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Linux 3.3 Released

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the check-it-out dept.

Open Source 314

diegocg writes "Linux 3.3 has been released. The changes include the merge of kernel code from the Android project. There is also support for a new architecture (TI C6X), much improved balancing and the ability to restripe between different RAID profiles in Btrfs, and several network improvements: a virtual switch implementation (Open vSwitch) designed for virtualization scenarios, a faster and more scalable alternative to the 'bonding' driver, a configurable limit to the transmission queue of the network devices to fight bufferbloat, a network priority control group and per-cgroup TCP buffer limits. There are also many small features and new drivers and fixes. Here's the full changelog."

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Yea! (2, Funny)

colinrichardday (768814) | more than 2 years ago | (#39399931)

Yea!

Why Should I Care? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400117)

I'm waiting for Windows 8. That would be some excellent news, not this pathetic excuse of an operating system.

Re:Why Should I Care? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400145)

Windows 8, I have seen the demo's and I just could not stop laughing, "charms" "tiles" what will they think up next. I am happy for you, enjoy it if it is your thing, but I hope you do not mind me paying scant attention to your opinions on my operating system.

Re:Why Should I Care? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400357)

You're just jealous that it'll take at least a month after Windows 8 comes out before somebody creates a Metro-style UI for X.

Two to match the colors.

Re:Why Should I Care? (2, Informative)

andrew3 (2250992) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400151)

Linux is a kernel, not an operating system.

Re:Why Should I Care? (-1, Offtopic)

GmExtremacy (2579091) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400183)

I don't think you know what you're referring to.

If that's true, then why did you let trick you into so that you could use Gamemaker?

Re:Why Should I Care? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400225)

I don't think you know what you're referring to.

If that's true, then why did you let trick you into so that you could use Gamemaker?

I've seen ghetto thug niggers with better grammar than you.

Re:Why Should I Care? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400487)

lol ur wrong linux is a os

Way to go....... (0, Offtopic)

WyzrdX (1390963) | more than 2 years ago | (#39399941)

Finally 1 less reason to use anything windows based. I have been looking forward to the code getting out there. I just hope I can continue to learn without returning to basics.

Re:Way to go....... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400019)

So... which part of this release actually provides a compelling reason to use Linux over any other OS?
You've been itching for something to run on that TI C6X system you built?

The fanboisim here makes me gag. Apple has nothing on you guys.

Re:Way to go....... (3, Informative)

MiG82au (2594721) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400111)

A good file system with restripeable RAID is pretty nifty. Admittedly you won't use the feature often, but it's a nice alternative to backing up and restoring onto a new array.

Re:Way to go....... (1, Informative)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400219)

So you mean Solaris or FreeBSD then with ZFS I assume?

Re:Way to go....... (3, Informative)

Electricity Likes Me (1098643) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400351)

ZFS has no support for resizing or restriping it's RAID pools, or shrinking the storage units.

It's a giant missing feature on an otherwise excellent FS.

Re:Way to go....... (5, Insightful)

tpstigers (1075021) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400169)

Fanboism? Don't be a douchebag. This is a post about a new Linux release. The people who comment on this post should naturally be expected to be Linux users, probably fans. Just as a post about a new OS X release would naturally be populated with Apple fans. It's the people who purposefully comment on threads about products they DON'T like that create a problem. Then there are people like you who just enjoy acting like a dick. Give it a rest.

Re:Way to go....... (4, Insightful)

GmExtremacy (2579091) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400333)

It's the people who purposefully comment on threads about products they DON'T like that create a problem.

I wouldn't say it's a problem. They, like to the people who like it, are simply stating their opinions.

Re:Way to go....... (0)

DeathFromSomewhere (940915) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400355)

It's the people who purposefully comment on threads about products they DON'T like that create a problem.

Agreed. Nothing like a good echo chamber.

Re:Way to go....... (2)

unixisc (2429386) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400397)

You are right, but the OP of this thread is the one who started it w/ snide references to Windows. He could have kept it to a discussion of just Linux, and nobody from the Windows camp would have bothered.

Re:Way to go....... (1)

markdavis (642305) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400231)

You are an ass. -1 Troll

Re:Way to go....... (3, Interesting)

mug funky (910186) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400529)

the android merge means i can play angry birds without having to use wine...

the various fixes means my decaying old netbook will still remain usable, and even appear snappy next to one half it's age.

Re:Way to go....... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400597)

So... which part of this release actually provides a compelling reason to use Linux over any other OS?
You've been itching for something to run on that TI C6X system you built?

The fanboisim here makes me gag. Apple has nothing on you guys.

Hey Cowboy did you know that the Linux Kernel currently runs most smart tvs, bd players, and other home entertainment devices. I would be willing to bet that the number of Samsung, Sony, LG and other tvs and devices running on the Linux kernel is much greater than the number of Macs, and PC currently in use combined!

The reason for this is that any manufacturer can use OpenSource software like the Linux kernel and modify it to their own needs without sending money to Redmond for every device they sell. This is why Microsoft and Apple have failed in the embedded market with perhaps the exception of some car companies like Ford Motors. Ballmer can rant, rave and do all the paid shill crap he wants. Fact is as the kernel becomes more open to modification from companies like Google with Android optimisations and slick coding Microsoft will become irrelevant in many markets.

The post was about the most important core software released in history so go pound on your PC, and post how linux sucks somewhere where someone cares. The Linux kernel is one hell of allot more that just the base of an OS as you perceive it.

Keep it up. (5, Insightful)

Severus Snape (2376318) | more than 2 years ago | (#39399949)

The Linux kernel guys show that constant steady frequent releases are the way forwards, note to GNOME and KDE guys, you got it wrong.

Re:Keep it up. (5, Insightful)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 2 years ago | (#39399987)

That and the kernel guys actually put in features people want and need, not shove unwanted changes down the users thoughts...

Re:Keep it up. (5, Funny)

MrEricSir (398214) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400215)

shove unwanted changes down the users thoughts...

You can uninstall GBrain and/or MindKontrol to prevent Gnome and KDE from controlling your thoughts.

Re:Keep it up. (3, Funny)

Tanktalus (794810) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400329)

I was actually considering that the other day. I'm not sure why, but I changed my mind. ThEy ArE wOnDeRfUl ApPs.

Re:Keep it up. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400291)

Except only a handful of people actually know what these changes mean and even fewer care. These aren't features people want or need. It's minor tweaks.

No I don't need an explanation on what these feature are, thanks.

Re:Keep it up. (2)

MurukeshM (1901690) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400523)

Let me rephrase GP for you..

... the kernel guys actually put in features people who care about such things want and need, while not pissing the hell out of others...

Re:Keep it up. (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400115)

Last time I checked, KDE makes releases nearly every two months. Too-rapid releases with major API changes (such as the ACPI changes in 3.2) can cause rather annoying problems with third-party drivers.

@World, if you're going to use a three-part version number, please follow semver [semver.org] . Don't make API-breaking changes in a minor version.

Re:Keep it up. (-1, Offtopic)

mcrbids (148650) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400253)

That may be technically true, but upgrading to Fedora 16 KDE brought a new KMail which pretty much borked EVERYTHING during the upgrade, effectively resulting in a complete loss of data.

To be honest, I have a !@# lot of email, and it was pretty tragic. I had backups, of course, and the actual email was still safe on the IMAPS server, but years worth of carefully tuned filter settings, folders, and the like were trashed beyond recognition. Since there is no migration tool that actually works between the previous and new versions of KDE, my only choices were to retrograde, or re-set up the new KMail. Since I couldn't get it to save its settings, I switched to Thunderbird Mail, and I'm not at all a happy camper about it. It works, but lacks the elegance that KMail used to have.

I loved KMail, and the new steaming pile of crap bearing its name doesn't even deserve the K.

Re:Keep it up. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400271)

The Linux kernel guys show that constant steady frequent releases are the way forwards, note to GNOME and KDE guys, you got it wrong.

Not enough information... obvious bug has no merit whatsoever and we are doing everything perfect. marked as incomplete. /sarcasm

Re:Keep it up. (4, Funny)

Smauler (915644) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400533)

The Linux kernel guys show that constant steady

I agree... 1 sec.

frequent releases are the way forwards, note

Argh... just got to...

to GNOME and KDE

update firefox...

guys, you

Again?

got

Must

it

finish

wrong.

comment.

Which distributions? (0)

cold fjord (826450) | more than 2 years ago | (#39399957)

So, which will be the first commercial and non-commercial distributions to get it?

Re:Which distributions? (2)

flyingfsck (986395) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400005)

You don't have to wait for a distribution house to pick it up. Downloading and doing a kernel compile is easy.

Re:Which distributions? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400173)

So which kernel will Occiferic Ocelot - oh oops, sorry, we're now awaiting Pretentious Panda or something - ship with in 4,3,2,1 weeks? I expect the major distros like Ubuntu or Mint will update to the new kernel as part of their usual schedule, right? Maybe I'm not adventurous enough to venture ahead of the distro providers who would ensure other software is updated to work with the new kernel....

Re:Which distributions? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400209)

The way Ubuntu is, I wouldn't expect to see this until Oneiric+3.

Re:Which distributions? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400323)

I expect the major distros like Ubuntu or Mint will update to the new kernel as part of their usual schedule, right?

Hahaha, no. Ubuntu takes ages to update the kernel. And with good reason: it's an end-user's distro, it can't be bleeding edge. Try Arch if you want the newest kernel (keep in mind 3.3 is not yet on the official repository, but should be shortly).

Re:Which distributions? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400101)

It will be used for the Fedora 17 beta release currently scheduled for April 3rd.

Re:Which distributions? (4, Informative)

Hardolaf (1371377) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400171)

Arch Linux will probably support it in a few days. The packages have been marked outdated and there is already a 3.3rc7-1 ( https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=50893 [archlinux.org] )release in the wild that will probably be the basis for the updated to 3.3.

Re:Which distributions? (3, Informative)

meow27 (1526173) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400349)

Gentoo and/or Arch

Re:Which distributions? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400367)

I noticed the maintainer of Grailux (a python-centric distro) has already upgraded to the 5.5 kernel...

Re:Which distributions? (4, Funny)

zill (1690130) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400567)

5.5 kernel...

This is either a typo or python is way more powerful than I thought.

Re:Which distributions? (4, Interesting)

quarkscat (697644) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400375)

I cannot answer this question for any GNU/Linux distribution except for Slackware, which may or may not get Linux Kernel 3.3.xx as part of an official distribution for at least one Slackware release iteration ... But my personal Slackware machine will be getting 3.3 as soon as it finishes building and I reboot the machine. ;-)

It's nice to have a GNU/Linux distribution that doesn't jerk users around with strange application locations, misaligned library versions, or an update schedule tied to commercial support contracts. I've tried the rest, and I returned to the best (imho), since GNU/Linux kernel 0.96. Don't try dropping a new kernel source tar-ball onto RH Enterprise Server, Fedora, or even Ubunto -- it will break your system, and your $$$$ support agreement.

Recursion (3, Funny)

philip.paradis (2580427) | more than 2 years ago | (#39399961)

If I deploy a 3.3 guest on a host running 3.3, does it automatically become 3.3 repeating and go on forever?

Re:Recursion (1)

Vectronic (1221470) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400011)

3.3 all the way down

*Btrfs* (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39399997)

Sorry, I farted.

Re:*Btrfs* (-1, Offtopic)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400107)

That's what your mom said in the delivery room.

C6X support is surprising (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400001)

Wow, I had no idea there was work in porting Linux to DSP architectures. That's quite an interesting development. I wonder what the use case is, since DSPs are typically used for very specific, real-time work, not for hosting general-purpose operating systems.

Also, it's quite surprising to me since as far as I know it's necessary to use TI's compiler to generate C6X code. I found one initiative to port GCC to it, but afaik it didn't get finished. My understanding is that it is no small job to get Linux to compile on non-supported compilers, so I'm interested in the toolchain they are using. For my own work on a C6711, I've been using the TI compiler under Wine. (Which works fine actually, although I had to generate an initial project in CodeComposer to get some of the board-specific support files.)

Re:C6X support is surprising (3, Interesting)

unixisc (2429386) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400239)

Also, isn't TI C6X a VLIW - in which case, it would need some very elaborate state of the art compilers? Anybody writing a compiler for this thing would have to write one that does, in addition to the usual activities, VLIW stuff like register renaming and allocation, branch prediction and speculative execution, and so on. Would GCC (or LLVM/Clang) put that sort of effort into a compiler?

Re:C6X support is surprising (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400297)

Transmeta (remember them?) had a gcc-code generator for their VLIW which was, naturally, GPL. Red Hat was maintaining it after transmeta went tits up, working on generalizing it for more architectures. I don't know if it was merged into mainline gcc (the steering committee had a stick up their ass about it at the time since it was so specific to transmeta).

Re:C6X support is surprising (1)

unixisc (2429386) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400429)

That was my point. Every VLIW implementation would have its own code generator for things that in the RISC and CISC worlds, the CPUs usually do. Since a branch prediction on a Crusoe would differ from a C6X which in turn would differ from an Itanium, there are no VLIW specific changes that can be merged into a mainline one-size-fits-all gcc. That's the difference b/w CISC or RISC implementations, vs a VLIW one.

Re:C6X support is surprising (4, Informative)

macshit (157376) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400409)

Also, it's quite surprising to me since as far as I know it's necessary to use TI's compiler to generate C6X code. I found one initiative to port GCC to it, but afaik it didn't get finished. My understanding is that it is no small job to get Linux to compile on non-supported compilers, so I'm interested in the toolchain they are using.

GCC 4.7 (which will be released soonish; it's basically already done) supports the C6X architecture.

From the GCC 4.7 release notes [gnu.org] :

New Targets and Target Specific Improvements:
...
C6X

  • Support has been added for the Texas Instruments C6X family of processors.

Re:C6X support is surprising (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400441)

Great! I hope they fixed the currently broken AVR support.

Re:C6X support is surprising (1)

macshit (157376) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400453)

Great! I hope they fixed the currently broken AVR support.

The page I linked to above [gnu.org] also shows many changes to AVR support; whether that makes it non-"broken" or not, I don't know.

Great! (1, Insightful)

ArchieBunker (132337) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400003)

Now how many of these features are out of beta and actually work?

Re:Great! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400025)

Three. But only in two use-case scenarios.

Re:Great! (4, Informative)

Daniel Phillips (238627) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400039)

Features not marked "experimental" in the kernel config database are out of beta.

Great timing (4, Funny)

quantumphaze (1245466) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400027)

I just rebooted to apply 3.2.11 :(

Re:Great timing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400053)

I don't use linux, but I remember reading a while ago that linux introduced a feature to update the kernel w/o a reboot. Does this not apply?

Re:Great timing (4, Informative)

MiG82au (2594721) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400081)

Only thing I know of is Ksplice which is a private company that offered special run-time kernel patches. Oracle bought them out and no longer releases the software and the patches for free.

Re:Great timing (4, Informative)

petteyg359 (1847514) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400203)

Ksplice is just a commercial tool that makes use of kexec which has been in the kennel for years. There is absolutely no need for Ksplice yo use kexec.

Re:Great timing (4, Informative)

Lost+Found (844289) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400545)

Not true. Kexec replaces the whole kernel, which means the system is reset. Ksplice applies and removes patches (security updates mainly) while the kernel is running, which means all the processes keep running as if nothing happened.

Re:Great timing (1)

blind biker (1066130) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400551)

Is there a distro that uses kexec? Is Oracle the only one to have a distro that does (albeit through a commercial implementation)?

Re:Great timing (1)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400303)

And apparently, they no longer spam slashdot with k-splice stories, so something good came out of it.

Re:Great timing (1)

GNUALMAFUERTE (697061) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400387)

Really? I feel really stupid then doing it by hand years before ksplice even existed ...

Re:Great timing (4, Informative)

gQuigs (913879) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400091)

I don't use linux, but I remember reading a while ago that linux introduced a feature to update the kernel w/o a reboot. Does this not apply?

It's not built-in for any major distros yet. It's called ksplice, which is owned by Oracle now. (It is GPLv2)

AFAIK it has not been mainstreamed.

Re:Great timing (4, Insightful)

BitZtream (692029) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400283)

Probably never will be either. Its usefulness was always questionable at best anyway, it is a GREAT academic exercise that I'm interested in just cause I've been developing my own 'x64 os' as a learning experience so the tactics they use I like to learn about, from a practical perspective as a system admin, its silly.

Mission critical infrastructure where you would want continuous availability is running on a cluster which can stand to have a host rebooted for upgrades so live splicing kernels is pointless in those situations.

ksplice is for people in moms basement who want an uptime long penis, not for anyone who actually needs service availability.

ksplice is a treatment for a symptom, which has a long list of side effects that are non-obvious to your non-developer sysadmins, which means most.

Clusters are the vaccination/condom that prevents you from developing the problem in the first place

Re:Great timing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400377)

Clusters are the vaccination/condom that prevents you from developing the problem in the first place

So you're saying ksplice is a cluster-f*ck?

Re:Great timing (0)

GNUALMAFUERTE (697061) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400443)

Really?

Well, explain this to me:

When you have 8 servers each with 2 PCI-E Quad E1 Digium Cards, handling a total of 248 inbound calls on toll free numbers, with an average of 200 simultaneous channels per server 24/7, how do you cluster that? When you have analog CCTV cameras running into 4 servers each with 16 channels of video, well, how do you cluster that?

Not everything is HTTP over TCP/IP. Not everything is easily solved with a load-balancing reverse proxy or DNS balancing/failover. Not everything can be clustered. In those situations, and I speak from experience (those two are real-life situations I deal with), not rebooting is real fucking important. And you have two options: either you leave systems unpatched and wait for the next 5 minutes downtime window that might be a year from now, hoping nothing bad happens, or you live patch those motherfuckers.

If that wasn't enough, I can mention at least an extra 20 cases where clustering isn't an option, and neither is rebooting.

Re:Great timing (3, Insightful)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400473)

What? If you have an 8 server system, and can't handle one of them going down, you're basically screwed, because sooner or later one of them WILL go down. If you want real uptime, you need redundancy.

And it's doable, you didn't give good requirements, but in your CCTV example, all you need is to store the data on a SAN.

Basically if your design depends on the fact that none of your servers will go down, then you need a new designer.

Re:Great timing (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400497)

Really?

Well, explain this to me:

When you have 8 servers each with 2 PCI-E Quad E1 Digium Cards, handling a total of 248 inbound calls on toll free numbers, with an average of 200 simultaneous channels per server 24/7, how do you cluster that? When you have analog CCTV cameras running into 4 servers each with 16 channels of video, well, how do you cluster that?

Not everything is HTTP over TCP/IP. Not everything is easily solved with a load-balancing reverse proxy or DNS balancing/failover. Not everything can be clustered. In those situations, and I speak from experience (those two are real-life situations I deal with), not rebooting is real fucking important. And you have two options: either you leave systems unpatched and wait for the next 5 minutes downtime window that might be a year from now, hoping nothing bad happens, or you live patch those motherfuckers.

If that wasn't enough, I can mention at least an extra 20 cases where clustering isn't an option, and neither is rebooting.

The explanation is fairly simple. Your hardware does not meet the redundancy and failover requirements for the uptime expectations you've set. Equipment designed for extensive uptimes and critical services have built-in redundancy. Take your phone "server" for example. We run several types of phone service, and the one most similar to what you describe runs as a pair of servers, each with a primary and redundant connection. If either server fails, or if the connected switches/routers fail, they can failover to the backup hardware without even interrupting a call in progress. When we need to upgrade the servers, we do them one at a time.

Rebooting always has to be an option. Always. Why? Because sooner or later you're going to have hardware failure, and you'll be rebooting whether or not you want to. Going with your 'head in the sand' approach only means your customers will feel a much greater impact from the inevitable downtime than they would if you'd properly designed your systems in the first place.

Re:Great timing (4, Informative)

batkiwi (137781) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400639)

"When you have 8 servers each with 2 PCI-E Quad E1 Digium Cards, handling a total of 248 inbound calls on toll free numbers,"

This one is tricky if you're trunking with the local telco correctly. Your telco should offer a redunancy and rerouting service if you actually have 64 E1s with them.

"When you have analog CCTV cameras running into 4 servers each with 16 channels of video, well, how do you cluster that?"

That one's easy. Splitter before the capture card.

If you care about it, it's capable of being made redundant.

Re:Great timing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400229)

You can also try using kexec (Debian kexec-tools) to speed up your reboots. It's definitely still a reboot though.

Re:Great timing (1)

Nursie (632944) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400631)

kexec - great for fast reboots, really annoying to find when you want to switch OS on your multi-boot machine.

WTF? Wheres grub? How am I back at the gdm login screen so damn fast?

Re:Great timing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400223)

Based on your comment, I'm willing to bet that you're not able to reboot often because this machine is in production? If so, perhaps you should be loading a brand new version of Linux right out the gate. Mature is better than bold. Let the dust settle first before attempting something this risky.

Re:Great timing (1)

quantumphaze (1245466) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400479)

It's Arch Linux on a personal Laptop. Arch doesn't retain the previous kernel after an update like other distros causing interesting effects with fuse and adding USB devices. But at least there isn't a backlog of unused kernels eating up /boot like I have with Ubuntu.

Anyway, I get in the office and run the update, reboot, then refresh Slashdot to see this. It's more of a matter of reloading my apps and Firefox with my typical 50 tabs (I may have a problem).

Is it sporting the new Metro UI? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400051)

Sorry ;)

Re:Is it sporting the new Metro UI? (1)

unixisc (2429386) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400251)

Hey, you can get Unity or Gnome 3!

Re:Is it sporting the new Metro UI? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400425)

Hey, you can get Unity or Gnome 3!

Actually, I was just being a smart ass troll insinuating that Linux is becoming a bug-ridden pile of spaghetti code albeit more-so of a few of the more popular distros rather than the kernel itself. Case in point: Unity

Btrfs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400125)

Bit rot filesystem?

Linux 3.3 Released (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400211)

Faggots rejoice.

Android Window (2)

markdavis (642305) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400249)

It does appear this means the possibility of running of an entire Android "system" and "apps" under a normal Linux desktop/laptop/tablet, but without emulation. Correct? If so, I can see that being a great thing.

Re:Android Window (2)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400483)

Yes, you are right. You can now run Android on a stock kernel.

I suppose I have to start building... (1)

FlyingGuy (989135) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400281)

my own kernel, again. --sigh-- Or at least no more kernel patches until I get a change to review just how much cruft got shoved for Android Support. Fucking Google.

Re:I suppose I have to start building... (4, Informative)

Randle_Revar (229304) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400503)

It seems pretty clear stuff is not just being shoved in willy-nilly for android. There have been many debates about including this piece or that piece, and if the implementation should be identical to the android version. Many parts are not in yet, and some may not go in at all. The android suspending solution may not ever go in, mainline may eventually get a system that serves the same purpose in a different way, android may eventually support that. LWN and the LKML posts they link to give a pretty good overview short of reading all the code commits.

Re:I suppose I have to start building... (3, Informative)

grouchomarxist (127479) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400519)

The lwn post is here: https://lwn.net/Articles/472984/ [lwn.net]

There is a lot of things they're leaving out for the time being.

Bufferbloat (2)

Wonko the Sane (25252) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400315)

I've been reading for a year about bufferbloat and all these tools designed to mitigate it but none of the explainations make sense to someone who isn't already a traffic control guru.

Can someone explain how, if I'm using a typical Linux system as a firewall between my LAN and a cable modem, I should reconfigure that system if I want to not experience bufferbloat?

Re:Bufferbloat (2)

Maow (620678) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400361)

I've been reading for a year about bufferbloat and all these tools designed to mitigate it but none of the explainations make sense to someone who isn't already a traffic control guru.

Can someone explain how, if I'm using a typical Linux system as a firewall between my LAN and a cable modem, I should reconfigure that system if I want to not experience bufferbloat?

Note that I am in no way a network guru / expert, etc. so take my comment with a large dose of salt.

That said, I don't think there's much you can do in a home environment to mitigate buffer bloat, it's when large ISPs, or other large networks, and backbones interconnect, for the most part.

I'm not going to say much more at risk of being egregiously wrong. I'll just await someone more knowledgeable to jump in and enlighten us both...

For anyone reading and is interested in the issue:

Bufferbloat [wikipedia.org] :

This problem is caused mainly by router and switch manufacturers making incorrect assumptions about whether to buffer packets or drop them. As a general rule,[which?]} packets should not be buffered for more than a few milliseconds. Any more than this can lead to TCP's congestion-avoidance algorithms breaking, causing problems such as high and variable latency, and choking network bottlenecks for all other flows as the buffer becomes full of the packets of one TCP stream and other packets are then dropped.[4] The buffers then take some time to drain, before the TCP connection ramps back up to speed and then floods the buffers again.

And a link [bufferbloat.net] that may show everything I said to be wrong:

CeroWrt is a project built on the OpenWrt firmware to resolve the endemic problems of bufferbloat in home networking today, and to push forward the state of the art of edge networks and routers. Projects include proper IPv6 support, tighter integration with DNSSEC, and most importantly, reducing bufferbloat in both the wired and wireless components of the stack....

Re:Bufferbloat (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400399)

You want to limit your outgoing transmission speed using QoS to be just under your outgoing bandwidth limit. This prevents your ISP from buffering traffic and reduces latency, increasing responsiveness to things like incoming SSH connections.

Re:Bufferbloat (4, Informative)

bytestorm (1296659) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400515)

There isn't an easy answer to your question. In general, bufferbloat is when you get latency or jitter issues because some network device upstream of you has a large buffer, which it fills before it starts dropping your packets. The dropped packets is how software relying on TCP is notified of network congestion so it knows to throttle back. Other protocols may be affected differently (you might notice VoIP delay or bad lag on your xbox).

To combat this, the idea is to limit your traffic in buffers you control which are (typically) smaller than your ISP and modem's buffers so the ISP ones stay empty and highly interactive. In general, this means limiting your data rates to lower than your bandwidth and prioritizing packets by interactivity requirements. The linux kernel additions in 3.3 allow you to set your buffer size smaller for the entire interface with the goal being to reduce the delay induced by the linux router/bridge. It also adds the ability to prioritize traffic and limit buffers by cgroup (which is like a process categorization or pool which has certain resource limits), but this isn't particularly helpful in your forwarding situation.

For my own QoS setup, I usually use a script similar to this HTB one [lartc.org] . It requires some tuning and getting your queue priorities right requires some understanding of the traffic going through your network. A lot of high level netfilter tools (smoothwall, dd-wrt, etc) have easier to use tools QoS tools which may better suit your purposes. Having not used one, I'm not in a position to recommend them.

Re:Bufferbloat (1)

Wonko the Sane (25252) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400605)

I use Shorewall to configure packet filtering for me which does some QoS support [shorewall.net] . It seems simple enough but I'm not sure how to know if it uses or is affected by the new kernel options. I understand packet filtering a lot better than I understand traffic control.

Android? As in Google? As in NSA spyware? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400335)

Why would I want that anywhere near my kernel?? Sure hope i can 'root' it out...

Power Management (3, Interesting)

Phantasmagoria (1595) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400391)

Any improvements to power management? It pains me that my laptop gets 4 hours battery life when in Windows 7 but only 2 hours when in Linux. In both cases it's just idle with nothing special running in the background. Or is this a problem with the distribution?

Re:Power Management (4, Interesting)

TheLordPhantom (2527654) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400467)

Mostly it is a problem with the video drivers. Especially AMD. The AMD open source drivers are horrendously inefficient. And, in my experience, the proprietary drivers aren't a whole lot better, but even worse, break everything. So I would say power issues are at the distribution level, not the kernel level.

Re:Power Management (2)

MurukeshM (1901690) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400561)

I am not sure, but I think the kernel power regression bug was patched months ago: http://linux.slashdot.org/story/11/11/11/2036245/linux-kernel-power-bug-is-fixed [slashdot.org] .. Perhaps the fix hasn't hit your distro yet. Or is this something new? :(
It used to be (around Ubuntu 9.10/10.04) that Ubuntu got more life than Windows. I'm hoping to see those days come again.

Nice to see AOSP code in the mainline kernal. (3, Interesting)

Irick (1842362) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400449)

Seriously, they do some good work. I'm excited to see if this fixes sleep on some of the more obscure devices and gives us better power management.

Anyone rebuilding their kernel still? (4, Interesting)

devphaeton (695736) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400495)

Back in the Middle Ages (late 1990s through about 2004) I remember us all getting excited for new kernel releases, and then all rushing to download the source and build it. (By 'us' i mean myself and local geek friends, as well as our cohorts on various IRC channels).

Nowadays with auto-configuring, rolling release desktop distributions being the norm, is kernel building now only done in server room environments and for non-PC hardware?

This doesn't matter much, I'm just curious.

Re:Anyone rebuilding their kernel still? (2)

JeremyMorgan (1428075) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400563)

Yeah in the middle ages I was one of those rushing to the source and building it, but not as much anymore. I still rebuild it on my personal machine if I know I'll be using it a while, just to squeeze every last bit I can, but I'll readily admit I don't notice the difference in performance at all. I doubt I'll rebuild for this one as I don't see any features that really apply to me.

As a personal user, I see fewer reasons to spend a lot of time on kernel tweaking and building, not like it was 10 years ago.

Re:Anyone rebuilding their kernel still? (1)

Wonko the Sane (25252) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400591)

I still compile mine. I use git to download the sources so that's a lot easier now than the tarball and patch method. Compiling and installing a new kernel only requires a few minutes and then a reboot at a convienient time.

3.3, when did they get to 3? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39400501)

user@debian:~$ uname -r
2.6.32-5-amd64

Doesn't apt-get upgrade the kernel or do I have to do something else? I can't be running old Kernels, I'm sure my system will be so much better if I have the newest. Sure, it's an Intel Atom D525 CPU based system, that does nothing but serve pr0n, but that is important!

New "team" network driver (4, Interesting)

Elrond, Duke of URL (2657) | more than 2 years ago | (#39400555)

I am a bit confused with regards to the new team network driver which is going to eventually replace the current bonding net driver. The kernel newbies page says that it is user-space and uses libteam to do its work, but it also says that this new implementation will be more efficient.

How is this so? As network throughput keeps increasing, it is important to process each packet as quickly as possible. That's why network drivers and the packet filter are in the kernel. Wouldn't moving the new team/bonding work to user-space mean a lot more data for the kernel to copy back and forth between kernel and user spaces? And wouldn't this hurt efficiency? I'm sure the computer can keep up in most cases, but it seems this will require more CPU time to handle the work.

Just curious...

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