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Apple Switches (Mostly) To OpenStreetMap

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the wonder-about-the-gracenote-problem dept.

IOS 218

beelsebob writes "In the recent release of iPhoto for iOS it appears that Apple has started using OpenStreetMap's data. Unfortunately, there are still some problems. Apple is currently not applying the necessary attribution to OSM; they are using an old (from April 2010) dump of the data; and they are not using the data in the U.S. Fingers crossed that Apple works through these issues quickly! Apple is now one of a growing list (including geocaching, and foursquare) to Switch2OSM."

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hahaha (-1, Troll)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#39287869)

Anyone want to bet me a dollar they won't give data back? I'll take the first comer.

Re:hahaha (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39287953)

They will but only after 2-3 month of hard complaining.
Of course they will be considered as "Generous Donator"

Re:hahaha (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39288137)

Yeah. Because Apple never gives back to the digital community. Oh. Wait. http://www.apple.com/opensource/

So, yeah, I'll take that bet.

MOD PARENT DOWN!!111!!!!! (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39288421)

MOD PARENT DOWN!11!!!! He is telling the truth, instead of spewing blind hate! This will not do on Slashdot.

Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate! Hate!

Re:MOD PARENT DOWN!!111!!!!! (5, Insightful)

marcello_dl (667940) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288867)

The past story with khtml webkit, and the recent story about apple-only planned features in CUPS, and the general attitude of big and small commercial entities towards free software, should make people just a little wary.

Re:MOD PARENT DOWN!!111!!!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39289117)

At least they support web standards, instead of attempting to shove Pepper/NaCl/Dart down everyone's throats.

Re:MOD PARENT DOWN!!111!!!!! (1, Interesting)

danbob999 (2490674) | more than 2 years ago | (#39289437)

Yeah, web "standards" such as iMessage and Facetime.

Re:MOD PARENT DOWN!!111!!!!! (2, Informative)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#39289155)

The past story with khtml webkit, and the recent story about apple-only planned features in CUPS, and the general attitude of big and small commercial entities towards free software, should make people just a little wary.

Simple roadmap for you: If it is within Apple's Patents they are stingy. When it is outside of Apple's Patents they can be very generous.

Re:MOD PARENT DOWN!!111!!!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39289461)

The past story with khtml webkit, and the recent story about apple-only planned features in CUPS, and the general attitude of big and small commercial entities towards free software, should make people just a little wary.

Simple roadmap for you: If it is within Apple's Patents they are stingy. When it is outside of Apple's Patents they can be very generous.

You mean, like when it's someone elses patents?

Re:hahaha (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39288851)

I'm unsure what that URL is meant to show because all it shows to me is that they include open-source software as part of OS X. We know that. It's what this article is about.

Your comment was related to whether Apple contribute code back. That page has no information about Apple returning code at all. Stop spreading misinformation.

Now, the facts.

Apple contribute code back. A fair bit of code has been accepted into FreeBSD from Apple. Do they contribute back as much as they should, ethically? That's debatable, personally I'd say no. Recently they're reducing their open-source efforts too (CUPS).

Why can't people just discuss things normally rather than having all this pro-Apple / anti-Apple garbage?

Re:hahaha (4, Interesting)

samkass (174571) | more than 2 years ago | (#39289095)

WebKit, LLVM/clang, and yes, they even did a lot for CUPS, and zillions of bugfixes across many products. And if you're an OS wonk, you can even look at the entire MacOS X kernel source code and borrow if you'd like, as well as many of the low-level processes that make MacOS interesting. It's true that many of these were not taken up by other products, but that's hardly Apple's fault.

Re:hahaha (3, Informative)

Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288855)

Strangely, that list doesn't have Webkit or LLVM on it. That's by far their two greatest contributions. Webkit, one might note was based off of exsiting project KHTML. The history there wasn't good. They essentially ignored the existing community around KHTML, took the code modified it with all sorts of OSX only hooks, released that to comply with the license (GPL or LGPL). Then a couple years later they did it the correct way and created the webkit open source project. Konqueror now defaults to the Webkit implimentation and all is well. Although, google isn't that much better at working with existing open source communities, if you look at chromium browser.

So, yeah, there is still an uneasy feeling when it comes to Apple and open source projects.

Re:hahaha (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39289167)

They essentially ignored the existing community around KHTML, took the code modified it with all sorts of OSX only hooks, released that to comply with the license (GPL or LGPL).

The KHTML community can go fuck themselves. If they can't use Apples changes then tough shit. That's not Apple's problem.

Re:hahaha (1)

bemymonkey (1244086) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288279)

Even if they don't, having them bet on an easily user-updateable mapping system is pretty cool.

That said, OSM here in Germany is a bit disappointing. I've been adding a few locations around my neighborhood, but OSM based navigation apps are still pretty bad in terms of accuracy and actually finding house numbers :(

Re:hahaha (4, Interesting)

beelsebob (529313) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288363)

Wait really? Germany? Poor maps on OSM? The german mappers go into insane level of detail –take a look at Berlin [openstreetmap.org] for example.

Re:hahaha (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39288625)

The problem with German GPS is it only gives you directions to Warsaw.

Re:hahaha (1)

bemymonkey (1244086) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288819)

If I lived in Berlin, I might have noticed that earlier. What's missing for me is consistency - if I need to go somewhere that's nearly off the grid (but still easily findable with Google Maps, i.e. there's cell reception and everything :p), there's a pretty decent chance that I won't be able to get there with an OSM based app. A lot of the problems are from the front end, though, so not entirely OSM's fault...

Re:hahaha (3, Interesting)

beelsebob (529313) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288939)

The same is true of google maps though. Compare Vladivostok on Google Maps [google.com] to on OpenStreetMap [openstreetmap.org] for example.

Re:hahaha (1)

bemymonkey (1244086) | more than 2 years ago | (#39289137)

Not here in Germany. I can navigate ANYWHERE with Google Maps Nav these days... there hasn't been a single address I wasn't able to find.

I suppose it might just vary from country to country?

Re:hahaha (1)

dair (210) | more than 2 years ago | (#39289355)

You've probably just got lucky - commercial data is ahead of OSM in terms of addressing, however you will find errors in pretty much every country (roads that aren't there, roads with the wrong name, roads in the wrong place, etc).

If (when :-) you do find an error, please check it out on OSM and see what it looks like there - if it's wrong in OSM, you can at least fix it. :-)

Re:hahaha (1)

bemymonkey (1244086) | more than 2 years ago | (#39289471)

That's true, of course. It ticks me off when I find an error in Google Maps, because I have no idea what to do to fix it...

Re:hahaha (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39289403)

You mean "targeted public to targeted public" I suppose?

Re:hahaha (4, Funny)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288949)

You misunderstood his comment. From his perspective as a German, the attention to detail in OSM is lacking. I mean, in that example, there is no mention of where the nearest trash can is or where the stop signs are located.

I wish I was kidding. Germans are a unique breed when it comes to detail and rules.

Re:hahaha (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39288375)

Read the article again: "they are using an old (from April 2010) dump of the data"

Re:hahaha (1)

bemymonkey (1244086) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288839)

What exactly does that mean? Don't they update as the maps are added to?

Letter of the law, no more. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39288281)

Anyone want to bet me a dollar they won't give data back? I'll take the first comer.

If they're required to, they will. No sense in getting sued again.

If they're not, they probably won't, or will do so only on their terms.

Site is down, so I don't have a clue what exactly the license requires.

Re:hahaha (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39288303)

Ok, I'll cum in your mouth. Are you paying me $1 or charging me $1?

Re:hahaha (1)

timeOday (582209) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288419)

I suppose they will, simply because it would be a waste of their effort to maintain a fork, thus missing out on map updates from other parties. This is a naturally collaborative task. It's not like source code where patches from different parties are likely to have conflicts.

Re:hahaha (1)

samkass (174571) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288619)

Anyone want to bet me a dollar they won't give data back? I'll take the first comer.

I'm dying to know if you typed that in from a WebKit-based browser...

Re:hahaha (1, Insightful)

fermion (181285) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288815)

The question is what has Google given back. Webkit has given some code back to KHTML. WebKit2 is the open source alternative to chrome. While parts of chrome may be OSS, it is not like WebKit2, which is OSS. Certainly there would be no chrome without the development efforts of Apple.

This is not to say that Apple has not closed some projects. They have. But Google business model depends on acquiring public property, repackaging it, closing it, and suppling it for ad revenue and other compensation.

Re:hahaha (3, Informative)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 2 years ago | (#39289101)

parts of chrome may be OSS

True, but misleading. It's more like "small parts of chrome are proprietary". Almost all of it OSS and included in Chromium [chromium.org] .

The V8 Javascript engine, for example, was all developed by Google and released under the BSD license.

Re:hahaha (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#39289123)

Anyone want to bet me a dollar they won't give data back? I'll take the first comer.

Think you might be off base here. Apple wants the user experience to be the best, not giving back would make theirs Second Best user experience. I could be wrong, but I think this is only a stepping stone and they'll be behind OSM.

OSM on Geocaching rocks. I just wish the MapquestArial wasn't such a steaming pile.

lol (4, Funny)

masternerdguy (2468142) | more than 2 years ago | (#39287931)

Apple not properly crediting others for their inventions! No way!

Re:lol (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39288083)

Apple not properly crediting others for their inventions! No way!

Does the OpenStreetMap require it? If not then OpenStreetMap can go fuck themselves.

Re:lol (4, Informative)

JonasH (183422) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288167)

It's under CC-BY-SA, which does. So yeah.

Re:lol (0)

AberBeta (851747) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288231)

It is no longer CC-BY-SA, but rather ODbL. See http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/We_Are_Changing_The_License [osmfoundation.org]

Re:lol (4, Informative)

dair (210) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288353)

It is not yet under ODbL - the licence changeover is planned for the 1st April 2012 (however Apple appear to be using data from circa 2010, which was definitely under CC-BY-SA).

Re:lol (1)

beelsebob (529313) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288391)

No, it's CC-BY-SA 2.0. It'll start the database transition to ODbL on april the first.

Re:lol (2)

Stewie241 (1035724) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288465)

Either way, according to my reading of ODbL (http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/summary/) they have to attribute and give back.

Re:lol (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39289207)

no, they can launder the data through a vector format which preserves the coordinates like PostScript. then they don't have to give anything back. or by the lack of defining what a substantial extract means. the new license is completely full of holes, and the new contributer terms don't explicitly protect the contributers. it's a real shame.

Re:lol (1)

dair (210) | more than 2 years ago | (#39289381)

This has been hashed out endlessly on the OSM mailing lists, and yours is definitely a minority viewpoint.

Re:lol (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39288485)

Actually, we're still CC-BY-SA, at least until April 1st.

Re:lol (3, Insightful)

dintech (998802) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288431)

From the article:

The OSM data that Apple is using is rather old (start of April 2010) ... It’s also missing the necessary credit to OpenStreetMap’s contributors; we look forward to working with Apple to get that on there.

So yes, they do require it.

Re:lol (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39288101)

what sprang to mind ?

Re:lol (4, Funny)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288211)

Bah. To have the honor of being a part of a glorious iProduct is all the recognition any puny NIH product could possibly desire, or conceivably deserve...

Re:lol (1)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288761)

"it appears that Apple"

"Appears" eh? I'll wait till we know for certain what maps they are using now before I worry about attribution. Apple have bought some mapping companies in recent years, on the face of it it seems more likely these maps are Apple's own.

Certainly in the comparative viewers that OSM are linking to, it doesn't look to me any more like OSM than it looks like Google Maps. All three look different in presentation, but similar in content.. given that they are all modelling the same reality.

Waiting for proper evidence.

Re:lol (1)

beelsebob (529313) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288995)

Take a look at the comparison linked in the article. It's very clear that the data is identical to that found on OpenStreetMap in a lot of areas. The data is literally identical to the april 2010 planet dump.

My guess for what has happened here is that Apple thought that they bought the data when they bought some mapping company; but that it turns out the company they bought just ripped the data out of OSM.

Re:lol (5, Informative)

dair (210) | more than 2 years ago | (#39289083)

The map tiles are certainly Apple's own - they have defined their own stylesheet, with their own look.

However the map data those tiles were rendered from appears to be a mix of TIGER in the US and OSM elsewhere. TIGER is a public domain dataset from the US Census Bureau, and OSM is CC-BY-SA.

Looking at the shape of the data is often enough to tell you where it came from. One one level it's modelling the same reality, but in practice mappers tend to make slightly different versions of "the same" object (a road might be smoothly curved, or quite angular, depending on how much effort they went to). As such you can quite easily see when data comes from the same source, even if it's rendered in a different style.

It's pretty conclusively OSM if you look at which small features [wordpress.com] (footpaths, lanes within a car park, etc) are rendered. This data isn't present in the commercial datasets you can licence from people like TomTom, however it is in OSM (neither Navteq nor TeleAtlas have footpaths, or this kind of micro-mapping of lanes within parking areas).

Based on things like this, typos which appear on both maps, and roads that are in OSM now but aren't in Apple's tiles - it looks pretty clear that they used a snapshot of OSM, specifically one from early April 2010.

Maps? (3, Insightful)

Azureflare (645778) | more than 2 years ago | (#39287993)

I didn't see any mention in the article about Apple switching to OSM in their maps app. If/when they do, I hope they implement a mechanism for submitting updates to OSM, since that is a big strength.

I'm ambivalent about Apple making this change; google maps has done pretty well, but sometimes it gets numeric addresses wrong on long beach ny and other areas.

One burning question: will we be able to get audible turn-by-turn directions if Apple moves to OSM?

Re:Maps? (1)

agentgonzo (1026204) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288175)

One burning question: will we be able to get audible turn-by-turn directions if Apple moves to OSM?

You can bet that if they do offer turn-by-turn directions then it'll only be available in the iPhone 5 when it gets released. Just to force everyone to upgrade again - the same way that Siri is technically capable of working on the iPhone 3/4 but is only available on the 4s.

Re:Maps? (2)

BorgDrone (64343) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288387)

the same way that Siri is technically capable of working on the iPhone 3/4 but is only available on the 4s.

The 4S contains better hardware for isolating voices and suppressing background noise at a distance, this is supposedly needed to make the Siri UX good enough for Apple's standards.

Re:Maps? (1)

agentgonzo (1026204) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288437)

this is supposedly needed to make the Siri UX good enough for Apple's standards.

As long as Apple have an excuse they'll use it to try and persuade people to upgrade. Siri would have worked on the iPhone 4. Yes, it would have worked better on the 4S but I'd be astonished if the reason it was not on the 3G/3GS/4S was technical and not marketing.

Re:Maps? (4, Insightful)

samkass (174571) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288543)

this is supposedly needed to make the Siri UX good enough for Apple's standards.

As long as Apple have an excuse they'll use it to try and persuade people to upgrade. Siri would have worked on the iPhone 4. Yes, it would have worked better on the 4S but I'd be astonished if the reason it was not on the 3G/3GS/4S was technical and not marketing.

Really? It would honestly astonish you that Siri would require any development, testing, QA, integration, sales, administrative, or other costs? It would be completely free? Or do you not consider paying for engineering talent a "technical" cost? Because otherwise, it makes a lot of sense for Apple to invest money on their profitable products instead of their old ones. Apple already does so much better than Android, Windows Mobile, and others at supporting old hardware with the latest releases that I see little room for complaint. The iPhone 3GS is many years old and yet got iOS 5.1 the day it was released!

Re:Maps? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39288711)

You seem to have proved his point for him there - that the newer and better features are only on the newer models because it's a business decision (and quite justifiable to boot) to not spend the money supporting the older models rather than a technical limitation of the old hardware.

Re:Maps? (4, Informative)

beelsebob (529313) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288417)

I'm in the process of implementing an editor and viewer for iOS called OpenStreetPad [slashdot.org] , if you love the idea, feel free to contribute!

Re:Maps? (3, Informative)

Azureflare (645778) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288641)

OpenStreetPad [github.com]

FTFY. Thanks, looks like a great project!

Buttholes! (-1, Troll)

For a Free Internet (1594621) | more than 2 years ago | (#39287995)

Only dopey middleclass buttholes use Appil.

Independence from Google (1)

munozdj (1787326) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288013)

So is this one more step to be independent from Google services? I don't see Apple starting their own search engine, but if they can get rid of the other Google products they use then it would let them do more things in iOS without Google having to explicitly allow it. In a kind of related rant, why does it have to be so hard to access StreetView info from an iPhone?

Re:Independence from Google (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39288241)

If they do, it will be a blatant ripoff of Googe with some pretentious name, Apple will claim they "Started a new category of internet search" and will charge you $2 per search. And Apple users will use it millions of times a day.

Cool, but... (3, Interesting)

Fnkmaster (89084) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288021)

OpenStreetMaps has generally good map data at this point, but their reverse geocoding (i.e. place data) is still very sparse compared to Google or Factual, etc. Would love to see a free, open database of comparable quality to the paid ones.

Re:Cool, but... (1)

AberBeta (851747) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288263)

Is geonames.org of comparable quality for you?

Re:Cool, but... (1)

Fnkmaster (89084) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288647)

Not even remotely close. They seem to do quite well with things like schools, churches, public buildings, but not at all so well with restaurants, shops, and commercial places. In the immediate vicinity of my office just adjacent to New York City, geonames has perhaps 1/10th of the number of places that Factual has.

Map Data Files (2)

Xphile101361 (1017774) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288079)

Having 60+ GB files of "open data" being shared seems like a perfect reason to use torrents. Anyone know a reason (technical or legal) for why they aren't?

Re:Map Data Files (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39288105)

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Planet.osm#BitTorrent

Re:Map Data Files (1)

Xphile101361 (1017774) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288369)

Ah. Was looking at http://planet.openstreetmap.org/ [openstreetmap.org] which seems to lack mention of that. Danke.

Traffic info (1)

key134 (673907) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288133)

Does OSM have traffic information as well? Even if they have the major roads, does it have the arterial streets like Google does? I use that information extensively on my commute.

Re:Traffic info (2)

Chninkel (1396241) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288329)

Does OSM have traffic information as well?

Not that I know, but maybe there will be an app for that

Even if they have the major roads, does it have the arterial streets like Google does? I use that information extensively on my commute.

In general yes but YMMV. It depends on the region: main cities in Europe and US are pretty well mapped whereas little village may have only their main road drawn. It really depends on where the users/editors of OSM live or what their interest is.

BTW if your commute is not mapped, you can just map it yourself, it's like wikipedia, but for maps and without the deletionist plague.

Re:Traffic info (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288741)

Given the little fuss over Apple's quiet-but-massive location tracking of cellular iDevices some time back, it would not be a total surprise to learn that they are planning on using their comparatively pervasive handsets in order to produce their own traffic data... If you have a street map, and you know how fast and in what direction the iDeviced commuters are moving, you may be able to draw useful inferences from there.

Re:Traffic info (1)

Edzilla2000 (1261030) | more than 2 years ago | (#39289169)

AFAIK, that's exactly what google is currently doing.

Re:Traffic info (1)

AvitarX (172628) | more than 2 years ago | (#39289313)

I would hope even.

I pretty much assumed that when I drive with a map open on my android, Google is making traffic data. I had to sign something about location information, the app uses data, and location permissions, it shouldn't be a surprise at all.

Re:Traffic info (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39288331)

All OSM does is distribute geographic data. We're not in the business of building full service stacks. The point of open data is that YOU can do whatever you need with it. But yes, someone has made a crowdsourced traffic information site. It's only as good as the number of people using it which isn't very many as it was just announced for beta in January: trafficspeed.org [trafficspeed.org]

Punctuation weirdness (2)

oldmac31310 (1845668) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288235)

Took me a while to figure out 'U.S. Fingers crossed'.

Subterfuge (1)

theoneknuckles (608389) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288237)

My guess is that they are using OSM as a cover until they are ready later this year to release whatever Poly9, C3 Technologies and others have come up with. Cook did say there was more coming throughout the year.

------------------
psdcovers.com [psdcovers.com]

OSM complete coverage (5, Informative)

agentgonzo (1026204) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288239)

Whilst OSM is very good for free data, there are still pockets of areas where the coverage is very poor indeed. I had to map out half of my uncle's town as it just wasn't there on OSM (about 9 months ago). At every stage, it's getting better, but the more 'big players' that start to switch to it, the more momentum it will get and the better the coverage will be as more contributors flow in.

This is especially the case as parts of the OSM dataset are about to be wiped out due to the forthcoming remapping [openstreetmap.org] .

Re:OSM complete coverage (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39288579)

What I don't get about OSM is why they chose to exclude elevation data, even though GPS devices can tell you elevation? It's a map of a flat world, which means topological modelling can't be done using that data, which is a shame.

Re:OSM complete coverage (3, Informative)

beelsebob (529313) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288665)

OSM doesn't exclude elevation data. You can tag any node you like as "ele="... But, 1) most nodes in OSM are not created directly from GPS traces, but instead by inputting a cleaned up version, because the GPS data is a bit noisy 2) GPS is very bad at gathering height data –it's roughly 20 times less accurate for height data than for horizontal location.

Re:OSM complete coverage (1)

dair (210) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288779)

GPS devices normally have much worse vertical accuracy than horizontal, unless they have a barometric altimeter.

OSM's database currently just holds latitude and longitude for objects, and you can tag things with a z-level to indicate when something is over or under something else. For 99.99% of objects, that's perfectly fine and sufficient for topological modelling (if you mean topological in the sense of the connections between objects, so that you can calculate a route from A-B-C-D).

For some objects a specific altitude might be worth recording, and since OSM uses an arbitrary key=value store for data you can easily record the altitude for a point if you think it's useful (you might want to record the elevation of a mountain peak, but you probably don't want to record the altitude of a post office or public toilet).

Using a key-value store means OSM has an inclusive data model; you can store whatever data you think might be useful, within reason.

Re:OSM complete coverage (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39288721)

The better link wrt the licence change is

http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/We_Are_Changing_The_License

Everybody that has at anytime contributed to OSM should read this and then agree to the new terms in their user account.

Re:OSM complete coverage (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39289081)

> Everybody that has at anytime contributed to OSM should
> read this and then agree to the new terms in their user account.

don't tell us what to agree to. the new terms are a steaming shit pile compared to the old one, with the whole change based on a false premise and misunderstanding of copyright law, and the new ones doing nothing to protect the data from oneway streeters. which is why the corportates love it.

Re:OSM complete coverage (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39289109)

I had to map out half of my uncle's town as it just wasn't there on OSM (about 9 months ago).

That being the entire point of OSM! Thank you for contributing.

Silly headline (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39288357)

They are using OpenStreetMap in one iOS photo editing application that costs $5. I would hardly call that "mostly switching." More like the first toe in the water.

http://switch2osm.org/ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39288493)

Error establishing a database connection

Re:http://switch2osm.org/ (1)

Phil Gregory (1042) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288557)

Slashdotted. They're working on getting the site back up. The gist of it is that OpenStreetMap only really provides raw map data and building a useful product on top of that data, whether it's map tiles like Apple's photo app is using or turn-by-turn navigation like Skobbler, takes a fair bit of work. switch2osm.org takes you through the basics of putting the OSM data to work for you.

Awful data (1)

Xenious (24845) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288633)

It is pretty sad that their dump is from 2010 because streets in my part of town that have been there since 2001 are not on the map. I say use Google. At least it is always up to date.

Re:Awful data (2)

Phil Gregory (1042) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288857)

In practice, OpenStreetMap is more up to date than Google for areas where locals know how to update it. That includes quite a lot of Europe (particularly Germany and England) and most metropolitan areas in the US. As more people learn about OpenStreetMap and begin using products that include OpenStreetMap data, that pool of up-to-date areas will grow. Basically, right now, there are areas where Google is better and areas where OpenStreetMap is better. (But where OSM is good, it's generally *very* good.) Also note that not only is Apple using really old OpenStreetMap data (the OSM database has more than doubled in size since April 2010), they're using US Census TIGER data in the US, which is often really, really bad.

Re:Awful data (1)

cellurl (906920) | more than 2 years ago | (#39289131)

Hi Phil,
Why don't you help us at wikispeedia.org ?
We could use a cruisecontrol iphone app.... or whatever talent you possess...

-cellurl

Re:Awful data (2)

agentgonzo (1026204) | more than 2 years ago | (#39289031)

Google is up-to-date, but in some cases it's completely wrong. They've recently changed from buying in map data from one source to amalgamating it from many many sources. This provides a headache for google as they can't manually fix things that are wrong as the fixes will be overwritten by the automated amalgamation in a week's time or so.

Take for example Normansland [g.co] . There is no place in the New Forest called Normansland. There is one up the road called Nomansland (without the 'r') but for some reason Google has this mythical 'Normansland' in its dataset (in a different place from Nomansland!) and can't easily get rid of it. Their mapping data will get better as the work on it, but in the last year or so it has actually gone downhill.

Re:Awful data (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39289359)

I remember once following a map printed out that same day from Google Maps and finding myself looking through a wire fence down an embankment at 6 lanes of dual carriageway. Maybe they've improved their keeping-up-to-date, but I wouldn't blindly trust them.

Re:Awful data (2)

agentgonzo (1026204) | more than 2 years ago | (#39289447)

Did it not automatically reroute when you discovered the.... oh... nevermind.

Are they sure? (2)

d*m*int (1548421) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288689)

How is OpenStreetMap determining that Apple's using their data versus a similar data set from a different source? I haven't seen anything about their methodology for coming to the conclusion that it's OpenStreetMap data. How easy is it to pin down map data to a specific provider?

Re:Are they sure? (1)

DerickR (2591155) | more than 2 years ago | (#39288961)

It's not very difficult if you compare interesting (and not fully done paths) in parks. For example here: http://ivan.sanchezortega.es/leaflet-apple.php?lat=51.53912864704142&lon=-0.20796775817871094&z=14 [sanchezortega.es] Check the paths in Paddington Cemetary. They are not completely in OSM; and Apple's tiles have the exact same data. Another point there, is the road classification of the road between Harvist Road and Kilburn Lane. OSM had it (wrongly) like the way Apple had only between Mar 22 and Apr 12, 2010: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/52186831/history [openstreetmap.org] . So with that info, we can even pinpoint the age of their data.

Re:Are they sure? (4, Informative)

Phil Gregory (1042) | more than 2 years ago | (#39289035)

There's a lot of data that's only in OpenStreetMap, as compared to the other big map data providers like Navteq. In addition to roads, OpenStreetMap has bicycle paths, pedestrian paths, hiking trails, and a host of other things that are not generally collected in other general-purpose road databases. At least one person on the OSM mailing lists has pointed to an area where he added some but not all of the hiking trails in an area and Apple is showing only the trails he added to OpenStreetMap. Even more conclusive, though, is that when you overlay the two on each other, such as at http://ivan.sanchezortega.es/leaflet-apple.php [sanchezortega.es] , there are quite a lot of places where the data matches exactly--not just "both have a road here", but "every point making up Apple's road lies exactly on top of a point making up OpenStreetMap's road".

Google is the true devil (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39288973)

Google is evil for Mac developers and they use openstreetmap from a long time, even for tracking the space station:
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/international-space-station/id438177520

I hope Apple have better results than I did: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39288987)

Parse error: syntax error, unexpected $end in /srv/switch2osm.org/public/htdocs/wp-includes/functions.php on line 4687

Apple should get into the car business (0)

cellurl (906920) | more than 2 years ago | (#39289067)

Apple should get into the car business.
For starters, they could add SIRIc, SIRI for the car.

-cellurl
Speedlimit aware cruise control [goo.gl]

FQrist psot (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39289069)

Discus5ion I'm

Visual appearance of Google Maps is supreme (4, Interesting)

trptrp (2041816) | more than 2 years ago | (#39289085)

Every time I see a map rendered with different colors and a different style as Google Maps I immediately feel how much I prefer the Google Maps style. Is it only me or is the rendering really that refined that it's just so much easier to spot things and therefore feels better?

Just looked at my hometown (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39289251)

There are a couple of errors that I immediately see, such as a few streets that do not exist.

About two years ago I had a semi go through my backyard, it's a cul-de-sac with a dirt path behind it, and a road that was planned for but never built. Open Maps and Google used to show that the street connected.

Hope they still keep Google Maps.

Accuracy? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39289357)

WTF, the capital of Spain appears to me as "Los Madriles" instead of Madrid. "Los Madriles" is kind of a popular name of Madrid and its surroundings but it is by no means an official name....

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