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Tensions Between Archivists and 'Occupy' Protesters Over Preserving the Movement

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the high-water-mark dept.

Education 153

An anonymous reader writes "At one point an NYU librarian literally got into a shouting match with a protester at an Occupy protest, trying to make the case for why a digital record should be kept of photos, videos, audio recordings, posters, and other materials, so future scholars and activists can recount what happened. Academics are taking unusual steps to preserve the protesters' stuff, including 'distributing postcards promoting archiving at protests, developing automated systems to download photos posted online, and asking participants to vote on which images are most important for the historic record.'"

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The anonymity they deserve...? (1, Interesting)

icebike (68054) | more than 2 years ago | (#39564815)

Maybe the protesters were right.

No, they were not (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39564889)

A bunch of poor people protest the fact that the rich have too much by trespassing, loitering, and basically just sitting on their asses for days on end.

Yes, there is terrible injustice in the world. No, this is not an effective way of doing something about it.

Re:The anonymity they deserve...? (1)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565127)

20 years from now the Amercan Fooie Adenoid Hinkel will use the archives to round-up "subversives" like the occupy people. Good thing nobody thought to preserve the Tea Party stuff, otherwise my butt would be in trouble.

Re:The anonymity they deserve...? (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39565255)

Well, at least the Tea party accomplished something.

Re:The anonymity they deserve...? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39565401)

They accomplished a lot of irrational screaming, which is loads better than irrational camping.

Re:The anonymity they deserve...? (-1, Offtopic)

Steauengeglase (512315) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565457)

Before or after monied interests turned it into a tool to purge the GOP of RINOs?

Re:The anonymity they deserve...? (3, Insightful)

Dishevel (1105119) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565883)

The Tea party does not give a shit about republicans.
They want small government, constitutional, conservatives.
Of course the lefties in the group will call small government "anarchy" and constitutional "weird idea people" and conservative "Clinging to God and Guns out of fear".

Re:The anonymity they deserve...? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39566533)

They want small government, constitutional, conservatives.

Except for the ones that want government controlled marriage, government controlled internet, government controlled drugs, etc. etc. etc. And don't forget: Keep government out of my Medicare!

I'd be all for it, except that all they want is for everyone else to be free to do what they approve of.

Re:The anonymity they deserve...? (1)

Steauengeglase (512315) | more than 2 years ago | (#39567713)

The problem there is "conservatives". "True Conservatives", "Real Conservatives", whatever you can call yourself to get the last "Conservative" thrown out. I'm almost surprised that a "Floating Point Conservative" hasn't come down the pike.

Not that the loser minds so much in the long run. He gets thrown out, gets bitter and cynical, waits and goes into lobbying. More money there anyway, gets to hob knob with the same kind of people and instead of begging for money he gets to be the one dangling the carrot. That just props up the notion that anyone going into office is corrupt so another round of "throw the bums out" kicks off and now we all throw our support behind "John Johnson: The Char Array Conservative" in the next primary.

Meanwhile the people who don't want the government in their bedrooms are joining up with the same people who want anyone with an ounce of power to sign purity pledges that they'll never look at porn again and the free market "too big to fail was the death of the republic" conservatives are joining up with the crony "keep the pork coming" capitalists. And in the name of what? Winning.

Is there anything remotely sane about this?

You can say that the Tea Party doesn't give a shit about Republicans, the truth being that the feeling is mutual. They don't give a shit about the Tea Party. Just another wedge group who given a binary option will keep coming back no matter what.

Re:The anonymity they deserve...? (-1, Troll)

Nadaka (224565) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565701)

I don't think committing treason and attempting to destroy America is that great of an accomplishment.

Re:The anonymity they deserve...? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39567085)

Lots of people accomplished something who are now considered anathema to humanity.

Re:The anonymity they deserve...? (1)

buchner.johannes (1139593) | more than 2 years ago | (#39566785)

FTFA

One challenge has been getting protesters to note key details that will help future historians organize the vast trove of digital materials. That information, called metadata, includes things like the date and time that recordings were made, said Mr. Millman. “We asked them to follow naming conventions” for their audio and video files, he said, “but they didn’t follow that.”

lol. Just lol.

In an age when so many people hold recording equipment in their pockets in the form of smartphones, deciding what material to store in archives might be the biggest challenge, Mr. Besser said. One approach he tried recently was asking protesters to vote on which videos or photos should be preserved, and then archivists make the final decision of what to keep from that smaller sample.

“The old way of doing things doesn’t scale,” he said. “We have to find new ways of doing the selection and doing the metadata."

Aside from being puzzled why did they think it would ... haven't they followed the last decade of "Web 2.0", Flickr, Twitter, Facebook, etc.? They oughta ask the guys over at archive.org how to be a librarian in this millenium. Here's my question:

Isn't the metadata about time already stored? Do smartphones add GPS info to the EXIF these days? (I'd like that anyways)

Re:The anonymity they deserve...? (2)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 2 years ago | (#39567675)

Well when we have feds go after librarians for lists of who checked out books, we have constitution free zones [aclu.org] that cover 30% of Americans and NDAA which states they can lock you away with ZERO trial if they stick the right label on you? I'm sorry but this librarian is hopelessly naive if she thinks all this wouldn't end up on someone's list somewhere. Remember it is NOT paranoia if they really are out to get you and everything we have seen from PATRIOT on up would bear out the assumption that if you don't get in line and wave the flag like a good drone you can end up on somebody's list.

I'm just glad my grandfather and his brothers who fought the Nazis in WWII aren't here to see this crap, hell you could probably power the entire southern USA by wrapping them in copper as i'm sure they are spinning like tops in their graves.

Lol (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39564845)

A bunch of leftists create a movement using the tried and tested method of saying "whatever your cause, you are in some way part of our movement" (unless you are Ron Paul).

They deserve to be inundated with every boring and irrelevant group that wants their turn in the spotlight.

Re:Lol (4, Interesting)

bonch (38532) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565227)

You're trolling, but there is truth to the point that many of the people at the protests didn't even know why they were there. Literally, when asked on camera, they couldn't give an answer. They just wanted to be part of an anti-authority movement. It ended up becoming another generic anti-capitalism movement, like what the Iraq War protests became after a few days. A certain element was defecating on police cars, committing sexual assault, and littering parks with tons of garbage.

It's so much easier to blend into a crowd and yell with them at the top of your lungs to make yourself feel better about a general anger you have toward society. It's so much harder to actually effect change by contacting politicians, convincing the public, studying the law, and generally having an impact on the legislative process so that something actually comes out of any of it.

It's one of the reasons I'm irritated by anyone with a bullhorn, even when they say things I would normally agree with. It comes off like a pushy way for them to vent. They're aware of the image of themselves as a protestor with a bullhorn, and they get hooked on that image. Then it's over, and they go back to the office job they were trying to get away from in the first place.

Actually change something--then I'll be impressed!

Re:Lol (4, Insightful)

shiftless (410350) | more than 2 years ago | (#39567283)

You're trolling, but there is truth to the point that many of the people at the protests didn't even know why they were there.

Does that make their concerns any less valid?

It's so much harder to actually effect change by contacting politicians, convincing the public, studying the law, and generally having an impact on the legislative process so that something actually comes out of any of it.

Exactly. Especially when you don't even know exactly why you're so pissed off at society. Maybe you don't realize it's because you didn't like that cop's thuggish attitude the other day when he pulled you over for "weaving across lanes" and then pressured you into a drug search. Maybe subconsciously your mind is still pissed off from when the TSA hassled you at the airport. Maybe those taxes, and the 10x as many hidden taxes disguised as fees, charges, and a hundred other words are really fucking dragging you down. Maybe you don't appreciate the child services people harassing your neighbors because the dad got put in jail for possessing three marijuana plants.

Maybe it's all that and more. Not all of us are fucking scholars enough to understand exactly why we're pissed. Doesn't mean the anger isn't real, and doesn't mean it's just going to magically go away if we wish hard enough. If the same tyranny and oppressive bullshit remains in place, then the anger will continue to build, until it can't build any more. It's that simple. You don't want to be there when it explodes.

Re:Lol (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39568347)

It sounds like you need to masterbate more.

Re:Lol (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39568439)

Could we please have JUST ONE DISCUSSION on slashdot that doesn't devolve into potheads clamoring for their sacred weed?

We get it, you are addicted to drugs and have to get high to escape your mundane or painful reality. Great. Stop talking about it. Nobody else cares.

This discussion is about the anarchists fucking up the Occupy movement, and thinking smashing storefront windows and terrorizing people is a worthwhile pastime. It has nothing to do with potheads who need to get high to function.

Re:Lol (2)

morari (1080535) | more than 2 years ago | (#39567771)

It's so much harder to actually effect change by contacting politicians, convincing the public, studying the law, and generally having an impact on the legislative process so that something actually comes out of any of it.

Except that nothing would come of that either. You can't change an inherently corrupt system by playing within the rules it has established and currently controls.

Re:Lol (1)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565579)

Look man, they were the 0.0001%. They were trying to get in another 98.9999% in order to gain legitimacy, but most of those either had jobs or were out trying to find a job. It's no wonder tried to get everybody in on the non-action.

Preserve the movement? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39564849)

How about they save a few used condoms, boxes of human excrement, used needles, and unemployment check stubs so that future generations can view in awe and wonder how so many lowlife slackers ever found the ambition to gather in one place at one time...

Get that camera out of here! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39564863)

"We're busy taking drugs and rapin'." And that wasn't a cop quote.

Golly! (5, Funny)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | more than 2 years ago | (#39564869)

I thought people were afraid of being recognized by police using the archives.

Turns out they're arguing over whether to call themselves the Judean People's Front or the People's Front of Judea.

Re:Golly! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39564909)

I thought they were the Popular Front.

Re:Golly! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39565019)

No. We were the Front of the Popular. We hate the Popular Front even more than Wall St.

Re:Golly! (3, Insightful)

Master Moose (1243274) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565185)

Splitters!

Re:Golly! (4, Insightful)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565057)

"Ok. Aside from our iPhones, iPads, Androids, YouTube, high-speed wireless to watch YouTube, light, cheap aluminum for our tent poles and backpacks, MRI machines for our broken noses, and worldwide jet travel that supplied how to cook mutter paneer and sushi on the same Sterno..."

"And the Sterno!"

""And the Sterno. Aside from that, what has capitalism done for us?"

Re:Golly! (1)

Freddybear (1805256) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565145)

Wait a minute, you don't cook sushi! Well, except for the rice, I guess. And the tea. And the nice warm jug of sake.
Yay for Sterno!

Re:Golly! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39565321)

You don't cook all sushi. But you do cook some of it. And no, I don't mean the rice. Expand your horizons, try some eel sushi.

Re:Golly! (2)

blueg3 (192743) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565831)

Whether something is sushi is orthogonal to whether the topping on the rice is cooked. The term describes the rice. (Hence, sashimi is not sushi.) The great majority of fish sushi is not cooked. Vegetable sushi varies. Egg (tamago) and eel (unagi) are generally cooked.

Re:Golly! (1)

gstrickler (920733) | more than 2 years ago | (#39566771)

And I prefer cold sake, you insensitive clod. It's generally better quality and better tasting.

Re:Golly! (3, Insightful)

Samantha Wright (1324923) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565157)

"Brought peace!" [demon.co.uk]

...wait. Shit.

Re:Golly! (1)

swalve (1980968) | more than 2 years ago | (#39566161)

Why should they be afraid of being recognized?

Re:Golly! (1)

godel_56 (1287256) | more than 2 years ago | (#39566639)

Why should they be afraid of being recognized?

Maybe this is a reason.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/23/2896525/new-surveillance-system-compare-your-face-against-36-million-others-in-one-second#

Re:Golly! (1)

swalve (1980968) | more than 2 years ago | (#39566887)

That's a tool by which they might be recognized. But why should they be afraid?

Seriously? (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39564873)

How much future scholarship can you get out of a bunch of whiny losers looking for handouts?

Achievement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39564893)

What was achieved by the Occupy protests?

What historical significance do they have?

Re:Achievement (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39564955)

Perhaps none that we can see today, but I can imagine why there's such a push to archive absolutely everything that happened with these protests.

Maybe I'm being a bit too hopeful, but some time decades in the future, perhaps these protests will be seen as 'what got the ball rolling' to vast, sweeping changes.

You never know what the future holds, but I for one hope that these protest started something bigger than they could ever have imagined. It just takes a while for that snowball to grow at first.

And IF those protests were indeed the start of eventual mass changes... would it not be beneficial to have documented as much as we can on them?

Re:Achievement (-1, Troll)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565031)

In the future they wont even be a foot note, just a bunch of spoiled brats with no goals or directions running around creating havoc and tearing stuff up.

They*could* have accomplished something if they had actual goals, but in the end it was just a short lived distraction from other more pressing matters.

Re:Achievement (2, Insightful)

Khyber (864651) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565103)

"In the future they wont even be a foot note, just a bunch of spoiled brats with no goals or directions running around creating havoc and tearing stuff up."

sounds like our current government.

Re:Achievement (2)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565357)

True, but the administration is doing it at a much larger scale, and will be part of future history books.

Re:Achievement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39566591)

"True, but the administration is doing it at a much larger scale, and will be part of future history books."

Yes, indeed, it will be part of the history books.

It will become known as the government which caused the downfall of the United States.

Hegemony or survival, you can't have both, pick one, and pick quickly, because time is
running out.

Re:Achievement (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39565535)

Can there ever be a better illustration of how Slashdot is populated by moron leftists than the fact that any comment even mildly critical of the OWS "movement" is modded into oblivion?

OWS served as an illustration to tens of millions of America children of what not to do and how not to behave. I drove by the Austin OWS camp. My son looked at it and without any prompting said, "we read about these people in school today. They look as dumb as they sounded."

Re:Achievement (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39565047)

Hopeful? Uh, no...you're not being hopeful. You're being retarded.

Re:Achievement (1)

Attila Dimedici (1036002) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565107)

Even if you are right, the Occupy protests will only represent the follow on to the Tea Party protests. Personally, I believe that the purpose of the Occupy protests is to drain some of the anger and frustration so that it does not become harnessed by the Tea Party movement to accomplish actual change.

Yes, that was called the "Tea Party" (3, Insightful)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565211)

but some time decades in the future, perhaps these protests will be seen as 'what got the ball rolling' to vast, sweeping changes.

What you are thinking of there is called the "Tea Party".

The funny thing is that mostly the two groups had the same complaints (the Tea Party dislikes big banks just as much as Occupy folk). Only instead of camping illegally The Tea Party stayed outside for just a few days each month to show people they existed, and then went back inside - to occupy the only thing that REALLY can have an impact.

The primary system.

The Tea Party has been going through and cleaning out (to the degree they can) the Republican system, starting at the lowest levels. It will take time but over time the Republican party will become much more libertarian and less big government as a result. The Tea Party already had substantial impact in the last elections, especially in primaries, and frames the debate even today.

All of that, without people getting arrested, or breaking laws.

That's why the occupy movement doesn't really matter, it's all a stage show at this point to prop up what already exists, not to really change anything. It's not directing any energy at anything that can actually make change occur.

They could have done the same things for the Democrats that the Tea Party has done for the Republicans but with no real goals defined and a basically crazy unwillingness to accept that leaders can make things happen, Occupy just drifts along now to be used by whomever wishes to do so.

Re:Yes, that was called the "Tea Party" (1)

crabboy.com (771982) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565285)

I'd mod you up, if I could.

Re:Yes, that was called the "Tea Party" (1)

sdguero (1112795) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565633)

Isn't there a fundamental difference, i.e. occupy sees more government as the answer where the tea party sees government as a contributing factor to the Wall Street/economy debacles?

Personally I lean more towards blaming government for enabling Wall Street to get where it is today with bailouts and the Fed (I'm probably more inline with the standard tea party ideals than what some of the occupy people were saying).

To me, occupy was more of a media stunt to grab ratings rather than a history changing movement. Much like the current Trayvon Martin race card the media has been pandering for the last month or so. Those whores will play it up as much as possible until something more exciting comes along to jam into our idiot boxes. Race relations, justice, and the future be damned.

Re:Yes, that was called the "Tea Party" (1)

swalve (1980968) | more than 2 years ago | (#39566209)

Unfortunately, your lefty activist types believe that "raising awareness" is a goal in and of itself. Problem -> awareness -> ??? -> problem solves itself.

And the Tea Party likely does want less government. For other people. They will happily keep what they use and probably ask for more, but discard what "the others" use. The OWS people, for all their asininity, are just asking for the government to do what they said they would do, IE, regulate stuff.

Re:Yes, that was called the "Tea Party" (1)

sdguero (1112795) | more than 2 years ago | (#39566575)

Hasn't the government demonstrated time and again that it is incapable of regulating the financial markets? Providing a free money printing machine when the banks screw up (in the name of the public good... Puh-leese) is enabling, not regulating.

Re:Yes, that was called the "Tea Party" (3, Insightful)

Microlith (54737) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565773)

The Tea Party has been going through and cleaning out (to the degree they can) the Republican system, starting at the lowest levels. It will take time but over time the Republican party will become much more libertarian and less big government as a result. The Tea Party already had substantial impact in the last elections, especially in primaries, and frames the debate even today.

Yup, they did. They gave us Eric Cantor and all the uncompromising, "our way or the highway" Republicans who refuse to negotiate and were willing to run this country off a cliff for the sake of ramming bad policy through. No real plans to solve the problem, just cutting taxes more and more and ensuring any and all social safety nets are burned to the ground.

Then they gave us all the fundie legislators and men like Santorum, who insist on waging a misogynistic war in the name of "social conservativism" while solving exactly zero problems.

Re:Yes, that was called the "Tea Party" (3, Insightful)

sycodon (149926) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565991)

I've been hearing people bitch about "negotiating" and compromise for decades. Turns out, their version of compromise is when you agree with them.

Re:Yes, that was called the "Tea Party" (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39566399)

Santorum? He was out of office before the Tea Party ever existed. Maybe you should look at what the true Tea Party stood for instead of just mindlessly believing what their enemies say. The Tea Party was about fiscal issues, nothing more.

Re:Yes, that was called the "Tea Party" (1, Troll)

Microlith (54737) | more than 2 years ago | (#39566501)

Santorum? He was out of office before the Tea Party ever existed.

But now he's running for President. And before him there was Bachmann, who hadn't a clue in her head.

Maybe you should look at what the true Tea Party stood for instead of just mindlessly believing what their enemies say. The Tea Party was about fiscal issues, nothing more.

No they weren't. They certainly weren't for sane fiscal issues, preferring to scream about taxes in a way that was only useful to the richest and advocating only tax cuts while completely not putting forward any solutions to the debt issue. And the social conservatives came along for the ride, getting their regressive idiots into office all over the country.

Re:Yes, that was called the "Tea Party" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39567053)

Dude, give it up, the AC just smoked your ass and utterly demolished you.

The fact that Santorum is running for president is irrelevant and meaningless. He's not a Tea party candidate, and is support is coming from them.

Re:Yes, that was called the "Tea Party" (0)

shiftless (410350) | more than 2 years ago | (#39567381)

The Tea Party has been going through and cleaning out (to the degree they can) the Republican system, starting at the lowest levels. It will take time but over time the Republican party will become much more libertarian and less big government as a result. The Tea Party already had substantial impact in the last elections, especially in primaries, and frames the debate even today.

Back then, the country could afford another four years of calm, measured action. Today it absolutely cannot.

All of that, without people getting arrested, or breaking laws.

Don't break your hand patting yourself on the back. There's much more to this movement than just you and your ideas, you know. I commit felonies daily, on purpose. Big fucking deal, when the law is immoral bullshit not worthy of a free country.

Re:Achievement (1)

colin_faber (1083673) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565179)

Proving that you can crap on cop cars and make the paper's front page.

There is already enough material (2)

Hentes (2461350) | more than 2 years ago | (#39564895)

With the media coverage the protests will hardly get forgotten. Let's leave history to the historians of the future, they will be the ones to know what events were important to worth mentioning.

Re:There is already enough material (1)

ClintJCL (264898) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565115)

And how does less history archived help future historians figure out what is important? In order to figure out if something is important, it has to be preserved in the first place. Oh, you mean you just want the history that the victors right, not the actual histyr.

Re:There is already enough material (4, Informative)

anonicon (215837) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565219)

Technically, you're correct. However, the coverage the protests received from Big Media are also copyrighted to Big Media, which puts it outside the financial range of individuals who want to use that coverage without paying for very expensive per-item licensing fees.

For example, I'm personally aware that the University of Kentucky archives contacted CBS to get a 6 minute video clip of their basketball team in action from 1998 to include within a larger documentary about UK's sports history. CBS said it would cost about $10,000 for that one clip. The story's the same for other copyrighted history like the 1979 Who tragedy in Cincinnati, Martin Luther King's "I Have a Dream" speech, and countless other historical events.

The NYU archivists know this, and it's why they can't count on Big Media - they have to do it themselves.

Re:There is already enough material (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39565983)

I think they're just trying to ensure their legacy will not be symbolized by a protester pooping on a police car (and I include the archivists with the protestors, because who else would be stupid enough to believe they were actually making history). Why would the archivists have the protestors vote on which images to include? You're an archivist, archive it all!

First non-assholey post! (0)

ClintJCL (264898) | more than 2 years ago | (#39564897)

Wow. Buncha assholes here.

Re:First non-assholey post! (2)

DC2088 (2343764) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565017)

Any surprise that the troll posts are mostly AC? Nope.

Re:First non-assholey post! (1, Insightful)

ClintJCL (264898) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565061)

they really out-did themselves here, though; usually you can tell the difference between the fox news audience and the slashdot audience.

Re:First non-assholey post! (-1, Troll)

CubicleZombie (2590497) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565117)

You're an asshole.

Yes, Let's Record All the Rapes and Assaults (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39565013)

Yes, let's record everything about the Occupy movement [verumserum.com] so the future can judge it:

Arson

        Occupy Fort Collins – Member arrested, $10 million in damage
        Occupy Portland - Member arrested for throwing Molotov Cocktail
        Occupy Seattle – Suspicious fire at Bank of America 2.7 miles from camp
        Occupy Portland – Three men arrested with homemade grenades

Assault/Threats

        Occupy SF – 12 assaults in 24 hours
        Occupy LA – 4 assaults including two with knives
        Occupy Philly – Man punches woman in the face
        Occupy LA – Two assaults including setting someone on fire
        Occupy Berkeley – Police respond to three assault calls per night
        Occupy Wall Street – Three men threaten the life of a sexual assault victim
        Occupy Lawrence – Punch thrown
        Occupy Orlando – Knife fight sends man to hospital
        Occupy Portland – Multiple assaults within a 24 hr. period
        Occupy Toledo – Man assaults police officer after arrest
        Occupy San Diego – Woman assaults cameraman
        Occupy Victoria – Man dumps urine on city worker
        Occupy Vancouver – Two police officers bitten during near riot
        Occupy Oakland – Death threats
        Occupy Austin – Man in Joker make-up arrested for brandishing knife
        Occupy Oakland – Man sets his dog on reporter
        Occupy Oakland – Man pulls a knife in camp
        Occupy Wall Street – Photographer assaulted

Drugs/Dealing

        Occupy Boston – Two drug busts in a week
        Occupy Boston – Another drug arrest
        Occupy Boston – Heroin dealers busted were living with 6 year old boy directly behind welcome tent
        Occupy Portland – First hand account “Drugs. SellingHeroin. Meth.”
        Occupy Portland – Video of open drug use in the camp
        Occupy Portland – “I get high“

Fraud

        National Lawyer’s Guild member Ari Douglas pretends to be run over by a police scooter

Illness/Death

        Occupy Santa Cruz – Ringworm outbreak
        Occupy Atlanta – TB outbreak
        Occupy Wall Street – Zuccotti lung outbreak
        Occupy New Orleans – Man discovered in tent had been dead 2 days
        Occupy Portland – Body lice outbreak

Murder

        Occupy Oakland – Fatal shooting

Public disturbance

        Occupy Dallas – Protesters block bank entrance, 23 arrested
        Occupy Vancouver – Mob with bullhorn enters bank
        Occupy Wall Street – Protesters block bank entrance, four arrested
        Occupier takes a bathroom break in the street
        Occupy Vancouver – Occupiers disrupt debate, threaten riot when asked to leave
        Occupy Long Beach – Group disrupts city council meeting
        Occupy Boston – Three arrested for occupying Burger King
        Occupy Oakland – Yelling and nonsense at Burger King
        Occupy DC – Group storms AFP event, traps attendees inside

Rape/Sexual Assault

        Occupy Philly – Man arrested for alleged rape
        Occupy Wall Street – Two sexual assaults unreported to police
        Occupy Wall Street – Man arrested for sexual assault, suspect in rape
        Occupy Dallas – Sex offender allegedly rapes 14 year old
        Occupy Ottawa – Sexual assaults go unreported to police
        Occupy Lawrence – Sexual assault reported
        Occupy Toronto – Foot sniffer arrested
        Occupy Seattle – Man exposes himself to young girls
        Occupy Portland – Sexual assault
        Occupy Wall Street – Drunk gropes women in Zuccotti Park
        Occupy Cleveland – Rape reported after an overnight stay
        Occupy Glasgow – Possible gang rape
        Occupy Baltimore – Multiple reports of harassment
        Occupy Chicago – Man arrested for child porn
        Occupy LA – Man charged with exposing himself to a child

Sedition

        Occupy DC – Let’s have a coup by taking over the military
        Ted Rall wants occupiers to choose the path of violence
        Occupy DC – Mike Malloy incites crowd to cheer for President Bush’s execution

Suicide/Overdose

        Occupy Burlington – Man kills himself with handgun
        Occupy Salt Lake City – Man found dead with syringe in his tent
        Occupy Vancouver – Young woman dies of cocaine and heroine overdose
        Occupy OKC – Young man with history of drug abuse found dead

Theft

        Occupy Portland – Theft is ongoing
        Occupy Boston – Store owner suffers 4 break-ins since camp began

Vandalism

        Occupy Eureka – Protesters use local bank as a toilet
        Occupy Portland – Two banks vandalized, promises of more to come
        Occupy Oakland – Bank windows broken, Whole Foods vandalized, broken windows
        Occupy Boston – Banks vandalized with anarchist, OWS graffiti
        Occupy Portland – Spike in vandalism near camp
        Occupy SF: ATMs being smeared with feces
        Occupy Santa Fe: Banks vandalized with OWS-themed graffiti
        Occupy San Diego – Vendors cart vandalized with bodily fluids
        Occupy graffiti found on PA governor’s mansion

Sockpuppet AC Agent Provacateur? (0, Flamebait)

EnergyScholar (801915) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565405)

I call AC sock puppet on you.

Wikipedia definition of Agent Provacateur [wikipedia.org]

I think Slashdot needs a new tag, something to demarcate probable sock puppet post. Extra points for the name and address of the real poster.

Re:Sockpuppet AC Agent Provacateur? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39565545)

Extra points for the name and address of the real poster.

So you can do what? Silence their voice? Try being lest fascist, scumbag.

Re:Sockpuppet AC Agent Provacateur? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39565939)

Hahaha oh wow. The occutards show their true colours.

Re:Sockpuppet AC Agent Provacateur? (2)

ZFox (860519) | more than 2 years ago | (#39566117)

I call your

Wikipedia definition of Agent Provacateur

and raise you one Wikipedia definition of jackass [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Yes, Let's Record All the Rapes and Assaults (1)

Digital Vomit (891734) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565787)

Good god, you people are scared out of your wits.

Re:Yes, Let's Record All the Rapes and Assaults (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39565817)

Tea Party: Supreme Court says that it is OK for police to strip search anyone heading to jail, regardless of the level of their accusations, legitimacy of the accusations, etc.

Re:Yes, Let's Record All the Rapes and Assaults (0)

Dr Herbert West (1357769) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565853)

VerumSerum is a right-wing mouthpiece. Doesn't necessarily mean the stats are wrong/misleading...
I'm just sayin'.

Re:Yes, Let's Record All the Rapes and Assaults (1)

Rasperin (1034758) | more than 2 years ago | (#39566557)

And you'd think with the amount of people here they would actually be able to effect change. These are the people who can, we are the people who cannot and hide behind our very flawed system. I personally admire these people, even for the issues that the few have caused the many. Large groups of people make easy targets...

Re:Yes, Let's Record All the Rapes and Assaults (2)

gstrickler (920733) | more than 2 years ago | (#39566781)

And that's just what the police did. What about the protesters?

Re: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39567669)

Looks pretty peaceful when you consider the size and how many people are involved. I am happy they have kept it going so long, successfully!

Rapes and assaults are much more common in the Iraq/Afghanistan/Pakistan/Iran war, despite the fact no one is able to archive it. All we have there is a bunch of bodies on ice, with toe tags to try and understand what happened. Your outlook depends on what you focus on. If you want to spread domestic fear, you create posts like this list of protest problems. However, that makes the poster a domestic terrorist, guilty of psychological warfare... a common occurrence.

Re:Yes, Let's Record All the Rapes and Assaults (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39567973)

...and?

Re:Yes, Let's Record All the Rapes and Assaults (1)

Ragica (552891) | more than 2 years ago | (#39568281)

Hide ya kids! Hide ya wife! And hide ya husband 'cause they're rapin' everybody out here!

(Seriously, is this the best you can do?)

Tons of ephmemeria (4, Informative)

Animats (122034) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565075)

Organizing that stuff is hard work. Work continues getting 1960s protest info cataloged. Stanford had a group trying to organize Martin Luther King's stuff. That took years. Then they got the archives of the Black Panther Party, and are now grinding through that. The archives of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) are at Kent State.

Much of the plder stuff is too variable for fast scanning. Somebody has to put posters, handouts, and brochures through a flatbed, slowly. The fast book scanners need more structure.

Silly (1, Interesting)

bonch (38532) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565087)

Doesn't it come off as a bit silly? The protests were hardly that historic or even effective. No change occurred in the world as a result of them. There are certain people in the world who are bored with their daily lives and need to feel like they are part of a revolutionary movement. I was amused when I saw the issue of Time magazine that intentionally printed photos of the protests in black-and-white to hearken to the Vietnam protests. In other words, the protest were typical of most of the so-called movements in the world today--cynical, self-aware, and more of an outlet to vent rather than a positive force for change.

Soo.... (0)

englishknnigits (1568303) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565183)

what actually did happen? I mean, besides hippies smoking pot in a public park instead of...wherever hippies normally smoke pot. I guess some people with iPhones and iPads got to sit in a public park with hippies instead of a coffee shop...protesting people with money...I still don't know if I would consider that worth noting...

Re:Soo.... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39565759)

By direct actions of occupy in Oakland CA,

People have kept their homes from going to auction.

Countless meals have been served to the community.

What has your movement done ?

Hundreds of millions of dollars of Police state has been on display, more so than at any other demonstration, ever. We documented that. All day and all night.

What has your movement done again ?

When the Marine shouted down the police state, occupy documented that.

When the acoustic weapons, rubber bullets, flash bang grenades, tear gas, and pepper spray were used , Occupy documented it.

When Police stopped wearing any ID, Occupy documented it.

When students were beaten like baby seals at UC Berkeley, Occupy documented that too.

Why have you no interest in what your country has become ? It truly is eye opening what has happened during occupy, and the official version will be sanitized.

Re:Soo.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39566133)

So you went and acted like assholes for a few weeks then claimed police brutality when you got what you deserved. Great movement. What an eye opener.

Re:Soo.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39566675)

"So you went and acted like assholes for a few weeks then claimed police brutality when you got what you deserved. Great movement. What an eye opener."

Funny how you lack the balls to attach your name and / or address to your
fascist bullshit, you sorry fascist piece of trash.

Re:Soo.... (1)

viperidaenz (2515578) | more than 2 years ago | (#39567605)

When the women were raped in the occupy camps, Occupy denied it.

Re:Soo.... (1)

englishknnigits (1568303) | more than 2 years ago | (#39567935)

My movement (Ron Paul Revolution) has elected officials to actual elected offices where they can actually change some things. My movement has actually proposed concrete plans of how to change our country for the better and is working to bring them to fruition. Members of my movement have still gone to work and directly contributed to society and the welfare of others instead of selfishly sitting in a park waving signs and smoking pot. I don't really see anything in your list worthy of historic note. Sure, feeding hungry and needy people is a good thing and I applaud that but that happens every day in pretty much every city in this country. People squatting, destroying property, and littering then refusing to leave and forcing police action is also nothing worth writing down. My movement has done plenty. Your movement has just been a drain on our society.

Isn't it all the information public now? (3, Insightful)

Rastl (955935) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565309)

The Occupy events were held on public property where there's no reasonable expectation of privacy. They uploaded information about the events to public websites. They handed out materials to the general public. There was far too much media coverage. Why should they get ANY say in what's retained in a permanent record? They already made it themselves.

data collection (2)

ThorGod (456163) | more than 2 years ago | (#39565311)

As someone who's tried to locate data before, I wish them all the luck in the world.

I know this is the internet, so UFOs carry aliens, we never actually landed on the moon, and I'll be trolled for saying this...But, we've never had the modern day's archival abilities before. I'm glad to hear someone's attempting to put it to good use.

Why Ask Them To Vote On What To Archive? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39565523)

Just a quick observation - why even bother asking what to archive and what to discard?

If there is any real interest in maintaining a true historic record then by all means archive everything - including not just the wonder photo-op stuff but also the pooping-on-cop-cars stuff as well. Asking people to vote on how they want to be remembered by future generations will only wind up preserving images that the "protestors" find self-serving and paint a picture of complete harmony. That is, assuming that this whole OWS thing isn't completely forgotten as anything more than a joke in a few years - sorry, but they're not in the same league as their '60s foregenderneutralpersons and the SEIU can't afford to fill up these protests with on-the-clock people forever you know.

For every picture of a spoiled suburban art-major college student with $5000 worth of telecommunications and computing gear holding up a sign in solidarity with their brethren, they should include photos of the mounds of garbage left behind or maybe the school children in NYC who were verbally assaulted and scared to go into their own playground.

For every video of an aged hippie wearing native garb and organizing a chant, there should be a video of an addle-pated social organizer trying to explain to the NYC city council why they are owed $5000 for drum-circle upgrades.

For every soundclip of inspiring songs about soy cakes, harmony and "sticking it to the man" there should be equal amounts of the outright sedition, calls to violence, and general vulgarity.

If these "historians", librarians, and archivists are worth anything even remotely approaching their titles, then *all* data should be preserved and not put to a vote for popularity. Fair is fair after all.

Re:Why Ask Them To Vote On What To Archive? (4, Insightful)

Noren (605012) | more than 2 years ago | (#39567043)

sorry, but they're not in the same league as their '60s foregenderneutralpersons

I have to call bullshit here... but I'm not saying that as a defense of the current movement, but rather I'm objecting to your idealization of the 60's. All too many baby boomers seem to have a fuzzy, romanticized version of what happened in the 60's.

There was no shortage of bad actors mixed in with more idealistic folks then, just as is the case today. We have, with varying degrees of success, already sugar coated a lot of 60's history. All of the negative aspects you point out in the current movement have analogous issues in the 60's movement.

Of course, there were a lot of good things that happened as a result of the counterculture movements of the 60's. If we pretend there were no such negative aspects to these movements, and then use this optimistic but false dream of the past to condemn modern movements via a flawed comparison to an idealized version of the 60s that never actually existed... then it seems we have missed the entire point of these counterculture movements.

The difference is they knew what they wanted (1, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 2 years ago | (#39567729)

By and large, the big civil rights movements and protests, like those in the 60s, had defined goals and real, reasonable demands.

Like, say, the civil rights movement of Dr. King. They could clearly articulate their grievance: Blacks are treated differently than whites because of the colour of their skin. They also could say what they wanted: Equal protection under the law.

Same shit with Vietnam war protests. They wanted the war to stop. Some may not have had good reasons for it (though most did) but they could articulate what they wanted.

That is what makes the Occupy crowd such a bunch of wankers. They can't even say what the fuck the problem is or what they want. They just whine about "the 1%," or corporations, and so on. They can't say what problem they want solved and what the solution is they want. All I've ever been able to dig up is an "unofficial" list on their site which includes a whole shit ton of stuff that spans the gamut and will never happen (like banning private gun ownership, stopping all foreclosures, eliminating the federal reserve, and so on). The other was a Mad Magazine looking chart of all sorts of random words and connections that told you absolutely nothing, mostly on account of it being incomprehensible.

THAT is the difference. If you ever hope to sway people, you have to have a message, a goal, an ideal. You can't just come out and say "We are mad about shit and we don't know what!"

Re:The difference is they knew what they wanted (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39567857)

Ah didn't see this until after I'd posted. You have succinctly stated what I was trying to get at regarding the difference between OWS and "The '60s Protests". Well articulated.

Re:Why Ask Them To Vote On What To Archive? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39567797)

My point was primarily aimed at the "historian"/archivists. It seems disingenuous to me, at the very least, to ask the OWS people involved to vote on what should be retained in the record or not. That is *not* what archiving the events means - and would certainly lead to a idealized/sugar-coated version of the events. While I am fully aware that "historians" will slant and bias their interpretations of the past, in these wonderful times of electronic records and media we should not be storing filtered raw events as "history" unless those doing the archiving are willing to record *all* of the information. Good and bad.

Actually, I was not approaching it from the "idealized '60s" angle at all, and I agree 100% with the assessment of good/bad actors during those times. I meant in the "scope" and "lasting impact" departments mostly - the boomers involved in the '60s protests at least had some semblance of a coordinated/agreed-upon direction to go in, vast numbers of supporters (relatively speaking), and certainly had some lasting cultural impact (as you have pointed out yourself). There's been some lasting impact for all of its romanticized worth for sure. Heck, some of the people involved in those counter-culture movements certainly were involved in the fomentation of OWS, it is a very-much manufactured event, and the playbook hasn't changed since then. {Side note: Drum-circles and lack of any coherent message do *not* work as effectively on the "non-believers" as the protestors may be led to believe.} I don't see the same scope, coherent message, and/or cultural impact emanating from OWS quite frankly - they are literally not on the same playing field as the '60s protestors were and I doubt that beyond some jokes being made their impression will go much further than 2012 except for some college curriculum in Poli-Sci 101.

The bottom line is that I don't think that the record should be "voted" on in order to determine what gets retained and what doesn't or we may wind up with the protestors of 2040 having the same kind of idealized vision of OWS that boomers have of the '60s.

I don't even want to get on the subject of what a colossal waste of storage space, time, effort, and money that "archiving" this stuff beyond what the Internet itself will retain I consider the whole effort to be.

OWS Protesters (-1, Flamebait)

rhook (943951) | more than 2 years ago | (#39566095)

Get over your entitlement complex and you might find yourselves motivated to find a job. Just because someone makes a lot of money does not mean they owe anything to you.

Meta-post about social tensions evident on posts (4, Insightful)

EnergyScholar (801915) | more than 2 years ago | (#39566415)

Most are unaware of it, but the social tension evidenced in this conversation comes from changing living conditions. The world is full. Further economic growth is neither possible nor desirable.

A growing economic pie allowed large disparity in income. A shrinking economic pie directs people's attention back to large income disparities.

Most OWS and Tea Party (they may distrust and fear each other, but they have more in common than either will admit) real grassroots sympathizers & supporters know there's something going on that they don't like, but they're not sure what to do about it. Last year a wave of popular revolutions swept the Arab world, driven by the same feeling. Liberals and Conservatives use different words to describe seemingly different things, but the origin of their discontent comes from the end of growth. This impending paradigm shift is at the origin of the social conflict played out on this page.

It is foolish of people to focus on redistributing wealth, scapegoat, bicker, or wage war, when the entire edifice is in peril. Yet it is in our nature to behave so in the face of a bottleneck predicament. Know Thyself [jayhanson.us]

Re:OWS Protesters (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39567893)

FYI, many OWS folks do have jobs and drop by after work.

Easy fix (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39566457)

Just buy lots of Che Guevera T-shirts and posters from the protesters. They can use the extra money to get high and stuff. Whatever you do though, I mean really, never do this--never expose the irony of them engaging in free market capitalism to support communism. It'll totally piss them off. You'll get a combined buzzkill/revolutionary rage look that's really rather unique. Denial so thick you can cut it with a knife. Really, it's the same denial you get when you explain that Marxism is fundamentally incompatible with liberty. Anyway, keep them stoned and film whatever you like.

Callout: (2)

flameproof (1460175) | more than 2 years ago | (#39566595)

I call Trollfat on this article.

its simple (1)

viperidaenz (2515578) | more than 2 years ago | (#39567571)

A bunch of people started a protest, thousands more aimlessly followed and diluted the effect, branding the movement as a bunch of unemployed hippys who have no idea what they're protesting..

Wear a mask and get recorded (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39568035)

Sure, technology might "win". so put a fake nose on, or wear a helmet. buy a voice alteration device. but archives are ALWAYS good. If you want to be an anonymous participant, the events should still be archived. Police brutality, physical or sexual assaults, etc need to be captured. Shy away from cameras, but do not impose their banning. If you see someone as camera shy as you doing anything immoral, but are wearing a mask, do your part. A cop covering their badge while macing pregnant women? take the beatdown. expose his badge. But if you get violent, or do anything immoral, welcome to your own "anarchism". be prepared to be unmasked and recorded.

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