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Why Canada Does Not Belong On the US Piracy Watchlist

timothy posted about 2 years ago | from the they've-already-boarded-just-look-at-a-map dept.

Canada 123

An anonymous reader writes "Each year, the U.S. government places Canada on its piracy watch list, claiming that it is a pirate country similar to China or Russia. This year, Professor Michael Geist and Public Knowledge teamed up to respond to myths about Canadian copyright law with a submission to the USTR focusing on how Canadian law provides adequate and effective protection, how enforcement is stronger than often claimed, why Canada is not a piracy haven, and why Bill C-11 does not harm the interests of rights holders (critics of Bill C-11 digital lock rules will likely think this is self-evident)."

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Conservatives to bring law in line with the U.S. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39136161)

The new Majority Conservative government is now bringing in laws to make Canadian laws in like with the U.S.- no need to worry...

Re:Conservatives to bring law in line with the U.S (3, Insightful)

Mashiki (184564) | about 2 years ago | (#39137105)

Someone forgetting that it was the liberals who brought us up to bring the law into line in the first place? Besides, I'd have thought that you'd have figured something out. That even with enough outcry the government still listens to the people up here. Otherwise C30 wouldn't be open for discussion being modified, we wouldn't have scrapped the long gun registry. And we sure wouldn't be looking at scrapping S.13 from the HRC(the one that prohibits free speech).

Re:Conservatives to bring law in line with the U.S (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | about 2 years ago | (#39137673)

Silly title. Of course Canada belongs on a watch list. Any nation that doesn't bow down to the will of Corporate America belongs on the watch lists. If you don't want to be on the watch lists, then get on our knees, and start licking our boots. What's that? You say real men and women don't lick boots? Well - we have a few more watch lists to have you listed to!

Re:Conservatives to bring law in line with the U.S (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39139393)

then get on our knees, and start licking our boots

And how, exactly, does that work?

Re:Conservatives to bring law in line with the U.S (3, Insightful)

ToadProphet (1148333) | about 2 years ago | (#39138287)

That even with enough outcry the government still listens to the people up here. Otherwise C30 wouldn't be open for discussion being modified, we wouldn't have scrapped the long gun registry. And we sure wouldn't be looking at scrapping S.13 from the HRC(the one that prohibits free speech).

I believe you mean 'selectively listens to the people up here'. The LGR is a good example - I was vehemently opposed to that massive money pit but polls put support for it at 2/3rds and greater. Scrapping the S.13 was a private members bill put forth by a Liberal. And let's let the dust settle on C30 before declaring victory - the Cons aren't at all the libertarian leaning party many make them out to be.

Re:Conservatives to bring law in line with the U.S (4, Interesting)

quacking duck (607555) | about 2 years ago | (#39139037)

It's fine to blame the Liberals (or the most-recent government of a different party) for laws they passed and screwed up and the current government has to fix, but stop blaming the Liberals for legislation that never passed. If the Conservatives thought it was a bad bill, they wouldn't have resurrected it.

And FYI, many Liberal supporters fought against those bills when the Liberals introduced them. Why can't Conservative supporters stop blindly supporting bills and laws just because they're backed by Conservatives? Are they that blind that they MUST unwaveringly follow their leader in all things?

C-30 was backpedaled on not because of massive public outcry, because the Harper Conservatives are used to ignoring that. What they AREN'T used to is a significant number of their base vocally and publicly turning on them. Even Sun News, the far-right news outlet that almost always supports the Conservative agenda, called Toews "an idiot" and said the bill was indefensible ("in its current form").

We need to reevaluate Copyrights. (2)

jellomizer (103300) | about 2 years ago | (#39138103)

The nature of Copyright Piracy has changed but the laws haven't.

Back in them olden day. For a severe copyright infringement it took a good amount of resources. For books you needed a printing press, for music you needed to be able to grind and duplicate records. It needed expensive equipment, and experience labor to really cause a big infringement. And the laws penalties where heavy because the fine needs to big enough to make sure people don't want to go down that path and invest so much in an illegal activity.

Today it takes more work not to commit a Copyright violation. Near every consumer has a computer which can make duplicate copies of information, it is more convent to Rip a CD and store it on your drive, or when looking for some media to just download a copy, and if someone wants a copy you can just send it over to them. No copies of tapes where after the 3rd or 4th copy it becomes near unusable. Or photocopies of photocopies.... You get Mint or at least second copy perfection every time over and over again. It is cheap and your 6 year old kid can do it. But the laws are still based on the old way, and its fines are weighed as such.

Laws need to be redefined for fare use and copy. Make sure the fines appropriated for the crime... 10000 downloaded movies and songs... $100.00 fine. If you are being more active and have a dedicated server pushing that data to the general public you will expect to be fined more. Appropriate take down grace periods with rules that puts more pressure on the accuser to prove that they are the victim.

Re:We need to reevaluate Copyrights. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39139487)

Back in them olden day

It needed expensive equipment, and experience labor

And the laws penalties where heavy

. Near every consumer

it is more convent to Rip a CD

Laws need to be redefined for fare use

Are you by any chance related to Joe Dragon [slashdot.org] or Geekoid [slashdot.org] , by any chance?

Re:We need to reevaluate Copyrights. (1)

RandomAvatar (2487198) | about 2 years ago | (#39139947)

I would have to agree that the punishment needs to be altered to fit the crime, but I think your estimate is way off. A song costs about a dollar, and a movie costs about 5. So for 10000 pirated songs it should be $10,000.00, and for 10000 pirated movies (who pirates that many movies or songs anyways?) it should be $50,000.00.

This way the companies get the actual price of what was stolen, the pirate pays for exactly what has been downloaded, plus a cent or two per song or movie for the effort the company and court had to go through to catch the thief.

I may be against what big corporations are doing to the average person, but I also think that people screwing the corporations is wrong as well, just not on the same level.

Ok, so... (3, Insightful)

owenferguson (521762) | about 2 years ago | (#39136191)

If I send a legit copy of something I have the copyright on to a friend, using the internet, and the ISP records a copy of my traffic at the government's behest, aren't they engaging in piracy?

Re:Ok, so... (1)

I Read Good (2348294) | about 2 years ago | (#39136563)

You're ISP doesn't record streams. They only log packet headers. The NSA on the other hand...

Re:Ok, so... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39136879)

But what if I send specially constructed packets that contains the data in the header?

Re:Ok, so... (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39137387)

Then you are a moron and should go kill yourself.

Simple - Politics (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39136211)

(Posting AC because I'm at work)

The reason Canada is on the piracy watch list is simple - Canadian politicians want us to be there so they can have a reason to craft draconian laws that appease big media's wishes. Really, it's that simple - it's political manoeuvring in an effort to get the public to support legislation that is "clearly needed" because, you know, we're on the US's piracy watch list so things must be bad in Canada! We need to fix it. Now just accept these laws that allow warrantless searches and other things that are obscene so I can get my phat payoff cash from Big Media Corp.

Really, it's that simple. And pathetic.

Re:Simple - Politics (0, Troll)

bigbangnet (1108411) | about 2 years ago | (#39136315)

I think its because artist are getting sick and tired of people copying their material without permission. Steven Harper's party don't give a crap about the culture (look how much cash he gives to the dept of culture, that is pathetic) so he really don't have high priority on this matter. But the artist have enough voice to tell him to do something since it's becoming slowly out of control.

Re:Simple - Politics (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39136523)

You really understand nothing of the issues involved, do you? Artists have really little to say in this debate; in fact alot of those against the current copyright putch are muzzeled by their recording contracts. No. All this is a move by the content holders (not artists, whom, for a majority, do not own copyrights to their own works) that see their livelyhood threathened by self publication and the demise of their retail cash cow. It is a war of control and monstruous profits. And our increasingly totalitarist goverments, well compasated by their industry friends, are just happy to get along. See all the laws they are trying to pass that will erode what little privacy and liberty you currently enjoy. It is scary. Artists will end up being screwed after this, indies or signed. Nobody but them will win.

But have fun drinking their Kool Aid, by all means...

Re:Simple - Politics (2)

GmExtremacy (2579091) | about 2 years ago | (#39136643)

You seem like the type of person that might try to defend DRM and draconian laws that hurt innocents. There's literally almost nothing that people can do to stop piracy that won't violent innocent people's rights.

Re:Simple - Politics (3, Insightful)

poetmatt (793785) | about 2 years ago | (#39136719)

copying without permission?

If you have to ask permission to copy something, there's a problem with the laws that exist.

Creating an uncertainty of "can I copy something?" is what burdens entire societies and creates unnecessary costs. see: united states.

Re:Simple - Politics (1)

LandDolphin (1202876) | about 2 years ago | (#39138135)

copying without permission?

If you have to ask permission to copy something, there's a problem with the laws that exist.

Creating an uncertainty of "can I copy something?" is what burdens entire societies and creates unnecessary costs. see: united states.

So are you saying everything should be freely copied?

Re:Simple - Politics (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39136839)

The ARTISTS have been the only ones saying that piracy DOESNT hurt them. It's the crooked publishers and distributors that are actually hurting the artists.

Did you forget about the scandal where Canadian labels were ACTUALLY PIRATING MATERIAL FROM ARTISTS they didnt have contracts with?

http://www.zeropaid.com/news/93594/canadian-record-labels-settle-royalty-suit-for-50-million/

It happened for YEARS and the case took forever just for the artists to get a FRACTION of what was owed. They were on the hook for ***$6 BILLION*** and they bled the case out long enough to settle for a measly $50 million paid out over a few YEARS. WHAT THE FUCK.

If you take a look around, you'll realize that the tired "sharing music hurts artists" line flat out wrong. The labels are the ones fucking them right out of money....then paying back a FRACTION.

Re:Simple - Politics (1)

voidphoenix (710468) | about 2 years ago | (#39137221)

+5 On the Mark

Re:Simple - Politics (1)

Gr8Apes (679165) | about 2 years ago | (#39137443)

First, I love this story purely because it is incontrovertible proof that the distributors do NOT have the best interests of the artists in hand, and that they flagrantly violate REAL copyrights.

That said, note that the original admitted liability was for $50 million for 300K infringements. The $6B figure was because the artists got tired of the delay game and demanded the maximum $20K per incident. So the real benefit of this case is when the RIAA comes knocking for whatever ridiculous sum, we can just point to this case and say the real damage is only $166.67/infringement as per accepted "payment of the prevailing ‘industry rate’ payable for mechanical reproduction,”" I do note that this was for "mechanical reproduction". However, since there were no limitations on the reproduction, I think it would be a simple argument to compare that to the reproduction done across computers and that the type of reproduction done is splitting hairs as far as damages go.

Re:Simple - Politics (4, Interesting)

toriver (11308) | about 2 years ago | (#39137587)

Yes, we need an "artist exploitation watchlist", so that Elvis Costello [nme.com] and Motörhead [msn.com] don't have to go out and publically WARN their fans against buying over-priced box sets made to line the pockets of record company executives.

Re:Simple - Politics (1)

LandDolphin (1202876) | about 2 years ago | (#39138171)

The ARTISTS have been the only ones saying that piracy DOESNT hurt them.

Of course, because artist often dont own the copyright. They sold it for the record contract. So since they (the artists) have already been paid - it doesn't hurt them. But it does hurt the group they they (the artists) sold it too.

Re:Simple - Politics (1)

bigbangnet (1108411) | about 2 years ago | (#39139553)

I'm sorry to say this but : The ARTISTS have been the only ones saying that piracy DOESNT hurt them." This is completely false. Piracy does hurt. Think about it, let say you spent 100k$ on your "product" and then you realise that it's on piratebay.org or some other site free to everyone. Don't give me crap with that piracy doesn't hurt. Piracy does hurt and at the same time it gives just enough image to the publisher (or whoever is behind it) to give enough attention so people buy their products.

It's the crooked publishers and distributors that are actually hurting the artists : Just for a fact, they hurt everyone, not only the artist by the way.

Re:Simple - Politics (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39136407)

Really, it's that simple. And pathetic.

Yep. Part of the wikileaks cables specifically confirmed this. People who were working for Harper, but were supposed to be working for Canada, asked the United States to add Canada to that list for just the reason you gave.

Re:Simple - Politics (4, Informative)

TheSpoom (715771) | about 2 years ago | (#39136455)

This should not be a surprise to anyone in the know. After all, it's coming from the man who wanted to rename the Government of Canada after himself in all official communications [theglobeandmail.com] .

"L'état, c'est moi" indeed. Just in a bit of a Quebecois accent.

Re:Simple - Politics (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39136775)

"L'éta, c'é moé, 'sti"?

Re:Simple - Politics (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39138311)

yeah Tabarnack !

Re:Simple - Politics (1)

elrous0 (869638) | about 2 years ago | (#39136697)

We need to fix it. Now just accept these laws that allow warrantless searches and other things that are obscene so I can get my phat payoff cash from Big Media Corp.

Well, of course. Anyone who says otherwise is clearly supporting child pornographers.

Re:Simple - Politics (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39136811)

Vic?

Re:Simple - Politics (2)

Hatta (162192) | about 2 years ago | (#39136827)

If the Copyright MAFIAA had their way, the US would be on the piracy watch list for its failure to pass SOPA & PIPA.

Re:Simple - Politics (3, Insightful)

Creepy (93888) | about 2 years ago | (#39136943)

That doesn't help - because Canadian copyright law does not match US copyright law, Canadians are violating US copyright law with what they call "public domain," and not changing their laws to match ours makes them evil slimy bastards that owe our publishers lots of money. The only recourse is to have all the countries in the world change their copyright law to match US copyright law, and yeah, that just isn't going to happen, nor should it, because that is stepping on each countries sovereign rights. Incidentally, most countries have pretty much the same copyright law as Canada (life + 50 years is the most common, life + 70 years second most common - here is a picture [wikimedia.org] )

Re:Simple - Politics (1)

jamstar7 (694492) | about 2 years ago | (#39137047)

The United States hasn't worried about other nations' sovereignty in several decades. Never heard of 'gunboat diplomacy'? Based on its actions, the US should have been placed on a 'rogue nation' list someplace decades ago.

Re:Simple - Politics (1)

Pope (17780) | about 2 years ago | (#39137003)

That, and Montreal cinemas were the one of the biggest sources for Cam bootlegs of first run movies for a good number of years. Hell, check out the early torrents of current TV shoes these days, many have the CITY TV logo in the corner, indicating a Canadian source.

Re:Simple - Politics (2)

djnforce9 (1481137) | about 2 years ago | (#39138915)

I agree with you. I wouldn't be surprised if the reason Canada is on the list is not because the copyright laws are inadequate but because the big media industries can't get away with some of the outrageous activities already being performed in the US (and certain other countries) such as suing someone sharing a small number of files for outrageous amounts (e.g. Jammie Thomas). Nor would the infamous "Pay up or else" schemes fly here either. More draconian laws would easily open the doors to all that madness and perhaps more.

Also, we pay a levy on blank media so the music industry is already receiving compensation from consumers.

Re:Simple - Politics (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39139459)

USian corporate interests, and the government they bought, want Canada "to be there so they can have a reason..."

There
FTFY

just playing the blame Canada game (0)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about 2 years ago | (#39136279)

just playing the blame Canada game

Bill C-11 (4, Informative)

bigbangnet (1108411) | about 2 years ago | (#39136291)

Theres a bill in Canada about copyright. It's the C-11 bill

http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Docid=5144516&file=4 [parl.gc.ca]

it was Bill C-61 first, then it died and was replaced by Bill C-32 which also died. Now its called Bill C-11. Have fun reading this.

Theres also a website which gives lots of information on that bill : http://www.digital-copyright.ca/billc11/ [digital-copyright.ca]

Canada? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39136293)

Canadian pirates eh?

Re:Canada? (1)

xystren (522982) | about 2 years ago | (#39136463)

Check out The Last Saskatchewan Pirate by Capt. Tractor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G_L9tXEwmc [youtube.com]

Re:Canada? (1)

compro01 (777531) | about 2 years ago | (#39136959)

Actually, that song was originally by the Arrogant Worms. Still an amusing song.

COMPACT DISC LEVY (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39136327)

end of story
the greedy bastards have stolen 600 million off us and then turn round call us pirates?
FUCK YOU AMERICA.

Re:COMPACT DISC LEVY (2)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | about 2 years ago | (#39136793)

Why was this modded down? I agree with the parent that all Canadians should pirate rampantly and remorselessly as long as they are paying media levies. Do not buy shit. Pirate it all until the levy is removed.

Re:COMPACT DISC LEVY (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39137841)

Because it's trolling. Yes, it sucks, but it has nothing to do with the US, last I checked, Canada wasn't actually a part of the US, it was Canadian politicians that enacted that.

US pressure (2)

WhyNotAskMe (2571885) | about 2 years ago | (#39136337)

Countries like Canada, Australia, and New Zealand are very vulnerable to pressure from the USA, who's trade representatives use strong arm tactics to further their ends. They think nothing of inventing issues like this to further their goals. The problems begin with corruption of the legislative process [whynotaskme.org] in the USA, and is exported from there all over the world.

Re:US pressure (1)

bussdriver (620565) | about 2 years ago | (#39139653)

CANADA is now the biggest OIL supplier to the USA. They shouldn't be so easily pushed around.

but we DO according to Zoe Addington (5, Insightful)

denis-The-menace (471988) | about 2 years ago | (#39136385)

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/1048993--leaks-show-u-s-swayed-canada-on-copyright-bill?bn=1 [thestar.com]

A U.S. Embassy cable written in April 2009 describes a meeting between
Zoe Addington, director of policy for then industry minister Clement, and U.S. officials.

In contrast to the messages from other Canadian officials, she said that
if Canada is elevated to the Special 301 Priority Watch List (PWL), it would not hamper
and might even help the (government of Canada's) ability to enact copyright legislation,

the cable says.

Days later, Canada was elevated on the piracy watch list.

NOTE: entire post shamelessly stolen from guidryp [slashdot.org]

Re:but we DO according to Zoe Addington (1)

future assassin (639396) | about 2 years ago | (#39136845)

I posted this on here several times. Really the only thing to do is to pick up our illegal guns and stand up. Yes guns, no one will stop buying/consuming commercial media to stop the money flow, so what else is left? Burn down radio/tv/music stores?

Re:but we DO according to Zoe Addington (1)

JonySuede (1908576) | about 2 years ago | (#39138435)

art and copyright are not worth dying for,
political dissent is, but only as the last resort option; I do not fell that we are there yet...

lolwut? (4, Funny)

Quiet_Desperation (858215) | about 2 years ago | (#39136399)

Pfffbbt! Canada! Of course you don't put imaginary lands on watch lists. Canada is an old fairy tell parents tell when they don't want their children to become improv comics or hockey fans.

Hey Now (1)

ThatsNotPudding (1045640) | about 2 years ago | (#39139043)

Pfffbbt! Canada! Of course you don't put imaginary lands on watch lists. Canada is an old fairy tell parents tell when they don't want their children to become improv comics or hockey fans.

What a terrible thing to say; my girlfriend is from Canada!
.
.
.
What?

Canada should strive to be on every list like that (2, Insightful)

roman_mir (125474) | about 2 years ago | (#39136447)

The real issue is that Canada is not doing enough to be included into all lists like that. Canada, as a raw material and energy exporter, needs to allow its currency to be set by the market and it needs to allows all of its copyright and patent laws to be set by the market as well - which means, the legislation around all of these issues need to be repealed. If Canada allows its currency and regulations to go where the market takes them, it will not only be a raw material, energy exporter, but will bring in tons of new investments and businesses into the country.

Re:Canada should strive to be on every list like t (1)

Lumpy (12016) | about 2 years ago | (#39136649)

Hey canada, want to save money operating your government? Switch over to the US dollar as your currency. It worked for the EU and Euro! Look at how happy they are over there!

Re:Canada should strive to be on every list like t (1)

toriver (11308) | about 2 years ago | (#39137679)

There are other countries that have switched to the U.S. dollar: stable democracies like... Zimbabwe.

Re:Canada should strive to be on every list like t (1)

quacking duck (607555) | about 2 years ago | (#39139153)

The Canadian dollar is, at the moment I'm writing this, worth more than the US dollar.

We'll keep our different-coloured bills [wikipedia.org] and dollar/two-dollar coins, they are far nicer and more convenient to carry around anyway, and they don't smell like unwashed body :-P

Re:Canada should strive to be on every list like t (1)

Capt.DrumkenBum (1173011) | about 2 years ago | (#39139163)

As a Canadian I would like to avoid using the American Peso, thank you very much.

Re:Canada should strive to be on every list like t (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39136777)

Please go fuck yourself.

America needs to be told to fuck off by every damned country which is being pressured by the US to live up to their absurd copyright wishes.

I'm fed up with hearing US politicians trying to force every other country in the world to bend over and take it up the ass.

When most of us ask "what have you done for us lately", the answer is that you've mostly become like a dinner guest who has overstayed their welcome.

Assholes with a sense of entitlement. It's wearing thin.

Re:Canada should strive to be on every list like t (1)

roman_mir (125474) | about 2 years ago | (#39136883)

I am Canadian (by one of passports, anyway.)

Re:Canada should strive to be on every list like t (3, Interesting)

jeffc128ca (449295) | about 2 years ago | (#39137225)

" Canada, as a raw material and energy exporter, needs to allow its currency to be set by the market..."

What the hell are you talking about?!? Canada's currency is a freely floating one and has been for a few decades. It's one of the few countries on the planet that has a completely floating exchange rate. As for natural resources we have a time honored tradition of selling it abroad. The oil sands in Alberta being the latest.

Re:Canada should strive to be on every list like t (0)

roman_mir (125474) | about 2 years ago | (#39139471)

First: I am not talking about exchange rate between two fake currencies, I am talking about allowing the market to decide what real money is and what interest rates are (you know, price on money). Second, I said that Canada would invite huge amounts of investments it if started repealing its regulations and stopped the money printing and setting interest rates.

I shall answer these charges of piracy... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39136457)

with the mouth of my cannons!

Re:I shall answer these charges of piracy... (2)

NoNonAlphaCharsHere (2201864) | about 2 years ago | (#39136755)

Don't shoot! We surrender! You can have Michigan!

Re:I shall answer these charges of piracy... (2)

Opie812 (582663) | about 2 years ago | (#39139715)

We accept your surrender, but on our conditions. And they are:

1. You take Quebec.

Canada already pays a levy on media for this. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39136527)

The Canadian Private Copying Collective already collects a levy tax on media "as a way of paying for fair use".

http://neil.eton.ca/copylevy.shtml#what_amount

The things everyone, including politicans, seem to forget...

Re:Canada already pays a levy on media for this. (1)

mark-t (151149) | about 2 years ago | (#39137035)

That levy is for private copying only. It does not in any way, shape, or form, legitimize piracy.

Re:AND (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39137217)

I copy everything from my downloading onto yur 26.7 cent paid levy to the cdrs privately thank you....
NICE to make yourself available for stupid comment syndrome.
"You must wait a little bit before using this resource; please try again later."
"You must wait a little bit before using this resource; please try again later."
"You must wait a little bit before using this resource; please try again later."

Re:Canada already pays a levy on media for this. (1)

rikkards (98006) | about 2 years ago | (#39137547)

That levy is for private Music copying only. It does not in any way, shape, or form, legitimize piracy.

Fixed that for you

Re:Canada already pays a levy on media for this. (1)

Guspaz (556486) | about 2 years ago | (#39139229)

Legally, it doesn't legitimize piracy. Morally, it does, for most Canadians. You can't attach a private music copying levy to digital cameras and expect people to not feel justified in downloading whatever they want. Otherwise, what are they paying for? Theoretically the fee is for private copying, yes, but most Canadians would not recognize private copying as something that warrants payment, so in their minds, the fee just covers music in general.

Luckily, the attempt to get a music levy on digital cameras hasn't gone anywhere. Not that it made any sense to begin with, but that's the kind of stuff we have to put up with here. They also got a $40 levy on iPod sales for a while (got shot down), and they're always trying to put a levy on all internet connections.

Of course, the private copying regime is also why it's legal to download MP3s from the internet without paying for them in Canada, because this action is an individual making a private copy, which is of course legal. If the record industry hadn't pushed for the private copying regime, this might not be the case... By the same token, the person sending the file typically isn't responsible, so long as they merely made available and didn't actively initiate the transfer. Making available was compared by the courts to a library putting in a photocopier (which is standard in all Canadian libraries in my experience); the library is not liable when somebody photocopies a book without permission.

Re:Canada already pays a levy on media for this. (2)

jamstar7 (694492) | about 2 years ago | (#39137099)

Yes, they do pay that levy. And no, it won't go away when these copyright lawas are passed. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

In other words.... (2, Interesting)

Lumpy (12016) | about 2 years ago | (#39136629)

Canada is now on the "United States's Bitch List" as you guys do what we tell you.

Honestly, I cant believe that my country is strong arming everyone on this planet into catering to a few small Organized crime operations.

Re:In other words.... (1)

gstoddart (321705) | about 2 years ago | (#39136981)

Honestly, I cant believe that my country is strong arming everyone on this planet into catering to a few small Organized crime operations.

Small?? Man, according to them, they represent almost the entire economy.

Just think of all of those fictional trillions of dollars they're not bringing in in revenue.

Re:In other words.... (1)

denis-The-menace (471988) | about 2 years ago | (#39137481)

Only Canada?

Every country is by default according to the "Cables"

Just get the Banks out of Congress and the Whitehouse and lots of this BS goes away.

Classic (1)

Krau Ming (1620473) | about 2 years ago | (#39136905)

Haven't you heard that we harbour (aka: harbor) lots of terrorists too? Code yellow! Blame Canada! Ooooh, that reminds me, I should download that good old South Park movie tonight... um, through iTunes i mean.

South Park was prophetic. (2)

forkfail (228161) | about 2 years ago | (#39136935)

We must invade Canada!

Re:South Park was prophetic. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39137303)

We must invade Canada!

You did, remember?.... And we kicked your asses out!

Re:South Park was prophetic. (1)

forkfail (228161) | about 2 years ago | (#39138207)

No wonder you get branded as terrorist pirates.

Re:South Park was prophetic. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39137807)

We must invade Canada!

It didn't go so well the first time...

Re:South Park was prophetic. (1)

Capt.DrumkenBum (1173011) | about 2 years ago | (#39139247)

We must invade Canada!

Good luck to you with that. We have hockey sticks and we know how to use them.
The last time Americans tried to invade Canada it didn't work out to well for them.

But first (1)

eternaldoctorwho (2563923) | about 2 years ago | (#39136953)

Why don't we focus on just getting the US off the US Piracy Watchlist, before worrying about everyone else?

Not sure that was really discussing piracy... (1)

Exit_On_Right (2466888) | about 2 years ago | (#39137011)

I'm a big fan of Michael Geist, but I think he's missed it here.

He's talking about declining rates of business software piracy and camcording. But both of these areas have avenues of detection and enforcement. Theaters are on the watch for camcorders (and apparently big bags of M&M's hidden in my wife's purse...), and there are many ways businesses are outed for using pirate software (auditors, whistleblowers, etc...) What the US is complaining about are the infringements where enforcement is lax or non-existent in Canada, specifically music and digitally copied movies (does anyone really watch those awful cam copies?).

When Geist discusses movies, music and video games, he cites growth and sales figures in those industries as evidence that piracy rates are dropping. I'm not convinced. It most likely only shows an improvement in the economy since the economic meltdown of 2008. At any rate, the actual cause cannot be determined from this data alone. This is a classic case of not understanding the idea that correlation does not imply causation. He should know better than to even try this approach.

Canada's laws allow Canadians to pirate whatever they like at will with no fear of repercussions. That absolutely creates a climate that would be considered a haven for pirates. It's great that some are choosing to pay for their IP, but let's not kid ourselves about what it is we have going on here. Citing growth figures in legitimate sales doesn't prove that piracy is on the decrease, it only shows that the industry is doing better.

Re:Not sure that was really discussing piracy... (3, Interesting)

gstoddart (321705) | about 2 years ago | (#39137479)

Canada's laws allow Canadians to pirate whatever they like at will with no fear of repercussions.

No. Canada has some explicit "fair use" exceptions in our copyright legislation. It's still illegal to distribute widely.

You can't just give away copies of digital things willy nilly, but you can make a rip of a CD your friend loans you. Though, if the current government have their way, breaking any form of 'digital lock' would become a criminal offense, even if it's to exercise your existing rights.

And, since the media companies insisted on it, we pay a levy on blank recordable media. So, to many of us, they've already secured payment from us. So I don't particularly care if I rip a CD -- though, I generally prefer to buy them so I have a physical copy that I rip. They've got their piracy slush fund, so fuck 'em.

He points out that "illegal camcording had largely disappeared from the Canadian market", so I'm not sure why you're claiming it's widespread. He's also talking about how Canada has a thriving digital music market place, which means people are buying music here. Hell, I've bought several hundred CDs over the last bunch of years ... but, I know I'm likely the exception.

And, I wouldn't be so quick to accuse Geist of confusing correlation and causation ... he's a law professor who studies this kind of stuff in depth. He's not some n00b who makes a habit of bad logic.

Public Domain Special Watch List (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39137075)

The USA tops the Public Domain Special Watch List, with Mexico second.

This list tracks the viability of the Public Domain based on copyright terms, what can be copyrighted, and Fair Use exemptions.

You can either stand with the Public, or stand with the Rightsholders. Your choice.

I just want Dexter Season 4 and up... (3, Insightful)

jeffc128ca (449295) | about 2 years ago | (#39137367)

Piracy here is definitely a problem as I have many friends constantly encouraging me to get my media it the down and dirty way. I have stubbornly been trying to do it the legit way for a long time now. The latest is in trying to get Dexter season 4 and up. Season 1 to 3 is on Netflix Canada but I will be damned if I can rent seasons 4 and up any where. I solved this by using a VPN proxy to the U.S. and some gift card trickery on Amazon to watch it online. I lied to pay for it instead of pirating it.

There is a crap load of content we can never get because some rights holder here in Canada won't allow it to be shown at all here. That's why we can't get Pandora or Spotify. I've seen Canadian indy musicians have their stuff available on iTunes U.S. long before it's available in the Canadian store.

How long do I put up with this before I become a total pirate? Right now I pay a proxy service to pretend like I am American so I can buy the content. I want to pay and be legit but at some point it's just easier to pirate the stuff.
 

Re:I just want Dexter Season 4 and up... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39138593)

vpntunnel.se/en FTW!!!

Re:I just want Dexter Season 4 and up... (2)

djnforce9 (1481137) | about 2 years ago | (#39139067)

And here lies one of the TRUE causes of piracy. Lack of availability! How else are we expected to get these things if they aren't even being sold (or are grossly overpriced). Imports are incredibly expensive.

This is where the industry needs to fix their business model instead of clamping down with tougher legislation. In the digital age, we no longer have the need to let some "gatekeepers" dictate what we can or cannot experience. To stay competitive, that level of service needs to be matched. Sadly, it must be more profitable just to lobby and sue people until we're back living in the previous decade.

I say give us full availability globally right from day one and watch as things improve. It won't eliminate piracy 100% but it sure will help matters.

Why doesn't Canada just tell the US to... (2)

Nyder (754090) | about 2 years ago | (#39137379)

... fuck off? What are we going to do? Go to war? Make an embargo against Canada?

Of course, Canada can be playing the "sure, we'll sort of go along with you" card, while waiting for us to continue fucking up, so it can swoop down and take what it wants.

But me? If i was Canada, i'd say, Fuck You USA. What are you going to do about it?

We can bully on 3rd World Countries, We can bully Middle East Countries. Shit, we got Australia as our testing ground. But if countries like England, or Canada stood up and said, You crazy USA and fuck you, we'll do what we want. And if you don't like it, we'll just sell our energy and natural resources else where.

But Canada is too polite and has no balls, so that will never happen. Really sucks also, because Canada could start changing everything for the better.

Face it. The USA is a bully and we need someone to stand up to us and put is in our place.

Re:Why doesn't Canada just tell the US to... (1)

compro01 (777531) | about 2 years ago | (#39137535)

Because the social conservatives, conned fiscal conservatives, single issue voters, and gullible people got together and elected a majority Conservative government.

They're not going to tell the to fuck off because they full-heartedly agree with them on this matter.

Re:Why doesn't Canada just tell the US to... (1)

dual eyes (1248666) | about 2 years ago | (#39139397)

I think the government is waking up. I also think most Canadians are starting to realize that America is not the wonderful friend nor a force for democracy and liberty like they were in the olden days. Whether you supported the Keystone project or not, the American cancellation of it was pure politics and a signal to Canada that Canadians should not trust America. Perhaps the rejection of Keystone was a good thing in that it has forced the Canadian government to acknowledge the USA is not a reliable trading partner and Canada should look for new friends. http://business.financialpost.com/2012/01/25/harper-builds-oil-link-with-china-after-obama-keystone-slap [financialpost.com]

Canadian jurisprudence out of FBI reach... (1)

ElitistWhiner (79961) | about 2 years ago | (#39137419)

Software piracy just across the American border is an FBI no-go, so where do you think stolen web property relaunches after leaving the confines of the U.S.? ...Canada earned it place rightly

Re:Canadian jurisprudence out of FBI reach... (1)

JonySuede (1908576) | about 2 years ago | (#39138655)

they relocate in the Kahnawake Mohawk Internet Technologies data-center. Mohawk are subject to theirs own laws as the RCMP, the SQ and the OPP are afraid of them; hell !, even the criminal gangs are threading lightly with them.

Re:Canadian jurisprudence out of FBI reach... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39138763)

Software piracy just across the American border is an FBI no-go, so where do you think stolen web property relaunches after leaving the confines of the U.S.? ...Canada earned it place rightly

Yeah, like this Conservative government wouldn't just hand a Canadian citizen over to the FBI upon first request. Hell, they'd be bending over backwards to do so. I swear Harper really wants us to just be annexed by the US. He is sure trying to turn us into a clone...

I have one nit to pick with Mr. Geist's document (1)

msobkow (48369) | about 2 years ago | (#39137555)

As far as I'm aware, there are precedent cases in Canada spanning almost 40 years which provision Canadians with the right to make backups of the media they own, and that such format shifting and backup making has been a Canadian right since the late 1970's to early 1980's. At the time, what was dealt with was making cassettes or 8-tracks of LP records for listening to in cars and elsewhere, and to protect the consumer from loss of the recording should the fragile LP become scratched or otherwise damaged.

Apparently Bill C-11 finally codifies those rights in law rather than just precedent cases, but the DMCA-like provisions fly in the face of existing precedent and should NOT be allowed to move forward. I do understand that this article is to explain to US authorities why Canada is not a pirate haven rather than to raise objections to any offending portions of C-11, but I think it's disingenuous to tout such an "advantage" of the new legislation when many Canadians are doing their damndest to see that clause struck from C-11 (myself included.)

But it's typical of the American government. They bleat whatever the media companies tell them to bleat; they don't actually analyze the legal landscape or alternative views and legislation of foreign nations. Essentially, if you don't do things "the US way", you must be a pirate nation.

A situation not all that dissimilar from Vic Toews claims that anyone who objects to the government spying on them in Canada must be siding with paedophiles -- it's a spurious and disingenous attempt to insult the public into obedience. And the US employs that pathetic and shameful tactic ALL THE TIME in their so-called "negotiations" and policies on international trade and agreements.

Hey Canada! (1)

toriver (11308) | about 2 years ago | (#39137743)

Next time you need to buy military aircraft, keep this in mind and look across the Atlantic for some non-US options. Just sayin'.

Re:Hey Canada! (1)

JonySuede (1908576) | about 2 years ago | (#39138669)

Our dear leader wont permit it, I deeply apologize.

It belongs (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39138019)

Arrr, eh!

Yes, the only reason they were on the list (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39139057)

Yes, the only reason they were on the list is because the US government (a wholly owned subsidiary of BigMedia(tm)), wants draconian laws, just like in the US, and putting Canada on the list puts pressure on the Canadian Government to pass these stupid laws. Its all about money for nothing. Its a racket, not unlike the Mafia, except they use laws to screw the populace.

Of course Canada is on the List (1)

cubicle (121759) | about 2 years ago | (#39139495)

Software Piracy is rampant in Canada, not because there are not enough laws preventing it, but because the police are too under funded. Bill C-11 is useless unless it mandates police forces in Canada spend a certain amount of resources on the problem. As a self employed Computer Technician I am basically out of work because my conciense will not allow me to work on pirated software. I live in Waterloo Region Ontario about 50 percent of the companies I have worked for are using pirated software, some of these companies are very productive in term of capitial, but won't spend 800 a seat for Microsoft Office but instead expect me to install a pirated copy.

Since there is no enforcement my competitors always get more calls than me. I will not say I am perfect but there is a huge difference between bending rules and breaking them. We are talking about companies with one to twenty employees that have The latest version of Microsoft Windows and Office on their computers but have no licenses for any of them. 10 years ago you may have been able to justify that but with Linux, Gimp, and Libre Office you can no longer say you have no alternative. There are new computer Vendors selling fake COA's and Windows in Waterloo, Check for the hologram. I used to sell custom built hardware but I can't compete with pirated software.

Most of the problem is how police forces are run in Canada unlike the United States local the RCMP must go to the local regional forces as it is their's not the RCMP's juristiction. What Canada need is a police agency like the Federal Bureau of Iinvestigation that has control of National and International crime, a true federal force with ultimate jurisdiction. Not the current hodepodge of police forces the currently exists in Canada. The police in Canada already have the tools, we do not need more laws except for mandating a true national police force with ultimate jurisdiction like the United States of America .

Re:Of course Canada is on the List (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39140071)

And apparently you didn't bother to read the article, that addresses this particular issue, so your anecdotal evidence is pretty suspect:

Evidence even from industry sources suggests that rates of infringement have been declining in Canada. For example, the Business Software Alliance’s annual Global Piracy Report shows Canada steadily declining as it stands among the 15 lowest piracy countries in the world. Canada's is well below the Western European average and well below the other countries on the USTR Special 301 Watch List. While the BSA noted an increase in the dollar amount, this is due almost entirely to currency fluctuations given the stronger Canadian dollar. According to Michael Murphy, Chairman of the BSA Canada Committee, "at 28 per cent, Canada's piracy rate is at an all time low, dropping six percentage points since 2006."

If you really give a huge shit about other companies you've worked for using pirated software, use the link the AC above me posted to report them.

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