS device? Uploading all my personal suff to the cloud doesn't sound much better than installing iTunes, and it's hardly as easy as just copying the damn files to a USB device like most phones/tablets.

Android devices can connect via wifi and Samba shares, is that available for iOS?

...and so is BB 10 since yesterday (1)

Kupfernigk (1190345) | more than 2 years ago | (#39122101)

Many of the system concepts of webOS were launched by Blackberry yesterday. I actually keep a Pre2 charged in my bag (and turn it on to sync and update periodically) simply because I like it so much, and if my company BB ever gives up the ghost, I have a backup while it is replaced. But the release of rev. 2 for the Playbook and the tight integration with the phone (which is where HP were going with the Pre3 and the Touchpad) is now impressive. The ability to use the phone as a remote control for the PB removes the need for a laptop for almost all presentations, as is the ability to open remote documents. The reverse process (at a desk, use the tablet as the messaging interface for the phone, providing a bigger keyboard and easier to read screen) shows that BB actually think about people over 30. The "swipe" system is actually slightly better than webOS (the off screen area being on all 4 sides, not just one).

So: my conclusion is that since yesterday someone is making use of the best concepts of webOS. Perhaps unexpectedly, it's RIM.

I love my HP Touchpad (1)

hemp (36945) | more than 2 years ago | (#39120423)

It even runs flash.

Re:I love my HP Touchpad (1)

gmhowell (26755) | more than 2 years ago | (#39122205)

Proof that you've been smoking your namesake rather than making clothing out of it.

I'd comment but... (1)

poena.dare (306891) | more than 2 years ago | (#39120461)

...this webOS browser is like slow burning syphilis. The only, and I mean only, thing that's right here is the $99 price tag.

YMMV for phones, sure. But for a tablet webOS is like a delicious cake made without leavening.

Re:I'd comment but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39120619)

There is a better browser that should be available soon for the Touchpad:
http://www.webosnation.com/webos-internals-working-hp-getting-isis-browser-and-qtwebkit-current-devices

Re:I'd comment but... (1)

Pitr (33016) | more than 2 years ago | (#39120665)

Really? 'cause mine's just fine, in WebOS or android. Even runs complex flash stuff respectably (as in better than some not-too-old desktops). Maybe it just seems like it's taking forever because of your slow burning syphilis, but I have no basis for comparison.

Re:I'd comment but... (1)

gmhowell (26755) | more than 2 years ago | (#39122217)

What bullshit. How would a slashdot virgin catch syphilis to know what it feels like?

When Palm shot themselves in their foot. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39120559)

I was a long time Palm user, but one thing that I noticed that no one talks about, is when and how it shot itself in the foot.

I've narrowed it down to the day that they no longer offered FREE O/S upgrades.

Previously, Palm had advertised that they would always offer the newest O/S versions for free. Life was good. You knew that if they improved something, you could go online and download. But you knew there would be a time that the newest version wouldn't run on you device. It wasn't an issue, because you knew by then, you would have worn out whatever device you had and it would be time to buy a new one.

But NOOOOooooooo. Palm screwed themselves when they changed their story, and started charging for every major O/S update. That's when myself, and many people I knew dropped Palm (well, only after their devices finally died. I held out with my Palm V for MANY years, but it finally ran out it's magic smoke one day).

"Other OSes" (4, Interesting)

gmuslera (3436) | more than 2 years ago | (#39120639)

He seem to never heard of Maemo or the N900. If well not successful (for some values of successful, at least) had a lot of ideas other OSes should copy. In front of Android i felt crippled after more than a year with Maemo, mainly because how natural was for me to be really running several applications at once, even with that hardware. Maemo development diverted to Meego, that ended losing ground by the 2 companies backing it, and now could be in the horizon Tizen, Meltemi or whatever ends being the flavor of the semester.

WebOS is good anyway, even when the environment seemed to be with less community push than Maemo. A lot of its features, joined with maemo/meego/whatever ones, could make an interesting portable device OS. But the handset makers and carriers had already picked their alternatives, and there is little room for others (specially, without big enough backers), what is a shame,

Return of the Desktop (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39120645)

After I got over the paragraph about how certainly things "constantly happen" to the poor guy who deletes emails right before replying to them, I calmed down and read. And it turns out webOS really did invent something: the uninvented the crippled "it's not a desktop" desktop. It really looks like they got over some of the stupid bullshit that makes phones/tablets suck so much. Look at the features this guy is excited about.

The uninvented getting rid of windows. That's what the cards and screens and task-switching and (part of) the notifications points are about. When you have windows, all the problems that arise from taking away windows, go away.

The uninvented not-using-filesystems. (Drastically oversimplifying) This guy mounts whatever network filesystems he wants to, and the apps can save to and load from them.

They didn't uninvent not-having-a-keyboard or uninvent counter-productive auto-correction, but the webOS team tried the hardest of all, to have a keyboard despite the lack of having a keyboard, and to make autocorrection the least destructive to entering what you want. Of course, it "works best with a hardware keyboard" (that's a verbatim quota from TFA).

If this sounds mocking, I don't mean it that way (at least not completely -- the TFA's style makes it hard to not mock). This is serious. It sounds like webOS is the least phone/tablet-like phone/tablet OS, which really is why it sucks the least -- it has thrown away the fewest proven ideas replacing them with Jobsian reality distortion.

Cards & Multitasking (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39120661)

Hands down BEST WebOS feature which absolutely MUST be ported to all other mobile OS's = Card style app MULTI-TASKING, with wipe to close. After using WebOS for 10 minutes, that's the absolute biggest pain in the ass you recognize that exists with every mobile phone OS. Why is task management such a god damn process (no pun) for the competition? Why do I need to start another app just to kill something?

Card style app management is just so intuitive, all the way down to the gestures in controlling them.

Palm sucked at some things for sure... but when that company got something right, they nailed it.

Re:Cards & Multitasking (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39121237)

Android ICS has that, at least CM9 does, by default.

not the same (got CM9 on my touchpad) (3, Informative)

Chirs (87576) | more than 2 years ago | (#39121561)

WebOS has the ability to stack and organize cards. CM9 has the "recently used" apps list that you can swipe away, but as far as I know that's all you can do with them. On WebOS you can get to the task cards by swiping up from the bottom bezel anywhere along the bottom. With CM9 you have to hit a specific button.

If I could have android apps on WebOS, I'd be a happy man.

Re:not the same (got CM9 on my touchpad) (1)

thegarbz (1787294) | more than 2 years ago | (#39122837)

It's more than a recently used app list. It's an interface to force close running apps or apps with saved states. It is an excellent interface for multitasking once you figure out how to use it.

I agree that it could do with a "sorting" system of sorts, but for a phone anyway it's not really needed as the little memory most phones have causes Android to flush running apps that haven't been touched in a while.

Re:not the same (got CM9 on my touchpad) (1)

lordbah (2498352) | more than 2 years ago | (#39123329)

I'm one of those who moved from a webOs phone to an Android phone to get better hardware. One of the things which gets me about Android is that when I look at the recent apps list, *it doesn't tell me which apps are actually running*. Anything in the list might still be running, or it might not. It might be chewing CPU cycles, or it might not. It might be using data bandwidth, or it might not. Advantage: cards. The set of apps in the recent apps list may include a few apps I am presently switching between to accomplish some set of tasks and may also include other apps I have recently run as a one-off. Having the one-offs there is a slight dilution of my focus. I can swipe them off of the list. But if I've already exited the app from its menu, then also having to swipe it away here is unnecessary extra effort. Advantage: cards.

Re:Cards & Multitasking (1)

TigerTime (626140) | more than 2 years ago | (#39121625)

Nails on a chalkboard when using iPhone or Android after i was with my Palm Pre for 2 years. I have an Android device now, and the fact that you have to HOLD down a button for any amount of time to switch between apps is insanity. I want to quick-click and flip. I used to be able to flip between apps/screens within half a second. Those days of glorious UI design are done I'm afraid.

Not to mention that neither Android or iOS were TRUE multi-tasking like webOS, where I could have multiple apps open and running at the same time, and I mean RUNNING, not this "saved session state" crap!

Re:Cards & Multitasking (1)

linhux (104645) | more than 2 years ago | (#39122047)

Check out Nokia N9, it wins this game hands down.

Re:Cards & Multitasking (1)

Max Littlemore (1001285) | more than 2 years ago | (#39122459)

+1 Agree wholeheartedly. Disclaimer: I have never used webOS - flame me if you will.

From my experience, Android multitasking sucks when it comes to switching tasks, iOS doesn't rate at all, Maemo was good compared to both of those but from what I have seen of how webOS handles it, I would gladly have that on my phone. Shame their promotion wasn't a bit better, I would have bought.

Re:Cards & Multitasking (1)

Provocateur (133110) | more than 2 years ago | (#39122775)

I found a video on youtube after searching for webos multitasking. It was the one where some guy named Dieter was demonstrating how he would use or open about a dozen apps so that he wouldn't have to use two fingers later.

Though I might not get that busy, it was very impressive They are worth getting excited about, as someone above noted. Those guys at Unity better watch it if they want to get a leg up.

Rambling Blog (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39120679)

best avoided.

I miss the card metaphor (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39120695)

webOS has an outstanding UX, especially in the area of multitasking management. The card metaphor is the thing I really miss about my Pre (among many other things that I don't -- poor hardware and unoptimized software).

So Basically turn IOS int ICS? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39120837)

Just about all of the features of webOS are available in Icecream sandwich...

Re:So Basically turn IOS int ICS? (2)

phoebus1553 (522577) | more than 2 years ago | (#39121001)

Just about all of the features of webOS are available in Icecream sandwich...

I have to agree there. Almost every point he made made me say "but my Xoom does exactly that." Granted there are like a total of 3 ICS devices in the wild right now, and the number of old devices that will get it is a mystery, you CAN have those features he desires. It's almost as if he didn't realize that there was another option to iOS, webOS and... Windows Phone 7(and the future 8)? Seriously, how did Windows even make the list??

Re:So Basically turn IOS int ICS? (1)

oakgrove (845019) | more than 2 years ago | (#39121143)

Yeah , reading his article on my galaxy nexus I must admit his criticisms strike me as a bit...quaint.

lots of little issues. (Have ICS on my touchpad) (1)

Chirs (87576) | more than 2 years ago | (#39121655)

ICS has small cards for running apps, but you can't move them around, stack them, etc.

I have yet to find a decent keyboard layout for ICS. I want the numbers and common punctuation available without having to drop into a second layer.

Changing brightness on stock CM9 is two taps, a swipe up, and a swipe to adjust the brightness. On WebOS it's a tap and a swipe. There's lot's of room on the screen, CM9 could easily display all the options but they chose not to.

On stock CM9 there's no quick way to mute it. On WebOS it's two taps.

WebOS sucked (0)

ElitistWhiner (79961) | more than 2 years ago | (#39121041)

...CheapCharlie plastic hardware made it feel cheesy in your hands. FAIL

Document Management (4, Interesting)

zbobet2012 (1025836) | more than 2 years ago | (#39121127)

Document management on iOS is a mess. Every application implements its own scheme.

This is probably one of the best notes he makes. While hiding document management from the user initially may simplify things, the reality is that every single user needs sophisticated document management in the long run. iOS's biggest mistake was here; simpler document management should equate to more elegant, more usable document management, not more naieve management.

Its saddening to me today that Windows 7 search / OSX's Spotlight still don't meet the level of sophistication that zsh's globbing syntax does. Where are the document systems that automatically cross reference, sort by category etc? The filesystem on my PC is less sophisticated than google search by orders of magnitude, and slower too. Whats worse is that the iOS act of simply removing it from the users view is trying to creep back into the PC world.

all these comments (2)

alienzed (732782) | more than 2 years ago | (#39121315)

and not a single feature described. *sigh*

As an iPhone 4S user (3, Interesting)

localman (111171) | more than 2 years ago | (#39121317)

I have to admit some of this stuff had me absolutely drooling - particularly the app and multi-window management. Damn - it's much better than what Apple is doing right now.

They should absolutely use some of these ideas. Unfortunately I'm afraid Apple wouldn't even look at this stuff. They've got the NIH mentality bad.

Re:As an iPhone 4S user (1)

narcc (412956) | more than 2 years ago | (#39121553)

particularly the app and multi-window management

The BlackBerry PlayBook does this, and does it well.

Re:As an iPhone 4S user (2)

marsu_k (701360) | more than 2 years ago | (#39121611)

Oh they'll get around eventually. Notifications in iOS 5, for example, could be said to be heavily influenced by another mobile OS. But when Apple finally apes those things, you can bet they'll be revolutionary and magical.

You want WebOS? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39121343)

Shut your cakeholes and get a Playbook then.

If you could stop your self-righteous internal diatribes that spew themselves onto the web for 60 seconds you might actually find what you were looking for.

Edit: The captcha for this post was 'contempt'

Re:You want WebOS? (1)

narcc (412956) | more than 2 years ago | (#39121545)

Yeah, the PlayBook already "stole" a ton of the really great ideas from WebOS. The corner of the screen even "glows red" with new notifications.

It's no secret that those ideas contribute greatly to the fantastic UI that the PlayBook is famous for. Add QNX, solid hardware, and the great new features of OS2, and you'd be hard-pressed to find a better tablet on the market.

Of course, RIM makes the PlayBook so in Slashdot land that makes it automatically useless. It totally sucks having the best HTML5 support [html5test.com] along with WebGL and desktop quality Flash in my lightning-fast browser. It's terrible to have real-time multitasking and an UI that let's the user take advantage of it.

Yes... (1)

Kupfernigk (1190345) | more than 2 years ago | (#39122139)

and, as I note above, the tight phone integration that was also a feature of the webOS/Touchpad concept.

Apps in HTML and Javascript = BAD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39122371)

I looked at the API when the Palm Pre came out. Admittedly, I did not look in that much detail.

But an API that forced me to write in Javascript on a phone seemed a bad idea, or a way to create simple dummy apps. Compared to Android development, this seemed stupid.

Obvious comment... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39123283)

Is there something new in this assertion?
Every modern OS has something that should be copied and integrated by the other ones.
This is called "digital evolution".

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?