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Is Onlive Pirating Windows and Will It Cost Them?

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the it's-better-to-beg-for-forgiveness-than-to-ask-for-permission dept.

Windows 225

An anonymous reader writes "When Onlive, the network gaming company, started offering not just Microsoft Windows but Microsoft Office for free on the iPad, and now on Android, it certainly seemed too good to be true. Speculation abounded on what type of license they could be using to accomplish this magical feat. From sifting through Microsoft's licenses and speaking with sources very familiar with them, the ugly truth may be that they can't."

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Are you sucking my frosty piss (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39296947)

and will you swallow? YES and YES!

Re:Are you sucking my frosty piss (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39297289)

thankyou sir, may i have another?

Re:Are you sucking my frosty piss (-1, Offtopic)

MisterMidi (1119653) | more than 2 years ago | (#39298047)

European or African?

Bummer. (-1, Offtopic)

DreadfulGrape (398188) | more than 2 years ago | (#39296981)

I've been thoroughly enjoying it.

They applied for a site license (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39297001)

Is it their fault that Microsoft didn't think they were literal when they wrote the planet Earth in as their location?

Re:They applied for a site license (5, Informative)

javascriptjunkie (2591449) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297603)

No, but there's no actual proof that onlive has done anything wrong. The terms are not public. When did we start accepting rampant speculation as journalism?

Re:They applied for a site license (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39297615)

I can see by your UID that you're new around here but, for fucks sake, don't come off like that much of a chump at the same time too. At any given time about half the articles on Slashdot are based on speculation.

Re:They applied for a site license (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39297629)

Contestant: What was the second day of publishing?

Alex: Correct, that's two thousand dollars for you and clears out the category.

Contestant: I'll take Bikini Bingo for 400.

Service Provider License Agreement (4, Informative)

jesseck (942036) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297035)

They are probably using the SPLA for this. That allows you to license software for your service on a monthly basis.

Re:Service Provider License Agreement (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39297071)

There is no SPLA for Windows 7.

Re:Service Provider License Agreement (5, Informative)

satchelmouth (1658393) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297099)

Windows 2008 Remote Desktop Services with Remote Desktop Experience pack (which gives you essentially a complete Win7 experience) is how you do it under SPLA. That would be legal under SPLA.

Re:Service Provider License Agreement (4, Interesting)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297183)

That's what is so weird:

MS will let you farm out 2k8 RDS sessions, with essentially all the trimmings that Win7 would be capable of over RDP, for the right money; but they simply Will Not Sell an SPLA to perform the (with contemporary virtualization and deduplicated storage backends) virtually identical act of farming out Win7 VMs.

I honestly find it rather puzzling. If they didn't offer 'desktopish' SPLAs at all, that'd be unpleasant of them; but would be a coherent 'no way are we letting thin clients take over' strategy. If they followed a 'we don't care how you do it, we just want to get paid per month, per seat' approach, that'd be similarly coherent.

As it is, though, there just doesn't seem to be a coherent logic behind the licensing terms.

Re:Service Provider License Agreement (3, Insightful)

jesseck (942036) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297281)

Another fucked up thing is Microsoft's own SPLA reps don't understand all the licensing details,leaving you guessing until their lawyers see what is happening. The best you can do is pretend you're under tje most draconian set of rules, which inhibits growth.

Re:Service Provider License Agreement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39297619)

Exactly. Try getting a straight answer from either MS or one of their reseller's (i.e. Ingram Micro) SPLA licensing "experts" and it quickly becomes a game of "Stump the Chump". Convoluted doesn't even come close to describing it.

Re:Service Provider License Agreement (5, Informative)

howardd21 (1001567) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297253)

I am with a Microsoft Gold Partner, and we host and use the SPLA. The fact is that they would need to use these licenses at a minimum:
* Remote Desktop SAL (6WC-00002) @ 3.45 a month
* Office Standard (021-08183) @ $10.30 a month


That is $13.75 a month per user they need to pay Microsoft + all the other costs for hardware, support, etc.

Re:Service Provider License Agreement (2)

HBI (604924) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297309)

Concurrent user, you mean. Think about it.

Re:Service Provider License Agreement (4, Informative)

DavidRawling (864446) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297443)

From what I recall, SPLA is not concurrent usage, it's "per account per month".

Re:Service Provider License Agreement (4, Informative)

jamesh (87723) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297575)

From what I recall, SPLA is not concurrent usage, it's "per account per month".

That's pretty much it. You count up the number of users that used the product over the month and tell Microsoft.

Re:Service Provider License Agreement (1)

TheSunborn (68004) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297587)

No. That is per user. (Read the linked article).

Re:Service Provider License Agreement (2)

Ion Berkley (35404) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297533)

$13.75/mo is chump change...let me tell you how much 250 engineers sat in down town Palo Alto costs per month...SGP is many things, but a fool is not one of them. ~$100M in and a $1.2B paper valuation means your lawyers spend a lot of time thinking thinks out before you act.

Re:Service Provider License Agreement (1)

jesseck (942036) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297133)

Then why is it on the price list and the vlsc? MS may not support spla for vdi , but it is an option.

Re:Service Provider License Agreement (5, Insightful)

symbolset (646467) | more than 2 years ago | (#39298147)

Speculating about the terms is useless. There is no requirement that this customer uses a standard license or terms. Like Nokia they may have a special deal where Microsoft pays THEM per activated user, and now Microsoft is saying "er, wait. This isn't going how we thought so let's draw your attention to Paragraph 752, subparagraph 17 which reads 'offer void under the following conditions' and under codicil 3 of the 4th amendment was added the text 'if we say so'." We don't, and won't know the terms so there's no point in talking about it.

OnLive should have known better. Nothing good comes of bargaining with the devil.

Who shives a git!!! (0, Flamebait)

SerpentMage (13390) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297055)

Seriously with Ubuntu Linux finally showing some decent polish and usability (yes yes I am referring to Unity which I have gotten used to) and OSX also available who really shives a git about Microsoft?

Let them drown in their cesspool! The problem of Microsoft is simple, they have tons of 20 year veterans in the middle tier running the show. These people believe that if we copy or provide similar features all will be ok on the USS Microsoft. What they don't realized is that they are fucked! With Windows 8 people will realize how dead this ship is. Sure Microsoft will still sell lots and lots of licenses to existing customers (can't underestimate their ability to squezze profits), but it is the next generation that will not pull along.

As somebody who used my last Windows operating system with Windows 7 I can say Microsoft is truly fucked! And I have been using Windows since 3.0 back in 1990!

Re:Who shives a git!!! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39297127)

Seriously with Ubuntu Linux finally showing some decent polish and usability (yes yes I am referring to Unity which I have gotten used to) and OSX also available who really shives a git about Microsoft?

Anyone who needs to run Windows-exclusive apps.

In other words, most businesses and their employees.

Re:Who shives a git!!! (5, Interesting)

eldorel (828471) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297407)

Anyone who needs to run Windows-exclusive apps.

In other words, most businesses and their employees.

I would argue quite the opposite, most business and employees actually only need a small subset of the features that Microsoft's products have, and most of these features have been replicated or improved upon by free software.

Especially where Office is concerned.

Re:Who shives a git!!! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39297483)

Yeah keep deluding yourself with that.

Re:Who shives a git!!! (2)

elfprince13 (1521333) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297515)

Hardly. There are lots of other productivity suites that are good in the baseline features, but those are almost certainly going to be MORE suitable for home than business users.

Re:Who shives a git!!! (5, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297525)

No open source software that I've seen handles docx halfway as well as Word 2007 and Word 2010. "Good enough", as in "this wordprocessing software is good enough for almost all needs" is a given, but that's not really the question. You're talking about sixteen or seventeen years of Office dominance here, coupled with Exchange. Do you understand the manpower that would be required to convert a large company from Office-Exchange to something else (assuming that something else was in fact an improvement in any real sense).

I'll concede right now that I loath Exchange. I hate it. I hate everything about. I hate how brittle aspects of it are, the bizarre dependencies with other systems like IIS which means if .NET/ASP takes a nosedive, your clients suddenly find out they've lost a whole lot of functionality. Believe me, I've had many sleepless nights over Windows because it's seemingly easy configurations are filled with pitfalls. I love the *nix world where you can got "cp worldsmostimportant.conf worldsmostimportant.conf.bak" and muck around to my hearts content with the config, knowing I can pretty much wipe out any changes by inverting the command and restarting the daemon. At heart, I'm a *nix man and have been for over two decades. I fit *nix and open source solutions in wherever I can.

But at the end of the day, my boss and my coworkers are expecting to walk in, log on to their Windows workstation, start up Outlook, work on their budget in Excel and read the latest business requirements documentation in Word. I hand them Zimbra and LibreOffice, and it's going to be nasty. Eventually I might calm the waters, but then someone is inevitably going to get some Word 2010 document with wild formatting and it's going to open up in LibreOffice like the dog just puked on the screen, and then I'm going to get demands for solutions, and the only solution is going to be "I guess we should have Word on there."

In the long term, Microsoft's dominance even in the business world will begin to wane, no doubt about it. As more tablets and smartphones make their way in, and the requirements of more open document standards and protocols become clear, things will change. But until then, and as ugly as it sometimes is, in the big world, Exchange-Office are still way ahead.

Re:Who shives a git!!! (2)

Jafafa Hots (580169) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297719)

And that's not even taking into account the fact that they might want to PRINT the document.

Printing on Linux is easy if you happen to have one of the supported printers and the driver is decent.

If your printer is older and works fine in Windows or Mac, or newer, but for whatever reason there's no linux driver for it, you're pretty much SOL.

Same goes for scanners.

Re:Who shives a git!!! (1)

Lehk228 (705449) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297875)

office printers typically support PCL

Re:Who shives a git!!! (3, Informative)

zakkie (170306) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297951)

Linux printing is easy and has been for some time. Ditto scanning. There are a few unsupported printers, but they're the real cheap pieces of shit.

Re:Who shives a git!!! (3, Interesting)

TooMuchToDo (882796) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297869)

I migrated 80 people from Exchange to Google Apps, Office to LibreOffice, etc. It can be done, you just need support from management.

Outlook? Web-based Google Apps mail. Calendar? Same thing. Office? LibreOffice. The only internal servers we have left are 2 AD servers and a fileserver; I plan on moving that to Box.net/Dropbox/Gdrive at some point.

Re:Who shives a git!!! (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297927)

In other words your pushing it out on to the cloud, which is fine when the solution is available. It's not in our case due to legal considerations, and beyond that Google Apps has a long ways to go before it's reasonably decent at handling complex documents.

I suspect your requirements are very modest indeed.

Re:Who shives a git!!! (0)

TooMuchToDo (882796) | more than 2 years ago | (#39298011)

I suspect your requirements are very modest indeed.

Don't confuse needless complexity with complexity. I'd wager you'd be hard pressed to find a doc LibreOffice can't open that Office 2003/2007/2010 created.
Also, "legal considerations" is a filmsy argument (unless you're insinuating EU vs US privacy laws with regards to data). Many a law firm rely on Google Apps for services, as well as all sizes of government.

Re:Who shives a git!!! (2)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 2 years ago | (#39298181)

"Legal considerations" as in major contract strictly prohibits using Google, and while .doc support is at a reasonable level, .docx support just plain sucks.

Re:Who shives a git!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39298233)

I found one.

Someone using LibreOffice opened a report from a certifications tester, then saved it again and sent it to be printed for presentation. All the diagrams in it were rotated 90 degrees, and the formatting was completely wrecked when we tried to rotate them back. We had to go back to the original documents to actually sort it out.

LibreOffice is mostly there. Not all the way. And it does matter sometimes.

Re:Who shives a git!!! (1)

Sylak (1611137) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297985)

if you're pushing them to Google apps, why even push LibreOffice at all instead of Google docs?
(not trolling, legitimately curious)

Re:Who shives a git!!! (1)

TooMuchToDo (882796) | more than 2 years ago | (#39298025)

I find Google Docs to be no where near as good as LibreOffice. I can show employees LibreOffice, and almost all are up and running as if it was Office same day. Google Docs simply lacks a large amount of functionality in comparison to Office and LibreOffice.

You'd think Google would've spent more time refining Docs to be a more worthy Office competitor.

Re:Who shives a git!!! (1)

mcrbids (148650) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297973)

I'm honestly curious as to what experiences you've had with Zimbra not working well as an Exchange replacement. The OSS edition is fine as a web-based mail client, but the Enterprise edition with all the Outlook connectors and seamless integration with IOS/Android is mightily impressive.

Re:Who shives a git!!! (1)

Kalriath (849904) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297703)

Well, looking at all the software I have installed at work, 100% of it either has shitty or no open source and/or Linux equivalent (exempting Windows itself from this assertion).

Re:Who shives a git!!! (1)

TooMuchToDo (882796) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297857)

Very true. Most of our staff of 80 people get by with Chrome and LibreOffice. This excludes developers (Visual Studio) and Production folk (Adobe Creative Suite). The developers are all using Visual Studio through Win2k8 Remote Desktop services on their Macbooks, and we're working towards having them develop completely in browser-based IDEs. We eventually plan on having only Windows on the server side (SQL server, CruiseControl CI autobuild environment).

Yeah, you're going to be able to phase Microsoft out of your business unless a) you're depending on them for your server-side applications or b) you're tied to them because of some 3rd party/VAR application. The future is web-based apps and mobile, and frankly we're pretty much there.

Re:Who shives a git!!! (3, Insightful)

kelemvor4 (1980226) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297745)

Seriously with Ubuntu Linux finally showing some decent polish and usability (yes yes I am referring to Unity which I have gotten used to) and OSX also available who really shives a git about Microsoft?

Anyone who needs to run Windows-exclusive apps.

In other words, most businesses and their employees.

Don't forget anyone who wants to play recent video games.

Re:Who shives a git!!! (1)

symbolset (646467) | more than 2 years ago | (#39298159)

We're talking here about OnLive. In addition to Windows and Office they also stream recent PC games to your iOS or Android device.

Re:Who shives a git!!! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39297193)

Seriously with Ubuntu Linux finally showing some decent polish and usability (yes yes I am referring to Unity which I have gotten used to) and OSX also available who really shives a git about Microsoft?

For niggers and faggots, respectively. Real mean use Slackware without a DM.

Re:Who shives a git!!! (3, Interesting)

thoughtspace (1444717) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297211)

Well, everyone is different. I can't stand OSX and Ubuntu. So what!
As a contractor, I have to work in all of them - they are all as bad (or good) as each other. Just different.
Also, the users bitch about each of them equally.

Re:Who shives a git!!! (0)

Gideon Wells (1412675) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297359)

Windows 8 is kind of looking interesting? They still have the beta running, right? I'm kind of interested in checking it out. Windows 7 is working well for me as well. I say Microsoft has actually found a decent niche. They are the middleware, the average. As long as they have Ubuntu and Apple keeping them from becoming too complacent their products do well enough.

You want something more open, more versatile than an Apple OS? You have Linux and Windows.

You want something that works without caring about being able to tweak every little last doodad. You don't care about being able to use the CLI. You don't care about open or proprietary as long as it works, or because you admit unless you want to read every last line of code it might as well be proprietary to you in terms of openness? You have Windows and Apple's OS.

Sometimes you need a truck capable of doing anything, lovingly kept running and tweaked in your own garage (Linux). Then there are times you want a polished, chic sportscar with someone else worrying about all the under the hood details and those specialty parts(Apple). Then there are times you just want a bloody car that looks alright, runs well and you don't mind/want to do much more than check the oil, tire pressure, and occasionally the transmission and break fluid levels (Windows).

Re:Who shives a git!!! (1)

Omestes (471991) | more than 2 years ago | (#39298021)

.... You don't care about being able to use the CLI.... You have Windows and Apple's OS.

Er... Apple's OS has a very nice CLI, actually, it's called Bash. Windows shell is a bit weak, but there are pretty popular work-arounds (cygwin).

Re:Who shives a git!!! (1, Insightful)

SchroedingersCat (583063) | more than 2 years ago | (#39298077)

Powershell runs circles around bash.

Re:Who shives a git!!! (5, Insightful)

symbolset (646467) | more than 2 years ago | (#39298165)

Those who ignore Unix are doomed to reimplement it, poorly.

Re:Who shives a git!!! (1)

flimflammer (956759) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297637)

who really shives a git about Microsoft?

Most of the business work. The PC gaming world.

A lot of people.

Re:Who shives a git!!! (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297867)

If they don't know it's dead, it isn't dead.

from TFA (4, Informative)

sdnoob (917382) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297079)

(i know, i know.. i will punish myself later)

Joe Matz, Corporate Vice President of Licensing and Pricing went on the record with âoeWe are actively engaged with OnLive with the hope of bringing them into a properly licensed scenario, and we are committed to seeing this issue is resolved.â

i read this as being: onlive is not presently legit but microsoft is playing nice (i.e. squeezing them for every last nickel without involving more than a few lawyers) for now -- until they lose patience (or feel threatened by being beating to market by an upstart.. not once but twice) and bring the sledgehammer down on onlive's entire business model -- windows and office desktop and gaming platform (xbox and windows games, at least)

Re:from TFA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39297143)

They'll throw down the hammer only if they feel they can provide the same service with more profits for themselves.

If they don't come up with anything by the end of the year, it's unlikely they'll attempt to crush OnLive because it'll be a hell of a gamble at that point in the game.

Re:from TFA (1)

NicknameAvailable (2581237) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297411)

(i know, i know.. i will punish myself later)

Joe Matz, Corporate Vice President of Licensing and Pricing went on the record with âoeWe are actively engaged with OnLive with the hope of bringing them into a properly licensed scenario, and we are committed to seeing this issue is resolved.â

i read this as being: onlive is not presently legit but microsoft is playing nice (i.e. squeezing them for every last nickel without involving more than a few lawyers) for now -- until they lose patience (or feel threatened by being beating to market by an upstart.. not once but twice) and bring the sledgehammer down on onlive's entire business model -- windows and office desktop and gaming platform (xbox and windows games, at least)

For all the hatred out there against Microsoft and calling foul whenever they defend their interests (even in this article, oddly enough) - they are treating some thieves pretty nicely in this instance.

Re:from TFA (1)

the_B0fh (208483) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297539)

And you know they're a thief because...? Someone already showed how they could be properly licensed.

Re:from TFA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39298125)

"Could be" is not "currently are". When you get nabbed halfway across the parking lot with the TV you didn't pay for, you should expect the police. They don't have to let you go back in to pay for it.

Re:from TFA (1)

TooMuchToDo (882796) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297885)

Sooooo OnLive will be moving to LibreOffice shortly?

Test of the Emergency "THEM" network detectors (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39297083)

âoebut do you know how to check and is there any point checking when we already know NSA/KGB, etc etc have the globe encircled with satellites?â

try lining your windows with tinfoil and check it after a few months. Youâ(TM)ll discover straight LINES and DOTS (tiny peep holes). This is with the tinfoil on the inside of the windowsâ(TM) surface, in-house/apartment. What causes this?

I believe most, if not all consumer computers and devices are, if not monitored, swept and mirrored by big bro using satellite technology.

One anonymous poster to pastebin, claiming to be representitive of Mossad, fired a shot across the bow of Anonymous and other hackers by saying, paraphrased, âoeAll of your hard drives are mirrored in (locations A,B,C as I forget which countries were mentioned) certain places on Earth anyway.

I find this to be true, Iâ(TM)ve used Microsoftâ(TM)s SysInternals programs to monitor processes and discovered my drives being swept, a chat program running I never installed and could find no trace of, files where they had the most interest were mp3 and graphics files, but they scraped the whole drive, and an iso creator/mirroring utility was running.

You only make it easier for them if you willingly install video streaming programs (VLC) with command line counterparts, music programs with command line counterparts, Office programs, which I noticed PDF files were being made in the background, and all of this activity was happening when I was monitoring a computer isolated from any wired/wireless/LAN network(s).

Google: Subversion Hack archive for a glimpse into this mysterious activity

Itâ(TM)s all about the waves.
==
âoeWell, if this is true or not, I cannot tell, because I use GNU/Linux,â

The same is true for *nix, you just have to have the right monitoring tools and know what to look for inside binaries which are easily messed with by injecting malware into them and tools used by âoeTHEMâ to obscure the code injected into the ELF binaries so as to avoid being picked up as malware.

One simple command you can use to check for modifications to your files:

sudo find /usr/bin -mtime -60

That will search /usr/bin for files modified within 60 minutes, adjust the command as needed for other directories and time frames.

ALWAYS generate sha256sums or better (NOT MD5 or SHA1) of your initial install and the LiveCD and store them on a READ ONLY media like a once writable CDROM. The free utility known as âoemd5deepâ offers more than md5 checksum generation and unlike the simple tools like sha256sum, sha1sum, etc., md5deepâ(TM)s options offer RECURSIVE and directory stripping options, perfect for backup on CDROMs.

Hereâ(TM)s one example out of many mysterious *nix trojans floating about:

- Linux/Bckdr-RKC
â"- http://caffeinesecurity.blogspot.com/2012/02/linuxbckdr-rkc-still-undetected.html [blogspot.com]

âoeFor those who arenâ(TM)t familiar with this trojan, an anonymous internet user has taken the time to put together a Pastebin post highlighting my research on this trojanâ: http://pastebin.com/DwtX9dMd [pastebin.com]

More questions without answers:

- Malware for Windows, *nux (and MacOSX?) which HIDES in FIRMWARE on routers, PCI and AGP cards and devices (including CD burners), system BIOS, MBRs, ethernet (nic) cards most if not all surviving hard drive wipes/formats and preloaded again and updated âoethrough-the-airâ mysteriously or when youâ(TM)ve plugged into the net.

- Ethernet cards using packet radio modules/protocols

- Linux distributions including LiveCDs including more modules than they need to run, especially for LiveCD purposes, including build essentials, dpkg-dev, ISDN drivers/modules (sometimes in multiple places, as binary files and as modules) and other modules including ham radio modules

- PCI and AGP rootkits which never leave (no antivirus scanner scans firmware on these cards and devices where most of the really serious malware resides)

Google on these topics for whitepapers and documentation up the yin yang, including ever popular DEFCON talks, papers, etc.

Also Google: Subversion hack archive (itâ(TM)s a website detailing mysterious trojans reinfecting computers NOT plugged into the net).

There are probably a ton of non-detectable Linux exploits in the wild. Many of the freely offered ones on some of the more whitehat/popular sites arenâ(TM)t detected. More are made and uploaded every day.

In my opinion, no electronic device is safe, especially not those whose builders FORCE your motherboard to have a preinstalled, unremovable network (nic) card, sound card (both can be exploited by ham radio modules/drivers/malicious related programs), video card, etc.

One possible solution to this madness would be to purchase ANCIENT computers (Apple II or Cmdre for example) and use open source networking code. Much of these older systems did not have a lot of built in networking devices and storage devices.

The ultimate solution is to avoid electronic devices completely (even TV and radio) and learn to love books and libraries again, but for most people that would be as painful as slitting their own necks like a chicken, they lust after their Facebook, smartphone, iphone, ipad, Twitter, Angry Birds, and other diversions.

Google the article: The Mind Has No Firewall (written by a solider, unless Iâ(TM)m mistaken), to expose how weak our minds are to (electronic) attack.

Visit: TheHiddenEvil.com : to learn more about âthe big gameâ which weâ(TM)re all enrolled in by birth.

Re:Test of the Emergency "THEM" network detectors (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39297847)

Great, thank you. My looney rant quota for today was a bit low,

I didn't know about Onlive before now... (-1, Troll)

Aethelred Unread (2567841) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297087)

but I'm going to get it and the fact that it may screw MS makes it a bit sweeter.

Re:I didn't know about Onlive before now... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39297177)

but I'm going to get it and the fact that it may screw MS makes it a bit sweeter.

Using Microsoft products is not screwing Microsoft. OnLive will go legit, they have no choice on the matter unless they kill the company. Microsoft will get their money and a heightened presence on the growing embedded market. Considering Microsoft is doing badly on embedded systems this is a great opportunity for them even if they gave free licenses for OnLive.

You want to help screw Microsoft? Don't use their products.

Re:I didn't know about Onlive before now... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39297449)

I wish I had a moderation point called '-1 Moron'.

Re:I didn't know about Onlive before now... (1)

flimflammer (956759) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297671)

Great! I'm sure Microsoft would be pleased to have another user!

They once said if someone pirates software, they want it to be their software that is pirated. You're just furthering their control.

real ugly truth (3, Insightful)

girlintraining (1395911) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297093)

, the ugly truth may be that they can't.

Well, no, not in your crappy backwater country, and not with some locked down hardware like an ipad. But in more sensible and advanced societies like, er, China, these kinds of things are readily available, and cheaper too.

Re:real ugly truth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39297215)

Well yes, but everybody knows no ingenuity or development could ever come out of China... [/sarcasm]

Re:real ugly truth (1)

cavreader (1903280) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297903)

They come out with a lot of ingenuity by cloning the tech from others, re-branding it, and selling it in the internal marketplace.

Re:real ugly truth (1, Interesting)

sideslash (1865434) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297243)

Well, no, not in your crappy backwater country, and not with some locked down hardware like an ipad. But in more sensible and advanced societies like, er, China, these kinds of things are readily available, and cheaper too.

Girl, you need more training. As messed up as our copyright and patent laws are, they are originally based on some very "sensible and advanced" ideas relating to a person's property and protection of individual rights. In China, human beings are largely regarded as disposable cattle. They can be jailed, suppressed, censored, and executed whenever the state decides to do so. Let me put it another way. I'll much happier put up with my government instituting silly policies like not allowing ripping of a DVD, than for my government to censor internet access to purely political/religious ideas, throw bloggers in jail for criticizing the government, etc.

Re:real ugly truth (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39297301)

False dichotomy.

Re:real ugly truth (3, Insightful)

girlintraining (1395911) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297489)

As messed up as our copyright and patent laws are

Stop. End of line. Thanks.

In China, human beings are largely regarded as disposable cattle

The United States was booted off the UN human rights committee and replaced by China out of its unwillingness to address fundamental problems like having the highest incarceration rate of any UN member nation, no journalist shield laws, carrying out a forced sterilization program on its citizens, and for numerous actions that are against the Geneva convention such as the torture of political prisoners and secret courts where people are indefinately detained or even executed.

I'll much happier put up with my government instituting silly policies like not allowing ripping of a DVD,

Under current legislation, downloading a song by Michael Jackson will earn you two more years in jail than the doctor who killed him. It's not a "silly" policy: It is a policy which is being selectively enforced, very often against scientifically and technically literate individuals who, as a community, generally have a more critical opinion of the government and maintain a more "liberal" mindset. In short: The laws is being used as a political weapon.

So don't give me that shit about how I need more training, you condescending jerk.

Re:real ugly truth (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39297785)

The United States was booted off the UN human rights committee and replaced by China out of its unwillingness to address fundamental problems like having the highest incarceration rate of any UN member nation, no journalist shield laws, carrying out a forced sterilization program on its citizens, and for numerous actions that are against the Geneva convention such as the torture of political prisoners and secret courts where people are indefinately detained or even executed.

Source? According to the Human Rights Council's website [ohchr.org] , the US and China are both current members.

Also, although the US has no federal shield laws for journalists, most states do (and I really doubt China has any).

Clearly the US government has committed human-rights abuses, but are you seriously arguing that China has a better record on human rights than the US?

Re:real ugly truth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39297863)

>The United States was booted off the UN human rights committee and replaced by China
Which right there shows what a crock of sh_t the UN is. By any reasonable standard China is orders of magnitude worse on human rights than the US. You anti-us guys can insert your usual crapola but try moving to china and stating some anti government slogans there publicly and you'll experience the difference first hand, lol.

Re:real ugly truth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39298191)

The US is presently on the UN Human Rights Council through May; it is unknown whether in May the US will be re-elected onto it. But there's a limit of being on there two terms in a row. So I think you're throwing about some hyperbole. Sure, there are human rights abuses here, selective enforcement of laws, and an excessive incarceration rate, and it sure looks like Northern Europe is doing a whole lot better than the US on a whole bunch of metrics. But comparing to China and others? ....

Re:real ugly truth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39297655)

they are originally based on some very "sensible and advanced" ideas relating to a person's property and protection of individual rights.

I think they're more to benefit society than to benefit individuals. Their purpose is to encourage innovation. Why do you think they're only supposed to last for a limited time? 10-15 years should be the absolute max for copyright.

Re:real ugly truth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39297765)

As messed up as our copyright and patent laws are, they are originally based on some very "sensible and advanced" ideas relating to a person's property and protection of individual rights.

Absolutely and completely wrong. Copyright and patent laws are not based on any sort of individual rights. They are a restriction of individual rights, tolerated because they "promote the Progress of Science and Useful Arts".

Re:real ugly truth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39298093)

Guantanamo and that Manning chap. Your government does do all the bad things you say. After that all that remains in your position is propaganda and racism.

Re:real ugly truth (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39297401)

China, these kinds of things are readily available, and cheaper too.

Despite your trolling, you're right.

You can get Windows easier and cheaper in China even if it's streaming.

It's a lot easier to do things when you ignore patents and licenses.

Onlive Knew All Along (0)

Finerva (1822374) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297113)

The trick when you're planning to do something like this is to pick a large organization like Microsoft so that by the time they realize you're trolling they're licensing system you've made enough money to survive the lawsuits.

EC2 (2)

jspenguin1 (883588) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297121)

If Amazon EC2 can license Windows, surely OnLive can. Microsoft won't turn down an opportunity to make more money.

Re:EC2 (3, Informative)

Amouth (879122) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297251)

I agree with you except the issue is Windows 7.. MS offers licences for things like EC2 and SPLA for Server OS and software - but not for Windows 7 desktop OS.. the fact that Onlive provides a Windows 7 interface over a 2008R2 is what is odd and likely to cause them problems.

Article is mistaken about Office licenses (1)

satchelmouth (1658393) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297141)

Yes, many MS products can be licensed on a per processor basis under SPLA. Microsoft Office is not one of these. SPLA is actually the easiest of MS's licensing offerings to understand and comply with. A pity they didn't check the article content with anyone who knows anything about it.

Re:Article is mistaken about Office licenses (3, Informative)

digitalpro (2504422) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297767)

Actually, there are several different Microsoft documents which say precisely that Office can be licensed per processor. However, I couldn't find anyone who had actually done it that way. So for the article I listed the license as a possibility, since I couldn't exclude it, but not a probability, since no one could confirm it. For example, the SPLA datasheet explicitly cites Office as being available per processor: download.microsoft.com/download/7/a/a/.../spla_datasheet.pdf. If you can prove that the datasheet is wrong, we can certainly update the article, otherwise the insults ring pretty hollow.--David Cardinal

Re:Article is mistaken about Office licenses (1)

digitalpro (2504422) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297805)

The URL for that PDF didn't translate very well. Here is a direct link to the Microsoft SPLA Datasheet stating that Office can be licensed per processor. Any information on whether (and under what conditions) that is actually possible would be helpful: http://www.scribd.com/doc/23123212/Spla-Datasheet [scribd.com]

Re:Article is mistaken about Office licenses (1)

DavidRawling (864446) | more than 2 years ago | (#39298091)

I rather suspect that per-processor licensing for Office, under a SPLA, is based on offering the Office suite from a Windows 2008 Remote Desktop Server. So either the user will establish an RDP session with the native client, or they use RD Web Access (which is the same thing under the hood, with the additional annoyance of being Windows only).

Jumping to conclusions (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39297171)

TFA title: Question? Assume-Answer-Is-Affirmative-And-Speculate-On-Negative-Consequences-And-Ignore-Possiblity-That-Question-Might-Be-Answered-Negatively.

MS may consider it a good thing (0)

litewoheat (179018) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297173)

It's fun but not really all the useful. I'm sure whatever Microsoft does specifically for the iPad will be much better plus this gets people used to MS Office on the iPad and kinda sets up the market for the real stuff coming up. So MS is probably just letting it happen and watching intently.

Re:MS may consider it a good thing (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39297275)

It's fun but not really all the useful. I'm sure whatever Microsoft does specifically for the iPad will be much better plus this gets people used to MS Office on the iPad and kinda sets up the market for the real stuff coming up. So MS is probably just letting it happen and watching intently.

Might just be that Microsoft is waiting for someone else to do a real touch pad office, then buy the suckers out and kill the Android version. If you have ever used office word and excel on WinMobile 6.1 or 7 then you know how crappy they do touch. You still have to enable the phone optical mouse if you want to do anything at all, they just cannot get it into their heads that a gazillion tiny buttons that you have to work a stylus to use and has the same functions as a pc desk top sucks big ones on a touch screen! Windows style coding and small devices just do not mix and the sales gurus and especially their chair throwing corporate gorilla just don't get it.

Microsoft should be grateful... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39297217)

that OnLive is buying licenses for paying customers who need to use their shitty, bloated OS and office suite. If they cut off OnLive from essentially being a license broker, those people are going to look elsewhere for alternative solutions for this type of software on mobile devices (e.g. iWork, QuickOffice, DocsToGo). In this scenario, they lose out completely.

Cyber Cafe (1)

ZombieBraintrust (1685608) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297227)

Would this mean a Cyber Cafe is also in violation? Is the license saying you can't rent out Window 7 machines? Or just that you can't rent out Window 7 machines over a network?

Re:Cyber Cafe (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297291)

the pc's are licensed and it's local. They are not renting out a VM feed over the web.

Re:Cyber Cafe (3, Interesting)

ZombieBraintrust (1685608) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297331)

Windows desktop operating system and Microsoft Office system licenses do not permit renting, leasing, or outsourcing the software to a third party. As a result, many organizations that rent, lease, or outsource desktop PCs to third parties (such as Internet cafés, hotel and airport kiosks, business service centers, and office equipment leasing companies) are not in compliance with Microsoft license requirements. Rental Rights are a simple way for organizations to get a waiver of these licensing restrictions through a one-time license transaction valid for the term of the underlying software license or life of the PC.

Nevermind I looked it up at https://partner.microsoft.com/40104043 [microsoft.com]

Re:Cyber Cafe (1)

howardd21 (1001567) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297299)

You can rent a Windows 7 Pro machine there is a SPLA license for it at $7.62 a month.

Re:Cyber Cafe (1)

number17 (952777) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297305)

On a desktop, such as an internet cafe, you can license per user or per device, whichever suits your needs. With virtual desktop environments, like OnLive, you would license per device or talk with Microsoft and come up with an agreement beforehand.

Licensing Windows for VDI Environments [microsoft.com]

Google vs. Microsoft PRIVACY WARS (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39297231)

âoeGoogle is seriously the worst company of all time. They literally want to control everything you do on the internet. Do some research and stop using google and other google-related entities altogether, or at least not as much. I know itâ(TM)s hard, but really google is pretty much big brother in the 1984 senseâ¦always watchinâ(TM) ya!â

Drugs are bad, mmmmmmkay?

Every service Google offers is an open ended choice for you to use.

Are you forced to use Googleâ(TM)s search engine? No.
Are you forced to use Googleâ(TM)s e-mail? No.
Are you forced to use Googleâ(TM)s Chrome? No.
Are you foced to use Googleâ(TM)s ChromeOS? No.
And so it goes with their other products.

Google is not The Catholic Church in the dark ages giving people over to local authorities so they can burn them as heretics. The army of paid shills and clueless users both stomping around on the internet crying âoeDead Man Walking!â over Googleâ(TM)s actions are disgusting and without cause. If you know anything about software and hardware and how easily they both can be manipulated on any OS through poisoned hardware/software/other vectors youâ(TM)d know privacy is DEAD.

ALL electronic devices are easily POISONED by the right organizations/individuals.

When you shuffle into a store selling computers, what Operating System is pre-loaded on the majority of consumer computers?

Microsoft Windows.

Are you forced to use Microsoft Windows?

No, but if youâ(TM)re not intelligent enough to request a Windows refund, install your own OS after formatting the drive, or buy from a vendor offering other pre-loaded OS options, how many choices are you offered?

Report back to us after youâ(TM)ve visited ten stores selling computers, ask them what Operating Systems are pre-loaded on the desktops and laptops.

Iâ(TM)m telling you right now, the answer will be 99 â" 100% Microsoft Windows.

You can search on the web and read about the lawsuit(s) and the âoeOEM dealsâ throughout history with Windows. For most people walking into a store, programmed to believe Windows IS the PC

(Iâ(TM)m a PC (Windows) Iâ(TM)m a Mac (MAC OS X) is an example of more media programming to drill it into your head that a PC must equal Windows)

(And what of the other commercials where they say âoeIâ(TM)m a PC!â and what Operating System are they pimping?)

and the IE icon IS the internet, where is the choice? How many of these people know how to install another OS?

How do most Microsoft Windows installation CD-ROMs treat your hard drive when you install it? Most versions TAKE OVER the drive and the MBR, never offering you a CHOICE to install any other OS except Microsoft Windows! Where is the choice in this? If you install another OS along side it and decide to reinstall most versions of Windows, what happens to the MBR? Thatâ(TM)s correct, Windows OVERWRITES IT, killing your dual boot option until you manually restore it after digging through documentation, or giving up and re-installing your other OS in tandem.

For many. many years, Windows only included IE as the default browser. In some countries like America, it may still be true that IE is the only preloaded browser option, I donâ(TM)t know) It has been called a free offering from Microsoft, yet itâ(TM)s pre-loaded and closed source, meaning you have to run it in Windows (or maybe Mac OS X) or try your hand at emulating it on Linux through WINE.

Tell me how many choices of Operating Systems pre-loaded on computers you have out in the stores apart from Windows. You can try looking on-line, but most on-line corporate websites which offer alternative OSs BURY the alternative OS in difficult to find pages, or donâ(TM)t offer them at all on a pre-loaded system.

How many document formats or media forums in the history of Windows have been required to or MUST STILL be opened on a Microsoft Windows machine?

How many times have you heard someone tell you they NEED Microsoft Office? Why? Because of locked-in document formats.

Instead, they should use Open Office which is free, but Microsoft Windows doesnâ(TM)t offer you this choice, YOU have to look around outside of the OS and find this for yourself.

What about gaming? What choice do you have on computers? DirectX (which is the beast behind most media/gaming on your Windows system) is proprietary and works on Windows. You can go to the console market and choose something apart from Microsoft, but a majority chooses XBOXES, again, another Microsoft offering!

And in regards to privacy, have you read the privacy agreement on XBOXES with Kinect? Are you aware you may be recorded in some form and if you do something naughty in front of it it could possibly be used against you? Where is the freedom and choice in THAT? None. Is Google watching you like this on a console in your living room or bedroom? If so, how?

You have the choice through free will to avoid Google, Microsoft, or any other corporate product unless they are a monopoly (wasnâ(TM)t Microsoft convicted of being a monopoly in the past?) like your local energy, gas, water, and possibly even your trash companies are. If you try going without those, expect drummed up curiosity about you and your family, and maybe even strict enforcement of some obscure laws to draw you back in to the monopoliesâ(TM) game of providing you energy, gas, waterâ¦

Donâ(TM)t like cookies or your browser touching Google or Microsoftâ(TM)s sites? Add them to your hosts file. You can search on how to create and use a hosts file on the web, some block all of Googleâ(TM)s servers, or most by default, and you are free to opt out again in this manner. Spybot is a free, but proprietary, software product for Windows which offers a simple one click hosts file replacement with their block list if doing it yourself is too mentally challenging.

Are you intelligent enough to use solutions like SSH, VPNs, Tor, or other privacy options to avoid profiling and zombie cookies? Letâ(TM)s hope so, because Google isnâ(TM)t the only one tracking you, and if youâ(TM)re using Microsoftâ(TM)s proprietary software, you are playing in their sandbox. Do you know what each new update contains? No, you cannot see what it is beyond WHAT THEY TELL YOU IT IS/DOES. You cannot verify the source code, you cannot verify what Windows may be doing right now behind your back.

I would argue there are more people in the world being watched by Microsoft and their offerings than Google. A majority of people use Windows and Microsoft software, almost all of which is closed source, and then there are those who dance naked in front of their Kinect XBOXES while Microsoft may be having a perpetual laugh at you, or maybe you are using cannabis to treat a medical condition while you use Kinect⦠Oops? Is that a knock at the door?

Do you mute commercials on TV or do you consume them? How about in-show product placements in movies and sitcoms? Do you close your eyes before they are presented because you are psychic and know when theyâ(TM)ll begin and end?

From the time you wake up in the morning until the time your head hits the pillow, you, I, and most of us in the modern world, (stupid enough to continue living within it and not separating ourselves away from all of the noise) are bombarded with advertisements in some form or another.

The beef shouldnâ(TM)t be with privacy as much as it should be with sanity. We could all get together and say, âoeNo! We will no longer tolerate advertising in our cities!â and âoeNo! We will no longer tolerate advertising on our televisions!â and if people worked together and supported one another through boycotting, the ads would CEASE. But humans are scattered on purpose and divided against each other to keep us apart and a willing audience to whatever SEED they wish to PLANT in our HEADS, every day, every week, every month, every year.

Google is not the worst company of all time, this sounds like crack head speak.

Google forces NOTHING at or on you. Google gives you the OPTION of using their services and if you need any more hand holding on the subject, perhaps you should consider a lobotomy. I hear theyâ(TM)re still offered in some parts of the world and youâ(TM)d probably be able to enjoy your Microsoft products more after having had the procedure.

Caution: I am not a doctor or lawyer, I am not suggesting medical advice nor legal advice, the mention of lobotomy and any related procedure is satire, a joke, ha ha.

Do you want to break free of corporations and tracking?

Try Linux for an Operating System, and choose what web services you use wisely, reading every TOS and privacy policy.

(IMO Windows was built with the sole purpose of tracking, try examining it with freeware forensics tools, the traces of your movements on the system are EVERYWHERE and then some!)

As for myself, I will use Googleâ(TM)s FREE services when I CHOOSE to, because I have the CHOICE and they offer some QUALITY free software.

There is no reason to whine about Google now that Iâ(TM)ve educated you on your errors. Corporations usually exist to shove products down your throat and take your money in trade, welcome to Capitalism 101. Put down your books of fiction and step into the real world, buddy.

YOU can BLOCK all Google related advertising everywhere with some simple research, and CHOOSE not to use their software.

Until the day comes if/when Google starts implanting people with devices to relay advertisements internally (like V2K mil tech or super tech contact lenses) or externally, you have no basis in reality for making such a statement.

They knew what they were doing. (1)

number17 (952777) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297235)

Microsoft licensing can be complex, but a service that offers office for free for end users? How long did these guys think they would get away with this? They are lucky that Microsoft is lenient with true-up licensing. However, how much are they going to have to fork out for all the current users of the product who haven't given them a dime. There is no way this service will continue without costing end users the same as it would for any other service. That's if they don't go bankrupt first.

The same thing would be happen if somebody setup a service hosting OS X and iLife.

Flaunt a floral message for your events (-1)

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The next one... (1)

nitzmahone (164842) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297461)

If it's not already clear, darn tootin' the next version of the volume license agreement will contain the "OnLive" clause that expressly forbids it...

How is Amazon doing it then? (2)

zuperduperman (1206922) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297535)

TFA:
> The Windows 7 desktop just plain can’t be rented

I guess it's not precisely Windows 7, but I seem to be able to rent full Windows instances from EC2 for .12 / hour.

Re:How is Amazon doing it then? (1)

digitalpro (2504422) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297837)

Sure, but are they Windows Server or Windows 7 desktop instances?

So then, what happened to the gaming thing? (1)

killdashnine (651759) | more than 2 years ago | (#39297915)

Fair question which merits discussion. First, sreaming Crysis ... now pirating Office? I hate to troll, but still think this company is trying to peddle technology that just isn't in demand, and when it is will be done by Apple, Microsoft, Google, or Sony.

Good! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39298069)

I, for one, applaud any and all efforts to reduce the prevalence and use of Microsoft windows and office. Especially in the exploding mobile market where MS has practically 0 market share and has been unable to inflict its usual damage yet. With enough proactive efforts like these, MS will never gain a foothold in mobile and will helpfully fade along with the declining PC market.

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