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Paypal Forces E-Book Publisher To Censor Erotic Content

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the all-about-the-benjamins dept.

Censorship 301

hey! writes "On February 18 of this year, global giant payment processor PayPal sent eBook publisher Smashwords an ultimatum: if Smashwords didn't remove all eBooks with certain erotic content from its catalog in the next several days, PayPal would immediately stop handling payments. Smashword's TOS already precluded child pornography, but now PayPal wants them to also censor depictions of consenting, non-related adults acting out incest fantasies. Likewise, fantasy novels in which human characters transform into non-humans are affected if those characters have sex. ZDNet has a summary of the impact of these changes, which would among other things ban Vladmir Nabokov's Lolita. As outrage mounts, finger pointing is in full swing. Smashwords blames PayPal, and PayPal blames the banks it deals with. The crux seems to be that erotica buyers have a higher rate of 'chargebacks' — customers who buy stuff then demand their money back. Fair enough, but is a customer really more likely to return a book because it depicts one kind of fantasy between consenting adults vs. another? Perhaps the problem is just the quality of writing." Note: as you can probably tell from the summary, the linked articles (while factual in nature) discuss subjects that may not be suitable for workplace reading.

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It's not enough... (5, Insightful)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 2 years ago | (#39189693)

It's not enough that you want unfettered access to remove funds at whim from my bank account. Now you want to decide what I read too? Yet another reason to NOT use Paypal ever...

The man who fell to Earth? (3, Interesting)

AliasMarlowe (1042386) | more than 2 years ago | (#39189949)

Did they also request removal of works with aliens who turn into humans and have sex with real humans?
It's been used in a Hollywood movie [wikipedia.org] .

Re:The man who fell to Earth? (5, Insightful)

SJHillman (1966756) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190165)

What about gods that merely look human having sex with humans? There goes half of the ancient mythologies.

Re:The man who fell to Earth? (5, Interesting)

Gerzel (240421) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190335)

Or gods as animals having sex with humans. (Looking at you Zeus)

Re:It's not enough... (4, Funny)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190197)

Absolutely. Who are they to determine what is and what's not allowed. Who do they thing they are, Apple?

Re:It's not enough... (2)

Tyr07 (2300912) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190247)

If so many people didn't "use" the content until a sudden "drop in hormones" then demand a refund it wouldn't be an issue.
Don't blame paypal, blame people who abuse the system.

(I worked for an ISP once who also provided cable, lot of people wanted to refund adult content if their night didn't turn out as planned, or after watching 3 minutes of it if you know what I mean)

Re:It's not enough... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39190257)

Wait until they hear about furries (anthropomorphic humanoid beings). And if you're disgusted by this, let me remind you that you are yourself an ape furry, just more evolved.

Re:It's not enough... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39190603)

When I grow a tail, a hard chest and fur all over my body, then that thinking applies, till then, furries are still sick fucks.

Re:It's not enough... (0)

masternerdguy (2468142) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190413)

whats funny is that youre all angry here but you got mad when "adult" apps were allowed on the blackberry. slashdot double standards.

Re:It's not enough... (2)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190461)

Slashdot is not one person, there are many people with many ideas. I think all application stores should allow adult applications.

Re:It's not enough... (1)

Moheeheeko (1682914) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190503)

apps != literature.

Re:It's not enough... (3, Informative)

Travelsonic (870859) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190533)

*yawn* Another moronic attempt to create a false contradiction that ignores the fact that SLASHDOT IS NOT ONE FUCKING ENTITY, BUT A GROUP OF POEPLE WITH DIFFERING OPINONS, dipshit.

Re:It's not enough... (4, Insightful)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190463)

Force your control on a man and he'll revolt. Sell your control to a man and he'll purchase, embrace and defend it.

Will this kill Twilight? (4, Funny)

forkfail (228161) | more than 2 years ago | (#39189697)

Likewise, fantasy novels in which human characters transform into non-humans are affected if those characters have sex.

Please?

Re:Will this kill Twilight? (2)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 2 years ago | (#39189759)

Hhhmmm... I may have to rethink my whole "Paypal is the root of all evil" theme...

Re:Will this kill Twilight? (1)

snowgirl (978879) | more than 2 years ago | (#39189801)

Likewise, fantasy novels in which human characters transform into non-humans are affected if those characters have sex.

Please?

If ever there were a good time to actually care about Pants [theoatmeal.com] picking Edward over Jacob... I got with Team WhichEverIsTheWerewolfSoWeCanGetItBanned.

Re:Will this kill Twilight? (2)

dougisfunny (1200171) | more than 2 years ago | (#39189987)

Vampires aren't human either. So either way it would qualify.

Re:Will this kill Twilight? (3, Insightful)

snowgirl (978879) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190071)

Vampires aren't human either. So either way it would qualify.

Eh... I don't seen Human-Vampire sex freaking people out as much as Human-Wolf sex...

I mean, technically you're totally right, but I think that the intent of the wording was to remove a loophole they were using to avoid "bestiality", by making the animal secretly a human. And few people would consider Human-Vampire sex bestiality...

Re:Will this kill Twilight? (1)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190501)

And few people would consider Human-Vampire sex bestiality...

Ewwww, bats.

Re:Will this kill Twilight? (1)

PPH (736903) | more than 2 years ago | (#39189827)

Or Species [imdb.com] ?

Re:Will this kill Twilight? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39189883)

Likewise, fantasy novels in which human characters transform into non-humans are affected if those characters have sex.

Go on [mylittlefacewhen.com] ...

Please?

Wait, what [masemware.com] ? First of all, I don't even know how the vampires got into her in the first place. Second, now you know why fan fiction [youtube.com] scares the living shit out of me!

Re:Will this kill Twilight? (4, Insightful)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 2 years ago | (#39189955)

Not only that, but I heard that a 100-year-old man has sex with a teenage girl in those books.

Re:Will this kill Twilight? (5, Funny)

medcalf (68293) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190029)

Ah, Twilight, a sweet romance about the choice between and bestiality and necrophilia.

Re:Will this kill Twilight? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39190221)

Pretty please?

first (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39189703)

Why?

ok, return the funds (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39189721)

OK PayPal, make sure you return funds to their source if you are unwilling to process the transaction.
Betcha they won't

First they come for this... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39189731)

Shit like this is basically thinly veiled bigotry. It usually starts with this, but then they come for gay romance [journalfen.net] , trying to get rid of every type of romance they don't like. Y'know, because anything that isn't heterosexual intercourse between cisgender white people is icky.

More likely to return? YES (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39189743)

Does anyone really doubt that if you purchased a book that fantasizes incest.. and ANYONE else finds out about it, the first words from your mouth are: "my card was stolen"

And we might not be talking about a huge increase. Virtually all merchant accounts say they can drop you if your chargeback rate is above 1%. So the real question is, will 1% of people lie about their purchase of incest-fantasizing books? Definitely.

Re:More likely to return? YES (5, Funny)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 2 years ago | (#39189823)

Does anyone really doubt that if you purchased a book that fantasizes incest.. and ANYONE else finds out about it, the first words from your mouth are: "my card was stolen"

Unless it's your sister who finds out... ;)

Re:More likely to return? YES (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39189909)

I could mention Alabama, but I won't.

Re:More likely to return? YES (3, Funny)

gnick (1211984) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190053)

I could mention Alabama, but I won't.

I think you forgot how not to mention Alabama...

Re:More likely to return? YES (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39190199)

I won't say I told you so

Wouldn't that include the Game of Thrones books? (5, Insightful)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 2 years ago | (#39189747)

PayPal wants them to also censor depictions of consenting, non-related adults acting out incest fantasies.

Someone better tell George Martin not to use Paypal.

Re:Wouldn't that include the Game of Thrones books (4, Insightful)

forkfail (228161) | more than 2 years ago | (#39189797)

And Shakespeare.

A Midsummer's Night's Dream anyone?

Re:Wouldn't that include the Game of Thrones books (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39190561)

What about selling the christian bible? Why do they get a free pass to depict consenting (and non-consenting) non-related (and related) adults (and children) performing incest and other sexual acts.

I'm pretty certain there is even a story of a guy who has sex and later turns from a human to non-human, although I can't recall right now which.
Technically it is also in the wrong order (sex then change to non-human, not change to non-human and then have sex)

We already know PayPal wants to ban all the classic literature, as well as any and all literature not sold through a publisher house that is one of their customers... But I want to see them piss off the entire nation of Christians!
*grabs the popcorn to watch*

Re:Wouldn't that include the Game of Thrones books (5, Insightful)

HellKnite (266374) | more than 2 years ago | (#39189889)

The Song of Ice and Fire series is fine, because it's not "non-related adults acting out incest fantasies" ... it's actual incest!

Re:Wouldn't that include the Game of Thrones books (1)

forkfail (228161) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190307)

It has an incestuous brother selling his pre-teen sister (after some rather violent fondling and other forms of abuse) to a Mongolian horde style war chief.

Which is probably about right for the pre-industrial / quasi-pre-literary society being described.

But also probably offensive to many, and probably against the pay-pal (and Amazon, for that matter) TOS.

Re:Wouldn't that include the Game of Thrones books (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39189929)

Thankfully, it will have no effect on A Song of Ice and Fire... for you see, the two of which you speak are actually related.

Re:Wouldn't that include the Game of Thrones books (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39189965)

wait, i might be misreading your syntax but how do "non-related" adults act out the "incest"?

Werewolves (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39189753)

Wow.

I recently read a bunch of werewolf fantasy-erotica stuff from Smashwords It was actually pretty damn vanilla and seemed to be targeted towards sexually inexperienced female teens/young adults. Sex only took place in human form.

This would be banned according to these rules, yet I've read far more graphic and dark/disturbing stuff that would be considered OK.

Are PayPal and associated banks owned by religious puritans now?

Bitcoin! (5, Funny)

stevegee58 (1179505) | more than 2 years ago | (#39189767)

Everybody switch to bitcoin and put these losers outta business!

Re:Bitcoin! (0)

conspirator23 (207097) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190109)

Okay smartypants, I'd be happy to oblige. Do you think you could put your entrepeneurship where your mouth is and become an e-book retailer that accepts Bitcoin? You know, for something other than your own poetry, maybe even written by folks we've heard of before?

No? Incapable or unwilling to help foster a legitimate Bitcoin economy? Then please crawl back into the magical-thinking-hole you came from.

Re:Bitcoin! (3, Insightful)

ultranova (717540) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190129)

Everybody switch to bitcoin and put these losers outta business!

Or wire transfer, or money orders, or checks, or credit cards, or cash in an envelope...

I've never really understood what role PayPal plays. It's like a bank, but apparently not covered with any kind of regulations nor in fact any laws at all, with a reputation for stopping payments and confiscating money on your account on a whim. I can't think of a scenario where it wouldn't be the worst possible option for everyone involved. So why do people use it?

But yeah, Bitcoin would be ideal, especially since proof of payment stays available as long as the network lasts. I don't think it can stabilize and become widely-accepted, however, especially since any sign it is becoming so would threaten every bank in existence.

Re:Bitcoin! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39190581)

So why do people use it?

eBay. Unfortunately. My stuff never gets any takers on other sites.

Y'know, I haven't actually had any problems yet, but I'm still so paranoid about paypal that I make a new account every time I need to sell something on ebay, and close it as soon as the money lands in my bank. I have a lot of old savings accounts which can receive paypal funds, but not be debited, so I tell paypal to withdraw to these each time. The bank accounts can get closed if there is any sign of trouble, but there hasn't been any so far (fingers crossed)

Do not use paypal. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39189769)

Do not use paypal for anything at all, ever. This was made abundantly clear what, 10 years ago?

No sympathy from me.

Oblig (3, Funny)

fiannaFailMan (702447) | more than 2 years ago | (#39189781)

Down with this sort of thing!

It's in Paypal's nature. Just stop using them. (5, Interesting)

Eldragon (163969) | more than 2 years ago | (#39189829)

I deleted my Paypal account six outrages ago.

Every week I read about how some small business got burned by Paypal. However I have yet to encounter any business willing to drop Paypal and use the competition.

Petitions and strongly worded blog posts will not change Paypal's behavior. Only thing that matters is lost business.

Re:It's in Paypal's nature. Just stop using them. (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#39189903)

I deleted my Paypal account six outrages ago.

Every week I read about how some small business got burned by Paypal. However I have yet to encounter any business willing to drop Paypal and use the competition.

Petitions and strongly worded blog posts will not change Paypal's behavior. Only thing that matters is lost business.

How about eBay sellers getting burned? You state No Returns, No Refunds and somehow they decide you have to take the return because someone is a big whiner who cries all over the place (this after sniping the auction in the dying seconds - like they took any time at all to read the page.)

Also wondering how eBay continues to get away with the practice of only accepting payment through PayPal in a near monopoly, but that's another story.

Re:It's in Paypal's nature. Just stop using them. (2)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190001)

Also wondering how eBay continues to get away with the practice of only accepting payment through PayPal in a near monopoly, but that's another story.

It is how I found Craigslist, and Amazon used, and so on... I do not miss eBay. I liked it, but I will NEVER use Paypal.

Re:It's in Paypal's nature. Just stop using them. (1)

Eldragon (163969) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190057)

I lump eBay sellers as small businesses... very small businesses with a very small inventory. :-P

I too hate the Paypal only nature of eBay. These days if I want something off eBay (which is now rare, thanks to Paypal) I contact the seller and offer to mail them a check.

Re:It's in Paypal's nature. Just stop using them. (2)

AK Marc (707885) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190205)

Monopolies are allowed in the US. eBay/PayPal abusing the dominant status of one to push the other is just fine. And you can't get tour insurance if you don't pay the Ticketmaster Tax, another obvious and blatant monopoly engaging in abusive practices. But nothing will ever come from that. Monopolies are encouraged.

Take your business elsewhere (1)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | more than 2 years ago | (#39189835)

I know that this is a common theme here and it's used way too much here, but this is a case where you can and have to vote with your feet.

This meme is popular at slashdot but I don't personally always buy it. Too many corporations have too much control of the marketplace. Paypal/ebay itself has too much control in how ebay auctions are paid for and in terms of online auction you don't really have a great group of alternatives when it comes to online auctions with a big audience. But this is porn. It's a commodity. It's descriptions of variations of the same group of actions. With this you can tell paypal to shove it and go with someone that really wants your business.

Re:Take your business elsewhere (3, Interesting)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190017)

Actually, it was the other way around not too long ago. With the first Humble Indie Bundle, there was still some piracy. Unlike the usual execs, the people behind it asked why? The largest response was because they inly took Paypal. Now they take Amazon and Google Checkout as well. Yep... Boycotts work.

When asked to comment (3, Funny)

tmosley (996283) | more than 2 years ago | (#39189841)

When asked to comment, Paypal representatives responded, "If you don't like it, you can yiff in Hell".

Re:When asked to comment (3, Insightful)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190039)

That would imply that someone actually read an e-mail to paypal, and not just the automated system. I don't believe it.

Re:When asked to comment (3, Funny)

tmosley (996283) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190531)

I think that is in their standard form letter for their complaints department.

Chargebacks or Refunds due to Fraud? (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#39189859)

It would certainly be a difference.

Friends had their CC number copied some how and got home to find $3,500 in pr0n charges were suddenly on it. Guess it got passed around a bit or something. They got the charges dismissed, but it took them months.

Maybe an opportunity for competitors (3, Informative)

HangingChad (677530) | more than 2 years ago | (#39189861)

Seems like this is just the kind of break Dwolla [dwolla.com] needs to bring some much needed competition to the PayPal universe.

Re:Maybe an opportunity for competitors (2)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190063)

And Amazon payments, and Google checkout. There are options. Really.

Re:Maybe an opportunity for competitors (1)

djdanlib (732853) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190187)

It's too bad everybody drank the PayPal kool-aid. These other options are great, if only people would actually use them.

You can scarcely find a non-profit organization that takes donations using anything other than PayPal anymore. Forget about using eBay without it, too.

Re:Maybe an opportunity for competitors (1)

Rude Turnip (49495) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190121)

Google and Amazon also offer competing payment services. I usually seek out online merchants who use either Google or Amazon, since it means I don't have to re-enter credit card information. I do not have a paypal account (deleted it a few months ago) and avoid merchants who only have paypal as their CC processor.

Chargeback and porn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39189863)

The pron industry always had problems with chargebacks, e.g. on credit cards. Some say that the numbers get as high as 40% .
So, yes it is probable that people buying tentacle rape novels do have a higher tendency to do chargebacks.

Truth in advertising (1)

StikyPad (445176) | more than 2 years ago | (#39189865)

Perhaps people (women? I have no idea what the target demographic for literary porn is -- I'm a consumer of the visual media myself) aren't expecting heavy bitch-on-whelp action when they buy the book. How clearly is the content explained beforehand? That might be part of the problem.

Re:Truth in advertising (4, Insightful)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190069)

No. The problem is that a company doing payment processing oversteps its authority by making conditions on what those payments may be made for. The only legitimate condition they can put is that the money transaction is not for some illegal purpose. Anything else is simple none of their matter. What's next? Streets which come with restrictions on what books people in the passenger seats may read when driving on it? Garbage collection with the condition that your garbage doesn't contain condoms? Television channels which restrict the type of food you may eat while watching?

If they think those books are illegal, they should call the police. If not, they should shut up and process the payments, because that's what they get paid for.

Re:Truth in advertising (1)

StikyPad (445176) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190385)

I was referencing the claimed excessive amount of chargebacks for said material, not the processor's moral values.

Well, there goes ... (5, Insightful)

PPH (736903) | more than 2 years ago | (#39189871)

... the Bible.

The problem isn't writing (1, Offtopic)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | more than 2 years ago | (#39189879)

It's the fact that, once you've finished rubbing one out, there's really no more reason to pay for erotica.

At least, not for a couple of hours...

What's wrong with incest? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39189901)

When it's two consenting adults? If you've ever been separated from a parent or sibling due to adoption, etc. and are reunited; you may very well have strong sexual feelings for each other. It's a fact, and it's well studied. It's a shame it's so taboo to talk about. Even in a supposedly intellectual setting like slashdot.

Re:What's wrong with incest? (1)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190079)

When it's two consenting adults? If you've ever been separated from a parent or sibling due to adoption, etc. and are reunited; you may very well have strong sexual feelings for each other. It's a fact, and it's well studied. It's a shame it's so taboo to talk about. Even in a supposedly intellectual setting like slashdot.

Good thing we don't have to pay for slashdot with Paypal. They would drop us for that...

Bible... (2)

omganton (2554342) | more than 2 years ago | (#39189915)

Forgive my ignorance, but I'm pretty sure there was some incest in the bible somewhere, especially considering that whole "we're all sons and daughters of Adam and Eve" thing...

Re:Bible... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39190093)

lot's daughters get him drunk and take turns

jacob aka israel agreed to work to marry his hot cousin.
dad makes him marry ugly one first.
then he has to work 8 more years to marry the hot ones.

Re:Bible... (1)

shoehornjob (1632387) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190181)

LMAO back to the original sin (don't eat the Apple). That'll twist your head a bit.

Bitcoin (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39189919)

This is why we have, and need, Bitcoin. Seriously.

Solution Vs. GOOD solution (2)

gurps_npc (621217) | more than 2 years ago | (#39189921)

It is possible to end all rape by killing all men after getting a sperm sample.

But such a solution would not be a GOOD solution. The proposed solution is far worse than the crime a few people have committed.

Similarly, Pay Pals' actions are far worse than the complaint of higher charge backs.

Here, I have another solution: Figure out how many charge backs are common in a single year. Add one to that number, call it "the C Limit". Pay pal simply states that any book that has reached it's C limit can not be paid for using Pay Pal.

But that means actual WORK has to be done by Pay Pal.

Re:Solution Vs. GOOD solution (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39189985)

How would that end rape done by women?

Re:Solution Vs. GOOD solution (1)

Wain13001 (1119071) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190031)

If they can't rape men the women will just start raping other women.

Re:Solution Vs. GOOD solution (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39190261)

They already do.

Women do rape men. If all the men are dead, they obviously can't do that anymore, but that raises the OP's point: That solution is worse than the problem.

Rape is not the exclusive ability of men.

Re:Solution Vs. GOOD solution (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39190085)

Sounds like a plot for a dystopian fantasy.

A Woman only society raises its children separately. Girls have a full nurtured life. Boychildren are kept in the equivalent of cattle pens, the weak and sickly are weaned out and once the strong reach sexual maturity they are "milked" and slaughtered. The process repeats. One day there is a breakout, and the escapees make it to the wilderness, kidnapping stray girls and....

Hmmmm - sure its been done already? :-)

Probably couldn't get it paid for via Paypal....

Re:Solution Vs. GOOD solution (2)

HornWumpus (783565) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190287)

The first spider destroys their society.

Re:Solution Vs. GOOD solution (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39190585)

Probably.
NSFW link:
asstr.org

I'm sure you can find something from the usenet archives in assm.asstr.org, but if not the main site is sure to have them in there somewhere with the tens to hundreds of thousands of other stories they have up. Definitely do NOT recommend reading any stories that do not have 'storycodes' in the title however, they're either REALLY boring, or REALLY disturbing.

don't use (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39189925)

PayPal

Paypal owner a "libertarian" (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39189941)

He's donated a shitload of money to Ron Paul's Super PAC.

Some freedom lover.

Re:Paypal owner a "libertarian" (1)

medcalf (68293) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190111)

PayPal is owned by eBay. I think you need some actual citations, there, buddy.

They agreed to it when they signed up (4, Insightful)

ThreeGigs (239452) | more than 2 years ago | (#39189979)

There are many things you are not allowed to accept money for on PayPal. Most of them are illegal, but some, like guns and erotica, are not. But I do remember in PayPal's TOS that they did exclude sellers from taking payments for adult material.

So yeah, don't take PayPal and then complain because YOU didn't follow the rules.

However I will grant that the definition of what is, and isn't 'erotica', could be subject to wild swings of interpretation. However any merchant with enough volume has their own merchant account and doesn't need PayPal anyhow, so shouldn't need to worry about PP's interpretation.

Re:They agreed to it when they signed up (2)

ultranova (717540) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190481)

So yeah, don't take PayPal and then complain because YOU didn't follow the rules.

This does rise an interesting question: should TOSes or other unilateral declarations from private individuals or businesses be allowed to undermine the free market? As long as PayPal acts as a payment processor, it seems to me that allowing it to discriminate who it delivers payments to works against the interests of the consumer by reducing the number of suppliers available.

In other words: should we let PayPal decide who can and cannot buy or sell over the Internet, and what?

Only Idiots use PayPal (4, Informative)

jafiwam (310805) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190009)

Until PayPal is regulated by the federal government as a bank properly (which they are, de facto) only an idiot would do business with them.

Re:Only Idiots use PayPal (1)

DogDude (805747) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190101)

If I had mod points, I'd use 'em here. I agree. Only idiots would use Pay Pal. Anybody who gives this company access to their money and/or bank accounts deserves what they get.

Not the first time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39190099)

Look what happened to insex. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insex (wikipedia)

Why buy it? (2)

tramp (68773) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190143)

There is plenty of erotic literature for free on the net in the first place. Second why not use your cc directly? I killed my Paypal-account last year because they changed their policy once again (in their advantage of course). Plus their attitude against Wikileaks reason enough to end relations with them.

Re:Why buy it? (1)

ErikZ (55491) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190259)

The same reasons you buy books/epubs when there's thousands available for free.

Perhaps the problem is just the quality of writing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39190161)

"Perhaps the problem is just the quality of writing."

Or perhaps it's what happens when a person has spent money and then is "finished" and wants the money back.

It's not specifically writing that is targeted by this policy, it is anything sex related. Often people would use paypal to sign up to porn sites and when they were done, dispute the charges because they were dissatisfied or just downloaded all the content and didn't want to pay the cash.

Paypal is a private company and should be able to do what it wants. If you don't want to use it, there are tons of alternatives...

Tell Paypal (1)

StillNeedMoreCoffee (123989) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190251)

Log into paypal, contact us, there are no good topic sub topics so I chose Business Solutions/Other Business Resources to log a complaint. I suggest you do the same if you feel they should hear from the community

As someone in the payments industry... (5, Interesting)

Firehed (942385) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190341)

I hate to defend anything PayPal does - but they're absolutely telling the truth here: their partner banks are complaining (for whatever stupid, arbitrary reason), and they risk having those accounts closed (read: kill the company) if they don't stop providing merchant services for the seller in the article. One of the things that screws you over when you're only pretending to be a bank.

Don't get me wrong - I'd love to see paypal refuse to comply with their partner banks and get shut down, but we all know that's not going to happen. There's a ton of stupid things they do that are certainly their fault, but this is (based on my own experience with bitchy partner banks) not one of them.

The real reason (1)

slashmydots (2189826) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190439)

If you think about it, Paypal doesn't and shouldn't care about every little thing payments they handle are going for. Do they police in-game MMORPG purchases to make sure it's not a gaming addict? Do they make sure the skin cream someone is buying REALLY is effective at relieveing dry skin and signs of aging? No. They're the payment handler! What do they care? So I have a theory....

Likewise, fantasy novels in which human characters transform into non-humans are affected if those characters have sex

Sounds like someone's just not a Twilight fan. That could be the basis of this whole thing lol.

That's not the problem (2)

rudy_wayne (414635) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190509)

The crux seems to be that erotica buyers have a higher rate of 'chargebacks' — customers who buy stuff then demand their money back. Fair enough, but is a customer really more likely to return a book because it depicts one kind of fantasy between consenting adults vs. another?

People who buy porn have more chargebacks because the companies that sell porn tend to be bigger scumbags than other companies. I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of porn related chargebacks are the result of either not getting an item you paid for or getting something that has been substantially misrepresented.

If You Leave, PayPal Won't Care (3, Interesting)

IonOtter (629215) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190571)

I left Paypal about six months ago. I'd never been screwed over by them, but I saw so many other people getting screwed, that I felt why leave myself open like that? Because I have used Paypal to purchase porn in the past.

Leaving and cancelling my account was almost alarmingly easy. Just delete a few things, clean up the history, then click on the "delete account" button. *bink* Done.

No blubbery emails, no phone calls, no nuthin, just a "Thanks" and a slamming door. And I had a merchant account from selling stuff on eBay, too.

I think this is one of those cases where Paypal is making so much money, they honestly don't need to give a shit.

People still use PayPal? (2)

sdhankin (213671) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190579)

Why? They've shown their true colors long ago.

Of course, if you care more about convenience than you do about their censorship and not standing up for what's right if it might cost them a buck, go ahead.

It's your choice. It always was.

I hate PayPal (1)

BudAaron (1231468) | more than 2 years ago | (#39190599)

Quite a few years ago we used PayPal. It was an era where free software was a few clicks away. You only needed to order it, pay for it. download it and enter a dispute which card companies usually honored but some at least gave you the option to counter the dispute. PayPal did not and if you didn't have money in your account to cover the dispute they cancelled your PayPal account. That was sort of fair enough but PayPal cancelled my business account, my personal account and then went on to cancel my wifes account, the account of my four kids (adults all) and several others that were related apparently to the name Aaron. I've never tried to get a PayPal account since.
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