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Eight Tenths Of A Lizard

timothy posted more than 13 years ago | from the use-it-love-it-live-it dept.

Mozilla 283

Palin was the first of many like-minded souls to write with this news: "On my weekly check of Mozilla's status, I ran into version .8 of Mozilla, which seems to have been released yesterday. What a nice Valentine's day gift that was. :-)" And Alphix points to the thing itself, and suggests some things to read." Mozilla is my daily-use,pH-balanced Web browser of late, so I'm glad to see that it can finally allow users to avoid the degrading spectacle of endlessly cycling animated .gifs.

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Is it me or is MozillaQuest really bad? (1)

sab39 (10510) | more than 13 years ago | (#427789)

This is at least the fourth time I've seen MozillaQuest information corrected.

Back before the 0.7 release, it was widely known through newsgroup discussion and public comments that 0.7 was likely to be a hand-picked one of the nightly builds from sometime in December (in the end there was a brief branch for it, but that happened later). MozillaQuest ran a story in late December saying "0.7 is scheduled for the end of December, and seeing as it's December 29th or so today, that must mean that if you pick up a nightly tonight then it'll be more or less identical to 0.7, right?". Of course this was crap - the 0.7 build could have come from Dec 3rd, if that had been the best compromise of features and stability. (Of course, discussing the release process in a reply to Asa means that I'm bound to have got something wrong just by Murphy's Law, so the disclaimer is: if Asa disagrees with anything in this paragraph, then he's right and I'm wrong ;) )

Then I read another story on there - I forget the details of this one, but I think it was something to do with skinning, and even a casual observer of the project, such as myself, was able to spot technical mistakes in their comments. And that was intended as a tutorial for new skin creators!

Then there's the other comment in this slashdot article which Asa also corrected.

So far I haven't seen an article on MozillaQuest yet that I've considered up to the lowest standards of research and quality (although they haven't quite sunk to some of the depths /. has recently, either).

These days I just ignore any MozillaQuest link, despite being very interested in Mozilla info. I don't want to give them the banner ad money. Visit mozillaZine instead if you want accurate Mozilla reporting.

Stuart.

You CAN turn off animated gifs in IE (3)

Fervent (178271) | more than 13 years ago | (#427791)

Uh duh. All you have to do is press escape and it stops the animation in the current frame (along with any music/sounds being played on the page, Flash animations, additional page loading, etc.)

There's all kinds of cool keyboard shortcuts in IE. My favorite is pressing F11 to get full screen mode. Browsing the web in full screen absolutely rocks.

Re:MS is doing the right thing (1)

Matt Lee (2725) | more than 13 years ago | (#427795)

...or at least a better thing than the competition.

Sure, MS may consciously or subconsciously tweak IE to the likes of large corporations and media producers, but that's what they're SUPPOSED to do, at least to make money, and make a better product to boot. The fringe element of users who like to block all ads and save their porn for later is not worth designing a flagship platform for.

Netscape, and to a lesser extent, Mozilla seems to be going the complete opposite direction. If I were an IT admin for a large company, and browser A was plain and corporate, while browser B now includes a Shop button, and an instant messaging client, and the convenient ability to handle multimedia downloads more flexibly (oh, and the ability to turn off porn popups), hmm, which one would I choose?

Possibly the one that doesn't give people so many useless toys to play with, instead of doing their work... not to mention the fact that Netscape has a long list of other faults compared to IE. What's next, an eBay button, or a complimentary copy of Quake 3?

not 3.0 (1)

Examancer (303387) | more than 13 years ago | (#427797)

no, its not at version 3.0, its at version 0.3

Re:New question... (1)

Phantasmagoria (1595) | more than 13 years ago | (#427798)

What are you talking about? That's already what Mozilla does!!! The browser, the mail/news reader, the ssl system, etc. are all seperate components, of which only the browser is compulsory to install. It has been like this for ages!!! I must admit that the composer is included with the browser, when it should be a seperate component, but apart from that Mozilla is a "component-based application".
------------------

question about mail client (1)

lou2112 (265869) | more than 13 years ago | (#427799)

does anyone know when mozilla / netscape 6 will support ldap? does it already?

What's really great (2)

Elendur (228338) | more than 13 years ago | (#427802)

What's really great about Mozilla is that on the download page it says DON'T PANIC in bold letters.

Re:I'm Slashdotter (1)

vandan (151516) | more than 13 years ago | (#427804)

Alright man.
That's just about the funniest thing I've seen all week. Someone should keep a database of these things. Actually, I might start one myself.
Crank on.

Re:Choices! (1)

Wolfier (94144) | more than 13 years ago | (#427805)

I dunno - see, I'm using Opera 5.0b6 right now, downloaded 2 days ago or so.

It runs. But the DEB package depends on libqt2.2-gl. I don't have the library installed, but it turns out that everything works for me.

However, it keeps slowing down itself over time until I have to exit the browser and run it again. The feature of "saving windows content" is helpful in this regard.

Well I guess, I'll just run the static version.

Is Mozilla suffering from featuritis here? (3)

Wolfier (94144) | more than 13 years ago | (#427806)

Reminds me of the old NCSA-turned proxy server "NoShit", and the Windows proxy "Proxomitron" I used to love before I left the MS world.

While features like disabling animated GIF's and disabling particular sites for popup windows, those nasty evil spamming advertisers are always brilliant at innovating new ways to bypass your filter controls.

Then, what are we to do? To respond to every one of their tricks right in the browser? Or should we separate the job and put it in a proxy server for that purpose?

The way I see it, using a proxy is the way to go. If you've tried Proximitron you'll know why. It's infinitely more configurable - user-configurable. Everyone will has the ability to scratch their own advertiser-induced itches.

Prozilla anyone?

Don't let the man push you around (2)

astrashe (7452) | more than 13 years ago | (#427808)

A lot of what you said sounds reasonable, but I don't think getting rid of popup and banner ads is a fringe element thing. I think that almost everyone would prefer to have the ability to turn them off, espeically the ones that flash on and off really quickly like a strobe light. No matter how you slice it, those ads suck.

I don't want to defend Netscape and its shopping buttons. The Mozilla I just dl'd doesn't have them. Most of your comments are about Netscape, so in a sense we're talking past one another. But I'll keep going anyway.j

Corporate IT guys are going to go with IE, at least in the foreseeable future. I wrote a web app for internal use at a real estate support company, and reluctantly had to agree with my boss that going IE only made sense. There are too many differences in DHTML and Javascript across platforms, almost everyone wanted to use IE anyway, and supporting other browsers would have made the project much harder to pull off. XML was a big bonus as well. And we didn't put any animated gifs in our app anyway.

But there's more to life than your cube. People wear bland clothes at work, they sit at ugly desks, and often have uncomfortable chairs. At home we have options, and hopefully we make sure things are better. I don't feel that my work environment ought to dictate how I furnish my apartment. Why should it dictate what kind of software I run?

I want to turn off ads, at least the flashing ones. Maybe that makes me sick and unamerican, but that's how I feel.

uhh, sorry (1)

astrashe (7452) | more than 13 years ago | (#427810)

That was supposed to go under the post from the MIT guy who likes IE.

Time to go to sleep.

Mozilla Problem (1)

msaavedra (29918) | more than 13 years ago | (#427811)

In Mozilla builds for Linux for the last several weeks, I've been having problems with the browser freezing, then steadily consuming all my RAM, then my entire swap partition. If I don't kill the browser, within about 45 seconds it will cause my system to lock up. It only seems to happen on certain pages, though. For instance, this page [startingpage.com] causes the freeze for me 100% of the time. I am considering filing a bug report, but I'd like to find out if it is Mozilla or something with my system. Can anyone reproduce this problem?
---------------------------
"The people. Could you patent the sun?"

What, you want *tactful* adult entertainment? (4)

Sir_Winston (107378) | more than 13 years ago | (#427812)

> But even in the latter case, their sole purpose is to provide that sleazy sense of tactless
> production one comes to expect from all forms of adult entertainment.

I'm not going to defend animated GIFs here--they're annoying as hell, and on a dialup 56k like most people still are using, they're absolutely evil time-wasters. I recall once being SO annoyed that a page was taking so long to load, because the animated GIF banner at the top must have had thirty friggin frames...

But I just had to ask: what do you expect *other* than sleazy, tactless production in adult entertainment? Proper, tactful production? I can see it now, on PBS's Masterporn Theatre: "Oh, Madam Deepthroat, bring forth thy heaving bosoms of delight, that I might feel them up whilst thou tastest of my knightly schlong, bedewed with premature trickles of nectar as sweet as morning dew. Oh, how I have yearned to taste thy tuna steak of love, whilst you get it on with my handmaiden in some hot girl-girl action..."

Personally, I prefer the straightforward smut of a Dark Bros. or Max Hardcore production to the polished coldness of some silly Skinemax-wannabe soft stuff. But, I digress... ;-)


MMmmm. Faster... (1)

vandan (151516) | more than 13 years ago | (#427813)

I'm actually using a nightly build - 2001021321. Just about to download .8 - only for purity's sake. But man - I was gonna winge (again) about the (lack of) speed in Mozilla before I got this faster blaster going. Not need. Also Windows version is a lot faster. Nice work Mozilla team! This thing's coming together nicely.

0.8 versus 1.0... (1)

bokane (36382) | more than 13 years ago | (#427814)

It's amazing, actually, how much better Mozilla 0.8 is than Netscape 6.0.

A testament, I guess, either to the power of open-source or to the incompetence of AOL/Time-Warner/Satan/Netscape.

(shrug)

Re:MS will exploit IE, and that will push users aw (2)

pjrc (134994) | more than 13 years ago | (#427823)

"pb" asks:
For instance, why can't I find a button to turn off animated gifs, cookies, and JavaScript?
Because you've not tried "Edit - Preferences - Advanced", which has been available in netscape 4.x to disable cookies and javascript for years now.

Turning off animated gifs, true, there hasn't been a menu option for it. But, you can patch your netscape (any version) to play animations only once [hu-berlin.de] and then stop. I'll attach a little bit of C code I wrote that does the job for you.p

Still, it is nice to see the Mozilla guys including a preference to disable animation. Saddly, it seems that many users will never "find" it, judging from the post above.


/* patch the netscape binary to overwrite "NETSCAPE2.0"
* and "ANIMEXTS1.0" with different strings, so that
* netscape will be tricked into thinking all animated
* gifs are not to be looped. This is nice, since those
* annoying ads will play once and then stop.
*
* For more info, see this page:
* http://simmons.starkville.ms.us/tips/081097/
*/

#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <string.h>
#include <unistd.h>
#include <sys/types.h>
#include <sys/stat.h>
#include <fcntl.h>
#include <sys/stat.h>

#define NETSCAPE "/usr/lib/netscape/netscape-communicator"
// #define NETSCAPE "/usr/lib/netscape/netscape-navigator"

#define STR1 "NETSCAPE2.0"
#define STR2 "ANIMEXTS1.0"

const unsigned char *memstr(const char *haystack, const char *needle, int size);

int main(int argc, char **argv)
{
int fd, r, pos;
struct stat nsstat;
unsigned char *buf, *p;

r = stat(NETSCAPE, &nsstat);
if (r != 0) {
fprintf(stderr, "File %s doesn't exist\n", NETSCAPE);
exit(1);
}

buf = (unsigned char *)malloc(nsstat.st_size);
if (buf == NULL) {
fprintf(stderr, "Unable to allocate %ld bytes of memory\n",
(long)nsstat.st_size);
exit(1);
}

fd = open(NETSCAPE, O_RDWR);
if (fd < 0) {
fprintf(stderr, "Unable to open %s for read/write access\n",
NETSCAPE);
exit(1);
}

r = read(fd, buf, nsstat.st_size);
if (r != nsstat.st_size) {
fprintf(stderr, "Unable to read %ld bytes from %s\n",
(long)nsstat.st_size, NETSCAPE);
exit(1);
}


p = (unsigned char *)memstr(buf, STR1, nsstat.st_size);
if (p == NULL) {
fprintf(stderr, "Didn't find string \"%s\" within %s\n",
STR1, NETSCAPE);
exit(1);
}
pos = (int)(p - buf);
r = lseek(fd, pos, SEEK_SET);
if (r != pos) {
fprintf(stderr, "Unable to seek to offset=%d within %s\n",
pos, NETSCAPE);
exit(1);
}
r = write(fd, "NO_ANIM_GIF", strlen(STR1));
if (r != strlen(STR1)) {
fprintf(stderr, "Error writing to %s at offset %d\n",
NETSCAPE, pos);
exit(1);
}


p = (unsigned char *)memstr(buf, STR2, nsstat.st_size);
if (p == NULL) {
fprintf(stderr, "Didn't find string \"%s\" within %s\n",
STR2, NETSCAPE);
exit(1);
}
pos = (int)(p - buf);
r = lseek(fd, pos, SEEK_SET);
if (r != pos) {
fprintf(stderr, "Unable to seek to offset=%d within %s\n",
pos, NETSCAPE);
exit(1);
}
r = write(fd, "NO_ANIM_GIF", strlen(STR1));
if (r != strlen(STR1)) {
fprintf(stderr, "Error writing to %s at offset %d\n",
NETSCAPE, pos);
exit(1);
}

close(fd);

return 0;
}



const unsigned char *memstr(const char *haystack, const char *needle, int size)
{
const char *p;
int len;

len = strlen(needle);

while (size > 0) {
p = memchr(haystack, *needle, size);
if (p == NULL) return NULL;

size -= (int)(p - haystack);
if (size >= len && memcmp(p, needle, len) == 0) {
return p;
}
p++;
haystack = p;
}
return NULL;
}


Re:MS will exploit IE, and that will push users aw (2)

stx23 (14942) | more than 13 years ago | (#427825)

You can turn off animated gifs in IE. In options, advanced (or somewhere similar), turn off 'play animations'. No more dancing baloney. Javascript can also be controlled from somewhere similar. The functionality is there, but as with most MS products, it's not easy to find.

i just wish... (1)

hyperstation (185147) | more than 13 years ago | (#427827)

i could figure out why it made the program fonts (File, Edit, everything else) about twice the size as they were before...

it's really annoying at 800x600

--

Re:MS will exploit IE, and that will push users aw (2)

pb (1020) | more than 13 years ago | (#427831)

Perhaps you misunderstood the intent of that comment.

I don't want to know how I can turn off whichever preferences in a particular version of netscape; I want to know when browsers like netscape will let a user create my own buttons and customize their actions.

OF COURSE I can go to my preferences, but I can't just have one button that does a frequent task. Similarly, I liked the "Font Size" button they had in IE; in Netscape, that might make up for the lack of a "Zoom" feature (Opera and Galeon did this well).

Also, that code you posted is pretty long and ugly; not only would a link have sufficed, but couldn't someone have neatened up their error handling code? I wrote a function in C just for that, and it has greatly reduced the amount of pointless 'if' statements I have had to write, and improved debugging.

...and while I'm being pedantic, why the hell did you put my user name in quotes, "pjrc"?
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu] .

Java (was Re:Faster, Leaner, and Meaner?) (1)

jbailey999 (146222) | more than 13 years ago | (#427833)

I use Blackdown's JRE on Linux with the nightlies, and it works great. I've been doing this since mid December or so

Re:Don't let the man push you around (1)

Matt Lee (2725) | more than 13 years ago | (#427834)

I don't have a problem with turning ads off and crap like that, but from MS's point of view, it's better to let a plugin do that. A realistic company that wants to make friends and keep friends won't put in an ad blocking feature. Same reason why TiVo won't add a commercial skip feature - it's just pissing in other people's pools, and what goes around comes around. And MS knows where to put those warm and fuzzy features - in MSN Explorer, a browser for people who want that stuff. Netscape doesn't have to be everything to everyone, and truthfully they can't.

Netscape should focus on their core mission instead of trying to do everything cool. I don't need an alternative web browser to feel hip or trendy; I need a browser that will do what I need it to do, which is surf the damn web and be a good platform. :)

Re:New question... (1)

Elbereth (58257) | more than 13 years ago | (#427837)

JWZ wrote part of the bloated Netscape add-ons that nobody wanted (ie, mail and news). AFAIK, he didn't do any work on the core browser itself. For this reason, his comments don't really hold any more weight to me than do any other random (ex-)Mozilla developer.

As long as someone is using Mozilla, then it will never die. I have a feeling that a lot of UNIX systems have Mozilla (or, at least, Netscape) installed as the default (only?) browser. That's a very small minority of web users, of course, but it's probably enough to keep the momentum going.

Maybe Stallman himself will take over writing Mozilla, rather than see it fail. Heh. That would be somewhat amusing.

Wheee (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#427893)

Well, my Valentine's day happiness was getting laid after a nice and quiet romantic dinner, but hey, I'm glad to hear that Mozilla does the trick for you...

I'm Slashdotter (1)

stigmatic (310472) | more than 13 years ago | (#427901)

I'm Slashdotter... (sung to Eminem's I'm Slim Shady) sil@dont.hate.me.because.im.secksi.com [antioffline.com]

May I have your attention please
may I have your attention please

will the real slash dotter please stand up
I repeat will the real slashdotter please stand up

we're gonna have a problem here

Ya'll act like you never seen a geeky person before
jaws all on the floor
like Richard Stevens just burst in the door
and started writing some sockets books some more
the day's worse then before
throwing computer furniture (ahhhhh)

It's the return of the
"awww wait, no wait, you're kidding,
he didn't code in perl what I think he did - did he?"
and cmndrtaco said...
nothing you idiots, cmndrtaco's dead
he's locked in my basement

feminist women love slashdotter
tricka tricka tricka trolling blotters,
"I'm sick of him, lookit him coding around
using his you know what flippin' to you know who"

"yeah, but he's so brute though"

yeah, I probably got a couple of screws up in my head loose
but no worse than what's goin on in your parents bedroom (eheheheh)
sometimes, I wanna get on TV and just let loose
but cant, but it's cool for hemos to post some dead news

My packets and my scripts, my packets and my scripts
and if I'm lucky, I might ppp over Linux
and that's the message that we deliver to unix kids
and expect them not to know what a x terminal is

of course they're gonna know what x86 is
by the time they hit 4th grade
they got the Linux running on x86, dont they?

we ain't nothing but mammals
well, some of us crash terminals
running xfree with the wrong servers will

but if we can crash x terminals and servers too
then there's no reason to run xfree on that server fool

but if you feel like I feel, I got the antedote
geeks stop writing code, sing the chorus and it goes

I'm Slahshdotter, yes, I'm the real Dotter
all you other Slashdotter are just posting blotters
so won't the real Slashdotter please stand up - please stand up - please stand up

I'm Slahshdotter, yes, I'm the real Dotter
all you other Slashdotter are just posting blotters
so won't the real Slashdotter please stand up - please stand up - please stand up

micheal and hemos don't got a cuss in their posts to get up mod'ed
well I do so fuck them and fuck you too
you think I give a damn, my posting's funny
half of you critics can't even stomach me, calling me a dummy

"but dotter what if your mod'd 5 wouldn't it be weird"
why so you guys can just cry becuase you fear
so you can post some porn of some britner spears
shit Mr. Moderator better switch me chairs

so I can post next to goatse.cx thers nothing worse
and hear trollers argue over who got to post first
little bitch, mod me down to something under 3
"yeah, he's a geek, but I think he's married to Speedy [speedygrl.com] , hee hee"

I should download an audio on MP3
and show the world how you code in Microsoft VB
I'm sick of you little script kiddie boy groups
all you do is annoy me so I have been sent here to destroy you

and there's a million of us just like me
who code like me, who just don't give a fuck like me
who dress like me, walk, talk and act like me
and just might be the next best thing, but not quite me

I'm Slahshdotter, yes, I'm the real Dotter
all you other Slashdotter are just posting blotters
so won't the real Slashdotter please stand up - please stand up - please stand up

I'm Slahshdotter, yes, I'm the real Dotter
all you other Slashdotter are just posting blotters
so won't the real Slashdotter please stand up - please stand up - please stand up

I'm like a head trip to listen to
cause I'm only givin you things
you joke about with your friends inside you livin' room

the only difference is I got the balls to say it
in front of ya'll and I aint gotta be false or sugar coated at all

I just get on slashdot and spit it
and whether you like to admit it (riiip)
I just shit it better than 90% of you posters out can
then you wonder how can
geeks eat up these posts' like hostess
it's funny cause at the rate I'm going when I'm thirty
I'll be the only person on slashdot posting shit thats dirty

coding code hardcore religiously posting while I'm working
and I'm working but this fscking code just isn't working
in every single geek theres a slashdotter just lurking
he could be coding rewording code up from from dot com king, spittin out some trollings
or in the parking lot, circling, screamin I dont give a fuck
with his windows down and his system up

so will slashdotter please stand up
and put 1 of those fingers on each hand up
and be proud to be using Plan9 and outta control
and 1 more time, loud as you can, how does it go?

I'm Slahshdotter, yes, I'm the real Dotter
all you other Slashdotter are just posting blotters
so won't the real Slashdotter please stand up - please stand up - please stand up

I'm Slahshdotter, yes, I'm the real Dotter
all you other Slashdotter are just posting blotters
so won't the real Slashdotter please stand up - please stand up - please stand up

The last blocker bug... (5)

redpants (85084) | more than 13 years ago | (#427904)

I think before anyone posts to slashdot, they should read this bug report:

http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6897 4

Relating to slashdot's troubles earlier to-day.

Faster, Leaner, and Meaner? (3)

gururise (263174) | more than 13 years ago | (#427918)

My first impressions of using Mozilla 0.8 are:

* Seems faster than the old 0.6 or 0.7 builds. (ie the menus seem zippier).
* Seems to load faster than previous versions.
* Still can't minimize the download window w/o minimizing the entire Mozilla app.... (what gives?)
* Still having trouble installing JRE 1.3
Overall, 0.8 seems to be faster, and generally better than any of the previous builds.
Gururise
Garden Grove Real Estate [erachampion.com]

Re:0.8 versus 1.0... (2)

isorox (205688) | more than 13 years ago | (#427923)

well, netscape 6.0 split off from the mozilla branch way back before M18 (http://www.mozilla.org/roadmap.html [mozilla.org] ), so comparing Netscape 6 with a product released 3 versions later is a little unfair.

I sitll agree, netscape 6 sucks though.

P.S. This release was 2 days late! It was forcast for the 12th feb! (Well, arround).

Good job guys, keeping to a schedule. Should look forward to 0.9 about the 3rd week of march then, and hopefully 1.0 at the end of April.

New question... (5)

pb (1020) | more than 13 years ago | (#427926)

I had a great time using Mozilla 0.7; it has gotten a lot better, and so much better than the original Netscape code they were using. However, I don't think that's the issue anymore.

The real issue is, what will happen to Netscape? They aren't losing the browser war now because of Mozilla. Now it's because of AOL, who makes every stable Mozilla release into a horribly patched, rushed Netscape release with extra annoying commercial features and bundling that none of us want or need.

Also, despite the benefits Mozilla has seen due to Open Source development, I doubt it will do as well without Netscape, as gutted as it is. JWZ said that the benefits gained from opening a project like that is about 30%, which means that 70% of the work has to be done by AOL/Netscape/Time Warner, and if AOL loses this war to Microsoft, we might lose a lot of developers.

Also, it sucks seeing a great team of people turn into a large impersonal entity that no one really likes. As the Open Source community is already developing other browsers, it isn't clear how much work will be put into Mozilla, and how much will be spent reinventing the wheel.

I only hope that a truly impressive, usable browser comes out of all this: one that doesn't annoy me and show me ads, but rather lets me tell it what I want it to do. Being able to set a level of HTML compliance would be nice, as well.
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu] .

Huzzah! (1)

Chas (5144) | more than 13 years ago | (#427929)

Time to start downloading before Mozilla.org drowns under a Slashdotting.

Seriously, if this fixes some of the bugs I've noted in earlier versions (and if Java'll install right, right off the bat, I'll be more than happy).


Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!

Re:Faster, Leaner, and Meaner? (2)

asa (33102) | more than 13 years ago | (#427932)

To load the JRE you'll need to have the latest SUN JRE on your system. Then it's as simple as creating a symlink in the /mozilla/plugins/ directory pointing at the JRE OJI plugin.

Blackdown's JRE was working for some folks last I heard so if you've got that give it a try.

--Asa

Animated GIFs and Interface Design (5)

Gorobei (127755) | more than 13 years ago | (#427934)

Animated GIFs illustrate one of the big problems of complex GUI apps: the cure for the pain is no where near the source of the pain.

I've watched naive users (e.g. my parents) use a browser. When faced with an agonizing animated GIF, giant blink text, or horrible background, they move the mouse to the offending item, and try to turn it off. This is, of course, in keeping with the GUI concept: select the item, then manipulate it, perhaps with a right mouse click. This corresponds deeply with reality: if a mosquito is biting me, I focus on it and take action.

Browser interfaces are often counter-intuitive because the cure is hidden in deep menu items, e.g. edit->prefs->advanced->.... Users rarely find these things, and if they do, don't know what they do. My dad doesn't want to disable all Java apps, he just wants to stop the pain he is experiencing on the page he is currently visiting. To make a browser great, watch your new users very closely.

The buggiest software ever .. (1)

shaji (32462) | more than 13 years ago | (#427936)

I have never seen a buggiest software like mozilla ever !! The number of pending bugs in mozilla have grown up that mozilla cannot even load the list of bugs ...

There is a bug in loading list of bugs
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=44961

Redhat RPMs for Mozilla. (1)

buysse (5473) | more than 13 years ago | (#427938)

are being packaged by Christoper Blizzard and can be found here [redhat.com] . As of right now, the binary RPMs are not around, but the 0.8 SRPM for Redhat 7 is there now. Build it yourself if you're in a hurry -- the source is a smaller download than the binaries anyway. :)


Choices! (4)

NetJunkie (56134) | more than 13 years ago | (#427942)

I have a script that gets the nightly build of Mozilla for me every day, so I've seen it get better and better. It's starting improve and be very usable performance wise. But...lately I've been using Opera v5.0b6 and the more I use it the more I like it. Very fast with few rendering problems. Well worth checking out!

Re:Who Cares? (1)

*xpenguin* (306001) | more than 13 years ago | (#427944)

Konqueror doesn't understand the <DIV ALIGN = "CENTER"> tag

--

Heresy! (2)

screwballicus (313964) | more than 13 years ago | (#427949)

Valentines Day gift? Are you suggesting that love for another human being could ever equal the sort of profound, moving grandeur that the love for one's favourite open-source project provokes? That one's emotional connection with a person of like mind could compare to one's VPN connection with a box of like build?

Only Linux truly loves you. Human beings just can't grep all the processes you're going through.

Re:The last blocker bug... (2)

Booker (6173) | more than 13 years ago | (#427954)

Heh... luckily there's a patch...


Index: nsAppRunner.cpp

RCS file: /cvsroot/mozilla/xpfe/bootstrap/nsAppRunner.cpp,v
retrieving revision 1.263
diff -u -r1.263 nsAppRunner.cpp
--- nsAppRunner.cpp 2001/02/12 21:16:02 1.263
+++ nsAppRunner.cpp 2001/02/16 00:11:44
@@ -1195,6 +1195,7 @@

int main(int argc, char* argv[])
{
+ NS_ASSERTION(bSlashdotRunning,"Can't start without SlashDot");
#if defined(XP_UNIX)
InstallUnixSignalHandlers(argv[0]);
#endif

---

Re:The last blocker bug... (5)

WasterDave (20047) | more than 13 years ago | (#427956)

We can't possibly consider releasing Mozilla 0.8 until they are back up and running, so that lots of Linux zealots and armchair coders can log on and slag off our hard work in a specially-prepared forum.

Fuck, that's funny. So, go on: 95 posts saying that its bloatware and why can't we have a lighter browser; 47 pointing out the obvious and saying that Netscrape 4.7.2 leaks memory; 22 posts on the subject of IE being better; At least some figting pointlessly over whether the UI stinks, or it's just that we don't understand how important XML is...

Good work, Mozilla dudes.

Dave

Kill the gifs! (2)

PhatKat (78180) | more than 13 years ago | (#427963)

I'm totally psyched about the prospect of killing the animated gifs. They're a serious hassle whenever I'm SSHed(Or whatever the hell I'm supposed to call it now... I use OpenSSH) into some box running mozilla remotely. They're a pointless waste of bandwidth for remote X login and not pretty enough to be useful in any cases I can think of other than, just possibly, porn. But even in the latter case, their sole purpose is to provide that sleazy sense of tactless production one comes to expect from all forms of adult entertainment.

Good riddance and good night.

Re:I've been Netscape free for a couple days now.. (2)

roca (43122) | more than 13 years ago | (#427964)

Since Galeon is entirely dependent on Mozilla for its browsing engine, and Mozilla was largely created by Netscape, I'm afraid you're not Netscape-free at all.

8/10ths, and I am sad (2)

banky (9941) | more than 13 years ago | (#427968)

I'm about ready to post a message akin to JWZ's high profile departure from Mozilla, but from a users perspective. I snatched Mozilla before it was posted on slashdot, put it on Linux (Mandrake 7.2 and a Celeron 466) and Windows (98SE with a PIII/500).

It's still got so many bugs. The text entry widget is broken. It kills Windows dead (real hard, I know). Changing the skin kills the menus (File and Edit works, everything after View doesn't). It crashed getting my POP email. On and on and on.

Did I get a bad build (build ID 2001021503)? Is my machine misconfigured? What the hell is going on?

I don't want to make this sound like a troll or flamebait. Its really not, in my mind. Its the plaintive wail of someone who has spent the past year or so trying to tell his co-workers, friends, and random people on the street to support this project, "It'll get better soon, honest". It is better now, to be sure. It hasn't crashed in the last 8 minutes or so its been running on this machine. Joy. It hasn't finished rendering the submit page, and for that matter it never seems to finish (looking at the stdout in the xterm above for the past few pages I've loaded).

Will 1.0 actually work? Is the emperor wearing clothes?

Funny how people do opposite of what Mozilla says (2)

proxima (165692) | more than 13 years ago | (#427969)

"In the meantime, if you want to test drive the brand new Mozilla 0.8 builds now, we recommend that you install Mozilla 0.8 in its own directory, that you do not get rid of your current browser(s), and that you do not set Mozilla 0.8 as your default browser -- yet."
">Mozilla is my daily-use,pH-balanced web browser of late

Of course, the people at Mozilla were just saying don't set the version 0.8 as the default browser - perhaps they're simply recommending waiting a few builds for more bug fixes.

On another note, I was encouraged by this:

"Mozilla development work now is focused on bug squashing, improved stability, and better performance."

Nice to see that performance is being worked on - that is my main critism of most browsers for Linux (Konqueror is fast, but it wouldn't properly display a few pages for me in KDE 2.0.1, so I'll wait a few versions). For me, I'm still stuck with Netscrape 4.7 on both my Win comp and my Linux comp, because I want the same browser for both, yet reasonably full featured and psuedo-reliable (Netscape crashes maybe once every two weeks of hard use, not too bad for me).

Anyway, it's promising to see Mozilla and Konqueror coming along nicely. Good work.

It figures... (1)

Lac (135355) | more than 13 years ago | (#427971)

This always happens. I think the site admins hate me. Why was the story rejected when _I_ submitted it two weeks ago?

J.

If Timothy is so opposed to animated GIFs... (4)

SClitheroe (132403) | more than 13 years ago | (#427976)

Then why is practically every Slashdot page equipped with one?

Sorta funny to slam one of Slashdot's only revenue streams...

hah! (1)

7-Vodka (195504) | more than 13 years ago | (#427979)

konqueror is the two-eyed king in Opera''s one-eyed land and you know it. >:)

"just connect this to..."
BZZT.

Re:Funny how people do opposite of what Mozilla sa (2)

asa (33102) | more than 13 years ago | (#427983)

Of course, the people at Mozilla were just saying don't set the version 0.8 as the default browser - perhaps they're simply recommending waiting a few builds for more bug fixes.

um. no the people at Mozilla did not say that. a guy from the webpages mozillaquest.com said that.

--Asa

Browser good, mailer bad... (4)

Mike Hicks (244) | more than 13 years ago | (#427985)

I have to ask what people who use Netscape for mail have been doing now that Mozilla is shaping up. I've used Netscape for my mail client for many years now (only for the facts that it is firstly a decent GUI client, as far as Unix clients go, and that it can display HTML mail), but Mozilla just doesn't cut it for me.

The widgets for lists and trees are terrible in Mozilla (at least on Unix), and it really makes me wish that the Moz folks had decided to stay with Gtk+ for the toolkit, rather than rolling their own for the sake of portability.. I'm not sure they knew what they were getting into with a new toolkit, especially since they'll probably have to deal with the same things that the Pango [pango.org] folks are..

Anyway, back to my initial query -- what are people using instead? There have been a number of clients based on toolkits like Tk (blech) and even straight Athena widgets (triple blech). The nicer-looking clients (IMHO) seem to be all glam and no substance.. What's up with that?

If someone can find me a 3-pane Gtk+ or Gnome GUI client that is stable and that can handle PGP/GPG, I'd be forever grateful.
--

Re:I've been Netscape free for a couple days now.. (1)

Black_Cherry (316598) | more than 13 years ago | (#427986)

Is Galeon ready for prime time? I mean, is it stable enough to totally replace Netscape 4.76/6 or perhaps Konqueror?

The concept of Galeon really intrigues me. I've always been a fan of compact fast code.

__

Re:Choices! OT (1)

psocccer (105399) | more than 13 years ago | (#427988)

I had given up on Opera about 3 or 4 months ago after seeing them release a "free" version for windows but that Linux still had a 4.0Beta release, which was the "non-free" release. I just checked again before sticking my foot in my mouth about them not supporting Linux, and good thing to because it seems they now have a Linux port of version 5.

It should be noted that the way opera stays "free" is by putting banner ads in the browser itself, much like Eudora started doing and several other newer online only applications. There is the option to purchase an ad-free version I believe.

What I'm wondering though, is, does anyone think this will work? We tried it on the web and everyone realised that you don't get out of the red with banner ads, but is it going to make a difference when they are embedded in the app with the option to purchase ad-free software? I like opera, I think it's fast and I especially like the idea of using MDI instead of new top-level windows for every page, but I don't think the ad thing is going to make any significant difference in revenue for them.

Thoughts?

Question (2)

MyopicProwls (122482) | more than 13 years ago | (#427990)

Is this image [mozillaquest.com] which shows the Moz roadmap supposed to say 2001 instead of 2000?

MyopicProwls

what roadmap are you looking at (2)

asa (33102) | more than 13 years ago | (#427991)

If you would like to see the real roadmap go to http://mozilla.org/roadmap.html

The roadmap you pointed to was a table on a webpage called mozillaquest.com.

--Asa

I have (1)

jjr (6873) | more than 13 years ago | (#427993)

A new release to play with well I hope it better than the last one.

Re:The last blocker bug... (2)

update() (217397) | more than 13 years ago | (#427995)

"Suggested fix:...I suggest we release 0.8 5 days after slashdot announces it.

Actually, just about all of the milestones were released well after Slashdot claimed they were out, as one person after another looked at the FTP site and was confused about the versioning scheme.

As an aside, given that Slashdot is the most prominent and most popular Linux site and the flagship of VA Linux's sites (linux.com notwithstanding), isn't its performance a little embarassing? Not that it's a big deal for me to go without Slashdot when it's unreachable every day between 5-7 pm EST (the twitching subsides after an hour or so) but you would think the guys at LNUX would want their showcase to give a better impression.

SSL = Bad (1)

johnnyproton (160621) | more than 13 years ago | (#427997)

Am I the only person who things SSL is the most screwed up thing about this program? I love Mozilla (actually, the concept behind Mozilla) but if you can't shop, it's pretty pointless.

I haven't even tried mail yet. Still sticking with 4.x for that.

daily builds (2)

phantomlord (38815) | more than 13 years ago | (#428002)

I was happily chugging along on the daily builds until sometime around the first of the month. Apparently, they decided to stop asking what color preferences you want and instead use the colors associated with your gtk theme as the default colors for text/background for the displayed pages. Sites like appwatch [appwatch.com] are unreadable because they chose to use the secondary foreground color so I'm still using a build from about a month ago. The bug's [mozilla.org] been in bugzilla since Feb 2nd along with a patch and they still haven't bothered to check it in. I thought they were supposed to be in the process of fixing the bugs right now rather than adding "features". The other thing that sucks is I had to fire up Netscape 4.7 to post this because the text entry seems to break at every line so when you insert long URLs, it chops them up so they don't work. I'm still trying to find that one in bugzilla...

Mozilla as a Stable Browser? Keep Dreaming! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#428003)

Check out this bug report [mozilla.org] and series of discussions. What kind of development process is this? I've never seen something so chaotic with a product as complex as Mozilla. People are making minor changes breaking entire other parts of the program. Fundamental errors are going unseen for ages. Do they really expect to get a working browser out of this insane process?

Re:New question... (2)

Error27 (100234) | more than 13 years ago | (#428004)

>it's because of AOL, who makes every stable Mozilla release into a horribly patched, rushed Netscape release

I thought they only did that one time? But you're probably right I bet that they add the same junk next time... although perhaps it will seem less rushed.

>As the Open Source community is already developing other browsers, it isn't clear how much work will be put into Mozilla, and how much will be spent reinventing the wheel.

KDE has been working on Konqueror for over a year now. It's actually quite nice.

All the other ones I've heard of have used the mozilla html renderrer. It's pretty easy to write a minimalistic browser with gtk-mozembed. I'd say it only takes around 5k lines of code.

I agree. (1)

NetJunkie (56134) | more than 13 years ago | (#428006)

I don't think they can support it with ads. I may buy the ad free version soon, and I hope others would too. I hate to pay $39 for my web browser but there aren't many other GOOD options right now. I figure it is at least a solution until Mozilla gets really good.

My main complaint about mozilla right now is speed. It's much better than it was, but going back to IE and Opera for somethings shows how slow it still is.

Re:8/10ths, and I am sad (1)

psocccer (105399) | more than 13 years ago | (#428008)

Not trying to flame here, but here's my experience in Win98, haven't got my Linux build yet because I just happened to d/l 0.8 for windows earlier because I needed to view a page with PNG's on it and IE doesn't support them.

For reference here's my build info:

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; 0.8) Gecko/20010215

It's still got so many bugs. The text entry widget is broken. It kills Windows dead (real hard, I know). Changing the skin kills the menus (File and Edit works, everything after View doesn't). It crashed getting my POP email. On and on and on.

I haven't used it for mail, putty and pine do that good enough, but I'm entering this comment with it right now. Also, the first thing I did after firing it up was change to the "Modern" theme. So far no crashes, and I'm not losing windows resources every time I close a window like I do with IE. (For those of you who aren't familiar with windows resource problems, do a quick search on google [google.com] ) I know it's something to do with my graphics card driver, but for whatever reason IE leaks like a sieve and nothing else does, including mozilla. As far as UI issues, I haven't seen any yet.

I've only had Mozilla going for a few hours now, but it renders fast and does pretty much what I want. I've run older versions of mozilla on my Linux box at work, .7 I think, and it worked fine for me as well. Maybe I'm not stress testing enough, but since I write web pages all freakin' day I would think I do.

I've also used the Mozilla rendering engine in a few other gtk apps, most notably galeon and some other interface that escapes my mind right now, but I noticed they had rendering problems such as ignoring text box sizes and such. Why would this happen, it's the same engine and mozilla...? Anyone else seen this problem?

Re:8/10ths, and I am sad (4)

BZ (40346) | more than 13 years ago | (#428010)

You did not get a particularly bad build. However, Mozilla is a work in progress. Some of the problems you describe were created by the rearchitecting of parts of the browser over the last few weeks.

I would suggest watching http://www.mozillazine.org/build_comments/ [mozillazine.org] and getting or not getting builds based on the excellent comments Asa puts up there.

I'm not sure why your text entry widget wasn't working; if you could file a bug report on it (http://bugzilla.mozilla.org [mozilla.org] ) that would be great. The menu bug is a very recent regression and is being worked on.

Re:Browser good, mailer bad... (1)

BZ (40346) | more than 13 years ago | (#428017)

Are the widgets terrible because of performance? If so, I should let you know that MailNews is being rewritten to use a different tree widget that's a _lot_ faster than the current tree widget when dealing with very large trees.

That being said, I presume exmh is no good because it is tk?

Re:8/10ths, and I am sad (2)

shayne321 (106803) | more than 13 years ago | (#428019)

Did I get a bad build (build ID 2001021503)? Is my machine misconfigured? What the hell is going on?

I can't speak to your machine, but a lot of people (myself included) will stand up and fight for how well mozilla does for *us*. After trying some of the Mxx releases (as far back as M15) I was even more of a skeptic than you.. But since the first of this year I've been randomly using nightlies (as in, whenever I can remember to update I do) and have been nothing but impressed. My current build (2001013004) on my home win2k pro machine, and the build I use at work (2001021105) on RH linux 6.1 have been nothing but rock solid stable. I think my home build has crashed MAYBE twice, and my linux build has not crashed since I installed it (knocking on wood). In theory the 0.8 release should be EVEN more stable, as they branched it a couple of weeks ago and did nothing but hammer out bugs.

Most stability problems can be traced back to fragments of early mozilla installs lying around waiting to bite you... Things like installing overtop of an old install, not completely removing an old install, or using a profile from an old install. If you watch netscape.public.mozilla.general you'll see many people come into the group bitching about stability, but leave happy once the folks there have them COMPLETELY remove old installs and start fresh.

Just thought I'd defend the lizard a little bit since it's trendy to bash him these days, and I'm feeling guilty cause I don't contribute to the project.. :)

Shayne

Re:8/10ths, and I am sad (1)

update() (217397) | more than 13 years ago | (#428022)

After posting this, I noticed this post [slashdot.org] and realized, "Duh! I should have removed my old preferences before complaining!" So I did a completely clean reinstall and found the same problem - text entry is white on white.

I assume this is a common problem, at least in the Mac builds, because there's nothing unusual on this box (8.6 on a b&w G3) except Kaleidoscope. If any developers are interested, let me know at the address in the screenshot and I'll file a bug report. Otherwise I'm not bothering anymore. Microsoft clearly cares about producing a quality browser for the Mac. My impression of the Mozilla attitude is that they've got their cross-platform framework and therefore don't need to pay non-Windows platforms any further attention.

Re:8/10ths, and I am sad (2)

update() (217397) | more than 13 years ago | (#428024)

The text entry widget is broken.

I tried a nightly build (MacOS) a few weeks ago and ran into this problem. I couldn't believe they could ship a release with that bug so I when I read your post I downloaded a 0.8 package. Same problem - picture here. [leeta.net] And Windows has the same bug? Unfreakingbelievable. Doesn't anyone use this thing?

Meanwhile, if they would just fix Mac IE's stability, it would be perfect. And Konqueror from recent CVS is perfectly usable, including for online banking and JavaScript-heavy sites. Plus it has a much more fun feel to participate in - it's a hacker project, the developers respond to bug reports promptly, I feel like I'm welcome in their community and the project advances visibly each day instead of slowly spiraling into oblivion.

Re:I've been Netscape free for a couple days now.. (1)

Sygnus (83325) | more than 13 years ago | (#428026)

Is Galeon ready for prime time? I mean, is it stable enough to totally replace Netscape 4.76/6 or perhaps Konqueror?

Yes. Galeon has been my primary browser for a couple of months, and I find that it rarely crashes (especially since the 0.9pre? series).

Re:Browser good, mailer bad... (1)

wroot (264810) | more than 13 years ago | (#428027)

it will always be pine for me.

0.8, Still lots of annoyances... (1)

chip_hk (141132) | more than 13 years ago | (#428029)

As a web developer (i download builds weekly and use them heavily), 0.8 is still having tons of problems - Can't control language charset within an individual frame; - hitting reload will cause all POST variables lost; - view source / change language charset cause a reload; which also cause loss of POST variables; - can't even open the DOM viewer; - visiting zdnet cause all browser window freezes; - stability becomes worse than 0.7... just tried to read documentation inside php.net, crash twice there this morning. frankly speaking, increasing disappointing, even I still bother to sent in bug reports..

Re:daily builds (1)

BZ (40346) | more than 13 years ago | (#428030)

That sounds like you have the build with the completely broken color preferences. That bug was present in builds for about 12 hours one day.... I would suggest getting a fresh build once the Slashdotting subsides and making sure you do a clean install (don't untar over the old install, delete the old install completely). That should fix the xml error you are seeing.

Re:Choices! (1)

MicroBerto (91055) | more than 13 years ago | (#428031)

The latest version of Galeon [sourceforge.net] has been ROCK-SOLID for me, and is making my mozilla experience much, much better. I've been running it for a good 2 weeks now, and have never been so happy with a browser in linux!

Mike Roberto
- GAIM: MicroBerto

Re:daily builds (1)

BZ (40346) | more than 13 years ago | (#428032)

Actually, that bug is about Mozilla trying to use GTK theme colors and doing it wrong.

I suggest unchecking the "Use System Colors" checkbox in preferences under "Appearance > Colors" if you don't want mozilla to use the system colors (which under Linux would be your GTK theme, Mozilla being a GTK app). That will help your color problems a lot.

Re:The last blocker bug... (2)

rabtech (223758) | more than 13 years ago | (#428033)

I don't know WTF was going on with /. earlier today (CmdrTaco ever hear of a SYSTEM STATUS PAGE?), but D*mmit that was annoying. I kept trying to log in and got randomly kicked to different pages, my viewing prefs started going nuts. It was complete and utter chaos. I really did feel as if the world were spinning out of control! Then I snapped out of it and clicked on another website :)

While Mozilla is looking better, I still don't feel that it is up to snuff. Our company is standardized on Netscape right now, but I figure we will move to Internet Explorer / Outlook soon. It is just taking way too long for us to consider keeping Netscape around. Of course, as the clients start making their way to the preverbial bit bucket, so will the Servers.... and guess who is gonna replace them? You guessed it: Microsoft.

If there are any open-source email servers that can interface with an LDAP directory service for authentication (like Active directory), I'd be quite interested in them. The biggest problem is we MUST have a calendar system, and to date I am not aware of any good open-source calendar systems that can auth to LDAP and have Windows clients available.
-
The IHA Forums [ihateapple.com]

Re:daily builds (2)

phantomlord (38815) | more than 13 years ago | (#428034)

That bug was present in builds for about 12 hours one day....

happened in all 4 or so of the builds I tried between 2/2 and 2/12 or so... the previous build was deleted before installing the new each time. Will try a new build sometime today though

Re:daily builds (1)

phantomlord (38815) | more than 13 years ago | (#428035)

I suggest unchecking the "Use System Colors" checkbox in preferences under "Appearance > Colors" if you don't want mozilla to use the system colors

I can't pull down a current daily due to the load on their servers... but when I've downloaded them over the past couple weeks since the change, when I would go to Appearance->Colors, I would get an XML error. I moved .mozilla so it could create an entirely new profile (figuring it may have disagreed with my current profile) but it still brought up the error so, unfortunately, I can't simply disable system colors...

Re:mailll (3)

BZ (40346) | more than 13 years ago | (#428036)

Why? Because on Linux there is no nice standard for a way to interface to external mail apps. Every app has its own happy way to have a mail address passed to it.

That said, you are not the only one who wants this functionality. See http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11459 [mozilla.org] . The discussion on that bug includes a way to fix it using Protozoilla. This fix is currently being considered for inclusion in the main source tree.

Re:Mozilla (1)

BZ (40346) | more than 13 years ago | (#428037)

Um.. that's 1.5gigs for a debug build. With a lot of debug stuff built, as well as the full regression test suite and so forth. And the tarball of source is 25 megs... :)

That said, a full install without java (but with irc client, mailnews, etc) is about 30 megs...

About bloody time... (1)

The Evil Beaver (175641) | more than 13 years ago | (#428038)

I've been waiting since Monday, because that's when the roadmap said that 0.8 would be out. Does this mean I should adjust all the days to two days later?
And it seems that we aren't going to make 1.0 anytime soon. With all the bugs, features, etc. that are supposed to be in 1.0, we'll be lucky to see it before mid to late Q4. =(
Still, that's no reason to give up. If I could code reasonably good C++ I'd be helping, but since I can't, I'll be keeping up the advocacy. So could anyone suggest any good cheap books that could help me do C++ well enough to help with Mozilla development?

Kmeleon is 3.0 (1)

logiceight (187269) | more than 13 years ago | (#428039)

In other news Kmeleon is at 3.0

Get it here [kmeleon.org]

Re:Faster, Leaner, and Meaner? (3)

Fnkmaster (89084) | more than 13 years ago | (#428040)

To clarify - I installed the Sun JDK 1.3.1 (I usually use the IBM JDK 1.3 for development work, but I had Sun 1.3.0 on my box as well). The javaplugin.so from 1.3.0 does _NOT_ work as a Mozilla plugin. BUT the JDK 1.3.1 has in the jre/plugins/ns600/ directory a libjavaplugin_oji.so file or something like that. Just symlink that file from your mozilla/plugins directory, and voila, reconstituted, working applet support. Oh, and delete the crap that the Netscape JRE 1.3 plugin stuck in the plugins/java dir since it doesn't work and isn't needed.

Re:Choices! OT (1)

snoop_chili_dog (314897) | more than 13 years ago | (#428041)

They're problem is that they're trying to sell people something they already get for free. Even if I were going to buy a browser, I wouldn't pay $39 for it.

Having said that I have to say that Opera is the best browser I've ever used. If they keep the free version around, then lots of people are going to switch.

Re:8/10ths, and I am sad (1)

Platinum Dragon (34829) | more than 13 years ago | (#428042)

The text entry widget is broken.

Using a 0.8 nightly to post this; I was doing a mock pitch today, so I haven't had much chance to concentrate on my usual geeky pursuits until now. So I'm not sure if there's been a regression in the past couple days or so, but as of the 2001021403 build, the text widget works fine under Linux.

Changing the skin kills the menus (File and Edit works, everything after View doesn't).

Bug 67574? Yeah, I know. I was the first reporter. It's a regression, and just hit "mostfreq" status - that is, a lot of people are noticing it, it needs to be fixed.

I'm rather surprised 0.8 was released so quickly; the menu bug was marked "critical for mozilla 0.8".

"It'll get better soon, honest". It is better now, to be sure. It hasn't crashed in the last 8 minutes or so its been running on this machine.

Good to hear; I don't think I've had a crash in several days, and I abuse this poor thing. I don't use it for e-mail, but I haven't hit any consistent crashers since the popup-window-closing crasher was fixed two months back.

Re:New question... (2)

heike (310814) | more than 13 years ago | (#428043)

This is not criticism to the people working on mozilla, I think they have done a great job putting this together. I'm using it everyday, actually, I have mozilla and galeon.

The question I have is this: why do we need to have all the features (browser, mail, news reader, address book, composer...) in one huge applications? Is it necessary to do this way? Why can't we repartition this thing, build a framework, which is a browser only, and have some kinda plug-in interface to drop in other components if the user chooses to do so? We can have a framework such that all these components may interact with each other, thru well-defined interface (CORBA, or whatever...)

So, for example, more than one group can come up with the mail client component and compete. The better one will gain more users.

I hate the mail client and news reader in that they don't allow me to change the font size. The size becomes so small on hi-res monitor that it's not readable. if I have some other mail components to choose from, I sure will.

And I'm not using Composer. Why can't I get rid of it? It's taking up my resources.

If there's an easy interface that I can drop my own components into, I'm sure I'll write a mail client component that supports multi-language input methods. And I'm sure other people would be interested in sending non-english emails too.

I'm still dreaming of component-based applications....

On the topic of animated GIFs... (2)

Jucius Maximus (229128) | more than 13 years ago | (#428044)

Windows users can prevent GIFs from animating in any browser that supports proxies by using a little program called The Proxomitron [spywaresucks.org] .

It acts as a proxy on localhost can can modify headers (my useragent is MinitaureGiantSpaceHamsterBrowser, or I could tell it to say that my mozilla is IE5) and you can program your own filters to match/modify any html/javascript.

It's extremely useful with Mozilla (or any other browser) because I can eliminate specific ad-frames, web-branding, popups, halt animated GIFS and other nastiness on the page before it loads.

O'Toole's Commentary on Murphy's Law:

Re:Browser good, mailer bad... (4)

benmg (69572) | more than 13 years ago | (#428045)

Dave Hyatt is working on a new tree widget for use in large trees (mail, bookmarks, etc) which is a leaf frame with no content model backing. A client creates a component that implements an interface that the widget talks to in order to paint its contents. The component is free to source its data from any medium it chooses. The tree only has to deal with matter onscreen, there is no lengthy content construction phase or RDF graph generation (unless your data store is RDF), so it is much faster. Demonstrations have shown it capable of scaling to over 5,000,000 items and appearing and scrolling quickly. Hopefully this will provide a means to solve the speed problems suffered by the mail client, and to an extent the bookmarks window. To see it in action, pull MailNews_Performance_20010208_BRANCH on Linux or Windows.

-Ben Goodger
-Netscape Navigator

mailll (3)

crazney (194622) | more than 13 years ago | (#428046)

Ok,

<rant>.

why on earth does mozilla not let me link my <a href="mailto:blah"> to another app? this just seems absolutely stupid!

cause honestly, who would want to use mozilla mail when you could use something like pronto.
</rant>
im refering to the linux version, havent tried any other os's in a few years :-)

"Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk ?"

Re:It figures... (1)

BZ (40346) | more than 13 years ago | (#428047)

Because Mozilla 0.8 was not released till today (February 16). So your submission was blatantly false.

Maybe... (1)

c.r.o.c.o (123083) | more than 13 years ago | (#428048)

Well, I've been using Mozilla as my main browser for quite some time. Ok, ok... Just for the past month! And I like it.

I just hope this version won't have the memory leaks of the past version. 0.7 managed to crash my box about 4 times. I mean _really_ crash it. 4.something CPU usage, 247Mb of RAM and 127Mb of swap used (that is all the memory in my box). The only remedy was a hard reset (none of the usual Ctrl+Alt+... keystrokes, kill -9, nothing else would work).

Well, there's always hope. :)

You know what would make me switch to Moz? (3)

Horizon_99 (58767) | more than 13 years ago | (#428049)

If they could put an option to disable those !"/$£@23$ javascript popup windows without disabling javascript. I mean come on just try this site [wallpaper.as] then wait 5 seconds and count how many windows you have to close! Nuts! ;-)

--
We are In an internet world with no borders nor fences, who needs windows and gates...

Re:The buggiest software ever .. (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#428050)

By opening up the development process and setting up one of the best bug management database (which is also open to the public), it automatically means that Mozilla is the buggiest software? Then maybe everyone should just close up their source and their development status, and there would be no bugs at all.

The bug you refered to loads fine in my Mozilla 0.8

Re:Choices! (2)

wroot (264810) | more than 13 years ago | (#428051)

Maybe you are just getting more and more used to its slowness and bugginess.

It's 1am. What do you expect from me?

Wroot

MS will exploit IE, and that will push users away (3)

astrashe (7452) | more than 13 years ago | (#428052)

I think it's really important to keep other options alive.

IE is a great browser, but it lacks some important features. It's hard to control javascript, for example, and you can't turn off animated gifs. I don't think that's accidental. If you let people turn off the ads, the advertisers won't be happy, and as a good multi-national corporate citizen, MS probably won't want to do anything to jeopardize the platform's value to advertisers.

There's no way (at least no easy way) to convert a real video file into something you can edit or recompress. Why? It's a feature that content providers want. To me it's a bug. I can understand Real doing that, and having a proprietary data format comes in handy.

More and more I think we're going to see these large companies deliberately crippling our tools for the benefit of content providers. But that only works with proprietary data formats and protocols. The web is still open.

The big story in advertising is pop-up windows. If Mozilla bills itself as the browser that helps you defeat that annoying ads, a lot of people will respond to it. And a lot of people will put up with annoying little errors as they get worked out, because the pop-up windows are incredibly annoying. MS isn't going to do that. They'll never side with their users over the content providers. That leaves a niche.

As for me, the ability to turn off animated gifs will be enough to make me switch. Those things really bug me.

All of these ads are going to get worse and worse. Mozilla should bill itself as the answer. It is the answer. And we need it.

RE: Good point but.. (1)

ryancooley (248760) | more than 13 years ago | (#428053)

While you have a good point, not everything about UI design is 'pain'. There are times when you want to do the inverse and turn javascript back on, go to another page, etc. Your idea is only good in your narrow explanation of the problem. The internet is much more complex than a mosquito.

Re:You know what would make me switch to Moz? (3)

sab39 (10510) | more than 13 years ago | (#428054)

Read the release notes of 0.8, it's listed right there under "new features".

You can even disable opening new windows when a website specifies target="_blank" on a link.

Stuart.

Re:daily builds (1)

phantomlord (38815) | more than 13 years ago | (#428055)

FWIW, I just grabbed the latest daily and it now allows me to disable the system colors...

Re:New question... (2)

bartok (111886) | more than 13 years ago | (#428059)

Yeah but the problem is that gtk-mozembed doesn't include cookie management so if you want to have a usable browser, you have to implement it yourself. That's why Galeon still doen't support cookies.

Re:New question... (2)

Ben Hutchings (4651) | more than 13 years ago | (#428061)

That's the way Mozilla works. It's packaged together, but the major components are separated out so they won't be loaded until they're needed. You could probably delete the corresponding files without breaking Mozilla, though you'd want to remove the corresponding buttons and menu items from the chrome (UI).

Re:MS will exploit IE, and that will push users aw (3)

pb (1020) | more than 13 years ago | (#428062)

I think browsers should be more customizable with what they allow the users to do.

For instance, why can't I bind a button to turn off animated gifs, cookies, and JavaScript? Microsoft considered making a similar button in IE, but stopped when people started calling it "The Porn Button". But if that's what users want, they should be able to do it.

The web is becoming overrun with proprietary data formats and protocols, but at least the open ones do get more popular. Notice the popularity of mp3's, Shockwave Flash, DivX-encoded movies, and mpegs. That's because there are at least players out there for everyone, and the tools aren't too hard to find.

Pop-up windows and banners don't necessarily work; web advertising needs a different model that doesn't involve annoying the consumer. Maybe product placement would work somewhat better, or text ads like Google, or little "sponsored by" buttons.

Personally, I use junkbuster to get rid of ads; it's also cross-platform, and cross-browser compatible, and works rather well.
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu] .

Re:0.8 versus 1.0... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#428065)

Netscape's incompetence indeed, especially since most of the programmers working on Mozila are Netscape programmers.. More like Netscape 6.0 was released a few months too early.

Pop-up disabling now possible (5)

jpatokal (96361) | more than 13 years ago | (#428066)

If they could put an option to disable those !"/$£@23$ javascript popup windows without disabling javascript.

Well, then it's time to switch to Moz. Quoting the 0.8 release notes [mozilla.org] :

There are several new hidden prefs (UI will be added eventually) to turn off various annoying features on web pages:

// Use configurable security policies to override popups, see
// http://www.mozilla.org/projects/security/component s/configPolicy.html
// Turn window.open off for particular sites:

user_pref("capability.policy.popupsites.sites", "http://www.annoyingsite1.com http://www.popupsite2.com");
user_pref("capability.policy.popupsites.windowinte rnal.open","noAccess");

// Or turn it off everywhere:
user_pref("capability.policy.default.windowinterna l.open","noAccess");

// Override popping up new windows on target=anything
user_pref("browser.target_new_blocked", true);

Cheers,
-j.

gif? its all about Popup's (1)

sPaKr (116314) | more than 13 years ago | (#428067)


blech, anitmated gifs behaving isnt a story.

But stoping the popup bombs, let me be the first to say Thank you Jesus You can now stop popups, the one and only hack that I wanted to see come from open source mozilla and its finally in the tree. Kick Ass, read about it at Here [mozilla.org]

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