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Intel Joins LibreOffice

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the hardware-more-useful-with-software dept.

Intel 176

New submitter dgharmon writes "The month of February is a month to remember for the LibreOffice project. They formally incorporated the foundation in Berlin, released 3.5 with major changes and now Intel is joining the foundation as a member. Intel will also make available the LibreOffice for Windows from SUSE in Intel AppUp center. Intel AppUp Center is an online repository designed for Intel processor-based devices."

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Grist (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39167175)

Post

Re:Grist (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39167187)

DOUBLE NIGGER!!!

Re:Grist (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39167199)

look up in the sky. it's a bat. it's a crow. NO it's supernigger!

windows only app up (5, Informative)

vlm (69642) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167219)

Intel AppUp Center is an online repository designed for Intel processor-based devices.

Minor correction; its a windows only app store. Does not perform the miracle of running the same executable on mac osx, all linux distros, and windows. Just windows thats all.

libreoffice is available for all those platforms, just not available on the windows only appup

Re:windows only app up (2)

HForN (1095499) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167379)

Re:windows only app up (4, Informative)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167541)

I don't know anyone that runs that shit, my windows loving and windows certified engineer friends couldn't get off that crap to win 7 fast enough. I have banking clients that standardized on vista long-term as part of their strategic plan, and made the unprecedented step of taking the effort to recertify all the apps for win 7, the vista suckage was so very hard and deep

Re:windows only app up (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39167457)

Just imagine how much better the world would be ...

... if only obesity had a 100% fatality rate after 5 years.

It would almost totally eliminate all of the "my decisions are somehow not my fault" crowd. It would eliminate the kind of nanny-state government they always vote for. It would be the very best thing to happen to humanity in a long, long time. The formerly-fat survivors would be the ones who had five years to figure out that yes, if you get off your lazy ass and take some responsibility for your own life then you really can lose the weight. Seems fair since figuring that out should take about five seconds.

Re:windows only app up (2, Interesting)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167711)

It is also included with AMD netbooks so its not Intel only either as it came with my EEE 1215B. its not bad but I have a question: Dear Linux community, you guys WANT to gain share...right? You WANT people to actually use Linux, to spread the wealth of FOSS software, to have more and more people have real choices...yes? Am I right?

Then why in the hell are you not getting behind ExpressGate/Splashtop? Its fucking brilliant! The most innovative thing I've seen come from FOSS and you are just ignoring it? WTF? Why aren't you sending emails and letters and demanding all OEMs include this wonderful thing? For those that haven't tried it here is how it works: you have two buttons, one starts regular Windows, the other ExpressGate which we'll call EG. Now you push the Windows button you are looking at a bare minimum 45 seconds and that is if you used hibernate, with EG? 6 seconds cold boot. Now lets talk battery life, Win 7 HP X64 gets right at 6 hours on my 6 cell, if I use Brazos tweaker to lower the voltage I can squeeze it to 6:45, now how does that compare to EG? Over 7 hours with no tweaking. Now lets talk intuitive, if you know Windows you know Win 7, the search box is a big help but otherwise it hasn't really changed much. EG has a top row of tabs where everything is VERY logically laid out, you got games, video, audio, the appstore (yes they have an App store and its nice), and system. hell my mother could work this thing. it can also access media on your hard drive if you wish so you can still have all those tunes and videos you may have on your Windows partition in EG but again with better battery life as it seems to load as much as it can in memory and then shut down the HDD, this of course is smart as RAM takes the same power empty or full.

So here is your shot community, quit trying to rip off Windows (or more often the Macintosh) and simply route AROUND Windows instead. This is a way that every OEM could supply a FOSS OS to the masses WITHOUT the hassles of dual booting WITHOUT any "update foo broke my drivers" crap, hell you don't even really need CLI at all unless you want to script something. all you need to do is port plenty of apps to run with the EG/ST UI and pressure OEMs which frankly shouldn't be a hard sell as its a pretty simple setup, a little ROM, a little HDD space for extra apps, and a button. That's it! It probably costs less than 50c to add that feature to the bulletpoints on a unit. So C'mon Linux community, you finally have a winner if you would just step up. it has everything users want, its fast, its intuitive, it gets great battery life, its easy.

Re:windows only app up (4, Insightful)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167891)

Dear Linux community, you guys WANT to gain share...right? You WANT people to actually use Linux, to spread the wealth of FOSS software, to have more and more people have real choices...yes? Am I right?

As a Linux user speaking for nobody else, no, I don't really care.

As for EG, I've never used it, but I do study in a place where all machines dual-boot Windows and Linux, and despite the Linux distro booting much faster and actually having more applications (which users can't run on Windows, since it's pretty locked down), I've never seen anyone choose Linux unless by mistake, and even those proceeded to reboot the machine.

Re:windows only app up (3, Insightful)

eldorel (828471) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168017)

Why is the linux community ignoring Expressgate?

It can be difficult to update (bios/firware update?)
It can't be used on different systems. (I want my laptop and desktop and netbook to at least be similar systems.)
It is "customized" by the oem. (yay, another sybian/andriod style compatibility/UI nightmare)
It can't be easily backed up by an end user.
It is yet another layer of crap to break.
It has a tiny list of available software that has to be installed via an "app store".
It's virtually impossible to for an end user to know exactly what it is running behind the UI.

Additionally, On the laptops I've seen it on, it doesn't actually access 90% of the hardware (Usb-wifi/3d graphics/printer/scanner ?), and if I remember correctly is actually a locked efi partition with hooks directly into the bios.

That's why I'm ignoring it personally.

Now, if they can get it to be a fully featured os frontend for linux without the hardware dependent crap, maybe it could gain traction as a window manager instead of being just another piece of crappy bloatware that I uninstall.

There are two simple reasons that expressgate appears to work so well.
1) it only uses the hardware that is part of the motherboard. (see apple for how this works)
2) It's limited to only 3 or 4 activities and a few simple games.

Anyone (and everyone) can build a locked down device that plays music, surfs the web, and can play a few games on very specific hardware. (look at every handheld console in the last 4 years along with the entire smartphone/tablet market).

The entire point of a generic PC operating system is flexibility.
The single common thread with almost every successful linux distribution is the idea that the USER SHOULD HAVE A CHOICE.
Almost every single linux user I know of lists "the freedom to change things to work the way I like" as a primary motivation for switching.
"I can continue to use my $(unusual hardware peripheral)" is also right up there in the top 10 reasons.

If you don't need the ability to adapt to new requirements or to add completely new software/hardware then why are you buying a PC?
Go get a tablet, an hdmi monitor, and a bluetooth keyboard, just like my grandmother.

Re:windows only app up (-1, Flamebait)

symbolset (646467) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168137)

EG/Splashtop isn't necessary. Neither is Windows. Putting a dual-boot with Windows and Linux is a non-starter. Linux with LibreOffice is more than sufficient - and so is Android with the various office packages available. iOS with its office apps too. If you must use Microsoft's battery and memory sucking OS to work with its deliberately incompatible file formats and hideously insecure methods you can do it remotely through Citrix, OnLive Desktop, or oddly enough - another product called "Splashtop". Among other ways. Redmond products should be put in an inescapable jail or "glove box" so as not to contaminate your honest work and spread until you can't use anything but Redmond products.

Don't know what to say about the "rip off Windows" comment. That's so backwards it's impossible to address.

Linux is a kernel, not an OS. I hear it started the year with a quarter billion units in current use and looks to double that this year. By the end of next year it should have Windows systems easily outnumbered at that rate of growth. I don't see how contaminating it with Windows is going to improve that rate. We're going mobile, apps are going all-web and cloud-based for the most part. It seems the days of Windows Native apps owning the world is coming to an end. Even Microsoft is abandoning them.

Re:windows only app up (-1, Troll)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168647)

For those who hate Windows there is MacOSX or some ishiny tablet which is more cost effective if all you do is tweet away and make buddies with your facebook friends than a real computer.

What is the strange obsession over Gnu/Linux? It is really weird and at least for me its time to let it go.

Before I get modded down into an oblivion I have to ask the parent and moderators a question?

The real question? Why should Joe Six Pack or Sandra housewife use this Linux with its strange Gnome-Shell gui rather than just stick with Windows? It comes with the machine, the user is familiar with it, knows how to use, can run his or her programs, and if he or she hates viruses or thinks Windows sucks they can get an iShiny Mac?

Linux is sure a lot of trouble when Windows just works and comes with the box. Windows you turn it on and that is it. Linux you have to install and setup. Therefore, why should a user change? I switched back to Linux last year but have been gradually migrating to Windows since Windows 7 came out anyway. I mean I read comments here like setting up Citrix or Onlive Desktop and I have to ask why just not use a regular Windows image with AD integration and call it the day?

In 1999 I thought it was cool shit compared to Windows 98 and NT 4 with a TON of cool software and free apis and a free C/C++/Ojbective-C, perl, and cool hacker utilities. It also never crashed and could save on battery power due to its superior software APM. ... fast-forward to 2012 and all that software is on Windows now. Linux is not cutting edge anymore and MacOSX is a true consumer OS as it was in beta in 1999. Linux regressed while Windows moved boldly forward.

Linux is a kernel, not an os ...

Fine you want to talk about as an OS?

Today Linux uses more battery use, is less stable, more buggy, does not do proper font rendering, does support mp3s, has a crappy Cell Phone GUI that does not even support minimizing Windows!? WTF and so on.

True you can enable mp3 if you search for some media repository or whatever it was on ubuntu or install fedora plus and search the internet to enable these super patented secret codecs. Yes, the kernel is 100% rock solid ... the apps on top are not. Grandma does not care about her uptime really. She wants to know why this weird update keeps failing and why her webcam is not recognized and why she can't install skype from the Windows CD Rom? Or you can flame me on how I can just go install a million different WMs to find a proper GUI but guess what? This is not 1999 anymore and is silly in 2012 to do these things. Hell half the guis outside of blackbox and XFCE have not changed since 1999 anyway.

Linux is not a desktop OS and there is no compelling reason to run it. If you are an engineer or develop server software or need a specialized embedded machine for your MIT project at school then yes that is a reason. Other than that it is a niche. NT is also a stable kernel and can take advantage of hardware to run server oriented and multi threaded software like Apache and Java. In the 1990s Unix rocked because you could run these pieces of software with a real operating system kernel. Today, Windows and MacOSX kernels can do that just fine.

Windows is not going anywhere. Linux is gone on the desktop. I am just one former user who still uses Linux on a VM for web development and it belongs only in the server room or some embedded device like a phone. You had 15 years to come up with a gui that didn't suck. Ubuntu 6.04 was pretty close and was sweet and finally included proper font rendering (now removed) and very very buggy and inferior applications. No Gimp is not Photoshop. LibreOffice is not MS office.

I am used to Windows again and I do not want to leave and like it fine here. I do not have these BSODS and only had 1 piece of malware in a year. It is not a horrible OS it was 12 years ago and people think it is WindowsME with IE 5.5 all over again because that is when they last used it. Trust me, if you go back you will realize how much it is not that bad.

Re:windows only app up (0)

danbeck (5706) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168747)

I doubt you are going to get any mod other than troll/flamebait here on slashdot, but I really feel you on this post. I converted to OS X about 5-6 years ago and between my win7 box at home and OS X at work, things are really looking good for PC consumers these days. There really just isn't a lot of reasons for regular people to use linux these days.

Re:windows only app up (-1, Redundant)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168803)

If you booted into a modern Ubuntu or Fedora distro you would be shocked to see where it is today.

It pains me as I was rooting for it for years. In the end I have work to do and I keep on messing up Linux config files wrestling with Apache, php, etc. I have a VM where I run it now. Development tools have finally ported and I do not see a reason to use it.

Windows was so horrible it would break if you sneezed on it back in 1999 when people on slashdot went crazy over Linux. It had cool things and you could make serious money if you knew C++ and Unix back then in 1999 in the .com days. Those days are gone and Linux desktop use has regressed years back. Windows 8 just might regress just as bad this summer ;-)

Maybe a mac wont be that bad if I can save up some dough. For now Windows 7 is fine.

Re:windows only app up (1)

symbolset (646467) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168881)

Keep thinking that Billy. You are #winning. You have Adonis DNA. Don't ever change.

and only had 1 piece of malware in a year.

Only one? A high achievement that. I congratulate you on your skill and good fortune. You must be especially prudent about clicking on unfamiliar links and opening emails from strangers.

Re:windows only app up (1)

TheRealMindChild (743925) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168415)

How many people go out of their way to buy a custom motherboard vs. some OEM prefab machine? Of those, how many are going to follow such a niche as Splashtop (let alone understand it)? Where exactly is the motivation (financial or otherwise)?

Re:windows only app up (1)

MrEricSir (398214) | more than 2 years ago | (#39169133)

ow you push the Windows button you are looking at a bare minimum 45 seconds and that is if you used hibernate, with EG? 6 seconds cold boot. Now lets talk battery life, Win 7 HP X64 gets right at 6 hours on my 6 cell, if I use Brazos tweaker to lower the voltage I can squeeze it to 6:45, now how does that compare to EG? Over 7 hours with no tweaking. Now lets talk intuitive, if you know Windows you know Win 7, the search box is a big help but otherwise it hasn't really changed much. EG has a top row of tabs where everything is VERY logically laid out, you got games, video, audio, the appstore (yes they have an App store and its nice), and system.

So the benefits of ExpressGate are exactly the same as using a tablet? Because Linux already has a decent-sized market share of that market.

Re:windows only app up (1)

fred911 (83970) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167961)

Intel AppUp center is an ...

A bloated front end for ftp://intel.com/pub/win [intel.com] .

Who's Paying the LibreOffice Devs? (1)

Eponymous Coward (6097) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167281)

Aren't most of the paid OpenOffice developers Oracle employees? I'm talking about the Star Office guys. Does LibreOffice have the same development manpower behind it?

Re:Who's Paying the LibreOffice Devs? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39167373)

The Document Foundation has a really nice graphics explaining who does which work:
http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2012/02/02/fosdem-preview/
Looks like other companies plus volunteers are adding much more to LibreOffice now than Oracle contributed to OpenOffice.

Re:Who's Paying the LibreOffice Devs? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39167903)

No, SUN/Oracle was by far the biggest supporter. A lot of developers were lost from the fork and are not coming back.

Re:Who's Paying the LibreOffice Devs? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39167943)

SUN was the biggest contributor, but Oracle is doing jack all. Most of the community that were around in the Sun days are now on LibreOffice.

OpenOffice once again? (1, Insightful)

Sussurros (2457406) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167301)

Given how IBM gave OpenOffice to Apache for its own business purposes I find that I more than a little uncomfortable about this. After all, LibreOffice was forned as a direct result of IBM's handling of OpenOffice.

Re:OpenOffice once again? (3, Informative)

Samantha Wright (1324923) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167317)

s/IBM/Oracle/g;

(Was that a bad troll, comparison, or brain failure?)

Re:OpenOffice once again? (1)

Sussurros (2457406) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167389)

Brain Failure - pure and simple brain failure. I even did a search to make sure I ahd my facts right...,

Re:OpenOffice once again? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39167501)

s/IBM/Oracle/g;

(Was that a bad troll, comparison, or brain failure?)

I'll rephrase your post: "As a woman, I have nothing of my own to contribute since this is technology, not literate or child care. But I sure do love it when a man is wrong! Yes, pointing that out while adding nothing of my own will surely demonstrate how superior I am to all men! Ahh, I love when men fail, even in some trivial manner, even when I didn't have the satisfaction of setting them up to fail myself..."

Since youre a woman and have scientific training .. are you fat? Homely? Old like the congresswomen who drop their last egg and suddenly care about politics? Look at Ayn Rand. She was ugly as fuck so she had to work for a living. She couldn't just sit at home watching daytime TV, eating bon-bons and paying perfunctory attention to her mewling cabbages.

Re:OpenOffice once again? (4, Funny)

Samantha Wright (1324923) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167931)

You should get a refund. Whatever amount you paid to learn how to troll, it was too much.

Re:OpenOffice once again? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39168003)

You should get a refund. Whatever amount you paid to learn how to troll, it was too much.

It got a response from you, just like it was intended to. It served its purpose and you provided the proof yourself.

So do you deny being fat and/or homely?

Re:OpenOffice once again? (2)

Samantha Wright (1324923) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168535)

I'm sorry, I'm just not feeling this. You're too intelligent, and not desperate enough. Can you just start over?

Re:OpenOffice once again? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39168195)

Deep down in your heart, you want to be a woman. Come on admit it!

Sorry, saw Intel read IBM (1)

Sussurros (2457406) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167319)

Sorry, saw Intel read IBM, oops.....

Re:OpenOffice once again? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39167425)

Sadly the Apache Office project is basically dead. Certainly when compared to LibreOffice:
http://www.italovignoli.org/2012/02/no-comment/
It is nice that the code was rescued from the claws of Oracle, but there is no development of the old code base anymore.
The whole community shifted to the Document Foundation and is helping LibreOffice get better and better.
Which is probably for the better, it would be nasty if there would be dueling groups around the same code base.

Re:OpenOffice once again? (2)

Kjella (173770) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167599)

On LibreOffice's development stats there's a fair chunk that says Oracle (OOo code) - I'd say around 15%, so it would seem they pull in most of those improvements anyway if it's possible. So it seems there will be very little reason to run the Apache version, unless LibreOffice start breaking more than they fix...

Re:OpenOffice once again? (1)

stephanruby (542433) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168087)

Did you mean Oracle instead of IBM?

LibreOffice! (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39167303)

FTW!

(fuck Oracle)

Re:LibreOffice! (1)

diego.viola (1104521) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167451)

+1

Re:LibreOffice! (1)

brian.wietse (1804392) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167611)

+1000

It's a start (1)

bbbaldie (935205) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167321)

Business has somehow gotten the whacked idea that it can't survive without paying hundreds of dollars per seat for an app that creates and edits office documents. Thanks, Intel, for helping to educate them that that's balderdash.

Re:It's a start (4, Funny)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167543)

Intel doesn't want you to spend hundreds of dollars on office software, they want you to spend hundreds of dollars on new processors because your FREE software is slow as fuck and requires new hardware.

Re:It's a start (1)

bbbaldie (935205) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167567)

Are you saying Libre Office is slower than the Microsoft version?

Re:It's a start (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39167675)

Yes, it is. It absolutely is slower. Libre Office does what most individuals need. Although, to be fair, Google Docs probably does what most individuals need anyway. But for businesses, MS Office makes a heck of a lot of sense still. Outlook, PowerPoint, and Excel run most large companies.

Re:It's a start (2)

bbbaldie (935205) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167805)

I haven't seen that, myself. No substitute for Access, unfortunately, but the rest of the Libre Office suite runs neck-and-neck with Office, in my experience.

Re:It's a start (2, Insightful)

Fnkmaster (89084) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167939)

You have obviously never opened a non-trivial spreadsheet in Calc and Excel. Excel is way faster. But yeah, for trivially simple docs they are comparable.

Re:It's a start (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39168283)

let us see see - if we just look for performance improvements specific to Calc we get this

http://www.libreoffice.org/download/3-5-new-features-and-fixes/#Calc
> Supports 10000 sheets and has improved performance for a lot of sheet operations (insertion of several sheets should be much faster now). (Markus Mohrhard)
>Performance improvement on the import of Excel documents containing a large number of form controls. (Kohei Yoshida)
>Performance improvement on the import of cell formats from Excel documents. (Kohei Yoshida)
>Improved performance on ODS import, especially with documents with large number of named ranges. (Laurent Godard, Markus Mohrhard, Kohei Yoshida)

www.libreoffice.org/download/3-4-new-features-and-fixes/
>Massive re-work of external reference handling: External reference handling code has been significantly re-worked in order to fix a large number of defects in formula calculations involving external references, and to boost data caching performance especially when referencing large data ranges. (Kohei Yoshida)

With the other general fixes it should at least not be as slow as before.

Re:It's a start (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168691)

True MS made some crappy software that deservingly needs to be flamed.

However, they have made great software as well. Office however is one of the product lines that is fairly well. Outlook and Word may not be the best, but Access, PowerPoint, and Excel are awesome and are stars in the business world.

Novell Group wise and Lotus is far worse than Outlook so nevermind about the Outlook comment :-)

Re:It's a start (0)

symbolset (646467) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168179)

Oh yeah. Microsoft Office runs like a gazelle on lightweight hardware like the new ARM tablets and smartbooks and Intel's new Haswell. Except it doesn't. Have you never heard the term "Intel giveth; Microsoft taketh away."?

Re:It's a start (1, Insightful)

westlake (615356) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167775)

Business has somehow gotten the whacked idea that it can't survive without paying hundreds of dollars per seat for an app that creates and edits office documents.

The geek sees the stand-alone office suite.

What he does not see is that MS Office is sold as part of an integrated office system that scales to an enterprise of any size.

Re:It's a start (0)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168711)

"Business has somehow gotten the whacked idea that it can't survive without paying hundreds of dollars per seat for an app that creates and edits office documents."

Have you run a business before? Go attach some documents that look like crap to your customers, vendors, potential employees and see how long you stay in business? Image is everything, which is why they wear suits or nice clothing.

If you use weird software in their eyes you are incompetent. I use Office for this reason and it is better than LibraOffice. I can't risk something not looking professional because of a bug in the file conversion process or some macro that was not fully compatible between the two suites.

MS is evil for purposely, introducing incompatibility but it worked and why it is essential to survive. Until the rest of the world standardizes on OpenDoc this situation wont change. ... and Office integrates with Active Directory quite well for the larger corporations who want group policies and ease of installations and groups and so on.

Re:It's a start (2)

bbbaldie (935205) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168795)

If you can't make documents that don't "look like crap" without Office, I'd say you have wizard addiction. There's the rtf format, for example, and Libre Office will also create documents in native Office formats. Modest documents (read: no blinking lights, no fancy fonts, no scrolling text) look quite comparable when created outside of the Office environment. A valid point was made about complicated spreadsheets in the comment queue, but otherwise, weaning yourself from Office is step one in regaining control of your hardware and your budget.

Re:It's a start (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39169139)

I have a simple document: my resume. When it's in OpenOffice it looks fine, but if I open it in Word 2007/2010 it looks like garbage. The problem isn't that the original document looks like crap; the problem is that "Save As Word/Excel 2007/2010" creates a document that looks like crap when you send it to other people running MS Office.

OK, so now can we start making it usable? (1, Interesting)

50000BTU_barbecue (588132) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167395)

Sorry, but Libre Office is an unusable mess.

1) Trying to update it. The updater complains about the quickstarter still running and it exits. It doesn't tell you what that is, or how to turn it off, or even present you with the choice of turning it off. So now what do I do? Any answer other than "Libre Office messed up the update process" is why Apple has too much money while the open source geeks are perceived as smelly losers.

2) Try to use Writer as anything more than a notepad? Forget it. I loaded our company's template that uses heading styles. It already had four headings which Writer numbers automatically 1 2 3 4. Fine. So I add another heading, expecting it to be "5". Is it 5? Of course not. Writer numbers my new heading as "2" with not a damn thing I can do about it. Does no one check the code for basic things here?

3) Try to use the export as PDF? You better check that PDF because if you think that in 2012 we are 20 years beyond WYSIWYG, think again. Export as PDF exported a mess with every single letter replaced with various-sized dots. Jesus wept, my Commodore 64 running GEOS outperforms that. And don't you DARE say there's something wring with my system becasue using a PDF print driver worked flawlessly.

So Intel, what are you gonna do about this?

Re:OK, so now can we start making it usable? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39167443)

Sorry, but Libre Office is an unusable mess.

1) Trying to update it. The updater complains about the quickstarter still running and it exits. It doesn't tell you what that is, or how to turn it off, or even present you with the choice of turning it off. So now what do I do? Any answer other than "Libre Office messed up the update process" is why Apple has too much money while the open source geeks are perceived as smelly losers.

2) Try to use Writer as anything more than a notepad? Forget it. I loaded our company's template that uses heading styles. It already had four headings which Writer numbers automatically 1 2 3 4. Fine. So I add another heading, expecting it to be "5". Is it 5? Of course not. Writer numbers my new heading as "2" with not a damn thing I can do about it. Does no one check the code for basic things here?

3) Try to use the export as PDF? You better check that PDF because if you think that in 2012 we are 20 years beyond WYSIWYG, think again. Export as PDF exported a mess with every single letter replaced with various-sized dots. Jesus wept, my Commodore 64 running GEOS outperforms that. And don't you DARE say there's something wring with my system becasue using a PDF print driver worked flawlessly.

So Intel, what are you gonna do about this?

There's something wrong with your system!

Yes .... he installed garbage software (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39167633)

I have years of experience using OpenOffice ..... and I have the same problems he is having while used the garbage distribution. Then again, the problem really started on OOo 3.2

You create a document with heavy formatting, save it, come back the next day to make changes and guess what happen? All the time you spent formating was a complete waste of time .... the document opens up all screwed up and unreadable. Both OpenOffice and LibreOffice are so crappy that they can't even re-open files produced with them, and saved in the native format.

The worst part of LibreOffice is that the support for legacy documentation sucks worst than OpenOffice. And legacy means, old OpenOffice, WordPerferct and MS Office file. The distro with the stupid name is unable to open the files that the parent can without any problem.

Re:Yes .... he installed garbage software (3, Informative)

SplashMyBandit (1543257) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168083)

... and MS Word does a better job with retaining perfect formatting from older versions of Word? not in my experience it doesn't! LibreOffice does a pretty good job of retaining formatting for ODF documents - this is the format you should be using and converting everything to, it is the true ISO standard for documents. If you are really worried about preserving presentation then use PDF, this is what everyone else on the Web does. Also use a good tool for doing documents, Acrobat is a good tool for professional documents - word processors are designed for lightweight tasks only (which is why they blow for making professional documents larger than a few dozen pages).

So he is supposed to pay Adobe to keep the format? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39168245)

Your intelligence level must be very low to suggest such a ridiculous cheap excuse to defend a crappy product.

The guy used OpenOffice for years, and he is telling you that the problem started on the newer version.

Don't be such a pathetic fanboy and simply accept that the tool you love and protect so much is not good enough to do REAL work and it has become worst not better than the source base that it started from.

Re:Yes .... he installed garbage software (1)

tbird81 (946205) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168905)

... and MS Word does a better job with retaining perfect formatting from older versions of Word? not in my experience it doesn't!

In my experience it does. After using OpenOffice (and now LibreOffice) on my home computer for 7 years, I am amazed when I use Word at work or elsewhere at how quick, easy to use and reliable it is.

It's not worth it to me to actually pay for the ease of use and consistency of Word, which is why I use Libre or GoogleDocs. But Word doesn't have the multitude of very minor flaws that LibreOffice has. I feel quite terrible for forcing my girlfriend at the time to do her essays and presentations in OOo all those years back! I should have just let her use her pirated version of Word.

Re:OK, so now can we start making it usable? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39168371)

Fuck off!
There's something wrong with Libre Office crappy software.

Re:OK, so now can we start making it usable? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39168555)

I think you have a virus.

Re:OK, so now can we start making it usable? (1)

50000BTU_barbecue (588132) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168887)

How DARE you! But seriously, all these problems typically pop up on Friday afternoons with looming deadlines. Who has the energy to start Googling for half an hour for what should be basic functionality?

(but it's perfect for starting flame wars...) (1)

Qubit (100461) | more than 2 years ago | (#39169209)

Sorry, but Libre Office is an unusable mess.
...

So Intel, what are you gonna do about this?

There's something wrong with your system!

And I think I know what it is. Just take a look at his username -- I think he may have turned his BBQ into a computer (or vice versa?)

Re:OK, so now can we start making it usable? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39167483)

FUD. Absolute FUD. Am so incredibly tired of every M$ office zealot flat out lying about OSS. I use nothing but OSS for everything I do and it works fine.

Re:OK, so now can we start making it usable? (2)

CajunArson (465943) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167497)

Yeah discovered an annoying bug when upgraded from 3.4 to 3.5 recently. The 3.5 version 1. refuses to use any of the perfectly functional cutom templates that I had made in 3.4 2. Barfs every time it starts up complaining that a "template already exists" and then subsequently refuses to use the template that already exists.... (this has shades of that !#%(&*!(%#& normal.dot in MS office).

Fortunately the error isn't fatal and I can continue to use the program, but even a trivial test of the upgrade program would have uncovered this bug well before 3.5 was considered "ready" for use. I'm not the only one who's experienced this problem either.

Re: OK, so can we stop bitching? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39167573)

Trying to update it. The updater complains about the quickstarter still running and it exits. It doesn't tell you what that is, or how to turn it off, or even present you with the choice of turning it off. So now what do I do?

Which package manager were you using to update it? Apt-get? Oh wait, you're still in the primitive Stone Age times of each app updating itself tediously.

Another satisfied Microsoft customer??

Any answer other than "Libre Office messed up the update process" is why Apple has too much money while the open source geeks are perceived as smelly losers.

Smelly loser, n., 1: Someone whose first priority in life is not pleasing you. That's the problem here, hence your bitchy tone. If you don't like something, don't use it and quit your bitching. If the free software disappoints you, I will personally give you a full refund, how's that?

Try to use Writer as anything more than a notepad? Forget it. I loaded our company's template that uses heading styles. It already had four headings which Writer numbers automatically 1 2 3 4. Fine. So I add another heading, expecting it to be "5". Is it 5? Of course not. Writer numbers my new heading as "2" with not a damn thing I can do about it. Does no one check the code for basic things here?

You submitted a bug report advising the developers how they can reproduce this bug, right? No? Oh then you're just bitching.

Try to use the export as PDF? You better check that PDF because if you think that in 2012 we are 20 years beyond WYSIWYG, think again. Export as PDF exported a mess with every single letter replaced with various-sized dots. Jesus wept, my Commodore 64 running GEOS outperforms that. And don't you DARE say there's something wring with my system becasue using a PDF print driver worked flawlessly.

Yes, don't you DARE do that, because that would mean you failed, and clearly that's absurd! Oh wait, here I go: there's something wrong with your system. *GASP*

Seriously dude, that function works fine on mine. Just tried it to check and it works. Works on mine, doesn't work on yours. Ok, maybe it's not your system. I think this is one of those PEBKAC errors, or maybe an "eye-dee-ten-tee" error. Obviously your calm, level-headed, dispassionate approach to problem-solving has produced the wonderful outcome you are experiencing, and I'd be a fool to think otherwise.

ID10T

Re: OK, so can we stop bitching? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39167785)

Wow, the definition of butthurt. Linux reality distortion field go!

Re: OK, so can we stop bitching? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39167801)

Wow, the definition of butthurt. Linux reality distortion field go!

No, butthurt is when you use something you don't like so you can bitch about it. Butthurt is when you think you're entitled to something you did not pay for and didn't contribute to.

I don't bitch about Microsoft Office. You know why? Because I don't use it. You see, I don't like it very much. So I don't use it. But that means nothing to bitch about. That's just the end of the world for assholes like you and that other guy.

Re:OK, so now can we start making it usable? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39167609)

What are YOU going to do about it? you sound as if the libre office project (and Intel????) owes you something because you deign to use it. It is the other way around.

I use libreoffice extensively for a variety of things, and regard it as one of the best bits of software you can get. Sure it has a few niggles, but it is very powerfull, and LibreOffice has done a good job of tackling the issues inherited from openoffice.

Re:OK, so now can we start making it usable? (1)

westlake (615356) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167907)

What are YOU going to do about it? you sound as if the libre office project owes you something because you deign to use it. It is the other way around.

It is this attitude that puts billions of dollars in the pockets of Apple and Microsoft each quarter.

The mega corp funds open source projects to advance its own interests. When a project doesn't measure up to the user's expectations the cord is cut.

Re:OK, so now can we start making it usable? (2, Informative)

SplashMyBandit (1543257) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168107)

Nope. Microsoft Office is used because they made it the de-facto document standard with their ever-changing proproetary formats. How did it get to be so prevalent, well, for starters Microsoft was able to use undocumented functions to make Office run faster than its competitors. Plus, they had information about upcoming releases of the operating system well before any competitors had it - so that gave the Office team a good head start. The funny thing is that much of the Office functionality actually didn't come from Microsoft - the products were acquired and then integrated into the Office suite.

Re:OK, so now can we start making it usable? (1)

retchdog (1319261) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168305)

you're both right. but, unless the linux kernel and x.org have s3kr1t apis that libreoffice can't use, this argument is a bit thin... i've started from scratch with both libreoffice and office2007, and arguing that libreoffice is functionally better in any way (apart from supporting an open standard) is ridiculous. personally, i even preferred running office2007 on cxoffice to running libreoffice natively. please leave the "secret optimizations" argument back in the 1990s.

Re:OK, so now can we start making it usable? (2)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 2 years ago | (#39169303)

Oh please! learn your damned history...puppies, geez. MS Office became the de facto standard because what WAS the former de facto standard, that was WordPerfect, thought their shite didn't have an aroma and therefor put out a lame as hell DOS port for Windows which puked and died more than it ran and since it was really designed for a single tasking OS pretty much anything and everything could get its memory stomped on by WP and crash, including the OS. Word back then was fairly basic but it DID run and didn't chew the documents all to pieces when it crapped itself. BTW the original Star Office was released about this time and for its first couple of releases was a real pig with regards to memory was what you really did NOT want on the RAM starved machines of the day.

So learn your history kid, many times MSFT has ended up winning not by trickery, not by skill, but simply because their competition made some seriously boneheaded move and MSFT was able to capitalize on their mistake. Two great examples are the above WP and Netscape which frankly put out a giant rotting turd known as Netscape 4 which was so bloated and soooo buggy frankly anybody could have beaten it just by coming up with something that didn't crash constantly.

MS Office is now de facto because despite the myriad of boneheaded moves by the company they have been pretty good about leaving the Office guys alone instead of pushing for "vertical integration synergy" and all that other PHB crap. because of this I can open docs from 1997 in office 2K7 and they look fine and save without puking, try that with a OO.o 1.0 file and find out how quickly LO chokes on that old crap.

Re:OK, so now can we start making it usable? (1)

50000BTU_barbecue (588132) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168945)

You make it sound like I owe my time to Libre Office when they can't even count 1 2 3 4 5. It's the other way around. You deign to release an office suite? Test the fucker first.

Re:OK, so now can we start making it usable? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39167743)

1) What version are you updating from and what version too? This should be fine if you are using the latest version but there is a known bug with 3.4.4 and earlier that interferes with the update, you need to un-install the old version or update to 3.4.5 or later first. This is documented in the "Most annoying bugs " section on the release page.

2) Is this a .doc or worse a .docx file? There are problems importing from different file types, using templates made in an un-documented format without correcting them after import is and finding they do not work right says noting about the features of the office suite at all. It sounds like you saved it as a docx try making a .doc version for import, and touch it up and save as an odf version before production use. It is true that this can make LiberOfice unusable in some situations especially inside Microsoft office heavy enterprises but you should not try to pretend that it makes the other features of LibereOfice writer vanish. There are even situations when it makes Microsoft Word look bad, it is still much more reliable for long documents than word for instance.

3) I have never had this problem, which version did you have this issue with, have you filed a bug?

Re:OK, so now can we start making it usable? (2, Interesting)

aztektum (170569) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167889)

Perhaps you'd have more luck paying Microsoft for the privilege of dealing with compatibility problems version to version (or even same version, diff desktop).

Your three complaints don't quite go far enough to suggest it truly is an "unusable mess". You're bitching that it didn't work with your companies custom template? And PDF export didn't work for you. I've exported to PDF many times without any problems. Maybe what your exporting is the problem (perhaps another custom template your company uses)?

I have deployed both Office 2k3-2k10 and Open/LibreOffice at businesses. User complaints were pretty much even. No one has the perfect office suite out there. Being a free software product, LibreOffice is pretty damn good.

Instead of whining about how free software developers have failed to provide you with free software that works exactly as you require, why not work with them to solve them?

Re:OK, so now can we start making it usable? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39167915)

Sorry there chump. Your post only highlights your magnificent stupidity.

We have 600+ desktops using LibreOffice and NONE of the issues you mention have ever been seen. Our power users use Writer to manage 600+ page manuals in a Master/subdocument format with various teams managing different subdocuments independently all of which gets pulled into the master document automagically and spit out to a pdf without any issue.

The problem here is not Libreoffice, it is the retard that does not know how to use his tools.

Douchebag.

Re:OK, so now can we start making it usable? (5, Insightful)

SplashMyBandit (1543257) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168051)

Actually, among my other hats I'm a trained Technical Writer (in the superb Information Mapping methodology). I actually prefer LibreOffice to MS Word for just getting things done. LibreOffice doesn't has all the bells and whistles that MS Office does, and has the occasional glitch but MS Office is just painful to use. It's slow, it crashes a lot, I have to wrestle with it to get what I want done. I'm afraid I can't agree with your assessment. MS Office is worse than LibreOffice, at least for professional work. At the high end I wouldn't even use MS Office, Acrobat is much better, and beyond that is TeX/LaTeX (for pro-level typesetting). MS Word really is for n00bs that don't know much better and whinge if the interface doesn't look exactly like the version of MS Word they got their training on.

Oh, and complaining that a MS Word template doesn't work perfectly in LibreOffice is fairly lame. If you want to use Word templates you should pay for Word. How about you make a template for LibreOffice instead? - if you actually have the skill to do such a thing.

At least LibreOffice can display Word files, even a little junkily. Most versions of Word do an even worse job with Word files from different Word versions, and besides Word being so retarded it can barely deal with its own format it certainly can't deal with the formats of any other product (the bigger the organisation is, the more likely it is that they have critical systems that aren't Windows in addition to Windows desktops - but Microsoft want to pretend that this is not reality for the sake of their own business interests). If the person that made the company Word templates had instead made Open Document Format templates then things would have worked pretty sweetly for you, not matter whether you had used LibreOffice, OpenOffice or one of the other alternatives that use the (true) ISO standard format. It's just you are so inculcated with the Microsoft monoculture (you're certainly not alone in this) you blame LibreOffice for getting Microsoft's proprietary formats wrong (and Microsoft's ISO standardisation was a blatantly corrupt process and produced a 'standard' that is woefully underspecified). Please assign the blame where it is due, on Microsoft's proprietary doorstep.

Re:OK, so now can we start making it usable? (2)

pz (113803) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168773)

I use LibreOffice frequently. The one misfeature that is beyond annoying is subscripts. They, subscripts, happen pretty frequently in my field, and there's a long-standing bug with LibreOffice / OpenOffice saving documents that have subscripts as DOC formatted files. LibreOffice / OpenOffice gets it wrong, just plain wrong. Sure, those folks did a pretty good job at reverse-engineering the file format, but holy dotted I, Batman it's enough to make the ganglia twitch on that one bug. Save the file as ODT, no problems. Save it as DOC, and the subscript formatting information gets thoroughly wonked, and. there. is. no. work-around., I. have. tried. frelling. everything. Since my documents are often collaborative efforts with other people who use MS Word, saving to anything other than DOC (or DOCX) is not a viable option. And that's one of the many reasons I have two computers on my desk: one runs Windows for a small handful of programs that only run properly under Windows, and one runs Linux for everything else.

Re:OK, so now can we start making it usable? (1)

SplashMyBandit (1543257) | more than 2 years ago | (#39169399)

VMWare or the free VirtualBox may be your friend in this case. Easy to run 'proper' Windows in a Virtual Machine and then you just have to have on machine on your desk :)

Re:OK, so now can we start making it usable? (3, Interesting)

50000BTU_barbecue (588132) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168923)

Who said it was a MS Word template? Making stuff up is pretty lame too. It was a odt template, FYI.

Re:OK, so now can we start making it usable? (1)

caseih (160668) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168129)

Please give more information. Items 1 and 3 are somewhat self-explanatory (even if I've never experienced the same problems), but as someone who regularly uses LO for things more than a notepad (including styles and headings and such) I don't understand your explanation of the headings problem. Please provide more information. Are you talking about outline numbering (#.#.#.#.# blah)? Or does this really come down to a MS Office compatibility thing? I'm certain LO supports the kind of headings you talk about. Maybe it doesn't translate them as well as it should from MS Office.

PDF export has worked for everything I've thrown at it so far. Fonts, everything looked right (not sure if the fonts get embedded though) for normally used fonts.

As for LO being a mess, well use what works for you. For me LO works very well, and I've done some fairly fancy templating with it. Though sometimes it's so much like MS Office that I swear I'm going to break down and learn LaTeX for doing anything other than a letter.

Re:OK, so now can we start making it usable? (1)

flyingfsck (986395) | more than 2 years ago | (#39169041)

There is something VERY wrong with your system.

Re:OK, so now can we start making it usable? (2)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 2 years ago | (#39169253)

You forgot 4) Trying to edit and share files with the new generations is a mess. What I mean by new generations is those that use the ribbon. The ribbon, or as i like to call it "The divider of young and old" as the young love it and the old hate it, has caused folks to become a little more...shall we say artsy fartsy? I personally blame that quick mouse over preview that lets folks go through every combo in less than a minute.

So what you get is funky fonts with headers and footers and everything else they think looks slick. Try opening, editing, and saving back into .doc using LO and you are gonna get word salad as it does NOT like all the new Office artsy fartsy crap. this is fine if its Suzy sending a recipe to her mom, she can always tone it down and send again. if this doc could mean the difference between a job or a contract and not? Well you can't afford to have the thing mangled as it just doesn't look professional, it looks mickey mouse.

Don't get me wrong, I think LO has made great strides and does have its place, for example all home users that come through my shop get LO if they don't have MS Office because for the kinds of things home users are doing, writing down recipes or little Billy working on a paper he is gonna have to print? works beautifully there, no complaints at all. But as people go more nuts with fonts and bling bling crap LO really doesn't have an easy go of it. Sure if you hand it a standard TNR font with nothing fancy it does great, but once the bling starts getting added its chances of rendering and saving correctly go waaaay down, at least from what i saw.

Signal to Microsoft? (1)

sprior (249994) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167571)

If I were a cynical guy I'd take this as Intel giving Microsoft's cash cow the FU salute after Microsoft said Windows 8 would run on Arm based tablets. Good thing I'm not a cynical person - oh, wait...

Re:Signal to Microsoft? (1)

causality (777677) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167697)

If I were a cynical guy I'd take this as Intel giving Microsoft's cash cow the FU salute after Microsoft said Windows 8 would run on Arm based tablets. Good thing I'm not a cynical person - oh, wait...

Assuming that many people are petty and vindictive is not cynicism, it's realism, so long as you remain open to any exceptions you should encounter.

Having said that, if your suspicion is correct and Microsoft is on the receiving end of some corporate vindictiveness, well, it couldn't have happened to a better company. They may be tame these days as they slide towards irrelevancy, but they also have 25 years of bad karma to catch up with.

Re:Signal to Microsoft? (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39167759)

~yawn~

I've heard this line for at least a decade.

And yet, even after all this time, I still haven't seen anyone state a compelling reason as to why it's true. What did Microsoft do that was so "evil"? Please enlighten me.

Meanwhile, Google is sniffing your wireless network as their cars drive by, making your address book public to promote Buzz, and changing their privacy policies to benefit their data-mining AFTER you have already signed up for various separate services. yet it's only Microsoft that is OMG SO EVIL THEY MUST DIE.

Re:Signal to Microsoft? (3, Informative)

causality (777677) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168103)

And yet, even after all this time, I still haven't seen anyone state a compelling reason as to why it's true. What did Microsoft do that was so "evil"? Please enlighten me.

You're just as capable of brushing up on Microsoft's history since the late 1980s as I am. The gist of it would take only a few minutes of your time. Your participation here leads me to assume you are literate, so I refuse to spoon-feed you. If you can't be bothered to inform yourself about a topic that's not remotely obscure, then recuse yourself from this discussion like a respectable person.

Meanwhile, Google is sniffing your wireless network as their cars drive by, making your address book public to promote Buzz, and changing their privacy policies to benefit their data-mining AFTER you have already signed up for various separate services. yet it's only Microsoft that is OMG SO EVIL THEY MUST DIE.

Oh I see, you're using the most childish "logic" available: Entity X did something REALLY BAD, so anything bad that Entity Y does is A-OK!

I didn't mention Google at all, neither positive nor negative, because Google was not being discussed. If you have a fixation on Google, it is yours. Look, if this is a religious conviction or article of faith for you, just say so. That's fine and you're entitled to it. Dressing it up like it's a rational argument is what makes you sound like a spoiled child.

Re:Signal to Microsoft? (1, Troll)

SplashMyBandit (1543257) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168185)

Just because Google is evil doesn't make Microsoft less evil. It just makes them both evil. A trivial perusal of the Web would bring up information about why Microsoft is considered evil. Here is a light selection of keywords for you to start your research with: anti-trust; illegal use of monopoly; linux is cancer; ISO document standard bribery; Open Document Format vs OpenXML; licensing of MFC to crunch Borland and promote MFC over (the vastly superior) OWL; payment of computer manufacturers to bundle Windows instead of open competition; removal of Linux from Asus Eee; deliberatly hobbling OpenGL on Windows; deliberately hobbing POSIX-compliance on Windows (Windows needs POSIX for US Government contracts); deliberately hobbling Java on Windows (which Microsoft lost a court case against Sun over - but the tactic worked long enough for Microsoft to derive the essentially Windows-only C# and the .NET platform from Java and the JVM); Microsoft's attempts in the mid-90's to stiffle the open Internet by promoting NetBUI etc instead of open protocols (something they had to do a volte face about); trying to tie the open internet to Windows through ActiveX and Internet Explorer 6 proprietary extensions (which Bill Gates also famously lied about saying IE could not be removed from the O/S); I could go on but it ought to be enough if you have been paying attention for the last two decades. No one would mind if Microsoft competed hard but fairly. The truth is they don't - they use all sorts of morally shady tactics - which makes them evil. For that matter, neither do Apple. Apple is at least as bad as Microsoft, but at least Apple stuff (mostly) works a lot better. But just because Google and Apple are also evil does not make Microsoft any less evil.

Re:Signal to Microsoft? (0)

causality (777677) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168613)

Just because Google is evil doesn't make Microsoft less evil. It just makes them both evil. A trivial perusal of the Web would bring up information about why Microsoft is considered evil. Here is a light selection of keywords for you to start your research with: anti-trust; illegal use of monopoly; linux is cancer; ISO document standard bribery; Open Document Format vs OpenXML; licensing of MFC to crunch Borland and promote MFC over (the vastly superior) OWL; payment of computer manufacturers to bundle Windows instead of open competition; removal of Linux from Asus Eee; deliberatly hobbling OpenGL on Windows; deliberately hobbing POSIX-compliance on Windows (Windows needs POSIX for US Government contracts); deliberately hobbling Java on Windows (which Microsoft lost a court case against Sun over - but the tactic worked long enough for Microsoft to derive the essentially Windows-only C# and the .NET platform from Java and the JVM); Microsoft's attempts in the mid-90's to stiffle the open Internet by promoting NetBUI etc instead of open protocols (something they had to do a volte face about); trying to tie the open internet to Windows through ActiveX and Internet Explorer 6 proprietary extensions (which Bill Gates also famously lied about saying IE could not be removed from the O/S); I could go on but it ought to be enough if you have been paying attention for the last two decades. No one would mind if Microsoft competed hard but fairly. The truth is they don't - they use all sorts of morally shady tactics - which makes them evil. For that matter, neither do Apple. Apple is at least as bad as Microsoft, but at least Apple stuff (mostly) works a lot better. But just because Google and Apple are also evil does not make Microsoft any less evil.

I believe I already shut him up and he has already chosen to slink away and find someone more emotional and less reasonable to try his little routine on. People like him are all show and cannot respond to a legitimate challenge; they can only irritate and obfuscate. Someone who sees through that is the last thing they want to deal with so they suddenly shut up and disappear, though I am almost certain he read my response (and yours as well). His article of faith demands it.

All the same, your post is a good reference and must have taken a bit of effort to put together (less effort to write those, more effort to pick them from a much larger list). Even if little nothing-human-beings like him are incapable of appreciating it, I certainly did. I appreciate anyone who cares about the facts and isn't a total mindless slave to his personal feelings about them.

Re:Signal to Microsoft? (0)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 2 years ago | (#39169349)

Citation please on " removal of Linux from Asus Eee"? Because as someone who has hung around the EEE forums for awhile i Googled that and only found people asking how to remove Linux from a EEE, no MSFT there. What I heard is that Xandros simply ran out of funds and couldn't continue development, look on their website or distrowatch and you'll see their last release was in 2009. Can't blame Asus for not wanting to sell a unit with an abandoned OS on it, can you?

They're not evil (1)

tbird81 (946205) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168935)

Microsoft isn't evil. Google isn't evil.

They are companies and want to make money.

Apple is evil - as they are a religion.

Re:Signal to Microsoft? (1)

flyingfsck (986395) | more than 2 years ago | (#39169069)

"What did Microsoft do that was so "evil"? Please enlighten me." Welcome caveman. MS got about 3 Billion Dollars in fines and ruined/hurt many small companies such as Corel, Stax, Trumpet, Mozaic and many more while you were hibernating.

Re:Signal to Microsoft? (2)

symbolset (646467) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167727)

On a related note, Intel's first smartphone [techcrunch.com] runs... Android. Apparently Intel has finally got the memo. I wish them luck.

Re:Signal to Microsoft? (2)

SplashMyBandit (1543257) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168197)

Not much surprise there. Intel contribute a lot of development effort to Linux. Android is the marketing name of a customised version of Java on Linux. Should not be a surprise that Intel went down this road. You are right, this is a good thing and I also hope they are successful with it.

Re:Signal to Microsoft? (5, Informative)

symbolset (646467) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168483)

Not much surprise there. Intel contribute a lot of development effort to Linux. Android is the marketing name of a customised version of Java on Linux. Should not be a surprise that Intel went down this road. You are right, this is a good thing and I also hope they are successful with it.

Android is not "a customized version of Java". Please avoid confusing people with this phrasing as Java is a trademark owned by Oracle and Oracle is trying to say that Android is Java when it's not so as to get billions of dollars out of Google and incidentally kill Android. The word "Java" by itself is taken to mean an operating environment similar to the Android operating environment, but they are separately sourced and not the same thing.

Android is an operating system that uses the Linux kernel. It uses a virtual machine system called Dalvik which is incompatible with Java virtual machines and bytecode applications. Android runs programs typically written in the Java Programming Language (the free language specification, not the copyrighted operating environment) but these programs are compiled to Java operating environment-incompatible Davik bytecode and linked to non-Java Android libraries. Android uses certain public Application Programming Interfaces in common with Java, for the convenience and familiarity of developers.

Android also runs native applications written in C, C++ and a number of other programming languages linked both against the Android libraries and other development libraries in the "Native Development Kit". Android has some similarities to Java, as Linux has some similarities to Unix - but Android is not, has never been, and will never be "Java" any more than Linux has ever been or ever will be "Unix".

Re:Signal to Microsoft? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39167963)

Don't be cynical. I am the guy that has substiantial and EXTREMELY succesful Libreoffice deployments in the field with some very sophisticated document management going on with regular and power users. Half on Windows half on Linux depending on client site.

Microsoft Office is not going anywhere for the same reason the religion is not going anywhere: once the wetware between users ears fo retards sitting in front of computers is INDOCTRINATED into one way of thinking they are (typically) stuck in that frame of mind for the rest of their lives.

It is the nature of culture and beleif that keeps people shackled to Microsoft Offices and Macs or the world, and no amount of reason, good will or engineering will change that.

Well, not true exactly as I have enough pull and credibility with clients to direct and influence the wetware enough to affect change. Change on an individual level or even a cultural level that does not have a structure with strong thoughtleaders that value reasion and rational problem solving stand no chance of seeing change.

Re:Signal to Microsoft? (1)

sprior (249994) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168159)

I've found that people who are not technical don't necessarily realize that Microsoft Office is a separate product from Microsoft Windows - they've never seen one without the other.

Actual press release (5, Informative)

Zarmvenius (321933) | more than 2 years ago | (#39167981)

Here's the actual Document Foundation press release, without the adverts and typos:
http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2012/02/23/the-document-foundation-announces-libreoffice-for-windows-from-suse-is-now-available-in-intel-appupsm-center/

libreoffice usability (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39168095)

another comment: try printing a text box with thick borders in LibreOffice ... shows on screen ok but when printed the corners are broken ... export to PDF and print it and works fine. In OpenOffice the options are more limited but the print of bordered text boxes is OK. Surprised no-one has noticed this.

How carefully did Intel think about this? (3, Interesting)

Strange Attractor (18957) | more than 2 years ago | (#39168499)

I've been watching Intel since the 1970's, and I've been impressed with their technical skill and business judgment. I didn't like what the Wintel duopoly did for computing/science/culture, but it made Intel rich. When Andy Grove canned employees at Intel Supercomputing for using Apples, I took it to mean that he believed that his company's future was tied to Microsoft.

Do you think the decision to join LibreOffice was made at the highest level at Intel? If so, I think it is an important shift.

scatterplots in excel (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39168573)

I do a lot of scatterplots in excel, and I have tried OO several times.
each time, I conclude that scatterplots, and similar stuff, does'nt work as well inOOas in excel (and lord knows, excel has its share of problems
i'm not saying ms is good; just that for what i do , it is better then oo

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