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Australian National Broadband Network Releases 3-Year Plan

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the internet-to-the-people dept.

Australia 121

New submitter pcritter writes "The Australian Government has just announced the 3-year roll-out plan for its ambitious National Broadband Network. The plan details 3.5 million premises (30%) across the country to be connected to the NBN by mid-2015. A map is available showing coverage areas. The plan represents a major milestone in the NBN project, which aims to connect all of Australia with high speed broadband by 2021, with the 93% of the population on fiber to the premises (FTTP) of speeds up to 1000Mbits, and the rest on fixed wireless or satellite."

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121 comments

!=news (-1, Flamebait)

pbjones (315127) | more than 2 years ago | (#39520461)

sorry, this is just saying what was going to happen anyway, a political hash to move focus away from the bad stuff.

Re:!=news (2)

Theophany (2519296) | more than 2 years ago | (#39520993)

I struggle to understand the value of 1000Mbits FTTP when the government is ruthlessly trying to censor the Internet. Don't get me wrong, I think that this is a great plan in theory (and practice, if it happens), but I can't help but feel that the entire endeavour is somewhat devalued by the Australian executive's policies on web censorship.

Sure, it's no Iran or China on the international censorship scale, but it is pretty poor for what is considered a 'Western' nation.

And it's mostly areas that have decent ADSL cover (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39520481)

Pointless.
Most of the country has O.K. network coverage, the problem is in the rural areas where ANY net access is thin, so they are pushing this into the high density area - at increased customer cost, where it's not actually needed.

Re:And it's mostly areas that have decent ADSL cov (5, Insightful)

Nursie (632944) | more than 2 years ago | (#39521039)

No, it doesn't.

Most of the country has slow, horrifically overpriced ADSL, which is patchy even in some urban areas. The Telcos were not and are not doing anything about it. The government stepping in is exactly what was needed.

Re:And it's mostly areas that have decent ADSL cov (2)

Mr0bvious (968303) | more than 2 years ago | (#39521515)

As one of privileged I get at best 1.5Mb with serious crc error counts over my ADSL2 connection with daily dropouts (usually at the most important times) - that's the best my line can do and I'm in the nice dense suburbs. Thanks Telstra.

I beg thee, bring fiber to my house please.

Re:And it's mostly areas that have decent ADSL cov (2)

blackpaw (240313) | more than 2 years ago | (#39522181)

Exactly, I'm on the Wacol exchange about 10k from the Birsbane CBD - at the end of 4k of wet copper. Lucky to get 1.8mbs and thats dodgy. NBN work is starting this year, should be connected by this time next year. Can't wait - naked DSL and VOIP finally!

Re:And it's mostly areas that have decent ADSL cov (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39529505)

If you're on the NBN next year, you will be using Fibre, not Naked DSL. Naked DSL is DSL over the existing copper line without a phone service attached to it. VOIP should also work fine for you even with a 64k upload speed. That said, I'm for the NBN and the real benefits it will bring.

Re:And it's mostly areas that have decent ADSL cov (4, Informative)

bernywork (57298) | more than 2 years ago | (#39521359)

Seconded to previous poster, my parents live in the 'burbs in Sydney on the border of two exchanges and can't get ADSL, so no, this isn't a complete waste.

Targetting higher value areas where they are going to get a large take up and get income to support the roll out is also a good business decision.

CSIRO is building the technology to do NBN for rural. It's called Ngara:

http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/380377/csiro_pushes_digital_dividend_face_nbn_spectrum_buyout/ [computerworld.com.au]

Re:And it's mostly areas that have decent ADSL cov (3, Insightful)

cyssero (1554429) | more than 2 years ago | (#39521483)

I'm in a regional (not rural) district and every suburb here has ADSL2+ connectivity. If you can't get ADSL2+, you can still get the pricey ADSL1 8Mbit through Telstra or Telstra wholesaler.

Even though I get 13Mbit~ at a good price, fibre is still very necessary as we're already starting to push the limits of what's available to us today. What I try and explain to people is that this is infrastructure that all communications will pass through for decades to come. It's one of the first times in my life where I can think of the Australian government really being ambitious with infrastructure development. The applications for this will be huge, it's much more than just triple-play. There's the possibility for telemedicine, telesurgery and of course, more telecommuting than ever before.

In 6 months they'll be starting NBN roll-out in my neighbourhood, and I'll be able to get 100/40 for what I think is a reasonable price that will only fall in the years to come.

Re:And it's mostly areas that have decent ADSL cov (2)

19thNervousBreakdown (768619) | more than 2 years ago | (#39521711)

And who could forget, advanced teledildonics.

Re:And it's mostly areas that have decent ADSL cov (1)

shinzawai (964083) | more than 2 years ago | (#39529543)

Well played Sir!

Well, does it? (1)

johnsnails (1715452) | more than 2 years ago | (#39520491)

Does it include the coalitions plan to scrape it when they are returned to power at the next election?

Re:Well, does it? (1)

daktari (1983452) | more than 2 years ago | (#39520497)

You sound like it's a certainty that the coalition will get back in. I'm not so sure. After all, Abbott is leading the party...

Re:Well, does it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39520527)

At this point it would take a miracle to save labor. Not even the publics dislike of Abbott can overcome the incompetence, lies, waste and contempt shown to the Australian public by the current government. Even abomination that is Abbott will find it hard to lose from here (not impossible, just bloody hard).

Re:Well, does it? (1)

johnsnails (1715452) | more than 2 years ago | (#39520647)

why is he so bad?

Re:Well, does it? (4, Insightful)

AbRASiON (589899) | more than 2 years ago | (#39521143)

Several issues but the key word would have to be

"jesus"

Re:Well, does it? (1)

johnsnails (1715452) | more than 2 years ago | (#39528193)

Yeah you are probably right, Kevin Rudd and John Howard did attend church, but Abbott comes across more sincere. Its a shame because I think he would make a good leader.

They call him The Mad Monk (1)

Namarrgon (105036) | more than 2 years ago | (#39529983)

for a reason, and it's not just his name or that he attended seminary school.

Read up on his actions as Health Minister, where he fought to block the drug RU486 (a friend of a friend died as a direct result), and Parliament had to vote specially to restrain him. Religious beliefs should not become national policy.

Re:Well, does it? (2)

LordLucless (582312) | more than 2 years ago | (#39520673)

There's still hope that someone will pull a Julia on Abbot and stick Turnbull back in the top spot.

Re:Well, does it? (1)

CoopersPale (444672) | more than 2 years ago | (#39520801)

We can certainly hope!

Re:Well, does it? (1)

nedlohs (1335013) | more than 2 years ago | (#39523489)

Never underestimate the ability of the coalition to lose an election.

Labor in NSW kept winning elections even though they were completely inept. Of course Labor did finally lose but they won more than one "unwinnable" election before getting the boot.

Re:Well, does it? (1)

johnsnails (1715452) | more than 2 years ago | (#39520531)

yeh its not a given. i just hope it is.

No singing or dancing... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39520509)

Now if they gave the people 1000Mbits at current adsl prices, then we could sing and dance about this. The crazy thing is that there is no real benefit for the people, the cost of broadband will still be the same as what people pay now for the lowest bandwidth (adsl equiv) entry to the NBN. In fact it will probably cost more for the people, we have to pay for this with taxes as well. This is just one big pork barrel project.

Re:No singing or dancing... (2)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 2 years ago | (#39521081)

From what I've heard of Australian broadband, I expect a 1000Mb/s connection to be very cheap. It will, however, come with a 3GB/month cap, with a $10/GB charge for overage...

Re:No singing or dancing... (2)

kiddygrinder (605598) | more than 2 years ago | (#39521421)

it is at current dsl prices [on.net]

Re:No singing or dancing... (0)

iosq (1084989) | more than 2 years ago | (#39522121)

Wow, what a fucking joke, touted as a 100Mbit network, yet the cheapest plan with a reasonable cap is still almost $100 at that speed. But then again, it's Conroy and the Labor party's baby, so can't expect to actually be told the truth. Practically counting down the days until that pond scum and his cronies are out of office.

Judgement (1)

LordLucless (582312) | more than 2 years ago | (#39520567)

Please, any non-Aussies reading this story, do not judge our nation on our Prime Minister's elocution in that video. We know. We're sorry.

Re:Judgement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39520589)

Yes non-Aussies. Us Aussies like to apologize for things that we don't really need to apologize for. (ala Kevin Rudd and the stolen generation)

Re:Judgement (0)

LordLucless (582312) | more than 2 years ago | (#39520621)

I guess that's true. It's not like she was elected PM, after all - she only got there due to a particular back-stabbing independant.

Re:Judgement (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39520657)

I thought Australian's don't directly elect their prime-minister.

And how can an independent back-stab... they're independent.

Re:Judgement (1, Informative)

LordLucless (582312) | more than 2 years ago | (#39520705)

I thought Australian's don't directly elect their prime-minister.

Fine, we didn't elect her party. Happy?

And how can an independent back-stab... they're independent.

They back-stab by being voted in on a conservative platform by their electorate, and then jumping ship to back the Labor party.

Re:Judgement (2)

bug1 (96678) | more than 2 years ago | (#39520833)

They back-stab by being voted in on a conservative platform by their electorate, and then jumping ship to back the Labor party.

You mean slipper ?

Coalition practically drove him out of his party, blame the elected coalition MP's for that.

Re:Judgement (2)

LordLucless (582312) | more than 2 years ago | (#39520903)

No, I meant Oakeshott. More detailed response on your other post.

Re:Judgement (1)

dbIII (701233) | more than 2 years ago | (#39522763)

Labor failed to win the last election but Abbott couldn't even convince rusted on conservatives to team up with him.

Re:Judgement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39520707)

The independent went against the wishes of his electorate.

Re:Judgement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39520671)

Read the constitution, it's not very long, you might learn something.

Re:Judgement (1)

bug1 (96678) | more than 2 years ago | (#39520811)

"It's not like she was elected PM"

Care to elaborate... Which independent backstab who and how ?

She was elected by the parliment, australian voters elected the parliment, how is that not elected ?

Re:Judgement (1)

LordLucless (582312) | more than 2 years ago | (#39520895)

Rob Oakeshott. He was one of the three independents on whom the results of the hung parliament depended. Lyne (his electorate) has been a National stronghold [aec.gov.au] , regularly polling around Nationals 63% to Labour 36%, two-party preferred. Oakeshott was an ex-National member, turned independent. He knew his electorate, knew they'd voted him in on a conservative platform, but he still backed the formation of a Labor minority government.

Katter has said his decision to back Labor was only because both the other independents had already done so, making any action of his futile. If Oakeshott had actually represented the wishes of his electorate, the outcome would have been very different.

Re:Judgement (1)

bug1 (96678) | more than 2 years ago | (#39529075)

Rob Oakshot was elected as an independent in the previous election (in 2008), so they had a couple of years to judge him by his deeds irrespective of his words. Im not familiar with his campaign and if he did lead them to think he was conservative.

Im sure he thinks hes doing the right thing for his electorate, Abbott had his chance to bargin with him and he failed.

As it stands he is proabably the most influential MP the electorate has ever had. He has at least got the NBN started early in his electorate for one thing.

If members of Lyne feel hard done by, then from where i sit (Wannon, >60 years of coalition MPs) it looks like sour grapes.

Re:Judgement (2)

drsmithy (35869) | more than 2 years ago | (#39522099)

I guess that's true. It's not like she was elected PM, after all - she only got there due to a particular back-stabbing independant.

She was elected exactly the same way every other PM was elected.

One thing the last few years of Australian news reporting has taught me, is that damn near the whole country has NFI how our political system works. Scary stuff.

Re:Judgement (1)

LordLucless (582312) | more than 2 years ago | (#39522399)

She was elected exactly the same way every other PM was elected.

Uh, not really. Since 1910, she's only the second PM to have been put into position due to a hung parliament. The previous PM elected in such a fashion, Menzies, lasted only a year before the people who'd put him in power, turned on him, and dumped him for Curtin. In both situations, the party in power was decided not by the will of the people, but by politicking. It wasn't the electorate who decided to put a Labor government in power; the electorate voted for a 72-72 split. It was the Greens and the independents. Now, you can say that, as a representative system, those officials' votes represented the will of the people, but there's at least one clear case (Oakshott) who went decidedly against the will of his electorate.

Re:Judgement (1)

dbIII (701233) | more than 2 years ago | (#39522837)

I don't agree with your conclusion because the electorate voted for a former National and knew that he was no longer in the party. The "conservative" coalition has always been about major compromises and lately the Nationals have had to do nearly all of the compromising - hence a lot of ex-National Independants. You don't have to look beyond simple things like Coal Seam Gas to find issues to create a violent split.

Re:Judgement (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39520623)

In fact let us Aussies say sorry for everything, it was really our fault, we are to blame.
So please the rest of you, stop killing, suing, robbing, harming, manipulating each other and everything around you, we are really really really sorry.
OK. Good. Now the world is a better place. tnx.

Re:Judgement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39521089)

I can tell you're not a real Aussie. You didn't say "cunt" once.

Re:Judgement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39522205)

I was being polite you fuckin' dirty mongrel.

Re:Judgement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39520779)

Yeah, sure, we should have just kept sweeping it under the rug.

Re:Judgement (4, Insightful)

james.mcarthur (154849) | more than 2 years ago | (#39520653)

I'd like to apologise for the ill-informed comments from the "Aussies" above who think that Australia's current telecommunications infrastructure is "good". When areas 5kms from the cities CBD can't get broadband because of the incumbant telco, or are forced to use wireless that drops out when it rains, or aren't in the big three cities so there is no chance of broadband delivered by the cable network, or ... Problems that probably affect every other first world nation where warped conservative, fascist ideology has driven communications infrastructure deployment.

The NBN is already delivering benefits. They've significantly altered the backhaul networks around Australia so anyone who doesn't live in Sydney or Melbourne have the chance of receiving ADSL at a competitive rate (for the non-Aussies, and people who live in Sydney/Melbourne, Australia is more than just those two cities). They've managed to get the incumbant telco to agree to seperate their wholesale and retail arms and hand over infrastructure to NBNCo. More importantly they are actually building infrastructure that will be used for generations and will offer a return to successive Governments.

The Coalition's plan is to sell off what has been built already (because private industry can do it better, the same private industry that sat on their hands for the last 20 years..) to deploy wireless to some places (and do nothing about the gouging which the private companies do with wireless data whilst offering blistering fast speeds of up to 12Mbps) and a combination of FTTN/DSL/Cable to marginal electorates. Spending anywhere from $11 - 20b in the process.

Re:Judgement (1, Insightful)

CoopersPale (444672) | more than 2 years ago | (#39520791)

>>They've managed to get the incumbant telco to agree to seperate their wholesale and retail arms and hand over infrastructure to NBNCo.

This is a gross misrepresentation of the situation. The government is paying Telstra $11 Billion for access to its pits and manholes and the sale of _some_ of its infrastructure - they're certainly not handing over anything.
And private industry has historically been less effective in Australian telecommunications due to the dirty great monopoly of Telstra - which is just being replaced by the dirty great monopoly of the NBN.

Re:Judgement (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39521179)

You are missing something.. the Government SOLD Telstra (then Telecom) for $80M.

So, let's do some basic maths.
Telecom sold for: $80m
Government buying back most of it today for: $11m

Profit: $69M

Not too bad a profit for a 15 year venture.

Re:Judgement (2)

philmarcracken (1412453) | more than 2 years ago | (#39530599)

And private industry has historically been less effective in Australian telecommunications due to the dirty great monopoly of Telstra - which is just being replaced by the dirty great monopoly of the NBN.

Telstra was a monopoly in both the wholesale and retail sector. With this they could simply move the wholesale costs of services for competitors to just below that of their retail service offerings with their retail arm having to pay none of the wholesale costs, just overheads of a traditional retail business.

This is the current 'price squeeze' under investigation by the ACCC, again.

The NBN is a wholesale only network.. I fail to see how they could abuse a monopoly position in this manner... other than perhaps rising wholesale prices directly but lets be honest the government isn't as greedy as Telstra which, is saying something. Additionally every RSP that's using the network will make a fuss if the price rise was unjustified.

Re:Judgement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39520865)

Typical comment from Yet Another Politically Biased Person.

"When areas 5kms from the cities CBD can't get broadband"

http://www.adsl2exchanges.com.au/heatmap-state.php?State=VIC
http://www.adsl2exchanges.com.au/heatmap-state.php?State=NSW
http://www.adsl2exchanges.com.au/heatmap-state.php?State=QLD
http://www.adsl2exchanges.com.au/heatmap-state.php?State=ACT
http://www.adsl2exchanges.com.au/heatmap-state.php?State=WA
http://www.adsl2exchanges.com.au/heatmap-state.php?State=TAS
http://www.adsl2exchanges.com.au/heatmap-state.php?State=NT
http://www.adsl2exchanges.com.au/heatmap-state.php?State=SA

'private companies do with wireless data whilst offering blistering fast speeds of up to 12Mbps'

http://www.telstra.com.au/mobile-phones/coverage-networks/network-information/4g/

Instead of going down the path of ongoing technological advancements that make broadband faster and cheaper, we are paying through the nose for a stupidly advanced technology which will just go slowly up in price to cover the costs of massive infrastructure.

IMH, the social and economic benefit of PUBLIC, high bandwidth connections has massively diminishing returns once you pass the communication requirements of real-time video. We don't yet communicate with holograms.

Why do people believe that our current broadband speeds, both wireless and wired, would remain at ADSL2 and even LTE for much more than another 5 years? I mean, there is already VDSL2 tech (ironically, the NBN plans on using this in multi-story dwellings), and wireless has had and is projected to have a bandwidth growth profile that is just incredible.

Fiber will always be faster, but what the hell are you going to need over 100Mbit at the home for anyway... Really?

Invest everything in wireless, let the market do fixed. A mobile broadband of 50Mbit in 10 years, is better than a fixed 1Gb in 10. Mobile is where the social and economical benefits will be.

Our computers will be replaced by mobiles soon enough. It's all converging, just look at the new os designs. (windows 8, MacOS XI, GoogleOS).

BLAH!

Re:Judgement (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39520931)

The fact that you just do not fucking understand that wireless can not, will not and will never take the place of proper wired serives invalidates your post as complete fucking rot

Re:Judgement (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39520995)

Mod this up - there simply isn't enough room in the wireless spectrum to move the entirety of internet traffic to it now, let alone if people want more data, more quickly for more people in the future.

I'm one of the aussies who lives a mere 5km outside of a city and cannot get broadband of any description over the copper wire - we'd have to use dial-up if not for our 3G mobile solution which itself is incredibly slow and drops out many times every single day.

With the NBN we'll still only get fixed-point wireless in my area (better by far than non-fixed 3G: faster, dedicated, less drop-outs), so although I'm very pro-NBN it still isn't delivering enough either - but this is a giant step in the right direction. The fibre may make it to my door in the future, but without the NBN: never ever.

Re:Judgement (2)

AbRASiON (589899) | more than 2 years ago | (#39521165)

Yep, I've already replied so I can't moderate here. Please mod this up, the "wifi will save us" people are embarassing to deal with. It's .... mind boggling how dense those people are.

I'm surprised one of them made it here to slashdot, I'd expect them to be on yahoo answers or something.

Re:Judgement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39523355)

Insults will get you everywhere. Wifi is the only area that needs improvement via the goverment. Wired does not, its cheap enough and will continue to improve in speed.

Look at what benefits society more, not you're torrents.

Re:Judgement (1)

AbRASiON (589899) | more than 2 years ago | (#39529633)

A post from the technically incompetent people, (very technically incompetent infact) take note slashdotters, the commoners have found us.

Also it's bloody YOUR not you're

Re:Judgement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39523221)

Baha.

I love it when they start to swear. And fail to address any point accept to pull something out that they believe is so wrong they can maybe use that to ignore all the rest.

But oh, dear foul mouth, how wrong you are. You're the kind of guy that would of said no way will there be anything more than 56kpbs over copper lines. Giggle.

Yes, it's shared, just like any telecommunication technology shares whatever it's sent over.

However, you might care to remember that technology improves, how more is sent over less, and how, and importantly with wireleess, that even the transportation, the very frequency in which we use to send data, is able to be expanded as we develop things that allow us to (by being more sensitive) tap into frequencies that were not achievable.

Investing in more towers, (smaller cells), and a mesh network that incorporates higher speed shorter range frequencies is a way in which the government can help without even improving technology. It's far less to maintain, and definite social and economic benefits can be had from brining a decent broadband to each persons mobile. Kind of like we had when we went from 56kbps to ADSL and VDSL.

Like I said, fixed lines don't need any more than what they will get with on-going advancement. We should NOT be spending our Bns on this.

I used to share my copper line, we have 28kbps each, within 10 years I had 10Mbit. Isn't technological advancement AMAZING!

Re:Judgement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39524167)

Improving the copper network is a pointless endeavor, it will fail, break and need continual maintenance.
New fibre is going to last a helluva lot longer than the existing copper network.

Problems with wireless that are mostly not solvable:

  Latency: Seriously this needs to be as low as possible for video/voice communications, gaming, basically anything that needs to be as real time as possible.
  Reliability: Dropouts will always happen.
  Susceptible to interference: Environmental, Electrical etc.

People need to use a little imagination as to what fibre will bring:
  Small Businesses will have enough bandwidth to run something close to a commercial grade connection from their own offices, eliminate off site hosting.
  Gaming communities can be run from people's homes, no needs to fork out for a provider.

Wireless is best as a supplementing technology, it shouldn't be the primary tech unless things are too difficult otherwise.
That is exactly what the NBN is about, it is asmart future investment for the age that we live in.
If the coalition gets in next election, I hope they have the brains to see that the NBN was labor's best choice it ever made.
As for the censorship part, it seems to be mostly swept under the rug at this point.

Re:Judgement (1)

shinzawai (964083) | more than 2 years ago | (#39529639)

What do you think your mythical towers are connected by? The rainbow pony express? No, it is called FIBRE. (Yes, I spelt it Fibre).

Re:Judgement (1)

kiddygrinder (605598) | more than 2 years ago | (#39521491)

Suggesting that no-one will ever need 100Mbit at home is so myopic it's like power companies suggesting that you'll only ever need enough power for the fridge and a tv when they were putting in powerlines back in the day.

Re:Judgement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39523623)

No it's not.

It's like power companies suggesting that you don't need PHASE3 to run you computer.

Re:Judgement (-1, Troll)

evanism (600676) | more than 2 years ago | (#39521019)

you sir must be a government shill, a member of the LABOR party (read Communist Unionism here people from other than Aust) or both.

What you describe is the pure evils of socialism and communism. Enforced government mandates run by guaranteed monopoly PLUS a guaranteed method for the government to spy on every packet that traverses the network.

Do us all a favour and teleport back in time the East Germany Stassi or the worst deprivations of Communist Russia. You would fit right in.

Re:Judgement (1)

dean.collins (862044) | more than 2 years ago | (#39523985)

nope some people have a different opinion to you and thinking boadband like roads are a good thing to get laid once and then shared commercially. oh i'm sorry did you fucking drive on your own private road today in capitalist australia no so shut the fuck up.

Re:Judgement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39528331)

> Implying roads and infrastructure would not exist in absence of government.

The reason certain areas can't get broadband is because IT'S NOT WORTH IT! The cost to provide the service is greater than the amount the residents are willing to pay (probably because regulations make it too expensive). So what we have here is the government FORCING people to buy things that they otherwise would not have bought.

The government seizing the means of production is COMMUNISM! get it though your head. Only the market can allocate resources efficiently. Bureaucrats have no clue.

Re:Judgement (1)

dean.collins (862044) | more than 2 years ago | (#39523967)

i agree, you cant convince some people though so lets jsut wait for 3 years once stage 1 is deployed and then ask them to take their foot out of their respective mouths.

Re:Judgement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39522577)

Please, any non-Aussies reading this story, do not judge our nation on our Prime Minister's elocution in that video. We know. We're sorry.

I'm a non-Aussie. I judge you folks to be AWESOME based on the few of you I've met while studying abroad in Japan. (Not to mention they didn't judge me for what George W. Bush has wrought upon the world, which I'm thankful for.)

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As an Australian (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39520677)

The internet is good enough for almost all uses... yes Romania has faster internet since they had no technology for most of the 20th century, but even with internet twice as fast and cheap as ours Romania is a swamp of teenage prostitutes on the street and incomprehensibly ugly Dacia antiques 30 years old with a shape that would make Frank Lloyd Wright walk out of his grave and vomit.

When you consider the extreme cost, I seriously wish this money could be given to the CSIRO instead, something that could really change the world like technology advances making solar energy more viable.

Up to 1Gbps is actually 100Mbps only (4, Informative)

bertok (226922) | more than 2 years ago | (#39520729)

The summary is wrong (isn't it always) -- essentially nobody will be getting 1Gbps on the NBN, at least not for the first decade or so. The fibres are rated at 2.5Gbps downstream, but they're split, so each house will be getting 100Mbps maximum. I certainly haven't heard of any ISPs offering more than 100Mbps, so even if the fibre can physically transmit more than that, you can't buy it as a service.

Apartment complexes can receive a dedicated fibre with more than 100Mbps capacity, but that's till split up between the apartments, the difference is that the splitter is on the premises. I think this caused a lot of confusion, because some of the logical diagrams showed a 1 Gbps fibre going to a building, and journalists didn't notice that only 100Mbps connections were going to each apartment.

One interesting issue with the NBN is that while we're going to have plenty of bandwidth, our latency to most services is still terrible. America is 200ms away, and there's not a lot in the English-speaking corner of the Internet that's closer. I hope Google, Amazon, and Microsoft start building data centres locally, or the upgrade will be largely unnoticeable for anything other than video streaming.

Re:Up to 1Gbps is actually 100Mbps only (1)

ColaMan (37550) | more than 2 years ago | (#39520929)

The fibres are rated at 2.5Gbps downstream, but they're split,

Split where? The NBN fibres in my town here in Tassie end up in your house. There's a 4-port distributor on the power pole outside, and when a person connects a fibre goes from there to the NTD. The distributor isn't powered, it's just a weatherproof connector.

They do get aggregated further upstream somewhere, so I guess there could eventually be some congestion there.

Re:Up to 1Gbps is actually 100Mbps only (1)

complete loony (663508) | more than 2 years ago | (#39521117)

The only reason ISP's wont offer more than 100Mbps, is because they will have to fork over $4,000 per month, per peering point just to supply enough peak bandwidth for one customer to get 100Mbps while other people are also using their connections. To provide just 1Gbps at one peering point, will cost an ISP $40,000 per month. Even if you only have one customer who barely uses their connection.

Re:Up to 1Gbps is actually 100Mbps only (2)

seb42 (920797) | more than 2 years ago | (#39521283)

"essentially nobody will be getting 1Gbps on the NBN" I think they offer a business service 1000M down 400M up service, you must just need your own fibre that is not shared. A home user service is up to 100M down 40M up.

Re:Up to 1Gbps is actually 100Mbps only (1)

citizenr (871508) | more than 2 years ago | (#39521947)

One interesting issue with the NBN is that while we're going to have plenty of bandwidth, our latency to most services is still terrible. America is 200ms away, and there's not a lot in the English-speaking corner of the Internet that's closer. I hope Google, Amazon, and Microsoft start building data centres locally, or the upgrade will be largely unnoticeable for anything other than video streaming.

na, the most interesting issue with it is download caps. Download caps on ALL the traffic. It would make mild sense to do download caps on traffic that crosses undersea cables, but all the traffic? Sounds like you are getting screwed.

Re:Up to 1Gbps is actually 100Mbps only (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39522039)

I certainly haven't heard of any ISPs offering more than 100Mbps, so even if the fibre can physically transmit more than that, you can't buy it as a service.

Dutch provider KPN offers up to 500MB/s
http://www.kpn.com/glasvezel/glasvezel-internet.htm (dutch)

Re:Up to 1Gbps is actually 100Mbps only (-1, Troll)

GaryOlson (737642) | more than 2 years ago | (#39523829)

If this is how you expect the Internet to built out in Oz, you will never have a useful, effective, dynamic Internet. "Won't the Big US Monopolies please come and build an Internet for us because we can't build our own!" Stop chasing joeys around the Outback and put some effort into creating your own large scale data companies. Slacker

Re:Up to 1Gbps is actually 100Mbps only (1)

Aus Mr Fusion (1599047) | more than 2 years ago | (#39523893)

One interesting issue with the NBN is that while we're going to have plenty of bandwidth, our latency to most services is still terrible. America is 200ms away, and there's not a lot in the English-speaking corner of the Internet that's closer. I hope Google, Amazon, and Microsoft start building data centres locally, or the upgrade will be largely unnoticeable for anything other than video streaming.

I see this as a positive for local industry. Service providers will be able to offer products locally that give a better user experience than those hosted on the other side of the world (moving us further towards a knowledge based/service provider economy etc).

Not everything important on the internet (to many Australians) is hosted in the US!

Re:Up to 1Gbps is actually 100Mbps only (1)

shinzawai (964083) | more than 2 years ago | (#39529737)

Umm...Google have one in Sydney. Everyone uses Akamai (or other CDN) and there are heaps of local caches. I have one in my ISP.

NBNCo already announced 1Gbps (1)

Namarrgon (105036) | more than 2 years ago | (#39530277)

They said it would be offered on application. It's not a standard consumer plan, that's all. Dedicated fibre links are available too. And the fibre is "rated" for far higher than 2Gbps - it's capable of terabits/second. There's already a planned upgrade path to 40Gbps.

Latency is an issue, but caching can help many things, and fibre shaves off 20-40ms compared to ADSL.

In this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39520735)

In this comment section, clueless liberals bag out the NBN because it costs a lot of money.
I'd bloody hope so! we're investing in the future here and it's time we had a better telecommunications infrastructure.
Not to mention the price gouging from Telstra and their less than exemplary quality of service, where phonelines disconnect when it rains.

Re:In this (2)

blackpaw (240313) | more than 2 years ago | (#39522241)

where phonelines disconnect when it rains.

Just in case people think the OP is joking - they arent. Happens to me regularlly and I live close to the Brrisbane CBD

strewth, Bruce! (1, Funny)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 2 years ago | (#39520789)

I got a first post, mate - chuck me a tinny!

Re:strewth, Bruce! (1, Insightful)

oztiks (921504) | more than 2 years ago | (#39521061)

No .... Uhhhh .... No ..... If you're going to mock Aussie slang atleast slag it off properly.

Tinny? You mean stubbie ..

Re:strewth, Bruce! (1)

SleazyRidr (1563649) | more than 2 years ago | (#39523513)

A tinny is a can and a stubby is a bottle. You put them both into a stubby holder though...

Re:strewth, Bruce! (1)

shinzawai (964083) | more than 2 years ago | (#39530131)

A tinnie is also a small boat with an outboard motor...something to drive whilst you're sinking a few stubbies. Who drinks beer out of cans?....Neanderthal!

It is a 4.5 year plan (1)

mathew42 (2475458) | more than 2 years ago | (#39520819)

For some suburbs named in the plan (i.e. Weston, ACT) detailed planning doesn't commence until September 2015 and homes in the suburb cannot expect to actually have an active connection until September 2016. The roll out has been poorly planned in that it overbuilds many suburbs where coaxial cable running at 100Mbps is available now, while ignoring areas where ADSL is unavailable and people are relying on 3G wireless. Take up rates in the small number of suburbs where the NBN has been built of about 14%. The reported highest rate is 29% for for Willunga, SA and second is Kiama, NSW at 26%. The government has promoted 1000/400Mbps connections, but NBNCo are predicting in the Corporate Plan (page 118) that only 1% will connect at that speed in 2026. Unfortunately 50% are predicted to connect to the network at 12/1Mbps, even when it costs only $5 a month for 25/5Mbps. In Australia we have quotas, which start at 10GB and reaching 1TB on current NBNCo plans. Unlike countries where speed is used to limit connections, it would cost NBNCo zero to provide the full speed to all customers and deliver a return from people using more data. RSPs (aka ISPs) will be charged $20Mbps for CVC to connect to the network. The other challenge is that the mobile network operators are progressively rolling out 4G services which reviews have stated are providing 30/10Mbps in many locations. This network will be a direct competitor for low usage customers (e.g. 50% connecting at 12/1Mbps who won't pay $5 extra for 25/5Mbps). Unfortunately it appears that technically we are building a first class network, while political decisions mean that speeds and actual usage will be third class.

How Dare those Liberal Communists!!! (4, Insightful)

tgatliff (311583) | more than 2 years ago | (#39520919)

Everyone knows that the best way to have the fastest wireless and internet service is to have a free market system. I mean, my free market AT&T service is spectacular giving me at least 2kbps (at least when there is no one else on the network), which is perfect for... well.. Wireless is VERY expensive to do and people in the US could never afford 1000M anyway. Also, the US is WAY to large for 1000M wireless internet... Oh, and having 1000M wireless internet wouldn't be safe anyway because of... terrorists..

The point is everyone knows that a free market system where private enterprise blazes the way is always the best path to prosperity. I mean its like American and stuff...

(Brought to you by the American Telecom Industry)

Re:How Dare those Liberal Communists!!! (1)

rjames13 (1178191) | more than 2 years ago | (#39522207)

But the Liberals are not Communists they are conservatives. :)

Re:How Dare those Liberal Communists!!! (1)

Tuan121 (1715852) | more than 2 years ago | (#39522403)

I'm not sure why you are trying to use AT&T cellular as a guage for the US internet? From the article

About 4 per cent of premises will receive broadband through fixed wireless networks

A very low percentage of this plan has anythiing to do with wireless. The rest is wired, so your silly "2kbps from AT&T" comment is both ridiculous and irrelevant.

Now from someone else's comment

Most of the country has slow, horrifically overpriced ADSL, which is patchy even in some urban areas. The Telcos were not and are not doing anything about it. The government stepping in is exactly what was needed.

So the private industry failed them, thus the government stepped in. Now onto the US.. how exactly has the private industries failed to provide fast & affordable internet? Where is only "slow, horrifically overpriced ADSL" available?

You attempting to twist this into a free market vs socialism rant is simply laughable.

Re:How Dare those Liberal Communists!!! (1)

tgatliff (311583) | more than 2 years ago | (#39523065)

Probably because I have been having issues with service lately and I was really annoyed that their network just dropped a very important customers call?? There is little doubt in my mind that AT&T is one seriously messed up company (and network).

It was not my intent of putting a free market vs. socialism. Both have their key advantages as well as key disadvatages. The socialism disadvantages are obvious simply looking at government. However, an great example of a bad free market system (in my opinion) is the pharmaceutical industry. It is well known that they intentional pick inferior drugs to superior ones simply because:

A) One you take daily (better profit potential)
B) Patent is running out so they new a new drug.... (Exclusivity Increased profit)

In short, there are some industries that do best in a socialism model (or highly regulated), and others that do not...

Re:How Dare those Liberal Communists!!! (1)

AF_Cheddar_Head (1186601) | more than 2 years ago | (#39527397)

"So the private industry failed them, thus the government stepped in. Now onto the US.. how exactly has the private industries failed to provide fast & affordable internet? Where is only "slow, horrifically overpriced ADSL" available?"

Easy, try moving outside of a city. I live 15 miles east of Colorado Springs and my only choice is ADSL resold by the local phone company, 6up 1down for the low, low price of $59.99 per month. Yeah I know I choose to live in the country but you asked where is only slow, horrifically overpriced ADSL available and I told you.

PS: This applies to a large part of the United States where cable is not available. Move outside the city before you make such stupid statements.

PSS: I lived in outback Australia (Woomera) for 5 years and the telecommunications availability in the two countries is very similar pretty good in the city piss poor everywhere else.

Re:How Dare those Liberal Communists!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39527983)

oddly enough, even before the first nbn connection was laid, we could already get 100M connections from the main isp's
it comes at a premium and speeds aren't guaranteed (as if you'll hit 100M to the UK)
the only problem was you had to be on the cable network rather than adsl
and the cable network reach isn't as wide as the phone network
so technically the free market beat out the government funded one

in order for the nbn to to have a chance to be profitable though, both cable isps (yes, there's only 2) have to close down cable access
or moreover, the major players have to shutdown their own networks so the nbn is the only wired network
what this means is no further expansion of the existing networks
given the very low reach for the next 3 years, it means we can't have nice things for some time
overall any further progress slowed when the nbn was announced
both major cable isps provided 100M services
but now, why roll out better tech when the government is going to flip the bill?
especially when you're getting paid not to expand and roll out better tech

telstra is especially happy with the deal
the government is paying they several thousand dollars to switch over each of telstra's adsl subscribers
as a result, telstra have been hooking up more and more adsl connections over the last year or two
where there weren't enough ports, telstra put out a toolbox with a mux and hooked people up (damned the connection quality)
i mean if the equipment costs 300,000 to put out, but you're gonna rake in 10x that in a few years, why wouldn't you?
as a result you now have a fuckton of people complaining adsl is shit and connection speeds are horrible
(granted though there were places there had poor connection quality in the first place. it's just worse now)

frankly, fttp will be getting close to pointless by the time it's done
while expensive now, wireless will get cheaper
originally we only had gprs, and since then mobile data has gotten cheaper
by the time this is done (2021) it will be significantly cheaper and widespread
it will also be more convenient as well have portable internet connections

fttp is great for big business, but useless for consumers
way to spend tax dollars.

I've seen governments waste money in worse ways (1)

MunkieLife (898054) | more than 2 years ago | (#39521181)

I don't know why so many Australians are complaining about this network. I've seen many countries waste money in much worse ways. Just look at the USA spending hundreds of billions of dollars for things half the people don't agree with and not batting an eye (wars, military bases, foreign aid, social security). Just a few years ago with this bailout thing, whoops, a few trillion dollars spent in bailouts and QE. Take a look at Indonesia and the Philippines, just a random example, where tons of tax dollars just go to politicians pockets through corruption and ridiculous useless programs.

Adding a high speed network for your country sounds not so bad. Australia's networks suck as it is - expensive, slow and tiny bandwidth caps all over the place. Why not? Now you just need to attract companies like Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Akamai to setup large installations in Australia to make good use of that network!

Re:I've seen governments waste money in worse ways (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39521401)

Basically it's because there's a sizable number of the Australian population that are informed by the Murdoch-ran media (our branch of FAUX News) which attacks this network. The rest I'm sure you can fill it in.

Re:I've seen governments waste money in worse ways (1)

i-reek (1140437) | more than 2 years ago | (#39521409)

I don't know why so many Australians are complaining about this network!

Because it's become an ideological issue. It's a Labor party policy so, ipso facto, rusted on conservatives hate it.

So they sit in waiting for the inevitable cost blowouts, delays, pork-barrelling, and logistic implosions that befall every large infrastructure program and use them to hammer the Labor party over the head with. And the faithful take their cues from that.

Had the conservatives introduced the NBN it would be the other way around.

I predict that once the NBN is completed and its value demonstrated it will become like Medicare - both sides of politics, regardless of ostensible ideology, will regard it as a "good thing". I mean, can you imagine the Coalition ripping out the fibre from people's homes?

3.5 million premises in ~3 years? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39521197)

The plan details 3.5 million premises (30%) across the country to be connected to the NBN by mid-2015.

LOL. Mid-2015 is 3.25 years from now. That's ~1186 days. 3.5 million premises divided by 1186 days is ~2950 premises per day. Is anyone here stupid enough to imagine that they're going to connect nearly 3000 premises per day, every single day, from now until mid-2015?

Oh well, these losers aren't going to be around to find out after 2013, so it's safe for them to make even the most retarded predictions.

Re:3.5 million premises in ~3 years? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39521597)

There will be more than 16,000 people employed to connect houses. That does not include the people setting up the major nodes/backbone.

That is one person connecting one house each week.

I guess you losers just don't get it. It amazes me the number of people who work in the tech industry who do not understand tech growth rates. I mean, you want to vote in a guy who will spend 15 billion to cancel the NBN. Dumbarses.

Re:3.5 million premises in ~3 years? (1)

mathew42 (2475458) | more than 2 years ago | (#39529073)

The actual goal is to ramp up within 2 years to 5,900 premises a day based on 250 working days a year. This equates to 1.5 million premises a year. This is 0.2 million less a year than the HFC rollout in Australia in the 1990s. You can find this information on page 78 of the NBNCo Corporate Plan.

The NBNCo press release [nbnco.com.au] contains some key wording missing from the news article: Construction to be underway or complete in areas containing over 3.5 million homes and businesses in 1500 communities in every state and territory. Underway means that NBNCo have started detailed planning for the area. For some suburbs named in the plan (i.e. Weston, ACT) detailed planning doesn't commence until September 2015 and homes in the suburb cannot expect to actually have an active connection until September 2016. So the actual figure will be significantly less than 3.5 million able to connect in June 2015.

good (-1, Flamebait)

kingrayparts (2607139) | more than 2 years ago | (#39521367)

www.kingraymachine.com

My hometown misses out :( (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39521849)

  I guess I'm not ever retiring to my hometown on the south coast of W.A. - from the planned coverage map it looks like we miss out entirely :(

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