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Brazilian Schoolchildren Tagged By Computer Chips

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the combine-two-fetishes-into-one dept.

Privacy 288

New submitter smi.james.th writes with an AP story, and extracts from it: "'Grade-school students in a northeastern Brazilian city are using uniforms embedded with computer chips that alert parents if they are cutting classes, the city's education secretary, Coriolano Moraes, said Thursday.' Personally I don't find this too inspiring. Mr. Orwell certainly has warned the world about this."

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First post (-1, Redundant)

shentino (1139071) | more than 2 years ago | (#39462915)

n/t

Oh the possibilities (4, Insightful)

schrodingersGato (2602023) | more than 2 years ago | (#39462917)

I sure hope pedophiles in Brazil can't hack or learn to hack. Holy crap this is bad on so many levels

Re:Oh the possibilities (-1, Redundant)

ToiletBomber (2269914) | more than 2 years ago | (#39462957)

Mod parent up!

Re:Oh the possibilities (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39462961)

Yeah, 'cause predatory paedophiles will have such a hard time finding kids otherwise, right?

Re:Oh the possibilities (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39463007)

Finding kids, no. But, like any anti-social looking for a victim, it would help them find children in compromised situations where neither the victim, their family, nor the public will prevent the act, nor prosecute the offender. Or, do you think these fucks actually pick someone at random?

Re:Oh the possibilities (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39463053)

Certainly not at random, no, given that the vast majority of the time it's a family member or friend who perpetrates the offence.

Re:Oh the possibilities (1)

Cazekiel (1417893) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463315)

Let's say the pedo-hacker, good at what he does, has a preference: a young girl, aged 13, blonde, tiny. Let's say he goes on facebook and finds that preference: name, location, school they go to. Let's say he knows how to get into this chip-system, which might just list their names or giveaway-details (which may or may not be the case, but for argument's sake, it does). Oh hey, there's lil' Jenny McVulnerable, waiting outside for the bus stop.

Yea I know, it's not the USUAL, but things like this bring up the UN-usual.

just put them in the microwave (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463015)

that will kill them

Re:just put them in the microwave (5, Insightful)

Gonoff (88518) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463039)

That is probably illegal in Brazil. Even if it is legal to do that to the kids, their parents might object.

Re:just put them in the microwave (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39463101)

You owe me a new keyboard.

Re:just put them in the microwave (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39463193)

Pedophiles a few threads up? Child murder by microwave?

Is this SlashDOT or SlashERMOVIE?

Re:just put them in the microwave (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39463297)

So it has come to this...

Re:Oh the possibilities (2)

jordanjay29 (1298951) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463023)

Lo-tech hacking method, just put your t-shirt in your locker, slip on a different one and skip class anyways. GPS is happy and so is the kid.

Re:Lo-tech hacking (1)

TaoPhoenix (980487) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463081)

No, you need your buddy to take your shirt to class with him. Is the GPS good enough to know "two people are in the same chair?"

Re:Lo-tech hacking (2)

jordanjay29 (1298951) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463109)

That works until classes start moving around, like gym, theatre, shop, etc or meeting in different rooms. Not to mention having to make special cases for days with assemblies, field trips and other special circumstances.

I'd guess that would be a huge load of work, and schools would be better off just making sure kids are in the school itself, and letting the teachers and staff ensure that students are in class once they're inside.

Re:Lo-tech hacking (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463161)

Do you really think they're putting a GPS (plus some kind of GSM modem to keep track of the location ) in each uniform? And that whole setup fits "underneath each school's coat-of-arms"?

It's probably a basic RFID tag that gets logged by a reader by the door.

Re:Lo-tech hacking (2)

hawguy (1600213) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463313)

Do you really think they're putting a GPS (plus some kind of GSM modem to keep track of the location ) in each uniform? And that whole setup fits "underneath each school's coat-of-arms"?

It's probably a basic RFID tag that gets logged by a reader by the door.

They don't need GPS to track RFID chips on-campus, they just need RFID readers at every classroom and building exits.

Re:Oh the possibilities (2)

jorlando (145683) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463089)

Schools (public or private) in Brazil don't have lockers for students. Maybe some private schools that area modelled after foreign schools.

Hello Brazil! (1)

TaoPhoenix (980487) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463125)

You're new to the news on Big Brother! Welcome to the Axis of Oppression!

Re:Oh the possibilities (2)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463245)

It's not a GPS, just RFID.

Re:Oh the possibilities (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39463031)

I'm sure you can find a "pedophile angle" for pretty much anything.
With that said, this is stupid and I don't have any reason to defend it.

Get used to it (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39463033)

The actions those kids take when not in class could have a harmful and costly impact on others (vandalism, illegal drug use causing health problems that must then be paid for, a lack of education resulting in more stupid grown-ups that can't hold a job and drag on the economy, etc.). In addition, plenty of parents want their kids to go to school because it keeps them safe and is ultimately good for them.

So, there are direct incentives to make sure the kids go to school. Those incentives are strong enough that people will eventually give over to them, and embrace technologies that give them easy, cheap, and effective ways of enforcing this behavior.

However....

This doesn't just apply to kids, it applies to everyone. The actions any person takes impacts one's neighbors, and as such everyone has direct incentives to encircle everyone else in systems of control. This isn't a matter of "them" wanting to take "our" freedoms away. It is am matter of "us" wanting to make sure "they" don't do things that have a negative impact on "us." This principle is universal.

The desire for freedom will always be in conflict with the desire to limit the freedom of one's neighbors...and eventually the desire to protect one's self and one's own will always win out over the desire to protect the freedoms of one's neighbors.

Just watch, you will see.

Re:Get used to it (5, Insightful)

epyT-R (613989) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463181)

The actions those kids take when not in class could have a harmful and costly impact on others (vandalism, illegal drug use causing health problems that must then be paid for, a lack of education resulting in more stupid grown-ups that can't hold a job and drag on the economy, etc.). In addition, plenty of parents want their kids to go to school because it keeps them safe and is ultimately good for them.

I guess you didn't take into account the psychological harm from obsessive, oppressive, non-stop surveillance into every aspect of life.. your statement here is also quite black and white.. school is not pure 'good' or pure 'bad', nor does cutting a class equate to 'vandalism' or drug use (which is also not pure 'good' or pure 'bad.')

This doesn't just apply to kids, it applies to everyone. The actions any person takes impacts one's neighbors, and as such everyone has direct incentives to encircle everyone else in systems of control. This isn't a matter of "them" wanting to take "our" freedoms away. It is am matter of "us" wanting to make sure "they" don't do things that have a negative impact on "us." This principle is universal.

and this is the attitude that will ensure we do live out that dystopia of infinite control of others = infinite freedom for the individual. is that really what you want?

Re:Get used to it (2)

mattventura (1408229) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463271)

It sounds like it's just automated attendance. Your RFID in your shirt gets scanned at the door. No different than a teacher taking attendance the old-fashioned way. A lot of schools call the parents if their student is marked absent, so it's no different than that.

Re:Get used to it (2)

GmExtremacy (2579091) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463285)

The actions those kids take when not in class could have a harmful and costly impact on others

Right. Just like you could be a murderer. But I'd prefer not to assume guilt or restrict actions based on what could happen.

They might want them to be in school, but I don't see that as a reason to be overly paranoia about it. It's not the end of the world if they skip class a few times.

and is ultimately good for them.

That would really depend on what you think of the current public educational system.

Re:Oh the possibilities (2)

hawguy (1600213) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463211)

I sure hope pedophiles in Brazil can't hack or learn to hack. Holy crap this is bad on so many levels

I don't understand what kind of RFID hack will help a pedophile?

What good will it do to be able to scan the t-shirt of the kid walking by his van and know that it's child #1231812421?

It doesn't appear that the RFID chips will contain any identifying information, and why should they -- they just need a number to link the child to the database.

Besides, most kids (at least in the USA) these days are already broadcasting a unique ID through their phone's Wifi MAC address or unencrypted cell phone signalling.

Re:Oh the possibilities (1)

thegarbz (1787294) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463255)

Oh my god take off your tinfoil hat! This is a basic RFID asset tracking system. It identifies who is in a building at any given time and is no more intrusive than a roll call system.

So what if a pedophile gets access to the system. It's not like they can track the movements of the person anywhere they are with it.

Yeah, this is a job for face recognition CCTV! (3, Funny)

Dr. Spork (142693) | more than 2 years ago | (#39462925)

Doing this with chips is barbaric. We must do this with cameras and biometrics, hopefully also we'll get drones involved somehow. That's the American way!

Re:Yeah, this is a job for face recognition CCTV! (5, Funny)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | more than 2 years ago | (#39462947)

Doing this with chips is barbaric.

No, it's British. The American way would be doing it with fries.

Re:Yeah, this is a job for face recognition CCTV! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39462971)

No, that would be the British way as well.

Rag on America all you want, but we didn't invent the chip sandwich [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Yeah, this is a job for face recognition CCTV! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39463165)

Wrong!

The American way would have schools looking like prisons. Oh wait. They already do!

Re:Yeah, this is a job for face recognition CCTV! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39462975)

The American way is to put metal detectors and police officers in schools, randomly have drug sniffing dogs, conduct searches without warrants and use whatever material is confiscated (illegal or not) to intimidate children and teenagers.

Brought to you as an evolution of the "hall pass", where kids can't even go to the bathroom without written authorization.

Re:Yeah, this is a job for face recognition CCTV! (2)

amiga3D (567632) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463009)

What ever happened to taking role? What kind of incompetent idiots are running schools when they need to chip the kids to keep up with them?

Re:Yeah, this is a job for face recognition CCTV! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39463137)

What ever happened to taking role? What kind of incompetent idiots are running schools when they need to chip the kids to keep up with them?

The same one's that taught you roll vs. role?

Re:Yeah, this is a job for face recognition CCTV! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39463191)

What ever happened to taking role? What kind of incompetent idiots are running schools when they need to chip the kids to keep up with them?

The same one's that taught you roll vs. role?

Yeah, you've met them too. They taught you ones vs. one's.

Re:Yeah, this is a job for face recognition CCTV! (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463247)

the other guy got his learnin' from the Kaiser, I think.

Fuck yes! (4, Funny)

owenferguson (521762) | more than 2 years ago | (#39462929)

Sounds like the ideal provocation to strip buck naked and cut some class.

Re:Fuck yes! (1)

dgatwood (11270) | more than 2 years ago | (#39462945)

More like "Go over to your friend's house, change, then convince your friend to carry your uniform in his/her backpack."

I will reiterate.... (4, Insightful)

wanzeo (1800058) | more than 2 years ago | (#39462931)

Technology CANNOT solve social problems. It can only hide symptoms.

Re:I will reiterate.... (4, Insightful)

thegarbz (1787294) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463249)

It can SHOW the symptoms. Seriously every school in the world already does this kind of checking. A roll call at the start of the class is the normal way.

Throughout all of my highschool I've been wondering why we don't do something more productive with technology to automate this waste of the first 5 minutes of every class and incorporate all other services as well such as library loans with technology such as RFID.

To be perfectly clear GPS tracking of students off school property is completely unacceptable, but this is not the case. This looks like a basic system to see who is in the class. An automated roll call. It's not solving anything, it's simply automating what we do already.

Re:I will reiterate.... (1)

ShanghaiBill (739463) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463327)

Technology CANNOT solve social problems.

Why not?

Technology has solved lots of my social problems. I used to have trouble locating family and friends at the mall. Now we all have cellphones, so the problem is solved.

Technology cannot solve all social problems, but it can certainly solve some of them.

American parents will lap this up (2)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 2 years ago | (#39462935)

It promises security and at the same time obviates the need for the parents to be responsible - the perfect American dream.

Re:American parents will lap this up (1)

TaoPhoenix (980487) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463121)

Just go the extra step and pay the Cool Kid to wear these, to make them The Thing to wear, so that anyone resisting gets socially outcast for a month.

(/Bitter)

Re:American parents will lap this up (1)

GmExtremacy (2579091) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463231)

It can't be helped. Child molesters lurk around every corner, and what if a kid skips class? That would be the end of the world as we know it! Therefore, we need to spy on them at all times and track them. That way they'll get used to the idea of being tracked and they'll accept government surveillance when they get older.

Grand slam!

Evil (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39462937)

This is nothing short of evil in the guise of good. Sure it sounds like a good idea, "It's for the Children!" but I think we all know this is bad. Anyone here think this is a good thing?

Re:Evil (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463177)

Explain exactly how is this "evil" (and remember this is a simple RFID tag, not a GPS locator).

Re:Evil (1)

mcavic (2007672) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463317)

It is pretty Orwellian, but I actually do think it's a good idea. I assume it's RFID rather than GPS, which means all they're doing is registering you at the front door. And in addition to skipping classes, you have to think about kids getting abducted while walking to school or waiting for the bus.

How would this work? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39462939)

Wouldn't kids just work out that they could get one student to carry other students uniforms around in a bag? What ever happened to a good ol' roll call?

Re:How would this work? (1)

jordanjay29 (1298951) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463045)

Student's Friend: "Susie had to miss class for a [theatre/sports/music/etc] [practice/trip/performance/game/etc] today, Teacher." Roll call fooled.

Re:How would this work? (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463113)

That's a terrible system, then. Here the teacher always marks the absence, regardless of the reasons, and then the parent/legal guardian can justify it later.

Freedom's pining for the fjords (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39462953)

will do wonders for education (1)

keeboo (724305) | more than 2 years ago | (#39462967)

Those kids will learn very well that

Being monitored: restrict your behavior.
Absence of monitoring: you are free, do whatever you like.

Those will be good citizens, as long as you don't forget to keep them leashed all the time.

Error rate? (2)

tragedy (27079) | more than 2 years ago | (#39462977)

I'm assuming this is just an rfid system and not something more elaborate. The question becomes what happens to students who are reported absent by malfunctioning or poorly set up equipment and incorrect information in databases?. In an ideal world, this wouldn't be a problem since the student would be able to verify their presence some other way, then the problem would be conscientiously addressed and corrected. This is the real world, however. In the real world, school administrators tend to be authoritarians and extremely blunt thinkers. The prevalence of ill-thought out "zero tolerance" policies in the area of education makes this perfectly clear. Students identified as absent by this system probably won't be given a chance to prove their innocence and may stand a good chance of being punished more harshly if they try.

miss reads (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463037)

With a big clump of people moving thought the door at the same time may lead to missing a few reads and with a big load of people beeps may not help as much as they do with one person at a time with a turnstile.

Re:miss reads (1)

kenh (9056) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463133)

If it misses you on the way in, it will get you on the way out.

By creating a 'choke point' where only one student can go through at a time (turnstile?) the reader can be assumed accurate, but if you want a backup plan, video record the faces of students that pass through the door...

Re:miss reads (2)

hawguy (1600213) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463281)

With a big clump of people moving thought the door at the same time may lead to missing a few reads and with a big load of people beeps may not help as much as they do with one person at a time with a turnstile.

Many kids already enter their school single file through the metal detector, so they'll be able to get clean RFID reads.

I've run dozens of road races where literally hundreds of people were running across the RFID mats at the start, finish and random split locations, and I can only think of one instance where I didn't get a chip time (which is recorded separatly from clock time), and that was the time that someone stepped on my foot in a crowded start, flattening out the RFID tag (which put a kink in the antenna). I think RFID can handle a few dozen kids walking through the doorway together.

Re:Error rate? (2)

b4dc0d3r (1268512) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463195)

Zero tolerance means zero responsibility, and they are made by smart people to avoid these kinds of problems.

Any time an administrator has to make a decision that may affect a student, they open themselves up to all kinds of trouble. Even if you win, a parent filing a lawsuit is at best a distraction and at worst a money drain. And just having a parent waging war, making noise at PTA meetings, or whatever they can think of to harass the administrator, it can become quite the pain. Usually, some dispute with a parent leads to this type of policy, to prevent it happening again. If it happens at one school, you can bet another school will at least consider trying to avoid the same thing.

I'm not even going to attempt to point out what's wrong with the rest of this, other than leave a quote from the article here.

After a student skips classes three times parents will be asked to explain the absences.

Re:Error rate? (1)

dlp211 (1722746) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463243)

Easy fix, teachers take attendance still, only oddities need to be investigated; ie. student wasn't absent but isn't in class, check physical log and determine if it is a defective tag.

So what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39462991)

I don't understand why people think this big-brother-ish... It's not like they've just decided to take attendance starting with this new system. This just means the teachers don't have to do it by hand and waste class time to do so.

PoppyCock (3, Insightful)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463011)

Declaring that this is bad is a joke. These are tags in the uniforms of CHILDREN. It is as orwellian as putting RFID in my dogs. I would love to know if my teens cut school. And I am just fine with using a tag in their clothes.

Now, if they want to do this to an adult, or forced embed it in a human, that is a DIFFERENT issue.

Re:PoppyCock (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39463025)

This is one of the great things about living in the UK. Children actually have rights.

Re:PoppyCock (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39463085)

This is one of the great things about living in the UK. Children actually have rights.

My children have the right to do what i tell them to do.

Re:PoppyCock (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463141)

I'm pretty sure they don't have the right of skipping classes. I don't see what rights does this violate that a guy manually logging their names to paper wouldn't.

This thread seems filled by Luddites, "uh, it's dangerous because it's a CHIP!!1!".

Re:PoppyCock (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463275)

luddites, huh?

maybe us 'luddites' can see the creeping anti-freedom that you seem so smugly unaware of.

sure, embrace any new idea and don't question where it will go. sure! what harm could it do?

don't bother to think too long. your favorite tv show is on!!

Re:PoppyCock (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463301)

Until you can explain exactly how is this "anti-freedom", you're nothing but Luddites.

Slippery slope is a fallacy. Accepting something harmless like this doesn't force you to accept actual rights-violating systems.

Oh, and I don't watch TV.

Re:PoppyCock (4, Insightful)

Trepidity (597) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463027)

Ah yes, the conservative mentality: children are pets of their adult owners.

Re:PoppyCock (-1, Troll)

RightSaidFred99 (874576) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463069)

Ah yes, the hippie mentality, children are your buddies and it's pretty cool when they're 15 so they can drink and do pot with their cool parents.

Children are the wards of their adult parents. It's a lot of responsibility and work and you know what? You're right, fuck that let's just let those little bastards run wild! Why would I give a shit where my kid is, fuck it - let him go to some condemned hotel and smoke crack!

Fucking tosser.

Re:PoppyCock (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39463159)

We hippies have matured. Our children have to be at least 16 before they can drink and smoke pot with us.

Re:PoppyCock (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39463223)

Oh... Well, I didn't know that. Yeah, at 16 they're perfectly ready to party, so disregard my comments. But back when it was 15 it was a little irresponsible.

Hey buddy, that's as liberal as it comes (1, Funny)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463095)

Ah yes, the conservative mentality: children are pets of their adult owners.

Conservatives are the ones for freedom and elimination of government oversight at all levels.

Liberals are the ones who do things "for your own good".

Get it straight man or you end up voting for exactly the opposite result as you desire. See: present.

Re:Hey buddy, that's as liberal as it comes (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463265)

Conservatives are the ones for freedom and elimination of government oversight at all levels.

(new keyboard; please send me one.)

btw, thanks for the bellylaugh.

Re:PoppyCock (1)

kenh (9056) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463117)

And the liberal mentality is they are the wards of the state - the state will provide all their needs, in a manner the state finds appropriate.

Whee! It's fun to make up positions for other people, I can see why you do that trepidity...

Re:PoppyCock (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39463183)

Ah yes, the conservative mentality: children are pets of their adult owners.

Liberals have kids by accident because they fail to use birth control. I mean if you're a responsible person who thinks of those things you wouldn't be a liberal.

Conservatives have mostly planned kids as extensions of their own vanity. That's why the kids are little more than property sort of like a car they have to wash twice a day.

Couldn't tell you which one's worse.

Re:PoppyCock (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463257)

ahem.

pets are usually far better behaved.

Not sure why you want that (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463083)

These are tags in the uniforms of CHILDREN

Early monitoring by the state is especially depressing.

I would love to know if my teens cut school.

It's too bad instead you'll only know if your kids clothes are at school.

I'd say the going rate per day to hold a jacket in my backpack going to class could easily exceed $1, even in Brazil.

So why is it valuable to train your kids to be sneaky bastards?

If the state is not monitoring them you can place much more sophisticated devices for spot checks without them even thinking about the possibility. Once you get a paranoid teen you are utterly screwed and blind.

Re:Not sure why you want that (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463209)

This is not more "monitoring the state" than a traditional roll call. It's just logging entrances and exits. Doing it automatically or by hand is irrelevant.

Re:PoppyCock (5, Insightful)

causality (777677) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463111)

Now, if they want to do this to an adult, or forced embed it in a human, that is a DIFFERENT issue.

If you had always been tagged from the time you were a small child, and had all your life to get used to the idea, would you still think so?

That's the danger.

It's early conditioning (indoctrination) for a future time when it will be easier to justify (excuse) doing this to adults. Right now lots of adults feel the way you do about tagging or chipping adults. That makes it politically difficult or impossible to do that right now. That's about the only thing stopping it because politics is full of authoritarian types who would love to do it.

Re:PoppyCock (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39463151)

I think it's more likely they'll see that as being treated like a child the same way adults view curfews.

Re:PoppyCock (1)

causality (777677) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463235)

I think it's more likely they'll see that as being treated like a child the same way adults view curfews.

That sounds at first glance like a good point so I'll explain why it won't be that way.

Curfews can't so easily be excused by saying "well if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about from all this monitoring and tracking". Curfews can't so easily be used to track down and catch a murderer or rapist or other violent criminal, which really appeals to cowards who surrender their liberty and privacy for a promise of security.

Re:PoppyCock (1)

hawguy (1600213) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463303)

Now, if they want to do this to an adult, or forced embed it in a human, that is a DIFFERENT issue.

If you had always been tagged from the time you were a small child, and had all your life to get used to the idea, would you still think so?

That's the danger.

 

I spent 12 years of being forced to eat school cafeteria meals with no chance to go off-campus for lunch.

When I started college, I took full advantage of the freedom to eat fast food of my own choosing whenver I could afford it despite the fact that I had a "free" on-campus meal plan.

Just because someone accepts something in grade school doesn't mean that they won't appreciate giving it up after they are out of school.

Re:PoppyCock (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39463155)

I think many responsible parents don't want their children to be tracked *everywhere* they go. That is what this system is providing the opportunity for. There's nothing wrong with traditional roll call and computer scanning. Many schools in my local area have systems in place which send text messages if a child is not at roll call.

Re:PoppyCock (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463227)

It's and RFID tag, it doesn't "track them everywhere they go", it just records the timestamp of when they go through the reader.

Re:PoppyCock (2)

sixtyeight (844265) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463199)

These are tags in the uniforms of CHILDREN. It is as orwellian as putting RFID in my dogs.

I think the fine point here is, it's as Orwellian as who putting RFID in your dogs?

The police? Animal Control? A neighbor? The Chinese restaurant down the street?

They're your dogs, and legally children (in the U.S., anyway) are considered the property of parents until the age of majority. But these are mandated uniforms. Other parents may not want their children tagged, and their choice doesn't seem to matter quite so much. I would think this would be opt-in so that it would. Either way, the child's choice doesn't enter into it which is par for the course. It'll all come out in therapy twenty years down the line, and that's only if the kids don't start clipping the RFIDs off their uniforms anyway.

Re:PoppyCock (1)

icebraining (1313345) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463273)

Should I get to choose whether my child can reply to a roll call or not? If not, how is this different?

For fucks sake, people, it's a damn RFID tag, not a GPS embedded under their skin.

Re:PoppyCock (1)

GmExtremacy (2579091) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463253)

Treat children like subhumans and that's exactly what you'll get. I have no doubt that accepting this type of thing will just instill a belief in them that surveillance is okay.

Re:PoppyCock (1)

causality (777677) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463305)

Treat children like subhumans and that's exactly what you'll get. I have no doubt that accepting this type of thing will just instill a belief in them that surveillance is okay.

I believe that's what it is intended to do. For just that reason they're keeping it fairly tame and benign.

Anyone who thinks it will stay that way is a fool. It would be like expecting a business not to look for new markets when it is in their nature to do so.

Re:PoppyCock (1)

Cazekiel (1417893) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463267)

It is as orwellian as putting RFID in my dogs. Your dog will run into traffic, run away in general or get stolen from your yard. A preteen/teenager, doing wrong, can learn from their own mistakes should they skip school; learning process and general roll call, do you speak it?

Now, if they want to do this to an adult, or forced embed it in a human, that is a DIFFERENT issue. Kids are people too, remember, and the more we try to control them, the more creative they're going to get with their ways of getting out of things--and the angrier and more resentful they're going to be about how society/their parents treat them, to boot. And please, I'd say there are more of these supposed "adults" that need a chip on 'em than schoolkids that play hooky every now and again. If I have the choice between surgically implanting a chip into a serial drunk driver/pedophile/etc.'s brain stem and slipping the device in a kid's pocket, I'd go with the former.

Good ol' fashioned attendance (1)

Emperor Tiberius (673354) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463041)

Whatever happened to good ol' fashioned attendance? Back when I was going to school, it was done with Scantron forms. The teacher took attendance and sent a runner to deliver the form(s) to the attendance office where they were processed. Once it was determined that a kid was out that shouldn't have been, that office called the parent to ascertain where the kid was. Simple, effective, and hardly Orwellian.

Don't get me started on taking attendance in college courses, though...

Dad, these wafers taste like crap... (1)

crovira (10242) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463093)

Why put them in their uniform? The kid gets naked and your tracking goes in a messy pile of laundry next to the bed he's cavorting in. Or they ditch the uniforms are go for a ride while the uniform is still reporting them as school.

Make the kids eat the chips every few days. This way you'll be able to identify their mangled remains after their car goes off the road or after they get kidnapped, murdered, their bodies set on fire after the parents cant pay the ransom....

Shhh (3, Informative)

kenh (9056) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463099)

Don't tell the kids there are 'magic transmitters' in their school uniforms - they'll just take off the RFID tag-laden article of clothing and put it in a friends backpack...

And the teachers will wonder how her computer says every student is in the class when half the seats are empty?

low tech solution (2)

tortovroddle (1969948) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463129)

Take off your T-shirt and give it to a friend. He will enter and stay in school with it. At the end of class, take it back outside the school.

Re:hihg tech solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39463149)

Take off your T-shirt and eat it.
Shit out the shirt in a classroom.
???
Profit.

Do we need this to tell if kids cut classes? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39463147)

Aren't there other, cheaper ways to see if a kid cuts classes?, like say, roll call?, or maybe just the teacher looking at the empty seats?

If it was, say, for kidnapping, that would be one thing; kidnapping in the area is quite common, but school attendance?

Need to force them to learn science (1)

hessian (467078) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463179)

If not, they'll become fundamentalists or Muslim terrorists. Or racists.

Normally I'm against Orwellian schemes, but this one is for a good cause.

my school library had anti theft tags in the books (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39463185)

so we used to rip them out and stuff them in the bags and jackets of the people we didn't like (kids and teachers alike)

if there is a penalty for not having the tags then you can bet kids will use that against the others

how does this solve anything? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39463201)

How long until little Suzie is carrying around 4 shirts/skirts in her bag for $10 each for her friends?

What Are We Teaching? (1)

walkerp1 (523460) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463205)

We certainly aren't teaching responsibility. That requires trust. I've reared several kids throughout the years. Some I micromanaged. Later, I learned to teach them morals and ethics and allowed them to develop their own behaviors while still maintaining a safety net where required. The latter group seem much more well-adjusted and have avoided a lot of the trouble the first set still manages to find. In my opinion, the government is not doing these kids, and itself by extension, any good.

As a practical matter (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39463215)

If I remember 4 to 14 year olds, there isn't much to see here. Many other schools have done punch-in/out with ID cards and finger swiping, and RFID is the same. A lot of the senarios in the comments are extraordinary cases that you WANT the system to fail on so a parent can intervene.
 
In the US, you wouldn't use this system, rather you'd add your school to your 'Find My Friends' app.

The solution is simple. (1)

Cazekiel (1417893) | more than 2 years ago | (#39463219)

Something tells me that these kids' backpacks are gonna be bulging with extra clothes, leaving their parents wondering why every time they hit refresh on creepyorwellianshit.com their kid hasn't moved from the bleachers by the football field for three hours straight. "Well, at least they're at school!" they say as lil' Bobby's wandering around town in their everyday-outfit with half of his class.

That's terrible! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39463277)

...how many is a brazilian?

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