Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

PlayStation 4 'Orbis' Rumors: AMD Hardware, Hostile To Used Games

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the fans-clearly-want-more-broken-games dept.

DRM 371

silentbrad writes "Kotaku reports some 'details' about Sony's next console given to them by a 'reliable source.' They say that the console's codename is Orbis, and it is planned for release by the 2013 holiday season. Developers are reportedly being told to plan for an AMD x64 CPU and AMD Southern Islands GPU. Further on, they mention that there will be no PS3 backwards compatibility and, like rumors about the next Xbox, will have anti-used game DRM. Specifically, 'new games for the system will be available one of two ways, either on a Blu-Ray disc or as a PSN download (yes, even full retail titles). If you buy the disc, it must be locked to a single PSN account. ... If you then decide to trade that disc in, the pre-owned customer picking it up will be limited in what they can do. ... it's believed used games will be limited to a trial mode or some other form of content restriction, with consumers having to pay a fee to unlock/register the full game.'"

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Say it ain't so, Sony! (5, Funny)

crazyjj (2598719) | more than 2 years ago | (#39525807)

If you buy the disc, it must be locked to a single PSN account. ... If you then decide to trade that disc in, the pre-owned customer picking it up will be limited in what they can do

You expect this kind of craven, heavy-handed behavior out of a Samsung or a Panasonic, sure. But Sony?!?!?

But seriously, it's been clear that developers have been asking for this for some time. They already killed the used market for PC's. Now it's console time. Sadly, I suspect MS and Nintendo will follow suit if Sony goes through with it.

Re:Say it ain't so, Sony! (5, Insightful)

mofolotopo (458966) | more than 2 years ago | (#39525883)

Color me unsurprised. And also not buying.

Re:Say it ain't so, Sony! (4, Insightful)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 2 years ago | (#39525981)

I think it was only two weeks ago someone told me consoles have less restrictive DRM than PC's on slashdot. Excuse me while I go chuckle.

This hostility to used games is *exactly* why you don't buy consoles.

Re:Say it ain't so, Sony! (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39526345)

Why, because there's a rumor that the next generation of consoles might have the same restriction that's been standard on PCs for a decade? Seriously, when was the last time you legally bought or sold a used PC game? And now Steam and Origin have closed up the vast majority of those fringe cases, and even the all mighty, for the gamers, indie gem Minecraft is unsellable and untradeable.

Re:Say it ain't so, Sony! (2)

PessimysticRaven (1864010) | more than 2 years ago | (#39525895)

I don't quite understand the surprise. Hasn't it already been mentioned that Sony luvz proprietary-anything? Why should this be any different?

Also, I can't say I'd trust any "reliable anon. source."

Re:Say it ain't so, Sony! (0)

Nyder (754090) | more than 2 years ago | (#39525905)

If you buy the disc, it must be locked to a single PSN account. ... If you then decide to trade that disc in, the pre-owned customer picking it up will be limited in what they can do

You expect this kind of craven, heavy-handed behavior out of a Samsung or a Panasonic, sure. But Sony?!?!?

But seriously, it's been clear that developers have been asking for this for some time. They already killed the used market for PC's. Now it's console time. Sadly, I suspect MS and Nintendo will follow suit if Sony goes through with it.

This is exactly the sort of stuff I expect from Sony. Not sure which reality you've been living in, but in mine, Sony does fucked up shit all the time.

I'm thinking that not being able to play used games like in the past will only push piracy. It might be because people want to try before they pay full price, or because they buy new games using money from selling their old games.

I bet Sony doesn't get a break from piracy like they did with the PS3.

Re:Say it ain't so, Sony! (4, Funny)

Niris (1443675) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526069)

ITT: People who don't grasp sarcasm.

Re:Say it ain't so, Sony! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39525945)

If the ability to play is not severely downgraded, I say bring it on. I will buy a $20 used game any day over the $50 new copy just to play a scenario. If it is severely downgraded, I will stop buying even used games and just stick to old console that I have selling the shiny PS4 on ebay.

Re:Say it ain't so, Sony! (3, Insightful)

Joce640k (829181) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526131)

It won't be. It'll be $20 for SONY ... plus another $20 for the person who originally paid $50 ... that's dangerously close the price of a new copy.

And the original buyer *will* want $20. If he's only getting $5 or $10 for his used games then he'll probably hang onto them instead of selling them to you.

Re:Say it ain't so, Sony! (1)

sarysa (1089739) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526405)

It'll be more downgraded for everyone than people immediately realize. Offline play will be severely affected.

Even if each game only requires online access once, it will be a major inconvenience to users that may not have their device connected all the time for one reason or another. (and I'll bet there are still users out there who keep their consoles offline at all times -- i.e. when young children are the players, or players whom their game console is their sole luxury)

Re:Say it ain't so, Sony! (1)

silentbrad (1488951) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526507)

From the article (and the summary):

it's believed used games will be limited to a trial mode or some other form of content restriction, with consumers having to pay a fee to unlock/register the full game

Re:Say it ain't so, Sony! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39526137)

I disagree that MS and Nintendo will follow suit if Sony goes through with it. If they are smart at all, they will wait and see how it goes for Sony. It's possible that it backfires for Sony and MS highlights a less restrictive DRM as a point of differentiation to attract more gamers and sell more consoles.

Re:Say it ain't so, Sony! (0)

girlintraining (1395911) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526271)

You expect this kind of craven, heavy-handed behavior out of a Samsung or a Panasonic, sure. But Sony?!?!?

Why not? It's not like the consumers are protesting or anything. They'll buy it no matter how restrictive it is because they've become accustomed to it from years of using ipods, windows vista, dvds, etc. There isn't a popular consumer entertainment product out there that doesn't have some form of content restriction.

Don't blame Sony: Blame the idiot consumers... they'd probably buy a three coiled shit if it had 'Sony' emblazoned across the front and some semi-naked girl promoting it. The primary demographic for these games are people who are none of them have ever met or known anyone this happened to.

So strike my last... don't blame Sony. In fact, don't even blame the consumer: Blame yourself, the one person who has the facts, the technical expertise, and the social awareness of the problem. You can't count on the kids these days to know better... fuck, they can't even do basic division anymore their education's been so watered down. From everything I've seen of the teenagers today, their education has been shit, and I don't think that's accidental .. we're moving in a direction of having this country be run by a very few haves, and a whole lot of have-nots. I don't feel this is accidental... DRM is just one front in a very large war against the working class.

Re:Say it ain't so, Sony! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39526301)

Honestly, Steam's low prices are what killed my interest in used PC games.

Re:Say it ain't so, Sony! (5, Insightful)

zarthrag (650912) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526715)

THIS!!!! The DRM steam imposes is okay for several reasons:

1. It's EASY. My games stay updated, without intervention (in contrast to Sony's Playstation Plus - which charges me a fee to NOT sit through updates every time it turn the damn thing on.)

2. It drives prices of PC games DOWN. There's healthy competition here. The console makers seem to be colluding to get $60 per player, no matter what. Hell, both MS and Sony charge money for *demos*, when you think about it

Steam ADDS value, so a purchase feels like a fair exchange, and not a shaft. Others tend to feel like a cash grab coupled with even MORE drm. (That includes Origin!)

Re:Say it ain't so, Sony! (0, Redundant)

girlintraining (1395911) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526319)

You expect this kind of craven, heavy-handed behavior out of a Samsung or a Panasonic, sure. But Sony?!?!?

Why not? It's not like the consumers are protesting or anything. They'll buy it no matter how restrictive it is because they've become accustomed to it from years of using ipods, windows vista, dvds, etc. There isn't a popular consumer entertainment product out there that doesn't have some form of content restriction.

Don't blame Sony: Blame the idiot consumers... they'd probably buy a three coiled shit if it had 'Sony' emblazoned across the front and some semi-naked girl promoting it. The primary demographic for these games are people who are under 25 years old, have a lot of disposable income (teenagers!), and that group doesn't remember a time when DRM wasn't ever-present. Anyone my age (30+) can and does call me when they can't find a torrent or piece of software they want. Anyone under the age of about 25 is afraid the FBI is going to bust down their door and rape them with an anal probe... even though none of them have ever met or known anyone this happened to.

So strike my last... don't blame Sony. In fact, don't even blame the consumer: Blame yourself, the one person who has the facts, the technical expertise, and the social awareness of the problem. You can't count on the kids these days to know better... fuck, they can't even do basic division anymore their education's been so watered down. From everything I've seen of the teenagers today, their education has been shit, and I don't think that's accidental .. we're moving in a direction of having this country be run by a very few haves, and a whole lot of have-nots. I don't feel this is accidental... DRM is just one front in a very large war against the working class.

Footnote: HEY SLASHDOT, using a greater than sign by itself should not mean your html parsing code goes all pac-man on the rest of the comment.

Yep! It's so! ---Sony! (1, Insightful)

jmichaelg (148257) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526379)

You expect this kind of craven, heavy-handed behavior out of a Samsung or a Panasonic, sure. But Sony?!?!?

Why wouldn't you expect this of Sony? Recall that:

  • Sony intentionally shipped a rootkit on their music CDs in 2005.
  • Revoked the ability to boot into Linux after people had purchased the PS3.
  • Sony sued George Hotz for disclosing Sony had messed up their PS3 crypto implementation. Since the cat was out of the bag, the only reason for the suit was to punish Hotz for publishing the truth.
  • Sony supported SOPA.

Don't know how many times you have to see SONY acting in this manner to realize that's the way SONY really is.

Re:Yep! It's so! ---Sony! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39526773)

I am going to open up a sarcasm detector repair shop. I mean, the guy even followed up his sarcasm with "But seriously..."

Re:Say it ain't so, Sony! (1)

Tsingi (870990) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526465)

You're surprised that this is coming from Sony?

Seems like SOP to me.

Re:Say it ain't so, Sony! (1)

HeLLFiRe1151 (743468) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526675)

One of them will back down and use it to their advantage and selling point.

Re:Say it ain't so, Sony! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39526793)

It's actually par for the course with Sony. They love locking people into their stuff... This is just an extension of that penchant for hardware into the software realm

Revolt! (2)

KatchooNJ (173554) | more than 2 years ago | (#39525877)

I bet this won't fly, in the end. This is going to tick off everyone, so I bet it will be so unpopular that they will relent. Gamers will revolt... retailers will revolt. It's a revolution calling! Then again, I could be wrong, of couse. ;-)

Re:Revolt! (4, Insightful)

rwven (663186) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526023)

Not only will retailers revolt...but they're straight go out of business. Gamestop makes the vast majority of its money off of used game sales.

When a large percentage of their income evaporates...it won't bode well for them.

On the flip side, if MS doesn't put this limitation on the next XBOX, sony can probably kiss their console goodbye before it even launches...

Re:Revolt! (1)

rwven (663186) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526043)

s/they're/they'll

Re:Revolt! (1)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526247)

Not only will retailers revolt...but they're straight go out of business. Gamestop makes the vast majority of its money off of used game sales.

When a large percentage of their income evaporates...it won't bode well for them.

If summary is correct, I see an anti-trust suit on the horizon...

Re:Revolt! (2)

rwven (663186) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526353)

I dunno, I think Sony is well within their rights to do this... Not to mention...gamestop COULD technically still re-sell the games, but players would then have to pay more to get them fully working.

If gamestop came up with a standard sales model that would work well, but I can't see them selling hampered games for more than $5 with any success... That means players would only get a dollar or two, if that, for their trades. Players wouldn't even bother trading anything anymore.

The biggest annoyance of the whole thing is that in order to play your game at your friends house, you have to migrate your profile to their "PS4" or just play a broken game...

Re:Revolt! (1)

DarkOx (621550) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526453)

Right what would be interesting is if the retailers took a stand. This certainly will end the business model of all the game specific retailers, who as you say do make most of their money in the used market. The Targets, Best Buys, and Walmarts of the world less so.

What would it do the launch of these next gen consoles from Sony and Microsoft if the likes of Game Stop, Fye, FunCo, etc got together formed a little video game retailers working group and agree to not carry these consoles or their games?

Re:Revolt! (1)

rwven (663186) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526533)

Sounds good in theory, but people would just go to target, walmart, or best buy instead.

Re:Revolt! (3, Insightful)

rwven (663186) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526595)

However, the more likely scenario is just a repeat of what happened with PC games.

You can't really buy PC Games used anymore, so a large portion of the pc game traffic moved on and got consoles instead. When consoles suffer from the same thing, people are going to move on to mobile games on platforms like the iPad, Android, and soon windows 8 tablets.

Sure, you can't resell mobile apps, but it's a rarity when a mobile game costs more than $10. At that price, you can afford to buy 6 games for the same price as 1 console game. Who cares if you can't sell them back. And, for that matter, most mobile games are less than $5, and the majority are stuck squarely at $0.99.

Re:Revolt! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39526705)

Actually it's the other way around. What you'll see is publishers flocking to Sony and the XBox versions of the games would launch months latter, if ever. If you think that Publishers care about the customers ability to play used copies then you really need to look at this all again. People who play used games don't make either Sony or Microsoft money they actually are a drain on the industry. Frankly they'd love if those "customers" went elsewhere or actually spent money on a new game instead.

Re:Revolt! (1)

Khyber (864651) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526767)

"Gamestop makes the vast majority of its money off of used game sales."

You've never been to an actual release night at a Gamestop, have you?

Even in the tiny town I was living in, Red Dead Redemption release night had a line going across half the mall's parking lot. That's not a small lot, either. Easily a thousand people.

Imagine that across the country.

Re:Revolt! (1)

Artraze (600366) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526173)

They're already proven they're willing to do this on a per-game basis, and I haven't seen much revolt from gamers because those games are "must have" or what have you.

As far as retailers are concerned... Well, how much do you think game companies care about them? After all, what percentage of game sales do you thing Walmart and Target (who don't deal in used games) represent? They'd probably be on board with this actually if they care at all. Now, sure, they might be able to offer quite the variety as, say, GameStop, but Amazon certainly can.

Re:Revolt! (1)

Bieeanda (961632) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526331)

The vast majority of gamers won't give a shit. They didn't give a damn about DLC or DRM, and they won't about this.

Boutique retailers dug their grave when they made used games the bulk of their income, and adopted the pre-order scheme to keep their purchases down to absolute minimums. It's been pissing off console developers and game publishers for years, and now that Wal-Mart, other big box stores and even grocery stores stock games in wide variety, they don't have to play nice with outfits that do their damnedest to screw them.

Re:Revolt! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39526691)

The vast majority of gamers won't give a shit.

The vast majority of gamers own their games for less than two weeks, then sell them. They would never buy the games if they couldn't sell them.

The sun rises in the east... (5, Insightful)

Picass0 (147474) | more than 2 years ago | (#39525881)

...Sony cooks up another draconian DRM scheme....

Another brilliant example of not understanding your audience. Used games are part of the lifeblood of the hobby. Make me pay full retail for every game and I will skip the platform.

Re:The sun rises in the east... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39526145)

remember the only reson someone cracked the sony was they took out other o.s. if this turns out to be true that you cant even used a used game then I am willing to bet myleft nut this shit will be crack within 24/hrs

so good idea sony fuck with used games we will rip you off faster then you can blink

-Anonymous (lets kick it~!)

"Reliable source?" (5, Insightful)

AuralityKev (1356747) | more than 2 years ago | (#39525887)

Um... Yeah, and this far out in the PS3 dev cycle we thought we'd be stuck with those horrible boomerang controllers too. So I'll take it with a grain of anti-Sony-bias salt. Not that I'd put it past them, just that it's too early to start shitting myself with worry.

Re:"Reliable source?" (1)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526201)

Um... Yeah, and this far out in the PS3 dev cycle we thought we'd be stuck with those horrible boomerang controllers too.

It's not like their controllers were EVER any good...

Re:"Reliable source?" (2)

Dyinobal (1427207) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526355)

I'm sorry but the original dual shock controllers were awesome. I don't even own a PS1 or PS2 any more but I have an adapter to use a Dualshock controller for my PC, I've yet to find a controller I enjoy as much.

Re:"Reliable source?" (1)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526735)

Personally, I find the Dualshlock almost unbearable. The whole shape of it is bad, the split d-pad is lame, but the analog sticks are the worst: who the fuck thought it was a good idea to put them near the center of the damn thing? It makes you stretch your thumbs to an unnatural position. No matter how much I try to use that thing, it never feels right.

Re:"Reliable source?" (3, Insightful)

Mordermi (2432580) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526305)

Agreed. EVERYTHING in this article is very subject to change. No point in getting upset this early.

Re:"Reliable source?" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39526721)

Actually, this is not true. It's people getting upset that can possibly force change. See DICE/BF3...

Eh... (1)

webmech (1994100) | more than 2 years ago | (#39525913)

Good thing i stopped buying Sony crud a long time ago. If MS follow's suit, I guess I'll skip them as well.

no used games, no sale (3, Interesting)

alen (225700) | more than 2 years ago | (#39525919)

what exactly is going to be so cool about this console except better graphics?

$60 games with no resale means i buy one or two awesome games per year

i mostly game on my x-box and use the PS3 for movies and netflix. the xbox has enough $20 GOTY editions of good games that i have years left to play them and no need to buy any of the new systems for a long time.

my dream system for next gen is x-box with blu ray and backwards compatibility. i'll buy it even if the new next gen games are locked down since i'll play the old and use it as a blu ray player after dumping my current x-box and PS3

Re:no used games, no sale (5, Insightful)

cob666 (656740) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526317)

$60 games with no resale means i buy one or two awesome games per year

Seems that that many manufacturers and game studios fail to grasp this concept. Many buyers of new titles only pay top dollar for the game because of the resale value. I'm sure that no secondary market will hurt the sales of new games, the game studios will of course claim the decline in numbers is due to piracy.

Re:no used games, no sale (2)

jmDev (2607337) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526713)

If they reduced the cost to $40 a game if we all had to buy it brand new, I could see it working.. But they will expect the $60 they are getting now with no option of resale. They're just getting greedy.

Only a matter of time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39525931)

The next gen consoles will be the last with a disc drive. You can't trade-in a download. Time to short GME!

Mo Way (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39525935)

GameStop and other stores would refuse to carry their system.

Re:Mo Way (1)

alen (225700) | more than 2 years ago | (#39525983)

i bet best buy would devote less floor space at the minimum as well. they sell used games and no physical disks means less potential customers in the door

Re:Mo Way (1)

jmDev (2607337) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526425)

Not only that, Sony would be signing their own death warrant. If these main-stream stores think it will hurt them to promote their system, Sony will probably die. They should just stick with the One Time online-key for those that want to buy a used game and use the online part of the game. Make them just buy a key, I agree with that more than anything, other than just keeping the current model.

Cost (5, Insightful)

SJHillman (1966756) | more than 2 years ago | (#39525937)

If they're planning on limiting the resale value of games, then they better plan on lowering the price. I know a lot of people who justified spending $40 or $50 on a game because they knew they could sell it for $20 or $30 in 6 months when they got tired of it, making the end cost a reasonable $20 or so. A move like this might end up hurting sales in spite of forcing more people to buy directly from Sony (or Sony's retailers) because a large segment of the market can no longer use the money from selling older games to buy newer ones.

Big companies seem to think that consumers have an endless supply of money to spend on anything and everything they want... no concept of a consumer has $100 to spend on games this year. If titles are $50 each, then only two get sold. If titles are $50, but they can resell each for $25 then three games get sold.

Re:Cost (1)

feedayeen (1322473) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526139)

If they're planning on limiting the resale value of games, then they better plan on lowering the price. I know a lot of people who justified spending $40 or $50 on a game because they knew they could sell it for $20 or $30 in 6 months when they got tired of it, making the end cost a reasonable $20 or so. A move like this might end up hurting sales in spite of forcing more people to buy directly from Sony (or Sony's retailers) because a large segment of the market can no longer use the money from selling older games to buy newer ones.

Big companies seem to think that consumers have an endless supply of money to spend on anything and everything they want... no concept of a consumer has $100 to spend on games this year. If titles are $50 each, then only two get sold. If titles are $50, but they can resell each for $25 then three games get sold.

I agree with this argument, but playing devils advocate, I can get $100 from a given customer in this year. One way I have to make 3 games, the other, 2. The thing that makes supply and demand curves work is that not everyone has $100 a year for games, my budget may be a few hundred dollars, other people may only save up a few dozen. By putting more variety in the game prices rather than having every one cost the same on release day, the guy with $90 can now buy 2 games rather than 1.

Re:Cost (1)

crypticedge (1335931) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526601)

You miss the part where you actually gain $150 from the first customer. He may only have $100, due to reselling he is making money and spending it back on the game he gains another $50 to buy another game. Meanwhile, the game that he sold is then resold at a discounted rate, and someone who may only be able to buy 1 game a year or less could then buy a game and maybe DLC for it, netting you a higher profit than if you set the games to being first sale only and kill the resale market.

By doing that, you sell 2 games, and no DLC, compared to 3 and DLC.

Re:Cost (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39526141)

Also talk about killing your distribution channels. Gamestop makes a *majority* of its money thru used games...

Re:Cost (1)

CyprusBlue113 (1294000) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526279)

Yes and that's all anyone cares about of them. Sony won't need a distribution channel for games when they're avaliable through psn and amazon.com.

Last I checked, walmart still sold the consoles, so no one really needs Gamestop from supply side.

Re:Cost (1)

Moses48 (1849872) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526307)

That's just the point. They see how cutting out the middleman makes them more money.

Re:Cost (1)

Joce640k (829181) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526273)

Big companies seem to think that consumers have an endless supply of money to spend on anything and everything they want... no concept of a consumer has $100 to spend on games this year. If titles are $50 each, then only two get sold. If titles are $50, but they can resell each for $25 then three games get sold.

All they want is that $100. Selling you less games to get it doesn't worry them in the slightest*.

[*] In fact it's better for them - it means they can control the release schedules and screw over the game developers for an even bigger cut. Every console maker knows how Nintendo used to do things and dreams of being able to do the same.

I don't like this trend... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39525969)

Goodbye GameFly I guess... not sure it's in Sony's best interest to kill off an entire market devoted to promoting their gaming systems.... I'll stick with other platforms.

Can't wait! (5, Interesting)

Artraze (600366) | more than 2 years ago | (#39525979)

... until Sony gets hacked, PSN accounts are lost and everyone's games are rendered useless. That lawsuit should be epic.

Re:Can't wait! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39526517)

... until Sony gets hacked, SEN accounts are lost and everyone's games are rendered useless. That lawsuit should be epic.

FTFY

Captcha: goofed. Who is ?

Kill the used game market, help developers (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39525985)

The gamestops of the world are leeches on the game industry, IMO. You save $15 and the industry loses $60. As far as a publisher is concerned, a used sale is as destructive as piracy. If publishers can count on more direct sales for the games they fund, they will be able to make the same bets with less reliance on paid DLC, more money to pay developers, and it'll be easier to take risks with smaller projects. I'm all for it, I think it means sony/ms are taking a PR hit in favor of their developers. For that, I tip my hat.

Re:Kill the used game market, help developers (3, Insightful)

Qzukk (229616) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526185)

If publishers can count on more direct sales

That $10 I don't get anymore for turning in the old games no longer goes towards buying new ones.

Re:Kill the used game market, help developers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39526377)

If publishers can count on more direct sales

That $10 I don't get anymore for turning in the old games no longer goes towards buying new ones.

Exactly what the above poster stated. The money that a lot kids / teens get from selling a game often goes to purchase "NEW" titles. I doubt a long-term forecast on the details of the market was done, or if there was it was in a limited region.

  If the new Nintendo console allows a used market Sony may as well start preparing their coffin Nintendo will be bringing the nails.

Re:Kill the used game market, help developers (1, Funny)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526361)

What you've just said ... is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

- Principal Oblaski, Billy Madison

Re:Kill the used game market, help developers (1)

alen (225700) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526741)

except that development budgets have been OK, MARKETING BUDGETS have sky rocketed

every time activision releases their annual military shooter the marketing budget is hundreds of millions of $$$ even though the engine is like 7 years old

EA/Bioware spent money on sending copies of ME3 into space to float back down along with CGI trailers that never made it back into the game

in some cases the marketing budgets are more than the dev budgets

Sigh... (3, Interesting)

JustAnotherIdiot (1980292) | more than 2 years ago | (#39525997)

If you buy the disc, it must be locked to a single PSN account

no PS3 backwards compatibility

Sony, I really want to enjoy the games you and your partners put out, but if you go through with this? I have two words for you.
Buh-Bye.

(Either that or Yo-Ho, if someone finds a reliable way to pirate games on to the console)

Re:Sigh... (1)

Lithdren (605362) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526309)

Pretty much, I own a PS3, and I got one rather late so it didn't come with PS2 supported games, which I never got around to owning.

So this new system will come out, render all my hardware for the PS3 useless, render all my games unplayable, and wont let me buy games used anymore. Why, excatly, would I buy this thing?

I PC game more than I play around on the PS3, this would just nail the door shut on anything future from myself and my family. Really sorta sad, watching these companies eat themsevles. Lets hope its all lies and slander, but I think we all know better than that.

Re:Sigh... (1)

Mordermi (2432580) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526765)

My guess with the lack of backward compatibility (if it's true) is to save cost so they can sell it for cheaper than $600. With the PS3 they ended up just taking it out and pissing people off because they needed to do something to lower the price since people were complaining about the price.

go4t (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39526005)

Gamefly? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39526027)

I wonder how their DRM would effect sites that rent games like Gamefly?

What could possibly go wrong? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39526041)

What happens to games when the console breaks or Sony decides to "ban" your PSN account?

Not to mention... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39526063)

This would put a serious dent into Gamestop's and similar companies' business. No doubt they make a significant chunk of change from new game, gotta have it now sales. Is Sony prepared to take that on? What about Microsoft and Nintendo?

Per account??? (5, Insightful)

masteva (996554) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526085)

Wow, this will cause an uproar with families I would think!

Example: Buy game for 2+ children, but each child has own account as they don't want to have their saves touched / overwritten. Find out that game can only be used on child(a) account. Child(b) cries foul, wants his own saves and doesn't want to share etc. Fight breaks out as parent can't game to work on child(b) account.

Now I don't think this will be extremely COMMON to be honest, but I could certainly see some backlash from it! I don't like having other people in the house using my account to play games, as I fear that someone would accidentally mess up my saves etc. I'm sure a self entitled child will throw complete fits over it.

Re:Per account??? (1)

XxtraLarGe (551297) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526275)

Me, my wife & my stepson all have separate accounts on our PS3. My stepson & I play most of the same games, my wife & I play Little Big Planet. You have separate accounts so you don't mess up each others save game files. I can definitely say that I will not be buying a PS4 if this turns out to be the case.

Re:Per account??? (3)

preaction (1526109) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526409)

This. I love that if I have a friend over, we can play her Xbox Live games after downloading them to my Xbox. When she logs out, I can no longer play the game, because it's tied to her Xbox AND her account. But, if I go over to her house, I can play her games under my account without logging in (again, tied to her Xbox AND her account).

Used games, not a big deal, I just won't buy AAA-level games.

Re:Per account??? (1)

alen (225700) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526681)

x-box live has a family gold account for $90 a year

ironically lately there are lots of discounted Live Gold cards being sold now, but no discounted family gold cards

Instant Fail (1, Insightful)

fallen1 (230220) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526117)

Please see subject, because you know it's true. As soon as people realize they can't trade-in games, everything is tied to one PSN account, and games still cost $60+ this game console will fly ... right back to Japan.

Same thing with XBOX - if it comes locked down and games tied to a single account and no used game sales then it will be a very expensive paperweight. A dead albatross weighting them down.

Time for a new game company to step up and create something open or ,rather, more open than the "next gen" consoles appear to be.

Rape them (0)

Anomalyst (742352) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526119)

and the horse they rode in on.

Re:Rape them (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39526237)

Come on, have some pity for the horse.

I love that Sony is doing this, (2)

jenningsthecat (1525947) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526181)

because perhaps at some point people will simply stop buying into Sony's 'all your stuff are belong to us' attitude and take their gaming and consumer electronics purchases to other companies. The sooner Sony buries itself in its own bullshit and dies a spectacular death, the better, as far as I'm concerned.

Hmmmm (1)

Valcrus (1242564) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526187)

Guess I will stay console less. I can't afford new games all the time and if I can never buy even used games makes me not even want to consider getting the system. Guess I will stick with playing free play games or buying non DRM games.

Punishing your paying customer is bad business! (2)

beltsbear (2489652) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526213)

It will not work long term. The big game studios and makers have enjoyed some of the largest profits in history without doing this. The pirate 'customer' now will have a better product then the paid customer. Sometimes companies fail to understand the ecosystem effect of having these used sellers out there. The used sellers make a small amount of money, but they bring money back to the consumer who spends it on NEW games and the used seller may bring in a second new customer that eventually buys full priced games as well. Just because a company Gamefly makes a little money, does not mean that the money was sucked out of Sony. With Gamefly (and like companies) in the gaming ecosystem, Sony may make MORE money. Too bad they do not understand this.

Key Word: "Rumors" (1)

Mordermi (2432580) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526245)

All of this is rumored. People shouldn't get upset about it before knowing what the final product will be. Besides.. Let's face it, the majority of the people on /. getting upset about this are the Sony haters that wouldn't have bought the PS4 even if was priced at $50 with $5 games.

I personally am a fan of Sony, and if this is true then I will be quite upset about it. However, I am reasonable enough to realize that rumors don't count for anything. Sony has been very secretive about the "PS4" so it's hard for me to believe that anyone can say with an level of certainty that any of this is true.

Depends on the price (2)

ownagefool (1285232) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526253)

I wouldn't see a problem with it, as long as they adjusted the game prices to reflect they no longer have any resale value. Steam, which is quite popular, has the exact same problem, but is offset by a number of advantages. In the grand scheme of things though, the ability to get PC games a lot cheaper, both using online retailers, and from sales within steam itself is what really made this acceptable. Also, to this date, you can still make Steam accounts per game to work around this issue somewhat, regardless of its against their TOS or not. I can't see Sony handling this in the same way, though.

Sony revisits Betamax in the 21st Century (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39526263)

And this strategy's likely to do as well as the one from the 20th century.

If any Sony Executives Are Reading (4, Interesting)

tmosley (996283) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526295)

If you do this, I won't buy it. Lots of people won't. Stop this stupid BS.

You really need to learn to think in the long term. People will pay a lot for a game when it first comes out, but if you do this DRM crap, you MUST follow through and offer older games at much lower prices, and continue to do so for YEARS if not DECADES. Used game stores do this for you, and allow people with less money to remain rabid fans, and buy your big games when they first come out. If you kill the used game market, you cut those players off. Once they are cut off, they will find other things to do. YOU DO NOT WANT THIS TO HAPPEN.

If you must have DRM, you need to offer games from old systems that run on emulation on your new systems for free or next to nothing, and you need to offer older games at prices that used games get now. You need to keep people playing. If you keep playing these stupid DRM games without offering a substitute, then people will stop playing, and you will go the way of the music industry. Maybe someone like Apple will come along and save your sorry ass, and drag you kicking and screaming into a new, profitable business model, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Xbox 2! (1)

tlhIngan (30335) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526313)

Anyone note the irony to which Sony is going? I mean, they're making the Xbox 2 - still x86 based (like the original Xbox).

Makes me wonder if Bunnie Huang and eveyrone else will dust off all the old Xbox hacks they have and give them a go on the new machine. Don't think Sony can secure it any better than Microsoft could. Heck, it would be amusing to see if Windows 8 would run on it...

Re:Xbox 2! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39526661)

Anyone note the irony to which Sony is going? I mean, they're making the Xbox 2 - still x86 based (like the original Xbox).

I'm trying to interpret what this means, but I really have no idea.

I think this is being blown out of proportion... (1)

Slyfox696 (2432554) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526385)

I don't really have a problem with this. It's not like it's going to affect game prices that much, I can go to a local store and find $20 games that are "brand new". Of course, I may have to wait a year or two, but that doesn't mean I have to buy $60 games. Most of the stores where I live who sell recently released "used" games only take off $5 or MAYBE $10.

So, as someone who doesn't sell games, this doesn't bother me in the least. If you do sell games, then your issue would be with the business who buys them from you, not Sony.

What exactly is the problem here? As long as the games don't feature the "always be connected to the Internet" feature (and I use the word feature loosely), I'm not really concerned with this. While I understand everybody likes the idea of DRM-free media, I also understand the other side of the situation, where businesses are making money on products they didn't put in the time or effort to create, and really have very little in the way of risk. I don't have a big problem with shutting out businesses who take little risk and make good money off the hard work of other people.

Re:I think this is being blown out of proportion.. (1)

canajin56 (660655) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526731)

As long as the games don't feature the "always be connected to the Internet" feature

Yeah, only that's WHY you can't play used games. To boot up any game you need to be signed in to PSN. While this doesn't necessarily imply that you need to stay connected during play, you almost certainly will do. It will, I'm sure, be spun as a feature, since you save "TO THE NANOBUZZWORD CLOUD". So, next time hackers take down PSN, everybody will find their PS4 completely non-functional, except possible as a BluRay+1 player. And they'll probably try to tie THOSE to PSN accounts so you can't trade sell or lend them. (The MPAA wants to outlaw used and borrowed movies just as bad as game developers want to outlaw used and borrowed games, and publishers want to outlaw used and borrowed books).

RUMORS, MORONS. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39526419)

Stop acting as if it is happening, holy hell Slashdot.

You are seriously getting JUST AS BAD as those awful Gawker websites.

Poor ass concept (1)

Tyr07 (2300912) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526489)

Greed - here's what they see

Ah, this person spends 100$ on games per year. These games are used and cost 20$ each.
So clearly they buy five games per year.

BUT, just BUT, if we make it so they have no choice, they will pay 60$ each, getting us an extra 200$.
That way each person gives us 300 in total!

IDJITS, We aren't going to spend more. You're just going to sell less, dumbshit.

Plus we're we'll be less interested overall, and only purchase the big block busters. B- games can kiss their sales goodbye.
Since I would then place less games, I'd be less inclined to purchase a console for a lot of money since the games cost me to much and it's not worth the price to play like two games a year + cost of console.

Buying Software vs. Media (1)

Blindman (36862) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526567)

Sony wants to sell licenses to use software that happens to be distributed via physical media. In contrast, consumers think of themselves as buying physical media containing software. In other words, consumers believe that any license is attached to the media, whereas Sony wants the license to attach to the person. Because there is no physical media associated with digitally distributed content, consumers don't have any trouble with that concept in that arena. However, in the case of physical media, Sony wants to screw consumers on both sides. If you lose the disc, you can't play the game anymore and if you sell the disc to someone else they can't use it.

If Sony wants to switch to solely licensing software, they should stop selling discs. Otherwise, they should anticipate consumer revolt and rightly so.

2+ players per home? (0)

Lord_Alex (710459) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526581)

That's AWESOME!

Now I can buy a singleplayer game once for my own enjoyment, and once again for my wife!

Free market at work (1)

davidwr (791652) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526585)

While I agree this is very un-cool, it is very free-market, PROVIDED that everyone knows what is going on before any money changes hands.

With some exceptions, games are mainly entertainment. If I don't like the terms, I can just not buy.

If I know that I won't be able to sell my used game at the price I would have been without DRM, then the price I'm willing to pay for it drops accordingly.

Shotting themselves in the foot (1)

aoism (996912) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526621)

I got Mass Effect 2 from a friend. I traded him a game for it. I liked the game so much, when Mass Effect 3 came out, I purchased the full retail version because I couldn't wait to play it. If you make your games compelling enough, people will flock to buy them brand new. Take a look at Madden '10. Within 1 month, 1.9 million people bought it brand new (http://kotaku.com/5356888/madden-tops-charts-again-but-sales-plummet-on-ps2-wii). After a 3 months, 3.9 million (http://www.joystiq.com/2009/11/10/madden-10-has-shipped-3-9-million-copies/). I'm sure it has sold more since then .. but come on, a quarter of a billion dollars for a single video game that they just re-used old code and made a few tweaks to. People are still buying brand new games. I am if I like the game enough and typically the only way to get me in to a franchise is by a friend lending me a game, or me buying it used. I don't want to eat up 2 gigs of my 250 gig/mo limit to try some crappy limited demo. This is a great opportunity for a 4th gaming system to come out without DLC and without prohibiting used games. I would buy it in an instant.

Screw me once... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39526623)

Screw me once, Shame on you; Screw me twice, Shame on me...

Good Luck Sony and Microsoft...

I know of thousands of Techs in the industry, that already avoid both of your products specifically.
You must want to add the rest of US consumers to that list :-D
People don't like "Re-Paying" for items that have already been purchased from the store.

This story marks the absolute end of my purchasing ANY products from either Company EVER again.
I refuse to contribute to Greed of this magnitude... Greed is killing the world.

Used games help the game industry! (1)

harl (84412) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526627)

Used games do not hurt the industry. In fact they help the industry!

First off used games have been around since day one. The game industry has only grown since then. Obviously there's no harm. Now onto the specifics.

Used stores are used by two groups, high volume game consumers and people not willing or able to pay full price.

The high volume consumers sell the games. Why do they do this? So they have money to buy more games?

The buyers fall into two basic categories. People who are frugal and people who can't afford $60. Even though these people don't buy games at full price used stores allow them to still be gamers. This allows people to enter the hobby, and thus the market, at an earlier point. They get hooked. Eventually they make more money and don't want to wait for games so they start buying games at full price. Frugal people will never pay full price for games. It's against their nature. Trying to get them to will at worst result in them leaving the market, at best only buying things at discount.

Additionally used game stores put more money into the pockets of game companies. They do this by funneling the money from the used buyers and giving it to the hard core gamers who sell the games to the used stores. You remove this middle man and your hard core gamers have less money to buy games, you lose the customers who can't pay full price due to economics.

All because some exec sees the games in used stores as lost sales, when in fact they all were sales, in order to try and capture a demographic that by it's nature will never be direct customers of theirs.

Here are MULTIPLE IDEAS! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39526695)

1.) Don't Charge 60$ for games...

I would say $20 to $30 for a game is reasonable. I can say its likely more people would buy the game if it was $20 to $30.

2.) Offer Direct Download and Direct Payment To Developers

3.) Don't butcher a game so that you can have an excuse sell DLC content. That turns off many buyers when they see this.

4.) Innovation... Notice the magic hallway is in almost all FPS games today. The magic hallway is basically a linear design which guides the players through a series of straight hall ways all connected while throwing enemies at you. This design is lazy. Developers need to look back at their roots of old games, like Wolfenstin 3d, Doom, Duke Nukem, Blood, Quake, Turok 1 & 2, Zero Tolerance and so on... All of these games were open shooters that required you to run around and collect items, solve puzzles, strategically attack enemies, conserve ammo, no constant regenerating health.

5.) Create a digital economy or digital items that can be purchased. Allow players to trade items and purchase from each other with credits bought from the game company, or earned through the game.

Team Fortress and World of Warcraft are both very successful at digital and hybrid digital economies. There are plenty of ways to hinder cheaters, hackers and keep a secure system running.... better than what we've seen in the past.

move along (1)

Eponymous Hero (2090636) | more than 2 years ago | (#39526737)

no one will buy it and that will be the end of that. nothing to see here.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?